As always there will be plenty of names we want but most of them wouldn't fancy it for one reason or another. Hopefully the Cowleys and Robinson are in the running
I'm sure the owners will have a few candidates in mind. They have had a while to contemplate this eventuality. I suppose the fundamental choice is between an established manager or someone who recently joined the ranks and maybe stepping up for the first time to this level.
'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. ~ Alfred Lord Tennyson
On 9 October 2023, John Eustace was sacked by Birmingham City citing the importance of the board of directors and management being fully aligned on the culture of the football club as the reason behind the decision. An impressive start to the season had seen the club sitting in sixth position with eighteen points from eleven matches.
Over 10 matches, at Birmingham Eustace had the 5th best home win rate in the championship, but 4th worse away from home. When managing Kidderminster, Eustace had a 53% win rate.
Since Wayne Rooney being at Birmingham, they have lost 3 on the bounce.
I wouldn't mind betting they've got someone line up. These men don't just pull the trigger willy-nilly. The exit was obviously already agreed, should we lose, and I've no doubt the replacement has already been identified. I would be really, really shocked if this wasnt the case
I wouldn't mind betting they've got someone line up. These men don't just pull the trigger willy-nilly. The exit was obviously already agreed, should we lose, and I've no doubt the replacement has already been identified. I would be really, really shocked if this wasnt the case
An "outstanding candidate" could be revealed tomorrow
'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. ~ Alfred Lord Tennyson
I think they'll go for a woman. I don't know enough about the women's game to know who but it would align with their philosophy and would make a nice Guardian column
Whoever the next manager is please give Cartwright the chance to prove himself as our No 1 keeper, he deserves it after today.
Dead Eye Dobbin stood motionless waiting, waiting, waiting for the ball to arrive. Back came the right foot, Down came the right foot, Bang ! Headlines around the world as the ball flew into the very top right hand corner of the goal.( Jim Dobbin scoring in the 89th minute for Town against Newcastle United away 24/10/1992 )
Can't imagine either option appeals to 1878 to be honest. I think it was said in jest but it wouldn't surprise me at all if we went down the route of a female manager. Although I don't think that will happen here just yet.
Certainly not expecting one of the names that we're all banding about. The purpose of these links with the likes of Twenty First Group is that we'll see things before others too, or at least before the majority.
Someone from an Under 23/Academy setup with a distinct style and philosophy, that they want across the whole club, is my guess.
Batch, Crombie, Moore K, Wiggington, Cumming, Waters, Bonnyman, Ford, Emson, Drinkell, Whymark. Love you all, You are the reason I'm on here. You've had help from Todd, Handyside, Futcher P, Groves, Mendonca, Macca etc etc etc. Up The Mariners!!!!!!!!!
As always there will be plenty of names we want but most of them wouldn't fancy it for one reason or another. Hopefully the Cowleys and Robinson are in the running
Cowleys….definitely not. Boring boring
Karl Robinson is a great guy and manager. I’ve met him and a definite possibility
Either way who we get just hope they choose Someone wisely please. WE have our fair share of "Numpties!" To be honest i am no way qualified to suggest a man or woman for the job. Slough going to be interesting No bad feelings towards PH thats football. Thanks for the good times UTM
An Exile and Proud !! UTM Mariners Trust Life Member. In the words of my Uncle Fred "You can take the man outta of Grimsby BUT you can't take the Grimsby! Out the man!"
Inevitable given our form and the impossibility of getting out of National League again quickly. The ever looming threat of that being even a possibility left Jason and Andrew with little choice sadly.
If we had been playing well and losing, may have helped. But some of the recent performances have been dire and i have felt that my season ticket was a chore last season and into this again after a positive and optimistic arrival at the 2023/24 season.
I am sad as PH is a decent man and we have had some sublime and happy times in both his reigns
Always welcome back here Paul when you ever re-visit (as an opponent or sat with AB in the Smiths Stand)
The recent form and events wont over shadow the positive spells you gave us and how 2 promotions saved the club
Ideally we want NEED a manager with an attacking mentality who can utilise all the forwards we have. I think one of the problems we had with the backroom was that every single one of them was a defender in their playing days. We have had nobody who actually had and experience of attacking football
Anyone remember that time when Stewart Watkiss was caretaker manager and apparently there were three potential next managers in the stands as we got walloped by Rotherham at that Sheffield athletics stadium? One was the infamous Mike Newell but I can't remember who the other two were. I don't know if I remember it right but I've got it in my head that one was the european manager of a minor African nation.
Obvs this has no benefit towards firing random names into the next manager cosmos.
"Lovelly stuff! not my words but the words of Shakin Stevens."
How would you people feel about trying to poach a manager from a smaller club in this league or from the National League? Derek Adams has always done well at Morecambe, they are in a good position currently yet only get 2,000 gates, their budget must be below ours? I can't see John Coleman leaving Accrington, he's part of the furniture there.
Also Dean Brennan did an excellent job at Wealdstone guiding the club to automatic promotion to the National League, he's had Barnet right up with the promotion contenders in the National League last season and this current season so far. Barnet poached him from Wealdstone.
My guess is they’ve probably been talking with people. These owners are proactive business people, not reactive. I think there will probably be an incoming sooner rather than later
Shame that Neil Ardley went to York from Solihull. Maybe Alexander is the best shout of all. Would love to see Lee carsley and jimmy floyd hasselbaink as names also touted as possibles.
But, id say the board will look at someone that’s been a manager befor. I can’t see it going down well with an untried manager
Posted this 3 weeks ago and stand by my concerns :
I fear the onslaught of Sky and TV in general (with major extensions forced upon us next season) the obscene commercialism, the selfishness and worshiping of the Premier League is causing untold damage to the soul of Real Football and its Real Football Supporters. With this in mind many of those running football clubs (ours included ? ) see no option but to at least pay lip service to so-called “modern thinking” and a ‘corporatisation’ of our clubs to the detriment of its heart & soul.
I fear in the aim to look professional/forward looking/progressive, if PH went we may see a new departure via a Director of Football/Head Coach model introduced.
I sincerely hope/wish Hurst turns it round. I fully understand every one’s frustration but ……
I’L NOW ADD, let’s have a manager and not f-ck about with fancy fashionable ideas that allegedly belong elsewhere. Bring on the red crosses.
Cowley brothers, Pete Wild or Graham Alexander for me. Hopefully the brothers before they run back to Lincoln
Town fans would hate the Cowley's or Alexander though wouldn't they ?
Even more industrial football than Hurst , even at home ; the problem is , it's ok when you are winning but if losing the fans REALLY hate it - see the Cowley's at Pompey (my local team) they wanted them gone badly and Alexander lasted short time even with those MK plastic's .
She makes winning look easy, being one of only about 3 nations who have decent women’s teams. Joining a League 2 sh#t show like us would turn her to tears within a couple of weeks of getting pelters from fans - she’s probably never had that before.
What I’m sure about is I know intercourse all about who should be the next manager. Whoever it is need us to get behind them even if it would be through clenched teeth in a Cowleys situation. I do get the feeling that the board will make the very best appointment they can. Let’s hope so.
Batch, Crombie, Moore K, Wiggington, Cumming, Waters, Bonnyman, Ford, Emson, Drinkell, Whymark. Love you all, You are the reason I'm on here. You've had help from Todd, Handyside, Futcher P, Groves, Mendonca, Macca etc etc etc. Up The Mariners!!!!!!!!!
Longshot on the former player front but throwing another hat in the ring Tommy Widdrington was great at Kings Lynn and punching up since he moved to Aldershot.
I think Hurst's ultimate downfall came because he's assembled a footballing side. Players who need the ball to feet like Conteh, Rose, Eisa, Gnahou, Wilson, even our defenders like Mullarkey. But Hurst has always struggled to create footballing teams and when he tried reverting back to his more traditional style, be didn't have the players for it.
So we need a more possession-based manager to get the most out of the team, definitely not the Cowley's or Alexander whose styles wouldn't suit our players at all.
It would be a risk, but taking on an assistant or a coach from the higher leagues who's looking for their first permanent position.
Aren’t the Cowleys a spent force? A sports science type approach of pressing football designed to generate errors from the opposition? But hasn’t everyone in the lower leagues caught up with the use of data now?
Ir makes me laugh that some are dismissing the Cowley's on the basis that they play rubbish football. That may well be true, but it’s a lot better football than the crud we’ve largely been subjected to since returning to the EFL. I doubt they’d be interested in dropping to the bottom end of L2 at this point anyway.
The reactive/proactive thing is interesting. Board could have been looking around during the last two weeks or so and if the slump continued they'd pull the trigger and make a move. I certainly hope they would consider poaching a manager away, the available-managers merry-go round has not been too fulfilling in recent years.
I think Hurst's ultimate downfall came because he's assembled a footballing side. Players who need the ball to feet like Conteh, Rose, Eisa, Gnahou, Wilson, even our defenders like Mullarkey. But Hurst has always struggled to create footballing teams and when he tried reverting back to his more traditional style, be didn't have the players for it.
So we need a more possession-based manager to get the most out of the team, definitely not the Cowley's or Alexander whose styles wouldn't suit our players at all.
It would be a risk, but taking on an assistant or a coach from the higher leagues who's looking for their first permanent position.
I also like the look of Parkinson at Altrincham.
That's what I find strange - he went away from all his core principles .
Why was that - Fan pressure , board pressure , just wanting to be different . I would be genuinely interested, to ask him that question -- signing technical players when he's had so much success with limited one's or at least built around them (see Jon Nolan).
It's almost like he was someone bored with their job so he thought 'f*ck it ' give it a real go to be a bit different , maybe the owners gave him that confidence - lasting 20 games on that run suggests so maybe.
Anyone remember that time when Stewart Watkiss was caretaker manager and apparently there were three potential next managers in the stands as we got walloped by Rotherham at that Sheffield athletics stadium? One was the infamous Mike Newell but I can't remember who the other two were. I don't know if I remember it right but I've got it in my head that one was the european manager of a minor African nation.
Obvs this has no benefit towards firing random names into the next manager cosmos.
That's what I find strange - he went away from all his core principles .
Why was that - Fan pressure , board pressure , just wanting to be different . I would be genuinely interested, to ask him that question -- signing technical players when he's had so much success with limited one's or at least built around them (see Jon Nolan).
The recruitment guy? Too many cooks? Increased budget? Data telling him he was doing it all wrong even though he'd had previous success?
We will obviously never know but it goes to show there will never be a set formula for football management.
Shame that Neil Ardley went to York from Solihull. Maybe Alexander is the best shout of all. Would love to see Lee carsley and jimmy floyd hasselbaink as names also touted as possibles.
But, id say the board will look at someone that’s been a manager befor. I can’t see it going down well with an untried manager
I was just about to post, I bet Ardley is wishing he hadn't gone to York especially as having just watched some of their game this evening they look really crap.
My guess is they’ve probably been talking with people. These owners are proactive business people, not reactive. I think there will probably be an incoming sooner rather than later
Just watched Stockwood’s interview on YouTube, and he said that would have been disrespectful to Paul, though he could be lying I suppose.
Just watched Stockwood’s interview on YouTube, and he said that would have been disrespectful to Paul, though he could be lying I suppose.
I wouldn't say lying, but sounding people out through contacts will have been done I'm sure. We can't afford to take an age, most other clubs around us picked up points and will be buoyed by that. Its a mess but let's hope we get out of it.
Proper FOOTBALL manager PLEASE. BIG NO to Cowley/Alexander types who will continue to bore us to death with SET hoofball.
'I walked in the dressing room. The window was open and I thought that a sea fret had got in. Then I saw smoke billowing from a pipe in the corner of the room...it was my centre-forward. He looked seven stone wet through. He went on to score thirty-odd goals that season.' Lawrie McMenemy on encountering the legend that was Matt Tees.
The recruitment guy? Too many cooks? Increased budget? Data telling him he was doing it all wrong even though he'd had previous success?
We will obviously never know but it goes to show there will never be a set formula for football management.
He 'survived ' quite a while in relative terms though didn't he just doing it his way - those things that you mentioned are interesting aswell - what positive/negative difference it made to Hurst /Town going forward and that they may well contradict each other . Time will tell won't it .
He 'survived ' quite a while in relative terms though didn't he just doing it his way - those things that you mentioned are interesting aswell - what positive/negative difference it made to Hurst /Town going forward and that they may well contradict each other . Time will tell won't it .
Indeed. The data analysts, recruitment guy and the extra staff might be spot on with the next manager. Or not as the case may be.
It's the current equivalent of Fenty heaping praise on Scott and Hurst because they could use a computer but a manager that suits these players rather than suiting a spreadsheet will work wonders I'm sure.
No offence to anyone, but I’d argue the majority of town fans would struggle to name 20 people who’ve held a football manager’s job in the last 12 months, never mind their relative strengths and weaknesses.
I’d just like someone who gives the players a bit of confidence and who doesn’t go into games endlessly talking up the opposition.
It’s going to be interesting to see who those linked are going to be. Plenty of experience out there that’s for sure. Some have managed big teams while others have had more of a grounding in the lower echelons of the football league.
With JF I never new what/who was going to come next but, now we have, what I would class as proper educated town fans making the decisions (and that’s at no detriment to JF) it’s going to be interesting the process that JS/AP/DC take. Will there be recommendations made to them by players and agents etc or will they do their own due diligence and have people in their sights already?
But, I tell you what, it’s never dull being a town supporter!
It’s going to be interesting to see who those linked are going to be. Plenty of experience out there that’s for sure. Some have managed big teams while others have had more of a grounding in the lower echelons of the football league.
With JF I never new what/who was going to come next but, now we have, what I would class as proper educated town fans making the decisions (and that’s at no detriment to JF) it’s going to be interesting the process that JS/AP/DC take. Will there be recommendations made to them by players and agents etc or will they do their own due diligence and have people in their sights already?
But, I tell you what, it’s never dull being a town supporter!
That is having a pop at JF though. For all his faults, appointing Jolley was a brave decision and ultimately one that kept us up. Similarly here, I hope we get someone different....not someone off the roundabout like the PE teacher Cowley.
We’re 21st in the 4th Division I just want someone who’ll stop us defending like bell ends and keep us in the EFL. The Champaign football can come next season.
Oh yeah I’d also like someone who’ll be ruthless in January and move on a few players who just aren’t good enough in terms of attitude & application.
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
No offence to anyone, but I’d argue the majority of town fans would struggle to name 20 people who’ve held a football manager’s job in the last 12 months, never mind their relative strengths and weaknesses.
I’d just like someone who gives the players a bit of confidence and who doesn’t go into games endlessly talking up the opposition.
I have not got a clue , that's the thing now with such a high turnover of managers isn't it .
Brian Horton , Steve Bruce and Joe Kinnear I remember .Not much hope of those boys or big Sam .
Keep posting random names out there but Luke Garrad from Boreham Wood would be a great poach. I also feel Kevin Phillips deserves a chance in the EFL not sure what kind of football he plays but good record at South Shields surely attack minded, bloody give him a player/manager role
Can not see Jason & Andrew working with the Cowley's
I think it's safe to say that whoever comes in will have a 100% buy in' to the project, to the data, to the A.I. ,to the philosophy. and i'm convinced they have 1 or 2 names already identified - if you've had PH on notice for 4-6 weeks, there's no way that 1878 haven't been using the FIFA guy, 21st group n their original consultant to scope out targets. I think it will be someone left field already in management , like (but not) Limbrick / Williamson or a young ,go ahead, dynamic, , innovative under 23 coach. I wouldn't mind betting they'll announce the name and we all go 'who the feck is he?'
Yoda, do you think women should be involved in men’s football? In any capacity, be it manager, coach, CEO, owner, back office, front office, maintenance, physio, doctor, stats bod, floodlight bulb replacer etc?
If it’s a yes, you can’t have Steve Evans at your club.
I mean, Geoff Broome had a great record at Solaglas/Humbertherm but you wouldn’t make him Town’s youth team coach would you? Actually, knowing you Yoda, you probably would.
I think it's safe to say that whoever comes in will have a 100% buy in' to the project, to the data, to the A.I. ,to the philosophy. and i'm convinced they have 1 or 2 names already identified - if you've had PH on notice for 4-6 weeks, there's no way that 1878 haven't been using the FIFA guy, 21st group n their original consultant to scope out targets. I think it will be someone left field already in management , like (but not) Limbrick / Williamson or a young ,go ahead, dynamic, , innovative under 23 coach. I wouldn't mind betting they'll announce the name and we all go 'who the feck is he?'
I really hope it isn't an u23 manager, would be such a huge gamble with our EFL status that in my opinion we can't afford to take.
Micheal Duff Graham Alexander Nathan Jones John Eustace
Please Please not the Cowley's (who will interview well, so please be warned owners) Or anyone completely underwhelming like this terrible list below Jolly Holloway Bignot Slade Come on Town - no more National League - not again
Hasselbaink - don’t think he would leave England set up now he’s one of Southgate’s coaches probably on a good screw too.
Graham Alexander - Probably one of the more notable names on the list and would have been pining for him before MK move. Good record in the past and managed the noisy neighbours to great success. Not sure on his brand of football mine.
Leam Richardson - Another name that’s been banded and I don’t really know that much about him if I’m honest other than a short spell in management.
Gary Bowyer - Managed at this level before and managed to get Blackpool out of the mess and then went to the circus that is Salford. Probably install some grit into the team.
My son is a Wycombe Wanderers fan as he has lived in Bucks all his life. Naturally I’m very disappointed with him for that and obviously he’s been taken out of my will!!
However he said that Ainsworth did wonders for many years at WW and would do a great job for us. He also said that the football won’t be Brazil in the 1970’s but he’d win us a lot of games. Ainsworth is a northerner too, but I do wonder whether firstly he may want a complete break away from football for a while and secondly would come to an outpost like Grimsby? Time will tell but he will no doubt be on the radar of Jason and Andrew.
Thanks Paul some great memories from both his spells. I was really hoping it wouldn't come to this. However we've played some really unattractive football lately. I went to doncaster today thinking if we didn't win he'd be gone. I didn't think it would be so soon after the game though. All the best Paul.
But pretty much failed in every managerial post he’s held, pity as loved him as a player but that’s not a prerequisite to be our next Manager.
It’s a very difficult task and on other threads posters have said how the majority of fans were happy with the appointments of Newell, Bignot, Jolley and Hollowhead so relying on our recommendations is a non starter.
As I’ve said previously who had heard of the Ipswich and Plymouth managers before their appointment and success?
Of the names mentioned on this thread I like Eustace, Leamouth Richardson and probably Kevin Philips but after watching numerous episodes of ex-players being interviewed on Under the Cosh it’s clear most of us don’t have a clue what goes on behind the scenes and what some of these managers are really like, quite frightening!,
My view is it would be Unwise to Choose a B List celeb Ex Player (Phillips) Similarly a celeb style pundit (Holloway for example) Or someone with ex town connection (groves) We need someone whose track record wins more matches than he loses Come on Town!!
Seeing a lot of names I used to sign on CM01-02, Michael Duff, Wade Elliott, Gareth Ainsworth lol. Another old linked managers name to throw to the list….Ronnie Moore
Just to make it clear, I’m not suggesting Moore lol.
Baldrick ! The only impression you can do is that of a man with no talent !! GTFC team 09/10 - Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick.
One manager, doing well, not too popular with the town fans though, is Andy Woodman at Bromley. Wouldn’t like him myself.
Baldrick ! The only impression you can do is that of a man with no talent !! GTFC team 09/10 - Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick.
Love these threads, glad we haven’t had to have many of them. Few names just for the hell of it.
Phil Parkinson - Altrincham (my personal early choice) Leam Richardson - Formally of Wigan Danny Cowley - People say they dislike his football, I’d argue it’s irrelevant really as we’d all enjoy winning football matches tbh. Damien Duff - Shelbourne (random one) Luke Garrad - Boreham Wood - done ok there, stock not as high as maybe once was thought.
Most of these are younger and/or upcoming types which I think is something the board will be looking for. Would like us to avoid the same old name types that are always on the manager revolving wheel.
They’ve obviously been aware of this issue a while - I’d be surprised if they didn’t have someone in mind (or a shortlist of a couple of names) already.
Julio Arca doing a good job at south shields. Luke Garrard had been doing a remarkable job at Boreham Wood and Mark Cooper has yeovil flying high in National League South table. All youngish managers cutting their teeth at 2 leagues below?
Seeing a lot of names I used to sign on CM01-02, Michael Duff, Wade Elliott, Gareth Ainsworth lol. Another old linked managers name to throw to the list….Ronnie Moore
Just to make it clear, I’m not suggesting Moore lol.
It's a shame Maxim Tsigalko is dead.
Joey Barton must be on Jason & Andrew's radar. He's a socialist.
I posted the betting list for the next Bradford manager recently, and the only name who made any appeal for me was Leam Richardson.
tashee69's mention of Andy Woodman got me looking at Wiki, and he reads OK, but he turned down the chance of a L1 relegation fight with Gillingham in January last season.
If Danny Cowley comes here I shall take up embroidery on Saturday afternoons to hopefully help me forget it.
Edit: have just seen pizzzza's post...some of those names scare me!
I wouldn't object to Harris, if we could tempt him north of the Watford gap. Alexander, Richardson, Robinson and the Cowleys are also good shouts. Gary Bowyer would be a coup but unlikely. Sadly I'm not up to speed with what's going on in the national league (and hopefully that won't be our problem again!) So couldn't comment on whoever the up and coming managers are there.
Hopefully the club does it's due diligence and get this right.
Jesus, are you gonna indulge or join the headbangers?
Jason & Andrew would be stupid not to consider any manager who's recently won promotion out of this division and comfortably kept his club up the following season. Especially so if they are now out of work. And that doesn't just go for Joey Barton. I'd include any successful manager on that list, even the one down at Stevenage who so many Town fans consider we are too good and too righteous to have as our manager.
I'm sick to death of having to support a bottom half of League 2 club. I couldn't care how me get promotion(s), I just want to see Grimsby Town as a respected smaller club punching above our weight again,
I'd include any successful manager on that list, even the one down at Stevenage who so many Town fans consider we are too good and too righteous to have as our manager.
If being good and righteous means not having a sex offender (allegedly) as manager of my club, then yes, I guess I am good and righteous.
Julio Arca doing a good job at south shields. Luke Garrard had been doing a remarkable job at Boreham Wood and Mark Cooper has yeovil flying high in National League South table. All youngish managers cutting their teeth at 2 leagues below?
Cooper got Yeovil relegated from the NL last season and he is no spring chicken either.
Phil Parkinson is an obvious one but it strikes me as a risk, this is a much bigger job than anything he’s had previously & it’s not like his Alty side are outstanding. A good start this though season no doubt.
Leam Richardson looks to fit the bill, managed at a good level & bags of experience coaching.
I can’t see the Cowleys or Karl Robinson coming anywhere near the job.
I’d like to think we could push the boat out for somebody, we all know the potential and I think we all know there’s good potential in this squad with a couple of additions. Unfortunately from the outside looking in, we don’t look all that attractive right now.
Looks like Phil Parkinson is one of the few that fits the likely profile
The last 3 seasons Altrincham have finished 17th, 14th & 17th in the National League. They started this season very well and are 5th, but they've only won 7 out of 17 this season. He's overseen 48 wins from 149 National League matches since winning his second promotion via the play-offs in the COVID curtailed season. Is a manager with a 32.2% win record in the division below where we are a good choice? Especially as he never played professional football.
If we're not going to appoint a proven winner such as Steve Evans, Danny Cowley or whoever, I think we need someone who's played professional at a decent level, knows the lower leagues fairly well and who has a good knowledge of recent under 18s to under 23s football.
How about BIlly Sharp? Why wouldn't he want to give up a final year in Los Angeles to move to Cleethorpes and begin his coaching career?
Jason & Andrew would be stupid not to consider any manager who's recently won promotion out of this division and comfortably kept his club up the following season. Especially so if they are now out of work. And that doesn't just go for Joey Barton. I'd include any successful manager on that list, even the one down at Stevenage who so many Town fans consider we are too good and too righteous to have as our manager.
I'm sick to death of having to support a bottom half of League 2 club. I couldn't care how me get promotion(s), I just want to see Grimsby Town as a respected smaller club punching above our weight again,
Right, and that’s fair enough, but that’s not my point. Why are you saying we should consider someone because they are a ‘socialist’? This is a sticky little puddle of nonsense that only 3 or 4 dimwits on here like splashing around in, and who’ve generally shown themselves to not even understand basic concepts. It’s completely irrelevant.
My son is a Wycombe Wanderers fan as he has lived in Bucks all his life. Naturally I’m very disappointed with him for that and obviously he’s been taken out of my will!!
However he said that Ainsworth did wonders for many years at WW and would do a great job for us. He also said that the football won’t be Brazil in the 1970’s but he’d win us a lot of games. Ainsworth is a northerner too, but I do wonder whether firstly he may want a complete break away from football for a while and secondly would come to an outpost like Grimsby? Time will tell but he will no doubt be on the radar of Jason and Andrew.
Interesting one GA. In the week I had a meeting with a chap who used to be on the board at Wycombe and is really good friends with GA.We qwre talking football and I was saying how we needed a win vs Col U etc he had a lot of Grimsby connections and said GA would be a great fit for us. By all accounts one of those guys who takes an interest in everyone like the groundsman tea lady youth team to his prize centre forward. Not sure about the timings right but he would surely lift players and fans alike if we could nab him.
Graham Alexander ticks a lot of boxes for me. Experience managing at this level as well as the leagues above and below. 2 promotions on his CV and seems to have done well at some point in all of his appointments, including this season with MK, picking up manager of the month for August. He’s been unfairly sacked by a couple of clubs, leaving both Scunthorpe and Salford whilst they were 5th in the league, we know what happened to scunny after that, and even Gary Neville later admitted it was a huge mistake to sack him. He did ok at Motherwell only being sacked because they were knocked out the Europa league by Sligo Rovers. He’s not been out of work long either, having only just left MK so he’ll still be in touch with the game and familiar with the league and maybe even us.
If he’s interested, I think he should be our man.
"Falls to Arnold... Arnold! That's it! Thats it! He's sealed it! Grimsby Town are back in the football league!!! Just a minute to go and Nathan Arnold makes it 3-1! Look at the scenes behind the goal! Look at the relief! The agony is finally over!!!"
John Tondeur - Wembley Stadium Sunday 15th May 2016
Right, and that’s fair enough, but that’s not my point. Why are you saying we should consider someone because they are a ‘socialist’? This is a sticky little puddle of nonsense that only 3 or 4 dimwits on here like splashing around in, and who’ve generally shown themselves to not even understand basic concepts. It’s completely irrelevant.
What are you talking about? It was a joke about Joey Barton having the same political opinion as our owners (especially Jason). I'm a socialist, Labour Party member and have been a candidate a couple of times (in unwinnable seats only as I have no desire to be a councillor). Being a socialist isn't an insult.
But in all seriousness, when Jason talks about values what do you think that is code for? Here's a link to give you a clue...
Interesting one GA. In the week I had a meeting with a chap who used to be on the board at Wycombe and is really good friends with GA.We qwre talking football and I was saying how we needed a win vs Col U etc he had a lot of Grimsby connections and said GA would be a great fit for us. By all accounts one of those guys who takes an interest in everyone like the groundsman tea lady youth team to his prize centre forward. Not sure about the timings right but he would surely lift players and fans alike if we could nab him.
I recall when we lost at Wycombe Ainsworth took the time to clap the Town end pointing upwards which signified he believed we’d stay up, maybe we need some belief like that now. He wouldn’t come here though.
Find the Parkinson theory funny, seems like it’s the classic Fishy case of bigging up someone who’s bang average.
I suspect we’ll have a new manager quickly as Jason said they had a clear plan, I also suspect it will be someone who isn’t a big name or someone we’ve never had on the radar.
Just wonder how much involvement the bloke who works/worked in the Middle East who joined as a non exec will have in the process?
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
What are you talking about? It was a joke about Joey Barton having the same political opinion as our owners (especially Jason). I'm a socialist, Labour Party member and have been a candidate a couple of times (in unwinnable seats only as I have no desire to be a councillor). Being a socialist isn't an insult.
But in all seriousness, when Jason talks about values what do you think that is code for? Here's a link to give you a clue...
What are you talking about? It was a joke about Joey Barton having the same political opinion as our owners (especially Jason). I'm a socialist, Labour Party member and have been a candidate a couple of times (in unwinnable seats only as I have no desire to be a councillor). Being a socialist isn't an insult.
But in all seriousness, when Jason talks about values what do you think that is code for? Here's a link to give you a clue...
If you think Jason & Andrew would appoint somebody who doesn't share their values, like Sol Campbell for example. you're deluded.
Stockwood must be the only socialist to have written a book calling for a capitalist economy! But we digress…
Some of the squad should see this as a new opportunity and a fresh start, particularly those who have been continually frozen out. If a new manager can’t get a tune out of Alex Hunt I will finally concede I was wrong on him.
The last 3 seasons Altrincham have finished 17th, 14th & 17th in the National League. They started this season very well and are 5th, but they've only won 7 out of 17 this season. He's overseen 48 wins from 149 National League matches since winning his second promotion via the play-offs in the COVID curtailed season. Is a manager with a 32.2% win record in the division below where we are a good choice? Especially as he never played professional football.
The fifth word you wrote there sums up his achievement.
Altrincham.
They're bloody tiny!
Those league places and win ratios are one hell of an achievement. Totally unrealistic to be expecting much more at a club of that size.
Of course winning is the overarching objective but I think 1878 are smart enough to recognise that one of the biggest criticisms thrown at Hurst was his style of football. I don't think we'll be going for a long ball percentages type manager.
The fifth word you wrote there sums up his achievement.
Altrincham.
They're bloody tiny!
Those league places and win ratios are one hell of an achievement. Totally unrealistic to be expecting much more at a club of that size.
Of course winning is the overarching objective but I think 1878 are smart enough to recognise that one of the biggest criticisms thrown at Hurst was his style of football. I don't think we'll be going for a long ball percentages type manager.
There have been plenty of tiny clubs in the NL since 2020 and many of them have done better than finishing between 14th & 17th.
Paul Tidsdale might be a good option. Over a period of seasons kept improving Exeter with an attractive brand of football before eventually winning promotion to league one. Whether he would move up north is another question though?
Paul Tidsdale might be a good option. Over a period of seasons kept improving Exeter with an attractive brand of football before eventually winning promotion to league one. Whether he would move up north is another question though?
Long time ago now, had 3 failed appointments since his Exeter days
"Falls to Arnold... Arnold! That's it! Thats it! He's sealed it! Grimsby Town are back in the football league!!! Just a minute to go and Nathan Arnold makes it 3-1! Look at the scenes behind the goal! Look at the relief! The agony is finally over!!!"
John Tondeur - Wembley Stadium Sunday 15th May 2016
Whoever we get as the next manager, the first thing they need to do is make us hard to beat and stop leaking as many goals as we have. Not going to be pretty initially but we need to get back to basics before we can even start thinking/fantasing about playing in an attractive/attacking style of play. Unless people think we are going get out of our current predicament with a "you score three we'll score four" approach.
No names from me, haven't a clue who our next manager should be. I am slightly surprised to see a couple of Championship Managers mentioned above. Surely we are not an attractive proposition for them?
Anyway, I'm very sad to see Paul go, and wish him all the best for the future, I'm sure he did his best for the club, but unfortunately, this time around it wasn't good enough. UTM!
I find bookies odds market for new manager strange. JS and AP know the result/winner - if I were them I would get my mates to back the chosen candidate get a few mill in the coffers lol
Whoever we get as the next manager, the first thing they need to do is make us hard to beat and stop leaking as many goals as we have. Not going to be pretty initially but we need to get back to basics before we can even start thinking/fantasing about playing in an attractive/attacking style of play. Unless people think we are going get out of our current predicament with a "you score three we'll score four" approach.
Looking at yesterday’s team, it was a ‘back to basics’ approach. No flair in midfield and very little created. Most of our goals this season have either been Eisa worldies or feeding off scraps. Our set piece threat is nigh on zero because the better dead ball exponents aren’t in the team and our current midfield don’t break the lines.
One manager, doing well, not too popular with the town fans though, is Andy Woodman at Bromley. Wouldn’t like him myself.
Seems odd to quote myself, but would just like to clear up one thing. The 11 people who red crossed me so far, does that mean they WOULD like him as I said I wouldn’t like him.
Baldrick ! The only impression you can do is that of a man with no talent !! GTFC team 09/10 - Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick.
Looking at yesterday’s team, it was a ‘back to basics’ approach. No flair in midfield and very little created. Most of our goals this season have either been Eisa worldies or feeding off scraps. Our set piece threat is nigh on zero because the better dead ball exponents aren’t in the team and our current midfield don’t break the lines.
I think some people close to the club have lost their minds. John Tondeur talking about another game where we have played well, and the chairman saying it hasn't been that bad.
For weeks Blundell Park has been like a morgue. No excitement at all watching an unbalanced and misfiring team either create very little, or when they do leak goals at the other end.
We have been shocking really, with hardly any players showing their true potential. Whatever the reason for the malaise we have a chance now to re-set and get us moving.
Rumours are rumours i know and should/will be taken with a pinch of salt, but yesterday heard a group sat next to me discussing( yes I was ear wigging tbh) about the situation. Apparently they'd been given a snippet of info, Hurst knew his fate before the game yesterday, and the club have gone for a DOF and are in talks with York over Ardley... Like I said before you all ooozie 45mm me, its a rumour.
Here’s a list of Managers out of work, some of them maybe a little far fetched. Listed below that is a list of managers where it’s plausible Town could approach them, not including managers who are either inexperienced or have just been appointed to their current position.
Unemployed
Nathan Jones Neil Warnock Chris Wilder Steve Bruce John Eustace Shota Arveladze Gary Rowett Paul Ince Garry Monk Mark Fotheringham Kolo Toure Brian Eastick Alan Pardew Leam Richardson Paul Lambert Robbie Fowler Danny Cowley Joey Barton Sam Ricketts Scott Brown Steve Cotterill Mark Kennedy Dean Holden Karl Robinson Shaun Derry Wade Elliott David Artell Graham Alexander Mark Hughes Jody Morris Gary McSheffrey Neil Harris Paul Tisdale Ben Garner Keith Curle John Sheridan Lee Bradbury Ian Dawes Kevin Blackwell Danny Schofield Richard Chaplow Stuart Campbell Keith Hill David Unsworth Dean Keates Robbie Neilson Callum Davidson Mark McGhee Billy Dodds Gary Bowyer Ian McCall David Hopkin Kevin Phillips Bobby Mimms Tim Flowers Roger Johnson Chris Hargreaves
Employed
John Coleman (Accrington) Pete Wild (Barrow) Tommy Widdrington (Aldershot) Dean Brennan (Barnet) Luke Garrard (Boreham Wood) Andy Woodman (Bromley) Paul Cook (Chesterfield) Dennis Kutrieb (Ebbsfleet) Russell Penn (Kidderminster) Alan Devonshire (Maidenhead) Kevin Maher (Southend) Darren Sarll (Woking) Andy Peaks (Tamworth) Phil Parkinson (Altrincham)
Wow , Gainsboro_Mariner been busy I see. I didn't check but have you mentioned ex Trinity Manager Curtis Woodhouse? I mean he might not be the best manager, but which player is going to argue with him?
I'm more interested in the interim manager. Is it Neil or some committee? Monday we will know I assume.
Seems odd to quote myself, but would just like to clear up one thing. The 11 people who red crossed me so far, does that mean they WOULD like him as I said I wouldn’t like him.
I’ll take your Andy Woodman (for ridiculousness) and raise it to a Jimmy Dean(s)…
The fifth word you wrote there sums up his achievement.
Altrincham.
They're bloody tiny!
Those league places and win ratios are one hell of an achievement. Totally unrealistic to be expecting much more at a club of that size.
Of course winning is the overarching objective but I think 1878 are smart enough to recognise that one of the biggest criticisms thrown at Hurst was his style of football. I don't think we'll be going for a long ball percentages type manager.
Without being too pedantic, the fifth word was ‘have’
I’ll take your Andy Woodman (for ridiculousness) and raise it to a Jimmy Dean(s)…
You’ve got 11 red crosses to beat 🤣🤣 and that was for saying I DIDNT want him but he’s a manager doing well Thing is, if we’d not had the dealings with him that we’d had, he would have been a good shout. FA Trophy win, reached play offs last year and currently doing well in the league, 3rd.
Baldrick ! The only impression you can do is that of a man with no talent !! GTFC team 09/10 - Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick.
Wow , Gainsboro_Mariner been busy I see. I didn't check but have you mentioned ex Trinity Manager Curtis Woodhouse? I mean he might not be the best manager, but which player is going to argue with him?
I'm more interested in the interim manager. Is it Neil or some committee? Monday we will know I assume.
Easy to find if you check the right sites
Trinity was the pinnacle of his managerial career so far and he didn’t too much,
The Gateshead manager has overachieved for 5 years. He also got the best from Conteh when he was player of the season (2 awards). Unfortunately, he has recently been poached by MK Dons, along with his team.
Bryan Klug is well known to older fans, being from Grimsby. He has been at Ipswich longterm. Currently head of youth and player development and/or reserve team manager. Tasked with bringing players into the first team.
An Ipswich fan said that he is very highly thought of. (Ironically, the opposite of how Hurst is still regarded there). He seems to like a key support role. Might be good for a managerial role at a smaller club. In the town where he started his football?
He has been seen as a safe pair of hands when appointed acting first team manager. He is 63 I think, but young compared to Hodgson and Warnock.
He was instrumental in Ipswich winning the FA Youth Cup in 2005.
Ipswich are continuing their success after promotion.
It really doesn’t matter who gets the job because the same people who’ve moaned at the last 30 managers will be moaning about them in a month’s time anyway. These people are the ones who think football will be played as though it’s some sort of show reel of highlights either because they’re from the FIFA generation or because they’ve got some favourable memories of past Town sides.
It really doesn’t matter who gets the job because the same people who’ve moaned at the last 30 managers will be moaning about them in a month’s time anyway. These people are the ones who think football will be played as though it’s some sort of show reel of highlights either because they’re from the FIFA generation or because they’ve got some favourable memories of past Town sides.
Results business first and foremost but having a coach who wants to take the game to the opposing team rather than sitting back will be a good starting point for me anyway
What the intercourse makes Leam Richardson remotely qualified for the Town job?
Some bits from his Wiki page:
Richardson was appointed as the permanent manager of [Wigan] on 21 April 2021 with three games still remaining. Richardson confirmed that Cook, who had recently been appointed manager of Ipswich Town, had asked him to join him in Suffolk as his assistant again, but he declined so he could remain at Wigan. He insisted however that there was no ill-will on either side and that they remain on good terms. He was able to keep Wigan up, avoiding relegation to League Two.
In November 2021 Wigan striker Charlie Wyke collapsed during training after suffering a cardiac arrest. Following his discharge from hospital Wyke praised Richardson's swift initiation of CPR saying: "...my life has been saved by the actions of the gaffer [Leam Richardson] and the club doctor Jonathan Tobin..."
During his tenure at Wigan Athletic the clubs owners recognised Richardson's outstanding achievements by naming the South stand the 'Leam Richardson' stand.
On 24 April 2022, Richardson was named the 2021–22 EFL League One Manager of the Season at the league's annual award ceremony. Later that month Richardson led Wigan to promotion into the Championship as they finished the season as League One champions.
Whoever the "data" recommends I hope they are better than some of the players that we were saddled with in the closed season. Someone ruthless enough to axe the non-performers and put some strong leadership back in the team. We have been too "nice" in what is a very rough-and-tumble division. I hate to say this but Stockport should be the model to emulate.
Just looked at the odds board Danny Cowley 5/1 Phil Parkinson 6/1 Graham Alexander 6/1 David Artell 6/1 Leam Richardson 8/1 Gary Bowyer 8/1 Neil Redfearn 10/1 Nel Harris 10/1 Steve Cotterill 12/1 Pete Wild 12/1 Michael Pickett 12/1
Here’s 10 names that spring to mind 1. Neil Harris (if he would move up north) 2. Pete Wild 3. Phil Parkinson 4. Gareth Ainsworth 5. Leam Richardson 6. Graham Alexander 7. Cowleys 8. Luke Garrad 9. David Artell 10. Keith Hill
Here’s 10 names that spring to mind 1. Neil Harris (if he would move up north) 2. Pete Wild 3. Phil Parkinson 4. Gareth Ainsworth 5. Leam Richardson 6. Graham Alexander 7. Cowleys 8. Luke Garrad 9. David Artell 10. Keith Hill
Hill who achieved a 7percent win ratio whilst taking Scunthorpe to their relegation, are you mad?
My son is a Wycombe Wanderers fan as he has lived in Bucks all his life. Naturally I’m very disappointed with him for that and obviously he’s been taken out of my will!!
However he said that Ainsworth did wonders for many years at WW and would do a great job for us. He also said that the football won’t be Brazil in the 1970’s but he’d win us a lot of games. Ainsworth is a northerner too, but I do wonder whether firstly he may want a complete break away from football for a while and secondly would come to an outpost like Grimsby? Time will tell but he will no doubt be on the radar of Jason and Andrew.
One of my most despised teams so good that you no longer have him in your will. I can send my full name, if you want a substitute
You’ve got 11 red crosses to beat 🤣🤣 and that was for saying I DIDNT want him but he’s a manager doing well Thing is, if we’d not had the dealings with him that we’d had, he would have been a good shout. FA Trophy win, reached play offs last year and currently doing well in the league, 3rd.
And all that whilst barely being able to speak English - we need to give him the job…
Just looked at the odds board Danny Cowley 5/1 Phil Parkinson 6/1 Graham Alexander 6/1 David Artell 6/1 Leam Richardson 8/1 Gary Bowyer 8/1 Neil Redfearn 10/1 Nel Harris 10/1 Steve Cotterill 12/1 Pete Wild 12/1 Michael Pickett 12/1
May as well stare at tea leaves or a horoscope. Bookies haven't got any more idea than we have.
Results business first and foremost but having a coach who wants to take the game to the opposing team rather than sitting back will be a good starting point for me anyway
I agree with what that but I think with how wobbly we are at the back and in goal at the minute we wouldn’t get the results required playing that way currently.
I would like to see Wayne Burnett offered the job as our next manager. He has done a great job as Spurs U23 manager and likes to bring on the young players. He would be a perfect choice, played under Buckley and plays the Buckley way. Also knows the club well from his time here when we were so successful... A perfect choice, come on board this makes sense...
I would like to see Wayne Burnett offered the job as our next manager. He has done a great job as Spurs U23 manager and likes to bring on the young players. He would be a perfect choice, played under Buckley and plays the Buckley way. Also knows the club well from his time here when we were so successful... A perfect choice, come on board this makes sense...
His one & only venture into management was a complete disaster
Jimmy Dean, when I first heard his interviews on RH I thought he was way out of his depth and couldn’t string a sentence together without adding the word ‘mate’ in it but he now talks like he actually knows what he is talking about, maybe not for us this time but you never know 🤣🤣
Dead Eye Dobbin stood motionless waiting, waiting, waiting for the ball to arrive. Back came the right foot, Down came the right foot, Bang ! Headlines around the world as the ball flew into the very top right hand corner of the goal.( Jim Dobbin scoring in the 89th minute for Town against Newcastle United away 24/10/1992 )
Jimmy Dean, when I first heard his interviews on RH I thought he was way out of his depth and couldn’t string a sentence together without adding the word ‘mate’ in it but he now talks like he actually knows what he is talking about, maybe not for us this time but you never know 🤣🤣
Please god no. The bloke is an obnoxious imbecile.has quite an 'interesting' back story as well ( allegedly) .very much doubt would be to 1878s tastes
Put it this way - whoever it is, I have more faith in this board than in Fenty in getting it right.
Personally, don’t see the appeal in the Alty bloke. Gareth Ainsworth seems the type of guy who would only be successful at Wycombe and nowhere else. He’s a bit of a David Brent type character (maybe it’s the leather jacket and being in a band I can’t get past lol).
Hull seem to be going steady with Liam Rosenior. That was an interesting appointment at the time. I wonder if that’s a strategy we’ll look to emulate?
Leam Richardson would be my (blind) choice at this very early stage. A promotion from L1 on his CV in tough circumstances. Must admit, my knowledge is limited, I’m hoping and expecting 1878’s to be very thorough!
"Don't shine that light in my face, mate - I've just lost a pint of blood."
Leam Richardson would be my choice from the ones mentioned so far, won a championship at league 1. I've been supporting town for 36 years and we haven't won a championship in that entire time, Buckley mk 1 league 2 was about the closest I think and we were quite far off even then.
Nathan Rooney is an interesting one. I'd never heard of him before but just had a quick Google and appears he's worked under lots of managers, building up experience but is still in his early 30s. Now doing very well in Gibraltar.
The interesting part was the below article we're he says he specifically decided he wanted to be a head coach and works under Dean Holdsworth who's director. Sounds very similar to what we're looking to do.
I'm not suggesting we will or should be looking at him, but I think it's the kind of appointment we're likely to see, except maybe someone from a premier or championship under 23 team.
Whoever the "data" recommends I hope they are better than some of the players that we were saddled with in the closed season. Someone ruthless enough to axe the non-performers and put some strong leadership back in the team. We have been too "nice" in what is a very rough-and-tumble division. I hate to say this but Stockport should be the model to emulate.
