Will the deal really rid us of JF

Just read my copy of the shareholders circular which arrived in the post yesterday.
Precisely expressed a newly incorporated shell company with £2 share capiital 1878 Partners Ltd will contract to by JF shares for £975000 and will
Guarantee that JF,s £1.5m loans will be repaid over three years.
Crucial point is that is 1878 and not JS and AP who guarantee to repay JF loans .
So JS and AP are committed to put up initial £975k share purchase funds which they will no doubt do by injecting that into 1878 by way of a loan but there is no stated commitment that they will put funds into 1878 to repay JF loans.
It would would appear to me that if things don’t go well that based on the information in the circular JS and AP have no obligation to put 1878 in funds to repay JF loans and could walk away if they don’t fancy putting up further funds. JF could sue 1878 for repayment of loans but if its only asset is the 41% shareholding then all he would get is the 41% shareholding back
So at that point JF loan is unpaid he is the major creditor or whatever phrase he calls it and is back in effective control.
It would have provided me with a lot more confidence if JS and AP had guaranteed to repay JF loans (if 1878 where unable) and then their commitment would have been clear.
Let’s hope the Dembele transfer proceeds make this academic .

Yes.

Quoted from HerveJosse

Just read my copy of the shareholders circular which arrived in the post yesterday.
Precisely expressed a newly incorporated shell company with £2 share capiital 1878 Partners Ltd will contract to by JF shares for £975000 and will
Guarantee that JF,s £1.5m loans will be repaid over three years.
Crucial point is that is 1878 and not JS and AP who guarantee to repay JF loans .
So JS and AP are committed to put up initial £975k share purchase funds which they will no doubt do by injecting that into 1878 by way of a loan but there is no stated commitment that they will put funds into 1878 to repay JF loans.
It would would appear to me that if things don’t go well that based on the information in the circular JS and AP have no obligation to put 1878 in funds to repay JF loans and could walk away if they don’t fancy putting up further funds. JF could sue 1878 for repayment of loans but if its only asset is the 41% shareholding then all he would get is the 41% shareholding back
So at that point JF loan is unpaid he is the major creditor or whatever phrase he calls it and is back in effective control.
It would have provided me with a lot more confidence if JS and AP had guaranteed to repay JF loans (if 1878 where unable) and then their commitment would have been clear.
Let’s hope the Dembele transfer proceeds make this academic .

1. There will not be any Dembele money

2. Would you sooner the club had interest payable loans from a financial institute, rather than zero interest loans.

JF will still have his sticky fingers in the club.
I still cannot believe he’s getting all his 2.5 million back for a conference team you have to question JS and AP judgement.

Quoted from Yoda

JF will still have his sticky fingers in the club.
I still cannot believe he’s getting all his 2.5 million back for a conference team you have to question JS and AP judgement.

Here we go. Questioning the new Messiahs already

Fillipe .
In answer to your question yes I would if the provider of the zero interest loans is JF.

Quoted from Fillipe Noche

Here we go. Questioning the new Messiahs already

Oh come on Fillipe, anyone who has been on here more than five minutes knows Yoda just stirs things up for the sake of it...

So the club has to pay Fenty back half a million a season before we start.
Our budget is crap as it is.
With less fans in the stadium how can we do that our last full season we generated less than 1 million in hate receipts.

Quoted from Fillipe Noche

Here we go. Questioning the new Messiahs already

Don't get too excited. The new men have about 15 years worth of credit in the bank, one scratched car to moan about, innumerable incomprehensive statements to make, one childs flag to snap, several ludicrous appearances on fans forums impersonating John Shuttleworth to attend and some dodgy business dealings to broker, and the word"BENIGN" to shout endlessly before we start moaning.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Don't get too excited. The new men have about 15 years worth of credit in the bank, one scratched car to moan about, innumerable incomprehensive statements to make, one childs flag to snap, several ludicrous appearances on fans forums impersonating John Shuttleworth to attend and some dodgy business dealings to broker, and the word"BENIGN" to shout endlessly before we start moaning.

I had to chuckle when Stockwood used the word custodian the other day!

