Morning After

I am trying to take some positives from the match. A point is better than nothing and Macca looks like his confidence is back, must have taken a hammering under oloway. And then theirs's err, err nothing else.

Whatever Hurst said at half time changed the mood and passion of the players who came out in the 2nd half with a different attitude to the first half. A reverse of the first half. We have in Hurst our equivalent of Allardyce at West Brom. Their going down and so are we, the maths give us a chance but Fenty will do nothing. Do not forget that until his cheque is signed and cashed he still controls the club. I cannot see him sacking Hurst and as for the takeover, when ever it happens, it will be too late to save us from the NL.

The positive to take to the NL are very few, new owners, promise of a new ground. Players under contract worth hanging onto, Macca, Rose and Wright. Management worth keeping Dave Moore. The rest let the club down badly and if they couldn't keep us in the EFL they certainly will not help promotion from the NL. Yeovil and Notts Cty. went down season before last and are still struggling to get out of the NL, which is littered with ex EFL teams.

For me, and as many red crosses as you like, the buck stops with Hurst. He tactics cost 2 points at Carlisle and 2 points yesterday. His teams have played 12 and won 1, less than 10% wins. It does not bode well for the nest 14 games and to be generous 30% wins(call it 4 games) 12 points. Too little too late.

The only thing I can be optimistic about is Hurst being fired and complete new beginning from top to bottom, unfortunately in the NL.

I think we fade badly in the second half due to half our team not having the legs to see it through, the likes of Morais, Hanson , the shop , lamy and coke struggle to see out past the hour mark, ask them to play 3 games in 8 days and it becomes clear we will run out of steam quickly in second half.

All very depressing but after last night I have come to terms with our fate. What I want to see next game is Jackson play up top with Hanson for at least a half, green and Payne no where near the match day squad, neither will be here next season and it shows when they step on the pitch.

As for next season , as long as the takeover has happened we will dust ourselves down and eventually come back.  

Quoted from DB

complete new beginning from top to bottom,

The last bit sums it up perfectly for me DB. Its the love of the fans for this football club that will keep it going. Players/managers come and go as ultimately its all about money/family first which is hard to bear as fans but I think ultimately right. If your any good you will be chasing the millions like Christiano Ronaldo and Real Madrid and not playing for a now small club like ours.

The fact Hurst called it a big point gives you an insight into what that half time team talk contained.

‘Sit back lads, just don’t lose, we’re going to be the only team in history to escape a relegation battle by drawing our way out of it’

Has he gone yet?

Quoted from pontoonlew

The fact Hurst called it a big point gives you an insight into what that half time team talk contained.

‘Sit back lads, just don’t lose, we’re going to be the only team in history to escape a relegation battle by drawing our way out of it’

Twisting it. He said “ could be a big point”

He put all our attacking options on. We wanted 3 points but that doesnt suit your agenda against him

Can’t say that I feel anything other than apathy this morning.

We look like a relegation team because that’s what we are.

Quoted from Hagrid

Twisting it. He said “ could be a big point”

He put all our attacking options on. We wanted 3 points but that doesnt suit your agenda against him

At what point does not being happy with 6 points from 36 stop being an agenda?

You’re right though, I don’t like Hurst and didn’t the first time either. Maybe it is an agenda but he’s hardly doing anything to prove that wrong.

(We had 3 strikers on for 9 mins btw)

Hurst is turning things round. We've gone from being thrashed (5 - 0 loss to Tranmere earlier in the season, 3 - 0 loss to Salford), to losing by one goal, to drawing games. I agree there's a fair chance we might run out of games, but it's far from over yet.

1 shot on target against a team in even worst form than us, in complete free fall 1 shot on target in a game we needed to win and people still defend Hurst 🤯

We look like a relegated team already. We look like a team just going through the motions after the mathematical conclusion has already been reached.

I’d like to say that we look like a team fighting and busting blood vessels of effort to crawl back to mathematical safety, but we just don’t.

I like Hurst, but I’m not sure this sort of fight is his bag. I know he kept Shrewsbury up, but I recall he had a lot longer to do that and a better squad.