I don't think we have any where near the amount of money they have available to them.
Another betting sites punt at Next Grimsby Town Manager., Same names cropping up. Odds Probability Danny Cowley 5/1 16.7% Phil Parkinson 6/1 14.3% Graham Alexander 6/1 14.3% David Artell 6/1 14.3% Leam Richardson 8/1 11.1%
Also to cheer you up. League Two Relegation 23/24 Odds Probability Tranmere 10/11 52.4% Sutton 1/1 50.0% Forest Green 13/8 38.1% Colchester 13/2 13.3% Harrogate 13/2 13.3% Grimsby 15/2 11.8%
Phil Parkinson has to be the number one choice . We’ll have to pay Alty some compo but I think he’s our man
Yeah because his side are the outstanding side in the NL of course, absolute nonsense. The sane nonsense that said Malarky was a massive upgrade on Michee & Conteh will be sold for £1M+.
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
Yeah because his side are the outstanding side in the NL of course, absolute nonsense. The sane nonsense that said Malarky was a massive upgrade on Michee & Conteh will be sold for £1M+.
After Eastwood , Mullarkey has been our worst signing .
Highly unlikely but would love Gareth ainsworth as the new manager . Like I say unlikely to happen but I think he'd be brilliant, his energy everything about him.
Unfortunately Ainsworth's energy didn't do anything for QPR.
Even Buckley failed at West Brom. I know it doesn't make him a bad manager, but I think some of his methods are a bit quirky, from what I've read. He's certainly not cut from the same managerial cloth as many others.
A Wycombe fan once told me he thinks he won't succeed anywhere but there because he was able to grow as a manager in an environment he shaped. When he goes into other clubs, he needs to fit in, and that's not his style.
If ever Wycombe fall on hard times, he'll end up back there. A bit like how Eddie Howe had a special relationship with Bournemouth.
"Don't shine that light in my face, mate - I've just lost a pint of blood."
Unfortunately Ainsworth's energy didn't do anything for QPR.
Even Buckley failed at West Brom. I know it doesn't make him a bad manager, but I think some of his methods are a bit quirky, from what I've read. He's certainly not cut from the same managerial cloth as many others.
A Wycombe fan once told me he thinks he won't succeed anywhere but there because he was able to grow as a manager in an environment he shaped. When he goes into other clubs, he needs to fit in, and that's not his style.
If ever Wycombe fall on hard times, he'll end up back there. A bit like how Eddie Howe had a special relationship with Bournemouth.
The same with Big Sam at Bolton, when he had time to build a team, his team played attacking football. These days you are not given time to build a team, everyone wants instant sucess. Like life in general got to have everything now.
Honestly I wouldn't mind anyone so long as they have decent enough experience in league football. I just don't want a situation where relegation is even on the card come the tail end of the season
Not sure if he's been mentioned but Dean Brennan at Barnet could be a good shout. He's their head coach but actually started as director of football there. Looks like he's always been London based so may be unlikely, but has an impressive record at his last two clubs and Barnet are currently flying in the National League.
Had anybody heard of Luke Williams at Notts County before they appointed him? Look at what he's managed to do with them.
I'm not sure a 'big name' is needed such as the Cowleys etc.
Yeah, he had a disastrous 18 month spell (26.7% wins from 75 matches) as Swindon manager which resulted in their relegation to League 2. The sort of spell that would have a potential manager dismissed as rubbish by the majority on here.
Had anybody heard of Luke Williams at Notts County before they appointed him? Look at what he's managed to do with them.
I'm not sure a 'big name' is needed such as the Cowleys etc.
I've just been reading this thread and was going to bring him up. Obviously not as a suggestion for manager there's no way he's going to come here but he started with West Ham as a coach working with young offenders.
The path to becoming a successful manager in football has no straight lines and past win ratios mean nothing. It's like when the data argument comes around, some believe the data from the last game is irrelevant because THAT game has gone and the next one will be new. Same with managers, the environment they worked in, the facilities, the players, the supporting staff, even down to small personal things like commuting times or time away from family can all melt into marginal factors which affect performance.
The reality is that despite the chit chat of who will do well and why, or rather who will be crap and why, no-one - board included - has a clue how the next manager will perform. Anyone from this forum could apply and present a great idea on paper but bringing the page to life is much more a difficult challenge. The board have the challenge now of looking at everything they have available to them and leaning on industry professionals to find someone they believe will suit the short and long term strategy.
Without knowing anything in depth and so having a very amateur view on it, I like the sound of Leam Richardson from all names listed so far. Dean Brennan seems and interesting one as he's getting a tune out of a consistently under performing Barnet.
I'm probably more aligned with those who've said it will be a left-field appointment and someone younger with much more of a coaching background than managing and we may see someone of the Jolley mould, coming in from a bigger club of the coaching staff, rather than a known manager who has experience under his belt.
After Eastwood , Mullarkey has been our worst signing .
Really? Disappointing collapse in confidence yes but Pyke was not the answer to any question fans were asking. Mullarkey gives plenty of effort but Pyke just doesn't seem arsed. Ainley arrived waving his sicknote (due diligence?) and is another body in a bunch of mish mash midfielders.
I still think that the spiral of form and morale hints at off field issues. We may never know but whatever sticking plaster was put on those issues was totally ineffective.
The silence from the ITK's on this board and around the club has been deafening.
The manager search is fascinating. There are literally hundreds of highly qualified coaches out there but the key is finding one with leadership skills. As someone said earlier nobody had heard of the guy at Notts County and the same can be said for the people at Plymouth, Ipswich and many others Find a leader and he finds the right coaches The issue is that it’s a massive risk attempting to undercover a hidden gem, especially in our position and that’s why lots of clubs revert to the merry go round looking for safety Burchnall is a good example, under achieved at Notts and FGR but doing ok as first team coach at wolves. Good coach, very average leadership skills
Club isn't taking applicants for the managers position so i'm told, which leads me to believe we have a shortlist of people we want and are going after primary targets.
Club isn't taking applicants for the managers position so i'm told, which leads me to believe we have a shortlist of people we want and are going after primary targets.
Tbh I'd have been amazed if they did. Wouldn't surprise me if 1 position hasnt already been filled
Board will have 5/6 managers on a short list - business people like Jason and Andrew have said it's not a snap decision; they've been looking at this for six weeks They will almost certainly have been taking soundings before Saturday - it's perhaps not ethical but it's the way of the world and the way successful business people operate
I hope the 'data' has suggested we need more attacking football etc but I think one of the main things is to motivate the squad
I'm 62 and have seen some right old shite over the years and this squad is much better than those teams; young posters trust me!
It's the basics that need improving - be ruthless at both ends
A mate of mine said we are top three 'box to box' but bottom three in both boxes - I think that's a good summing up
Just hope a fresh face, fresh ideas, fresh energy can turn things around and soon
We’ve seen every type of perceivable manager ‘type’ over the past few years. The only one we’ve really not had is the ‘foreign’ approach (not including limbrick)
Hurst (and Scott) : up and coming managers
Holloway : big name manager
Jolley : left field coaching route
Bignot : ex high (ish) profile player
Woods : ex player
Slade : returning ex manager
The difference this time, is that I have a lot more trust in the owners than anytime over the past 20 years, in the hope that due diligence has been done. Like many on here, I was hopeful of a top 10, maybe even top 7, finish come the end of the season but now I’d take top 16!!!!!
Board will have 5/6 managers on a short list - business people like Jason and Andrew have said it's not a snap decision; they've been looking at this for six weeks They will almost certainly have been taking soundings before Saturday - it's perhaps not ethical but it's the way of the world and the way successful business people operate
I hope the 'data' has suggested we need more attacking football etc but I think one of the main things is to motivate the squad
I'm 62 and have seen some right old shite over the years and this squad is much better than those teams; young posters trust me!
It's the basics that need improving - be ruthless at both ends
A mate of mine said we are top three 'box to box' but bottom three in both boxes - I think that's a good summing up
Just hope a fresh face, fresh ideas, fresh energy can turn things around and soon
I would say bottom 3 for the final third, which is where McAtee at his best was so effective. We don’t have a natural 10 and it shows. Bottom 3 in our own box agreed but also the wide defensive positions. Hopefully the change at keeper might sort the issues in the box. Nothing gives CBs the jitters more than a keeper that is weak on decision making.
Club isn't taking applicants for the managers position so i'm told, which leads me to believe we have a shortlist of people we want and are going after primary targets.
JS understandably not wanting to sift through applications from morons who think they're the first ever person to apply for a real job referencing their Football Manager 'career'.
I would say bottom 3 for the final third, which is where McAtee at his best was so effective. We don’t have a natural 10 and it shows. Bottom 3 in our own box agreed but also the wide defensive positions. Hopefully the change at keeper might sort the issues in the box. Nothing gives CBs the jitters more than a keeper that is weak on decision making.
Agree I think we are very poor in full back positions; this gives centre backs the jitters; and then the GK situation makes the whole defence shaky Our final ball/final cross is woeful - so many times you listen to a commentary and/or watch live and I would say 8/10 are shite
That is something that has to improve very quickly
Agree I think we are very poor in full back positions; this gives centre backs the jitters; and then the GK situation makes the whole defence shaky Our final ball/final cross is woeful - so many times you listen to a commentary and/or watch live and I would say 8/10 are shite
That is something that has to improve very quickly
You are old enough to remember Charles Ekberg - his classic phrase for the first report to Humberside after ko was - “well here we are at blustery Blundell Park and Town’s defence is looking very jittery…”
Not sure if he's been mentioned but Dean Brennan at Barnet could be a good shout. He's their head coach but actually started as director of football there. Looks like he's always been London based so may be unlikely, but has an impressive record at his last two clubs and Barnet are currently flying in the National League.
Got a funny story about this.
A few weeks ago I was at Barnet's ground for a work thing. We were using one of the training pitches adjacent to the stadium. On the other training pitch was Barnet's first team squad (although they all looked so young I had to do some asking to find out whether it was the youth team or not).
At the end of the session, a stocky Irish guy calls them round. I didn't realise it was the manager (only later I found out after Googling it and noting his tracksuit initials were DB).
What I heard at this point was a list of stock phrases that any one of us could use to pass off as being a football manager. Kind of went like this:
'Good energy lads, good shape. Now, remember, this weekend... it's all about the clean sheet. I want you switched on and prepared. Win your battles. Get close to your men. Let them know they're in a game! I want to see good deliveries from set pieces, we work too hard on them on here to then intercourse them up on the day. Now, go and get your showers, we'll see you tomorrow.'
Now, I'm not knocking him as a manager because he's got Barnet second. But it makes me think... how much of football, at that level anyway, is dependent on insight, tactical nous, etc?
He spoke very passionately, he had their attention, they all seemed happy. The content of what he was saying just felt empty. I was waiting for something radical, something cutting, something clever. Nothing like that came. It was all very generic.
Makes me think football is about keeping players happy, giving them clear, simple instructions and just being open, honest and fair. Maybe Dean knows how to motivate them individually. This alone - before we even get to tactics or opposition studies - is possibly enough to achieve some measure of success in lower/non-league.
What we need is someone to come in, lift our players up off the floor, make them feel like world-beaters. Restore the confidence. Simple stuff, nothing complicated. Get them believing, get them pumped, get them fired up. That alone will get us back into mid-table. After that, maybe the nuances in tactical approaches and game management will take us to the next level.
I think Paul Groves once said that 90% of football is confidence. Someone who's a brilliant motivater, alongside a sports psychologist, could win you promotion with a bang average team. The data and analytics have their place, but (not wanting to bring this into the discussion) they're secondary. At least for now.
"Don't shine that light in my face, mate - I've just lost a pint of blood."
A few weeks ago I was at Barnet's ground for a work thing. We were using one of the training pitches adjacent to the stadium. On the other training pitch was Barnet's first team squad (although they all looked so young I had to do some asking to find out whether it was the youth team or not).
At the end of the session, a stocky Irish guy calls them round. I didn't realise it was the manager (only later I found out after Googling it and noting his tracksuit initials were DB).
What I heard at this point was a list of stock phrases that any one of us could use to pass off as being a football manager. Kind of went like this:
'Good energy lads, good shape. Now, remember, this weekend... it's all about the clean sheet. I want you switched on and prepared. Win your battles. Get close to your men. Let them know they're in a game! I want to see good deliveries from set pieces, we work too hard on them on here to then intercourse them up on the day. Now, go and get your showers, we'll see you tomorrow.'
Now, I'm not knocking him as a manager because he's got Barnet second. But it makes me think... how much of football, at that level anyway, is dependent on insight, tactical nous, etc?
He spoke very passionately, he had their attention, they all seemed happy. The content of what he was saying just felt empty. I was waiting for something radical, something cutting, something clever. Nothing like that came. It was all very generic.
Makes me think football is about keeping players happy, giving them clear, simple instructions and just being open, honest and fair. Maybe Dean knows how to motivate them individually. This alone - before we even get to tactics or opposition studies - is possibly enough to achieve some measure of success in lower/non-league.
What we need is someone to come in, lift our players up off the floor, make them feel like world-beaters. Restore the confidence. Simple stuff, nothing complicated. Get them believing, get them pumped, get them fired up. That alone will get us back into mid-table. After that, maybe the nuances in tactical approaches and game management will take us to the next level.
I think Paul Groves once said that 90% of football is confidence. Someone who's a brilliant motivater, alongside a sports psychologist, could win you promotion with a bang average team. The data and analytics have their place, but (not wanting to bring this into the discussion) they're secondary. At least for now.
A great post. All professional players have innate ability, it is about the blend and how the bits of a team fits together and becomes one whole footballing side.
They need to be coached to the manager's preferred way of playing in a straightforward way without over complicating thigs. Why do some managers make it more complicated than it needs to be ?
A few weeks ago I was at Barnet's ground for a work thing. We were using one of the training pitches adjacent to the stadium. On the other training pitch was Barnet's first team squad (although they all looked so young I had to do some asking to find out whether it was the youth team or not).
At the end of the session, a stocky Irish guy calls them round. I didn't realise it was the manager (only later I found out after Googling it and noting his tracksuit initials were DB).
What I heard at this point was a list of stock phrases that any one of us could use to pass off as being a football manager. Kind of went like this:
'Good energy lads, good shape. Now, remember, this weekend... it's all about the clean sheet. I want you switched on and prepared. Win your battles. Get close to your men. Let them know they're in a game! I want to see good deliveries from set pieces, we work too hard on them on here to then intercourse them up on the day. Now, go and get your showers, we'll see you tomorrow.'
Now, I'm not knocking him as a manager because he's got Barnet second. But it makes me think... how much of football, at that level anyway, is dependent on insight, tactical nous, etc?
He spoke very passionately, he had their attention, they all seemed happy. The content of what he was saying just felt empty. I was waiting for something radical, something cutting, something clever. Nothing like that came. It was all very generic.
Makes me think football is about keeping players happy, giving them clear, simple instructions and just being open, honest and fair. Maybe Dean knows how to motivate them individually. This alone - before we even get to tactics or opposition studies - is possibly enough to achieve some measure of success in lower/non-league.
What we need is someone to come in, lift our players up off the floor, make them feel like world-beaters. Restore the confidence. Simple stuff, nothing complicated. Get them believing, get them pumped, get them fired up. That alone will get us back into mid-table. After that, maybe the nuances in tactical approaches and game management will take us to the next level.
I think Paul Groves once said that 90% of football is confidence. Someone who's a brilliant motivater, alongside a sports psychologist, could win you promotion with a bang average team. The data and analytics have their place, but (not wanting to bring this into the discussion) they're secondary. At least for now.
Imagine there's some data metric which attempts to assess a manager's ability to motivate. (Imagine PH would be top following the play-off promotion and FA Cup quarter-final )
But yeah, it's really a simpler game than most people (myself included) realize.
When I have a think about it and look at who we have involved already at the club and their seeming minor part they play, it seems strange that the owners would go to the lengths they have to get them involved and not utilise them fully. I'm making assumptions here that they are under utilised so my way of thinking is only going down the line of an assumption so could be miles wide.
I have this feeling that Gareth Jennings will take on a slightly more hands on DoF role. Whereas so far he's been in the background giving advice where necessary, I don't see where the direct benefit is. Given his other projects I think he'll still be distant but with a more direct say on things and the direction of where we're going.
From there I think Joe Hutchison will take a more prominent role as Head of Recruitment, working in tandem with the Head Coach and Jennings to serve up the player targets that meet the direction and strategy we're working towards, in effect his boss will be Jennings but working with the Head Coach to keep the picture and a degree of choice with the coaching staff.
The Head Coach I have a feeling will be someone with a background higher up the pyramid where this way of working is more prominent and understands how it works and has more emphasis on coaching, meaning that is where he places his concentration, alongside the man management of the players.
A few weeks ago I was at Barnet's ground for a work thing. We were using one of the training pitches adjacent to the stadium. On the other training pitch was Barnet's first team squad (although they all looked so young I had to do some asking to find out whether it was the youth team or not).
At the end of the session, a stocky Irish guy calls them round. I didn't realise it was the manager (only later I found out after Googling it and noting his tracksuit initials were DB).
What I heard at this point was a list of stock phrases that any one of us could use to pass off as being a football manager. Kind of went like this:
'Good energy lads, good shape. Now, remember, this weekend... it's all about the clean sheet. I want you switched on and prepared. Win your battles. Get close to your men. Let them know they're in a game! I want to see good deliveries from set pieces, we work too hard on them on here to then intercourse them up on the day. Now, go and get your showers, we'll see you tomorrow.'
Now, I'm not knocking him as a manager because he's got Barnet second. But it makes me think... how much of football, at that level anyway, is dependent on insight, tactical nous, etc?
He spoke very passionately, he had their attention, they all seemed happy. The content of what he was saying just felt empty. I was waiting for something radical, something cutting, something clever. Nothing like that came. It was all very generic.
Makes me think football is about keeping players happy, giving them clear, simple instructions and just being open, honest and fair. Maybe Dean knows how to motivate them individually. This alone - before we even get to tactics or opposition studies - is possibly enough to achieve some measure of success in lower/non-league.
What we need is someone to come in, lift our players up off the floor, make them feel like world-beaters. Restore the confidence. Simple stuff, nothing complicated. Get them believing, get them pumped, get them fired up. That alone will get us back into mid-table. After that, maybe the nuances in tactical approaches and game management will take us to the next level.
I think Paul Groves once said that 90% of football is confidence. Someone who's a brilliant motivater, alongside a sports psychologist, could win you promotion with a bang average team. The data and analytics have their place, but (not wanting to bring this into the discussion) they're secondary. At least for now.
Yeah really interesting. I think it was in Arsene Wenger's book, or a maybe a former player was talking about him, that his teams were capable of playing really intricate, complicated-looking football, but his communication was excellent - he'd give each player two or three very simple instructions, knowing that if everybody executed those instructions to the letter then the overall the system would work well.
You won't get data on it but someone like Neil Warnock is a classic example of the value of man-management.
Countless occasions where he's gone into a place that is rock bottom and he's picked them almost immediately. He gets the best out of people, because he connects with them. It's not rocket science but it is an art that gets you as much, if not more, than all the drills and technique work you do on a daily basis.
Warnock is successful at getting teams to outperform their expectations because he makes players not only run through walls for him, but more importantly because he makes them believe that they can actually run through that wall to start with.
The concept of the game is simple, you don't need data to work that out. That ball, it goes in that net and here are some quite basic rules you have to adhere to. But you add the human element into it and it becomes very, very complicated. This is why great technical coaches like Glenn Hoddle never made a real success in that profession, because they couldn't relate to people. The flip is why someone like Warnock has never managed at a much higher level consistently, because his technical game is flawed. Right at the top, the likes of Pep and Klopp are experts in their craft because both their man-management and technical coaching are exceptional.
At this level, the majority of teams and players are much about muchness. Some players are quicker, some stronger, but most are very similar. The major differences comes in how organised they are and then how badly they want it, together as a unit. A good man manager at this level will do OK with a half decent side. If they just so happen to also be able to install structure, discipline and purpose then they'll be pretty successful. You add that final element of a little bit of technical work and it would urine over teams at this level. Sadly I think it's that final bit that Paul Hurst fell short on with us, something I think he knew he needed to try and then didn't know how to do it.
JS understandably not wanting to sift through applications from morons who think they're the first ever person to apply for a real job referencing their Football Manager 'career'.
What? Not even if they won the Champions League with town in 2031? I guess spending all day updating my CV yesterday was a waste of time....
Does anyone else think that after Hurst we need someone in thats quite Charismatic. Don't think Paul was the sort to give a churchilian speech at half time to raise the players and he often sat on the bench offering little during the games.
Would like to see an 'organised mouth' come in with positive attacking football. Someone like Pete Wild or equivalent would be great and not someone towards the end of their career
You won't get data on it but someone like Neil Warnock is a classic example of the value of man-management.
Countless occasions where he's gone into a place that is rock bottom and he's picked them almost immediately. He gets the best out of people, because he connects with them. It's not rocket science but it is an art that gets you as much, if not more, than all the drills and technique work you do on a daily basis.
Warnock is successful at getting teams to outperform their expectations because he makes players not only run through walls for him, but more importantly because he makes them believe that they can actually run through that wall to start with.
The concept of the game is simple, you don't need data to work that out. That ball, it goes in that net and here are some quite basic rules you have to adhere to. But you add the human element into it and it becomes very, very complicated. This is why great technical coaches like Glenn Hoddle never made a real success in that profession, because they couldn't relate to people. The flip is why someone like Warnock has never managed at a much higher level consistently, because his technical game is flawed. Right at the top, the likes of Pep and Klopp are experts in their craft because both their man-management and technical coaching are exceptional.
At this level, the majority of teams and players are much about muchness. Some players are quicker, some stronger, but most are very similar. The major differences comes in how organised they are and then how badly they want it, together as a unit. A good man manager at this level will do OK with a half decent side. If they just so happen to also be able to install structure, discipline and purpose then they'll be pretty successful. You add that final element of a little bit of technical work and it would urine over teams at this level. Sadly I think it's that final bit that Paul Hurst fell short on with us, something I think he knew he needed to try and then didn't know how to do it.
It's important to plan for the future but equally important we realise we are, in old money, in division 4 with lower league players.
They all possess the ability of a pro footballer but they obviously are not as gifted as some higher in the pyramid and the biggest thing our squad needs is a boost in confidence, and being asked to do some simple things very well. You often see in our build up players having to think what to do next whereas it should come automatically like driving a car without having to think about it.
There is no need to second guess what the opposition may or may not do as they will be more concerned about stopping us.
Even regarding subs it has become ridiculous- we are a goal down with 5 minutes to go so send on another forward. Obvious you might think, but we have to spend 5 minutes going through the diagrams and instructions on the I pad and his head is so scrambled he makes no impression whatsoever.
It will be very interesting indeed to see the reaction of the players under a different set up.
I will give three months before there are cries to bring Hurst back after putting on the rose tinted glasses again,football fans are a fickle lot (including Notts fans)
Do you think the owners would consider poaching a manager from another club?
Completely down to money. That's the be all and end all. Can they afford to pay off a Managers contract? Doing that could account for any potential monies set aside to hire a DOF and Head Coach
Or would it be more viable to employ someone who is either unemployed or willing to change from their current job without any need for financial recompense?
Mick Brolly once told me that training was so boring. Apparently they did the same routine over and over again. But during a game, whenever he got the ball, he knew exactly where to pass it to a team mate.
George Kerr's team was the best team that I have watched in 73 years. One of only 2 Grimsby managers to win a league title.
Based on the names mentioned so far, i'm most intrigued by Nathan Rooney. I've done a bit of research, albeit very little, but that one could be very interesting IMO.
I wouldn't be disappointed with Artell either at this stage
Based on the names mentioned so far, i'm most intrigued by Nathan Rooney. I've done a bit of research, albeit very little, but that one could be very interesting IMO.
I wouldn't be disappointed with Artell either at this stage
If i'm honest, the only one that's being thrown around that i'd really be disappointed with is Graham Alexander. Did a very good job at Scunthorpe but since then has been sacked from 3 clubs and not exactly set the world alight. Think Artell, Rooney and Parkinson are my 3 preffered canidates.
I understand Nathan Rooney is currently managing in Gibraltar, has anybody got any stats for his time in Gibralter? Can't find any stats or win ratios etc
According to Twitter, hes won 70 of his last 93 games..... No matter what league or team you manage, that's impressive.
Only 34 years old.
Forgive me for being completely ignorant on Gibraltarian football, but surely it’s not much better than Sunday league or at best lincs league standard?
"Falls to Arnold... Arnold! That's it! Thats it! He's sealed it! Grimsby Town are back in the football league!!! Just a minute to go and Nathan Arnold makes it 3-1! Look at the scenes behind the goal! Look at the relief! The agony is finally over!!!"
John Tondeur - Wembley Stadium Sunday 15th May 2016
A few weeks ago I was at Barnet's ground for a work thing. We were using one of the training pitches adjacent to the stadium. On the other training pitch was Barnet's first team squad (although they all looked so young I had to do some asking to find out whether it was the youth team or not).
At the end of the session, a stocky Irish guy calls them round. I didn't realise it was the manager (only later I found out after Googling it and noting his tracksuit initials were DB).
What I heard at this point was a list of stock phrases that any one of us could use to pass off as being a football manager. Kind of went like this:
'Good energy lads, good shape. Now, remember, this weekend... it's all about the clean sheet. I want you switched on and prepared. Win your battles. Get close to your men. Let them know they're in a game! I want to see good deliveries from set pieces, we work too hard on them on here to then intercourse them up on the day. Now, go and get your showers, we'll see you tomorrow.'
Now, I'm not knocking him as a manager because he's got Barnet second. But it makes me think... how much of football, at that level anyway, is dependent on insight, tactical nous, etc?
He spoke very passionately, he had their attention, they all seemed happy. The content of what he was saying just felt empty. I was waiting for something radical, something cutting, something clever. Nothing like that came. It was all very generic.
Makes me think football is about keeping players happy, giving them clear, simple instructions and just being open, honest and fair. Maybe Dean knows how to motivate them individually. This alone - before we even get to tactics or opposition studies - is possibly enough to achieve some measure of success in lower/non-league.
What we need is someone to come in, lift our players up off the floor, make them feel like world-beaters. Restore the confidence. Simple stuff, nothing complicated. Get them believing, get them pumped, get them fired up. That alone will get us back into mid-table. After that, maybe the nuances in tactical approaches and game management will take us to the next level.
I think Paul Groves once said that 90% of football is confidence. Someone who's a brilliant motivater, alongside a sports psychologist, could win you promotion with a bang average team. The data and analytics have their place, but (not wanting to bring this into the discussion) they're secondary. At least for now.
Still not the rocket science many lead us to believe is it ?
Look at big Steve with Stevenage , Warnock , Hodgson and many more beside .
Somebody like Big Ron Atkinson or Barry Fry as DOF with a younger coach might be the route our custodians are looking to go down?
Forgive me for being completely ignorant on Gibraltarian football, but surely it’s not much better than Sunday league or at best lincs league standard?
1 of Aylesburys better midfielders - step 4 non league , is playing fairly regularly for the bottom club.suspectvits probably national.league north standard
1 of Aylesburys better midfielders - step 4 non league , is playing fairly regularly for the bottom club.suspectvits probably national.league north standard
I'm not saying the standard is high at all.
But if a manager in the National League north had that record, people would take notice and be suggesting him as well, right?
Forgive me for being completely ignorant on Gibraltarian football, but surely it’s not much better than Sunday league or at best lincs league standard?
You are probably right. I played against Cypriot 1st Division sides back in the mid 70's, and would consider them Lincs League at best. So as Gibraltar is much smaller than Cyprus then maybe they are more like Sunday League. Not that I have any great knowledge about those two countries standards now.
I don't really get the fascination with Parkinson. Yes, I realise there are 2 of them and this is the Alty bloke, but what exactly has he done in the past that's so brilliant;
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I don't really get the fascination with Parkinson. Yes, I realise there are 2 of them and this is the Alty bloke, but what exactly has he done in the past that's so brilliant;
He has a similar plight to Hurst, he started out at Nantwich. He took over in Febuary of 2015 after they were staring relegation from the NPL Prem in the face and kept them up, then some might remember that we was very close to playing them at Wembley as they were just beaten by Halifax in the FA Trophy semi final and finished 8th in the league. Massively punching above there weight against clubs spending a lot of money. The next season they finished 5th and lost to Spennymoor in the final. He then left to join Altrincham who had just been relegated from the NLN. He took them up at the first time of asking winning the league scoring 101 goals and then finished 5th in the first season of the NLN losing out in the playoffs. The next season they finished in the playoffs and beat Boston in the final, this is all whilst again punching well above there weight in terms of budget. Now has Altrincham flying in the NL... he improves players, his teams naturally progress year after year as shown and plays front foot attacking football.
Pete Wild for me, if we could tempt him. Excellent job at Halifax, and got Barrow playing some decent stuff last season, and look strong again this. IMO We've got better technical footballers here now, so I think his style would suit quite seamlessly.
I understand Nathan Rooney is currently managing in Gibraltar, has anybody got any stats for his time in Gibralter? Can't find any stats or win ratios etc
Pete wild is my dream man but going to take a lot of persuading
I’ve no answer to this but would he take a lot of persuading? Grimsby has far more long term potential and we are less remote geographically than Barrow so that’s a rare plus point. Not sure where he lives but given he was at Halifax and I believe Oldham it’s probably likely he isn’t living mega miles away.
Think he should definitely be on our shortlist but as other posters have observed success at one club doesn’t guarantee success at the next and equally failure at one club doesn’t mean they will fail in their next job. It’s what makes selecting a football manager one of the hardest tasks in the game and if it was straightforward more than 50% of clubs wouldn’t be changing their Managers each season.
I’ve no answer to this but would he take a lot of persuading? Grimsby has far more long term potential and we are less remote geographically than Barrow so that’s a rare plus point. Not sure where he lives but given he was at Halifax and I believe Oldham it’s probably likely he isn’t living mega miles away.
Think he should definitely be on our shortlist but as other posters have observed success at one club doesn’t guarantee success at the next and equally failure at one club doesn’t mean they will fail in their next job. It’s what makes selecting a football manager one of the hardest tasks in the game and if it was straightforward more than 50% of clubs wouldn’t be changing their Managers each season.
Think someone mentioned pete wild on a 5 yr contract at barrow dont see us getting him ,the lad at alty more realistic although obviously going to cost us so i reckon be somebody out of work , joey barton available promoted with brizzle rovers , can see somebody like gary bowyer as dof working alongside a young head coach only a wild guess tho
After reading the Bio of Nathan Rooney, I think he has demonstrated his ability to be a good head coach/manager for Town.
I understand his current position isn't anyway near our level but he's got that previous experience at and above our level.
If the board can afford to pay him out of a contract I think what he offers would bring more attractive attacking football, and as a bonus his mates with Chris Kirkland who's worked with him at non league level hahaha
He has a similar plight to Hurst, he started out at Nantwich. He took over in Febuary of 2015 after they were staring relegation from the NPL Prem in the face and kept them up, then some might remember that we was very close to playing them at Wembley as they were just beaten by Halifax in the FA Trophy semi final and finished 8th in the league. Massively punching above there weight against clubs spending a lot of money. The next season they finished 5th and lost to Spennymoor in the final. He then left to join Altrincham who had just been relegated from the NLN. He took them up at the first time of asking winning the league scoring 101 goals and then finished 5th in the first season of the NLN losing out in the playoffs. The next season they finished in the playoffs and beat Boston in the final, this is all whilst again punching well above there weight in terms of budget. Now has Altrincham flying in the NL... he improves players, his teams naturally progress year after year as shown and plays front foot attacking football.
He looks promisng, but reading that summary got me thinking about what other clubs might think about Hurst. Did a great job at Boston, got them promoted I believe. Then came to Grimsby and got them in the NL play offs four years running and took them up. Went to Shrewsbury and saved then from relegation, than got them into the L1 playoffs adn Trophy final. Then after ll fated spells at Ipswich and Scunthorpe returned to Grimsby, got them promoted from the NL at the first attempt and in the following season got them to the FA Cup quarterfinal. Looks impressive doesn't it.
He looks promisng, but reading that summary got me thinking about what other clubs might think about Hurst. Did a great job at Boston, got them promoted I believe. Then came to Grimsby and got them in the NL play offs four years running and took them up. Went to Shrewsbury and saved then from relegation, than got them into the L1 playoffs adn Trophy final. Then after ll fated spells at Ipswich and Scunthorpe returned to Grimsby, got them promoted from the NL at the first attempt and in the following season got them to the FA Cup quarterfinal. Looks impressive doesn't it.
It's the same as when you've signed a player and your looking at his showreel tbf, you really only see the best bits. The problem with Parkinson is there's only ever been good bits. 2 managerial positions in 8 years and every season he's progressed playing free flowing attacking football. Altrincham have a bottom 5 budget in the NL and he's kept them up playing good football. He's shown loyalty to Alty aswell, he was Notts Countys number 1 target in June of 22 before they appointed Luke Williams and he turned it down.
Forgive me for being completely ignorant on Gibraltarian football, but surely it’s not much better than Sunday league or at best lincs league standard?
Also, they have one stadium, Victoria Stadium, and all the League games are played there. One assumes not at the same time.
Asked Bing ChatGPT what it thinks. Russell Slade on the list... god no!
Yeah, AI isn’t quite there yet is it?
In terms of the rise of the machines, we’re still at the bit where Yoda’s trying to impregnate his Henry The Hoover. If Henry turns on him and tries to locate and suck out his brains, it might buy the human race another few years.
I understand Nathan Rooney is currently managing in Gibraltar, has anybody got any stats for his time in Gibralter? Can't find any stats or win ratios etc
With respect to NR, it's hell of a leap. A sacked League 1,2 manager is better than someone from a pub league.
No one has mentioned Stephen Clemence who is now looking. His experience as a coach is one of the best out there and if we are going along the head coach role surely he is a man we should be looking at.
No one has mentioned Stephen Clemence who is now looking. His experience as a coach is one of the best out there and if we are going along the head coach role surely he is a man we should be looking at.
He looks promisng, but reading that summary got me thinking about what other clubs might think about Hurst. Did a great job at Boston, got them promoted I believe. Then came to Grimsby and got them in the NL play offs four years running and took them up. Went to Shrewsbury and saved then from relegation, than got them into the L1 playoffs adn Trophy final. Then after ll fated spells at Ipswich and Scunthorpe returned to Grimsby, got them promoted from the NL at the first attempt and in the following season got them to the FA Cup quarterfinal. Looks impressive doesn't it.
No one has mentioned Stephen Clemence who is now looking. His experience as a coach is one of the best out there and if we are going along the head coach role surely he is a man we should be looking at.
Few Gillingham fans expect him to be appointed there
To play devils advocate re Parkinson, because I’m sure he is a good manager and anyone who comes in would get my support but….the last 3 seasons in the national league, he's finished 17th, 14th and 17th. Hardly tearing up trees is it? Especially when many almost refused to give any kudos to Hurst mk1 for finishing in the playoffs 4or5 seasons in a row before getting promoted.
I know there will be a massive difference in budgets and we’re not comparable as clubs, but still. Many in the past have written off the national league so to be welcoming a manager that has never finished in the top half seems a little strange.
Was told by someone that Alty are usually heavily reliant on loanees from the NW region too. Not sure if that actually is the case or not?
To play devils advocate re Parkinson, because I’m sure he is a good manager and anyone who comes in would get my support but….the last 3 seasons in the national league, he's finished 17th, 14th and 17th. Hardly tearing up trees is it? Especially when many almost refused to give any kudos to Hurst mk1 for finishing in the playoffs 4or5 seasons in a row before getting promoted.
I know there will be a massive difference in budgets and we’re not comparable as clubs, but still. Many in the past have written off the national league so to be welcoming a manager that has never finished in the top half seems a little strange.
Was told by someone that Alty are usually heavily reliant on loanees from the NW region too. Not sure if that actually is the case or not?
We had a top 5 budget in the NL, Alty very much have a bottom 5 budget.
No one has mentioned Stephen Clemence who is now looking. His experience as a coach is one of the best out there and if we are going along the head coach role surely he is a man we should be looking at.
To play devils advocate re Parkinson, because I’m sure he is a good manager and anyone who comes in would get my support but….the last 3 seasons in the national league, he's finished 17th, 14th and 17th. Hardly tearing up trees is it? Especially when many almost refused to give any kudos to Hurst mk1 for finishing in the playoffs 4or5 seasons in a row before getting promoted.
I know there will be a massive difference in budgets and we’re not comparable as clubs, but still. Many in the past have written off the national league so to be welcoming a manager that has never finished in the top half seems a little strange.
Was told by someone that Alty are usually heavily reliant on loanees from the NW region too. Not sure if that actually is the case or not?
When Hurst moved on last time we appointed a manager who’d got a club out of NLN by playing football & had helped develop Omar Bogle as well as talent like Jamie Osborne and Akwasi Asante both of whom where players many said would be great additions in the back of Hursts replacement coming in.
I know Bignot is poor comparison but we need experience and someone who knows how to progress in L2, we’re in a relegation battle.
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
Fair enough if that is the case. But he’d be joining a club with a fan base that many rightly or wrongly, expected a playoff push this season.
I think even the most optimistic man would admit that a playoff push is now unlikely. I think people first and foremost want an attractive brand of football, want us to set up to win football matches rather than counteracting opposition teams, especially at home. Being a proactive manager rather than a reactive manager. Most people recognise Alan as our greatest manager ever, but when I speak with most people older than me it wasn't just because he was so successful it was due to the good football that was played. If we had produced the performances like Gillingham and Salford then PH would still be in a job. We started the season with a high pressing style, going out and facing teams up. Paul quickly reverted to type at the first sign of trouble and we turned into a dull football team that was more worried about what the opposition team was doing rather than what we had in the locker. You can gloss over last season with the cup run and the best ever finish but everyone knows that at home it was absolutely woeful football played and I think it was the worst we'd been at home but for 3 wins at the end of the season when the season was done. We started well away from home and after losing to Orient won the next 5 on the road. Then I think after beating Stockport in October the next away win was Febuary... If the football is poor then the results have to be good and most forgave last season because of the cup success but the league performances were terrible. This season the performances were terrible and the results matched.
I think even the most optimistic man would admit that a playoff push is now unlikely. I think people first and foremost want an attractive brand of football, want us to set up to win football matches rather than counteracting opposition teams, especially at home. Being a proactive manager rather than a reactive manager. Most people recognise Alan as our greatest manager ever, but when I speak with most people older than me it wasn't just because he was so successful it was due to the good football that was played. If we had produced the performances like Gillingham and Salford then PH would still be in a job. We started the season with a high pressing style, going out and facing teams up. Paul quickly reverted to type at the first sign of trouble and we turned into a dull football team that was more worried about what the opposition team was doing rather than what we had in the locker. You can gloss over last season with the cup run and the best ever finish but everyone knows that at home it was absolutely woeful football played and I think it was the worst we'd been at home but for 3 wins at the end of the season when the season was done. We started well away from home and after losing to Orient won the next 5 on the road. Then I think after beating Stockport in October the next away win was Febuary... If the football is poor then the results have to be good and most forgave last season because of the cup success but the league performances were terrible. This season the performances were terrible and the results matched.
Oh, of course no one still thinks we’re still in with a shout for the playoffs. My point is that just a month or two ago, people did. And on the basis of what? Because as we now know, that couldn’t have been further from the truth of where we are actually at.
What I was trying to get at, is that some Town fans have very high (often unfounded) expectations. You’ve alluded to it yourself there: all we want is a winning team that play attractive football! Hah It’s a bit different from being at a team that can finish 17th in the national league and be seen as a decent season.
Oh, of course no one still thinks we’re still in with a shout for the playoffs. My point is that just a month or two ago, people did. And on the basis of what? Because as we now know, that couldn’t have been further from the truth of where we are actually at.
What I was trying to get at, is that some Town fans have very high (often unfounded) expectations. You’ve alluded to it yourself there: all we want is a winning team that play attractive football! Hah It’s a bit different from being at a team that can finish 17th in the national league and be seen as a decent season.
See what happens anyway. UTM!
I don’t think we’re being unrealistic in wanting a team that play nice attractive football, think most teams we’ve played this season have been distinctly average barring Mansfield. The bar really isn’t that high, the Gillingham performance was one of the best 90 minutes performances i’ve seen out of us in a long time. Out of possession we pressed them for 90 minutes and we could have hit them for 5/6. Alluding to your point about wanting a team that wins every week, I mentioned before that people understand you aren’t going to win every game, but i’d much rather we had a go at trying to win every game then having to sit and watch us play 5 at the back at home against a team that’s conceded 28 goals this season already.
He looks promisng, but reading that summary got me thinking about what other clubs might think about Hurst. Did a great job at Boston, got them promoted I believe. Then came to Grimsby and got them in the NL play offs four years running and took them up. Went to Shrewsbury and saved then from relegation, than got them into the L1 playoffs adn Trophy final. Then after ll fated spells at Ipswich and Scunthorpe returned to Grimsby, got them promoted from the NL at the first attempt and in the following season got them to the FA Cup quarterfinal. Looks impressive doesn't it.
Not wrong Ron - well said
He did a good job , I'm sure there are those that are nervous after our former football fortune chasing custodian made bad appointment after bad appointment barring Paul .
But all good thing's come to an end and none of us know how the ethical brothers first appointment will pan out - it's impossible to know isn't it ?
I feel they will have a shortlist and it may well be an out of the box appointment .
I suggested Big Ron & Barry Fry as DOF , as a bit of a laugh ; it will never happen as they definitely would not fit Jason & Andrews ethos .
I don't have any sort of clue who we will appoint , but will back the new boss like i did Hurst and all those failed managers before him - I do think we are a good proposition though , much better than before - the new gaffer will get space , time and relatively good backing - 3 things many coaches don't now do they .
I still don't think we are that far away in terms of doing better , but don't buy this narrative that we are unlucky - decent or even average teams find a way to win games , and we are not doing it . Let's hope we get a bounce and start finding a way to win , even if in the short term that is winning ugly .
I don’t think we’re being unrealistic in wanting a team that play nice attractive football, think most teams we’ve played this season have been distinctly average barring Mansfield. The bar really isn’t that high, the Gillingham performance was one of the best 90 minutes performances i’ve seen out of us in a long time. Out of possession we pressed them for 90 minutes and we could have hit them for 5/6. Alluding to your point about wanting a team that wins every week, I mentioned before that people understand you aren’t going to win every game, but i’d much rather we had a go at trying to win every game then having to sit and watch us play 5 at the back at home against a team that’s conceded 28 goals this season already.
I don't know - unless you have a load of money behind you at league 2 it seems difficult to play this attractive football and have success .
Mansfield & Notts are probably the only two teams who play a proper 'nice' style of football and have a high quality of player with high investment .
Wrexham & Stockport will probably go up this season with football that's hardly pure either .
All the teams that went up last season were not exactly playing a purist's style of football - weirdly I thought Rochdale played some of the nicest style and they went down didn't they.
I suppose it's more an open question :
Do people want the Buckley style , total football ?
Getting the ball in the box a lot , being hard working but on the front foot with good organisation (which seems a blueprint for success in league 2 ?
Or do people just want to see us win ,however we play ?
I honestly am baffled that people are asking the 'what has he done?' question of Phil Parkinson.
Just by getting into the Conference in the first place he's exceeded expectations. He's then bettered that with consistent mid-table finishes with a relegation place budget each season.
The Conference did and I'm sure still does have some dross in it. But he can only work with what he's got. With the budget he's got and especially in comparison to a lot of those sides in the Conference of recent seasons (Stockport, Wrexham, County et al.) he was never going to be competing with them. This season, with a number of the big spenders out he way, he looks to have closed the gap a bit more.
I don't think it'll be him, if for nothing else he'll fancy continuing to build his stock in the North West and wait for a bigger job closer to home. But if we're deeming him as someone who shouldn't be on our radar because of his achievements, or apparent lack of them, I fear a lot of people may be disappointed when the appointment is made.
Paul Hurst got Ilkeston and Boston promoted to the NLN. Got us promoted to league two twice, quarter finals of the fa cup and Shrewsbury to the Lg1 playoffs.
Looks great on paper! But it didn’t turn out that way this season.
Im not writing Parkinson off - just pointing out it’s a big jump to come to a team of our stature that has expectations in league two (generally speaking, not this season now).
Obviously I hope he smashes it if he does come.
Thought I do not agree that town fans would be fine with playing pretty football , having a go and losing.
Oh, of course no one still thinks we’re still in with a shout for the playoffs. My point is that just a month or two ago, people did. And on the basis of what? Because as we now know, that couldn’t have been further from the truth of where we are actually at.
What I was trying to get at, is that some Town fans have very high (often unfounded) expectations. You’ve alluded to it yourself there: all we want is a winning team that play attractive football! Hah It’s a bit different from being at a team that can finish 17th in the national league and be seen as a decent season.
See what happens anyway. UTM!
I really don’t buy this argument at all, that town fans have high expectations. I doubt there’s a more negative, cynical, pessimistic fanbase in the country. Not a direct comment at you, but just from what I’ve seen & heard recently.