Taken from the Mariners Trust newsletter,  I think this answers the origional question;

What happens next if the resolution is agreed at the EGM?

  Once agreed 1878 Partners Ltd will immediately buy John Fenty’s shares and following that they will join the board with John stepping down at the same time. Jason will appointed Chairman for a fixed 3 year term.



You can see the circular to the

The unanswered questions are how the loans will get paid; where the money for that will come from; and until it is paid off what hold has Fenty got over the club with him being the major debtor?

I’d be much happier if the answer was the money will come from JS &AP, via 1878 and that will be either repaid over a long period of years or written off.

Quoted from HerveJosse

Just read my copy of the shareholders circular which arrived in the post yesterday.
Precisely expressed a newly incorporated shell company with £2 share capiital 1878 Partners Ltd will contract to by JF shares for £975000 and will
Guarantee that JF,s £1.5m loans will be repaid over three years.
Crucial point is that is 1878 and not JS and AP who guarantee to repay JF loans .
So JS and AP are committed to put up initial £975k share purchase funds which they will no doubt do by injecting that into 1878 by way of a loan but there is no stated commitment that they will put funds into 1878 to repay JF loans.
It would would appear to me that if things don’t go well that based on the information in the circular JS and AP have no obligation to put 1878 in funds to repay JF loans and could walk away if they don’t fancy putting up further funds. JF could sue 1878 for repayment of loans but if its only asset is the 41% shareholding then all he would get is the 41% shareholding back
So at that point JF loan is unpaid he is the major creditor or whatever phrase he calls it and is back in effective control.
It would have provided me with a lot more confidence if JS and AP had guaranteed to repay JF loans (if 1878 where unable) and then their commitment would have been clear.
Let’s hope the Dembele transfer proceeds make this academic .

From what you have said we have 'shell' company 1878 which will be funded by JS and AP to buy Fenty's shares, plus any others if they wish to. 1878 will also pay off Fenty's loans within 3 years.

Fenty's is not daft and would not agree to the sale if the 'shell' company has not got any assets. I just wonder if some deal has not been made for Fenty, or Day, to become a director of 1878 once 1878 own GTFC. In other words, a backdoor say in what happens to Town. If this, or something similar takes place, then the answer to your OP is not for 3 years.

Just a thought.

Quoted from DB

From what you have said we have 'shell' company 1878 which will be funded by JS and AP to buy Fenty's shares, plus any others if they wish to. 1878 will also pay off Fenty's loans within 3 years.

Fenty's is not daft and would not agree to the sale if the 'shell' company has not got any assets. I just wonder if some deal has not been made for Fenty, or Day, to become a director of 1878 once 1878 own GTFC. In other words, a backdoor say in what happens to Town. If this, or something similar takes place, then the answer to your OP is not for 3 years.

Just a thought.

Stockwood and Pettit aren't stupid, they won't entertain that twit having anything to do with 1878 either.

Quoted from jamesgtfc

Stockwood and Pettit aren't stupid, they won't entertain that twit having anything to do with 1878 either.

I agree with you but neither is Fenty. He's not going to leave £1.5 million behind in the hope of it being paid off with having some control somewhere to protect his interest.

JF has his control. If 1878 fails to repay his loan having given a guarantee he sues it wins recovers its only asset his original 41% percent shareholding and we are back to square one..Loans are sill outstanding and he is the largest shareholder.

Fenty pretty much said this before he will not leave his money behind with no say.
So we are stuck with Fenty the consortium should of paid off fenty and either write it off or take payment back over 10 years.
This way the club has a half a million to pay out before a ball is kicked.

Quoted from HerveJosse

JF has his control. If 1878 fails to repay his loan having given a guarantee he sues it wins recovers its only asset his original 41% percent shareholding and we are back to square one..Loans are sill outstanding and he is the largest shareholder.

So what you are saying is that JF has indirect control over the club if his loans are not repaid in accordance with his wishes/contractual agreement, and the answer to your OP is 3 years if all goes well.

Please read my earlier post, from the Trust news letter.