I think that at times like this, a club needs a massive motivator that can incite fight in every game. That kicks every ball. Someone that is animated on the touchline. I don’t see that sort of person in any of those three in the management and coaching team. If we don’t have this on the touchline then we won’t get it on the pitch. It’s all a bit tame. It’s at times like this that all of your coaching qualifications and technical stuff goes out of the window. Every minute of every game has to be played like a cup final or cup tie scrap. I’m just not seeing that sort of driving from the touchline.

We’ve got to become a horrible team to play against when we haven’t got the ball, and a combative bombarding team when we have got the ball.

Nil nil draws and losing the game by the odd goal in 1 or 2 is no good. It’s gotta be throwing players forwar and throwing the ball forward into the final third at every opportunity. We need to be going in search of 3 goals a game and scraping home with 2 goals against if we have to. Kevin Keegan style to draw a parallel. Because this tame and lame approach of unagressive football is getting us nowhere.

It’s scrap time, shock and awe time, and passion time and I don’t see we have that anywhere in the club  

The last few games shop steadied (and it was sinking without trace). Fewer goals conceded, defeats were by a single goal and somewhat unfortunate (Forest Green), now a clean sheet for the first time in a long time. Sometimes you have to take these steps before you can hit a run. If I was saying this with 6/7 to go, no good but just enough to still get a run. Whilst all around people are looking for siege mentality and go for it approach, in reality this could have lead to big defeats and definitely no where to go. In all of this Hurst has kept calm and sensible. At some point soon though the gloves will have to come off.

Quoted from Marinerdeano

The last few games shop steadied (and it was sinking without trace). Fewer goals conceded, defeats were by a single goal and somewhat unfortunate (Forest Green), now a clean sheet for the first time in a long time. Sometimes you have to take these steps before you can hit a run. If I was saying this with 6/7 to go, no good but just enough to still get a run. Whilst all around people are looking for siege mentality and go for it approach, in reality this could have lead to big defeats and definitely no where to go. In all of this Hurst has kept calm and sensible. At some point soon though the gloves will have to come off.

Stop it, you’re giving me hope

Having had a run of games against the fellow bottom dwellers around the time Hurst came in and failing to capitalise, we have just had a run of games against sides, although not all in the bottom bit of the league, were mostly sides struggling for form, and again, nothing. We can't make a dent on the points gap; in fact we are worse off now than we were.

We are about the only side in the division that haven't had any kind of run as yet and no response to a new manager and a whole slew of new players. We are a side that regularly over the last decade or so have consistently had these runs of 10, 15, 20, or 25 games where we just can't put a run of wins together. This has happened consistently under several managers and with a myriad of different players, some of whom look like they have two left feet, then miraculously go elsewhere and look like decent players.

The rot runs deep and wide and only a huge shift in the way things are done will change the situation. Unfortunately, that will have to start from non league by the look of it.

Not down yet but we are heading that way.

My worry is if we go down a lot of fans will not bother going they have got used to it now.
If Hurst is still there the ground will be empty.

Quoted from Yoda

My worry is if we go down a lot of fans will not bother going they have got used to it now.
If Hurst is still there the ground will be empty.

He can't be in charge when we go down.
He has proved how rubbish he is by building a side worst than that of Hollowhead.

If Fenty is still there then I'd walk away without any doubt.

Quoted from Fillipe Noche

We look like a relegated team already. We look like a team just going through the motions after the mathematical conclusion has already been reached.

I’d like to say that we look like a team fighting and busting blood vessels of effort to crawl back to mathematical safety, but we just don’t.

I like Hurst, but I’m not sure this sort of fight is his bag. I know he kept Shrewsbury up, but I recall he had a lot longer to do that and a better squad.

I think that at times like this, a club needs a massive motivator that can incite fight in every game. That kicks every ball. Someone that is animated on the touchline. I don’t see that sort of person in any of those three in the management and coaching team. If we don’t have this on the touchline then we won’t get it on the pitch. It’s all a bit tame. It’s at times like this that all of your coaching qualifications and technical stuff goes out of the window. Every minute of every game has to be played like a cup final or cup tie scrap. I’m just not seeing that sort of driving from the touchline.

We’ve got to become a horrible team to play against when we haven’t got the ball, and a combative bombarding team when we have got the ball.

Nil nil draws and losing the game by the odd goal in 1 or 2 is no good. It’s gotta be throwing players forwar and throwing the ball forward into the final third at every opportunity. We need to be going in search of 3 goals a game and scraping home with 2 goals against if we have to. Kevin Keegan style to draw a parallel. Because this tame and lame approach of unagressive football is getting us nowhere.

