|
|
 PPMariner |
|
 Table Wine Drinker  Posts: 823
Posts Per Day: 0.14
Reputation: 69.38%
Rep Score: +15 / -8
Approval: +476
Gold Stars: 9
|
Played 67
Won 15
Drawn 21
Lost 31
Points 66
67 15 21 31
Moreover, two of the clubs managed in the above period were expected to be challenging for promotion.
The record from the above record probably ought to be that the individual involved still has a job in management. And that most of that club’s fans are happy about it...
UTM
|
| "Associate yourself with men of good quality, if you esteem your own reputation; for 'tis better to be alone than in bad company." |
|
|
|
|
|
| The_Laughing_Mariner |
|
Brandy Drinker  Posts: 2,842
Posts Per Day: 0.47
Reputation: 78.02%
Rep Score: +17 / -5
Approval: +1,047
Gold Stars: 10
|
Go on then, give us a clue
|
| <'(((((<
When I was a little boy
I asked my daddy what would i be
would I be United, would i be Leeds
Here's what he said to me
Oh Grimsby Grimsby
Whatever will be will be
You'll follow then faithfully
Oh Grimsby Grimsby
Tell me Mam me Mam
I dont want no tea no tea
I'm watching the Grimsby
Tell me Mam me mam |
|
|
|
|
|
| DB |
|
Barley Wine Drinker  Posts: 18,973
Posts Per Day: 15.39
Reputation: 57.79%
Rep Score: +13 / -13
Approval: +4,055
Gold Stars: 391
|
Played 67
Won 15
Drawn 21
Lost 31
Points 66
67 15 21 31
Moreover, two of the clubs managed in the above period were expected to be challenging for promotion.
The record from the above record probably ought to be that the individual involved still has a job in management. And that most of that club’s fans are happy about it...
UTM
Haven't got the foggiest idea what your on about. Are these lucky lottery numbers |
| You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time |
|
|
|
|
|
| GollyGTFC |
|
 Whiskey Drinker  Posts: 3,978
Posts Per Day: 0.69
Reputation: 67.2%
Rep Score: +19 / -11
Approval: +6,065
Gold Stars: 359
|
Played 67
Won 15
Drawn 21
Lost 31
Points 66
67 15 21 31
Moreover, two of the clubs managed in the above period were expected to be challenging for promotion.
The record from the above record probably ought to be that the individual involved still has a job in management. And that most of that club’s fans are happy about it...
UTM
Not sure your figures are quite right if it's supposed to be... Paul Hurst... Ipswich - P 15 - W 1 D 7 L 7 Scunthorpe - P 38 - W 12 D 10 L 16 Grimsby - P 8 - W 1 D 1 L 6 TOTAL - P61 - W 14 D 18 L 29 And if you were referring to PH, neither Ipswich or Scunthorpe were expected to be challenging for promotion when he took over. |
|
|
|
|
|
| Northbank Mariner |
|
Whiskey Drinker Posts: 3,973
Posts Per Day: 1.75
Reputation: 60.08%
Rep Score: +9 / -9
Approval: +7,533
Gold Stars: 172
|
Not sure your figures are quite right if it's supposed to be...
Paul Hurst...
Ipswich - P 15 - W 1 D 7 L 7
Scunthorpe - P 38 - W 12 D 10 L 16
Grimsby - P 8 - W 1 D 1 L 6
TOTAL - P61 - W 14 D 18 L 29
And if you were referring to PH, neither Ipswich or Scunthorpe were expected to be challenging for promotion when he took over.
Doesn't make good reading though Golly, his league stats are quite bleak really. |
|
|
|
|
|
| PPMariner |
|
Table Wine Drinker Posts: 823
Posts Per Day: 0.14
Reputation: 69.38%
Rep Score: +15 / -8
Approval: +476
Gold Stars: 9
|
Not sure your figures are quite right if it's supposed to be...
Paul Hurst...
Ipswich - P 15 - W 1 D 7 L 7
Scunthorpe - P 38 - W 12 D 10 L 16
Grimsby - P 8 - W 1 D 1 L 6
TOTAL - P61 - W 14 D 18 L 29
And if you were referring to PH, neither Ipswich or Scunthorpe were expected to be challenging for promotion when he took over.