In it there is a clear answer from the trust, two of whom sit on the board, and have been in contact with the consortium throughout discussions.

This is the bit that should clear up, once and for all, what it is you want to know about what is going to happen to Fenty and his shares.

["Once agreed 1878 Partners Ltd will immediately buy John Fenty’s shares and following that they will join the board with John stepping down at the same time. Jason will appointed Chairman for a fixed 3 year term."


Is it not clear enough for you?

Quoted from DB

So what you are saying is that JF has indirect control over the club if his loans are not repaid in accordance with his wishes/contractual agreement, and the answer to your OP is 3 years if all goes well.

Yes that’s my interpretation based on the details of the transaction disclosed in the shareholders circular.

Quoted from mimma

Please read my earlier post, from the Trust news letter.

In it there is a clear answer from the trust, two of whom sit on the board, and have been in contact with the consortium throughout discussions.

This is the bit that should clear up, once and for all, what it is you want to know about what is going to happen to Fenty and his shares.

["Once agreed 1878 Partners Ltd will immediately buy John Fenty’s shares and following that they will join the board with John stepping down at the same time. Jason will appointed Chairman for a fixed 3 year term."



Is it not clear enough for you?

Perfectly clear but the continuation of that situation is effectivelydependent on the contractual obligations to repay JF loans being met .
As an aside the first of the repayments is not now until 31 Dec 21 iso full repayment is 31 Dec 23

As it states, 178 Partners Ltd will immediately buy Fenty's shares, and they then take over, and Fenty steps down. No mention of loans, straight forward transaction to buy the shares.

Stop looking for something that isn't there.

Quoted from DB

So what you are saying is that JF has indirect control over the club if his loans are not repaid in accordance with his wishes/contractual agreement, and the answer to your OP is 3 years if all goes well.

1878 Partners is guaranteeing the loans to JF. So he has no control, however I'm sure there are terms that dictate how debts should be serviced to ensure they can't avoid paying those debts. Ultimately, 1878 or GTFC could not have the funds to repay the loans when they are due, however that would mean JS and AP have stumped up nearly a million to end up back at square one. They also state investment in the training facilities will be coming in the short term and I think they're gearing up for 100% ownership with what's happening.

Unless they have an absolutely torrid time in the first couple of years, I can't see how the debts don't get paid. JS and AP seem to be working in the best interest of the club and I think they will ultimately underwrite the loans if required.

Quoted from mimma

Please read my earlier post, from the Trust news letter.

In it there is a clear answer from the trust, two of whom sit on the board, and have been in contact with the consortium throughout discussions.

This is the bit that should clear up, once and for all, what it is you want to know about what is going to happen to Fenty and his shares.

["Once agreed 1878 Partners Ltd will immediately buy John Fenty’s shares and following that they will join the board with John stepping down at the same time. Jason will appointed Chairman for a fixed 3 year term."


Is it not clear enough for you?

We all know what that says. But you have ignored the discussion in the previous posts about Fenty’s loans and what that might mean for his on-going involvement in the club.

Quoted from pen penfras

1878 Partners is guaranteeing the loans to JF. So he has no control, however I'm sure there are terms that dictate how debts should be serviced to ensure they can't avoid paying those debts. Ultimately, 1878 or GTFC could not have the funds to repay the loans when they are due, however that would mean JS and AP have stumped up nearly a million to end up back at square one. They also state investment in the training facilities will be coming in the short term and I think they're gearing up for 100% ownership with what's happening.

Unless they have an absolutely torrid time in the first couple of years, I can't see how the debts don't get paid. JS and AP seem to be working in the best interest of the club and I think they will ultimately underwrite the loans if required.

Where does it say all that PP?

I think you're all missing something here - Stockwood is a real fan, he knows what's gone on and what's going on. Therefore, I think it's safe to assume that he knows that ongoing involvement from the Principal Funder would be about as popular as a fart in a spacesuit with the supporters.

He also wants the fans on his side (he needs the fans on his side) as the club will need the income and the team getting the right sort of support as we transition through the next phase.