It’s scrap time, shock and awe time, and passion time and I don’t see we have that anywhere in the club  

It’s all very well you saying this Phil. In isolation it would be a plausible indictment of the management team and players. But we have had this time after time over Fenty’s years. The sooner that Jonah has gone, the better.

Quoted from Fillipe Noche

We look like a relegated team already. We look like a team just going through the motions after the mathematical conclusion has already been reached.

I’d like to say that we look like a team fighting and busting blood vessels of effort to crawl back to mathematical safety, but we just don’t.

I like Hurst, but I’m not sure this sort of fight is his bag. I know he kept Shrewsbury up, but I recall he had a lot longer to do that and a better squad.

I think that at times like this, a club needs a massive motivator that can incite fight in every game. That kicks every ball. Someone that is animated on the touchline. I don’t see that sort of person in any of those three in the management and coaching team. If we don’t have this on the touchline then we won’t get it on the pitch. It’s all a bit tame. It’s at times like this that all of your coaching qualifications and technical stuff goes out of the window. Every minute of every game has to be played like a cup final or cup tie scrap. I’m just not seeing that sort of driving from the touchline.

We’ve got to become a horrible team to play against when we haven’t got the ball, and a combative bombarding team when we have got the ball.

Nil nil draws and losing the game by the odd goal in 1 or 2 is no good. It’s gotta be throwing players forwar and throwing the ball forward into the final third at every opportunity. We need to be going in search of 3 goals a game and scraping home with 2 goals against if we have to. Kevin Keegan style to draw a parallel. Because this tame and lame approach of unagressive football is getting us nowhere.

It’s scrap time, shock and awe time, and passion time and I don’t see we have that anywhere in the club  

If you hadn’t missed so many open goals off the pitch (managing to intercourse up an automatic contract extension) then perhaps we wouldn’t miss so many on it, Phil

FFS. I've never been Hurst's biggest fan but he was given a January transfer window to sort the squad out. Before hurst came in we weren't creating much and we looked awful in defence. Now we aren't creating much but look relatively solid at the back. I don't know what people were expecting from the January transfer window. We already looked up excrement creek at that point so how many players are going to join when they look likely to lose 25% of their wage next season in a relegation clause.

It looks like we are going down. Bringing in another manager isn't going to improve out strike force. Hurst at least has some knowledge of the conference, will have one of the best budgets and has always made better summer signings than in January.

Quoted from Bawmariner

FFS. I've never been Hurst's biggest fan but he was given a January transfer window to sort the squad out. Before hurst came in we weren't creating much and we looked awful in defence. Now we aren't creating much but look relatively solid at the back. I don't know what people were expecting from the January transfer window. We already looked up excrement creek at that point so how many players are going to join when they look likely to lose 25% of their wage next season in a relegation clause.

It looks like we are going down. Bringing in another manager isn't going to improve out strike force. Hurst at least has some knowledge of the conference, will have one of the best budgets and has always made better summer signings than in January.

It's what some of us Town fans do though isn't it. I'm not saying we haven't had a rough ride for 20 or so years but we haven't helped ourselves with wayward abuse historically (an excellent board under Bill Carr, Danny Butterfield - 'he's no Macca', a 17 year old Darren Mansaram with some potential yet the expectation of him being something again, Halifax away promotion season). How many players leave here and go onto better things when they were undervalued here (Butterfield case in point)? When we are good we are amazing but when we are bad we can be horrible.

Quoted from Yoda

My worry is if we go down a lot of fans will not bother going they have got used to it now.
If Hurst is still there the ground will be empty.

Well i’ll be there if PH is

I’ll be there whoever is. It’s a problem I have.......

I’ll be there whoever is manager. We can’t collectively b1tch and moan about a regime but then not support a new one when it finally comes about because we don’t like their first appointment.

Signing players in the January window is always hard even harder if you are near the bottom of the league and falling into non league.

Remember
Hurst did sign Amond , Bogle, Tait, Macca, Rodman,Disley and the rest of the squad that got us promoted.

All of them better than what we have now.

So I have no concerns of Hurst is in charge next season.

I just hope it would be in the league but looking at the fixtures left we are down unless our club doctor can find a legal wonder drug that turns out players into wonder men.