The mere suggestion that fans might want to see a style of football that isn’t predominantly set out to stifle the opponents is seen as “unrealistic”. Nobody’s asking for Brazil 1970 or dutch total football, but a system where the players aren’t always second-guessing themselves, or shít scared to make a mistake because they’ll be out of the squad for a month, would be a move in the right direction.
Last season we finished 10th, had effectively 6 months knowing which league we’d be in the following season and had the biggest one-off cash injection into the coffers since Bogle left from that cup run. It seems entirely appropriate that most people expected to improve on last year’s finish which by definition would’ve meant a push for the playoffs. Now we’re getting people telling us that was a fantasy? My ārse.
Previously our problems were supposedly because the managers were always the cheap option, going back as far as I can remember. Now those same people are telling us that sacking Hurst/Doig is too expensive, and appointing pretty much anyone with coaching experience beyond that of Mr B is going to financially ruin the club.
Maybe people have had all the hope and optimism beaten out of them? I’m hoping that the owners have slightly higher expectations and a more positive outlook.
I really don’t buy this argument at all, that town fans have high expectations. I doubt there’s a more negative, cynical, pessimistic fanbase in the country. Not a direct comment at you, but just from what I’ve seen & heard recently.
The mere suggestion that fans might want to see a style of football that isn’t predominantly set out to stifle the opponents is seen as “unrealistic”. Nobody’s asking for Brazil 1970 or dutch total football, but a system where the players aren’t always second-guessing themselves, or shít scared to make a mistake because they’ll be out of the squad for a month, would be a move in the right direction.
Last season we finished 10th, had effectively 6 months knowing which league we’d be in the following season and had the biggest one-off cash injection into the coffers since Bogle left from that cup run. It seems entirely appropriate that most people expected to improve on last year’s finish which by definition would’ve meant a push for the playoffs. Now we’re getting people telling us that was a fantasy? My ārse.
Previously our problems were supposedly because the managers were always the cheap option, going back as far as I can remember. Now those same people are telling us that sacking Hurst/Doig is too expensive, and appointing pretty much anyone with coaching experience beyond that of Mr B is going to financially ruin the club.
Maybe people have had all the hope and optimism beaten out of them? I’m hoping that the owners have slightly higher expectations and a more positive outlook.
Couldn’t have put it better, to add on to that. Whilst all those Hurst achievements are great.. Shrewsbury was 6 years ago. Not playing down his accomplishments but since then he’s been sacked 3 times and suffered 2 relegations. Ipswich fans claim he’s the worst manager they’ve ever had. We as Town fans have seen his style of football. I loved the man whilst he was here and he’s give me some of my best moments supporting Grimsby but the football over the past two seasons has been nothing short of woeful. Like Jason said previously, they stuck with him in the NL because the data showed we were going to turn it round, fans will stick with you if the football is good and they can see a plan. We couldn’t and that’s why fans turned on him very quickly. I wish him well but there’s better alternatives for this football club. To put it down to the no experience front, Phil Parkinson is a manager that has 8 years of managerial experience, considerably more than what Paul had first time round.
A few weeks ago I was at Barnet's ground for a work thing. We were using one of the training pitches adjacent to the stadium. On the other training pitch was Barnet's first team squad (although they all looked so young I had to do some asking to find out whether it was the youth team or not).
At the end of the session, a stocky Irish guy calls them round. I didn't realise it was the manager (only later I found out after Googling it and noting his tracksuit initials were DB).
What I heard at this point was a list of stock phrases that any one of us could use to pass off as being a football manager. Kind of went like this:
'Good energy lads, good shape. Now, remember, this weekend... it's all about the clean sheet. I want you switched on and prepared. Win your battles. Get close to your men. Let them know they're in a game! I want to see good deliveries from set pieces, we work too hard on them on here to then intercourse them up on the day. Now, go and get your showers, we'll see you tomorrow.'
Now, I'm not knocking him as a manager because he's got Barnet second. But it makes me think... how much of football, at that level anyway, is dependent on insight, tactical nous, etc?
He spoke very passionately, he had their attention, they all seemed happy. The content of what he was saying just felt empty. I was waiting for something radical, something cutting, something clever. Nothing like that came. It was all very generic.
Makes me think football is about keeping players happy, giving them clear, simple instructions and just being open, honest and fair. Maybe Dean knows how to motivate them individually. This alone - before we even get to tactics or opposition studies - is possibly enough to achieve some measure of success in lower/non-league.
What we need is someone to come in, lift our players up off the floor, make them feel like world-beaters. Restore the confidence. Simple stuff, nothing complicated. Get them believing, get them pumped, get them fired up. That alone will get us back into mid-table. After that, maybe the nuances in tactical approaches and game management will take us to the next level.
I think Paul Groves once said that 90% of football is confidence. Someone who's a brilliant motivater, alongside a sports psychologist, could win you promotion with a bang average team. The data and analytics have their place, but (not wanting to bring this into the discussion) they're secondary. At least for now.
Spot on. When you see these documentaries, they don't seem to be saying anything out of this world. Just the obvious like when i played on Sunday footie. Was always told what was going wrong, which we knew but not how to fix it.
Couldn’t have put it better, to add on to that. Whilst all those Hurst achievements are great.. Shrewsbury was 6 years ago. Not playing down his accomplishments but since then he’s been sacked 3 times and suffered 2 relegations. Ipswich fans claim he’s the worst manager they’ve ever had. We as Town fans have seen his style of football. I loved the man whilst he was here and he’s give me some of my best moments supporting Grimsby but the football over the past two seasons has been nothing short of woeful. Like Jason said previously, they stuck with him in the NL because the data showed we were going to turn it round, fans will stick with you if the football is good and they can see a plan. We couldn’t and that’s why fans turned on him very quickly. I wish him well but there’s better alternatives for this football club. To put it down to the no experience front, Phil Parkinson is a manager that has 8 years of managerial experience, considerably more than what Paul had first time round.
Hurst's record is like the majority of EFL managers with 4 or 5 clubs (or more) on their CV. Some success; because you don't get employed that many times if you haven't had some, and some failures; because the prevailing forces in football seemingly dictate that the odds of experiencing a "sackable" failure at some point are greater than being poached by a club higher up the food chain.
Newell had 2 promotions on his CV. Holloway had 3, including 2 to the Premier League. Going further back, Alan Buckley famously had 4, 3 of them here, and still managed to get sacked by us twice. Slade's the slight anomaly in that he managed to go from non-league, all the way to the Championship (in sequential order) without ever winning promotion (though he did have several "nearly" seasons with Town, Yeovil and Leyton Orient). He also managed to go back down in sequential order too; a classic example of managerial rise and fall.
Few managers are permanently successful. Some have patchy careers, whilst others appear to lose the magic as the game outstrips their own development and ideas. Hard to know how or when Hurst will bounce back from his latest setback, but I think a majority of Town fans considered him to be, at the very least, a "good" manager back in July; can he really be a terrible one now? There's no doubting that an overwhelming number of the big calls he's made in recruitment and tactics this season have backfired spectacularly, but I suspect we've not seen the last of him as an EFL manager. I hope not, anyway.
Hurst's record is like the majority of EFL managers with 4 or 5 clubs (or more) on their CV. Some success; because you don't get employed that many times if you haven't had some, and some failures; because the prevailing forces in football seemingly dictate that the odds of experiencing a "sackable" failure at some point are greater than being poached by a club higher up the food chain.
Newell had 2 promotions on his CV. Holloway had 3, including 2 to the Premier League. Going further back, Alan Buckley famously had 4, 3 of them here, and still managed to get sacked by us twice. Slade's the slight anomaly in that he managed to go from non-league, all the way to the Championship (in sequential order) without ever winning promotion (though he did have several "nearly" seasons with Town, Yeovil and Leyton Orient). He also managed to go back down in sequential order too; a classic example of managerial rise and fall.
Few managers are permanently successful. Some have patchy careers, whilst others appear to lose the magic as the game outstrips their own development and ideas. Hard to know how or when Hurst will bounce back from his latest setback, but I think a majority of Town fans considered him to be, at the very least, a "good" manager back in July; can he really be a terrible one now? There's no doubting that an overwhelming number of the big calls he's made in recruitment and tactics this season have backfired spectacularly, but I suspect we've not seen the last of him as an EFL manager. I hope not, anyway.
The only call I would say he has got objectively wrong has been the GK, he has made a complete mess of that.
I was no great advocate of Crocombe by any stretch of the imagination but Eastwood is a definitive downgrade. He makes no saves and he as flappy as anything I've seen, his technique of catching the ball in his midriff always was a recipe for disaster. Cartwright, up to Saturday in fairness, had been a disaster whenever we'd seen him.
Maybe you could argue he's messed up the LB situation as well. In playing Amos on too many occasions thus triggering his extension clause meant he had no wriggle room short of actively shipping one of them out. Glennon's form fell of a cliff, he never was great defensively but this season calling him a liability would be an understatement. He's left us with two Conference LB's and easily exposable down that side. Short of that, I'd say the other signings have all been improvements on what preceded them.
I'd have argued that Hurst had had mainly good windows before that and had earned the right to fixing his errors in January, as I think a LB and GK of decent L2 quality would have made all the difference. Now we're faced with appointing a new manager, who will want his own style and players but is lumbered with Hurst's players on 2 and 3 year contracts. Whoever the new man is though is going to have to improve on those two positions markedly in January. Michee has been our best LB this season, that says it all!
The decision to move to a more possession based game, using Conteh as the keystone was working a treat until Bradford in the 89th minute, which is where I trace the downfall back to. Something happened thereafter and we've barely been able to buy a point since. These players are better than they've shown these last 6-7 weeks, and if we'd held leads at Walsall, Bradford, Tranmere and at home to Crawley there is no way we're currently having this conversation.
Any new man's first job is to somehow lift the confidence of a lot of the players, some of them are suffering almost a crisis in confidence (Rodgers, Mullarkey, Eastwood, Harry, Eisa all look like they're carrying the weight of the world on their shoulders). The above capitulations and chucked away points have no doubt contributed to this confidence problem, which we will come through.
I've wasted my life in black and white, a pathetic act for a worthless cause
Not saying I would want Fatty Evans ever at GTFC but... Just read his 'bigging up' of Kane Hemmings after he scored his first goal for the club "He has the heart of a lion"
OTT obviously but surely that's the way to make players want to play for you at L1/L2 level
Goes back to the excellent Barnet post - it just feels a back to basics 'man management' approach is often best and not all the data-led jargon
Can't believe Evans is a great coach but he's obviously a hell of a man manager as his record suggests
I really don’t buy this argument at all, that town fans have high expectations. I doubt there’s a more negative, cynical, pessimistic fanbase in the country. Not a direct comment at you, but just from what I’ve seen & heard recently.
The mere suggestion that fans might want to see a style of football that isn’t predominantly set out to stifle the opponents is seen as “unrealistic”. Nobody’s asking for Brazil 1970 or dutch total football, but a system where the players aren’t always second-guessing themselves, or shít scared to make a mistake because they’ll be out of the squad for a month, would be a move in the right direction.
Last season we finished 10th, had effectively 6 months knowing which league we’d be in the following season and had the biggest one-off cash injection into the coffers since Bogle left from that cup run. It seems entirely appropriate that most people expected to improve on last year’s finish which by definition would’ve meant a push for the playoffs. Now we’re getting people telling us that was a fantasy? My ārse.
Previously our problems were supposedly because the managers were always the cheap option, going back as far as I can remember. Now those same people are telling us that sacking Hurst/Doig is too expensive, and appointing pretty much anyone with coaching experience beyond that of Mr B is going to financially ruin the club.
Maybe people have had all the hope and optimism beaten out of them? I’m hoping that the owners have slightly higher expectations and a more positive outlook.
Agree that given the off season time/ pre season prep this season and what must be a decent (if not spectacular) budget I was expecting to be knocking on the door of the playoffs. I still think a large part of the squad is pretty good but there are a few gaping holes along with a massive drop in confidence after the poor form. We should be good enough to stay up, especially with a couple of additions in January but I can’t see the playoffs being very likely from where we are currently.
Paul Hurst got Ilkeston and Boston promoted to the NLN. Got us promoted to league two twice, quarter finals of the fa cup and Shrewsbury to the Lg1 playoffs.
Looks great on paper! But it didn’t turn out that way this season.
Im not writing Parkinson off - just pointing out it’s a big jump to come to a team of our stature that has expectations in league two (generally speaking, not this season now).
Obviously I hope he smashes it if he does come.
Thought I do not agree that town fans would be fine with playing pretty football , having a go and losing.
I can only speak for myself but I don't expect us to be playing Barca-esque tiki-taka. But I would like us to have a plan and actually have a go at beating teams. Something to get me off my seat such as crosses or balls in behind, some periods of sustained pressure. Anything basically which I can get behind. Not playing five defenders at home against 23rd placed Colchester. Hurst was too negative, too focused on the opposition and that seems to have rubbed off on the team who frankly look lost a lot of the time when we have the ball.
I genuinely believe one of the major turning points for this season was the pre-match interview prior to playing Wrexham. I can't remember the exact quote but it was along the lines of a lack of fairness because they spend so much. What a message to send to your players! He then set up to stop us losing against a team that has a worse defence than we do. They're not Man City, they're not even Stockport so let's at least have a go at their dodgy defence but instead we managed one shot on target which was a pea-roller. The message from Hurst prior to that game was "Our players are not good enough to compete with the top end" and since then we've looked totally devoid of belief. The game before that we'd had a sucker punch against Bradford after a very good first half but we haven't been close to that level of performance since then. I believe a combination of that Bradford sucker punch then your manager publicly saying you're not as good as a slightly above average Wrexham took the wind out of our sails and it's been downhill since. And that's one of the biggest and first tasks for the new boss.
I can only speak for myself but I don't expect us to be playing Barca-esque tiki-taka. But I would like us to have a plan and actually have a go at beating teams. Something to get me off my seat such as crosses or balls in behind, some periods of sustained pressure. Anything basically which I can get behind. Not playing five defenders at home against 23rd placed Colchester. Hurst was too negative, too focused on the opposition and that seems to have rubbed off on the team who frankly look lost a lot of the time when we have the ball.
Think that pretty well sums up my stand point on expectations. I commented on another thread that when we had Sousa and Bopaga you get a feeling of anticipation when they received the ball as you knew they were going to attack the defence and try and make things happen rather than receiving the ball, standing still, knocking it back to the defence and retaining possession. Christ I even used to feel a tingle when Tom Bolawina (apologies Tom for the spelling of your surname) got the ball because he was unpredictable but again prepared to run at defenders.
In respect of possession we do need to address our midfield weaknesses as we never seem able to dominate this area even in home games. Whether Hunt or Khouri have more to offer, when fit and/or selected, is obviously a matter of debate on here but I would just like to see them and Conteh given a chance or even Green, Conteh and one of the other two to see if there is something there that will benefit us.
I can only speak for myself but I don't expect us to be playing Barca-esque tiki-taka. But I would like us to have a plan and actually have a go at beating teams. Something to get me off my seat such as crosses or balls in behind, some periods of sustained pressure. Anything basically which I can get behind. Not playing five defenders at home against 23rd placed Colchester. Hurst was too negative, too focused on the opposition and that seems to have rubbed off on the team who frankly look lost a lot of the time when we have the ball.
I genuinely believe one of the major turning points for this season was the pre-match interview prior to playing Wrexham. I can't remember the exact quote but it was along the lines of a lack of fairness because they spend so much. What a message to send to your players! He then set up to stop us losing against a team that has a worse defence than we do. They're not Man City, they're not even Stockport so let's at least have a go at their dodgy defence but instead we managed one shot on target which was a pea-roller. The message from Hurst prior to that game was "Our players are not good enough to compete with the top end" and since then we've looked totally devoid of belief. The game before that we'd had a sucker punch against Bradford after a very good first half but we haven't been close to that level of performance since then. I believe a combination of that Bradford sucker punch then your manager publicly saying you're not as good as a slightly above average Wrexham took the wind out of our sails and it's been downhill since. And that's one of the biggest and first tasks for the new boss.
You make a good case and these things can often hinge on pivotal moments as you describe.
I think in the end Hurst despite his attributes just made too many mistakes. I don't think he was happy with the squad he assembled once he saw them in the flesh so to speak, exacerbated by playing a defensive game with no obvious attacking intent which seemed to inhibit the players in the end.
There is also that stubborn streak where he won't change tack even if it isn't working as exemplified by the use of subs.
A change of manager and a fresh outlook often does the trick. It's a simple game and I hope the new manager/coach clears their heads and starts afresh.
I think it will be good for the club and its future direction that we have a new set up as I think any improvements under Hurst would have been painfully slow and punctuated with long poor spells.
You make a good case and these things can often hinge on pivotal moments as you describe.
I think in the end Hurst despite his attributes just made too many mistakes. I don't think he was happy with the squad he assembled once he saw them in the flesh so to speak, exacerbated by playing a defensive game with no obvious attacking intent which seemed to inhibit the players in the end.
There is also that stubborn streak where he won't change tack even if it isn't working as exemplified by the use of subs.
A change of manager and a fresh outlook often does the trick. It's a simple game and I hope the new manager/coach clears their heads and starts afresh.
I think it will be good for the club and its future direction that we have a new set up as I think any improvements under Hurst would have been painfully slow and punctuated with long poor spells.
I think the simple act of releasing Conteh to go forward with Green as a shield woukd massively improve the balance of the team
You make a good case and these things can often hinge on pivotal moments as you describe.
I think in the end Hurst despite his attributes just made too many mistakes. I don't think he was happy with the squad he assembled once he saw them in the flesh so to speak, exacerbated by playing a defensive game with no obvious attacking intent which seemed to inhibit the players in the end.
There is also that stubborn streak where he won't change tack even if it isn't working as exemplified by the use of subs.
A change of manager and a fresh outlook often does the trick. It's a simple game and I hope the new manager/coach clears their heads and starts afresh.
I think it will be good for the club and its future direction that we have a new set up as I think any improvements under Hurst would have been painfully slow and punctuated with long poor spells.
Well said. Bit of New Manager Bounce will help. Also, he'll have a few weeks of matches before the busy Christmas period, and the January window. All in all, I have less worry about the drop, and thinking about how far we can kick on. UTM
I think the simple act of releasing Conteh to go forward with Green as a shield woukd massively improve the balance of the team
I'm keen to say what else Conteh can do but I dunno if it's more about pushing him further forward or just getting the best out of him in that holding role.
If he's in there to dictate the play, take and hold onto possession in tight situations, drag opposition players out of position and do that screening role then he's a major asset. If we're not playing that way and just by passing him, it's a waste and a player of his talent should be doing more than just screening. Equally so in that 'just' screening role, I don't think he offers enough to merit a place in the team.
No issue with him continuing to sit deep, but it has to be with a view to dictating play as opposed to becoming a third centre-back.
I think the simple act of releasing Conteh to go forward with Green as a shield woukd massively improve the balance of the team
Second half Colchester we looked very good with Green in there and then Conteh going forward.. pre season Paul seemed content on having Hunt and Conteh in there and then sacrificed Hunt so Conteh could hold. Maybe push Conteh forward with Hunt in the 4 with the protection of Conteh and Harry/Gav? Not Hunt's biggest fan but the boy obviously has talent on the ball.
Paul Hurst got Ilkeston and Boston promoted to the NLN. Got us promoted to league two twice, quarter finals of the fa cup and Shrewsbury to the Lg1 playoffs.
Looks great on paper! But it didn’t turn out that way this season.
Im not writing Parkinson off - just pointing out it’s a big jump to come to a team of our stature that has expectations in league two (generally speaking, not this season now).
Obviously I hope he smashes it if he does come.
Thought I do not agree that town fans would be fine with playing pretty football , having a go and losing.
I've no idea about the budget or expectations at Ilkeston when Scott and Hurst were there. But at Boston I think they pretty much met their expectations didn't they? Both promotions with us were always the objective, whenever we didn't achieve it then it was always seen as a failure, Shrewsbury was a massive over achievement and with that he got a job at a higher level.
Parkinson is definitely over exceeding at Altrincham. Like I say it's not one I see happening but just genuinely curious why people seem so against him.
The way I see it, realistically we can fish in 3 pools for our new manager.
Pool 1) Those with massive ambitions but no experience of being the main man. Likely to have to step down the pyramid to get their first shot at a big job. Pool 2) Experience at this level, some with limited success but all with failure on their track record - hence the fact they're out of work. Pool 3) Those wanting to progress to a higher club, maybe using us a stepping stone to do so.
I don't think we're even looking at Pool 4 of those employed at this level with a proven record (think your Pete Wild's) and we're not allowed to get through the gates of Pool 5 (managers from a higher level with a decent record and reputation).
Pools 1-3 all have risks associated with them. No guarantees, regardless of who we get.
To me Hurst bought a set of new players intending to play in a certain way. Think he began to realise that they either were'nt up to the task or didnt get what he was asking them to do. In many games the team looked utterly lost and then Hurst's decision making looked like he was caught between two stools - added to his stubborness or indesicion to change things compounded the problem. Going forward all I ask is to be entertained because its been a tough watch for too long.
Second half Colchester we looked very good with Green in there and then Conteh going forward.. pre season Paul seemed content on having Hunt and Conteh in there and then sacrificed Hunt so Conteh could hold. Maybe push Conteh forward with Hunt in the 4 with the protection of Conteh and Harry/Gav? Not Hunt's biggest fan but the boy obviously has talent on the ball.
Pre-season against Lincoln it was Conteh holding with Hunt and (I think) Clifton as the two higher pressing midfielders.
Pre-season and Lincoln were out of sorts, but Hunt ran riot. I always thought to get the best out of Hunt we needed someone to work the lines and give him something to aim for with his passing. That displayed changed my mind to that maybe he's the one who works the lines and someone picks him out.
As a few others have said, this is the point where I'm prepared to cut my losses on backing Hunt. If the new manager comes in and identifies that Hunt isn't for him too, then maybe the problem is actually the player.
Pre-season against Lincoln it was Conteh holding with Hunt and (I think) Clifton as the two higher pressing midfielders.
Pre-season and Lincoln were out of sorts, but Hunt ran riot. I always thought to get the best out of Hunt we needed someone to work the lines and give him something to aim for with his passing. That displayed changed my mind to that maybe he's the one who works the lines and someone picks him out.
As a few others have said, this is the point where I'm prepared to cut my losses on backing Hunt. If the new manager comes in and identifies that Hunt isn't for him too, then maybe the problem is actually the player.
Exact same as his best run last season mate, Stockport away rings a bell.
Nathan Rooney sounds like a walking linkedin profile angling for the chance to guest on Jake Humphries' cringeworthy and cliched 'High Performance' podcast. Avoid at all costs please Stockwood and Pettit.
Second half Colchester we looked very good with Green in there and then Conteh going forward.. pre season Paul seemed content on having Hunt and Conteh in there and then sacrificed Hunt so Conteh could hold. Maybe push Conteh forward with Hunt in the 4 with the protection of Conteh and Harry/Gav? Not Hunt's biggest fan but the boy obviously has talent on the ball.
I think very good in the second half against Colchester is an exaggeration. We looked slightly less shite.
To me Hurst bought a set of new players intending to play in a certain way. Think he began to realise that they either were'nt up to the task or didnt get what he was asking them to do. In many games the team looked utterly lost and then Hurst's decision making looked like he was caught between two stools - added to his stubborness or indesicion to change things compounded the problem. Going forward all I ask is to be entertained because its been a tough watch for too long.
Possibly PH's worst decisions are actually no decisions. “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” AE. It's the same with a team, if it aint working alter it. When we played Donny they had a forced sub at 23 minutes or so. Within minutes Donny started to come into the game a lot more. A change with new/modified instructions worked for them.
Nathan Rooney sounds like a walking linkedin profile angling for the chance to guest on Jake Humphries' cringeworthy and cliched 'High Performance' podcast. Avoid at all costs please Stockwood and Pettit.
But why are you so against it? Do you see it as too similar to the Jolley experiment?
Just interested that’s all.
"They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old, Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn, At the going down of the sun, and in the morning, We WILL remember them"
Really? That's not the impression I'm getting but I hope you are right.
Do you know something mate?
"They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old, Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn, At the going down of the sun, and in the morning, We WILL remember them"
You make a good case and these things can often hinge on pivotal moments as you describe.
I think in the end Hurst despite his attributes just made too many mistakes. I don't think he was happy with the squad he assembled once he saw them in the flesh so to speak, exacerbated by playing a defensive game with no obvious attacking intent which seemed to inhibit the players in the end.
There is also that stubborn streak where he won't change tack even if it isn't working as exemplified by the use of subs.
A change of manager and a fresh outlook often does the trick. It's a simple game and I hope the new manager/coach clears their heads and starts afresh.
I think it will be good for the club and its future direction that we have a new set up as I think any improvements under Hurst would have been painfully slow and punctuated with long poor spells.
I just spent two hours writing a post with a detailed analysis on league statistics this season then chinned it off because it was too long winded and in the end - pointless. But I'll give the cliff notes because it defies what you're saying;
In terms of action zones, we had 33% action in the final third, 40% action in the middle third and 27% action in our third. So 73% of the game was played in the mid-attacking thirds. That doesn't look defensive to me.
We sit 9th in the league for crosses per game at 21. Mansfield are top with 26 and bottom has 15, the median is 20. So we're in the more attacking half of teams where crosses are concerned.
We sit 10th for possession on 49.9%, again in the top half for having the ball, which doesn't sound defensive.
Interestingly, 39% of our attacks came down the left, 40% down the right and 21% down the middle. Despite the origins being marginally in favour of the right, of our actual chances created, 28% came down the left which happens to be the highest in the league, 14% down the right and 58% through the middle which happens to be bottom. It shows that our left side has been far more effective than the left, including defensively where 18% of chances against has come down the right and 15% down the left. It suggests this whole LB thing is a myth and it's better than our right.
We're 3rd in the league for unsuccessful touches, with 19.3 per game, which might contribute towards an 18th place position for successful pass %age at 68.1%.
If you took those stats as they are for now, you could argue that actually, whether we setup based on the opposition or not we actually have the ball in the final two thirds nearly three quarters of the game. The issue isn't in how we setup but the amount of unsuccessful touches which likely leads to loss of possession and failed attacks. Those individual errors can't be attributed to the way we setup and are beyond the control of any coach.
We average 306 short passes per game (highest 523, lowest 227 and median 347) and 84 long balls per game (highest 87 lowest 54...if I remember right). We were 7th for long balls, and it might be reasonable to think that if the stats are showing lots of unsuccessful touches, and a low pass success rate that when the form dropped he began to find a combination between players making fewer mistakes (dropping Hunt..?) and bypassing that area together, which might be supported by the fact we're 3rd in offensive aerial duels won at 31.3%, making it one of our strengths. When you say play to our strengths, statistically that is one.
I know you love stats but for those who don't and believe they offer no value, I've just given some that reflect that in comparison with the rest of the league there's nothing at all to suggest we're defensive. There's evidence to suggest our lower shots at goal and shots on target ratio can be attributed to individual error in giving the ball away, and perhaps a lack of creating chances through the middle hinders us but we are far from conclusively defensive.
My personal view is that people want to believe we're playing worse than we are because it aids the narrative. The lack of points on the board has been enough to cost PH his job, with the second matrix the uncharacteristic amount of goals conceded an attributed failure, but everything else I didn't see as major failure. We've been no better or worse than the vast majority of teams, with only Barrow and Mansfield the sides I would say dominated us throughout and Notts Co who, despite us having good spells against, really impressed me with how they played which stats back up too. Everyone else is within touching distance of each other and there's nothing other than being too close to the project that says we're poor in respect of how we're playing outside the columns that read goals for, goals against and points. Someone posted in a thread somewhere that we look top 5 in between the boxes, bottom 5 in the boxes which I think is a great assessment but one that coupled with above doesn't mean or suggest we're defensive. We're a nats member of a tweak away in both boxes before we have every realistic chance of progressing up the table which wouldn't be true if we were a defensive side.
If there’s a recent managerial appointment outcome we want to emulate, then it’s probably Kieran McKenna at Ipswich. I must admit to not having known much about him prior to his appointment, despite him having become assistant manager at Manchester United at the ripe old age of 32, but his record at Portman Road is absolutely outstanding.
He was appointed less than two years ago with Ipswich 12th in League One and steadied the ship before winning automatic promotion with 98 points last season. They’re currently 2nd in the Championship, 9 points ahead of Leeds in 3rd, with a game in hand. His win ratio is 60.0% over 95 league games, and has lost only 13.
If he takes them into the Premier League, then it would have to go down as the best EFL managerial appointment in a long time. He’s still only 37.
Of course, arbitrarily suggesting we should appoint the high ranking coach of a major club is just folly. McKenna is working so well in Suffolk presumably because he is well suited to being first-team manager, which doesn’t necessarily apply to every other number 2 in the country.
However, I assume there is something other than fluke that led Ipswich to him. In effect, they’ve identified a fantastic manager who just didn’t have that experience on his CV yet (because if he did, he wouldn’t have been going to Ipswich). If the right due diligence is done (and it should be whomever we appoint), I wouldn’t be at all opposed to someone young who has shown evidence of being an outstanding coach at a high-level, taking on their first role as a number 1. I appreciate that’s loosely the approach that Forest Green took with David Horsrman and it hasn’t been a roaring (or neighing) success so far, but if we can identify someone within our price range, and there’s sufficient evidence of their ability, then I think it’s a route we should consider.
I just spent two hours writing a post with a detailed analysis on league statistics this season then chinned it off because it was too long winded and in the end - pointless. But I'll give the cliff notes because it defies what you're saying;
In terms of action zones, we had 33% action in the final third, 40% action in the middle third and 27% action in our third. So 73% of the game was played in the mid-attacking thirds. That doesn't look defensive to me.
We sit 9th in the league for crosses per game at 21. Mansfield are top with 26 and bottom has 15, the median is 20. So we're in the more attacking half of teams where crosses are concerned.
We sit 10th for possession on 49.9%, again in the top half for having the ball, which doesn't sound defensive.
Interestingly, 39% of our attacks came down the left, 40% down the right and 21% down the middle. Despite the origins being marginally in favour of the right, of our actual chances created, 28% came down the left which happens to be the highest in the league, 14% down the right and 58% through the middle which happens to be bottom. It shows that our left side has been far more effective than the left, including defensively where 18% of chances against has come down the right and 15% down the left. It suggests this whole LB thing is a myth and it's better than our right.
We're 3rd in the league for unsuccessful touches, with 19.3 per game, which might contribute towards an 18th place position for successful pass %age at 68.1%.
If you took those stats as they are for now, you could argue that actually, whether we setup based on the opposition or not we actually have the ball in the final two thirds nearly three quarters of the game. The issue isn't in how we setup but the amount of unsuccessful touches which likely leads to loss of possession and failed attacks. Those individual errors can't be attributed to the way we setup and are beyond the control of any coach.
We average 306 short passes per game (highest 523, lowest 227 and median 347) and 84 long balls per game (highest 87 lowest 54...if I remember right). We were 7th for long balls, and it might be reasonable to think that if the stats are showing lots of unsuccessful touches, and a low pass success rate that when the form dropped he began to find a combination between players making fewer mistakes (dropping Hunt..?) and bypassing that area together, which might be supported by the fact we're 3rd in offensive aerial duels won at 31.3%, making it one of our strengths. When you say play to our strengths, statistically that is one.
I know you love stats but for those who don't and believe they offer no value, I've just given some that reflect that in comparison with the rest of the league there's nothing at all to suggest we're defensive. There's evidence to suggest our lower shots at goal and shots on target ratio can be attributed to individual error in giving the ball away, and perhaps a lack of creating chances through the middle hinders us but we are far from conclusively defensive.
My personal view is that people want to believe we're playing worse than we are because it aids the narrative. The lack of points on the board has been enough to cost PH his job, with the second matrix the uncharacteristic amount of goals conceded an attributed failure, but everything else I didn't see as major failure. We've been no better or worse than the vast majority of teams, with only Barrow and Mansfield the sides I would say dominated us throughout and Notts Co who, despite us having good spells against, really impressed me with how they played which stats back up too. Everyone else is within touching distance of each other and there's nothing other than being too close to the project that says we're poor in respect of how we're playing outside the columns that read goals for, goals against and points. Someone posted in a thread somewhere that we look top 5 in between the boxes, bottom 5 in the boxes which I think is a great assessment but one that coupled with above doesn't mean or suggest we're defensive. We're a nats member of a tweak away in both boxes before we have every realistic chance of progressing up the table which wouldn't be true if we were a defensive side.
There's only ten teams that have conceded less than us and 6 that have scored less. We have an XG of 1.02 which is the second worst in the division and an XG against of 1.31 which is the 5th best. Stats are useless if they aren't used in the greater context of things, yes we may put balls in the box but how many of them were headed away or didn't beat the first man? How many of the attacks down either side were successful attacks that resulted into a chance? How many of the opposition attacks resulted in a successful chance? . The biggest stat is that we've won the joint least games in the division and lost the last 5.
But why are you so against it? Do you see it as too similar to the Jolley experiment?
Just interested that’s all.
For me, I think it’s inevitable that we’ll go for a coach type. I think there are more coaches in the UK with better pedigrees than Rooney has. His coaching experience in the UK has looked okay but nothing outstanding, and I’ve a feeling that the Gibraltar experience is so far removed from the level we’re operating at. If you took away his Gibraltar experience at an extremely low level, we wouldn’t even consider his cv.
I like the idea of a coach the more I think about it, I think it’s suited to what we’re trying to achieve long term. I do think Kennedy fits the bill perfectly.
Nathan Rooney sounds like a walking linkedin profile angling for the chance to guest on Jake Humphries' cringeworthy and cliched 'High Performance' podcast. Avoid at all costs please Stockwood and Pettit.
Does he?
I thought he just sounds measured, articulate and knowledgeable.
There's only ten teams that have conceded less than us and 6 that have scored less. We have an XG of 1.02 which is the second worst in the division and an XG against of 1.31 which is the 5th best. Stats are useless if they aren't used in the greater context of things, yes we may put balls in the box but how many of them were headed away or didn't beat the first man? How many of the attacks down either side were successful attacks that resulted into a chance? How many of the opposition attacks resulted in a successful chance? . The biggest stat is that we've won the joint least games in the division and lost the last 5.
Oh come on Local Lad get with the programme! It's not the stats of the league table that matter, it's not that we score less than the opposition in most games, it's not that we don't win many games, its a retrospective analysis of games that have gone that will have no bearing on the outcome of the next match that is important!
Fair play to Chris and anybody who believes this stuff. The stats prove we are not defensive at all, so all is well I suppose. To be honest I wonder why with the stats at his disposal PH couldn't effect a cure?
There's only ten teams that have conceded less than us and 6 that have scored less. We have an XG of 1.02 which is the second worst in the division and an XG against of 1.31 which is the 5th best. Stats are useless if they aren't used in the greater context of things, yes we may put balls in the box but how many of them were headed away or didn't beat the first man? How many of the attacks down either side were successful attacks that resulted into a chance? How many of the opposition attacks resulted in a successful chance? . The biggest stat is that we've won the joint least games in the division and lost the last 5.
You're right but that doesn't undermine the stats in general, the original poster is making the point that we're not far away (it's not a lost cause).
The most interesting stats in that lot are:
We lose possession a lot. Losing possession puts the team under pressure, especially in key areas and especially exposes us if we lose possession when full backs are attacking (we've shipped a lot of goals by teams playing into the areas behind our full backs). Improve our retention and it eases the pressure on the team as a whole. That might be as simple as coaching them to hit short passes rather than more ambitious longer passes.
Or, we don't have the players for a passing game. Neil Warnock got hammered (at Huddersfield I think) for not playing out from the back and he said 'we can't do that, I've got 2 centre backs who can't pass water'.
We attack down the wings and get crosses in - but we can all see that our crosses are poor quality and easily defended. I have been screaming since the NL promotion season that we need to work on the accuracy and 'dangerousness' of our crosses. With Rose and Wilson up front (and Conteh arriving from midfield) I think we could be a nightmare to defend against if we could just put crosses in a really dangerous area. I don't do stats but it feels to me like a very high percentage of our crosses don't go into a dangerous area. I think this is why Cropper was such a weapon for us, his long throws went into the danger area or hit a Town player (but the other areas of his game didn't justify him being in the team).
Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
The Jolley comparison is always going to get thrown in as soon as we go for anyone without any experience.
He had his flaws, I think he needed a bit of guidance, I generally found his style quite dull. But he wasn't THAT bad. In some ways his ending here was a mirror to the feel in the team now with Hurst going. We had/have the bones of a decent team, just a bit disjointed. But there's a lack of a real understanding as to what the team is about. At it's most basic level a bit of structure, understanding and attention to detail can rectify the issue at hand, which Limbrick did. But it only needs a bit of belief and confidence in the players to comfortably get into a better position, something Holloway did.
If Jolley was the choice of 1878 today, working the hypothetical world of us never having heard of him, I would fancy that they would make sure he had the support around him. Access to experienced heads who can direct him a bit, the correct set-up, the right data, the right sports science... Jolley came here with a big idea and vision but found himself selling tickets in the summer months because the club didn't know how to market things properly.
He hasn't gone onto be a success anywhere and I think he's probably done in the game. But I do wonder how he would have fared with a proper infrastructure around him, same with Bignot really. It doesn't concern me if we go for a bit of an unknown who lacks experience. Simply because I think the whole set-up will account for that and make sure it's not an issue.
You're right but that doesn't undermine the stats in general, the original poster is making the point that we're not far away (it's not a lost cause).
The most interesting stats in that lot are:
We lose possession a lot. Losing possession puts the team under pressure, especially in key areas and especially exposes us if we lose possession when full backs are attacking (we've shipped a lot of goals by teams playing into the areas behind our full backs). Improve our retention and it eases the pressure on the team as a whole. That might be as simple as coaching them to hit short passes rather than more ambitious longer passes.
Or, we don't have the players for a passing game. Neil Warnock got hammered (at Huddersfield I think) for not playing out from the back and he said 'we can't do that, I've got 2 centre backs who can't pass water'.
We attack down the wings and get crosses in - but we can all see that our crosses are poor quality and easily defended. I have been screaming since the NL promotion season that we need to work on the accuracy and 'dangerousness' of our crosses. With Rose and Wilson up front (and Conteh arriving from midfield) I think we could be a nightmare to defend against if we could just put crosses in a really dangerous area. I don't do stats but it feels to me like a very high percentage of our crosses don't go into a dangerous area. I think this is why Cropper was such a weapon for us, his long throws went into the danger area or hit a Town player (but the other areas of his game didn't justify him being in the team).
I agree we aren't that far away and I wasn't trying to undermine him, I was just merely stating that quite often in football you can find stats that support any arguement. I don't think we're defensive but I certainly wouldn't say we're an attacking team. I agree on the point about possession, I'd put that down to an insuffiecent game plan and our ability of how we used the ball. West Ham do it really really well under DM, they don't have the ball very often but when they do they are penetrative and direct with it, they set up to play on the counter which works for them but when they have prolonged periods of the ball they are quite lost. By direct I don't mean a long hopeful ball either, it's a ball with purpose and they transition with pace. It seems when we get the ball, it's passed around the back left to right a few seconds and if it's not into Conteh it's either pumped long or we lose it. I'm an advocate that this team has quality going through it, we've seen evidence of it. I reference Gillingham at home as my bench mark but we really did a job on them in and out of possession. I'll go back to pre season again but we seem to of lose the whole identity of the team we was trying to become. One thing that stood out to me in pre season was how good Harvey Rodgers was at bringing the ball out from defence and he'd often find himself towards the opposition box giving us an extra body and creating an overload in that area of the pitch. I can't remember seeing him progress past the half way line once in the past few weeks. Whoever comes in has players with ability to work with, but there's also underlying issues which was merely my point. Apologies if it came across a bit skewiffed.
The more I think about it, and having a second listen to the Stockwood interview, it feels like the board were wanting to change the manager to something more in line with the ethos they have, and that is more of a coaching structure in place, rather than your bog standard manager and assistant. Seems they have been chewing it over for a few weeks now and seriously for the last couple of weeks, so they didn't sound like they wanted to give him much time to turn it around and he presented them with the opportunity to strike off in a different direction.
Maybe they felt that the PH appointment was something that they inherited, rather than their choice, but being new to running a club, they went along with it, especially considering we were in a bad place in the league, and PH had form for rescuing a team in the past.
Once we went down, then keeping PH on wasn't a big gamble given his experience of that league and the fact he had got us out of it once before. Against all the odds, he achieved that at the first time of asking.
So, with the quick turnaround and the fact the manager had just got a promotion, again there was no need to be looking to replace him. Despite a ropey home record, and another slump in form, he achieved the record cup run and our highest position for 17 years, so again he has to be given another season to see where he can take us, and despite an ok start, the cracks soon started to appear and I think this is the point at which J&S thought that it was time they cast off all links with the past and get the structure in place that they see as the way forward. They can't have been too happy watching the big crowds turn up to witness the pretty drab matches and the deathly quiet atmosphere.
Not got any info that leads me to that conclusion; it's just a hunch.
The more I think about it, and having a second listen to the Stockwood interview, it feels like the board were wanting to change the manager to something more in line with the ethos they have, and that is more of a coaching structure in place, rather than your bog standard manager and assistant. Seems they have been chewing it over for a few weeks now and seriously for the last couple of weeks, so they didn't sound like they wanted to give him much time to turn it around and he presented them with the opportunity to strike off in a different direction.
Maybe they felt that the PH appointment was something that they inherited, rather than their choice, but being new to running a club, they went along with it, especially considering we were in a bad place in the league, and PH had form for rescuing a team in the past.
Once we went down, then keeping PH on wasn't a big gamble given his experience of that league and the fact he had got us out of it once before. Against all the odds, he achieved that at the first time of asking.
So, with the quick turnaround and the fact the manager had just got a promotion, again there was no need to be looking to replace him. Despite a ropey home record, and another slump in form, he achieved the record cup run and our highest position for 17 years, so again he has to be given another season to see where he can take us, and despite an ok start, the cracks soon started to appear and I think this is the point at which J&S thought that it was time they cast off all links with the past and get the structure in place that they see as the way forward. They can't have been too happy watching the big crowds turn up to witness the pretty drab matches and the deathly quiet atmosphere.
Not got any info that leads me to that conclusion; it's just a hunch.
You may well be right, up until now J+S have had a pragmatic 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' attitude but once it was broken...
Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
West Ham do it really really well under DM, they don't have the ball very often but when they do they are penetrative and direct with it,
We're in danger of having an intelligent and reasoned conversation here...
I think you hit the nail on the head with the word penetration (oo er missus). Every time I've seen them this season the build up and transition has been OK, not amazing but OK, but we don't create serious danger or enough serious danger in the penalty box and areas around the penalty box. We don't carry the ball into the box with dangerous intent and we don't hit crosses or passes that open up opportunities for our strikers or find space behind the defence. I would love to see Clifton and Khan encouraged to carry the ball into dangerous areas (like Bowen does for W Ham) and Hunt played just outside the box dinking little passes behind the centre backs.
I have also torn my hair out (what little I have) by Rose playing on his own and getting the ball lumped up to him but having nobody running off him for the knock down, it stifles any attack we have and gives possession straight back to the opponent. Wilson, Khan, Clifton or Eisa could be doing that and it would put the defence under pressure.
Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
These days, under JS & AP, we look a better prospect to the next manager/coach than we ever did under Fenty. That means we can expect a better list of candidates to choose from instead of whose the cheapest option that we can get to come here. That shows how far we have come over the last couple of years.
We're in danger of having an intelligent and reasoned conversation here...
I think you hit the nail on the head with the word penetration (oo er missus). Every time I've seen them this season the build up and transition has been OK, not amazing but OK, but we don't create serious danger or enough serious danger in the penalty box and areas around the penalty box. We don't carry the ball into the box with dangerous intent and we don't hit crosses or passes that open up opportunities for our strikers or find space behind the defence. I would love to see Clifton and Khan encouraged to carry the ball into dangerous areas (like Bowen does for W Ham) and Hunt played just outside the box dinking little passes behind the centre backs.
I have also torn my hair out (what little I have) by Rose playing on his own and getting the ball lumped up to him but having nobody running off him for the knock down, it stifles any attack we have and gives possession straight back to the opponent. Wilson, Khan, Clifton or Eisa could be doing that and it would put the defence under pressure.
The only midfielder we seem to have with the nous and ability to play through the lines ( another fancy coaching word ) is Conteh and Hunt. The others hold onto the ball for too long or just lack the ability to do so. It's percentage football as I was told many times as a youngster, you hit certain areas of the pitch with the ball as you're more likely to get a dangerous knockdown. 99% of the time our direct balls go straight down the throat of the defenders. Something we don't do, is run the channels.. Another West Ham reference coming here but Antonio does it so well for West Ham, I think Wilson could do this job for us, i'm not overly convinced by Danny Rose as a footballer, what he offers is unquestionable but his ability with the ball at his feet isn't fantastic and half the time he's looking to win a free kick rather than actually doing anything with the ball.