Figures are right, final six league games at Shrewsbury in there. If the only gloss one can put on those numbers is that you contest Ipswich and Scunny weren’t top half teams - perhaps says it all about how abysmal the record is. |
| "Associate yourself with men of good quality, if you esteem your own reputation; for 'tis better to be alone than in bad company." |
|
|
|
|
|
| arryarryarry |
|
Barley Wine Drinker Posts: 10,277
Posts Per Day: 1.71
Reputation: 52.76%
Rep Score: +26 / -28
Approval: +10,051
Gold Stars: 117
|
Not knowing how many would have applied for the job after Holloway left (did we actually advertise it) I am sure there would have been many on here complaining if we had brought in someone else who had been sacked from his last two jobs and one of them he had taken his team to the bottom of the League and the other to the lower reaches of League 2.
|
|
 Logged |
|
|
|
|
| pontoonlew |
|
Vodka Drinker  Posts: 5,601
Posts Per Day: 1.00
Reputation: 72.45%
Rep Score: +37 / -15
Approval: +9,098
Gold Stars: 181
|
Not knowing how many would have applied for the job after Holloway left (did we actually advertise it) I am sure there would have been many on here complaining if we had brought in someone else who had been sacked from his last two jobs and one of them he had taken his team to the bottom of the League and the other to the lower reaches of League 2.
I think the few that did question Hurst were shot down in almighty flames. A common theme |
|
|
|
|
|
| DB |
|
Barley Wine Drinker Posts: 18,973
Posts Per Day: 15.39
Reputation: 57.79%
Rep Score: +13 / -13
Approval: +4,055
Gold Stars: 391
|
Doesn't make good reading though Golly, his league stats are quite bleak really.
Shrewsbury Town 24 October 2016 30 May 2018 97 47 23 27 48.5 Ipswich Town 30 May 2018 25 October 2018 15 1 7 7 6.7 Scunthorpe United 13 May 2019 29 January 2020 38 12 10 16 31.6 Grimsby Town 30 December 2020 Present 8 1 1 6 12.5 The above are from Wiki so his % wins (last figures) at Scunny and Shrewsbury. aren't too bad So I suppose it depends on how you look at the figures |
| You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time |
|
|
|
|
|
| BobbyCummingsTackle |
|
Champagne Drinker  Posts: 2,403
Posts Per Day: 1.54
Reputation: 72.37%
Rep Score: +8 / -4
Location: Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middle...
Approval: +7,319
Gold Stars: 309
|
Shrewsbury Town 24 October 2016 30 May 2018 97 47 23 27 48.5
Ipswich Town 30 May 2018 25 October 2018 15 1 7 7 6.7
Scunthorpe United 13 May 2019 29 January 2020 38 12 10 16 31.6
Grimsby Town 30 December 2020 Present 8 1 1 6 12.5
The above are from Wiki so his % wins (last figures) at Scunny and Shrewsbury. aren't too bad So I suppose it depends on how you look at the figures
From here if he got a 48.5% win rate we'd avoid relegation. Shrewsbury were very poor when he took over there but he got them to mid table(ish) |
| Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice. |
|
|
|
|
|
| GollyGTFC |
|
Whiskey Drinker Posts: 3,978
Posts Per Day: 0.69
Reputation: 67.2%
Rep Score: +19 / -11
Approval: +6,065
Gold Stars: 359
|
Figures are right, final six league games at Shrewsbury in there.
If the only gloss one can put on those numbers is that you contest Ipswich and Scunny weren’t top half teams - perhaps says it all about how abysmal the record is.
They can’t be right. He didn’t win 1 or his last 6 matches at Shrewsbury. They won both legs of their play-off semi-final, so that’s 2 wins in his last 3 matches for them. And before you argue that they’re not league matches, you’ve included all his cup games at both Ipswich & Scunthorpe in your figures. |
|
|
|
|
|
| BlackandWhiteBarmy2 |
|
Snakebite drinker  Posts: 369
Posts Per Day: 0.29
Reputation: 86.91%
Rep Score: +5 / 0
Location: Mablegrad
Approval: +1,022
Gold Stars: 59
|
Figures are right, final six league games at Shrewsbury in there.
If the only gloss one can put on those numbers is that you contest Ipswich and Scunny weren’t top half teams - perhaps says it all about how abysmal the record is.