Quoted from Marinerdeano

It's what some of us Town fans do though isn't it. I'm not saying we haven't had a rough ride for 20 or so years but we haven't helped ourselves with wayward abuse historically (an excellent board under Bill Carr, Danny Butterfield - 'he's no Macca', a 17 year old Darren Mansaram with some potential yet the expectation of him being something again, Halifax away promotion season). How many players leave here and go onto better things when they were undervalued here (Butterfield case in point)? When we are good we are amazing but when we are bad we can be horrible.

Oh FFS, take your head out of your backside.

This forum and fans are no different to any other clubs especially when they are in the excrement like we are.

Quoted from wigworld

Hurst is turning things round. We've gone from being thrashed (5 - 0 loss to Tranmere earlier in the season, 3 - 0 loss to Salford), to losing by one goal, to drawing games. I agree there's a fair chance we might run out of games, but it's far from over yet.

Don't let facts get in the way.

Holloway's last 12 league games we achieved 11 points.

Hurst's last 12 games we have achieved 6 points.

I would add that 7 of Hurst's 12 games were against teams near the bottom or in very poor form.

Quoted from pontoonlew

The fact Hurst called it a big point gives you an insight into what that half time team talk contained.

‘Sit back lads, just don’t lose, we’re going to be the only team in history to escape a relegation battle by drawing our way out of it’

I swear he’d take 46 draws a season even if it meant relegation.

Quoted from Hagrid

Well i’ll be there if PH is

I’d be there if Harold Shipman was in charge of things, I’m absolutely desperate to be there

I will also go to some games but the difference for me and several others that I know is that we will not be gettings season tickets. If we prove to not be potential champions after a few games will still go to see the bigger games but the issue will be a cold evening with nothing to play for, I want the option to miss. If we are not very competitive after this period of failure apathy will set in.
This has beaten the interest out of me and many.
Unconditionally,as a league team I would support but the non league with no atmosphere is a vacuum.
Equally I will not attend the non league cup games. I fear a lot will be like me and so tough times ahead and I am the most apathetic I have ever been.
I wonder if those of us stupid enough to buy season tickets will be offered a significant discount, this is how to sell a rubbish product I guess. We lost out badly this season and so the clubs reaction will be interesting.As we stand at the moment less than a 10% chance I will be back next season.
As for Hurst, he has been rubbish but too late to change now and so I would stick. Give him 10 games into no league if he continues to fail we have to say goodbye. He does seem to be on downward curve at the moment and did not expect him to be this bad.
Terrible for the potential new owners with a deserting fan base but we would need to show huge intent to get me and my mates back. We have got used to not going and watching on ifollow is only done as we have paid for it. 2000 season ticket sales with discounts will be a struggle next season and Hurst has very little goodwill, he walked out on us and come back and failed in the only statistic that matters.

I am not a Holloway fan and not trying to defend him. If you look at the the team Holloway produced in the league, that is the team we all criticised as rubbish, the stats for the first 12 games say W3,D3,L6, 12 points and 11 goals scored.

Hurst's first 12 games say W1,D3,L8, 6 points and 6 goals.

Both managers didn't have 'preseason' and had to wait for a team to gel, as the saying goes. Similar situations but Holloway came out on top!. As I said I'm not defending Holloway I think he's despicable, but unfortunately it does show how bad Hurst is. Holloways was a new team cobbled together just as Hurst did in January with 6 points and 6 goals being the difference.

Hurst has had experience in the NL but that was 5 years ago. Ask a West Brom fan what he thought of Allardyce when he arrived and what he thinks now. Allardyce was a good manger and is now out of his depth, just as Paul Hurst is here. Neither want to admit it.

I am quite happy to debate about Hurst staying but I cannot see one positive thing about him being here. It's a results business and Hurst hasn't got any. The stats and league position show that.

The only thing that would stop me going to see Town next season, is if Fenty is still in charge. If it was about the quality of football I would have stopped long ago. So getting relegated again isn’t going to stop me.

A bigger problem is if we went down again and end up in a regional league as there won’t be any away games close enough to get to for me down south.