The only midfielder we seem to have with the nous and ability to play through the lines ( another fancy coaching word ) is Conteh and Hunt. The others hold onto the ball for too long or just lack the ability to do so. It's percentage football as I was told many times as a youngster, you hit certain areas of the pitch with the ball as you're more likely to get a dangerous knockdown. 99% of the time our direct balls go straight down the throat of the defenders. Something we don't do, is run the channels.. Another West Ham reference coming here but Antonio does it so well for West Ham, I think Wilson could do this job for us, i'm not overly convinced by Danny Rose as a footballer, what he offers is unquestionable but his ability with the ball at his feet isn't fantastic and half the time he's looking to win a free kick rather than actually doing anything with the ball.
I wonder if this is what PH asked Rose to do, as it was certainly a continuation of the McAtee and Taylor game plan.
You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
The only midfielder we seem to have with the nous and ability to play through the lines ( another fancy coaching word ) is Conteh and Hunt. The others hold onto the ball for too long or just lack the ability to do so. It's percentage football as I was told many times as a youngster, you hit certain areas of the pitch with the ball as you're more likely to get a dangerous knockdown. 99% of the time our direct balls go straight down the throat of the defenders. Something we don't do, is run the channels.. Another West Ham reference coming here but Antonio does it so well for West Ham, I think Wilson could do this job for us, i'm not overly convinced by Danny Rose as a footballer, what he offers is unquestionable but his ability with the ball at his feet isn't fantastic and half the time he's looking to win a free kick rather than actually doing anything with the ball.
Again I broadly agree with you even if I think you're a bit harsh on Rose.
Yes about running the channels (Ryan Taylor did this, not always but he was good at it when he did) and another of my bug bears, particularly with Khan, is that we don't want to knock the ball into the space behind the full backs and run onto it. We seem to get into a position where that is an option but turn inside or hold the ball up looking for a pass. I would rather that we turned the full back and forced him to race the attacking player. If we do that we increase the chances of getting a cross in or penetrating and we pull the defence out of position because the centre back has to cover the full back, so creating space in the middle. I single out Khan here because he has got the pace to do this, Clifton and Eisa could probably do it as well.
I have wondered if this was an instruction from PH or a lack of confidence/self belief in the players.
Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
I agree with you but that is exactly what McAtee and Talor did last season when one of them was injured.
Looking at his physique, I wonder if Wilson was bought/signed to play the Taylor role and Rose was supposed to be the McAtee role but Wilson's injury messed up that plan.
So Plan B became Rose playing both roles!
Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
If there’s a recent managerial appointment outcome we want to emulate, then it’s probably Kieran McKenna at Ipswich. I must admit to not having known much about him prior to his appointment, despite him having become assistant manager at Manchester United at the ripe old age of 32, but his record at Portman Road is absolutely outstanding.
He was appointed less than two years ago with Ipswich 12th in League One and steadied the ship before winning automatic promotion with 98 points last season. They’re currently 2nd in the Championship, 9 points ahead of Leeds in 3rd, with a game in hand. His win ratio is 60.0% over 95 league games, and has lost only 13.
If he takes them into the Premier League, then it would have to go down as the best EFL managerial appointment in a long time. He’s still only 37.
Of course, arbitrarily suggesting we should appoint the high ranking coach of a major club is just folly. McKenna is working so well in Suffolk presumably because he is well suited to being first-team manager, which doesn’t necessarily apply to every other number 2 in the country.
However, I assume there is something other than fluke that led Ipswich to him. In effect, they’ve identified a fantastic manager who just didn’t have that experience on his CV yet (because if he did, he wouldn’t have been going to Ipswich). If the right due diligence is done (and it should be whomever we appoint), I wouldn’t be at all opposed to someone young who has shown evidence of being an outstanding coach at a high-level, taking on their first role as a number 1. I appreciate that’s loosely the approach that Forest Green took with David Horsrman and it hasn’t been a roaring (or neighing) success so far, but if we can identify someone within our price range, and there’s sufficient evidence of their ability, then I think it’s a route we should consider.
It's funny you mention Forest Green and their start under new stewardship. In the two hour scripture that got binned, I highlighted FGR as another anomaly with regards stats and league position. I can't remember all the fine details now, but I know the basis of it was they have had more possession, more short passes, far fewer long balls, more through balls, the same amount of crosses, 2.4 more shots at goal per game, 0.5 more on target yet they sit 2 goals fewer, 1 goal conceded more and a point lower than us.
When people talk about nice football, entertaining football, if you take the stats that indicate attractive football, FGR display them yet find themselves struggling. What was a telling stat that might offer insight to why, they lead the way in being dispossessed, which I think was 11 times per game. So similar to Town, they're playing well, they're in the mix but individual errors are reducing their effectiveness.
What was most telling about Notts Co stats is the amount of short passes and the lack of unsuccessful touches, high pass success rate and low dispossession stats. They dominate the ball and they've mastered it to a point whereby they control games and therefore increase their probability of chances, in turn increasing their chances of goals. It's not rocket science but there is a fine margin between getting it right and getting it wrong. Grimsby and FGR have struggled to get the right side of that margin whereas Notts Co have spent a season in NL honing it and have done incredibly well to maintain that going into this season, and well done to them for it, I really enjoyed our game against them this season because it was just a good standard for this level.
Again I broadly agree with you even if I think you're a bit harsh on Rose.
Yes about running the channels (Ryan Taylor did this, not always but he was good at it when he did) and another of my bug bears, particularly with Khan, is that we don't want to knock the ball into the space behind the full backs and run onto it. We seem to get into a position where that is an option but turn inside or hold the ball up looking for a pass. I would rather that we turned the full back and forced him to race the attacking player. If we do that we increase the chances of getting a cross in or penetrating and we pull the defence out of position because the centre back has to cover the full back, so creating space in the middle. I single out Khan here because he has got the pace to do this, Clifton and Eisa could probably do it as well.
I have wondered if this was an instruction from PH or a lack of confidence/self belief in the players.
Totally agree, whenever our wide players get the ball they're forced to try and beat there man every single time. Never are they played in behind with something to get on the end of. Often it's they're coming inside or the ball goes backwards and 99% of the time it's the full back or closest central midfielder producing the ball into the box. I can probably count the number of times we've got someone to the byline on one hand. Full back overlapping runs are often ignored or used as a decoy run for the winger to come inside. I might have been a bit harsh on Rose, no doubt there's an effective player there but I wouldn't consider his strengths to be in the build up play so to speak like Ryan Taylor. Rose is more a modern day Kevin Phillips, bit of a nuisance and most effiecent around the 6 yard box as we've seen by the goals he's scored which makes it ever the more strange we aren't trying to get players to the byline on the regular and lifting one into the back post and leaving him up against a full back which should be a no contest in the air with his leap.
It's funny you mention Forest Green and their start under new stewardship. In the two hour scripture that got binned, I highlighted FGR as another anomaly with regards stats and league position. I can't remember all the fine details now, but I know the basis of it was they have had more possession, more short passes, far fewer long balls, more through balls, the same amount of crosses, 2.4 more shots at goal per game, 0.5 more on target yet they sit 2 goals fewer, 1 goal conceded more and a point lower than us.
When people talk about nice football, entertaining football, if you take the stats that indicate attractive football, FGR display them yet find themselves struggling. What was a telling stat that might offer insight to why, they lead the way in being dispossessed, which I think was 11 times per game. So similar to Town, they're playing well, they're in the mix but individual errors are reducing their effectiveness.
What was most telling about Notts Co stats is the amount of short passes and the lack of unsuccessful touches, high pass success rate and low dispossession stats. They dominate the ball and they've mastered it to a point whereby they control games and therefore increase their probability of chances, in turn increasing their chances of goals. It's not rocket science but there is a fine margin between getting it right and getting it wrong. Grimsby and FGR have struggled to get the right side of that margin whereas Notts Co have spent a season in NL honing it and have done incredibly well to maintain that going into this season, and well done to them for it, I really enjoyed our game against them this season because it was just a good standard for this level.
The data from a match is an in depth review of the game, AFTER THE EVENT. It doesn't affect the future in any way at all.
It is interesting to study each team and their pass completion rate, and the number of throw ins taken in the final third or whatever metric you want to use but the only thing that matters is the result. Not a possible result, not an unfortunate or unlucky or lucky result, just the actual result. It doesn't matter if for weeks on end the data says you are top of the tree in any stat you care to mention, the only stats that matter is goals scored and goals conceded.
If the analysis of the data shows what might be wrong you can try to implement it the next game, but that presents a whole different set of circumstances with a different opposition, different conditions different everything. That assumes you make the right diagnosis in the first place. Hurst would have been given the data analysis every week but either came to the wrong conclusion, or the analysis was wrong and in any event all the data is from something that has already happened.
There's only ten teams that have conceded less than us and 6 that have scored less. We have an XG of 1.02 which is the second worst in the division and an XG against of 1.31 which is the 5th best. Stats are useless if they aren't used in the greater context of things, yes we may put balls in the box but how many of them were headed away or didn't beat the first man? How many of the attacks down either side were successful attacks that resulted into a chance? How many of the opposition attacks resulted in a successful chance? . The biggest stat is that we've won the joint least games in the division and lost the last 5.
And this is where I referenced that the points column resulting in the departure of PH. You're not wrong in what you're saying but not doing anything to argue the case of us being negative. It doesn't matter whether the cross beat the first man or not, we've still got into a position for a cross and delivered it. You don't cross the ball if you're defending. Inability to deliver a good cross, inability to finish a good cross would both result in no goals, no points and a sacked manager, but that doesn't mean his football was defensive.
Its similar with where I said we lay bottom for attempts at goal through the middle, with 58% of them. That's not attacks, that's attempts. There's no rule that says you only score through the middle but I think it's fair to say you increase your chances if you have greater choice of angle and force the keeper to work harder. If I were to use stats to the detriment of how we've played then that would be one of them, in fact I mentioned it after the Colchester game, that we recycle wide and don't have the ability to vary where our attempts come from.
What I would add, is if you're not someone who subscribes into the statistical aspect and how they can paint certain pictures, I find it strange that you're using xG to disprove my thoughts. Either that or you're only interested in publicising the ones that not only highlight the lack of points, but ones that suggest PH had us playing terrible football as though that's the issue and not the points factor.
I just spent two hours writing a post with a detailed analysis on league statistics this season then chinned it off because it was too long winded and in the end - pointless. But I'll give the cliff notes because it defies what you're saying;
In terms of action zones, we had 33% action in the final third, 40% action in the middle third and 27% action in our third. So 73% of the game was played in the mid-attacking thirds. That doesn't look defensive to me.
We sit 9th in the league for crosses per game at 21. Mansfield are top with 26 and bottom has 15, the median is 20. So we're in the more attacking half of teams where crosses are concerned.
We sit 10th for possession on 49.9%, again in the top half for having the ball, which doesn't sound defensive.
Interestingly, 39% of our attacks came down the left, 40% down the right and 21% down the middle. Despite the origins being marginally in favour of the right, of our actual chances created, 28% came down the left which happens to be the highest in the league, 14% down the right and 58% through the middle which happens to be bottom. It shows that our left side has been far more effective than the left, including defensively where 18% of chances against has come down the right and 15% down the left. It suggests this whole LB thing is a myth and it's better than our right.
We're 3rd in the league for unsuccessful touches, with 19.3 per game, which might contribute towards an 18th place position for successful pass %age at 68.1%.
If you took those stats as they are for now, you could argue that actually, whether we setup based on the opposition or not we actually have the ball in the final two thirds nearly three quarters of the game. The issue isn't in how we setup but the amount of unsuccessful touches which likely leads to loss of possession and failed attacks. Those individual errors can't be attributed to the way we setup and are beyond the control of any coach.
We average 306 short passes per game (highest 523, lowest 227 and median 347) and 84 long balls per game (highest 87 lowest 54...if I remember right). We were 7th for long balls, and it might be reasonable to think that if the stats are showing lots of unsuccessful touches, and a low pass success rate that when the form dropped he began to find a combination between players making fewer mistakes (dropping Hunt..?) and bypassing that area together, which might be supported by the fact we're 3rd in offensive aerial duels won at 31.3%, making it one of our strengths. When you say play to our strengths, statistically that is one.
I know you love stats but for those who don't and believe they offer no value, I've just given some that reflect that in comparison with the rest of the league there's nothing at all to suggest we're defensive. There's evidence to suggest our lower shots at goal and shots on target ratio can be attributed to individual error in giving the ball away, and perhaps a lack of creating chances through the middle hinders us but we are far from conclusively defensive.
My personal view is that people want to believe we're playing worse than we are because it aids the narrative. The lack of points on the board has been enough to cost PH his job, with the second matrix the uncharacteristic amount of goals conceded an attributed failure, but everything else I didn't see as major failure. We've been no better or worse than the vast majority of teams, with only Barrow and Mansfield the sides I would say dominated us throughout and Notts Co who, despite us having good spells against, really impressed me with how they played which stats back up too. Everyone else is within touching distance of each other and there's nothing other than being too close to the project that says we're poor in respect of how we're playing outside the columns that read goals for, goals against and points. Someone posted in a thread somewhere that we look top 5 in between the boxes, bottom 5 in the boxes which I think is a great assessment but one that coupled with above doesn't mean or suggest we're defensive. We're a nats member of a tweak away in both boxes before we have every realistic chance of progressing up the table which wouldn't be true if we were a defensive side.
Stats are a way of over complicating and over analysing things, that was Pauls down fall, setting up based on the opponents, rather then playing our best eleven. We need a settle starting eleven and stick to a formation so the players have clear plan. Also it a 18 man squad game, start with your best eleven and ulitise the bench and proactive in making changes, if the game is not panning out. I hope when we are defending corners we leave a couple of players near the halfway line, that means less opponents (hopefully CB) in our penalty box, which reduces the chance of conceeding and might get more second ball. Never could workout why we also have all the players back defending a corner. Stats have their place in football, lets not over complicate for the players.
Just been watching SSN and Cowley is on there. Mentioned 3 Teams are apparently in for him; us Lincoln and I didn’t catch the 3rd. Comes across very well, although, I thought his clothing was straight out JF’s Radical collection! I certainly think he is someone that would definitely be on our radar.
He also mentioned about the want to work with someone where they had the same views and a direct end product to focus on. Saying that he likes working towards a goal that is seen throughout the club.
And this is where I referenced that the points column resulting in the departure of PH. You're not wrong in what you're saying but not doing anything to argue the case of us being negative. It doesn't matter whether the cross beat the first man or not, we've still got into a position for a cross and delivered it. You don't cross the ball if you're defending. Inability to deliver a good cross, inability to finish a good cross would both result in no goals, no points and a sacked manager, but that doesn't mean his football was defensive.
Its similar with where I said we lay bottom for attempts at goal through the middle, with 58% of them. That's not attacks, that's attempts. There's no rule that says you only score through the middle but I think it's fair to say you increase your chances if you have greater choice of angle and force the keeper to work harder. If I were to use stats to the detriment of how we've played then that would be one of them, in fact I mentioned it after the Colchester game, that we recycle wide and don't have the ability to vary where our attempts come from.
What I would add, is if you're not someone who subscribes into the statistical aspect and how they can paint certain pictures, I find it strange that you're using xG to disprove my thoughts. Either that or you're only interested in publicising the ones that not only highlight the lack of points, but ones that suggest PH had us playing terrible football as though that's the issue and not the points factor.
I never once said I wasn't interested in statistics, I just think they can be misleading in certain aspects. I said in a previous point I don't subscribe to the fact that we was defensive, nor do I believe we was attacking but we was definitely a negative team. We set up with 5 defenders at home against a team that conceded 26 goals this season and allowed them all the space in the world to play, we played 2 right backs with 2 left backs on the bench in another game. The football was very negative and focused more on what the opposition could do rather than what us as a team can do to hurt them and very displeasing to watch and provided the stats to prove that.
Just been watching SSN and Cowley is on there. Mentioned 3 Teams are apparently in for him; us Lincoln and I didn’t catch the 3rd. Comes across very well, although, I thought his clothing was straight out JF’s Radical collection! I certainly think he is someone that would definitely be on our radar.
He also mentioned about the want to work with someone where they had the same views and a direct end product to focus on. Saying that he likes working towards a goal that is seen throughout the club.
Third was Bradford, who if you believe the bookies they're close to being made permanent managers as they've moved into 4/5 favourites for the job.
Just been watching SSN and Cowley is on there. Mentioned 3 Teams are apparently in for him; us Lincoln and I didn’t catch the 3rd. Comes across very well, although, I thought his clothing was straight out JF’s Radical collection! I certainly think he is someone that would definitely be on our radar.
He also mentioned about the want to work with someone where they had the same views and a direct end product to focus on. Saying that he likes working towards a goal that is seen throughout the club.
Surprised they openly mentioned the teams supposedly in for them.
Does Matt Dean trying to get them on air last night count as us being interested? I personally don't think we will be and I hope we aren't. Not a big fan of them myself.
Can't see Lincoln going back to them either, which leaves T'Bantams.
Oh come on Local Lad get with the programme! It's not the stats of the league table that matter, it's not that we score less than the opposition in most games, it's not that we don't win many games, its a retrospective analysis of games that have gone that will have no bearing on the outcome of the next match that is important!
Fair play to Chris and anybody who believes this stuff. The stats prove we are not defensive at all, so all is well I suppose. To be honest I wonder why with the stats at his disposal PH couldn't effect a cure?
I know I'm not the only one who struggles to understand your blindness to how data/statistics play a part in the modern game. I'll try to be clear with where my angle is and the reason I take the time to post on the topic.
PH lost his job because he didn't amass enough points on the board in the time we've had this season. It doesn't get any simpler than that. You don't need any analysis or statistical background to understand that in a results dominated business that is why he has lost his job and much as I still like PH, I didn't disagree with the decision. A belief - whether on the eye and judgement or whether you utilise data - can only stretch so far before you start to panic and I think even the most patient of us were starting to step into that panic zone, or certainly have it in our headlights.
Within all this conversation about what we want from a new manager, a lot is being said about how they have to play attractive football, stop worrying about the opposition, attack teams etc, insinuating that we have not done that this season. Some even go so far as to say that performances have been woeful and is the main reason PH needed to go, not the points on the board.
My argument - using statistics - is that we find ourselves in the top half of the table for statistics that are indicative of a team seeking to attack. Be mindful that I said seeking to attack. If you use LocalLads info on xG and when you look at our shots on goal and shots on target we feature in the bottom half and reflect a team that isn't. It's identifying a team who is attacking but just not good at it, or a team who is playing defensively.
The balance is where the eye of the fan meets the stats and whether they match. The stats say we spend 73% of the time in the middle and attacking thirds, yet if we were a defensive side, surely that would be much lower? We're not exciting and we don't attack teams, yet we're up there for crosses. The fact they might be bad ones isn't helpful but we're in a position to get them in, that's not indicative of a defensive side.
The disparity between possession and successful passes shows we've been wasteful, something not factored into any form of style or setup and reliant on the players delivering quality. That thought can be evidenced with a high rate of unsuccessful touches suggesting therein lies a part of the problem, some individuals ability to control and or pass the ball and is where I would imagine peoples view of woeful comes in.
If PH had persevered with Alex Hunt, who we all recognise as having some talent but often wasteful and our results didn't improve, PH would be annihilated for not doing something about it. Again, whether PH used his eye and judgement or the statistics to determine his decision he had to make it and I use AH because I think it was more apparent to all. But when PH is responsible for the maintenance of his job in getting it right, it makes it less surprising if he's making decisions that seem unusual to us if there's evidence in numbers that aren't visible to the eye in the hope of turning our fortunes around. There's people saying his mistake was not changing and adapting to turn things around, when it's more likely he believed in the system (backed up by statistics?) but not the blend of players or the route through and that's where he changed things, ironically to the displeasure of fans.
The secondary reason I find this important and interesting is when you place it in context with other teams in our division. With the exception of Notts Co, there aren't any teams that dominate the statistics that indicate the attractive and entertaining football we're craving. That isn't to say it's not possible, I thought Notts Co were brilliant, Barrow were half decent when they were better than us and Mansfield, although not free-flowing were a very competent team who will lose very few this season but they weren't awe-inspiring. We're using a league position to suggest we're a terrible team, but we're not, we're a team who are playing just as well as most but not quite good enough in either box to make the league table reflect the wider data. Ultimately that's the nature of the game so you can use that to tell me it's why PH had to go, but I'm not disputing that, its evident in stats and on the eye.
That context is important for our expectations of the next manager. If we are - according to statistics - relatively forward thinking in what we've done compared to our competitors yet the belief is we're defensive then the next guy is inevitably going to be judged more harshly. It suggests people have an expectation that he needs to deliver a level of football beyond what is considered within the norm for L2 and that worries me knowing how impatient Town fans can often be. In truth, I'm firmly of the belief that if we win the performance is more often than not overstated and when we lose it's understated, the fact is points will always be the primary motivator. That being the case, so long as we see an upturn in results the football will be considered fine from most.
I have no connection to data in any sort of profession or hobby, I recognise it has a place in all walks of life so take the interest in what it might tell us that proves factual information rather than emotive information. People wouldn't like the idea of Conteh being poor for the team because we've built him up as our modern hero, but if the data showed something the eye forgave or made allowances for because of the emotional interest, does that help the team? It won't ever beat the points on the board, so as long as we get them and we can all agree that anything in between is irrelevant then the discussion will never need to rear it's head. But when fans look to align poor performance with poor league standing when it's not the case then I think data has a place to bring us more centralised in our understanding of where we are as a team and provide a basis to form a more realistic expectation of the size of improvement we hope to see.
I know I'm not the only one who struggles to understand your blindness to how data/statistics play a part in the modern game. I'll try to be clear with where my angle is and the reason I take the time to post on the topic.
PH lost his job because he didn't amass enough points on the board in the time we've had this season. It doesn't get any simpler than that. You don't need any analysis or statistical background to understand that in a results dominated business that is why he has lost his job and much as I still like PH, I didn't disagree with the decision. A belief - whether on the eye and judgement or whether you utilise data - can only stretch so far before you start to panic and I think even the most patient of us were starting to step into that panic zone, or certainly have it in our headlights.
Within all this conversation about what we want from a new manager, a lot is being said about how they have to play attractive football, stop worrying about the opposition, attack teams etc, insinuating that we have not done that this season. Some even go so far as to say that performances have been woeful and is the main reason PH needed to go, not the points on the board.
My argument - using statistics - is that we find ourselves in the top half of the table for statistics that are indicative of a team seeking to attack. Be mindful that I said seeking to attack. If you use LocalLads info on xG and when you look at our shots on goal and shots on target we feature in the bottom half and reflect a team that isn't. It's identifying a team who is attacking but just not good at it, or a team who is playing defensively.
The balance is where the eye of the fan meets the stats and whether they match. The stats say we spend 73% of the time in the middle and attacking thirds, yet if we were a defensive side, surely that would be much lower? We're not exciting and we don't attack teams, yet we're up there for crosses. The fact they might be bad ones isn't helpful but we're in a position to get them in, that's not indicative of a defensive side.
The disparity between possession and successful passes shows we've been wasteful, something not factored into any form of style or setup and reliant on the players delivering quality. That thought can be evidenced with a high rate of unsuccessful touches suggesting therein lies a part of the problem, some individuals ability to control and or pass the ball and is where I would imagine peoples view of woeful comes in.
If PH had persevered with Alex Hunt, who we all recognise as having some talent but often wasteful and our results didn't improve, PH would be annihilated for not doing something about it. Again, whether PH used his eye and judgement or the statistics to determine his decision he had to make it and I use AH because I think it was more apparent to all. But when PH is responsible for the maintenance of his job in getting it right, it makes it less surprising if he's making decisions that seem unusual to us if there's evidence in numbers that aren't visible to the eye in the hope of turning our fortunes around. There's people saying his mistake was not changing and adapting to turn things around, when it's more likely he believed in the system (backed up by statistics?) but not the blend of players or the route through and that's where he changed things, ironically to the displeasure of fans.
The secondary reason I find this important and interesting is when you place it in context with other teams in our division. With the exception of Notts Co, there aren't any teams that dominate the statistics that indicate the attractive and entertaining football we're craving. That isn't to say it's not possible, I thought Notts Co were brilliant, Barrow were half decent when they were better than us and Mansfield, although not free-flowing were a very competent team who will lose very few this season but they weren't awe-inspiring. We're using a league position to suggest we're a terrible team, but we're not, we're a team who are playing just as well as most but not quite good enough in either box to make the league table reflect the wider data. Ultimately that's the nature of the game so you can use that to tell me it's why PH had to go, but I'm not disputing that, its evident in stats and on the eye.
That context is important for our expectations of the next manager. If we are - according to statistics - relatively forward thinking in what we've done compared to our competitors yet the belief is we're defensive then the next guy is inevitably going to be judged more harshly. It suggests people have an expectation that he needs to deliver a level of football beyond what is considered within the norm for L2 and that worries me knowing how impatient Town fans can often be. In truth, I'm firmly of the belief that if we win the performance is more often than not overstated and when we lose it's understated, the fact is points will always be the primary motivator. That being the case, so long as we see an upturn in results the football will be considered fine from most.
I have no connection to data in any sort of profession or hobby, I recognise it has a place in all walks of life so take the interest in what it might tell us that proves factual information rather than emotive information. People wouldn't like the idea of Conteh being poor for the team because we've built him up as our modern hero, but if the data showed something the eye forgave or made allowances for because of the emotional interest, does that help the team? It won't ever beat the points on the board, so as long as we get them and we can all agree that anything in between is irrelevant then the discussion will never need to rear it's head. But when fans look to align poor performance with poor league standing when it's not the case then I think data has a place to bring us more centralised in our understanding of where we are as a team and provide a basis to form a more realistic expectation of the size of improvement we hope to see.
I can't believe I am the only one to think the most important thing in football is the manager and the players and stats are just a modern way of looking at a match that has finished.
I cannot understand why you can't see that all data relates to something that is retrospective. It doesn't matter what it says, does it? Whether the data says we do this that or the other it is irrelevant.
I think it is clear Davies and Pearson will get the dual role of running the team training / selection - whether or not they win at Slough. They will have a zoom call before every game with the top coach assigned to us along with SAE (could be a few World Cup tickets up for grabs in 2034). Will anyone else be required?
Blundell Park - The Home of Grimsby Town Football Club (still)
I can't believe I am the only one to think the most important thing in football is the manager and the players and stats are just a modern way of looking at a match that has finished.
I cannot understand why you can't see that all data relates to something that is retrospective. It doesn't matter what it says, does it? Whether the data says we do this that or the other it is irrelevant.
So if the next manager comes in, sits back and plays counter attacking football where we only have possession of the ball for 30% of the game and we spend 80% of the game in the defensive and middle third with only 20% of the time in the attacking third, so long as we win you'll not be fussed?
With everything you've mentioned about negative, defensive, boring to watch football coupled with the only thing that matters is the result, then you'd happily watch football played with the above metrics?
If so, then every opinion and contribution you've made to the debate on playing style has been contradictory irrelevance, because all that matters is the three points.
I'm obviously talking about a scenario that is unlikely to happen, but you can't make critiques of a playing style you've considered defensive because it hasn't got points on the board, but then praise a more proven defensive playing style if it does get points. Whereas the rest of us debate the pros, cons and opinions of where our performances lie on any scale of entertainment matrix, if we haven't got three points then any aspect of the game is not worth discussing because the only thing that mattered is the points taken from it.
It would also be worth noting that your assessment of any game is a personal assessment of retrospective actions, they don't mean anything going into the next game, so when the time comes for debating the need for a managerial change, everyone's assessments have no relevance because everything has been retrospective and the only focus is on the next game which could be different. If data is not a useable tool to determine any factors of performance due to it being retrospective, so is personal assessment. One can't be true and not the other.
I can't believe I am the only one to think the most important thing in football is the manager and the players and stats are just a modern way of looking at a match that has finished.
I cannot understand why you can't see that all data relates to something that is retrospective. It doesn't matter what it says, does it? Whether the data says we do this that or the other it is irrelevant.
So if the next manager comes in, sits back and plays counter attacking football where we only have possession of the ball for 30% of the game and we spend 80% of the game in the defensive and middle third with only 20% of the time in the attacking third, so long as we win you'll not be fussed?
With everything you've mentioned about negative, defensive, boring to watch football coupled with the only thing that matters is the result, then you'd happily watch football played with the above metrics?
If so, then every opinion and contribution you've made to the debate on playing style has been contradictory irrelevance, because all that matters is the three points.
I'm obviously talking about a scenario that is unlikely to happen, but you can't make critiques of a playing style you've considered defensive because it hasn't got points on the board, but then praise a more proven defensive playing style if it does get points. Whereas the rest of us debate the pros, cons and opinions of where our performances lie on any scale of entertainment matrix, if we haven't got three points then any aspect of the game is not worth discussing because the only thing that mattered is the points taken from it.
It would also be worth noting that your assessment of any game is a personal assessment of retrospective actions, they don't mean anything going into the next game, so when the time comes for debating the need for a managerial change, everyone's assessments have no relevance because everything has been retrospective and the only focus is on the next game which could be different. If data is not a useable tool to determine any factors of performance due to it being retrospective, so is personal assessment. One can't be true and not the other.
None of that makes sense. Can you provide any example of how data from a previous game will have any effect on the next game?
None of that makes sense. Can you provide any example of how data from a previous game will have any effect on the next game?
I think that’s a bit like arguing it doesn’t matter that Labour are 25% ahead in the polls because the poll was yesterday and the election is tommorrow.
I think that’s a bit like arguing it doesn’t matter that Labour are 25% ahead in the polls because the poll was yesterday and the election is tommorrow.
None of that makes sense. Can you provide any example of how data from a previous game will have any effect on the next game?
Really simplified but for example: 5 games into the season the data shows that your team has a winger that’s really effective, one that’s not. The data on the opposition shows they concede more goals down the right hand side. The data would indicate you play your effective winger on our left wing vs their weaker side.
Danny Cowley was on SSN last night and he was talking about vacancies and what he was looking for. Honestly it struck me like Stockwood was talking about values etc .I might be reading too much into it but I think he's the next Town boss.
None of that makes sense. Can you provide any example of how data from a previous game will have any effect on the next game?
Data from ONE game will probably offer you nothing. It might - as it has done with us so far - highlight that the result might not reflect the action of the game. But as you’ve said, the result is the only thing that matters so that data and the assessment you’ve made is out the window, it’s all retrospective and therefore irrelevant.
Take data from multiple games and you can identify patterns, kind of how I’ve done with my posts. For example, Newport are the only team to have a marked difference in the frequency of attacks, with 47% down the right side. Now as a manager that would be useful to know as I can focus on that side a little in training. I can select my best player for the particular threat Newport feel they have.
I get the feeling you think that I’m suggesting data is the only way in which we determine success. I’m not. No-one would argue that anything other than points matter in terms of ACTUAL progression.
I’ve been generally happy with performances this season. I think at times we’ve played some of our best football in the last 20 years but there have obviously been weak spots within that. More recently, some of that good football has started to ebb away as the manager/players perhaps start to feel the heat. Others have said it’s the most turgid, boring, defensive football they’ve seen. The span of opinion - based on the eye - is wide ranging. I’ve offered some numbers to suggest that within the context of our league we are actually in the top half for some INDICATORS of positive football, they’re not proof.
Fans will ultimately have their thoughts on entertainment value on what they see, and why would they not? No-one sits in the stands with iPads and real time data to say this frustration I’m feeling is unwarranted because stats are good. We have a vested emotional interest and we want to enjoy the football.
But this is a competitive league and it won’t always be the case that we rock up and simply walk over teams. Performances are likely to be relatively level affairs that can very easily be misinterpreted given our emotional interest. As the owners have often said, we need to take emotion out of it. This is when data comes in and gives you information. It’s a supplementary tool that helps us make more informed decisions rather than just emotionally charged and therefore potentially rash decisions.
Really simplified but for example: 5 games into the season the data shows that your team has a winger that’s really effective, one that’s not. The data on the opposition shows they concede more goals down the right hand side. The data would indicate you play your effective winger on our left wing vs their weaker side.
I suppose you could lump everything that has happened in football for decades as "data" to provide an example like that, which is fair enough.
Even in that simple example you go down rabbit holes. Is our winger on one side better because he has a better full back behind him? So what do you do, swap them both to the other side? What if the opposing manager changes his line up?
I suppose you could lump everything that has happened in football for decades as "data" to provide an example like that, which is fair enough.
Even in that simple example you go down rabbit holes. Is our winger on one side better because he has a better full back behind him? So what do you do, swap them both to the other side? What if the opposing manager changes his line up?
True, these are variables & the more you factor them in & understand them the more useful and true your data will be. No data will factor in everything, the more accurate info/data you have though the more likely you are to make a correct decision. It’s all about giving yourself as a manager/management team as good a chance as possible to get that decision right.
It’s like having better players, it doesn’t guarantee success but it gives you a better chance. Data is the same, less of an impact but deemed by the club as worth the investment of an analyst & the tools for him to do his job.
I just spent two hours writing a post with a detailed analysis on league statistics this season then chinned it off because it was too long winded and in the end - pointless. But I'll give the cliff notes because it defies what you're saying;
In terms of action zones, we had 33% action in the final third, 40% action in the middle third and 27% action in our third. So 73% of the game was played in the mid-attacking thirds. That doesn't look defensive to me.
We sit 9th in the league for crosses per game at 21. Mansfield are top with 26 and bottom has 15, the median is 20. So we're in the more attacking half of teams where crosses are concerned.
We sit 10th for possession on 49.9%, again in the top half for having the ball, which doesn't sound defensive.
Interestingly, 39% of our attacks came down the left, 40% down the right and 21% down the middle. Despite the origins being marginally in favour of the right, of our actual chances created, 28% came down the left which happens to be the highest in the league, 14% down the right and 58% through the middle which happens to be bottom. It shows that our left side has been far more effective than the left, including defensively where 18% of chances against has come down the right and 15% down the left. It suggests this whole LB thing is a myth and it's better than our right.
We're 3rd in the league for unsuccessful touches, with 19.3 per game, which might contribute towards an 18th place position for successful pass %age at 68.1%.
If you took those stats as they are for now, you could argue that actually, whether we setup based on the opposition or not we actually have the ball in the final two thirds nearly three quarters of the game. The issue isn't in how we setup but the amount of unsuccessful touches which likely leads to loss of possession and failed attacks. Those individual errors can't be attributed to the way we setup and are beyond the control of any coach.
We average 306 short passes per game (highest 523, lowest 227 and median 347) and 84 long balls per game (highest 87 lowest 54...if I remember right). We were 7th for long balls, and it might be reasonable to think that if the stats are showing lots of unsuccessful touches, and a low pass success rate that when the form dropped he began to find a combination between players making fewer mistakes (dropping Hunt..?) and bypassing that area together, which might be supported by the fact we're 3rd in offensive aerial duels won at 31.3%, making it one of our strengths. When you say play to our strengths, statistically that is one.
I know you love stats but for those who don't and believe they offer no value, I've just given some that reflect that in comparison with the rest of the league there's nothing at all to suggest we're defensive. There's evidence to suggest our lower shots at goal and shots on target ratio can be attributed to individual error in giving the ball away, and perhaps a lack of creating chances through the middle hinders us but we are far from conclusively defensive.
My personal view is that people want to believe we're playing worse than we are because it aids the narrative. The lack of points on the board has been enough to cost PH his job, with the second matrix the uncharacteristic amount of goals conceded an attributed failure, but everything else I didn't see as major failure. We've been no better or worse than the vast majority of teams, with only Barrow and Mansfield the sides I would say dominated us throughout and Notts Co who, despite us having good spells against, really impressed me with how they played which stats back up too. Everyone else is within touching distance of each other and there's nothing other than being too close to the project that says we're poor in respect of how we're playing outside the columns that read goals for, goals against and points. Someone posted in a thread somewhere that we look top 5 in between the boxes, bottom 5 in the boxes which I think is a great assessment but one that coupled with above doesn't mean or suggest we're defensive. We're a nats member of a tweak away in both boxes before we have every realistic chance of progressing up the table which wouldn't be true if we were a defensive side.
I'm not picking a fight but, we sit in 21st position, not scoring but conceding goals. So your stats show we run about the pitch in some semblance of order and are fair to middling with crosses, shots off/on target whilst the only stats that matter show we are crap.
Apparently the chairman told matchday staff last Tuesday that they had plans to talk to the Cowleys.
From someone who was there
Danny Cowley himself said that there's interest from us, whether or not we get to speak with him is a different matter as there's clubs further along the process than we are.
Apparently the chairman told matchday staff last Tuesday that they had plans to talk to the Cowleys.
From someone who was there
Do we really think Jason would so loose lipped about something like that?
You've seen how respectful and tactful he's been in the two interviews post Doncaster. Surely he's not the type to say something like that to a general audience.
It's probably like 99% of the other rumours on here - fabricated or misinterpreted.
I can't believe I am the only one to think the most important thing in football is the manager and the players and stats are just a modern way of looking at a match that has finished.
I cannot understand why you can't see that all data relates to something that is retrospective. It doesn't matter what it says, does it? Whether the data says we do this that or the other it is irrelevant.
So why is it that just about every club in the EFL and Premiership are using stats on a daily basis?
True, these are variables & the more you factor them in & understand them the more useful and true your data will be. No data will factor in everything, the more accurate info/data you have though the more likely you are to make a correct decision. It’s all about giving yourself as a manager/management team as good a chance as possible to get that decision right.
It’s like having better players, it doesn’t guarantee success but it gives you a better chance. Data is the same, less of an impact but deemed by the club as worth the investment of an analyst & the tools for him to do his job.
That's the trouble though. As you say it cannot factor in everything so you are likely to come to the wrong conclusion. Give the same data to 10 data analysts and they will give contrasting interpretations; 10 managers would then also interpret the results differently so its just fools gold. It's interesting but solves nothing. Isn't that right Ska?!
That's the trouble though. As you say it cannot factor in everything so you are likely to come to the wrong conclusion. Give the same data to 10 data analysts and they will give contrasting interpretations; 10 managers would then also interpret the results differently so its just fools gold. It's interesting but solves nothing. Isn't that right Ska?!
Jesus H…..are you still banging on against data?! It’s just ridiculous. It just looks silly. You really don’t have the point you think you have, and you’re just straw manning anyone else who can see a use for it in any job.
That's the trouble though. As you say it cannot factor in everything so you are likely to come to the wrong conclusion. Give the same data to 10 data analysts and they will give contrasting interpretations; 10 managers would then also interpret the results differently so its just fools gold. It's interesting but solves nothing. Isn't that right Ska?!
As if JS (who I don’t think was at the match) is going to tell stewards and turnstile operators his next manager choice before sacking Hurst. If anyone believes this can you PM me because I’ve got some magic beans for sale.
Danny Cowley himself said that there's interest from us, whether or not we get to speak with him is a different matter as there's clubs further along the process than we are.
This seems to be the unpopular opinion on here, but I’m not at all opposed to Cowley, personally. Or to put it another way, if we were to go down the route of taking an established name from the merry go round, he’d by my top pick of the realistic candidates.
His record at Lincoln is absolutely outstanding. Just to refresh your memories, this is what he achieved there:
- Season 1: National League title (99 points), FA Cup quarter-final (Lincoln had finished 13th the season before)
- Season 2: League Two play-offs (7th place, 75 points), EFL Trophy winners
- Season 3: League Two champions (85 points)
- Season 4: Leaves after 7 games with Lincoln 5th in League One
Take that in isolation, and it’s a phenomenal record. In pure positional terms, it’d be the equivalent of taking Town from where we are now to 13th in the Championship.
There seems to be two primary arguments against him. The first is that he’s failed since leaving Lincoln, but I don’t think that’s an entirely fair assessment.
He took over Huddersfield with the Terriers second from bottom in the Championship, with a single point from their opening 6 games. By the time Covid paused the season in March 2020, he’d taken them 3 places clear of the relegation zone to 18th. By the time he was relieved of his duties in July, they were 17th and effectively safe, with a single game to go. The PPG for games under Cowley’s control would have had Huddersfield finish 13th, and you have to factor in that he inherited a struggling team.
His record at Pompey was also actually very good…for the most part. He went to Fratton Park in March ‘21, won 6 out of his first 12 games and signed a new, “long-term” deal.
Roughly a year ago, Cowley had Portsmouth 4th in League One with 3 games in hand on the 3 sides above them. Then, in fairness, he took only 9 points from their next 11 games, and was sacked with Pompey in 12th place.
But really, going back even to his time at Braintree (and even Concord Rangers) where his record was also brilliant, those 11 games that saw him sacked represent the only real period of “failure” in a management career full of meaningful successes.
To the second issue people seem to have; on reporting Cowley’s sacking at Huddersfield the Yorkshire Post describes his football as “often pragmatic rather than pretty”. I understand why this puts people off, the football at BP has been mostly turgid ever since we got back to the EFL the first time realistically, but I would also argue that Huddersfield required a pragmatic approach at the time, and it worked.
For me, there are 5 clear priorities that we need to work through, in this order:
1. Avoid relegation this season at all costs 2. Get the club performing in-line with budget / expectation 3. Get the club performing above budget / expectation 4. Win promotion from League Two 5. Get the club playing attractive football
For some, I imagine that 4 and 5 might be interchangeable, but ultimately if we were to complete the first 4 over the course of the next 2 or 3 years, I imagine that would be a pretty enjoyable experience in the main. Certainly better than anything we’ve experienced for the past quarter of a century (brief play-off campaigns and cup runs aside).
Cowley’s record suggests he’d keep us up in his sleep, and depressing an objective as that represents, the alternative is absolutely unthinkable. We simply must not go down for a third time.
I also don’t think there’s too much wrong with a functional manager at this moment in time. Our team is dysfunctional; it is screaming out for function. Perhaps the harsh reality is that we are another appointment away from champagne football.
There are no guarantees in football, but I think Danny Cowley would be a very solid appointment for a struggling League Two side, and quite possibly less risky than the upcoming coach / manager route. I’d be happy enough, certainly.
This seems to be the unpopular opinion on here, but I’m not at all opposed to Cowley, personally. Or to put it another way, if we were to go down the route of taking an established name from the merry go round, he’d by my top pick of the realistic candidates.
His record at Lincoln is absolutely outstanding. Just to refresh your memories, this is what he achieved there:
- Season 1: National League title (99 points), FA Cup quarter-final (Lincoln had finished 13th the season before)
- Season 2: League Two play-offs (7th place, 75 points), EFL Trophy winners
- Season 3: League Two champions (85 points)
- Season 4: Leaves after 7 games with Lincoln 5th in League One
Take that in isolation, and it’s a phenomenal record. In pure positional terms, it’d be the equivalent of taking Town from where we are now to 13th in the Championship.
There seems to be two primary arguments against him. The first is that he’s failed since leaving Lincoln, but I don’t think that’s an entirely fair assessment.
He took over Huddersfield with the Terriers second from bottom in League One, with a single point from their opening 6 games. By the time Covid paused the season in March 2020, he’d taken them 3 places clear of the relegation zone to 18th. By the time he was relieved of his duties in July, they were 17th and effectively safe, with a single game to go. The PPG for games under Cowley’s control would have had Huddersfield finish 13th, and you have to factor in that he inherited a struggling team.
His record at Pompey was also actually very good…for the most part. He went to Fratton Park in March ‘21, won 6 out of his first 21 games and signed a new, “long-term” deal.
Roughly a year ago, Cowley had Portsmouth 4th in League One with 3 games in hand on the 3 sides above them. Then, in fairness, he took only 9 points from their next 11 games, and was sacked with Pompey in 12th place.
But really, going back even to his time at Braintree (and even Concord Rangers) where his record was also brilliant, those 11 games that saw him sacked represent the only real period of “failure” in a management career full of meaningful successes.
To the second issue people seem to have; on reporting Cowley’s sacking at Huddersfield the Yorkshire Post describes his football as “often pragmatic rather than pretty”. I understand why this puts people off, the football at BP has been mostly turgid ever since we got back to the EFL the first time realistically, but I would also argue that Huddersfield required a pragmatic approach at the time, and it worked.
For me, there are 5 clear priorities that we need to work through, in this order:
1. Avoid relegation this season at all costs 2. Get the club performing in-line with budget / expectation 3. Get the club performing above budget / expectation 4. Win promotion from League Two 5. Get the club playing attractive football
For some, I imagine that 4 and 5 might be interchangeable, but ultimately if we were to complete the first 4 over the course of the next 2 or 3 years, I imagine that would be a pretty enjoyable experience in the main. Certainly better than anything we’ve experienced for the past quarter of a century (brief play-off campaigns and cup runs aside).
Cowley’s record suggests he’d keep us up in his sleep, and depressing an objective as that represents, the alternative is absolutely unthinkable. We simply must not go down for a third time.
I also don’t think there’s too much wrong with a functional manager at this moment in time. Our team is dysfunctional; it is screaming out for function. Perhaps the harsh reality is that we are another appointment away from champagne football.
There are no guarantees in football, but I think Danny Cowley would be a very solid appointment for a struggling League Two side, and quite possibly less risky than the upcoming coach / manager route. I’d be happy enough, certainly.
Aye mate, I totally agree. I don't think any of the names being branded around are terrible appointments. I think Graham Alexander is the worst of the bunch suggested given his recent track record and he's been sacked from his last 3 jobs I believe.