I suspect that he knows the Principal Funder's involvement would make his job a lot harder from Day 1.

I also suspect that the Principal Funder will have been offered a Vice President role (meaningless and powerless) or a seat for life to keep him sweet. You may not agree with that bit would be a sensible thing to do to keep the deal moving, keep Fenty sweet and stop him being a difficult presence always chipping away at the sidelines.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Where does it say all that PP?

1878 Partners is guaranteeing the loans to JF. - this was mentioned in something released in the last week or so, can't remember where

I'm sure there are terms that dictate how debts should be serviced to ensure they can't avoid paying those debts. - My summation, but no way anybody has money due and allows it all to be spent to avoid the debts being repaid,

They also state investment in the training facilities will be coming in the short term - This is in the message to shareholders statement.

I think they're gearing up for 100% ownership with what's happening - My opinion based on how this is unfolding.

Quoted from BobbyCummingsTackle

I think you're all missing something here - Stockwood is a real fan, he knows what's gone on and what's going on. Therefore, I think it's safe to assume that he knows that ongoing involvement from the Principal Funder would be about as popular as a fart in a spacesuit with the supporters.

He also wants the fans on his side (he needs the fans on his side) as the club will need the income and the team getting the right sort of support as we transition through the next phase.

I suspect that he knows the Principal Funder's involvement would make his job a lot harder from Day 1.

I also suspect that the Principal Funder will have been offered a Vice President role (meaningless and powerless) or a seat for life to keep him sweet. You may not agree with that bit would be a sensible thing to do to keep the deal moving, keep Fenty sweet and stop him being a difficult presence always chipping away at the sidelines.

Would be crazy to offer fenty any position on the board meaningless or not . Get rid of him once and for all and ban him from bp

Quoted from dapperz fun pub

Would be crazy to offer fenty any position on the board meaningless or not . Get rid of him once and for all and ban him from bp

Seen a few comments like this. Is this what people would want? Like seriously? I’m glad to see him detached from any involved in the club as much as anyone but I’d never want to stop him watching the club he’s supported as a kid, as a paying fan like the rest of us.

Quoted from jimgtfc

Seen a few comments like this. Is this what people would want? Like seriously?

Yes.

Quoted from BobbyCummingsTackle

I think you're all missing something here - Stockwood is a real fan, he knows what's gone on and what's going on. Therefore, I think it's safe to assume that he knows that ongoing involvement from the Principal Funder would be about as popular as a fart in a spacesuit with the supporters.

He also wants the fans on his side (he needs the fans on his side) as the club will need the income and the team getting the right sort of support as we transition through the next phase.

I suspect that he knows the Principal Funder's involvement would make his job a lot harder from Day 1.

I also suspect that the Principal Funder will have been offered a Vice President role (meaningless and powerless) or a seat for life to keep him sweet. You may not agree with that bit would be a sensible thing to do to keep the deal moving, keep Fenty sweet and stop him being a difficult presence always chipping away at the sidelines.

Yes but a lot of us, me included, believed JSF when he said he was a "real fan". Don't get me wrong, I think the new "Dynamic Duo" will be good for the club and nothing like JSF but I like words to be followed by deeds. Only time will tell. It could transpire that other local businessmen and investors, who wouldn't work with JSF, might want to be involved in GTFC now that he is going.

The alternative to all of this is to vote AGAINST the takeover on May 5th.

Quoted from jimgtfc

Seen a few comments like this. Is this what people would want? Like seriously? I’m glad to see him detached from any involved in the club as much as anyone but I’d never want to stop him watching the club he’s supported as a kid, as a paying fan like the rest of us.

Can’t speak for everyone but most people I know like me want fenty never to set foot  in bp ever again , I can’t forgive him for what’s he’s done to my club nearly twenty years of dross and embarrassment

Quoted from malkamalka

The alternative to all of this is to vote AGAINST the takeover on May 5th.

Why would we do that? We want the takeover to happen don't we. We want Fenty out

Quoted from jimgtfc

Seen a few comments like this. Is this what people would want? Like seriously? I’m glad to see him detached from any involved in the club as much as anyone but I’d never want to stop him watching the club he’s supported as a kid, as a paying fan like the rest of us.