Shouldn't you be including the whole of his time with the Shrews. They were absolute certainties for the drop when he took over, yet they didn't get relegated and the next season they made the play-offs, in League 1. Good job we didn't get the Cowleys, their record at Huddersfield was awful. |
| And when you fall back into the mud it hurts a lot.
No! None of it was true, none of those things we thought we could see existed at all.
All that was really there was still more misery
Emile Zola |
|
|
|
|
|
| promotion plaice |
|
 ModeratorPosts: 19,685
Posts Per Day: 3.85
Reputation: 64.79%
Rep Score: +20 / -13
Location: Cleethorpes
Approval: +17,082
Gold Stars: 201
|
Shouldn't you be including the whole of his time with the Shrews. They were absolute certainties for the drop when he took over, yet they didn't get relegated and the next season they made the play-offs, in League 1. Good job we didn't get the Cowleys, their record at Huddersfield was awful.
I think Huddersfield were adrift at the bottom when the Cowley's took over and they kept them up, they did a good job there if you ask me. I would have preferred the Cowley's over Hurst if I'm honest but doubt they would have been interested anyway. |
| When Leeds trainer Les Cocker was once told Norman Hunter had broken a leg, he asked: “Whose is it?” |
|
|
|
|
|
| Hagrid |
|
|
Posts: 12,043
Posts Per Day: 2.80
Reputation: 71.14%
Rep Score: +49 / -21
Approval: +20,518
Gold Stars: 544
|
jesus this really required?
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Fillipe Noche |
|
Table Wine Drinker Posts: 749
Posts Per Day: 0.61
Reputation: 31.15%
Rep Score: +3 / -21
Location: Brigg
Approval: -5,112
Gold Stars: 103
|
Absolutely no point to any of this debate
|
|
|
|
|
|
 rancido |
|
|
Posts: 7,535
Posts Per Day: 1.26
Reputation: 80.3%
Rep Score: +41 / -10
Approval: +6,658
Gold Stars: 101
|
There are lies ,damn lies and statistics .
|
| The Future is Black & White.
"The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa |
|
| Logged |
Online |
|
|
|
| DB |
|
Barley Wine Drinker Posts: 18,973
Posts Per Day: 15.39
Reputation: 57.79%
Rep Score: +13 / -13
Approval: +4,055
Gold Stars: 391
|
Absolutely no point to any of this debate
Bullying Fillipe ! |
| You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time |
|
|
|
|
|
| DB |
|
Barley Wine Drinker Posts: 18,973
Posts Per Day: 15.39
Reputation: 57.79%
Rep Score: +13 / -13
Approval: +4,055
Gold Stars: 391
|
There are lies ,damn lies and statistics .
Sounds like a game plan to me |
| You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time |
|
|
|
|
|
| exiledmeggie |
|
Lager Top Drinker  Posts: 333
Posts Per Day: 0.11
Reputation: 51.49%
Rep Score: +1 / -6
Location: Out of area
Approval: -208
Gold Stars: 20
|
So Paul Lambert has left Ipswich! Wonder if they want Paul Hurts back?