Danny Cowley and David Artell have both enjoyed promotion success at this level and are loved at the clubs they've been at. Artell had a really good season with Crewe in L1 and recorded there highest ever finish and then they proceeded to sell all there best players. Was pretty much an impossible task to keep them up and they were then relegated. I don't have to tell anyone about what the Cowleys did up the road but like you say the record speaks for themselves. They did a number on us at BP in that playoff semi final, and I left thinking it was another season in non league as I can't remember a single decent effort we had that day. Obviously it all changed when we went there and of all people Marcus Marshall got me dreaming. They had the man sent off and the rest is history.
Parkinson and Rooney are both young and upcoming coaches, Parkinson looks destined to be a football league manager and has enjoyed nothing but success and the same with Rooney albeit over in Gibraltar but his record is outstanding. People will have doubts about the level the experience at this level for both but look at Kieran Mckenna, Micheal Carrick, John Eustace and John Mousinho of recent times. John Eustace in particular had only managed Kidderminster Harriers before going into a couple of assistant management roles before taking charge at Birmingham, only lost his job because of incompetent owners more bothered about commercial value than on field decisions.
This seems to be the unpopular opinion on here, but I’m not at all opposed to Cowley, personally. Or to put it another way, if we were to go down the route of taking an established name from the merry go round, he’d by my top pick of the realistic candidates.
His record at Lincoln is absolutely outstanding. Just to refresh your memories, this is what he achieved there:
- Season 1: National League title (99 points), FA Cup quarter-final (Lincoln had finished 13th the season before)
- Season 2: League Two play-offs (7th place, 75 points), EFL Trophy winners
- Season 3: League Two champions (85 points)
- Season 4: Leaves after 7 games with Lincoln 5th in League One
Take that in isolation, and it’s a phenomenal record. In pure positional terms, it’d be the equivalent of taking Town from where we are now to 13th in the Championship.
There seems to be two primary arguments against him. The first is that he’s failed since leaving Lincoln, but I don’t think that’s an entirely fair assessment.
He took over Huddersfield with the Terriers second from bottom in League One, with a single point from their opening 6 games. By the time Covid paused the season in March 2020, he’d taken them 3 places clear of the relegation zone to 18th. By the time he was relieved of his duties in July, they were 17th and effectively safe, with a single game to go. The PPG for games under Cowley’s control would have had Huddersfield finish 13th, and you have to factor in that he inherited a struggling team.
His record at Pompey was also actually very good…for the most part. He went to Fratton Park in March ‘21, won 6 out of his first 21 games and signed a new, “long-term” deal.
Roughly a year ago, Cowley had Portsmouth 4th in League One with 3 games in hand on the 3 sides above them. Then, in fairness, he took only 9 points from their next 11 games, and was sacked with Pompey in 12th place.
But really, going back even to his time at Braintree (and even Concord Rangers) where his record was also brilliant, those 11 games that saw him sacked represent the only real period of “failure” in a management career full of meaningful successes.
To the second issue people seem to have; on reporting Cowley’s sacking at Huddersfield the Yorkshire Post describes his football as “often pragmatic rather than pretty”. I understand why this puts people off, the football at BP has been mostly turgid ever since we got back to the EFL the first time realistically, but I would also argue that Huddersfield required a pragmatic approach at the time, and it worked.
For me, there are 5 clear priorities that we need to work through, in this order:
1. Avoid relegation this season at all costs 2. Get the club performing in-line with budget / expectation 3. Get the club performing above budget / expectation 4. Win promotion from League Two 5. Get the club playing attractive football
For some, I imagine that 4 and 5 might be interchangeable, but ultimately if we were to complete the first 4 over the course of the next 2 or 3 years, I imagine that would be a pretty enjoyable experience in the main. Certainly better than anything we’ve experienced for the past quarter of a century (brief play-off campaigns and cup runs aside).
Cowley’s record suggests he’d keep us up in his sleep, and depressing an objective as that represents, the alternative is absolutely unthinkable. We simply must not go down for a third time.
I also don’t think there’s too much wrong with a functional manager at this moment in time. Our team is dysfunctional; it is screaming out for function. Perhaps the harsh reality is that we are another appointment away from champagne football.
There are no guarantees in football, but I think Danny Cowley would be a very solid appointment for a struggling League Two side, and quite possibly less risky than the upcoming coach / manager route. I’d be happy enough, certainly.
I agree, you are bang on with your dysfunctional comment, I watched on in envy the way Lincoln approached tbe game the last time the Cowleys were in charge of them at BP, they oozed positivity, teamwork, togetherness, and that was just pre match, it was was chalk and cheese compared to our tired routines. The cowleys have a very good record in Management and are no fools.
Don't know if this has been posted already but Bradford are now onto the second interim boss as they continue the search for a new manager as Kevin Mcdonald has now gone back to full time playing duties. Says they are now approaching final interviews with canidates so the bookies market indicating the Cowleys was close to taking over was wrong.
Interesting Gillingham have appointed Stephen Clemence as their coach. Outside of being Interim Manager at Shef Wed in 2019 there is nothing else. Hell of a punt by the Gills
My misgivings regarding the Cowleys, and I'll be honest and say this might be out-of-date (and thus unfair):
1) Constant badgering of officials during the match
2) Team encouraged to complain to the referee throughout the match
3) Players encouraged to drop at the slightest touch
4) Sh1te football
If 1, 2 and 3 are what's needed to achieve success...then 'the game' has gone. I see Town as better class than that.
I have little doubt they can get the points to avoid relegation, so I understand the appeal they would have for our owners and a sizeable chunk of the fanbase too. Not my choice though.
I'm old-fashioned enough to want Town to win by playing the better football, rather than streetwise gamesmanship.
It’s mental that people think you can merely long-ball and cheat your way to one, let alone two, championships with an FA Cup 1/4 final & playoff finish thrown in for good measure.
Awful stuff all this diving, glad we’ve never done anything like that *cough*Orsi*cough*
My misgivings regarding the Cowleys, and I'll be honest and say this might be out-of-date (and thus unfair):
1) Constant badgering of officials during the match
2) Team encouraged to complain to the referee throughout the match
3) Players encouraged to drop at the slightest touch
4) Sh1te football
If 1, 2 and 3 are what's needed to achieve success...then 'the game' has gone. I see Town as better class than that.
I have little doubt they can get the points to avoid relegation, so I understand the appeal they would have for our owners and a sizeable chunk of the fanbase too. Not my choice though.
I'm old-fashioned enough to want Town to win by playing the better football, rather than streetwise gamesmanship.
UTM
All good teams have a bit of 1,2 & 3. Pep Guardiolas teams play the best football this side of 2000 and they've all been known for it. SAF United were always known for getting dodgy decisions and badgering refferees. I'm not one for saying we should be cheating to win but it's more about being smart. The Manchester Derby at the weekend showed the difference, Rodri goes down after a bit of contact.. well within his right to do and wins a penalty, may of been soft but it was a penalty. Rasmus Hojlund was through on goal and went round the keeper and a slight bit of contact stayed on his feet and squandered the goalscoring opportunity, if he goes down it's a penalty. Any manager you speak to won't openly admit it but they all use the same term ' game management ' . Max Crocombe was loved here for his cramp but that's the exact same thing as going down and winning a foul or surrounding the refferee and like mentioned before, we had no qualms when Orsi threw himself to the ground to win a penalty against Southampton. 1 2 & 3 have always been a part of needing to win titles, the best teams of all time all had it.
This seems to be the unpopular opinion on here, but I’m not at all opposed to Cowley, personally. Or to put it another way, if we were to go down the route of taking an established name from the merry go round, he’d by my top pick of the realistic candidates.
His record at Lincoln is absolutely outstanding. Just to refresh your memories, this is what he achieved there:
- Season 1: National League title (99 points), FA Cup quarter-final (Lincoln had finished 13th the season before)
- Season 2: League Two play-offs (7th place, 75 points), EFL Trophy winners
- Season 3: League Two champions (85 points)
- Season 4: Leaves after 7 games with Lincoln 5th in League One
Take that in isolation, and it’s a phenomenal record. In pure positional terms, it’d be the equivalent of taking Town from where we are now to 13th in the Championship.
There seems to be two primary arguments against him. The first is that he’s failed since leaving Lincoln, but I don’t think that’s an entirely fair assessment.
He took over Huddersfield with the Terriers second from bottom in League One, with a single point from their opening 6 games. By the time Covid paused the season in March 2020, he’d taken them 3 places clear of the relegation zone to 18th. By the time he was relieved of his duties in July, they were 17th and effectively safe, with a single game to go. The PPG for games under Cowley’s control would have had Huddersfield finish 13th, and you have to factor in that he inherited a struggling team.
His record at Pompey was also actually very good…for the most part. He went to Fratton Park in March ‘21, won 6 out of his first 12 games and signed a new, “long-term” deal.
Roughly a year ago, Cowley had Portsmouth 4th in League One with 3 games in hand on the 3 sides above them. Then, in fairness, he took only 9 points from their next 11 games, and was sacked with Pompey in 12th place.
But really, going back even to his time at Braintree (and even Concord Rangers) where his record was also brilliant, those 11 games that saw him sacked represent the only real period of “failure” in a management career full of meaningful successes.
To the second issue people seem to have; on reporting Cowley’s sacking at Huddersfield the Yorkshire Post describes his football as “often pragmatic rather than pretty”. I understand why this puts people off, the football at BP has been mostly turgid ever since we got back to the EFL the first time realistically, but I would also argue that Huddersfield required a pragmatic approach at the time, and it worked.
For me, there are 5 clear priorities that we need to work through, in this order:
1. Avoid relegation this season at all costs 2. Get the club performing in-line with budget / expectation 3. Get the club performing above budget / expectation 4. Win promotion from League Two 5. Get the club playing attractive football
For some, I imagine that 4 and 5 might be interchangeable, but ultimately if we were to complete the first 4 over the course of the next 2 or 3 years, I imagine that would be a pretty enjoyable experience in the main. Certainly better than anything we’ve experienced for the past quarter of a century (brief play-off campaigns and cup runs aside).
Cowley’s record suggests he’d keep us up in his sleep, and depressing an objective as that represents, the alternative is absolutely unthinkable. We simply must not go down for a third time.
I also don’t think there’s too much wrong with a functional manager at this moment in time. Our team is dysfunctional; it is screaming out for function. Perhaps the harsh reality is that we are another appointment away from champagne football.
There are no guarantees in football, but I think Danny Cowley would be a very solid appointment for a struggling League Two side, and quite possibly less risky than the upcoming coach / manager route. I’d be happy enough, certainly.
Great post.
The Icenian Prediction League Winner 2012 (Part 2)
Adding to the Cowley debate, I know someone that was involved in the sale of their Lincolnshire home when they moved to Portsmouth and their wives were furious about it. They love that part of the world so they would be open to them returning locally.
The Cowley's Lincoln record was phenomenal and they got sacked for meeting their objective of surviving relegation at Huddersfield, it was incredibly harsh.
To add another angle to the Cowley viewpoint from Poojah. Their time at Portsmouth and Huddersfield doesn't seem that bad but I guess it all depends on expectations when they took over.
I think, but very happy to be corrected, that Portsmouth had a very top end budget in League One under them, certainly one that led to expectations of higher than midtable finishes. John Mousinho has certainly gone onto do something more like what is expected at the club since taking over.
It doesn't surprise me why there's a bit of a clamor for them amongst some Town fans, I can definitely see the appeal. As said their record in and around this level is exceptional, but I would argue that they've not done it in the last four years.
Four years is a long time in football, for comparative context Alan Buckley had Town knocking on the door of the Championship top 6 at Xmas 1998. 3 and a half years later he got the sack at Lincoln with a win record of just 23%. Lincoln finished that season third bottom of the whole Football League, only the fact that it was still one-up-one-down into the Conference saved them a nasty looking scrap to stay up in the final weeks.
I'm not saying the Cowley's have and are suffering a dramatic decline like Buckley's stock did, but I do think their edge and advantages have perhaps faded a little as everyone else has caught up.
The more I think about it though, the more I can see 1878 going for them. Personally I don't want them. I don't believe our side or squad is that bad. I think there's more than enough to get out of a relegation battle with a bit of organisation and belief in the camp. But I want to be entertained as a Town fan, something I don't think the Cowley's would bring. That said, I loved Slade's first spell here and the second season especially wasn't exactly peak-Barca.
My misgivings regarding the Cowleys, and I'll be honest and say this might be out-of-date (and thus unfair):
1) Constant badgering of officials during the match
2) Team encouraged to complain to the referee throughout the match
3) Players encouraged to drop at the slightest touch
4) Sh1te football
If 1, 2 and 3 are what's needed to achieve success...then 'the game' has gone. I see Town as better class than that.
I have little doubt they can get the points to avoid relegation, so I understand the appeal they would have for our owners and a sizeable chunk of the fanbase too. Not my choice though.
I'm old-fashioned enough to want Town to win by playing the better football, rather than streetwise gamesmanship.
UTM
I also wasn't massively keen on their antics whilst at Lincoln. However, I think there's a halfway house between this Town team and the Cowley's at their most extreme which would make us more streetwise and savvy without crossing the line. As a team, Town have been too nice for years. When was the last time we had an actual bast@rd in the side? How many times have we watched the opposition affect the game and the referee's decisions whilst we sit back and allow ourselves to be gallant losers? I'd happily take a bit more of an up and at them approach if it meant we lost fewer games.
This seems to be the unpopular opinion on here, but I’m not at all opposed to Cowley, personally. Or to put it another way, if we were to go down the route of taking an established name from the merry go round, he’d by my top pick of the realistic candidates.
His record at Lincoln is absolutely outstanding. Just to refresh your memories, this is what he achieved there:
- Season 1: National League title (99 points), FA Cup quarter-final (Lincoln had finished 13th the season before)
- Season 2: League Two play-offs (7th place, 75 points), EFL Trophy winners
- Season 3: League Two champions (85 points)
- Season 4: Leaves after 7 games with Lincoln 5th in League One
Take that in isolation, and it’s a phenomenal record. In pure positional terms, it’d be the equivalent of taking Town from where we are now to 13th in the Championship.
There seems to be two primary arguments against him. The first is that he’s failed since leaving Lincoln, but I don’t think that’s an entirely fair assessment.
He took over Huddersfield with the Terriers second from bottom in the Championship, with a single point from their opening 6 games. By the time Covid paused the season in March 2020, he’d taken them 3 places clear of the relegation zone to 18th. By the time he was relieved of his duties in July, they were 17th and effectively safe, with a single game to go. The PPG for games under Cowley’s control would have had Huddersfield finish 13th, and you have to factor in that he inherited a struggling team.
His record at Pompey was also actually very good…for the most part. He went to Fratton Park in March ‘21, won 6 out of his first 12 games and signed a new, “long-term” deal.
Roughly a year ago, Cowley had Portsmouth 4th in League One with 3 games in hand on the 3 sides above them. Then, in fairness, he took only 9 points from their next 11 games, and was sacked with Pompey in 12th place.
But really, going back even to his time at Braintree (and even Concord Rangers) where his record was also brilliant, those 11 games that saw him sacked represent the only real period of “failure” in a management career full of meaningful successes.
To the second issue people seem to have; on reporting Cowley’s sacking at Huddersfield the Yorkshire Post describes his football as “often pragmatic rather than pretty”. I understand why this puts people off, the football at BP has been mostly turgid ever since we got back to the EFL the first time realistically, but I would also argue that Huddersfield required a pragmatic approach at the time, and it worked.
For me, there are 5 clear priorities that we need to work through, in this order:
1. Avoid relegation this season at all costs 2. Get the club performing in-line with budget / expectation 3. Get the club performing above budget / expectation 4. Win promotion from League Two 5. Get the club playing attractive football
For some, I imagine that 4 and 5 might be interchangeable, but ultimately if we were to complete the first 4 over the course of the next 2 or 3 years, I imagine that would be a pretty enjoyable experience in the main. Certainly better than anything we’ve experienced for the past quarter of a century (brief play-off campaigns and cup runs aside).
Cowley’s record suggests he’d keep us up in his sleep, and depressing an objective as that represents, the alternative is absolutely unthinkable. We simply must not go down for a third time.
I also don’t think there’s too much wrong with a functional manager at this moment in time. Our team is dysfunctional; it is screaming out for function. Perhaps the harsh reality is that we are another appointment away from champagne football.
There are no guarantees in football, but I think Danny Cowley would be a very solid appointment for a struggling League Two side, and quite possibly less risky than the upcoming coach / manager route. I’d be happy enough, certainly.
Very good post Poojah and I'd largely agree FWIW. The other point to add In is that the Cowleys ( important to remember they come as a team, which i also see as a plus) is that they have a point to prove. Got jobs at 2 much bigger clubs n ' failed'.I'm sure they will have ambitions to move further up the footballing ladder n we might be a good opportunity to rebuild ( of course much the same could be argued for them taking gillingham or bradford jobs)
The more I think about it though, the more I can see 1878 going for them. Personally I don't want them. I don't believe our side or squad is that bad. I think there's more than enough to get out of a relegation battle with a bit of organisation and belief in the camp. But I want to be entertained as a Town fan, something I don't think the Cowley's would bring. That said, I loved Slade's first spell here and the second season especially wasn't exactly peak-Barca.
Virtually anything would be better than what we've been served up so far this season. Like everyone else I would much rather we played attractive passing football. However, and I may be in the minority here, but I enjoyed large parts of the 2005/06 season under Slade. We had pace, we had power, we were physical and we were competitive. It wasn't always pretty but we had goal threat and created chances which is ultimately what gets people excited at football games. Anyone that says they didn't enjoy seeing Michael Reddy in full flight or Gary Jones' clever flick ons and hold up play is a liar. I understand that there were games where it didn't work and it was turgid and that without Reddy being fully fit it generally didn't work well but there were some terrifically entertaining games that season, far better than anything seen so far this season. If the Cowleys had us competing and actually creating chances and winning games then it's a huge improvement on where we are now which should be the immediate objective given our situation.
To add another angle to the Cowley viewpoint from Poojah. Their time at Portsmouth and Huddersfield doesn't seem that bad but I guess it all depends on expectations when they took over.
I think, but very happy to be corrected, that Portsmouth had a very top end budget in League One under them, certainly one that led to expectations of higher than midtable finishes. John Mousinho has certainly gone onto do something more like what is expected at the club since taking over.
It doesn't surprise me why there's a bit of a clamor for them amongst some Town fans, I can definitely see the appeal. As said their record in and around this level is exceptional, but I would argue that they've not done it in the last four years.
Four years is a long time in football, for comparative context Alan Buckley had Town knocking on the door of the Championship top 6 at Xmas 1998. 3 and a half years later he got the sack at Lincoln with a win record of just 23%. Lincoln finished that season third bottom of the whole Football League, only the fact that it was still one-up-one-down into the Conference saved them a nasty looking scrap to stay up in the final weeks.
I'm not saying the Cowley's have and are suffering a dramatic decline like Buckley's stock did, but I do think their edge and advantages have perhaps faded a little as everyone else has caught up.
The more I think about it though, the more I can see 1878 going for them. Personally I don't want them. I don't believe our side or squad is that bad. I think there's more than enough to get out of a relegation battle with a bit of organisation and belief in the camp. But I want to be entertained as a Town fan, something I don't think the Cowley's would bring. That said, I loved Slade's first spell here and the second season especially wasn't exactly peak-Barca.
I don't imagine the Portsmouth budget is bad but there's some big spending clubs in there and they've been down there a while now. The one thing that stands out for me is the admiration that Portsmouth and Huddersfield fans have for the Cowleys. I don't think they failed at Huddersfield, the ownership group there are ' interesting ' to say the least and a couple seasons in the prem seems to of misled the thinking especially given the budget they seem to possess based on recruitment and them keeping them up was very much a success in the eyes of the fans. They went to Portsmouth and replaced a man in Kenny Jackett that is very much anti football. They managed 92 games and won 42, leaving them at a 43% win percentage. The interesting thing here is that they lost 27 and drew 27.. they couldn't finish games off. I have a friend who's a Porstmouth fan here and the fanbase love the Cowleys they just couldn't finish games off and will always wish them well and Mousinho is putting the bricks in whilst Cowley merely planted the foundations for a good squad.
I just hated their style at Lincoln, it left me feeling cold as hell. Maybe different when it's our team. I dunno....
For Mariner91's point about the pace and power of the Slade team, that's not how I remember Lincoln under the Cowley's though. Just power and shithousery. Perhaps they were just more powerful and more shithousery than us in the games we played against them.
Last real shithouse we had was Mitch Rose. Everyone else since has seemed gentle, with the notable exception of Luke Waterfall's "intercourse OFF, intercourse OFF, FUCCCCKKK OFFFFFF" moment to Paul Mullin in May 2022.
So many vacant jobs. Do we actually think Cowley would want this one
Why not?.. 1) Owners that give you the tools and time. 2) A fan base to die for 3) location is in our favour for once, his wife still works at a school in Lincoln im led to believe. 4) A project worth getting your teeth into, left alone to run the football side of the club. 5) Potentially the best vacancy to do raise your own stock after a couple of "failures".
So why is it that just about every club in the EFL and Premiership are using stats on a daily basis?
They all use it, bar none. Its derigour to use it. Mind you, it's not doing many clubs any good is it, judging by the number of sackings and all the teams with the best players/managers are at or near the top, and the rest nowhere. We use it and sit 4th bottom with 3 wins in 20. A new manager doing the basics will have much more effect.
I just hated their style at Lincoln, it left me feeling cold as hell. Maybe different when it's our team. I dunno....
For Mariner91's point about the pace and power of the Slade team, that's not how I remember Lincoln under the Cowley's though. Just power and shithousery. Perhaps they were just more powerful and more shithousery than us in the games we played against them.
Last real shithouse we had was Mitch Rose. Everyone else since has seemed gentle, with the notable exception of Luke Waterfall's "intercourse OFF, intercourse OFF, FUCCCCKKK OFFFFFF" moment to Paul Mullin in May 2022.
I think we all remember the pantomime villain that was fat Matt Rhead. The sad fact of the matter is that a c. 2015 - 2017 version of him improves our current squad.
They all use it, bar none. Its derigour to use it. Mind you, it's not doing many clubs any good is it, judging by the number of sackings and all the teams with the best players/managers are at or near the top, and the rest nowhere. We use it and sit 4th bottom with 3 wins in 20. A new manager doing the basics will have much more effect.
That logic is like saying everyone uses water to hydrate themselves but I'm not as fast as peak Usain Bolt....so I'll drink spanners instead.
So many vacant jobs. Do we actually think Cowley would want this one
Gillingham have appointed a manager now. Stephen Clemence with Robbie Stockdale as his assistant. There's now us, Colchester, Bradford and Lincoln managerless in the bottom 2 divisions. Lincoln are the only more attractive proposition than us right now, good owners and a good squad in the league above. Bradford is a poisoned chalice, very much the Man United of L2. Sure they get a few fans through the gate but they're self funded and the relationship between the fans and the owners is very toxic. Colchester are not a more attractive proposition than Grimsby in any month of sundays. I'd say we're a very attractive job for any manager under the current stewardship.
I think we all remember the pantomime villain that was fat Matt Rhead. The sad fact of the matter is that a c. 2015 - 2017 version of him improves our current squad.
Aye, I don't even think that's a slight on the current side either. He was incredibly effective at what he was doing in that window of time. Oddly his career either side of those two years is incredibly unspectacular. Just the right mixture of him with his team-mates/tactics, only time he was properly utilised or just a really purple patch...maybe even a case of the Cowley's getting him performing above his natural ability.
His failure to notice how ridiculous his comb-over looked will always be the biggest blight on his career though.
So many vacant jobs. Do we actually think Cowley would want this one
jobs available championship Millwall & Bristol City - presumably most unlikely? Div 1 - lincoln, Bristol Rovers - would they really go back to the Imps? Rovers chairman says he's looking for a younger manager with experience of getting promotion from div 1 to championship, so that would appear unlikely Div 2 - Bradford, Colchester and us. Colchester would be okay geographically, given they lived in Braintree for many years, but surely a step down from either us or Bradford. You'd imagine they'd leap at the chance of Bradford, but it's weird how long Bradford have taken over this. Wonder if they mentioned the fact that theyre interested in our job in order to try and force Bradford's hands? if they don't get the Bradford job then I can imagine we would be a good proposition. Works geographically if it's true that the families liked living in the lincoln area. A club with good, supportive owners and very much on the up off the park. A club with potential where they could rebuild their reputation
Think its a slight stretch to try and paint town as a more attractive proposition than Bradford City. They've made some bad decisions in the last couple of years but the potential is huge for anyone that can get them performing.
Think its a slight stretch to try and paint town as a more attractive proposition than Bradford City. They've made some bad decisions in the last couple of years but the potential is huge for anyone that can get them performing.
Maybe so but they've been yo-yoing between L1 & L2 for the past 17 years. The attraction is obvious, a nice big stadium that gets filled because of the cheap season tickets which is a great iniative. A poisoned chalice however it is, all it takes is one look at social media in how the relationship between the ownership, people running the club and the fans is hanging on by a very thin thread. The stadium is probably in as good a condition as BP. I'm not saying we are a better proposition as a club but there's aspects i'd look at as a manager and definitely favour choosing us over them.
jobs available championship Millwall & Bristol City - presumably most unlikely? Div 1 - lincoln, Bristol Rovers - would they really go back to the Imps? Rovers chairman says he's looking for a younger manager with experience of getting promotion from div 1 to championship, so that would appear unlikely Div 2 - Bradford, Colchester and us. Colchester would be okay geographically, given they lived in Braintree for many years, but surely a step down from either us or Bradford. You'd imagine they'd leap at the chance of Bradford, but it's weird how long Bradford have taken over this. Wonder if they mentioned the fact that theyre interested in our job in order to try and force Bradford's hands? if they don't get the Bradford job then I can imagine we would be a good proposition. Works geographically if it's true that the families liked living in the lincoln area. A club with good, supportive owners and very much on the up off the park. A club with potential where they could rebuild their reputation
It would make complete sense to wait for the dust to settle until after the Lincoln and Bradford appointments are made before holding interviews..
Grimsby do have good away support but there's other clubs which are really decent as well and arguably better. I remember seeing Bristol Rovers for one and their rendition of heigh ho silver lining by Jeff Beck especially before a league game and at stages during created a decent atmosphere down there and gets the fans going. Liverpool is very special in terms of fan base where "You'll never walk alone" by Gerry and the Pacemakers especially on champions league nights can be spine tingling especially as it can be sung at points throughout the game depending on how the team do .
I'd take the Cowley's, and personally i don't care about playing 'attractive football' if we were successful. Especially while we're in league two.
My supporting of Town is mainly a live experience. When i'm watching us live, i want that thrill of scoring a goal, and that relief of winning a game - you can't beat that feeling. I really don't care how we get there. At Donny on Saturday i was praying for a goal...that away end would've erupted.
If i'm not at the match, i'm listening on the radio. Again...i just want that buzz of a goal/win.
A lot of the slights on the Cowley's and Lincoln at the time from Town fans, came across as jealousy tbh....And i really don't think Lincoln fans gave a crap what anyone thought. They were having their most successful period ever, the time of their lives whilst we were abject, and watching absolute crap whilst sneering "well at least we don't play long ball", "at least we don't complain to the ref all the time".
We all have our opnions, of course, but if they did come (doubt they will), and gave us a winning team complete with all their perceived misgivings, i'll bet Town fans wouldn't care at all!
Grimsby do have good away support but Ive seen better vocal support at some clubs especially home games. I remember seeing Bristol Rovers for one and their rendition of heigh ho silver lining by Jeff Beck on and off throughout a league game created a decent atmosphere down there. Liverpool is another one where "You'll never walk alone" by Gerry and the Pacemakers especially on champions league nights can be spine tingling .
Hang on, we don`t make as much noise as 40 000 odd in Anfield on a Champions League night? No sh*t Sherlock.
Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
Hang on, we don`t make as much noise as 40 000 odd in Anfield on a Champions League night? No sh*t Sherlock.
. Yes your right . I just think some clubs down to their history /location can be more special than others though .Liverpool for one created that identity as your all to likely aware due to poverty down in the area and the football club being a medium of happiness for the people in times gone by. Still applies to some extent in todays and age. Newcastle and Sunderland are another one due to a limited number of big clubs in the area I imagine. Some people don't have much in their lives and football is the focus for such people which helps keep them going. Look abroad as well where probably the biggest club on the world stage Real Madrid and the illustrious history they have in the champions league/old European cup and fans singing hala Madrid can help players raise their game. Carlo Ancelotti said the same .
Don't know if this has been posted already but Bradford are now onto the second interim boss as they continue the search for a new manager as Kevin Mcdonald has now gone back to full time playing duties. Says they are now approaching final interviews with canidates so the bookies market indicating the Cowleys was close to taking over was wrong.
I’m still fairly sure he will be named Bradford boss within the week. I hope we get a chance to interview him and can persuade him to come here never the less. Say what you want about his football I want a team that wins first and foremost.
The Cowley’s stock is reasonably high with lower league teams due to what they achieved at Lincoln and somewhat Huddersfield. They put Lincoln back on the footballing map due to their exploits in the fa cup, winning the pizza cup and am sure they had them in the playoffs in their first season back.
Maybe am adding 2 and 2 together and getting 18 thinking they could come here as it seams there are 2 positions available and they come as a package. But, then again every manager will have a good idea of the back room team they want.
I don’t think it’s out of the realms of possibility that JS and AP would have BP lined up as the Cowley’s next line of employment.
The Cowley’s stock is reasonably high with lower league teams due to what they achieved at Lincoln and somewhat Huddersfield. They put Lincoln back on the footballing map due to their exploits in the fa cup, winning the pizza cup and am sure they had them in the playoffs in their first season back.
Maybe am adding 2 and 2 together and getting 18 thinking they could come here as it seams there are 2 positions available and they come as a package. But, then again every manager will have a good idea of the back room team they want.
I don’t think it’s out of the realms of possibility that JS and AP would have BP lined up as the Cowley’s next line of employment.
I can't see the Cowley boys rocking up at Bradford after managing at Huddersfield that's a pretty big rivalry far bigger than Gy and Lincoln.
I’m still fairly sure he will be named Bradford boss within the week. I hope we get a chance to interview him and can persuade him to come here never the less. Say what you want about his football I want a team that wins first and foremost.
Is it a possibility that he's turned them down? Reading online and twitter the fans seemed sure that they were set to appoint a new manager within 48 hours and that co-incided with Cowley shooting to favourite in the betting market. Now a statement indicating they're holding final interviews with multiple canidates.. i'm not so sure. A good piece below on the current state of Bradford.
Is it a possibility that he's turned them down? Reading online and twitter the fans seemed sure that they were set to appoint a new manager within 48 hours and that co-incided with Cowley shooting to favourite in the betting market. Now a statement indicating they're holding final interviews with multiple canidates.. i'm not so sure. A good piece below on the current state of Bradford.
It could be but since that statement his odds have changed once again to odds on. I know odds far from tell the whole story but they give a good indication.
. Yes your right . I just think some clubs down to their history /location can be more special than others though .Liverpool for one created that identity as your all to likely aware due to poverty down in the area and the football club being a medium of happiness for the people in times gone by. Still applies to some extent in todays and age. Newcastle and Sunderland are another one due to a limited number of big clubs in the area I imagine. Some people don't have much in their lives and football is the focus for such people which helps keep them going. Look abroad as well where probably the biggest club on the world stage Real Madrid and the illustrious history they have in the champions league/old European cup and fans singing hala Madrid can help players raise their game. Carlo Ancelotti said the same .
I think you're looking at Liverpool through rose and sepia tinted glasses, your description of them was accurate up to the mid 80s. They are now a slick, mutinational organisation focused on their global reach and commercial earnings, just like pretty much all of the premier league clubs. TV earnings, global merchandising and commercial partnerships are far more important to them than matchday ticket earnings. They do still have low priced tickets (compared to the rest of the Prem Lge) but that is more to do with their supporters club being a pretty effective pressure group rather than the club being grounded in the working class roots of Liverpool.
The days of thousands of scousers swaying on the Kop singing 'she loves you yeah yeah yeah' are long gone.
By the way, Liverpool are the cub with the largest number of season ticket holders from outside the immediate area of the club, despite the constant joke about Man U fans all coming from London.
Liverpool FC's marketing team is very good at keeping the myths alive. But it's cobblers.
Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
It could be but since that statement his odds have changed once again to odds on. I know odds far from tell the whole story but they give a good indication.
His odds were 4/5 for a while, Dean Holden interestingly has come in from around 16's to 2's.
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My Lincoln work mates don't want the Cowley's, he said they was good but they need to take the next step. and the football was not great (direct/long with a bit unprofessionalism thown in).
Plenty of interviews & videos with the Cowleys across YouTube or Spotify for those interested. No idea what to make of it tactically, well above my station, but their philosophy, values and approach seems like a perfect match for Stockwood.
Maybe most other managers can rattle off a similar load of chat, but listening to Danny Cowley was like an e-book of Stockwood’s guardian articles.
Adding to the Cowley debate, I know someone that was involved in the sale of their Lincolnshire home when they moved to Portsmouth and their wives were furious about it. They love that part of the world so they would be open to them returning locally.
The Cowley's Lincoln record was phenomenal and they got sacked for meeting their objective of surviving relegation at Huddersfield, it was incredibly harsh.
I believe that they were well settled in Lincoln but I know for a fact that they lived in rented accommodation and I don’t believe that the respective wives had much discussion with the estate agents responsible for letting their properties, which were together in what is called the Collesium in uphill Lincoln.
From what I know I would agree that they were very happy in Lincoln and I also think that a project like Grimsby may well appeal to them, remember they come as a pair, but there is still some rumours they may return to Lincoln. However, there is also a rumour that they are waiting for the Irish League to finish as they are interested in appointing the Manager of Shamrock Rovers, might be called Bradley, who they offered the job before Mark Kennedy took over.
Bit torn on them personally but it wouldn’t be the worst appointment we’ve made since the millennium.
I believe that they were well settled in Lincoln but I know for a fact that they lived in rented accommodation and I don’t believe that the respective wives had much discussion with the estate agents responsible for letting their properties, which were together in what is called the Collesium in uphill Lincoln.
Lovely views of the Ermine from the bathroom window.
Nathan Jones seems to be top of the pick for the Millwall job according to all the media reports. John Eustace among the favorites for the Bristol City job.
I see QPR have appointed Marti Cifuentes, managed in the Danish, Norweigian lower leagues with 40+% win rate, went to Hammarby in top Swedish league with 52% win rate, I wonder if we would go down that route again.
I think you're looking at Liverpool through rose and sepia tinted glasses, your description of them was accurate up to the mid 80s. They are now a slick, mutinational organisation focused on their global reach and commercial earnings, just like pretty much all of the premier league clubs. TV earnings, global merchandising and commercial partnerships are far more important to them than matchday ticket earnings. They do still have low priced tickets (compared to the rest of the Prem Lge) but that is more to do with their supporters club being a pretty effective pressure group rather than the club being grounded in the working class roots of Liverpool.
The days of thousands of scousers swaying on the Kop singing 'she loves you yeah yeah yeah' are long gone.
By the way, Liverpool are the cub with the largest number of season ticket holders from outside the immediate area of the club, despite the constant joke about Man U fans all coming from London.
Liverpool FC's marketing team is very good at keeping the myths alive. But it's cobblers.
Where do you get that information from , just interested why a club would publish that
Where do you get that information from , just interested why a club would publish that
I can`t remember, it was done as part of one of those `price of football` surveys or similar. They looked at season ticket holders in the 10 postcodes closest to the ground (I think it was 10, might have been more) and Liverpool had proportionately fewest. It wasn`t done by the clubs, it was an independent body, maybe consultants.
Sorry to be so vague.
Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
Was just reading an article suggesting Artell would be a good appointment and it mentioned he could link back up with Callum Ainley. Honestly forget he even existed, what's the deal with him, injured?
Was just reading an article suggesting Artell would be a good appointment and it mentioned he could link back up with Callum Ainley. Honestly forget he even existed, what's the deal with him, injured?
yes he is .I just don't get the 'excitement' over David Artell - seems a carbon copy of hurst; dour Yorkie lower league defender, some success followed by long periods of mediocrity
yes he is .I just don't get the 'excitement' over David Artell - seems a carbon copy of hurst; dour Yorkie lower league defender, some success followed by long periods of mediocrity
Not sure about Artell’s personality and whether he would fit with the culture of the club over the long term as seem to think he let his gob get away from him in the past.
But Crewe played some really good football under him so that at least is something. It all went mammaries up there but then that happens with most managers and most jobs eventually.
I found Slade's team a chore to watch even when we were good, comes from growing up with Buckley's sides I guess. I think Cowley's teams would be pretty agricultural at our level but it's fair to say they galvanised the whole town of Lincoln and they found all the winning pretty exciting. I also agree that he hasn't failed anywhere (succeeded in every job including Huddersfield, apart from Portsmouth were he just didn't succeed rather than outright failed).
I doubt he has the edge the way he did when back at Lincoln though and even then they had to spend big style to win that league 2 promotion.
Overall whilst I'm sure he would see us out of relegation trouble I'd have a lot less faith in him having us challenging for promotion and being entertaining
yes he is .I just don't get the 'excitement' over David Artell - seems a carbon copy of hurst; dour Yorkie lower league defender, some success followed by long periods of mediocrity
I don't get this comment at all. He's had one job and that was at Crewe. He joined them when they were staring relegation in the face and kept them up. Finished 15th the next year, whilst having a squad made up of youngsters. I think I remember a mad stat like they had 15 players that had come through the youth system. He then got them promoted which in itself is a massive achievement. They finished 12th in the first season in L1 and then excrement hit the fan off the field. He had players sold from underneath himand players refusing to play, the scandals in the media regarding former coaches and the club just abandoned all footballing matters and he was eventually sacked. He's had 5 seasons of managerial experience and in 3 of them he had success and then 1 of them he was basically in the ring with Mike Tyson with both hands tied behind his back. He's not my number 1 target by any means but long periods of mediocrity just isn't true and he certainly isn't dour. Artell has been fined and given touchline bans by the Football Association for his "expressive and passionate touchline behaviour" is one particular headline that made me chuckle.
yes he is .I just don't get the 'excitement' over David Artell - seems a carbon copy of hurst; dour Yorkie lower league defender, some success followed by long periods of mediocrity
Rooney/Parkinson/Alexander and newly in the frame Widdrington.
The odds mean intercourse all. They meant intercourse all when Adkins was 1/12 on before Holloway(? ) came in and they’ll mean intercourse all next time. It’s staggering how many people put a bet on and don’t know how the system works.
Not Ten Hag if he becomes available in the morning. (United at home to Newcastle tonight and 3-0 down). He has a very poor record and does not get the best from his players.
If he made a sudden appearence in the odds, then it could have been purely down to some joker with money to burn, placing a big bet for 'Michael Pickett' to become our next Manager. If hes got a few mates who he has cajoled into placing bets then 'he' would have been added to the list. With the name now disappearing, the betting company may have realised it was a joke and removed the name
yes he is .I just don't get the 'excitement' over David Artell - seems a carbon copy of hurst; dour Yorkie lower league defender, some success followed by long periods of mediocrity
Where have you got that from? Crewe fans describe him as playing attacking football and by all accounts he’s a bit of a live wire, which literally sounds the complete opposite of Hurst.
FWIW I don’t think we’ll go for him, but you couldn’t be further from the truth by the sounds of it.
Where have you got that from? Crewe fans describe him as playing attacking football and by all accounts he’s a bit of a live wire, which literally sounds the complete opposite of Hurst.
FWIW I don’t think we’ll go for him, but you couldn’t be further from the truth by the sounds of it.
I've been wrong all along, so you are probably right! I was mainly looking at his record which shows some good periods of form, but its interspersed, like hurst , with long runs of mediocre results. I dont know about his style of football, but hes been out of football for 18 months + now, which is a small concern As to who I want , I really dont know.i was quite excited/ intrigued by the sporting director route. All I do know is that I trust 1878/jennings/21stgroup's process far more than I would do if fenty was still here
Ps can anyone remember the name of the football consultant they used in the takeover? Had been involved with Yeovil n lived down here in Aston Clinton? Wouldn't be surprised if they had been in contact with him again
What's the perceived downside with Leam Richardson? I didn't know too much about him to be honest but when I read up on his record it seemed pretty good. Just wondering as nobody seems to have mentioned him much.
What's the perceived downside with Leam Richardson? I didn't know too much about him to be honest but when I read up on his record it seemed pretty good. Just wondering as nobody seems to have mentioned him much.
I’m similarly impressed with Richardson. If we end up with him or Cowley, I’d be pretty hopeful about our future.
Daily Mirror reporting Nathan Rooney is in the frame for the job.
On the outside his stats look fantastic, but putting a 34 year old through what could be a relegation scrap, I'm not sure he'll have the thick skin needed tbh.
Dont confuse this lad with Michael Jolley though, his win ratio blows MJ out the water, although it is in a league with a quality around the Isthmian League looking at it.
If he made a sudden appearence in the odds, then it could have been purely down to some joker with money to burn, placing a big bet for 'Michael Pickett' to become our next Manager. If hes got a few mates who he has cajoled into placing bets then 'he' would have been added to the list. With the name now disappearing, the betting company may have realised it was a joke and removed the name
What's the perceived downside with Leam Richardson? I didn't know too much about him to be honest but when I read up on his record it seemed pretty good. Just wondering as nobody seems to have mentioned him much.
I agree with you.
I'm a touch mystified with the enthusiasm for David Artell, only managed Crewe - where his WDL record is 100-51-123.
Not exactly the stuff to set my heart racing (though that's a good thing at my age! ).
Ps can anyone remember the name of the football consultant they used in the takeover? Had been involved with Yeovil n lived down here in Aston Clinton? Wouldn't be surprised if they had been in contact with him again
Mark Palmer at Insight 63. Now a director at Weymouth.
What's the perceived downside with Leam Richardson? I didn't know too much about him to be honest but when I read up on his record it seemed pretty good. Just wondering as nobody seems to have mentioned him much.
IMO, he's just a tad unrealistic at the moment.
Turned Wigan from a relegation team to promotion in 1 season in league 1 to the Championship. Since he's left, they've fallen back to 19th in League 1 in around the same amount of time.
Daily Mirror reporting Nathan Rooney is in the frame for the job.
On the outside his stats look fantastic, but putting a 34 year old through what could be a relegation scrap, I'm not sure he'll have the thick skin needed tbh.
Dont confuse this lad with Michael Jolley though, his win ratio blows MJ out the water, although it is in a league with a quality around the Isthmian League looking at it.
I’m less bothered about his age, but this one would be too left-field for me. Gibraltar is absolutely tiny, and has a population of roughly 20% that of the North East Lincs area, for context. All 11 teams in its top flight play at the same stadium, on artificial turf no less. I can’t even find attendance information, but a quick glance at highlights on YouTube suggest they’re very low.
The step-up in level would be massive, I’m not sure we’re in a position to take this magnitude of a punt.
Agree about Nathan Rooney - quoting win percentage data and assuming he’s a great manager sounds like a dangerous strategy. He may be very good but we’re in danger of relegation and he’d be a gamble of massive proportions
Turned Wigan from a relegation team to promotion in 1 season in league 1 to the Championship. Since he's left, they've fallen back to 19th in League 1 in around the same amount of time.
If we could get him, I’d have him in a heartbeat. Unfortunately I agree with you about it being unrealistic. Obviously Wigan have had significant off the field troubles that contributed to their current malaise but he did brilliantly with them and was then sacked after signing a long term contract.
“I know writers who use subtext and they’re all cowards.” –Garth Marenghi
I’m less bothered about his age, but this one would be too left-field for me. Gibraltar is absolutely tiny, and has a population of roughly 20% that of the North East Lincs area, for context. All 11 teams in its top flight play at the same stadium, on artificial turf no less. I can’t even find attendance information, but a quick glance at highlights on YouTube suggest they’re very low.
The step-up in level would be massive, I’m not sure we’re in a position to take this magnitude of a punt.
During Louis Robles' time with us I recall some discussion on here about exactly how good the Spanish lower leagues were. My understanding is the Gib league is a mix of local (i.e. Gibraltarian) players and others recruited from the regional Segunda / Tercera divisions (or lower!). I think League 2 would be a huge step up, and a big gamble to appoint Rooney in the hope he's the new Will Still.
During Louis Robles' time with us I recall some discussion on here about exactly how good the Spanish lower leagues were. My understanding is the Gib league is a mix of local (i.e. Gibraltarian) players and others recruited from the regional Segunda / Tercera divisions (or lower!). I think League 2 would be a huge step up, and a big gamble to appoint Rooney in the hope he's the new Will Still.
Looking at their list of players on Wikipedia, they have an English striker who has scored 9 goals in 45 appearances. Prior to moving to Gibraltar, his last action in England was at North West Counties League side West Didsbury & Chorlton, where he scored 1 in 13.
That gives you some flavour of the level. We can't do it.
Nathan Rooney gives me massive Michael jolley vibes .
Notwithstanding the fact I still feel Jolley was 'alright', he'd been managing in the Swedish Premier League which has average attendances almost double those of League Two. Granted, he'd been managing a club at the smaller end of that scale, but the level was at the very least comparable to ours. Gibraltar ain't.
Jolley also had experience managing the under-23s side of a Premier League club. Rooney doesn't seem to have any such exposure to football at a decent standard, so you have to ask "why?".
