Substitutions

Substitutions after 90 minutes destroyed our rhythm. Shame - as all the points were in the bag.
Never mind - Town should have won

Trouble is, it doesn't matter whether we deserve to win. We are adrift at the bottom. All that matters is actually winning.

The two points we chucked away tonight, plus the point we stupidly chucked away with the last kick against Stevenage are what may well send us down. We just cant afford to chuck 3 points away.  

I know Ron Mariner - I have already accepted we’re going down. And I expected us to concede late. But I think the team is playing better and that is pleasing.
Paul has had a massive job to turn the situation round from when he came in - and a lot of that will be to get in to the minds of the players - existing and new. I think he is starting to achieve  something here, and then shooting himself in the foot with unfortunate substitution choices.
But I do think he will help us

Quoted from Teestogreen

I know Ron Mariner - I have already accepted we’re going down. And I expected us to concede late. But I think the team is playing better and that is pleasing.
Paul has had a massive job to turn the situation round from when he came in - and a lot of that will be to get in to the minds of the players - existing and new. I think he is starting to achieve  something here, and then shooting himself in the foot with unfortunate substitution choices.
But I do think he will help us

Yep, hell us alright, to go down!..

Hurst has never really been to make use of his subs positively

Quoted from sonofmadeleymariner

Hurst has never really been to make use of his subs positively

Most teams and better teams than us make subs in the last few minutes to waste time when winning. Would a positive substitution have been sticking a forward on? We need to move on now.

Quoted from bawarmy

Most teams and better teams than us make subs in the last few minutes to waste time when winning. Would a positive substitution have been sticking a forward on? We need to move on now.

No a positive substitution, wouldn't of been swapping a winger for CM and then swapping another winger for a CB and changing our shape to a formation we know doesn't work (even if it is just for 4 minutes) from a formation that has been working for 90 minutes. A positive Sub would of been like for like, winger for a winger, CM for CM to inject fresh legs into a team that had worked so hard for a win that was ribbed from us by an inept tactician.

We shouldn't just be moving on from this, if you accept mediocrity you get mediocrity. You could move on if it was a rarity and you went well Hurst got it wrong this time, but this is something we've been criticising him for since we were in the conference, Scunny fans were criticising him for and I suspect, Shrews and Ipswitch fans were criticising him for.

Subs at the end cost us.

Carlisle weren't playing through us and weren't creating chances. They wanted to pump balls into our box to push for an equaliser, but still being 442 they couldn't do that so easily because we were there in front of them not allowing too many crosses. Going to 5 at the back with Waterfall in there just invited pressure un-necessarily. It then allowed them loads of time just inside our half to be able to come forward and chuck balls into our box. Just like our 5-3-2 set up at Harrogate the other week, we allowed a team to do exactly what they wanted to do, hoping to just defend against once they'd done it.

Several are saying - yeah but loads of other managers would bring on an extra CB to see out injury time. Yes, some might, but I think it's lazy to just think throwing another defender on will work.
Bring an extra CB if you're playing against a team that are trying to play through you and don't particularly just sling the ball in the box (in the Prem, for example). But in L2, it played into the oppositions hands, especially with us being a team that must have conceded umpteen goals from crosses this season so shouldn't be content to encourage a team to come at us and back our ability to defend crosses.

Can't really remember Carlisle having a proper chance all game. We make that change in the 90th minute and then they have two golden chances, one of which they score from.

There's about 50 managers on this board who would all have done things differently and got a result.

All with the benefit of hindsight.

Substitutions were always going to cost us, that is always going to be the case with us this season, whether Holloway or Hurst, ...largely due to the fact our squad is massive yet absolutely devoid of quality in depth in just about every position.

I posted at half time last night the subs would be crucial, sounds an obvious enough statement to make but the crux of it is we are 30 odd games in and the starting 11 last night had probably 5 players who are only at pre season levels of fitness, Coke,LJL, Lamy, Meneyase, Habergham........Hanson doesnt look up to full tilt either and Morais puts alot in but also cant last 90.

So even on general fitness levels we maybe would need 7 subs  before we start thinking about injuries, players just having a bad game, tactical swaps etc.

Then look at who is on the bench to try and replace those that put so much in effort in during the first half.  Not too many that would really make a starting 11.