|
| Living in Exile since 1980, but still have Black and White blood! |
|
|
|
|
|
| psgmariner |
|
|
Posts: 10,122
Posts Per Day: 1.69
Reputation: 73.33%
Rep Score: +39 / -15
Approval: +5,480
Gold Stars: 33
|
|
| Logged |
|
|
|
|
| DB |
|
Barley Wine Drinker Posts: 18,973
Posts Per Day: 15.39
Reputation: 57.79%
Rep Score: +13 / -13
Approval: +4,055
Gold Stars: 391
|
That typo  Deliberate or otherwise it made me laugh. Ipswich's worst manager ever according to many. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TW1tsksJlo
At least he didn't have to get rid of quality players when he arrived because we didn't have any. Now he's replaced the team, with the exception of Eastwood, we still don't have any quality players. |
| You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time |
|
|
|
|
|
| denni266 |
|
 Whiskey Drinker Posts: 4,307
Posts Per Day: 0.83
Reputation: 46.02%
Rep Score: +13 / -22
Approval: +703
Gold Stars: 132
|
The problem is that hollowhead put a tier 5/6 squad together . Hurst has got rid / palmed off / droped these players and replaced them with tier 5 players .. problem is we are in tier 4 league. I think i see the problem there.. now is it deliberate as expecting to go down or is it no one wanted to come here
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Poojah |
|
Vodka Drinker Posts: 7,305
Posts Per Day: 1.26
Reputation: 86.63%
Rep Score: +76 / -11
Approval: +29,881
Gold Stars: 1,524
|
The problem is that hollowhead put a tier 5/6 squad together . Hurst has got rid / palmed off / droped these players and replaced them with tier 5 players .. problem is we are in tier 4 league. I think i see the problem there.. now is it deliberate as expecting to go down or is it no one wanted to come here
There's something that really bothers me about this because as much as I agree with your point about it being a tier 5/6 squad, the very worst of that side had us in 16th place and 8 points above the relegation zone after 10 games, despite having played a game less than most of the league. At that point our PPG was 1.2, not great by any means but has since dropped to just 0.63 - effectively half. In the 19 games since we have accrued just the same amount of points as we did in our first 10. I didn't think this season would be a great or even a good one just under a quarter of the way in, but I didn't expect us to find ourselves deep, deep in a relegation battle. Did we just fluke some of those early wins, or is there more to this story than we are currently aware of? |
| A smooth sea never made a skillful mariner. |
|
| Logged |
Online |
|
|
|
| pontoonlew |
|
Vodka Drinker Posts: 5,601
Posts Per Day: 1.00
Reputation: 72.45%
Rep Score: +37 / -15
Approval: +9,098
Gold Stars: 181
|
There's something that really bothers me about this because as much as I agree with your point about it being a tier 5/6 squad, the very worst of that side had us in 16th place and 8 points above the relegation zone after 10 games, despite having played a game less than most of the league. At that point our PPG was 1.2, not great by any means but has since dropped to just 0.63 - effectively half.
In the 19 games since we have accrued just the same amount of points as we did in our first 10. I didn't think this season would be a great or even a good one just under a quarter of the way in, but I didn't expect us to find ourselves deep, deep in a relegation battle.
Did we just fluke some of those early wins, or is there more to this story than we are currently aware of?
Think our fans conveniently forget that our form was actually okay at the start of the season and the fact we looked absolutely fine until mid November. The only thing I can pinpoint was Edwards getting injured at Harrogate, there was a noticeable difference in the way we played almost immediately and we didn’t seem to recover the previous style whatsoever. What he offered for me was keeping the ball away from our box and into theirs. After that, Preston got torn to bits and once Edwards came back, I feel the morale of some had taken a proper hammering. I get that it’s probably a multitude of things but for all the criticism our recruitment (rightfully) got, it didn’t seem for a minute it was bad enough to send us down even if we weren’t picking up that many wins. |
|
|
|
|
|
| malkamalka |
|
Table Wine Drinker Posts: 887
Posts Per Day: 0.15
Reputation: 83.41%
Rep Score: +2 / 0
Approval: +150
Gold Stars: 17
|
The problem is that hollowhead put a tier 5/6 squad together . Hurst has got rid / palmed off / droped these players and replaced them with tier 5 players .. problem is we are in tier 4 league. I think i see the problem there.. now is it deliberate as expecting to go down or is it no one wanted to come here
What budget did Hurst have? Did we have money to actually buy players? On another point comparing Hurst to Holloway - didn't he actually walk away? So saying we should have kept him is a bit rich (even in hindsight). |
| "Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens." (Jimi Hendrix) |
|
|
|
|
|
| moosey_club |
|
Barley Wine Drinker Posts: 16,208
Posts Per Day: 2.70
Reputation: 76.19%
Rep Score: +69 / -22
Approval: +20,320
Gold Stars: 229
|
But let's not forget, the fans weren't clamouring for change, or calling for Hurst to return....Holloway just fcking legged it and left us in the lurch.
Given the timing of it, the window about to open the club decided to act fast and appointed someone they already knew, who was out of work, knows the club and set up.
I dont think they really had time to undertake a fully open recruitment process so just went with Hurst to some degree.
I personally had reservations as I dont like his not lose first mentality as opposed to a go win it personality but under the circumstances not losing would be an acceptable change.