With Nathan Rooney, you've got to start somewhere.
It would be more of a risk than Cowleys etc, but could pay off to be the start of something with him.
John Mousinho had no experience, Portsmouth are now 1st in League one. John Eustace, 1st managers job, had a Birmingham team tipped to be near the bottom, flying then for some reason was sacked to be replaced by the big name Rooney.
I'm not saying it will work and he will be able to do to us, what the above have done, but don't write him off straight away.
Anthony Limbrick would take less time to settle into the job than Nathan Rooney...and represent about the same amount of risk.
AL was very well regarded when he was here - but I don't know what his management credentials are like. Stats anyone?
Had a good feeling about Leam Richardson, but he's probably looking higher than us (as some have already posted).
TBH none of the "realistic" names mentioned stand out for me. Which is OK, because being mentioned on the Fishy normally kills your chances stone dead.
So it's likely-ish to be someone no-one's considered/heard of. We have a guy assisting the board with international connections - so the footballing world's our oyster, so to speak.
If true this would be an appointment that would make me extremely nervous.
I'm suprised no one has mentioned the gobshat at Dorking , he might be a bit outspoken but has worked miracles ; taken them right through with relative peanuts .
If true this would be an appointment that would make me extremely nervous.
I'm suprised no one has mentioned the gobshat at Dorking , he might be a bit outspoken but has worked miracles ; taken them right through with relative peanuts .
He also owns Dorking, which makes it rather unlikely.
If true this would be an appointment that would make me extremely nervous.
I'm suprised no one has mentioned the gobshat at Dorking , he might be a bit outspoken but has worked miracles ; taken them right through with relative peanuts .
Also has no qualifications so would cost us X amount per game.
Is this my imagination but wasn't there a time many years ago, when the manager of the Tilted Barrel Sunday league team was going to apply for the job?
Just received a WhatsApp from a casual acquaintance suggesting there has been “contact” between the club and Justin Cochrane, currently a first-team coach at Brentford. No, me neither.
Not a lot I can do to validate the claim, so I would take this with as big a pinch of salt as the betting odds list, but another speculative name to add to the list.
A Nathan Rooney type appointment strikes me as the sort of thing I'd be comfortable with if we were in midtable obscurity, had been for years and wanting to give a fresh approach a go. Truth is we are not. Two things are true, we are towards the bottom end of the league and whilst I have every confidence the players are a damn sight better than where they are, caveated with the Management have obviously not got that out of them, a bad/risky appointment now could undo an awful lot of good work - by the owners but also PH (he deserves credit for the last two years and getting us back to where we are). In addition to that our goal must be to be towards the top and looking to move forward and capitalise on the increased money, attendances, feel good factor etc. I think the only way forward would be someone who you know they can do that as they've achieved it before.
Think the 'style' thing is abit of a red herring. Whilst undoubtedly there would be some moaning about how the Cowleys apparently play, even though i suppose many of us haven't seen much of it and when i spoke to a Lincoln fan the other week he said it wasn't as bad as is made out in retrospect. I think when we talk about attacking football, not many of us mean free flowing football. We have to understand that to a point Division 4 football is excrement, has been excrement for years, and will probably continue to be...excrement. I'm less interested with passing football and more interested in watching something that works, gets goals, attacking phases of play and has an intensity about it. Slade Mk 1 was my first proper season watching Town as a kid, i've seen better football since but nothing that was as effective or achieved more.
The more I've thought about it, the more the Cowley's would be my choice if possible. As Ska said earlier alot around abut them talking about values etc which links very closely to what Jason has said in the past.
Just received a WhatsApp from a casual acquaintance suggesting there has been “contact” between the club and Justin Cochrane, currently a first-team coach at Brentford. No, me neither.
Not a lot I can do to validate the claim, so I would take this with as big a pinch of salt as the betting odds list, but another speculative name to add to the list.
Followed by Wayne Burnett and Fabrizio Romano on twitter. Worth an interview.
Nathan Rooney has bundles of coaching experience and has been surrounded by some of the best managers in the game, just 0 managerial experience until Gibraltar. Interestingly I noticed his assistant manager is Marcelo Bielsas ex assistant manager.
Just received a WhatsApp from a casual acquaintance suggesting there has been “contact” between the club and Justin Cochrane, currently a first-team coach at Brentford. No, me neither.
Not a lot I can do to validate the claim, so I would take this with as big a pinch of salt as the betting odds list, but another speculative name to add to the list.
Someone like Justin Cochrane would I suggest be very interesting to our owners as someone up and coming with a strong reputation in the game, and why not every successful manager has their first opportunity somewhere and he's certainly served his coaching apprenticeship
Just received a WhatsApp from a casual acquaintance suggesting there has been “contact” between the club and Justin Cochrane, currently a first-team coach at Brentford. No, me neither.
Not a lot I can do to validate the claim, so I would take this with as big a pinch of salt as the betting odds list, but another speculative name to add to the list.
thats an impressive c.v. on first glance one i like the look of. Just texted a mutual friend who says he's a superb coach
also said that if it was his choice he'd have the Cowleys in a heart beat. Also said they are very good people, which I hadn't heard before (maybe then would be more in tune with 1878's approach)
I noticed that the chairman in his interview had mentioned several weeks before an appointment would be made, so i guess that Pearson/Davies subject to performance, style of play & results would count these two in as potential managers, especially given the fact that they both already live in the area.
A Nathan Rooney type appointment strikes me as the sort of thing I'd be comfortable with if we were in midtable obscurity, had been for years and wanting to give a fresh approach a go. Truth is we are not. Two things are true, we are towards the bottom end of the league and whilst I have every confidence the players are a damn sight better than where they are, caveated with the Management have obviously not got that out of them, a bad/risky appointment now could undo an awful lot of good work - by the owners but also PH (he deserves credit for the last two years and getting us back to where we are). In addition to that our goal must be to be towards the top and looking to move forward and capitalise on the increased money, attendances, feel good factor etc. I think the only way forward would be someone who you know they can do that as they've achieved it before.
Think the 'style' thing is abit of a red herring. Whilst undoubtedly there would be some moaning about how the Cowleys apparently play, even though i suppose many of us haven't seen much of it and when i spoke to a Lincoln fan the other week he said it wasn't as bad as is made out in retrospect. I think when we talk about attacking football, not many of us mean free flowing football. We have to understand that to a point Division 4 football is excrement, has been excrement for years, and will probably continue to be...excrement. I'm less interested with passing football and more interested in watching something that works, gets goals, attacking phases of play and has an intensity about it. Slade Mk 1 was my first proper season watching Town as a kid, i've seen better football since but nothing that was as effective or achieved more.
The more I've thought about it, the more the Cowley's would be my choice if possible. As Ska said earlier alot around abut them talking about values etc which links very closely to what Jason has said in the past.
Every appointment is a risk, but we are currently in a relegation battle and need someone who can handle that. Our initial style whilst we pull away from that may be completely different to how the new Head Coach wants to play.
I saw a lot of Lincoln under the Cowleys and I thought he was exceptional. Jamie McCombe used to sit at the top of the family stand with an earpiece to the bench, constantly talking about the game. I remember once that a Lincoln player committed a foul and McCombe said it was definitely a foul. The next second, Cowley is shouting that McCombe just told him it was never a foul. He just knew how to get that extra something out of the players.
They are huge on data, which will align with the board and he uses data to demand the best from his players. He expects his team to run harder than the opposition. Their motivations will obviously be different now, Lincoln was their first full-time job in football and failure would have seen them back at their day jobs. Huddersfield and Portsmouth will have paid quite well so their motivations will be different, but I would be excited if we could attract them. They have a will to win and we have often said that we are too nice, which they would address.
I noticed that the chairman in his interview had mentioned several weeks before an appointment would be made, so i guess that Pearson/Davies subject to performance, style of play & results would count these two in as potential managers, especially given the fact that they both already live in the area.
Also has no qualifications so would cost us X amount per game.
no thanks
No more of a bit of a laugh suggestion - he has done well though , another one who seems a good motivator tbf ; without all the fancy tickets managers now require .
It's interesting people talk about this new breed of coaches - Is it over complicating or the way forward ?
Will old school 'type ' manager just fade out of the game altogether ?
The new type certainly don't seem to have the character of say a big Sam , Warnock , Buckley or even Big Steve Evans ; they all seem heavily media trained to say the right thing and not always what they actually think .
I enjoyed Barry Fry storming down the touchline , meeting Big Ron at BP (and him being suprisingly short ) 'alright kid ' or something like that he said , the big Villa game . Even Slade seemed lively as the Frenchman will testify.
Maybe I am just a dinosaur but I don't feel that connection with this new modern type , maybe it's because they never last long either do they in the main .
I liked Hurst maybe he was a happy medium of the two contrasting 'types' .
I'm nervous , very nervous for this appointment as it's the butcher's son and the simply business leaders first big appointment , in a completely different setting than they are used to .
They need to get it correct
No one fancies another venture down there again do they , even if it's a bit of a laugh .
In his three stints as Grimsby Town manager spanning over 10 years the club was never relegated and he also guided them to three promotions. Only 14 managers have reached 1,000 matches in charge of a Football League team by 1998 and Buckley is one of them. GOD
Neil Woods caretaker spell was unspectacular to say the least. If Davies and Pearson get a tune out of the players and we start picking up results, they have to be considered. Pearson is a huge statto by all accounts and Davies has always come across really well when he has been on media duty.
If we are still looking for a manager as we approach the end of November and they have done really well, would you still say no?
I agree Rooney is too left wing, but I think too many people are fixating on his current job in Gibraltar. Before that, it appears he spent over 10 years building experience, working under numerous managers. Hiring him would be akin to poaching someone from an under 23 team, as has been suggested.
Paul Wilkinson was one of my favourite players but he was an awful manager. Pearson and Davies are just caretakers while we get someone who can get us out the crap again . Even if we win 2/3 games they are still caretakers . Let’s not forget they were part of the problem
I'm nervous , very nervous for this appointment as it's the butcher's son and the simply business leaders first big appointment , in a completely different setting than they are used to . .
What we need is someone who's flogged some frozen fish, they'd have the expertise and nous to get these decisions right.
What we need is someone who's flogged some frozen fish, they'd have the expertise and nous to get these decisions right.
No he's the whole reason I'm nervous - Nicky Law , Jolley , Graham Rodger , Newell and Slade part 2 .
They need to get it right otherwise we will be slating them in exactly the same way we did Fenty .
I mean , serious question - if they appoint this kid and it goes mammaries up and we go down again will all this goodwill about the project and wider picture still be there ?
I'm more than confident in the current regime than I ever was with JF in charge. At least we know the process will of been thorough and due dillegence would of been done. We won't be seeing any managers in Swashy at 4 in the morn after a loss.
No he's the whole reason I'm nervous - Nicky Law , Jolley , Graham Rodger , Newell and Slade part 2 .
They need to get it right otherwise we will be slating them in exactly the same way we did Fenty .
I mean , serious question - if they appoint this kid and it goes mammaries up and we go down again will all this goodwill about the project and wider picture still be there ?
I'm not saying we should hire him, I agree it would be too big of a risk. But any managerial appointment can be. In the 21st century, only Slade and Hurst have enjoyed any success. There are plenty of examples of experienced managers failing for us too.
For what it's worth, I think we should think our the box a little with someone who's got a good coaching background. The team has clearly got potential, it just needs coaching out of them
Cochrane would fit this bill really well and could be an exciting appointment, although it's obviously just rumours.
Neil Woods caretaker spell was unspectacular to say the least. If Davies and Pearson get a tune out of the players and we start picking up results, they have to be considered. Pearson is a huge statto by all accounts and Davies has always come across really well when he has been on media duty.
If we are still looking for a manager as we approach the end of November and they have done really well, would you still say no?
Yes I would still say no. For a start, the sentence I emboldened doesn't qualify either of them as a potential good manager. The other thing is that they were part of the coaching group that has got us into the position we are in now, so that doesn't bode well either. I don't know why, but some people who support GTFC seem to think ex players can come back and fill any role that may be up for grabs. We need a brand spanking new manager, who has no preconceived ideas about the club, and will attack the problem in his own way. That is my humble opinion anyway.
I agree Rooney is too left wing, but I think too many people are fixating on his current job in Gibraltar. Before that, it appears he spent over 10 years building experience, working under numerous managers. Hiring him would be akin to poaching someone from an under 23 team, as has been suggested.
just on that - messaged an acquaintance who's playing out there for 1 of the bottom feeders. Nothing on the 'grapevine' about him leaving. Says he's a good coach, voiceferous on the sidelines. At the bottom end of the league he rates it as step 4 , top of the league more like step 3 (i.e. 1 step below the Scunts) I would've thought that if he was looking to come back it's far more likely to be for someone like Boston or the Scunts rather than us, but given how wrong I've been, he will prob be doing a press conference at BP tomorrow
Cowley agreed terms at the beginning of the week but hasn’t signed the final deal as he ‘apparently’ was worried about the effects of moving his family.
thats an impressive c.v. on first glance one i like the look of. Just texted a mutual friend who says he's a superb coach
also said that if it was his choice he'd have the Cowleys in a heart beat. Also said they are very good people, which I hadn't heard before (maybe then would be more in tune with 1878's approach)
But he's an ex defender, so can't possibly coach attacking football.
Seriously though, if he's at Brentford, he will be conversant with a stats based approach liked by our directors.
As for those dissing Ben Davies as a possible; although I am in no way advocating him for the job, promoting coaches doesn't always fail. Adkins was put in temporary charge at Scunny before getting the top job and doing incredibly well. Michael Flynn at Newport also springs to mind. Both first team coaches who took the opportunity when it came along.
Read into this what you will, all seems very interesting to have agreed terms and all of a sudden change, would have thought to get that far ahead and agree you'd have squared that decision. It could be or it could not be the opportunity here. However Cowley apparently made made some interesting remarks about his next club, which sounds very much like Town. Hopefully we appoint someone in the next week or so as this si getting like the transfer thread
No I would still say no. For a start, the sentence I emboldened doesn't qualify either of them as a potential good manager. The other thing is that they were part of the coaching group that has got us into the position we are in now, so that doesn't bode well either. I don't know why, but some people who support GTFC seem to think ex players can come back and fill any role that may be up for grabs. We need a brand spanking new manager, who has no preconceived ideas about the club, and will attack the problem in his own way. That is my humble opinion anyway.
Just to point out. Pearson wasn't part of the coaching set-up. He was involved in scouting. Clearly he's been coaching in Academy football for many years at both GTFC and Wrexham, but until recently wasn't involved in coaching with our first team.
Also, although Ben Davies was part of the coaching team, it'd be pretty daft to apportion blame at his feet. It's not like he'd have been given free reign to coach whatever he wanted and influence the playing style. He'd have only been coaching to Hursts instructions/plan of how Hurst wanted the team to play.
"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one."
Just to point out. Pearson wasn't part of the coaching set-up. He was involved in scouting. Clearly he's been coaching in Academy football for many years at both GTFC and Wrexham, but until recently wasn't involved in coaching with our first team.
Also, although Ben Davies was part of the coaching team, it'd be pretty daft to apportion blame at his feet. It's not like he'd have been given free reign to coach whatever he wanted and influence the playing style. He'd have only been coaching to Hursts instructions/plan of how Hurst wanted the team to play.
Regardless, I think we can do much better than 2 untried 'manager's. In the position we are in at this moment in time, we need the best possible manager who has experience and can hopefully get us climbing the table. Now is NOT the time for experimenting.
We’re probably all ready far too much into it and it’s probably nothing but it’s still bloody exciting non the less.
Not sure I fancy going through it all for a few weeks, it seemed the list of good names were low but there’s some really interesting names coming out the woodwork.
Makes total sense to not want to move your family from Lincoln to Bradford to move it 170 miles south
Are they actually still in Lincoln though? If so, they may want to move back down south. They were obviously at Braintree so know the Essex area/are from there. Bradford isn’t that bad a commute from Lincoln. They did when at Huddersfield after all.
Can’t help thinking that when we’re back in the National - we will be begging Paul Hurst to get us back up again - if 4 straight narrow losses deserves this !!!!!!! What a joke - funny if it wasn’t sad. Sir Alan was held in a similar high esteem
Blundell Park - The Home of Grimsby Town Football Club (still)
Can’t help thinking that when we’re back in the National - we will be begging Paul Hurst to get us back up again - if 4 straight narrow losses deserves this !!!!!!! What a joke - funny if it wasn’t sad. Sir Alan was held in a similar high esteem
3 wins in 20, out of two cups at the first hurdle without a win in the paintpot trophy including against a Man City u18 team who played an hour with 10 boys.
Are they actually still in Lincoln though? If so, they may want to move back down south. They were obviously at Braintree so know the Essex area/are from there. Bradford isn’t that bad a commute from Lincoln. They did when at Huddersfield after all.
Yeah, think someone mentioned on here the wife has a job at a school in Lincoln and the kids go to school in Lincoln
Just to point out. Pearson wasn't part of the coaching set-up. He was involved in scouting. Clearly he's been coaching in Academy football for many years at both GTFC and Wrexham, but until recently wasn't involved in coaching with our first team.
Also, although Ben Davies was part of the coaching team, it'd be pretty daft to apportion blame at his feet. It's not like he'd have been given free reign to coach whatever he wanted and influence the playing style. He'd have only been coaching to Hursts instructions/plan of how Hurst wanted the team to play.
Whilst I respect your posts that's 1 I will disagree with. Wont say what I've heard about them, but they are very good at putting out cones.....
Are they actually still in Lincoln though? If so, they may want to move back down south. They were obviously at Braintree so know the Essex area/are from there. Bradford isn’t that bad a commute from Lincoln. They did when at Huddersfield after all.
Wife still working at a school in lincoln supposedly. Bradford is an awful feckin commute, 90 miles to their training ground, 2 hours
Paul Wilkinson was one of my favourite players but he was an awful manager. Pearson and Davies are just caretakers while we get someone who can get us out the crap again . Even if we win 2/3 games they are still caretakers . Let’s not forget they were part of the problem
They took jobs at Huddersfield and Portsmouth and made them work, so there maybe is more to the Bradford rejection than meets the eye. Maybe Bradford were insisting they move to the area, or maybe they had an offer that they found more attractive and maybe that is from ourselves. Bradford job is a bit of a poisoned chalice, whereas coming here, they have owners they align with and an untapped team and crowd to ignite.
If we have settled on someone, I reckon they would still let Davies and Pearson have the game at Slough, having announced to the world that they are in temporary charge.
All speculation on my part of course.
I'll add to the speculation, and I am certainly not in the know....
He's spent several years commuting to Huddersfield and then Portsmouth (I include living in a hotel or rented house) and then gets to spend a ton of time at home with the wife and kids, loves it and gets offered the choice between another commute or 45 mins max to Waltham. He weighs it up and decides quality of life is more important than a few more quid, and there's money in the bank anyway. His view of the world is similar to JS and AP and he thinks he can make it happen here. Job's a good 'un, hello Grimsby.
Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
Anyone on the lincoln forum? What are the gimps saying?
Some are convinced they’re going back to the Gimps but they live down south apparently. One child is playing for Chelsea women’s academy and the other is doing her GCSEs so don’t want to uproot.
Not sure if he's coming here or Lincoln, but the Lincoln job has been on the market for two weeks and as seen, he's turned down the Bradford approach due to family reasons. The Lincoln job has been on the market all the time he's been speaking to Bradford so why would he be speaking to Bradford if he was getting the Lincoln job? The only change since he's been speaking to Bradford is that our job has become available...
Isn’t Lincoln the obvious answer? What am I missing?
To me the timing seems strange if so, he was going to take the Bradford job but had a change of heart.. the only circumstances that has changed since then is our jobs become available and he's spoken with the owners.
Some are convinced they’re going back to the Gimps but they live down south apparently. One child is playing for Chelsea women’s academy and the other is doing her GCSEs so don’t want to uproot.
But another poster said she teaches at a school in Lincoln?
Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
But another poster said she teaches at a school in Lincoln?
a couple of the more inform Lincoln based lads said they're based in Lincoln still, if they were down south it'd be Colchester but with what's already been mentioned about how he wants a club to progress with and a plan.. I don't think a club with 4 different managers in 3 years is one to entice him in.
Yes I would still say no. For a start, the sentence I emboldened doesn't qualify either of them as a potential good manager. The other thing is that they were part of the coaching group that has got us into the position we are in now, so that doesn't bode well either. I don't know why, but some people who support GTFC seem to think ex players can come back and fill any role that may be up for grabs. We need a brand spanking new manager, who has no preconceived ideas about the club, and will attack the problem in his own way. That is my humble opinion anyway.
Totally disagree, how can you possibly qualify anyone as a good or bad manager until they've had a go . Man management and confidence is a massive part of football ,if these two can raise our game in the near future we should give them a fair chance to develope. I know they are already backroom staff but we don't know if they've been allowed to give their opinions or input. Throwing money at a NAME manager doesn't always work, sometimes it's just the right men in the right place at the right time .
Totally disagree, how can you possibly qualify anyone as a good or bad manager until they've had a go . Man management and confidence is a massive part of football ,if these two can raise our game in the near future we should give them a fair chance to develope. I know they are already backroom staff but we don't know if they've been allowed to give their opinions or input. Throwing money at a NAME manager doesn't always work, sometimes it's just the right men in the right place at the right time .
That bit at the end in bold is key.
Going for an experienced manager isn't a guarantee of success, just like hiring someone for their first managerial job doesn't mean they're going to fail.
For me, I don't have a preferred route for us to go down....I.e. experienced gaffer, up and coming coach, non-league boss doing well, someone from academy football etc etc. There would be good and bad candidates for all of those "types."
It's just about getting the right man for the job regardless of which mould of applicant they fit.
"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one."
Yes I would still say no. For a start, the sentence I emboldened doesn't qualify either of them as a potential good manager. The other thing is that they were part of the coaching group that has got us into the position we are in now, so that doesn't bode well either. I don't know why, but some people who support GTFC seem to think ex players can come back and fill any role that may be up for grabs. We need a brand spanking new manager, who has no preconceived ideas about the club, and will attack the problem in his own way. That is my humble opinion anyway.
The media output makes and breaks managers in the modern game, so Ben Davies coming across well goes in his favour. Pearson being a bit of a statto means that data will drive him. I know people have their opinions on data, but the board will be looking for someone who is passionate about it.
If Davies and Pearson got the job on a permanent basis tomorrow, that would be very uninspiring but if they racked up some impressive results over the next few weeks then we would be stupid to not consider it.
I'm not obsessed with ex-players but you have picked this out in two posts I've made in recent days; one of which was commenting on a post about Tommy Widdrington where I stated my belief that he was a former player who could be considered on merit.
I didn't reply to these threads because it was you posting in them, far from it. I posted because it is about a subject that I don't think has ever worked for Grimsby Town. I'm sure people will tell me if I'm wrong.
Totally disagree, how can you possibly qualify anyone as a good or bad manager until they've had a go . Man management and confidence is a massive part of football ,if these two can raise our game in the near future we should give them a fair chance to develope. I know they are already backroom staff but we don't know if they've been allowed to give their opinions or input. Throwing money at a NAME manager doesn't always work, sometimes it's just the right men in the right place at the right time .
What I am saying is that with us wallowing at the bottom end of league Two, is not the time to see if a couple of coaches are good enough to manage the squad and get us out of the mess we are in.
Lets get this 100% straight the Cowleys moved 100% to Portsmouth a few summers ago! There parents who owned a house at Burton Waters have sold up ! They have retained a house (s)in the Braintree area! After leaving a rented house in Burton Waters the Cowleys both rented houses in an area called the Colisseum with stunning views of Lincoln Cathedral.I very much doubt Kate Cowley works for a school/college in town still unless its consulting work. A daughter is at chelsea ladies academy.
The future who knows!?! I wouldnt pay any attention to Rokerite who is just guessing at everything.We have interviewd people and i would guess an an anouncement to be made next week ( wednesday) ,our chaiman is currently home in South Africa!
Stephen Bradley ! The Cowleys or Leam Richardson may get the job ! Someone i know who is not a bull shitter says the Cowleys have been seen at the club by him( however they may have come for Colin Murphys funeral on tuesday)
I would say wait a week and everything will be alot clearer for us all.
What I am saying is that with us wallowing at the bottom end of league Two, is not the time to see if a couple of coaches are good enough to manage the squad and get us out of the mess we are in.
Agreed - better for board to have properly supported / been loyal to the management team they appointed - and who did so well for them previous 2 seasons - rather than undermine the process with data.
Blundell Park - The Home of Grimsby Town Football Club (still)
Gimps fans think the Cowleys are going back there.
Lincoln have got a shortlist of people they're looking at of which the Cowleys are one option. Keeping Tom Shaw is another and they're definitely considering Stephen Bradley but I'm told his personal circumstances (don't know what they are) may make this difficult. This is from a very good source.
The personal circumstances are his young son was just diagnosed last summer with Cancer thats why he didnt come last year. I would hope this is now being treated etc etc. He has stated though he wants to " go for 5 in a row of irish titles with shamrock rovers" however he also said" its up to shamrocks directors" which could mean anything.
Lets get this 100% straight the Cowleys moved 100% to Portsmouth a few summers ago! There parents who owned a house at Burton Waters have sold up ! They have retained a house (s)in the Braintree area! After leaving a rented house in Burton Waters the Cowleys both rented houses in an area called the Colisseum with stunning views of Lincoln Cathedral.I very much doubt Kate Cowley works for a school/college in town still unless its consulting work. A daughter is at chelsea ladies academy.
The future who knows!?! I wouldnt pay any attention to Rokerite who is just guessing at everything.We have interviewd people and i would guess an an anouncement to be made next week ( wednesday) ,our chaiman is currently home in South Africa!
Stephen Bradley ! The Cowleys or Leam Richardson may get the job ! Someone i know who is not a bull shitter says the Cowleys have been seen at the club by him( however they may have come for Colin Murphys funeral on tuesday)
I would say wait a week and everything will be alot clearer for us all.
I wouldn't pay much attention to me either! But I've only made two one line posts on here recently and I fear both will come true.
The news today was extremely disappointing. I thought Bradford City was the perfect job for the Cowleys and to find out they were within hours of taking it only for Danny to perform a u-turn is infuriating. As you say the families are settled in Portsmouth now and won't be moving. If the brothers take the Lincoln job then the "family reasons" excuse for rejecting Bradford City is nonsense. They will be living nearly four hours from their family homes. As football managers I'd have expected them to accept that as the price for doing the job they love.
I'm afraid there is zero chance the Cowleys will be the next Grimsby Town management team. But there aren't many management jobs within commuting distance of Portsmouth, so if Danny was being truthful he and Nicky could be sitting at home for some time to come.
Clearly nobody knows anything credible - including where the Cowleys currently live or what the family do, and some can’t help themselves spouting speculative hearsay and hogwash just for the hell of it.
Clearly nobody knows anything credible - including where the Cowleys currently live or what the family do, and some can’t help themselves spouting speculative hearsay and hogwash just for the hell of it.
It has been well documented that both brothers' families live in Portsmouth. In an interview Danny's wife gave last year while he was still Portsmouth Manager she states quite clearly that the family will not move in the next few years no matter where Danny's job takes him.
Clearly nobody knows anything credible - including where the Cowleys currently live or what the family do, and some can’t help themselves spouting speculative hearsay and hogwash just for the hell of it.
The bookies think they do he is in to evens favorite
I wouldn't pay much attention to me either! But I've only made two one line posts on here recently and I fear both will come true.
The news today was extremely disappointing. I thought Bradford City was the perfect job for the Cowleys and to find out they were within hours of taking it only for Danny to perform a u-turn is infuriating. As you say the families are settled in Portsmouth now and won't be moving. If the brothers take the Lincoln job then the "family reasons" excuse for rejecting Bradford City is nonsense. They will be living nearly four hours from their family homes. As football managers I'd have expected them to accept that as the price for doing the job they love.
I'm afraid there is zero chance the Cowleys will be the next Grimsby Town management team. But there aren't many management jobs within commuting distance of Portsmouth, so if Danny was being truthful he and Nicky could be sitting at home for some time to come.
Except for the fact that Danny Cowley himself said live on Sky Sports that he is speaking to 3 clubs about the vacant managerial positions. Bradford, Lincoln and Grimsby. Now he's turned Bradford down so i'd say that's more of a 50% chance than 0.
Except for the fact that Danny Cowley himself said live on Sky Sports that he is speaking to 3 clubs about the vacant managerial positions. Bradford, Lincoln and Grimsby. Now he's turned Bradford down so i'd say that's more of a 50% chance than 0.
I hope you're right. I'd much prefer the Cowleys coming to Grimsby Town than returning to Lincoln City. But I'd be astonished if they're holding black and white scarves anytime soon.
Rokerite appearing on several forums today spouting stuff on the Cowleys and yet he apparently supports sunderland!
He has stated the Cowleys will be back at Lincoln within days and will regret it. How he knows that i dont know ,pure guesswork i would imagine .
We shall see
ROKERITE always on several forums when there are managerial vacancies.. For the last month particularly on City Talk.
I don't know the Cowleys will be back at Lincoln within days but I expect them to be. I fear he will come to regret snubbing Bradford City but I hope he will be very successful if he does return to Sincil Bank.
Rockerite spouting more crap on lincoln vitals ! Stick to the sunderland forum rather than this one ,ours and bantams talk .You have said so much today on these forums you might get it right somehow !
ROKERITE always on several forums when there are managerial vacancies.. For the last month particularly on City Talk.
I don't know the Cowleys will be back at Lincoln within days but I expect them to be. I fear he will come to regret snubbing Bradford City but I hope he will be very successful if he does return to Sincil Bank.
If Cowley gets the job here it would be the best possible appointment we could make. Great track record in this division, couldn’t give a bollock about style of football he will get us winning games.
Just going back to the stats with this thread now growing at about 12 pages a day the owners will need to take another 30 days to appoint a new manager before it matches the Scunthorpe thread.
ROKERITE always on several forums when there are managerial vacancies.. For the last month particularly on City Talk.
I don't know the Cowleys will be back at Lincoln within days but I expect them to be. I fear he will come to regret snubbing Bradford City but I hope he will be very successful if he does return to Sincil Bank.
Jimmy Dean, when I first heard his interviews on RH I thought he was way out of his depth and couldn’t string a sentence together without adding the word ‘mate’ in it but he now talks like he actually knows what he is talking about, maybe not for us this time but you never know 🤣🤣
It has been well documented that both brothers' families live in Portsmouth. In an interview Danny's wife gave last year while he was still Portsmouth Manager she states quite clearly that the family will not move in the next few years no matter where Danny's job takes him.
Other people have said that he lives in Lincoln and his wife works there.
Daily Mirror reporting Nathan Rooney is in the frame for the job.
On the outside his stats look fantastic, but putting a 34 year old through what could be a relegation scrap, I'm not sure he'll have the thick skin needed tbh.
Dont confuse this lad with Michael Jolley though, his win ratio blows MJ out the water, although it is in a league with a quality around the Isthmian League looking at it.
Other people have said that he lives in Lincoln and his wife works there.
That is just incorrect and Fraser the Chimp fan is totally accurate and I said yesterday that the Cowley’s vacated their rented accommodation in Lincoln a couple of years ago and they certainly don’t still live around here.
I also said the strong gossip over here is that Lincoln’s first choice is Bradley from Shamrock Rovers but clearly that doesn’t seem straightforward and I heard there was quite a bit of reticence about appointing the Cowleys. But obviously Danny turned down the Bradford job for a reason but for all we know a more southerly based club may have contacted them as they are considering sacking their Manager. A lot of clubs want the replacement sorted before pressing the button so who knows.
This time next week things may be clearer but that timescale doesn’t really fit with what Jason said in his interview so we could be guessing for quite some time yet!
That is just incorrect and Fraser the Chimp fan is totally accurate and I said yesterday that the Cowley’s vacated their rented accommodation in Lincoln a couple of years ago and they certainly don’t still live around here.
I also said the strong gossip over here is that Lincoln’s first choice is Bradley from Shamrock Rovers but clearly that doesn’t seem straightforward and I heard there was quite a bit of reticence about appointing the Cowleys. But obviously Danny turned down the Bradford job for a reason but for all we know a more southerly based club may have contacted them as they are considering sacking their Manager. A lot of clubs want the replacement sorted before pressing the button so who knows.
This time next week things may be clearer but that timescale doesn’t really fit with what Jason said in his interview so we could be guessing for quite some time yet!
That may be so but if what is said is true and he’s living down south then why did he himself say on Sky Sports that he was in talks with 3 clubs all in the north? To me that sounds like they’re wanting to move back north. Colchester and Gillingham jobs were both available for much longer than ours. Just doesn’t make sense to me and I think he’s turned the Bradford job down due to him seeing a better opportunity. Whether that’s us or Lincoln we’ll have to see but he’s definitely held talks with us as he openly admitted on Sky Sports that there’d been contact between himself and us.
Dean reminds me of the Macclesfield boss form our first stint in non-league, Steve King! Real cockney wise boy, all the patter but ultimately a chancer!
I remember interviewing him for the telegraph after we played them at BP and the entire recording was mainly him swearing! He gave no shits about professionalism!
"They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old, Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn, At the going down of the sun, and in the morning, We WILL remember them"
That may be so but if what is said is true and he’s living down south then why did he himself say on Sky Sports that he was in talks with 3 clubs all in the north? To me that sounds like they’re wanting to move back north. Colchester and Gillingham jobs were both available for much longer than ours. Just doesn’t make sense to me and I think he’s turned the Bradford job down due to him seeing a better opportunity. Whether that’s us or Lincoln we’ll have to see but he’s definitely held talks with us as he openly admitted on Sky Sports that there’d been contact between himself and us.
My thoughts exactly! If coming back north was an option for his family then why accept even conversations with us Bradford and seemingly Lincoln, never mind actually accepting the job, albeit then having a u-turn! It’s that u-turn that has me thinking we’re involved somehow, as we’re the only thing that has changed in between him accepting the job and then turning it down! I fully believe we reached out to him, had a conversation and pitched him the vision, the structure, the plans and values of the club and the Cowleys have seen it as a great fit with their own wish list!
Of course it could all just be rumours but I think they’d be excellent appointments for us, regardless of their Lincoln history!
"They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old, Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn, At the going down of the sun, and in the morning, We WILL remember them"
My no1 choice would be the cowleys been there done it at our level , in our position we cant afford to groom a young inexperiance football lge manager like rooney or parkinson , we must be a lge 2 side nxt yr at all costs so just bring them in
I think Hurst's ultimate downfall came because he's assembled a footballing side. Players who need the ball to feet like Conteh, Rose, Eisa, Gnahou, Wilson, even our defenders like Mullarkey.
And this is why I'm very calm about the situation. Its bizarre but he has built a side with plenty of good footballing players. I just hope the next manager that comes in sees that and looks to play that way.
My thoughts exactly! If coming back north was an option for his family then why accept even conversations with us Bradford and seemingly Lincoln, never mind actually accepting the job, albeit then having a u-turn! It’s that u-turn that has me thinking we’re involved somehow, as we’re the only thing that has changed in between him accepting the job and then turning it down! I fully believe we reached out to him, had a conversation and pitched him the vision, the structure, the plans and values of the club and the Cowleys have seen it as a great fit with their own wish list!
Of course it could all just be rumours but I think they’d be excellent appointments for us, regardless of their Lincoln history!
Yeah it’s one hell of a coincidence if we aren’t somehow involved.. I could understand if he was maybe talking with one club up North and potentially flirting with the idea of coming back up here if they are based down south but speaking with 3 clubs and accepting terms with one all within the same sort of area signifies there’s an intent to want to come back up North.
And this is why I'm very calm about the situation. Its bizarre but he has built a side with plenty of good footballing players. I just hope the next manager that comes in sees that and looks to play that way.
Are there plenty of good footballing players though? I think that's a bit of a myth amongst our fan base. Eastwood is absolutely terrible with the ball at his feet for starters so it makes the defence and the entire ground nervous when it's played back to him. We've only got three centre backs and Waterfall most definitely isn't capable of playing a possession based game so should injuries/suspensions occur which they undoubtedly do at CB then you're already putting square pegs in round holes if you're trying to play out from the back. We haven't got a decent left back, certainly not one capable of getting forward and still being defensively capable. And on the other side I think Mullarkey is very over rated by a lot of our fans. He puts in some good deliveries but it's not consistent and he's not amazing on the ball going forward, certainly not as good as Efete at breaking forward with the ball and he's regularly beaten in one on one situations by tricky wingers. In centre mid we've only really got Hunt and Conteh that are comfortable with the ball at the feet. For all their good attributes none of Green, Holohan or Clifton are actually very good with the ball and none of them look to play between the lines. Out wide Eisa started the season really well but now the goals have dried up his actual contribution in open play is minimal in my opinion and he also offers very little defensive support or cover for the left backs which is partly why it's such a problem for us. Then finally up front I think Rose is a good player and can link up play well but Pyke is fairly useless in just about every regard up top and so far Wilson's goal return is great but I don't think he's offered much in open play. That isn't a complaint as I'm glad he's scoring, it's merely an observation.
I think the real problem is that Hurst tried to move towards a more footballing team without recognising that a significant percentage of the players we retained aren't capable of playing that way. Equally, some of the players that he's brought in are not capable of the up and at them, keep it tight approach that successful Hurst teams have employed. So we've got a squad that is neither one thing nor the other. So whoever comes in will need to assess what our main strengths are and try to play as much to that as we can and then in January will need some reinforcements to remove our weaknesses.
Are there plenty of good footballing players though? I think that's a bit of a myth amongst our fan base. Eastwood is absolutely terrible with the ball at his feet for starters so it makes the defence and the entire ground nervous when it's played back to him. We've only got three centre backs and Waterfall most definitely isn't capable of playing a possession based game so should injuries/suspensions occur which they undoubtedly do at CB then you're already putting square pegs in round holes if you're trying to play out from the back. We haven't got a decent left back, certainly not one capable of getting forward and still being defensively capable. And on the other side I think Mullarkey is very over rated by a lot of our fans. He puts in some good deliveries but it's not consistent and he's not amazing on the ball going forward, certainly not as good as Efete at breaking forward with the ball and he's regularly beaten in one on one situations by tricky wingers. In centre mid we've only really got Hunt and Conteh that are comfortable with the ball at the feet. For all their good attributes none of Green, Holohan or Clifton are actually very good with the ball and none of them look to play between the lines. Out wide Eisa started the season really well but now the goals have dried up his actual contribution in open play is minimal in my opinion and he also offers very little defensive support or cover for the left backs which is partly why it's such a problem for us. Then finally up front I think Rose is a good player and can link up play well but Pyke is fairly useless in just about every regard up top and so far Wilson's goal return is great but I don't think he's offered much in open play. That isn't a complaint as I'm glad he's scoring, it's merely an observation.
I think the real problem is that Hurst tried to move towards a more footballing team without recognising that a significant percentage of the players we retained aren't capable of playing that way. Equally, some of the players that he's brought in are not capable of the up and at them, keep it tight approach that successful Hurst teams have employed. So we've got a squad that is neither one thing nor the other. So whoever comes in will need to assess what our main strengths are and try to play as much to that as we can and then in January will need some reinforcements to remove our weaknesses.
Pretty much sums it up. That said, decent teams in this division have a balance of grafters and more technically talented players. It’s putting the pieces together that matters.
Yeah it’s one hell of a coincidence if we aren’t somehow involved.. I could understand if he was maybe talking with one club up North and potentially flirting with the idea of coming back up here if they are based down south but speaking with 3 clubs and accepting terms with one all within the same sort of area signifies there’s an intent to want to come back up North.
"They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old, Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn, At the going down of the sun, and in the morning, We WILL remember them"
Whilst this will be unpopular with most on here, I believe in the current situation, the sooner we get Luke Waterfall back in the team on a regular basis the better. We need him for his effort and leadership qualities.
Whilst this will be unpopular with most on here, I believe in the current situation, the sooner we get Luke Waterfall back in the team on a regular basis the better. We need him for his effort and leadership qualities.
I disagree. He's never been quick but he's really slowed down in the last six months and has become a liability. Also means that we drop significantly deeper as a team.
Waterfall is of the age where he needs to be playing pretty much every week to get himself up to pace and fully fit. If he's not seen as first choice (and Rodgers and Maher seem the obvious starters for us), then he's always likely to be a bit off the pace whenever he is called on. Centre backs can go on into their late 30s quite often, but he's always been a combative sort who does the job by winning his battles rather than cuter positioning or reading the game cleverly. Which is why he hasn't been seen as first choice this season.
I disagree. He's never been quick but he's really slowed down in the last six months and has become a liability. Also means that we drop significantly deeper as a team.
only bloke who shows a bit of passion though.We've no leaders on that pitch at all when LW doesn't play
I agree with you though that he has looked poor this season
Never stops working, full of passion, sweats blood for the cause, battles for everything. Yes, he's not the most gifted natural footballer we've got but he more than makes up for that with other attributes.
He would be the first name on the team sheet if I was manager.
Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
If Cowley gets the job here it would be the best possible appointment we could make. Great track record in this division, couldn’t give a bollock about style of football he will get us winning games.
People will be moaning about the style of football by Christmas. It’s what we do.
Never stops working, full of passion, sweats blood for the cause, battles for everything. Yes, he's not the most gifted natural footballer we've got but he more than makes up for that with other attributes.
He would be the first name on the team sheet if I was manager.
Oh don't get me wrong I really like Gav, I think he's been very good this season.
But i dont see any leaders on the pitch except when Waterfall plays, I note Rose has been captain most of the season but I wonder if we'll see a change in that when a new manager comes
Location: Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middle...
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People will be moaning about the style of football by Christmas. It’s what we do.
You can't please all the people all the time but the moaning would reduce if were winning on a reasonably regular basis.
Some want us to play like 1970s Brazil but don't get that that is unlikely to happen when you don't have Jairzinho et al to call upon. They're probably the same people who moaned about the great Buckley team not being direct enough.
Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
Oh don't get me wrong I really like Gav, I think he's been very good this season.
But i dont see any leaders on the pitch except when Waterfall plays, I note Rose has been captain most of the season but I wonder if we'll see a change in that when a new manager comes
I agree (again) and see the same thing. I wonder if Waterfall and Gav playing less of a role this year and a couple of departures (Taylor? McAtee?) have reduced the leadership in games that made us more solid last year and in the NL. Add to that Crocombe in goal, he made his feelings clear.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that McAtee was a leader but he was vocal and made it very clear when he wasn't happy with something and that might have helped keep standards higher - I've played with some good strikers who told you exactly where they wanted the ball and if it didn't arrive there you were told about that as well.
So that's a spine of players that are no longer in the team regularly or at all and don't seem to have been replaced with other leaders or vocal characters.
Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
Lets get this 100% straight the Cowleys moved 100% to Portsmouth a few summers ago! There parents who owned a house at Burton Waters have sold up ! They have retained a house (s)in the Braintree area! After leaving a rented house in Burton Waters the Cowleys both rented houses in an area called the Colisseum with stunning views of Lincoln Cathedral.I very much doubt Kate Cowley works for a school/college in town still unless its consulting work. A daughter is at chelsea ladies academy.
The future who knows!?! I wouldnt pay any attention to Rokerite who is just guessing at everything.We have interviewd people and i would guess an an anouncement to be made next week ( wednesday) ,our chaiman is currently home in South Africa!
Stephen Bradley ! The Cowleys or Leam Richardson may get the job ! Someone i know who is not a bull shitter says the Cowleys have been seen at the club by him( however they may have come for Colin Murphys funeral on tuesday)
I would say wait a week and everything will be alot clearer for us all.
Writing gonads is part and parcel of all football fora. However, from a cursory scroll through the thread on the Fishy about the search for their new manager takes it to a whole new level and is incredibly entertaining, if one wants a smile with their morning cuppa take a looksee.
Writing gonads is part and parcel of all football fora. However, from a cursory scroll through the thread on the Fishy about the search for their new manager takes it to a whole new level and is incredibly entertaining, if one wants a smile with their morning cuppa take a looksee.
He’s got a point . The Cowleys aren’t coming here and neither is anyone with a decent record in the efl imo . It will be a left field appointment that no one saw coming imo
Understand Paul Hurst is in talks with Lincoln and we are set to appoint Oliver William Twisleton-Wykeham-Fiennes with the Lincoln imp serving as Director of Football.
He’s got a point . The Cowleys aren’t coming here and neither is anyone with a decent record in the efl imo . It will be a left field appointment that no one saw coming imo
Life is sh*t, I hate myself, we are all doomed, I don't know why I don't just go outside and kill myself.....
Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
He’s got a point . The Cowleys aren’t coming here and neither is anyone with a decent record in the efl imo . It will be a left field appointment that no one saw coming imo
As if you could possibly have a clue anyway, and with your general propensity to chat absolute hogwash, and the fact that you named yourself after a dreadfully vapid 80’s pop one hit wonder act, I’m sure you won’t mind if I ascribe your opinion on this precisely zero credence at all.
A bit left field this but i have a feeling the new manager is already in the bag, maybe they need to get their house in order with moves ect but that also gives them time to watch the team and look at the set up before the pressure starts?
Im not a huge Cowleys fan but for me i think it looks likely, there kids still go to school fairly local as mentioned in the interview, they were happy in Lincoln area and its basically on our doorstep.