I wonder if Fenty will be surprised at just how much it costs to watch Town in the 21st century....

Isn't the point of the 1878 partnership to buy the shares and JF to resign as a director. Everything else is pure speculation and the partnership will look to determine how they will repay their loans as any company would. This could be via "normal" business finance of obtaining other loans, issuing of additional shares for purchase etc. who knows and this is normal business for such companies to finance themselves as the businessmen that they are.

They have had to give proof of being able to sustain the club for a future period which I suspect is longer than the 3 years it would take to pay the O/S loans. If they were not able to do so then the bid would have been blocked. Lets give them the benefit of their business knowledge which is undoubtedly more than a lot of us (mine is experience of playing monopoly).

As previously stated if you are not happy with the deal and you are a shareholder vote against it but then don't complain when JF remains as the "principal funder". I know which way I am voting !

Quoted from pen penfras

Ultimately, 1878 or GTFC could not have the funds to repay the loans when they are due,

In the quote above you have described the definition of insolvency. Insolvency = being unable to settle your debts as and when they fall due.

Any creditor can exert pressured to wind a business up if debts remain unpaid. Don’t think it will ever come to that though, if, as I questioned prior to Christmas, the consortium are in a position to financial position to support GTFC as John Fenty has over the years, as a very minimum commitment.

Just one thing though on the vote though that I am curious to understand. Assume at the EGM the vote is in favour of converting to a private limited company. That motion is then carried and implemented. But what happens then in the (unlikely) event that the deal with Stockwood and Petit falls over again, like it did with Shutes?

Does it then mean the business becomes a private limited company still with John at the helm?

Timing is essential in completing transactions like these

Quoted from dapperz fun pub

Can’t speak for everyone but most people I know like me want fenty never to set foot  in bp ever again , I can’t forgive him for what’s he’s done to my club nearly twenty years of dross and embarrassment

I get this completely but that's not Stockwood's style. He talks about working together, shared visions etc.

I am not having a go at you with this either - banning and 'never set foot in BP again' is petty, bitter and lacks class. It would reflect better on the new owners if they said 'JF is welcome at the club any time' knowing full well that we would make any visit to BP a miserable experience for him (although I suspect that he's so thick skinned that he wouldn't care).

Someone also said why should JF still be on the board after I suggested he might become vice pres - a vice pres position is not a board position, it's an honorary position with no voice on the board and no voting rights.

DO NOT see any of this as me being pro the Principal Funder.

I too think that banning him is not an answer. The point is to get the consortium to buy his shares and he is no longer able to exert influence. If the consortium cannot pay the loans JF will not have an automatic way back into the club as the ltd company would go into receivership or administration and he would be listed as a creditor. Generally creditors do not get all the amount owed back only a certain percentage and the administrators would be running the club not JF.

Lets get those votes submitted and get to where a significant proportion of fans (including me) want to be i.e. JF not involved as a director and the club looking to invest in the club, involve the fans and improve the team. If JF wants to turn up and pay for a ticket we cannot stop him unless he is banned under the FA/EFL rules of being convicted of hooliganism etc. (although the breaking of the Newport kid's flag in the play off semi-final may have been classed as such).

It depends mrbump. Currently Fenty’s loans are secured against the assets of the company, so if the club defaults he gets BP. Wonder if the contract between him and 1878 covers this.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

It depends mrbump. Currently Fenty’s loans are secured against the assets of the company, so if the club defaults he gets BP. Wonder if the contract between him and 1878 covers this.

I think we are worrying too much. If Mr Kapikanya was a director of 1878 these concerns would be very valid but the business reputations of both men give me no reason for concern.

I'm sure the contract has been negotiated by both sets of legal teams to something that is mutually agreeable.

Quoted from jamesgtfc

I think we are worrying too much. If Mr Kapikanya was a director of 1878 these concerns would be very valid but the business reputations of both men give me no reason for concern.

I'm sure the contract has been negotiated by both sets of legal teams to something that is mutually agreeable.