Trouble is I dont think the players know how to play a not lose game as yet as we have looked awful at the back, which given Hursts standpoint that really is a worry.
Tomorrow has that air of doom about it already, Orient on a shocking run, cant score goals, sacked the manager.....which normally means.......lump on Orient to win by 3 clear goals.
|
| 2023/24 DLWDDWDLLLWDLLLLWDDDWDLLWLDLLDWDDWLLDWLWLWL but not NLN 😁 2022/23LDWDWWDWLLDWWDLLLDLWLLWLWLLWDDLDWWDDDLLWDWLWLW 2021/22 WDWWWWDLWWWWLLLWLLDLWLLWWDWWWLWDLWWDWWWDLWD play offs WWW Promoted 🥳 2020/21 LLDWWLDLDWLWLLLDLWLLDLLDLLLWLLLDDDDWDDDLWLWLWL .. hello darkness my old friend 2019/20 WDLDWWLDLWWLLLDLDLDLDDWWDLLWDDWWL  WLLW - ended 2018/19 LWDDLLLLLLWWDWLLLWDWLWWWWLLLLWWWWDLLLDDLLDLWLW Hello Scunny  |
|
|
|
|
|
| DB |
|
Barley Wine Drinker Posts: 18,973
Posts Per Day: 15.39
Reputation: 57.79%
Rep Score: +13 / -13
Approval: +4,055
Gold Stars: 391
|
What budget did Hurst have? Did we have money to actually buy players?
On another point comparing Hurst to Holloway - didn't he actually walk away? So saying we should have kept him is a bit rich (even in hindsight).
According to Day 'money isn't a problem' |
| You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time |
|
|
|
|
|
| promotion plaice |
|
Moderator
Posts: 19,685
Posts Per Day: 3.85
Reputation: 64.79%
Rep Score: +20 / -13
Location: Cleethorpes
Approval: +17,082
Gold Stars: 201
|
So Paul Lambert has left Ipswich! Wonder if they want Paul Hurts back?
Best ask Swin |
| When Leeds trainer Les Cocker was once told Norman Hunter had broken a leg, he asked: “Whose is it?” |
|
|
|
|
|
| arryarryarry |
|
Barley Wine Drinker Posts: 10,277
Posts Per Day: 1.71
Reputation: 52.76%
Rep Score: +26 / -28
Approval: +10,051
Gold Stars: 117
|
Think our fans conveniently forget that our form was actually okay at the start of the season and the fact we looked absolutely fine until mid November.
The only thing I can pinpoint was Edwards getting injured at Harrogate, there was a noticeable difference in the way we played almost immediately and we didn’t seem to recover the previous style whatsoever. What he offered for me was keeping the ball away from our box and into theirs. After that, Preston got torn to bits and once Edwards came back, I feel the morale of some had taken a proper hammering.
I get that it’s probably a multitude of things but for all the criticism our recruitment (rightfully) got, it didn’t seem for a minute it was bad enough to send us down even if we weren’t picking up that many wins.
I mentioned something similar in another thread. In some games he was by far our best player, he did struggle a bit when he came back, maybe not fully fit but we just haven't had a similar type of player that can frighten defences. |
|
| Logged |
|
|
|
|
| denni266 |
|
Whiskey Drinker Posts: 4,307
Posts Per Day: 0.83
Reputation: 46.02%
Rep Score: +13 / -22
Approval: +703
Gold Stars: 132
|
What budget did Hurst have? Did we have money to actually buy players?
On another point comparing Hurst to Holloway - didn't he actually walk away? So saying we should have kept him is a bit rich (even in hindsight).
I dont remember saying that we should have kept Holloway . In fact i was glad when he went but i was and still in the mind that he was not here for the football . I am also not a fan of Hurst but it has been a shock how he has failed to turn things around , he has so far not steadied the ship one bit |
|
|
|
|
|
| diehardmariner |
|
Vodka Drinker Posts: 5,998
Posts Per Day: 1.00
Reputation: 84.65%
Rep Score: +36 / -6
Approval: +17,716
Gold Stars: 543
|
Think our fans conveniently forget that our form was actually okay at the start of the season and the fact we looked absolutely fine until mid November.