Im not a betting man(well i am, but its a phrase) but i think we will see the Cowley family rock up very soon once they get moved back.
only bloke who shows a bit of passion though.We've no leaders on that pitch at all when LW doesn't play
I agree with you though that he has looked poor this season
Yes, he is slower, however, I never realised he was such a gobby beggar until I watched a video of a closeup when we were defending a corner. Jivvies up our lot and unsettles the opposition. I personally forgive him for the speed, because he does a good job in marshalling the the younger ones at the back. He's like the grizzled Sarge in the trench I don't know what got into him for his second yellow which got him sent off. I just think the team had fallen apart by that time and nothing was going right. Let's hope Davies/Pearson can instil some order for the Slough match.
A bit left field this but i have a feeling the new manager is already in the bag, maybe they need to get their house in order with moves ect but that also gives them time to watch the team and look at the set up before the pressure starts?
Im not a huge Cowleys fan but for me i think it looks likely, there kids still go to school fairly local as mentioned in the interview, they were happy in Lincoln area and its basically on our doorstep.
Im not a betting man(well i am, but its a phrase) but i think we will see the Cowley family rock up very soon once they get moved back.
Course i could be way off mark.
Think their kids are at private school in Hampshire, but Christ knows where they all live now or whether they’d be moving.
As if you could possibly have a clue anyway, and with your general propensity to chat absolute hogwash, and the fact that you named yourself after a dreadfully vapid 80’s pop one hit wonder act, I’m sure you won’t mind if I ascribe your opinion on this precisely zero credence at all.
To be fair, It Bites morphed into a second rate prog rock band after their one hit. If your life is truly empty and meaningless you can still go and see them live.
Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
To be fair, It Bites morphed into a second rate prog rock band after their one hit. If your life is truly empty and meaningless you can still go and see them live.
Saw them in the 80’s at the Coatham Bowl in Redcar - once was more than enough thanks.
I don’t think it’s remotely possible but I’d take the Cowley’s in a heartbeat.
Style of football is important to me but style of winning is more important considering where we currently sit in the league & face what could be a relegation battle.
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
If Cowleys kids and wife are settled in Hampshire why would they want to move to Bradford or Grimsby?
Seems to be a clincher you’d think. Massive commute, even if you rented locally and went home periodically. Still, Hampshire - that’s gonna be a decent commute to anywhere unless the Southampton job comes up! Suppose it partly depends on how much they need the money.
Regardless, I think we can do much better than 2 untried 'manager's. In the position we are in at this moment in time, we need the best possible manager who has experience and can hopefully get us climbing the table. Now is NOT the time for experimenting.
Now is the exact time to be experimenting. As you have just pointed out ( we need the best possible manager who has experience and can HOPEFULLY ) get us climbing the table . Nothing is certain , give Davies and Pearson a go Who knows we may just uncover two of the best managers this country has ever produced . Sir Alan Buckley was just an untried chancer at one point.
Now is the exact time to be experimenting. As you have just pointed out ( we need the best possible manager who has experience and can HOPEFULLY ) get us climbing the table . Nothing is certain , give Davies and Pearson a go Who knows we may just uncover two of the best managers this country has ever produced . Sir Alan Buckley was just an untried chancer at one point.
Really, in the league position we are in? I'd rather put my trust in a experienced league manager, or 2, not give the position to 2 guys who have been with us coaching the first team, and the academy. We can do much better than that. Come on, not even you believe that 2nd last sentence.
What I am saying is that with us wallowing at the bottom end of league Two, is not the time to see if a couple of coaches are good enough to manage the squad and get us out of the mess we are in.
The Cowleys have definitely been interviewed for the Lincoln job, I had that confirmed today from a golfing mate who works part time at the club. His view is, and the board haven’t shared this with him obviously, is that they are reluctant to turn the clock back and their CEO Jez George isn’t that keen on working with them again. The reason for this being that previously they had total control of the club and acted on occasions in areas beyond their remit and that would be totally unacceptable moving forwards.
What this does demonstrate is that the Cowley brothers are willing to work up this way even though their families may be left down south in the short term. Whether this means they will consider the town job who knows but given Danny’s comments on Sky Sports we must be an option.
I can also confirm that Jez George and CEO Liam Scully are in Ireland tonight watching Shelbourne v Drogheda.We have signed a player from Shelbourne,Jack Moylan and Jez George goes over regularly scouting however its interesting our CEO is there tonight as well.I would suggest that Damian Duff is going to be chatted to tomorrow! Very underwhelming for me if true but might be very exciting re the brothers for you
If Cowleys kids and wife are settled in Hampshire why would they want to move to Bradford or Grimsby?
Because he’s been unemployed over 9 months and whilst he would have been paid compensation when Portsmouth sacked him that money won’t last for ever. He will need to find another job soon. A bit of punditry here and there for Sky Sports doesn’t pay that much.
Thought Shaun came across very well Good luck to them this weekend
Agree with this - he did a very good interview. Let's see. Not sure that we need an experienced manager at this level holds water - Lennie Lawrence & other old farts doing the rounds didn't set the place on fire. Sir Allan mark 1 & Laurie Mac with no experience at this level certainly did?
Agree with this - he did a very good interview. Let's see. Not sure that we need an experienced manager at this level holds water - Lennie Lawrence & other old farts doing the rounds didn't set the place on fire. Sir Allan mark 1 & Laurie Mac with no experience at this level certainly did?
Buckley was a good 10 years deep into his management career when he first took over in 1988 (despite the fact he was only 37 at the time). They started him young at Walsall.
Agree with this - he did a very good interview. Let's see. Not sure that we need an experienced manager at this level holds water - Lennie Lawrence & other old farts doing the rounds didn't set the place on fire. Sir Allan mark 1 & Laurie Mac with no experience at this level certainly did?
Lawrie Mac had managed Doncaster prior to coming to Town and won Div 4 with them as well as us.
Agree with this - he did a very good interview. Let's see. Not sure that we need an experienced manager at this level holds water - Lennie Lawrence & other old farts doing the rounds didn't set the place on fire. Sir Allan mark 1 & Laurie Mac with no experience at this level certainly did?
I can also confirm that Jez George and CEO Liam Scully are in Ireland tonight watching Shelbourne v Drogheda.We have signed a player from Shelbourne,Jack Moylan and Jez George goes over regularly scouting however its interesting our CEO is there tonight as well.I would suggest that Damian Duff is going to be chatted to tomorrow! Very underwhelming for me if true but might be very exciting re the brothers for you
I thought you were going to appoint Bradley of Shamrock Rovers
GTFC bound he says.I wasn't really wanting them but like he pointed out were playing excrement anyway so it's not like the Cowley’s will spoil my viewing. I will get behind whoever comes in and let's see where it takes us UTM
An Imps season ticket holder has messaged me and says we've got the Cowley brothers and they'll be announced next week?
I hope he isn't teasing you. Their appointment would be very exciting and could usher in a golden period for Grimsby Town.
I don't mean to offend Grimsby supporters when I say Bradford City is a much bigger club than yours. If Danny Cowley pulled out of the Valley Parade job to take yours it shows two things; how unattractive Bradford City is right now and how completely different and inviting Grimsby Town now appears than when Mr Fenty was at the top.
I hope he isn't teasing you. Their appointment would be very exciting and could usher in a golden period for Grimsby Town.
I don't mean to offend Grimsby supporters when I say Bradford City is a much bigger club than yours. If Danny Cowley pulled out of the Valley Parade job to take yours it shows two things; how unattractive Bradford City is right now and how completely different and inviting Grimsby Town now appears than when Mr Fenty was at the top.
Here's hoping his message is true.
If it's true then a few heads will be turned and a few minds will be changed (through gritted teeth in Lincoln) as the attraction of the Town job under the new owners becomes apparent. Ignore it if you want but we are a modernised club with some very astute people behind it with a sensible plan to run a club successfully with none of the silly spending that is crippling parts of the game. That alone matches the Cowleys thinking, and if not them then whoever comes in will be just as finely tuned into the boards approach.
I have heard something similar, albeit from a better source.
This lad is in the loop with all things Imps related so it's promising in so much as they're respected lower league managers and like rokerite suggests a bit of a coup for Town over other sides like Bradford
I hope he isn't teasing you. Their appointment would be very exciting and could usher in a golden period for Grimsby Town.
I don't mean to offend Grimsby supporters when I say Bradford City is a much bigger club than yours. If Danny Cowley pulled out of the Valley Parade job to take yours it shows two things; how unattractive Bradford City is right now and how completely different and inviting Grimsby Town now appears than when Mr Fenty was at the top.
Here's hoping his message is true.
The size of Bradford is appealing yes, but the expectation there is massive couple that with a mid table self funded budget in a division of big spenders. Owners that don’t really give a excrement and a CEO that the fans absolutely can’t stand. A poisoned chalice.
This lad is in the loop with all things Imps related so it's promising in so much as they're respected lower league managers and like rokerite suggests a bit of a coup for Town over other sides like Bradford
Indeed, and bearing in mind their record in the lower leagues, I would love to have them here.
I have heard something similar, albeit from a better source.
Very brave of you to say. It would certainly be something of a coup if you are right. I guess they will be at Slough tomorrow if it is that cut and dried.
Very brave of you to say. It would certainly be something of a coup if you are right. I guess they will be at Slough tomorrow if it is that cut and dried.
I said to my Imps pal they'd have decent playing options here really in my eyes they an experienced keeper and a target man everything else is in gge building this is not a massive challenge.
I’m not convinced about the Cowleys and I’m struggling to understand why they’d be remotely interested in managing town, so I don’t believe it However, in the unlikely event it’s true it would be a coup from the owners and generate a lot of interest Whatever happens I hope it’s sorted before the league games restart
An Imps season ticket holder has messaged me and says we've got the Cowley brothers and they'll be announced next week?
Just checked with my mate who works part time for the Chimps and he’s been told this morning they are definitely not returning to Lincoln and Damian Duff definitely is being considered for their job so Frazer is pretty accurate with his info posted on here.
Re The Cowleys... I'm trying to get my round why we'd be a club they'd fancy a crack at, after all they've managed at a higher level for 6 years, so why the backward step?. I can only think they've been sold a proposition that works for all parties. They only have to commit untiil the end of the season, are offered healthy bonuses, plus giving them the opportunity to build their stock up should they take us from floundering towards relegation(let's be honest, that's how the table looks) to potentially play-offs or just outside. So really, there's no pressure, if we finish mid table, then fantastic, they can walk away or be offered the opportunity to settle in and take us on for longer? It also means that there is no need to uproot the family, for 6 months they could stay at the Oatlands, Laceby manner or the club rent them a house..
Re The Cowleys... I'm trying to get my round why we'd be a club they'd fancy a crack at, after all they've managed at a higher level for 6 years, so why the backward step?. I can only think they've been sold a proposition that works for all parties. They only have to commit untiil the end of the season, are offered healthy bonuses, plus giving them the opportunity to build their stock up should they take us from floundering towards relegation(let's be honest, that's how the table looks) to potentially play-offs or just outside. So really, there's no pressure, if we finish mid table, then fantastic, they can walk away or be offered the opportunity to settle in and take us on for longer? It also means that there is no need to uproot the family, for 6 months they could stay at the Oatlands, Laceby manner or the club rent them a house..
We don't know what's going on off the field in relation to 5 Yr plans so GTFC might be a far more attractive proposition than we even realise? No reason at all a new Manager shouldn't have aspirations of getting a Club Towns size challenging in this league. At least the Cowley’s don't spend most of the press conference talking up the opposition I was sick to death of that.
Re The Cowleys... I'm trying to get my round why we'd be a club they'd fancy a crack at, after all they've managed at a higher level for 6 years, so why the backward step?. I can only think they've been sold a proposition that works for all parties. They only have to commit untiil the end of the season, are offered healthy bonuses, plus giving them the opportunity to build their stock up should they take us from floundering towards relegation(let's be honest, that's how the table looks) to potentially play-offs or just outside. So really, there's no pressure, if we finish mid table, then fantastic, they can walk away or be offered the opportunity to settle in and take us on for longer? It also means that there is no need to uproot the family, for 6 months they could stay at the Oatlands, Laceby manner or the club rent them a house..
Because after years of neglect, we're a club looking to go places once more. On the pitch it hasn't quite gone to plan but we're a club that's spent most of it's time above L2. I've got a couple friends involved in coaching positions and i've had many a chats with them when they move jobs etc and a manager looks for 5 major things when it comes to deliberating for a job.
Potential - Is the club at it's maximum or do you feel like you could take it above and beyond? Is it a club that you can grow with? Playing Squad - Is that playing squad up to a sufficient standard if not, do you have the funds to bring in your own players and do you have license to do so? Infastructure - Is the infastructure within the club at a level that will allow you to perform to a standard and provide you with the tools to do your job? Ownership - Does the ownerships ambitions match yours? Are they good people? Job security? If you don't start well are you going to be axed or are you going to be given time to get your stamp on the club no matter what happens? Location - Is it commutable or is the package provided going to be suffiecent for you and your family?
I'd think we pretty much tick the first 4 boxes. Location maybe not so if they are based in Hampshire, but I can't wrap my head around the fact they live in Hampshire and had accepted the Bradford job. So they obviously believe there's options for them if they was to take a managerial job up North. Especially given the fact he himself stated the 3 clubs he's speaking to are all within 80 miles of each others.
Because after years of neglect, we're a club looking to go places once more. On the pitch it hasn't quite gone to plan but we're a club that's spent most of it's time above L2. I've got a couple friends involved in coaching positions and i've had many a chats with them when they move jobs etc and a manager looks for 5 major things when it comes to deliberating for a job.
Potential - Is the club at it's maximum or do you feel like you could take it above and beyond? Is it a club that you can grow with? Playing Squad - Is that playing squad up to a sufficient standard if not, do you have the funds to bring in your own players and do you have license to do so? Infastructure - Is the infastructure within the club at a level that will allow you to perform to a standard and provide you with the tools to do your job? Ownership - Does the ownerships ambitions match yours? Are they good people? Job security? If you don't start well are you going to be axed or are you going to be given time to get your stamp on the club no matter what happens? Location - Is it commutable or is the package provided going to be suffiecent for you and your family?
I'd think we pretty much tick the first 4 boxes. Location maybe not so if they are based in Hampshire, but I can't wrap my head around the fact they live in Hampshire and had accepted the Bradford job. So they obviously believe there's options for them if they was to take a managerial job up North. Especially given the fact he himself stated the 3 clubs he's speaking to are all within 80 miles of each others.
That was why the only reason I could come up as to why we may be a better for right now, it kinda takes the pressure off, they don't have to commit to moving here, so the family can stay down there, and they stay up here, could also plan to have Sunday n Mondays off, so only here Tuesday to Friday, travel up on a Saturday morning, back home in the evening... The board, I suspect, just want league 2 security this season now. Get that, then hopeful kick on from next season.
If we got the Cowley's, it'd be on long-term contracts, at least 3 years I'd think. That would be a risk at this level, but they're as close to a safe pair of hands we could have at this level.
Agree with this - he did a very good interview. Let's see. Not sure that we need an experienced manager at this level holds water - Lennie Lawrence & other old farts doing the rounds didn't set the place on fire. Sir Allan mark 1 & Laurie Mac with no experience at this level certainly did?
Aw got my facts wrong there - I blame a combination of advanced years & the demon drink. Thanks to those for pointing out that Sir Allan & Laurie Mac did have previous at this level.
I hope he isn't teasing you. Their appointment would be very exciting and could usher in a golden period for Grimsby Town.
I don't mean to offend Grimsby supporters when I say Bradford City is a much bigger club than yours. If Danny Cowley pulled out of the Valley Parade job to take yours it shows two things; how unattractive Bradford City is right now and how completely different and inviting Grimsby Town now appears than when Mr Fenty was at the top.
Here's hoping his message is true.
Calling bullshit on Cowley Look at the last school teacher we had here, that turned out great.
In his three stints as Grimsby Town manager spanning over 10 years the club was never relegated and he also guided them to three promotions. Only 14 managers have reached 1,000 matches in charge of a Football League team by 1998 and Buckley is one of them. GOD
I'm sure a lincoln fan said they were actually v. Happy living in Lincoln. You've also got take into account the fact that their stock is now lowered after 2 high profile 'failures'. This would be a good place to rebuild and get their names back in the frame for bigger n better jobs
The size of Bradford is appealing yes, but the expectation there is massive couple that with a mid table self funded budget in a division of big spenders. Owners that don’t really give a excrement and a CEO that the fans absolutely can’t stand. A poisoned chalice.
Just seen this on Twitter, or whatever its called now.
Doesn't look like Cowleys is happening according to the host.
Bloody kids ruin everything!
"Falls to Arnold... Arnold! That's it! Thats it! He's sealed it! Grimsby Town are back in the football league!!! Just a minute to go and Nathan Arnold makes it 3-1! Look at the scenes behind the goal! Look at the relief! The agony is finally over!!!"
John Tondeur - Wembley Stadium Sunday 15th May 2016
Possibly the difference with being offered and turning down the Bratfud job and potentially accepting the job here could be that at Bradford, he/they were offered terms just to be the Manager, with other staff, maybe even the owner or Directors wanting some sort of input in the day to day running, whereas here 1878 could have offered him/them full control over everything as they did with Hurst and Doig.
That would be a great offer to any Manager for them to run all the footballing side of things. Stick in a brucey bonus if we finish in the play offs (it is still possible) and it gives them even more impetus.
I’m not convinced about the Cowleys and I’m struggling to understand why they’d be remotely interested in managing town, so I don’t believe it However, in the unlikely event it’s true it would be a coup from the owners and generate a lot of interest Whatever happens I hope it’s sorted before the league games restart
I’ll have you know, they read the fishy and Stacey west forums along with the telegraph! They are 100% information based that has no way at all been made up by second guessing or made up from in the know posters
I wonder whether Tommy Widdrington will still be Aldershot manager by the time the 2nd round ties are played? It finished Swindon 4-7 Aldershot, but they were 7-0 up, which is incredible!
I thought his King's Lynn side were solid and difficult to beat when we played them in the National League, and then he had them playing some brilliant stuff last season. For me, he is the only former player worth considering.
I wonder whether Tommy Widdrington will still be Aldershot manager by the time the 2nd round ties are played? It finished Swindon 4-7 Aldershot, but they were 7-0 up, which is incredible!
I thought his King's Lynn side were solid and difficult to beat when we played them in the National League, and then he had them playing some brilliant stuff last season. For me, he is the only former player worth considering.
Speculative??? He talked to the feckin bloke 6 hours ago 🤣🤣🤣🤣
He’s hardly gonna tell the press, for example, that he didn’t want to go there as it’s a basket case club with an unpopular trigger happy owner, is he?
If you go to the trouble of speaking to a club to the point where you’re offered a job, it means you’re at least open to the idea of exploring different options. That’s the nature of football management.
Watching his interview above, he places a heavy emphasis on working for a club with the right type of people in charge, so your pool is already limited in that regard. Now he may not end up here at all, but if you’re waiting for a club in commuting distance of Chelsea’s youth academy where his kid plays, he might be waiting to the point where he ends up being out of the game for too long.
Sounded largely speculative. I wouldn’t take much notice to be honest.
Yeah not sure. Why would you get so far down the road with Bradford and pull out because of that? Not saying it isn’t a legitimate reason but you’d surely have squared that circle before agreeing terms? Also widely speculated is on the list at Lincoln - although that now looks unlikely.
If his daughter is doing GCSEs this school year it’s not a huge amount of time to find a way to not take her out of school but work up north. Again, it’s a legitimate reason but I’m not convinced with him getting so far with Bradford..
Not sure why the guy in charge of the dog and duck in gibraltar is so high in the betting with the bookies .Perhaps because at league 2 level a swift £50 on any candidate can put them high in the odds
The size of Bradford is appealing yes, but the expectation there is massive couple that with a mid table self funded budget in a division of big spenders. Owners that don’t really give a excrement and a CEO that the fans absolutely can’t stand. A poisoned chalice.
Agree with this and they are the prime example why being a 'big club' with big crowds means diddly squat nowadays .
Yeah not sure. Why would you get so far down the road with Bradford and pull out because of that? Not saying it isn’t a legitimate reason but you’d surely have squared that circle before agreeing terms? Also widely speculated is on the list at Lincoln - although that now looks unlikely.
If his daughter is doing GCSEs this school year it’s not a huge amount of time to find a way to not take her out of school but work up north. Again, it’s a legitimate reason but I’m not convinced with him getting so far with Bradford..
Exactly this. He was prepared to move to Bradford after negotiating with them up until the start of this week, it’s not to do with not wanting to move north.
It gives you more money to invest in the squad though, which likely equals quite a few points.
It doesn't give you more than somebody investing substantial funds into the team though does it - Bradford will have a considerably smaller budget than Salford for example and we probably have a smaller budget than the mighty Forest Green .
I'm interested to see whether this shiny new TV deal makes gates even more irrelevant .
Anyone on hear the pre match interview with your chairman that chaos33 refers to on the match thread? And what his comments on your next manager were? Thanks
Anyone on hear the pre match interview with your chairman that chaos33 refers to on the match thread? And what his comments on your next manager were? Thanks
We need a new manager with the utmost urgency to bring in some new ideas and be allowed to spend big in the next window or else we are gone. At the moment the majority of players are utter garbage. I cannot see one player that deserves a 3 year contract.. Let;s make sure we get a guddun this time.
8 days and 76 pages in and I don’t think one person is any the wiser.
You’d imagine interviews haven’t even started yet and I’ve a feeling it’ll be a name nobody has even mentioned yet.
Well after watching that garbage I think whoever comes in will have to be a bit of a miracle worker to get some decent performances out of this shower.
From the chairman’s interview I have a couple of questions, if we wait a “ few weeks” I’m afraid it will be too late, as things are the decision needs to be made quickly and get the Cowleys in, also on the new manager he said it will be someone who uses the youth set up,who will play a pressing game, so why did he tell Hurst that’s what he wanted instead of the defensive rubbish we’ve had.
Well that's Shaun and Ben out of the manager's equation.
Yeah it should be tbh. I remember when woods managed us to defeat against Bath City in the cup and I thought the only silver lining would be that at least woods was out the running to be manager. Turned out I was wrong and Fenty really was that stupid and tight. I don't think Stockwood will be making the same mistake.
I think, if we could have seen method, then that would’ve been encouraging for us, and them. Method, ethos, passion, drive….something new. All sadly lacking for me.
Well after watching that garbage I think whoever comes in will have to be a bit of a MIRACLE WORKER to get some decent performances out of this shower.
Well after watching that garbage I think whoever comes in will have to be a bit of a miracle worker to get some decent performances out of this shower.
Anyone on hear the pre match interview with your chairman that chaos33 refers to on the match thread? And what his comments on your next manager were? Thanks
Well having listened to the first five minutes of his interview I think it's safe to assume (or guess Mr Frazer) that the two people who posted on here yesterday that the Cowleys would be announced as the new management team at Grimsby Town on Monday were mistaken.
Reading your forum there seem to be very few who wouldn't welcome the return of the brothers to Sincil Bank.
I found Stockwood’s interview very concerning for a number of reasons.
Firstly, the timescale of bringing in a new manager, we can’t afford to wait another month, which will most likely involve us dropping into the relegation zone. This isn’t fecking Apple or Facebook we’re not recruiting a finance or a comms manager.
Let’s park all the bollox about an endless bureaucratic style recruitment led by the CEO sifting through applications, it’s all far too corporate and wastes valuable time which can’t afford in a league that is determined by fine margins.
They said they’ve been planning this for six weeks, so where’s the evidence of this? We should be identifying our top managerial targets and approaching them proactively ourselves as a pitch. Do we think for example, that the best possible managers will be tidying up their CVs to send to Grimsby Town?
My final gripe is that Stockwood got caught up talking about football, “playing the Grimsby way”, “high pressing and playing out from the back”. It’s not for him to determine our playing style, especially with this group of players, who I’m certainly not convinced are capable of it. It’s for the coach to decide how to approach the footballing side, we’re not Dorking Wanderers.
I don’t like being critical of the owners at all, and I’m very grateful for what they’ve done and are looking to do. The lack of urgency is a huge concern, and we need to get our heads out of the sand. We’re in a relegation fight, and this is going to need decisiveness and it’s not going to be pretty.
I think, if we could have seen method, then that would’ve been encouraging for us, and them. Method, ethos, passion, drive….something new. All sadly lacking for me.
I found Stockwood’s interview very concerning for a number of reasons.
Firstly, the timescale of bringing in a new manager, we can’t afford to wait another month, which will most likely involve us dropping into the relegation zone. This isn’t fecking Apple or Facebook we’re not recruiting a finance or a comms manager.
Let’s park all the bollox about an endless bureaucratic style recruitment led by the CEO sifting through applications, it’s all far too corporate and wastes valuable time which can’t afford in a league that is determined by fine margins.
They said they’ve been planning this for six weeks, so where’s the evidence of this? We should be identifying our top managerial targets and approaching them proactively ourselves as a pitch. Do we think for example, that the best possible managers will be tidying up their CVs to send to Grimsby Town?
My final gripe is that Stockwood got caught up talking about football, “playing the Grimsby way”, “high pressing and playing out from the back”. It’s not for him to determine our playing style, especially with this group of players, who I’m certainly not convinced are capable of it. It’s for the coach to decide how to approach the footballing side, we’re not Dorking Wanderers.
I don’t like being critical of the owners at all, and I’m very grateful for what they’ve done and are looking to do. The lack of urgency is a huge concern, and we need to get our heads out of the sand. We’re in a relegation fight, and this is going to need decisiveness and it’s not going to be pretty.
Broadly agree. I would say though - these things were said before witnessing that non performance. I would hope that that spectacle has injected a greater sense of urgency and perception of reality, and that this should mean we want to expedite this process. You can’t play like we played today and expect to acquire points. We don’t want to be losing the next 2/3 games and pretending we’ve all the time in the world. I think it’s fairly self evident that it would be helpful to have a new manager installed by the time we play FGR. Lose to Morecambe at home next Saturday, and the place will be absolutely stunk out. We do need to be diligent, and I trust the owners to not rush/botch this, but time is of the essence now.
I found Stockwood’s interview very concerning for a number of reasons.
Firstly, the timescale of bringing in a new manager, we can’t afford to wait another month, which will most likely involve us dropping into the relegation zone. This isn’t fecking Apple or Facebook we’re not recruiting a finance or a comms manager.
Let’s park all the bollox about an endless bureaucratic style recruitment led by the CEO sifting through applications, it’s all far too corporate and wastes valuable time which can’t afford in a league that is determined by fine margins.
They said they’ve been planning this for six weeks, so where’s the evidence of this? We should be identifying our top managerial targets and approaching them proactively ourselves as a pitch. Do we think for example, that the best possible managers will be tidying up their CVs to send to Grimsby Town?
My final gripe is that Stockwood got caught up talking about football, “playing the Grimsby way”, “high pressing and playing out from the back”. It’s not for him to determine our playing style, especially with this group of players, who I’m certainly not convinced are capable of it. It’s for the coach to decide how to approach the footballing side, we’re not Dorking Wanderers.
I don’t like being critical of the owners at all, and I’m very grateful for what they’ve done and are looking to do. The lack of urgency is a huge concern, and we need to get our heads out of the sand. We’re in a relegation fight, and this is going to need decisiveness and it’s not going to be pretty.
Or we could just recruit a Newell or a Slade or a Jolley or even a Holloway!
Broadly agree. I would say though - these things were said before witnessing that non performance. I would hope that that spectacle has injected a greater sense of urgency and perception of reality, and that this should mean we want to expedite this process. You can’t play like we played today and expect to acquire points. We don’t want to be losing the next 2/3 games and pretending we’ve all the time in the world. I think it’s fairly self evident that it would be helpful to have a new manager installed by the time we play FGR. Lose to Morecambe at home next Saturday, and the place will be absolutely stunk out. We do need to be diligent, and I trust the owners to not rush/botch this, but time is of the essence now.
Our decline is astonishing. How did we get this bad?!
Broadly agree. I would say though - these things were said before witnessing that non performance. I would hope that that spectacle has injected a greater sense of urgency and perception of reality, and that this should mean we want to expedite this process. You can’t play like we played today and expect to acquire points. We don’t want to be losing the next 2/3 games and pretending we’ve all the time in the world. I think it’s fairly self evident that it would be helpful to have a new manager installed by the time we play FGR. Lose to Morecambe at home next Saturday, and the place will be absolutely stunk out. We do need to be diligent, and I trust the owners to not rush/botch this, but time is of the essence now.
There is a good chance of that. They have taken 20 points from their last 10 games and won at Lincoln in the cup yesterday.
There is a good chance of that. They have taken 20 points from their last 10 games and won at Lincoln in the cup yesterday.
Couldn't have asked for a much tougher game.
The ironic thing is that we see Morecambe as non-league cannon fodder, yet they see us as an easy 3 points. And they’re probably right.
To say I’m worried about the current situation is an understatement, and Hurst, who I was a big fan of, must be the reason. My god, we need a good manager to come in or the next 6 months could be awful.
I still think we can stay up, but I wonder if that’s blind faith.
I found Stockwood’s interview very concerning for a number of reasons.
Firstly, the timescale of bringing in a new manager, we can’t afford to wait another month, which will most likely involve us dropping into the relegation zone. This isn’t fecking Apple or Facebook we’re not recruiting a finance or a comms manager.
Let’s park all the bollox about an endless bureaucratic style recruitment led by the CEO sifting through applications, it’s all far too corporate and wastes valuable time which can’t afford in a league that is determined by fine margins.
They said they’ve been planning this for six weeks, so where’s the evidence of this? We should be identifying our top managerial targets and approaching them proactively ourselves as a pitch. Do we think for example, that the best possible managers will be tidying up their CVs to send to Grimsby Town?
My final gripe is that Stockwood got caught up talking about football, “playing the Grimsby way”, “high pressing and playing out from the back”. It’s not for him to determine our playing style, especially with this group of players, who I’m certainly not convinced are capable of it. It’s for the coach to decide how to approach the footballing side, we’re not Dorking Wanderers.
I don’t like being critical of the owners at all, and I’m very grateful for what they’ve done and are looking to do. The lack of urgency is a huge concern, and we need to get our heads out of the sand. We’re in a relegation fight, and this is going to need decisiveness and it’s not going to be pretty.
Kind of agree, they’ve been planning “what if’s” for a few weeks so I’d expect a bit more pace this week.
I was more concerned about Jason’s comments about looking for a manager to play in a certain way which is odd that he’s said on several occasions “we’re not football people” (paraphrase) maybe they edit and see what the applicants tell them is possible with the current group & how they’d intend to stop us getting relegated again.
Just recruit a manager who knows how to win at this level if we can as that’s the immediate pressing need.
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
Sums up the FA Cup though doesn't it. Craig Valley Paper Mills sounds like a Sunday league team, but drew at a club 5 divisions higher in League 1.
Puts our result into perspective a bit.
I’m afraid that I don’t take much solace from the ‘our result wasn’t as excrement as someone else’s’ argument. Frankly, it was another inadequate display from a group that look like they just met in the car park.
It just ramps up the dismal statistics to 3 wins in 21.
Kind of agree, they’ve been planning “what if’s” for a few weeks so I’d expect a bit more pace this week.
I was more concerned about Jason’s comments about looking for a manager to play in a certain way which is odd that he’s said on several occasions “we’re not football people” (paraphrase) maybe they edit and see what the applicants tell them is possible with the current group & how they’d intend to stop us getting relegated again.
Just recruit a manager who knows how to win at this level if we can as that’s the immediate pressing need.
Why does he always sound like he has invented the recruitment process? He had nothing new to say, so not sure why he bothered. We need to get somebody with the right footballing credentials in this week. You can take a month or more if you want but it doesn't mean to say you will appoint the right man.
From the applications received (and targets identified if they haven't applied) it should be straightforward to whittle it down to a couple of possibles.
And try not to be too worried about "values that align" this is a football manager we want who wins football matches.
I’m afraid that I don’t take much solace from the ‘our result wasn’t as excrement as someone else’s’ argument. Frankly, it was another inadequate display from a group that look like they just met in the car park.
It just ramps up the dismal statistics to 3 wins in 21.
I think the first half clouded everyone's view of the second half, which we mainly controlled, without looking very fluent. We didn't lose, but plenty of other teams did that shouldn't have, if you take league positions into account.
We negotiated a banana skin, and I was actually quite pleased with how we came out and performed in the second 45 mins.Thought it would be more of the same, but the changes did the trick.
I'm trying to look at the positives, but if you want to remain perpetually p1ssed off, then crack on. It's only just over a week since the manager was sacked, and we weren't going to turn into a winning machine in 8 days with all that's gone before.
I think the first half clouded everyone's view of the second half, which we mainly controlled, without looking very fluent. We didn't lose, but plenty of other teams did that shouldn't have, if you take league positions into account.
We negotiated a banana skin, and I was actually quite pleased with how we came out and performed in the second 45 mins.Thought it would be more of the same, but the changes did the trick.
I'm trying to look at the positives, but if you want to remain perpetually p1ssed off, then crack on. It's only just over a week since the manager was sacked, and we weren't going to turn into a winning machine in 8 days with all that's gone before.
I’m just a little concerned that we’ve only won three games this season and it’s now November. Today I learned that we’re not rushing to appoint a new manager (fair enough, get it right) and that was followed by a first half performance that was amongst the worst we’ve seen all season (and that’s a pretty low bar).
Sorry if I haven’t taken my happy pills but I’ve watched too much non league football in the last decade and I’d rather not watch any more.
I’m just a little concerned that we’ve only won three games this season and it’s now November. Today I learned that we’re not rushing to appoint a new manager (fair enough, get it right) and that was followed by a first half performance that was amongst the worst we’ve seen all season (and that’s a pretty low bar).
Sorry if I haven’t taken my happy pills but I’ve watched too much non league football in the last decade and I’d rather not watch any more.
Yeah, I get it, I'm concerned too, and I don't want to see any more non league football either. We can't do anything but support the team can we?
Must admit that the thoughts of JS did perplex me somewhat today. He's talking about the long term future of the club and a playing philosophy, with no mention of the fact it's the here and now that needs swift attention before we get marooned at the bottom of the league
Yeah, I get it, I'm concerned too, and I don't want to see any more non league football either. We can't do anything but support the team can we?
Must admit that the thoughts of JS did perplex me somewhat today. He's talking about the long term future of the club and a playing philosophy, with no mention of the fact it's the here and now that needs swift attention before we get marooned at the bottom of the league
I posted earlier that it was the most worrying interview I’ve heard from the chairman. He seems to be following a recruitment process that is typical in a commercial business. I think we’ve all learned by now that football isn’t a typical commercial business.
I posted earlier that it was the most worrying interview I’ve heard from the chairman. He seems to be following a recruitment process that is typical in a commercial business. I think we’ve all learned by now that football isn’t a typical commercial business.
Well, at least we have more than a fish merchant, two solicitors and third rate horse trainer making the decisions this time. There are actually some people with football knowledge involved in the process, and I think some of what Jason said was misinterpreted slightly. The candidates are being sifted through by others, but the final decision will be down to J&A.
The slight worry for me was the seeming lack of urgency given our current position, but all we can do is hope they know exactly what they are doing.
Well, at least we have more than a fish merchant, two solicitors and third rate horse trainer making the decisions this time. There are actually some people with football knowledge involved in the process, and I think some of what Jason said was misinterpreted slightly. The candidates are being sifted through by others, but the final decision will be down to J&A.
The slight worry for me was the seeming lack of urgency given our current position, but all we can do is hope they know exactly what they are doing.
I’d like to think you’re right, no, I hope to God you’re right. The owners must know how much another relegation would cost.
Well, at least we have more than a fish merchant, two solicitors and third rate horse trainer making the decisions this time. There are actually some people with football knowledge involved in the process, and I think some of what Jason said was misinterpreted slightly. The candidates are being sifted through by others, but the final decision will be down to J&A.
The slight worry for me was the seeming lack of urgency given our current position, but all we can do is hope they know exactly what they are doing.
Whoever is in charge , the next 4 league games are massive
I would suggest 6 points is a minimum requirement .
Or we are in big ,big trouble -- Xmas will come and go but we then have a tough ride in with teams that in the main will be up there and it won't be easy .
Morecambe is big Saturday and we need 3 points badly,really badly or I fear people may well start to turn on the team and board.
The last few weeks have reminded me of previous recent relegations in terms of the characteristics of this team ,that's what worries me more than the defeats or drawing with Slough tbh .
I didn’t see the game today as I’m on holiday, but I’ve thought since hurst got the bullet there are some big tasks ahead for the new man:
1) Get Hunt in the team and dictating play 2) Find out why Conteh is now so poor 3) Get Glennon’s confidence back, whether playing in defence or elsewhere 4) Getting Wilson playing as a central striker 5) Finding out if Eisa can play in a system that allows Wilson to get into the team.
This is just a snapshot of our issues, and I’ve not even touched on the defensive side really, and I don’t have the answers, but if the new man doesn’t either, we’re going down.
I didn’t see the game today as I’m on holiday, but I’ve thought since hurst got the bullet there are some big tasks ahead for the new man:
1) Get Hunt in the team and dictating play 2) Find out why Conteh is now so poor 3) Get Glennon’s confidence back, whether playing in defence or elsewhere 4) Getting Wilson playing as a central striker 5) Finding out if Eisa can play in a system that allows Wilson to get into the team.
This is just a snapshot of our issues, and I’ve not even touched on the defensive side really, and I don’t have the answers, but if the new man doesn’t either, we’re going down.
I think the last few weeks have shown that, for all his individual brilliance, Eisa isn’t really a team player. He had a shocker at Bradford against his old club and hasn’t had a decent game since.
I think the last few weeks have shown that, for all his individual brilliance, Eisa isn’t really a team player. He had a shocker at Bradford against his old club and hasn’t had a decent game since.
I didn’t see the game today as I’m on holiday, but I’ve thought since hurst got the bullet there are some big tasks ahead for the new man:
1) Get Hunt in the team and dictating play 2) Find out why Conteh is now so poor 3) Get Glennon’s confidence back, whether playing in defence or elsewhere 4) Getting Wilson playing as a central striker 5) Finding out if Eisa can play in a system that allows Wilson to get into the team.
This is just a snapshot of our issues, and I’ve not even touched on the defensive side really, and I don’t have the answers, but if the new man doesn’t either, we’re going down.
Conteh Hasn't turned poor, i think he's turned more 'cautious' about who he passes to recently Khan over Eisa every day for me. Yes, Eisa has a worldie in his locker, but i actually rate Khan very highly
The lack of reaction to the Hurst departure put me from that mindset of 'the players just need a bounce' to 'intercourse, maybe they're that bad!...'. I still don't think they're that bad and are more badly in need to a huge confidence boost, but if you go to a struggling tier six side and play within yourself, then the size of that needed confidence boost just increased tenfold.
But it was Stockwood's interview that really left me worried. I don't expect him to be frothing at the mouth and I do try to take what he says with a pinch of salt, but there's definitely a lack of urgency at the minute. I'm not convinced they realise just how bad it is at the minute, call it blind faith if you like but I didn't see anything to suggest we can play our way out of this.
First 20 minutes we knocked it about nicely enough but didn't go anywhere with it. As soon as they had a slight go at us we absolutely bottled it. This wasn't a case that they came at us, hit us hard and then hung on for dear life. They largely outplayed us and should have had the game out of sight before we equalised.
Have to agree with those who were a bit confused with Stockwood talking about the style and approach. That's for the coach to decide. I'm all for exactly what he's talking about. But when the owner is saying he wants a coach to come in and play high press it makes me think he's maybe over stepping the mark a bit. Also makes me think that the change in style, or at least the attempt to do so, towards that high press and playing out from the back wasn't really Hurst's idea at all. Hence why he didn't really know how to do it and quickly reverted back to his tried and tested, albeit with players who don't know how to play in a Hurst style.
The lack of reaction to the Hurst departure put me from that mindset of 'the players just need a bounce' to 'intercourse, maybe they're that bad!...'. I still don't think they're that bad and are more badly in need to a huge confidence boost, but if you go to a struggling tier six side and play within yourself, then the size of that needed confidence boost just increased tenfold.
But it was Stockwood's interview that really left me worried. I don't expect him to be frothing at the mouth and I do try to take what he says with a pinch of salt, but there's definitely a lack of urgency at the minute. I'm not convinced they realise just how bad it is at the minute, call it blind faith if you like but I didn't see anything to suggest we can play our way out of this.
First 20 minutes we knocked it about nicely enough but didn't go anywhere with it. As soon as they had a slight go at us we absolutely bottled it. This wasn't a case that they came at us, hit us hard and then hung on for dear life. They largely outplayed us and should have had the game out of sight before we equalised.
Have to agree with those who were a bit confused with Stockwood talking about the style and approach. That's for the coach to decide. I'm all for exactly what he's talking about. But when the owner is saying he wants a coach to come in and play high press it makes me think he's maybe over stepping the mark a bit. Also makes me think that the change in style, or at least the attempt to do so, towards that high press and playing out from the back wasn't really Hurst's idea at all. Hence why he didn't really know how to do it and quickly reverted back to his tried and tested, albeit with players who don't know how to play in a Hurst style.
Its a bit of a worry going from "we will leave the football side to football people..." to trying to shape the way the team plays. I think he wants a certain style to be associated with the club from here on in, often citing the "Grimsby way" which is a nice ambition but one that can probably wait until many more things fall into place.
I think we would all like winning football so my advice would be to go with that in mind first and foremost; there are a lot of managers who want the job but it is entirely up to them how they approach the bottom end of League 2. If we are winning we will be entertained!
He is obviously a very collaborative collegiate chap who likes to include a lot of people in the decision making, but I felt a bit uneasy so many people seem to be involved in getting a new manager. I think he might be better advised to speed the process up a bit.
The lack of reaction to the Hurst departure put me from that mindset of 'the players just need a bounce' to 'intercourse, maybe they're that bad!...'. I still don't think they're that bad and are more badly in need to a huge confidence boost, but if you go to a struggling tier six side and play within yourself, then the size of that needed confidence boost just increased tenfold.
But it was Stockwood's interview that really left me worried. I don't expect him to be frothing at the mouth and I do try to take what he says with a pinch of salt, but there's definitely a lack of urgency at the minute. I'm not convinced they realise just how bad it is at the minute, call it blind faith if you like but I didn't see anything to suggest we can play our way out of this.
First 20 minutes we knocked it about nicely enough but didn't go anywhere with it. As soon as they had a slight go at us we absolutely bottled it. This wasn't a case that they came at us, hit us hard and then hung on for dear life. They largely outplayed us and should have had the game out of sight before we equalised.
Have to agree with those who were a bit confused with Stockwood talking about the style and approach. That's for the coach to decide. I'm all for exactly what he's talking about. But when the owner is saying he wants a coach to come in and play high press it makes me think he's maybe over stepping the mark a bit. Also makes me think that the change in style, or at least the attempt to do so, towards that high press and playing out from the back wasn't really Hurst's idea at all. Hence why he didn't really know how to do it and quickly reverted back to his tried and tested, albeit with players who don't know how to play in a Hurst style.
I'm becoming increasingly angry at how the FA Cup money, which should have been a catalyst for us to kick on, appears to have been wasted. The interview with Stockwood yesterday has annoyed me too. The interview last week was decent and set things straight regarding the Head Coach role, whilst also stating that the process would take 3-4 weeks so there was absolutely no need for that interview a few days into a 3-4 week process and some of the concerning things that he said.
We are currently in a situation that requires short-term thinking because we can't sleepwalk into another relegation.
The lack of reaction to the Hurst departure put me from that mindset of 'the players just need a bounce' to 'intercourse, maybe they're that bad!...'. I still don't think they're that bad and are more badly in need to a huge confidence boost, but if you go to a struggling tier six side and play within yourself, then the size of that needed confidence boost just increased tenfold.
But it was Stockwood's interview that really left me worried. I don't expect him to be frothing at the mouth and I do try to take what he says with a pinch of salt, but there's definitely a lack of urgency at the minute. I'm not convinced they realise just how bad it is at the minute, call it blind faith if you like but I didn't see anything to suggest we can play our way out of this.
First 20 minutes we knocked it about nicely enough but didn't go anywhere with it. As soon as they had a slight go at us we absolutely bottled it. This wasn't a case that they came at us, hit us hard and then hung on for dear life. They largely outplayed us and should have had the game out of sight before we equalised.
Have to agree with those who were a bit confused with Stockwood talking about the style and approach. That's for the coach to decide. I'm all for exactly what he's talking about. But when the owner is saying he wants a coach to come in and play high press it makes me think he's maybe over stepping the mark a bit. Also makes me think that the change in style, or at least the attempt to do so, towards that high press and playing out from the back wasn't really Hurst's idea at all. Hence why he didn't really know how to do it and quickly reverted back to his tried and tested, albeit with players who don't know how to play in a Hurst style.
I kind of agree with what Jason was getting at TBH. I think we do lack a playing style, there's no defining characteristic of the team at all ATM and I think that's a key part of creating not just a squad for the future, but the whole footballing setup at the club. There should almost be a handbook for all the coaches from youngsters right up to first team so younger players will find it easier to progress because they've learned to play a particular way. It's another thing they've been doing at Brentford since they were in the lower leagues and also (obviously) at Brighton and, it goes without saying, Man City. It doesn't make any sense to me that each coach is left to their own devices, without there being an overarching philosophy of how we set up as a club.