Quoted from Zmariner

I will also go to some games but the difference for me and several others that I know is that we will not be gettings season tickets. If we prove to not be potential champions after a few games will still go to see the bigger games but the issue will be a cold evening with nothing to play for, I want the option to miss. If we are not very competitive after this period of failure apathy will set in.
This has beaten the interest out of me and many.
Unconditionally,as a league team I would support but the non league with no atmosphere is a vacuum.
Equally I will not attend the non league cup games. I fear a lot will be like me and so tough times ahead and I am the most apathetic I have ever been.
I wonder if those of us stupid enough to buy season tickets will be offered a significant discount, this is how to sell a rubbish product I guess. We lost out badly this season and so the clubs reaction will be interesting.As we stand at the moment less than a 10% chance I will be back next season.
As for Hurst, he has been rubbish but too late to change now and so I would stick. Give him 10 games into no league if he continues to fail we have to say goodbye. He does seem to be on downward curve at the moment and did not expect him to be this bad.
Terrible for the potential new owners with a deserting fan base but we would need to show huge intent to get me and my mates back. We have got used to not going and watching on ifollow is only done as we have paid for it. 2000 season ticket sales with discounts will be a struggle next season and Hurst has very little goodwill, he walked out on us and come back and failed in the only statistic that matters.

I think you have made a very good point about attendances next season. Stay in the EFL and it would be small base to build on. In the NL and fans will stay away, season ticket sales will drop and tbh not more 1,000. Fans will certainly be more selective and a cold Tuesday night in winter will not bode well. Keep Hurst for 10 games! He's shown he has lost his MoJo and is a yesterday's man, was good but not any more.

We will have new owners, hopefully a new ground to look forward to and desperately need a new management team and players. Hopefully when Fenty leaves he takes all the badness this club has had to endure with him and a new brush will sweep clean.

Quoted from Marinerdeano

It's what some of us Town fans do though isn't it. I'm not saying we haven't had a rough ride for 20 or so years but we haven't helped ourselves with wayward abuse historically (an excellent board under Bill Carr, Danny Butterfield - 'he's no Macca', a 17 year old Darren Mansaram with some potential yet the expectation of him being something again, Halifax away promotion season). How many players leave here and go onto better things when they were undervalued here (Butterfield case in point)? When we are good we are amazing but when we are bad we can be horrible.

Great post. Don’t forget fans slagging off our greatest ever manager as well something Buckley mentions in his book as hard to fathom. Other clubs have a minority of mood hoovers as well but I genuinely don’t think there are many others that have fans producing banners calling for the manager to be sacked a couple of weeks before getting promoted.

Quoted from Vance Warner

Great post. Don’t forget fans slagging off our greatest ever manager as well something Buckley mentions in his book as hard to fathom. Other clubs have a minority of mood hoovers as well but I genuinely don’t think there are many others that have fans producing banners calling for the manager to be sacked a couple of weeks before getting promoted.

And the thing is, our legacy of lambasting anything and everyone diminishes the credibility of our arguments when we truly have something to be aggrieved about.

Quoted from grimsby pete

Signing players in the January window is always hard even harder if you are near the bottom of the league and falling into non league.

.

It wasn't a problem fro Bradford. They were in huge trouble, signed 9 new players and have rocketed up the table since. (Wining 9 out of 13 under the new managers I believe).

It's just that we chose the wrong manager who went on to sign the wrong players.

We need a fresh start next season. Hurst has been dreadful since he left Shrewsbury.  

Quoted from RonMariner

It wasn't a problem fro Bradford. They were in huge trouble, signed 9 new players and have rocketed up the table since. (Wining 9 out of 13 under the new managers I believe).

It's just that we chose the wrong manager who went on to sign the wrong players.

We need a fresh start next season. Hurst has been dreadful since he left Shrewsbury.  

Spot on Ron, Hurst has been poor, not only at Ipswich and Scunthorpe but now here too,
No bounce, no change in fortunes, progressively getting worse with no signs of getting us out of the hole we are in.

Quoted from Vance Warner

Great post. Don’t forget fans slagging off our greatest ever manager as well something Buckley mentions in his book as hard to fathom. Other clubs have a minority of mood hoovers as well but I genuinely don’t think there are many others that have fans producing banners calling for the manager to be sacked a couple of weeks before getting promoted.