The only thing I can pinpoint was Edwards getting injured at Harrogate, there was a noticeable difference in the way we played almost immediately and we didn’t seem to recover the previous style whatsoever. What he offered for me was keeping the ball away from our box and into theirs. After that, Preston got torn to bits and once Edwards came back, I feel the morale of some had taken a proper hammering.
I get that it’s probably a multitude of things but for all the criticism our recruitment (rightfully) got, it didn’t seem for a minute it was bad enough to send us down even if we weren’t picking up that many wins.
I think you've highlighted two decent points in regards Edwards and Preston. There was a period for about six weeks to two months when our left hand side was our absolute Achilles. Every side targeted and we drowned as a result. I'm not suggesting the players have ever downed tools, but I personally feel that they lost faith in Holloway. It dented their confidence and belief because they never knew what was happening. For all his hyperbole about people management, he clearly did none of this. Once the players lose belief, that's really difficult to get back. I think the downturn from October/November onwards can also be attributed partly to a poor training schedule. Almost a gradual decline sort of thing. The first few months of the season we didn't notice the effects as much, although we did look incredibly unfit. But as the weeks without a decent training schedule turned into months, we got away with less and we got found out, big time. I don't think it's as easy as some expected for Hurst to come in and just put the pieces back together. What I will say is that we can't really hide behind these excuses anymore. Hurst's job is huge and if he pulls it off it'll eclipse anything he's done before, but he's got his own staff in the building, his own players on the pitch and they're playing to his tactics. It's harsh and no-one should be expected to rebuild a squad, both in terms of players and confidence for those remaining, but he has to be judged on his own merits now. But that's the merits of now. Dragging up his historical record serves no purpose at all, especially when you omit two years from his record at Shrewsbury because it doesn't suit your argument... |
|
| Logged |
|
|
|
|
| ginnywings |
|
 Recovering Alcoholic  Posts: 28,151
Posts Per Day: 5.02
Reputation: 73.79%
Rep Score: +88 / -32
Approval: +56,153
Gold Stars: 548
|
Played 67
Won 15
Drawn 21
Lost 31
Points 66
67 15 21 31
Moreover, two of the clubs managed in the above period were expected to be challenging for promotion.
The record from the above record probably ought to be that the individual involved still has a job in management. And that most of that club’s fans are happy about it...
UTM
Think you are being a bit selective, which is easy to do when you look at stats in isolation, and without context. Hurst was a manager on the rise through non league, then up through the EFL until he got to Ipswich, where it all went t1ts up. It happens that some managers don't fit at some clubs, but his record prior to that was pretty impressive, and I say that as someone who isn't his biggest fan. After Ipswich, his stock was lower and the job offers were not as juicy. I don't know what happened at Scunny, but he didn't last long, so finding himself out of work and with us needing someone pronto after Runaway legged it, and a crucial transfer window looming, I think we made the right choice given his past association with the club, enabling him to settle quickly. His previous rescue act at Shrewsbury being another good reason to give him a go with us again. It's not happened as we would have liked so far, but building an entire new team mid season was always going to be a risky move. I think the time to judge is at the end of the season, because we have gone down this route now and there is no going back. I don't think he has a relegation on his CV to date and he will be busting a gut to prevent one, although he can justifiably claim he wasn't wholly culpable in that. He was given an 18 month contract, so if we go down, it looks like he will be given at least a season to try and get us back up. |
|
|
|
|
|
| Zmariner |
|
Fine Wine Drinker  Posts: 1,027
Posts Per Day: 0.17
Reputation: 75.95%
Rep Score: +8 / -3
Approval: +2,131
Gold Stars: 44
|
Agreed that the statistics do not look good but I think Hurst takes a significant amount of time to get things working. When he left Scunthorpe they had improved dramatically, initially they were absolutely abysmal. He was also not dismissed for Football reasons per Peter Swann I think it was his inability to cut the budget.
At Ipswich there were some member ups, he had the misfortune to lose good strikers very early but then tried to push lower league players into the championship which proved to fail
The point that I make here is that Hurst is not usually an instant fix merchant which is actually terrifying for us this season because that is really what we need. Hopefully tonight we will see some seeds of improvement but the game could go any way utm
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Site Home
News
Football
Season
Database
Club
POM
Contact
Home
Calendar
Search
Register
Login
PPMariner
rancido
Logged
WLLW - ended