You’re probably right. But just as we expect our leaders to do due diligence, I would want to do the same. And what may be mutually agreeable to the principals in the deal, that doesn’t mean it suits the interests of other stakeholders, ie fans and other shareholders.

Quoted from FishOutOfWater

I wonder if Fenty will be surprised at just how much it costs to watch Town in the 21st century....

My (tongue in cheek) suggestion was to those who are, for some reason, trying to undermine the potential new owners!

Quoted from Davec

Why would we do that? We want the takeover to happen don't we. We want Fenty out

Don't think he is suggesting a vote against, rather than that is the alternative to voting for it, and nobody wants that.

Quoted from malkamalka

My (tongue in cheek) suggestion was to those who are, for some reason, trying to undermine the potential new owners!

My tongue in cheek response inferred that in all likelihood it has been a long time since "Principal Funder" bought and paid for a ticket to any of our games.....

Good luck to him too trying to get through to the ticket office by phone if we have a big game coming up, with waiting times of up to an hour..... or will the new owners maybe invest in a proper ticketing system?

Quoted from BobbyCummingsTackle

I get this completely but that's not Stockwood's style. He talks about working together, shared visions etc.

I am not having a go at you with this either - banning and 'never set foot in BP again' is petty, bitter and lacks class. It would reflect better on the new owners if they said 'JF is welcome at the club any time' knowing full well that we would make any visit to BP a miserable experience for him (although I suspect that he's so thick skinned that he wouldn't care).

Someone also said why should JF still be on the board after I suggested he might become vice pres - a vice pres position is not a board position, it's an honorary position with no voice on the board and no voting rights.

DO NOT see any of this as me being pro the Principal Funder.

Good post ... just pisses me off what he’s done to us

With Fenty out of our club we can all breath again, buy our Season Tickets and at least hope for a brighter future.

What is done is done.
We can all unite and be the supporters we should be.

Give him his money and let him ride off into the sunset never to be seen again.

Thank intercourse he's gone.

UTM  

I think all everyone want to know  yes  or  no to the question   not a full blown book on what may be the answer.. Why  because folk like me just want a simple answer so we know weather or not to spend money at GTFC ,,  Because there are a lot saying  if fenty has anything at all to do with the club not one penny will go there way

Quoted from dapperz fun pub

Good post ... just pisses me off what he’s done to us

We'll get him back.....a vibrant and successful club with good owners who listen to the fans. Hopefully a new ground and a real future. It will be a huge kick in the balls to him.

At our first game in the new stadium all fans should turn towards Humberston at 3.20 and show him the finger.

Quoted from BobbyCummingsTackle

We'll get him back.....a vibrant and successful club with good owners who listen to the fans. Hopefully a new ground and a real future. It will be a huge kick in the balls to him.

At our first game in the new stadium all fans should turn towards Humberston at 3.20 and show him the finger.

Looking forward to that day Bob

Quoted from pen penfras

1878 Partners is guaranteeing the loans to JF. - this was mentioned in something released in the last week or so, can't remember where

I'm sure there are terms that dictate how debts should be serviced to ensure they can't avoid paying those debts. - My summation, but no way anybody has money due and allows it all to be spent to avoid the debts being repaid,

They also state investment in the training facilities will be coming in the short term - This is in the message to shareholders statement.

I think they're gearing up for 100% ownership with what's happening - My opinion based on how this is unfolding.

Cheers PP. Found it now. It's in the Appendix to the Notice of the General Meeting.  Part 4, the Proposed Transactions.

There isn't anything about what leverage he will have to ensure the loans are repaid. I just hope the strings aren't too tight.

Just hurry up and pish off Fenty. From the town preferably

Quoted from TAGG

With Fenty out of our club we can all breath again, buy our Season Tickets and at least hope for a brighter future.

What is done is done.
We can all unite and be the supporters we should be.

Give him his money and let him ride off into the sunset never to be seen again.

Thank intercourse he's gone.

UTM  

I just hope it's not going to be like one of those scary movies where just as you're lulled in a false sense of security, the villain comes back to cut you down again.....