Whilst the banners were a disgrace, the fact they were even up debunks this false narrative that Hurst did a fantastic job of getting us up. The season we did go up was one of the worst ones down there imo. Crazy tactical decisions contributed to us almost dropping out of the play-offs completely and it looked for all the world like we were going to go out after the Braintree home leg.

Thankfully Hursts stubbornness was forced into a change with Monkhouse getting injured, ironically when he had the chance to bring him back, he immediately did and we had that excrement show in the Trophy Final.

Hursts critics didn’t just randomly start, it came after years of turgid football which often ended in tears at the end of the season, a lot of it was justified (the banner however, was not).

Done my usual, leave it till Monday to have a clear head.

IMO, Hurst has improved us in every department, and made us better.
We've gone from losing, and losing badly.
To having that bit of hope, and enjoyment during a game, which we just ultimately, fail to win.

Having said that, the job was too much of an ask, not just of Hurst, but of any Manager IMO.

95% of the squad wasn't good enough for this league when he took over.
Now to convince players to join us, in that position, was a huge task.

If you look at the players we signed.
Habergham - Needed a club after his injury, not many would of taken the risk
LJL & Coke - From 2 league below, wanting full time football.
Lamy - Known disciplinary problems at previous clubs
Payne - Coming back from long injury, at a team on the rise, and wouldn't of got game time
Bunney - Non-league, wanting full time football again
Menayese - fell down pecking order at Mansfield, still young and wants to play
Matete, Idris & Adams - all 20, wanting first team, competitve football

Whilst i'm not cristising the signings, as i've previously said, they've improved us.
i would say most, if not all, was not at the top of his list.

Now, i'm in the - down and out group, and think its beyond realistic to expect any different, but a possibility

Hopefully new owners get confirmed soon, and we can take a step back, for a better future, and 2 steps forward.

Is Hurst the man to get us back up?
I fully backed him being appointed, and he has non-league experience, and i think we would struggle to get a better option

Quote....he has non-league experience, and i think we would struggle to get a better option....
I was with you up until that line, I am not prepared to wait 5/6 years to get of non league again and certainly not with Hurst style of football.
Give him credit, he's kinda "stopped the rot" at the back, but we are and have remained woeful upfront, the area even Hurst highlighted in the interview with JT on the eve before he was announced as returning as the main problem.....you ain't gonna win if you can't score!...and he ain't addressed that point to any success...

Seen a couple of comments I would take issue with:

1) "Hurst has stopped the rot."

Really? His record is 1 win in 12, what would we consider a rot if this isn't one. Statistically,  he's made the rot worse.

2) "Hurst's signings have improved us."

If his signings have improved us why is our form worse than it was with Holloway and his squad?

I think I've really started to enjoy watching town games now I've accepted going down as a most likely reality. As with most things that have been gone from the club for a while they become better with time, Holloway seems to be becoming that. People are comparing records but Holloway was with us until January basically.

In the last 15 games it was W3 D2 L10. This was already a club with a losing mentality in the building. The stats are about the same as what Hurst managed tbh and you can't change a losing mentality easily. In the last 9 games before Hurst joined we won only 1 game. We drew 2 and lost the rest. The main difference is how many goals were scored which probably says more about Hurst's defensive mentality and some of the lazy mercenaries we settled for to replace lower league signings than anything else. It's all a bit the same as the squad Neil Woods threw together to phase out some of the more toxic squad members. Lots of people with nothing to gain beyond a payday at the club, managed to start conceding less but didn't score any either and ended up with lots of draws.

In anything I'm mainly focused on us getting the takeover finished and getting rid of a boardroom that had nothing but contempt for the fanbase and were more focused on politics and their own interests than that of the club. Fenty rubbing shoulders with Boris and Farage and having Boris run around in a GTFC hat was embarrassing.

1) "Hurst has stopped the rot."

Think people, including me, have noticed we aren't as leaky as we were and aren't thinking "that's another" every time the opponent attacks..
By no means do I think he's improved us per se, actually attacking wise he's taken us backwards and there in lies the problem, we just can't score and that's not changed at all..

Bradford, Burton and Barnsley have all started winning games frequently after appointing new managers (after being in big trouble beforehand).  

Quoted from TownSNAFU5

Bradford, Burton and Barnsley have all started winning games frequently after appointing new managers (after being in big trouble beforehand).  

Not doing Barrow much harm either at the moment.

Perhaps it only works for teams beginning with a B?