Hurst may go for what looks like a defensive option too often on the subs but with the overall squad we have there just isnt enough there either.

I would have accepted a point before the game.......

Quoted from moosey_club

Substitutions were always going to cost us, that is always going to be the case with us this season, whether Holloway or Hurst, ...largely due to the fact our squad is massive yet absolutely devoid of quality in depth in just about every position.

I posted at half time last night the subs would be crucial, sounds an obvious enough statement to make but the crux of it is we are 30 odd games in and the starting 11 last night had probably 5 players who are only at pre season levels of fitness, Coke,LJL, Lamy, Meneyase, Habergham........Hanson doesnt look up to full tilt either and Morais puts alot in but also cant last 90.

So even on general fitness levels we maybe would need 7 subs  before we start thinking about injuries, players just having a bad game, tactical swaps etc.

Then look at who is on the bench to try and replace those that put so much in effort in during the first half.  Not too many that would really make a starting 11.

Hurst may go for what looks like a defensive option too often on the subs but with the overall squad we have there just isnt enough there either.

I was going to make this point as well.

Some of the substitutions will be forced due to a general lack of match fitness among a good proportion of the squad. Lamy had a tight hamstring according to Hurst and we had no natural replacement, so that meant a reshuffle. Bunney could have gone left side but he had already been used to replace Habergham. El Miz has played there but it looks like he's out for the season. Scannell and Wright are injured again, along with Bennett, whose been out for a while. Down to the bare bones for players able to play out wide.

On another thread, someone mentioned Pollock now being 4th choice in reference to Waterfall coming on at the end, but Pollock is also injured. We seem to be having another spate of injuries, when we looked to have a full squad to pick from just days ago.

We don't have the knowledge of where players are at like PH does. We have to trust that he makes the right calls, but when it goes wrong like it did last night, the focus goes onto that part of the game, and not the previous 90 mins, which were generally positive. Not getting the rub of the green at the moment.

Quoted from ginnywings

I was going to make this point as well.

Some of the substitutions will be forced due to a general lack of match fitness among a good proportion of the squad. Lamy had a tight hamstring according to Hurst and we had no natural replacement, so that meant a reshuffle. Bunney could have gone left side but he had already been used to replace Habergham. El Miz has played there but it looks like he's out for the season. Scannell and Wright are injured again, along with Bennett, whose been out for a while. Down to the bare bones for players able to play out wide.

On another thread, someone mentioned Pollock now being 4th choice in reference to Waterfall coming on at the end, but Pollock is also injured. We seem to be having another spate of injuries, when we looked to have a full squad to pick from just days ago.

We don't have the knowledge of where players are at like PH does. We have to trust that he makes the right calls, but when it goes wrong like it did last night, the focus goes onto that part of the game, and not the previous 90 mins, which were generally positive. Not getting the rub of the green at the moment.

The longer the game went on the more obvious we needed an outlet, LJL and Hanson cant turn a defence and once the midfield was fcked they just became isolated.
A quicker more mobile striker last 20 mins could have given us counter options and occupied there back line a little more.....but again we dont have one of those, I suppose out of the existing squad Jackson Jr might be the only one now.

Quoted from Epworth Mariner

I would have accepted a point before the game.......

I went with 1-1 on the POM

Just so gutting to have those three points in our grasp and then to just let them slip at the death

Quoted from Epworth Mariner

I would have accepted a point before the game.......

Why ?

A point is about as much good as an ashtray on a motorbike in our position !

Would help if we had 11 players that are fit enough to play 90 minutes.

Quoted from bawarmy

Most teams and better teams than us make subs in the last few minutes to waste time when winning. Would a positive substitution have been sticking a forward on? We need to move on now.

Moving on is not a regular characteristic of this forum.

Hindsight or not, this is what Hurst does to secure the win - and then he doesn’t.  

It isn’t just the substitutions, it is the negative mindset. This was evident time and again under PH1 and exactly the same was complained about when he was at Shrewsbury. The old saying that they can’t score if we keep the ball in their half is not part of the Hurst mantra.

Whoever he brings on may have limited ability in a more advanced position but they need to be marked as opposed to doing marking. We failed to get a second goal and surely he knows this side cannot defend a 1-0 lead?