Yes, I completely agree we need and should progress to have an identity - one that spans the whole of the club.
To my eyes a football club's identify is defined in its overarching culture, something I want Stockwood and co. to lead on. Then on the footballing side of things, one I want someone with footballing insight to lead on. Not Stockwood. I also agree with you about it not having just one coach/manager able to go against the grain. It all has to link in. No point having a certain system played up to youth level and then the first team play something completely at odds with it. Equally so a recruitment cycle geared towards a certain style of play, then the manager wanting to play a completely different way...
Very, very happy to be corrected but I don't believe that Matthew Benham at Brentford or Tony Bloom at Brighton set the expectation of what the footballing style is at their respective clubs. I suspect it's maybe got mis-communicated in the interview and has come across a bit like Stockwood is getting involved in stuff he doesn't need to be. He mentioned the heavy involvement of Jennings in the process and I wouldn't be surprised if he's more of the one leading on the style approach, Stockwood just re-iterating that message. But I want our prospective managers to be coming in and pitching their approach and the club seeing if it aligns with what their approach is. I don't really want any prospective managers coming to the club and be told 'you have to play this way'.
Agree with that, if we’re shortlisting on the basis of style of play as suggested - prioritising those who play out from the back and have loads of possession - then you’re really narrowing the pool of managers to choose from. Would imagine you’re going to end up with a shortlist of younger coaches who have been at big teams, if that’s what you want.
I like the fact that Stockwood seems happy to take on the stress and isn’t afraid to make big decisions, but it’s very different being brave in a boardroom setting out criteria to watching us try & play triangles on our 6-yard line in mid-feb on a ploughed field.
The man has a very romantic view of the club, the town, the football - fair play to him, it’s a view not everyone shares and if he’s willing to dig deep into his pockets to achieve it then hats off. Worrying times for those of us which are or a more nervous disposition though.
Can we just nip this whole “Stockwood is trying to control our style of play” thing in the bud?
Notwithstanding the fact that we’ve had people moaning about Hurst’s “boring” brand of football throughout his whole tenure, JS is speaking in very general terms. He wants us to have an entertaining, attacking team that is good to watch – who doesn’t want that? He and Pettit will hire a coach they think can deliver that, but they’re not going to be suggesting formations or selecting the team. In fact, he explicitly stated that the new hire will have space to implement their own identity/brand of football.
People are using JS’s wish to see us play aggressively with an attacking mindset as a stick to beat him with, which I find very odd.
Can we just nip this whole “Stockwood is trying to control our style of play” thing in the bud?
Notwithstanding the fact that we’ve had people moaning about Hurst’s “boring” brand of football throughout his whole tenure, JS is speaking in very general terms. He wants us to have an entertaining, attacking team that is good to watch – who doesn’t want that? He and Pettit will hire a coach they think can deliver that, but they’re not going to be suggesting formations or selecting the team. In fact, he explicitly stated that the new hire will have space to implement their own identity/brand of football.
People are using JS’s wish to see us play aggressively with an attacking mindset as a stick to beat him with, which I find very odd.
Finally some sense.
People have been moaning for months/years on here about "boring" Hurstball. Stockwood comes out and essentially says the next manager has to play an entertaining style of football and everyone assumes he's suddenly putting himself forward for the head coach role. He isn't. He's just agreeing with all of you.
As such he will naturally filter out any managers who say that want to play a cautious, defensive style. Isn't that what you want?
Honestly. Calm down a bit. I'm glad none of you are in charge. A right bunch of wet ninnies.
Agree with that, if we’re shortlisting on the basis of style of play as suggested - prioritising those who play out from the back and have loads of possession - then you’re really narrowing the pool of managers to choose from. Would imagine you’re going to end up with a shortlist of younger coaches who have been at big teams, if that’s what you want.
I like the fact that Stockwood seems happy to take on the stress and isn’t afraid to make big decisions, but it’s very different being brave in a boardroom setting out criteria to watching us try & play triangles on our 6-yard line in mid-feb on a ploughed field.
The man has a very romantic view of the club, the town, the football - fair play to him, it’s a view not everyone shares and if he’s willing to dig deep into his pockets to achieve it then hats off. Worrying times for those of us which are or a more nervous disposition though.
It was very obvious in the first 20 minutes yesterday the team were playing the ball out from the back. A couple of times Cartwright nearly got into difficulty. This approach needs good footballers. I’m not sure we have got them.
Interestingly Mark Hughes tried this at Bradford. The players could not cope and they went back to a more familiar approach which the players understood
Shouldn't we be aiming higher than these journeyman managers?
If most people agree that the squad generally just needs a bit of a kick upe the ar$e and direction, that's not going to be someone who's just been sacked from his tenth job in as many years.
Perhaps paying a DECENT manager a bit more will be long term gain. We need to aim high. They can only say No.
Eustace was sacked by Birmingham because he wasn't a big enough name. He admitted he stalled on applying for the Bristol City job. Ask him! Stephen Robinson at St Mirren is someone who has worked wonders with a very tight budget. 3rd in the SPL. Ask him.
People have been moaning for months/years on here about "boring" Hurstball. Stockwood comes out and essentially says the next manager has to play an entertaining style of football and everyone assumes he's suddenly putting himself forward for the head coach role. He isn't. He's just agreeing with all of you.
As such he will naturally filter out any managers who say that want to play a cautious, defensive style. Isn't that what you want?
Honestly. Calm down a bit. I'm glad none of you are in charge. A right bunch of wet ninnies.
Can we just nip this whole “Stockwood is trying to control our style of play” thing in the bud?
Notwithstanding the fact that we’ve had people moaning about Hurst’s “boring” brand of football throughout his whole tenure, JS is speaking in very general terms. He wants us to have an entertaining, attacking team that is good to watch – who doesn’t want that? He and Pettit will hire a coach they think can deliver that, but they’re not going to be suggesting formations or selecting the team. In fact, he explicitly stated that the new hire will have space to implement their own identity/brand of football.
People are using JS’s wish to see us play aggressively with an attacking mindset as a stick to beat him with, which I find very odd.
People complained about abysmal football under Hurst They complained that results were bad (they were). They complained the board were doing nothing. They speculated who could replace Hurst but that whoever it was, would need to instil an attractive style of play and identity in to players who seemingly don’t care. The board sack Hurst (wise move). They say we need to make the right choice. Then they say it’s not happening quick enough after a little more than one week and one game. Now the Chairman talks up playing good attractive football with a clear identity and they are bellyaching again. Stick to what you know seems to be the approach but when he does that they moan about values, B Corp, scotch eggs, glass panels, the guardian, blah blah blah! It’s almost as if whatever JS does he cannot win and that people will always choose (and it is a choice) to moan about anything and everything. Stop panicking, relax a little and give your hearts a break! I’m sure JS and Co know what they are doing and are carrying out due diligence which doesn’t happen overnight.
“I know writers who use subtext and they’re all cowards.” –Garth Marenghi
People complained about abysmal football under Hurst They complained that results were bad (they were). They complained the board were doing nothing. They speculated who could replace Hurst but that whoever it was, would need to instil an attractive style of play and identity in to players who seemingly don’t care. The board sack Hurst (wise move). They say we need to make the right choice. Then they say it’s not happening quick enough after a little more than one week and one game. Now the Chairman talks up playing good attractive football with a clear identity and they are bellyaching again. Stick to what you know seems to be the approach but when he does that they moan about values, B Corp, scotch eggs, glass panels, the guardian, blah blah blah! It’s almost as if whatever JS does he cannot win and that people will always choose (and it is a choice) to moan about anything and everything. Stop panicking, relax a little and give your hearts a break! I’m sure JS and Co know what they are doing and are carrying out due diligence which doesn’t happen overnight.
I don't think anyone has said that though, have they?
Equally so I don't think anyone is beating anyone with a stick. It's concerns regards the recruitment process based on some odd comments made, with a caveat that it might just be mis-communication.
Regardless of what was said and what Stockwood's thoughts are, or indeed what he intends to do with them....there's a disconnect at the club and has been for the last few months. The recruitment didn't align with the managers approach and the managers approach didn't align with what the owners want (that's not a criticism of either, but it's painfully obvious). You can probably add in there complete misalignment with what the fans want in terms of approach and success/expectations.
This appointment is crucial. There has to be alignment (whichever approach and philosophy we take) otherwise we're circling that plughole to the non-league again.
I'm genuinely torn at this moment in time of thinking we've got enough time to really be detailed and think long-term and worrying that if we take too long and it takes a long time to change approach mid-season....
What are we, 7 weeks behind the point in the season when Hurst came in in 2020? Changing tact mid-season is hard, really hard.
I don't think anyone has said that though, have they?
Equally so I don't think anyone is beating anyone with a stick. It's concerns regards the recruitment process based on some odd comments made, with a caveat that it might just be mis-communication.
Regardless of what was said and what Stockwood's thoughts are, or indeed what he intends to do with them....there's a disconnect at the club and has been for the last few months. The recruitment didn't align with the managers approach and the managers approach didn't align with what the owners want (that's not a criticism of either, but it's painfully obvious). You can probably add in there complete misalignment with what the fans want in terms of approach and success/expectations.
This appointment is crucial. There has to be alignment (whichever approach and philosophy we take) otherwise we're circling that plughole to the non-league again.
I'm genuinely torn at this moment in time of thinking we've got enough time to really be detailed and think long-term and worrying that if we take too long and it takes a long time to change approach mid-season....
What are we, 7 weeks behind the point in the season when Hurst came in in 2020? Changing tact mid-season is hard, really hard.
Granted I may be using too broad a stroke when I’m saying ‘They’ and I’m probably over generalising slightly but, people have said what I outlined there, over this and multiple other threads on this forum. Of course people can and should have legitimate concerns (I’m no different) ask questions, debate etc… but a dose of realism and perspective is required. I want the best for Town and I would like a good manager in as soon as possible. However, firstly I fully trust that the people in charge of making that happen want that and secondly I believe they’ll achieve it.
“I know writers who use subtext and they’re all cowards.” –Garth Marenghi
Shouldn't we be aiming higher than these journeyman managers?
If most people agree that the squad generally just needs a bit of a kick upe the ar$e and direction, that's not going to be someone who's just been sacked from his tenth job in as many years.
Perhaps paying a DECENT manager a bit more will be long term gain. We need to aim high. They can only say No.
Eustace was sacked by Birmingham because he wasn't a big enough name. He admitted he stalled on applying for the Bristol City job. Ask him! Stephen Robinson at St Mirren is someone who has worked wonders with a very tight budget. 3rd in the SPL. Ask him.
There will be others - Ask them!
There is no point in wasting time headhunting managers that won’t be remotely interested.
We would also have to pay compensation to St Mirren for a start.
There will be lots of managers and coaches with a range of experiences, styles and ideas that will be interested in managing Town. But Eustace and Stephen Robinson will not be two of them.
You can tell from this thread that we have some "fans" who can't wait to have a moan at the next managerial appointment. It won't matter who it is, they'll be on telling us how bad an appointment it is and how someone else would have been so much better without actually naming anyone because "that's not my job".
Can we just nip this whole “Stockwood is trying to control our style of play” thing in the bud?
Notwithstanding the fact that we’ve had people moaning about Hurst’s “boring” brand of football throughout his whole tenure, JS is speaking in very general terms. He wants us to have an entertaining, attacking team that is good to watch – who doesn’t want that? He and Pettit will hire a coach they think can deliver that, but they’re not going to be suggesting formations or selecting the team. In fact, he explicitly stated that the new hire will have space to implement their own identity/brand of football.
People are using JS’s wish to see us play aggressively with an attacking mindset as a stick to beat him with, which I find very odd.
You make a good point but it is human nature for people to have more sceptical/differing opinions than others.
I for one have indeed been crying out for a specific playing style, but I am not too fussed about the tactics used; that is entirely the decision of the manager at the time. I think if we have a winning style that would suit most of us.
You can tell from this thread that we have some "fans" who can't wait to have a moan at the next managerial appointment. It won't matter who it is, they'll be on telling us how bad an appointment it is and how someone else would have been so much better without actually naming anyone because "that's not my job".
Sadly this all very true.PH was a decent bloke who had run out of ideas and the time was right to change it However like others have pointed out I was hoping we had a plan if we were looking at this for 5 weeks? Whoever comes in like PH will have my support but if I don't like what I see I'll voice my disapproval on here.UTM
Sadly this all very true.PH was a decent bloke who had run out of ideas and the time was right to change it However like others have pointed out I was hoping we had a plan if we were looking at this for 5 weeks? Whoever comes in like PH will have my support but if I don't like what I see I'll voice my disapproval on here.UTM
Exactly right . We don’t want to go down the mr Wham route of silencing the fan base do we ?
I wonder if the planned fans forum will go ahead as scheduled?
I’m sure Matt Dean mentioned it was during the radio commentary yesterday as he referred, quite humorously, about the last one he hosted and how he needed a brandy afterwards!!!
You can tell from this thread that we have some "fans" who can't wait to have a moan at the next managerial appointment. It won't matter who it is, they'll be on telling us how bad an appointment it is and how someone else would have been so much better without actually naming anyone because "that's not my job".
Would not be disappointed if it was Healy, cracking striker, attack minded coach surely. Though we need to sharpen up at the back so I’d hope he would bring a defensive coach in!
With a win % of 62.5 - Could be an interesting apointment.
I get a bit perturbed with these stats. Don't know anything about Healy other than he's been managing in Northern Ireland which must be a similar standard to Gibraltar where Nathan Rooney had a similarly impressive win ration. Using that measure alone they're both better managers than Klopp and Unai Emery who I believe are in the 55% area. The win percentage isn't meaningless but it needs a lot of context adding
I get a bit perturbed with these stats. Don't know anything about Healy other than he's been managing in Northern Ireland which must be a similar standard to Gibraltar where Nathan Rooney had a similarly impressive win ration. Using that measure alone they're both better managers than Klopp and Unai Emery who I believe are in the 55% area. The win percentage isn't meaningless but it needs a lot of context adding
You can’t compare Northern Ireland (population 1.9m) with Gibraltar (population 34k). At least not in this context. Attendances in the Northern Irish Premiership range from mid-table National League to mid-table NLN/S, so that’s a more representative comparison.
In terms of further context, he’s won the title with Linfield 5 times in 8 seasons (they hadn’t won it in 4 attempts when he arrived), and Wikipedia also states this:
Quoted Text
Linfield came close to becoming the first Northern Irish team to qualify for the group stages of a European competition when they took FK RFS of Latvia to a penalty shoot-out in the play-offs for the UEFA Europa Conference League on 25 August 2022.
Add to the fact Healy had a solid playing career, mostly at Championship level, and he looks a far more credible candidate than Nathan Rooney, for me.
I like the idea we’re identifying ideal candidates and headhunting!
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Not sure about the latest Town rumour………sometimes you can take data alone too far. I say that as a statistical nerd. Be very careful recruiting someone whose management experience is restricted to Northern Ireland alone.
i watch a lot of the N.I. footie on the red button, and follow the league from afar. Healy has been really successful for them. Had a bit of a wobble but last season but they've come roaring back this season and are miles ahead of the rest already That said, they are the Real Madrid of N.I. football, with by far the biggest support and resources. They've had their cage rattled by Larne, who have been backed by the Purple Bricks founder, who's from Larne. In fact, I think the investment in Larne was the catalyst for a much improved league, with the standard improving every year. There's now a top 6 who I'd say are probably N.L. level, with the rest being step 3 or 4. Linfield are almost on a par with Gy ,support wise, n can imagine there's not much difference in terms of resources. Difficult to say his playing style as they have so many of the best players they tend to steamroller quite a few of the teams). Larne are the most attractive passing team, but Healey's team seem a bit more pragmatic ,with good defensive players and probably the best keeper in the league. that said he has ,and has had, some really exciting offensive players (Shayne Lavery who's now at Blackpool was a stand out). he's also not scared to bring through youngsters.
ex Mariner Jordan Stewart is still in the Linfield squad btw
Ferguson the young striker at Brighton was sourced from NI football. I take it then that there are other decent players there to be managed.
Hes from Eire, played for Bohemians. Shayne Lavery ( linfield to blackpool) Trai Hume ( linfield to sunderland) n Conor McMenamin (glentoran to st mirren) are the 3 biggest recent moves from NI to the main land
Spoken to a Northern Irish friend I went to University with, he now works in and around Belfast doing a bit of sports journalism. He told me it’s something that is of public knowledge that David wants to manage in England and it was more of a when not if. He says that he’d be a real coup for a club in our position, especially how quickly he changed fortunes around at Linfield after they had gone 5 years without any silverware and are now back dominating Northern Irish football. They score the most goals and are the best defensively by a clear cut distance. A well oiled and well drilled winning machine. He’s at the Linfield game tomorrow so i’ve asked him to see if he can dig any deeper into the story but a few of there fans believe he’s heading our way.
Think it's more to do with being a solid rumour from a credible source.
Healey been in his current job for a few years and maybe looking for a new challenge.
In Feb of 2018 Linfield FC chairman put out a statement denying David Healey's interest in Grimsby Town https://www.grimsbytelegraph.c.....s-suggesting-1237042 Strange one that as I thought Russell was still in charge. Anyway into the ever more rich mix of GTFC probable/could be/might be/let's start a rumour he goes
So our Northern Ireland rumour is based on a denial made 5 years ago? Seems like a long shot.
Well, it’s based on a tweet from Pete O’Rourke who has no affiliation with Town and yet has been routinely accurate when reporting Town related “rumours”. Highly unlikely he’s put that out there on the basis of an article from half-a-decade ago.
Well, it’s based on a tweet from Pete O’Rourke who has no affiliation with Town and yet has been routinely accurate when reporting Town related “rumours”. Highly unlikely he’s put that out there on the basis of an article from half-a-decade ago.
Tweet 1721588392473805021 will appear here...
Could perhaps be putting it out on behalf of his agent. Stir up some interest in the fanbase, maybe hurry the club up a bit etc.
Could perhaps be putting it out on behalf of his agent. Stir up some interest in the fanbase, maybe hurry the club up a bit etc.
Who knows? If memory serves, Michael Jolley was effectively appointed by the Fishy by proxy on the basis of a convincing video on Coaches Voices (and the lack of any other viable looking candidates).
I might be wrong, but I suspect the incumbent owners will be less moved by outside influence.
Spoken to a Northern Irish friend I went to University with, he now works in and around Belfast doing a bit of sports journalism. He told me it’s something that is of public knowledge that David wants to manage in England and it was more of a when not if. He says that he’d be a real coup for a club in our position, especially how quickly he changed fortunes around at Linfield after they had gone 5 years without any silverware and are now back dominating Northern Irish football. They score the most goals and are the best defensively by a clear cut distance. A well oiled and well drilled winning machine. He’s at the Linfield game tomorrow so i’ve asked him to see if he can dig any deeper into the story but a few of there fans believe he’s heading our way.
So i’ve had a reply, according to his sources we’ve made an approach to speak with Healy and that’s been accepted. Linfield aren’t very hopeful of him staying and believe it’s now a formality if the interview goes well, obvious disappointment in the camp but always have understood that he’s ambitious and wants to manage at the very top and they won’t stand in his way.
Location: Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middle...
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I didn't really take much notice of David Healy in the discussions so far but Wiki'd him this morning..
Now realise he is the David Healy who played for Preston, Leeds and Rangers among others. A ton of league experience and has lived in the area (give or take).
His record at Linfield is fantastic, he's taken an average side and made them regular winners. They currently lead the league by a distance.
So our candidates appear to be a bunch of blokes who have been sacked from other jobs recently or a serial winner......I'll let you do the maths.
Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
Looks an awful lot like data that, be careful or the flaming pitchforks will be out for you
It proves the point perfectly. Data without context is meaningless.
I remember Healy from his playing days but like most of us don't know what sort of manager he is bar his win percentage. Alan Buckley had a poor win ratio compared to this fella but Buckley spent a lot of his career managing underdogs. Managing in Northern Ireland is a completely different kettle of fish.
If the Board feels he is the right man for the job then great, but they won't be swayed by raw data of his win percentage.
It proves the point perfectly. Data without context is meaningless.
I remember Healy from his playing days but like most of us don't know what sort of manager he is bar his win percentage. Alan Buckley had a poor win ratio compared to this fella but Buckley spent a lot of his career managing underdogs. Managing in Northern Ireland is a completely different kettle of fish.
If the Board feels he is the right man for the job then great, but they won't be swayed by raw data of his win percentage.
Phew! That's a relief, I was beginning to lose sleep thinking that Jason and Andrew were going to choose the new manager on one single data point. I shall sleep soundly tonight knowing you've put them back on the right course LCL.
A Healy appointment would I think be midway between well received and dissappointing . Positive would be no failures on cv negatives woujd be success achieved managing a big fish swimming in a puddle.
Says linfield have a cup game tonight and then a top of the table clash Saturday.
I wonder if some sort of deal might have been worked out were he stays for those and then interviews with us afterwards, if they've agreed an approach.
Davies and Pearson stay in charge for 1 more game perhaps.
Says linfield have a cup game tonight and then a top of the table clash Saturday.
I wonder if some sort of deal might have been worked out were he stays for those and then interviews with us afterwards, if they've agreed an approach.
Davies and Pearson stay in charge for 1 more game perhaps.
Rumoured to have already have had initial talks, that came from somebody on X whos appears to have connections to the club...
A Healy appointment would I think be midway between well received and dissappointing . Positive would be no failures on cv negatives woujd be success achieved managing a big fish swimming in a puddle.
What about the killer negative of not knowing which away games are stopovers and which are travel on the day - he won’t have a clue about that…?
Phew! That's a relief, I was beginning to lose sleep thinking that Jason and Andrew were going to choose the new manager on one single data point. I shall sleep soundly tonight knowing you've put them back on the right course LCL.
Says linfield have a cup game tonight and then a top of the table clash Saturday.
I wonder if some sort of deal might have been worked out were he stays for those and then interviews with us afterwards, if they've agreed an approach.
Davies and Pearson stay in charge for 1 more game perhaps.
Can the stats bods please conduct an analysis of how Healy responds to the crowd this evening compared to previous games - i.e. duration of post-match claps, style of clapping, positional analysis relative to supporter location.
Should give us a good indication of his thinking. Cheers.
Rumoured to have already have had initial talks, that came from somebody on X whos appears to have connections to the club...
Perhaps the move is agreed but on hold until after those games then - appointed in time to be in the stands for the cup replay and take charge afterwards?
Perhaps the move is agreed but on hold until after those games then - appointed in time to be in the stands for the cup replay and take charge afterwards?
Christ, I hope not - he could be the first league manager to top himself before actually starting work.
Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
Phew! That's a relief, I was beginning to lose sleep thinking that Jason and Andrew were going to choose the new manager on one single data point. I shall sleep soundly tonight knowing you've put them back on the right course LCL.
Good. I am pleased to see we all now agree that this, like all football data, is meaninglessness without the wider context. I don't know why you lot think it is at all contentious.
Shine a light - nobody would think that, would they! It wouldn’t make sense in any aspect of life. Data - used everywhere - requires a wide context and a load of interpretation and application. It’s an art and a science. It goes without chuffing saying! This notion that ‘football is a simple game’ and Laurie Mcmenemy didn’t need data just makes you sound, obsessively obtuse.
Good. I am pleased to see we all now agree that this, like all football data, is meaninglessness without the wider context. I don't know why you lot think it is at all contentious.
Shine a light - nobody would think that, would they! It wouldn’t make sense in any aspect of life. Data - used everywhere - requires a wide context and a load of interpretation and application. It’s an art and a science. It goes without chuffing saying! This notion that ‘football is a simple game’ and Laurie Mcmenemy didn’t need data just makes you sound, obsessively obtuse.
I suspect that Lawrie Mac would have used any data he could have got his hands on if it have been available.
Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
Reading about Healy he sounds a great bloke, who leads by example, values honesty, hard work and integrity. Successful as a player and now successful as a manager.Still Northern Ireland leading scorer internationally!! Kind of hoping he comes, as he sounds exactly what we need.
But then I thought the same about Bignot, Jolley and Holloway!!
Noting that he spent 6 years at Man U under the Ferguson regime and, in one interview, mentioned that he wants to get to know his players and what makes them tick as Ferguson used to. That will surely appeal to our owners as will many of the attributes that seemed to typify Man U at that time.
I’d be surprised if the owners just went straight for Healy & didn’t go ahead with other interviews/options alongside him.
Certainly sounds like something to get excited about, the risk is the league he’s in is certainly a different proposition to the EFL but having a former striker in charge will surely excite our forward players. He’s also a fairly big name which would likely offer us some decent exposure and potentially prove an attractive proposition to potential new players.
The league he manages in is fecking terrible and comparable to at least a level below the National League, as shown by most of the players who’ve tried to make the transition. This is a huge risk to our EFL status and one which I’m not sure I’m comfortable with.
The league he manages in is fecking terrible and comparable to at least a level below the National League, as shown by most of the players who’ve tried to make the transition. This is a huge risk to our EFL status and one which I’m not sure I’m comfortable with.
The overall standard is probably comparable to the NL but to say many of the players who make the transition to the EFL fail is just not true. Most the Northern Irish national team are playing L1 level and above.. I imagine they'll be many players in his team that will probably be useful at our level.
The league he manages in is fecking terrible and comparable to at least a level below the National League, as shown by most of the players who’ve tried to make the transition. This is a huge risk to our EFL status and one which I’m not sure I’m comfortable with.
Is that a common stereotype? How many can you actually name that have come across and failed to make the transition? Because James McClean, Shayne Lavery Paul Smyth, Trai Hume and Stuart Dallas are all players who have moved across from the NIPL and done well. Each one of them would walk in to our team and three of them have previously played for Linfield.under Healy.
Just listened to that myself, not sure what to make of it tbh.
Didn't deny interest at managing at higher/better level, and let's be honest, how many times have we heard managers/,players in the same position say exactly what he just has, only to leave with a couple of days..
Just listened to that myself, not sure what to make of it tbh.
Didn't deny interest at managing at higher/better level, and let's be honest, how many times have we heard managers/,players in the same position say exactly what he just has, only to leave with a couple of days..
Certainly didn't go out of his way to quash the story, and in fact made it clear he would be leaving if an offer came in that was right. You'd surely have to think he's open to what we have to say.
Just looked at their average gate and it's about 3400, and they're the biggest club. You'd think, even with a bit of a TV deal etc, they're only going to be at NL level income at most. So he's won a lot but in a v small league were he's the relative big spender. It's a gamble but then every appointment is I suppose.
For me, it’s very telling that he mentions only being focused on tonight and the game on Saturday - not beyond! Strange wording I feel and as others have said only further adds to the likelihood that there has indeed been contact and perhaps an agreement to progress things after their big game at the weekend - which fits in well with what Jason has been saying in terms of a rough time frame!
"They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old, Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn, At the going down of the sun, and in the morning, We WILL remember them"
Our most successful manager in the last 25 years had never managed higher than the conference north and had spent the previous few years in the Unibond Prem.
If Grimsby want David Healey they need to go after him, which means a trip to Belfast for the Chairman. Knowing the way we do things it will be wait for applications and then interview, which is the most stupid way possible. All you get applying for jobs are Managers no one else wants. We need to identify the Manager we want and move heaven and earth to get him. Personally i would love to see Healey as our next manager and if i was the Chairman i would be knocking on his door now...
If Grimsby want David Healey they need to go after him, which means a trip to Belfast for the Chairman. Knowing the way we do things it will be wait for applications and then interview, which is the most stupid way possible. All you get applying for jobs are Managers no one else wants. We need to identify the Manager we want and move heaven and earth to get him. Personally i would love to see Healey as our next manager and if i was the Chairman i would be knocking on his door now...
For me, listening to that interview gave me the impression he will stay to see out his contract at Linfield. He mentioned that he has another year on his contract after this year, and never really showed any sign that he might be moving before his contract is up. We shall see!
The league he manages in is fecking terrible and comparable to at least a level below the National League, as shown by most of the players who’ve tried to make the transition. This is a huge risk to our EFL status and one which I’m not sure I’m comfortable with.
This. We’re at the stage of the breakup where we’d take anyone with a name. I guarantee that if someone had suggested David Healy as a replacement for Hurst a month ago, they’d have been shouted off the fishy,
It’s always the same, fans bay for blood, manager gets sacked, stupid unrealistic replacements are touted, the shortlist narrows, the reality of who we’re actually left with dawns, the most vocal posters disappear, then we all get excited about anyone we’ve vaguely heard of.
For me, listening to that interview gave me the impression he will stay to see out his contract at Linfield. He mentioned that he has another year on his contract after this year, and never really showed any sign that he might be moving before his contract is up. We shall see!
I may well be wrong but I expect Healy will be interviewed and offered the job but he will want to do the honourable thing and manage Linfield in their big game against Larne at the weekend. Come Monday or Tuesday, he’ll be announced as manager with the caretakers taking the team through the replay a week tonight.
The overall standard is probably comparable to the NL but to say many of the players who make the transition to the EFL fail is just not true. Most the Northern Irish national team are playing L1 level and above.. I imagine they'll be many players in his team that will probably be useful at our level.
Being a Northern Irish international and playing in the EFL is not the same as a player playing in the Northern Irish Premiership that is transitioning to EFL level. Eg Jonny Evans has never played club football in Northern Ireland.
Incidentally how many Northern Ireland international players play their club football in Northern Ireland?
If Grimsby want David Healey they need to go after him, which means a trip to Belfast for the Chairman. Knowing the way we do things it will be wait for applications and then interview, which is the most stupid way possible. All you get applying for jobs are Managers no one else wants. We need to identify the Manager we want and move heaven and earth to get him. Personally i would love to see Healey as our next manager and if i was the Chairman i would be knocking on his door now...
If you listened to the Chairman’s interview he stated that in addition to considering applications received the club would also consider, or would actually be, approaching clubs where there was an interest in talking to their Manager. As for only attracting applicants from people nobody else wants I think you have failed to consider possible applications from Managers currently employed at non EFL clubs, including abroad and other UK countries, and coaches looking to move into Management for the first time.
Thus in reality non of us have a clue who has applied, who we have spoken to and who will be the person appointed. Two days ago Danny Cowley was allegedly a shoe in now it’s David Healy and by Thursday no doubt it will be someone different.
Bristol City have just appointed Oxford’s Manager who around two years ago was sacked by MK Dons so taking on a sacked Manager is not a recipe for disaster and Lawrie Mac didn’t do too badly.
Being a Northern Irish international and playing in the EFL is not the same as a player playing in the Northern Irish Premiership that is transitioning to EFL level. Eg Jonny Evans has never played club football in Northern Ireland.
Incidentally how many Northern Ireland international players play their club football in Northern Ireland?
That may be true but 75% of them have played club football in NI. Paul Smyth was playing for David Healy at Linfield 5 years ago and he was probably the best player in this division last year and now at QPR. Trai Hume was playing for David Healys Linfield 2 years ago and has now played 46 times for Sunderland. Callum Marshall left Linfield to join West Ham 2 years ago. Eoin Toal was playing for Derry City last year and has been a standout performer for Bolton in the league above. These are just recent mentions of players, there's plenty more. The point made was that the standard of the league is below the NL and there's 0 talent which just isn't true.
That may be true but 75% of them have played club football in NI. Paul Smyth was playing for David Healy at Linfield 5 years ago and he was probably the best player in this division last year and now at QPR. Trai Hume was playing for David Healys Linfield 2 years ago and has now played 46 times for Sunderland. Callum Marshall left Linfield to join West Ham 2 years ago. Eoin Toal was playing for Derry City last year and has been a standout performer for Bolton in the league above. These are just recent mentions of players, there's plenty more. The point made was that the standard of the league is below the NL and there's 0 talent which just isn't true.
Being a Northern Irish international and playing in the EFL is not the same as a player playing in the Northern Irish Premiership that is transitioning to EFL level. Eg Jonny Evans has never played club football in Northern Ireland.
Incidentally how many Northern Ireland international players play their club football in Northern Ireland?
At the moment just Lee Bonis, n last year McMenamin was an international whilst at Glentoran..A lot of the under 21 squad play locally
Ps linfield won 2.1 in the cup against big rivals Glentoran tonight. In one of the other ties Coleraine beat Ballymena 18-17 on pens!
That may be true but 75% of them have played club football in NI. Paul Smyth was playing for David Healy at Linfield 5 years ago and he was probably the best player in this division last year and now at QPR. Trai Hume was playing for David Healys Linfield 2 years ago and has now played 46 times for Sunderland. Callum Marshall left Linfield to join West Ham 2 years ago. Eoin Toal was playing for Derry City last year and has been a standout performer for Bolton in the league above. These are just recent mentions of players, there's plenty more. The point made was that the standard of the league is below the NL and there's 0 talent which just isn't true.
Derry city play in the league of Ireland , not the nifl
this bloke is a GTFC sponsor , posted earlier today
Tweet 1721839893653934443 will appear here...
He’s only speculating like the rest of us a knows no more, nor does he claim to be ITK. Just a genuine bloke with hopes, dreams and fears about this great Club.
Lots of people ITK but very rarely does anyone know that much nowadays as the Club is discrete and operate with so much more professionalism - let’s face it, nobody knows anything right now and we are all just guessing.
He’s only speculating like the rest of us a knows no more, nor does he claim to be ITK. Just a genuine bloke with hopes, dreams and fears about this great Club.
Lots of people ITK but very rarely does anyone know that much nowadays as the Club is discrete and operate with so much more professionalism - let’s face it, nobody knows anything right now and we are all just guessing.
UTM
Nothing to do with the fact he's just been over at linfield with his pL then?.
Why would he risk coming here? He's at a winning club and nowadays clubs sack managers in mid table, so he'd surely get a chance at a club in an ok position when he chooses. We're solidly in the bottom 4 with the worst form in the league. If he came here, failure is high chance and then he's no longer a serial winner.
Can't see it myself. Taking a relegation battle job where staying up isn't even considered success makes no sense to me.
Why would he risk coming here? He's at a winning club and nowadays clubs sack managers in mid table, so he'd surely get a chance at a club in an ok position when he chooses. We're solidly in the bottom 4 with the worst form in the league. If he came here, failure is high chance and then he's no longer a serial winner.
Can't see it myself. Taking a relegation battle job where staying up isn't even considered success makes no sense to me.
Why would he risk coming here? He's at a winning club and nowadays clubs sack managers in mid table, so he'd surely get a chance at a club in an ok position when he chooses. We're solidly in the bottom 4 with the worst form in the league. If he came here, failure is high chance and then he's no longer a serial winner.
Can't see it myself. Taking a relegation battle job where staying up isn't even considered success makes no sense to me.
Have to agree with this if I’m honest. Great that we’re looking at him if true, but I just don’t think we are enough of an attractive proposal to tempt him. If I were him, I’d stay there, keep winning titles, and bigger clubs than Grimsby Town will start to take notice.
"Falls to Arnold... Arnold! That's it! Thats it! He's sealed it! Grimsby Town are back in the football league!!! Just a minute to go and Nathan Arnold makes it 3-1! Look at the scenes behind the goal! Look at the relief! The agony is finally over!!!"
John Tondeur - Wembley Stadium Sunday 15th May 2016
Interesting that we’re both a solidly bottom-4 club and a risk not worth taken for a highly rated serial winner, whilst simultaneously being much too big a step up from what is a step up from Sunday-league.
The Fishy truly is a land of contrasts. Miserable cùnts on one side, miserable cùnts on the other.
PH Dismissed all links to Shrewsbury don't forget....
Imagine if he come out before 2 big games and said 'Yes, i'm very interested and can't wait to get over there and speak to them'....
He's clearly very professional, and i think discussions will happen next week, and go from there.
I think that’s more wishful thinking to be honest. Combined with his pre-match interview, it sounds more of a polite/respectful decline. He’s hardly going to say “Grimsby are excrement, I can do better than them.”
Interesting that we’re both a solidly bottom-4 club and a risk not worth taken for a highly rated serial winner, whilst simultaneously being much too big a step up from what is a step up from Sunday-league.
The Fishy truly is a land of contrasts. Miserable cùnts on one side, miserable cùnts on the other.
Interesting that we’re both a solidly bottom-4 club and a risk not worth taken for a highly rated serial winner, whilst simultaneously being much too big a step up from what is a step up from Sunday-league.
The Fishy truly is a land of contrasts. Miserable cùnts on one side, miserable cùnts on the other.
You've overlooked the miserable c*nts who sit in the middle.
Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
If we are interested in him, why wouldn't he be interested in us?
He wants to manage in England and he isn't going to land a top job just yet. If he came here and did well, then that's a different proposition.
A job here, or somewhere like it would be the obvious next step for him, as it was for Paul Hurst. It's a step up without being a huge jump.
I've no idea if any of the speculation is true, but some credible sources seem to think it is, and if we have contacted him, he's not going to say so is he?
Of course he’d be interested. If you want to manage in England you have to start somewhere. He isn’t going from his current job to a top level job without gaining credibility in the lower leagues
a) Healy being our number 1 target for the job (or having been offered it)
b) Healy denying any interest in the job
If we take Stockwood at his word, and I do as far as this goes, we’re working through a process that will take us down to a shortlist of 3 or 4 candidates, at which point formal interviews will take place from there and offers made accordingly.
It sounds likely that he’s going to be on that shortlist, but I very much doubt he’s at a stage where he can say anything more committal than he has. He’s given the kind of generic, bog standard, “I’m just focusing on the next game” type of interview that I’d expect at this stage.
a) Healy being our number 1 target for the job (or having been offered it)
b) Healy denying any interest in the job
If we take Stockwood at his word, and I do as far as this goes, we’re working through a process that will take us down to a shortlist of 3 or 4 candidates, at which point formal interviews will take place from there and offers made accordingly.
It sounds likely that he’s going to be on that shortlist, but I very much doubt he’s at a stage where he can say anything more committal than he has. He’s given the kind of generic, bog standard, “I’m just focusing on the next game” type of interview that I’d expect at this stage.
From the prediction thread, we have Cowley, Parkinson and Healy, in that order, at the moment.
You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
I think getting David Healy would be a real managerial coup for Town, but I don't see it as likely to happen.
In the last three seasons he's won the NI Premier League twice (2nd place in the other) and their top cup competition once. Linfield have only failed to play in Europe once since Healy was appointed in 2015. (His first manager's job btw) He clearly knows how to set up sides to win matches, which outweighs any risk (regarding the standard of football) for me.
It would take some offer to induce him to give that up for a likely relegation scrap with unfashionable Grimsby.
I'd be well impressed if he did give us a go, and I give credit to GTFC for asking him the question.
** Linfield's player of the season last year was a 22yo 6'3" centre back. Just saying..
Stockwood was aghast that he got applications on the evening PH was sacked.
I would just class it as keenness in a dog eat dog world.
Strikes me as keenness from agents tbh. I'm sure agents generally know what jobs are possibly coming up and would be ready for them, they will want to get their clients name into ones that are attractive to them. I doubt any manager with a game Saturday has the time to get in touch that quickly...
Interesting that we’re both a solidly bottom-4 club and a risk not worth taken for a highly rated serial winner, whilst simultaneously being much too big a step up from what is a step up from Sunday-league.
The Fishy truly is a land of contrasts. Miserable cùnts on one side, miserable cùnts on the other.
Great post, that made me laugh. Guess we have a track record of getting excited about new managers (Jolley, Newell, Bignot, Holloway) before being let down badly. Maybe it also illustrates how critical this appointment is given our league position. It's not dissimilar to new signings pre season. Most people on here have them down as world beaters before we've seen them kick a ball
The only people that know are the applicants and possibly their agents and Stockwood, so unless they have let it slip, this is just another made up rumour.
The only people that know are the applicants and possibly their agents and Stockwood, so unless they have let it slip, this is just another made up rumour.
I didn't hear the interview but didn't people say that Stockwood said lots of people were involved, certainly including Joe Hutchinson. Plus admin staff at the club possibly, rumours get out of offices from what people happen to see.
I don't know anything about Cowleys and Oxford but it seems a very good fit IMO
Can't see Oxford being interested in them at all. The guy who has just left them to go to Bristol City looks like he has been given some real backing over the summer and built a real technical squad that play some of the best football in that league. Would be a massive risk for them sitting second in the league to effectively throw all that away and give the job to the Cowleys who are not exactly known for having their teams play brilliant football. I think they would and should be hoping for a higher calibre of applicant to be interested.
Listening to that Healy interview on Twitter I sped up the recording, something I always do for most footy interviews because they tend to be much about muchness with all the tried and tested clichés rolled out. It only seems to be for football interviews (from both the interviewer and the interviewee) that there is waaay too much dead air and lots of deep pauses.
Can't be doing that with Healy, it was like listening to Jim McDonald after a big night on Whizz with Kevin Webster.
Strikes me as keenness from agents tbh. I'm sure agents generally know what jobs are possibly coming up and would be ready for them, they will want to get their clients name into ones that are attractive to them. I doubt any manager with a game Saturday has the time to get in touch that quickly...
Agents nose told them that PH was to be sacked before even Stockwood knew it.
Healy will have a deep knowledge of Irish players that could bring in a whole new aspect to data acquisition.
He has had success in Ireland and comes across as ambitious to be a winner !
A completely fresh name, a chance to clear the decks and start the improvement needed.
In a recent interview he spoke about 2 strikers up front grafting together unselfishly for the common good and harassing defenders into making mistakes.
If he is interested, then I think he could bring the out of form players back in line if they are able, and if not, to bring in players he will have known who can do the job required for him.
An attacking side would also appease the fans, as negative tactics have often lost us goals and points.
Hurst was good to get us back in the League, but this season has baffled many fans as to how we play, who plays where, and why simple ways of playing are ignored or not capable of being done, by professionals who have been treated well, with longer contracts in several cases.
Can't see Oxford being interested in them at all. The guy who has just left them to go to Bristol City looks like he has been given some real backing over the summer and built a real technical squad that play some of the best football in that league. Would be a massive risk for them sitting second in the league to effectively throw all that away and give the job to the Cowleys who are not exactly known for having their teams play brilliant football. I think they would and should be hoping for a higher calibre of applicant to be interested.
That's a really sensible view. When folk were complaining that Stockdale wanted to play attacking football, and shouldn't have that view as it's for the manager, you pick managers based on the style you want to play. Otherwise you could be throwing your whole squad out which would be even more expensive.
just 1 thing ; if Oxford go for the Notts County manager, Stockwood might want to get a hurry-on, coz anyone decent is going to take them over us in a heartbeat
Agents nose told them that PH was to be sacked before even Stockwood knew it.
I don’t think it’s controversial to say it wasn’t a massive secret PH would have been under pressure and one to keep an eye on.. As with a lot of sackings they’re rarely shocks especially for people who’s job it is to be tuned in to these things..
Why would he swap to Grimsby? He is in a very safe job with a similar size club but at the same time very much more successful. He probably wont be on much more money if he comes here and overheads due to moving ect would be extortionate.
Someone offered me a job hundreds of miles away thats lets face it riky why would i take it? surely you stick to safe.
Why would he swap to Grimsby? He is in a very safe job with a similar size club but at the same time very much more successful. He probably wont be on much more money if he comes here and overheads due to moving ect would be extortionate.
Someone offered me a job hundreds of miles away thats lets face it riky why would i take it? surely you stick to safe.
Ambition
They average half of our attendance at best
Have a good season or two with us and opportunities will come up higher up the pyramid , I'm not sure if he stays in that league they ever will .
He might want to stay where he's happy and settled , who knows .
Guess we will find out , if we are actually in for him.
Why would he swap to Grimsby? He is in a very safe job with a similar size club but at the same time very much more successful. He probably wont be on much more money if he comes here and overheads due to moving ect would be extortionate.
Someone offered me a job hundreds of miles away thats lets face it riky why would i take it? surely you stick to safe.
I would guarantee he's on quite considerably less than Messrs Hurst n Doig, abd their average attendance is half of ours they play one other team with a half decent following, so their away revenue is somewhat diminished. He'll be offered the chance to manage a bigger club, in a much more competitive league, with better facilities, with the opportunity to progress his career, because after 8 years of success at linfield you'd have thought, with all the managers that have been released/moved on in that time, somebody else would've have had a sniff. Whichever job he takes next has the same risk as our vacancy and don't forget the risk we would be taking, this is a man that has only managed in a league that's about 3 steps below EFL. i would sincerely hope that part of the package would be a relocation allowance thrown in which could well be the sweetener he needs to attract him.
Re Healy I think it;s another "Fishy phenomenon" in that the more people post about him the more people become convinced he's the right person.
Good EFL playing record, International caps (scored a winner v England if memory serves me right) and successful manager in a small Country, League where from what I can tell his team only has one competitive opponent, that said he knows how to win things.
Very different challenge coming here when you look at our league position, current playing style and squad levels of confidence.etc..
Feels like the question for 1878 is how quickly would Healy (or anyone) get us up the league? He's clearly competent but not sure he's ever done that kind of thing before.
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
Re Healy I think it;s another "Fishy phenomenon" in that the more people post about him the more people become convinced he's the right person.
Good EFL playing record, International caps (scored a winner v England if memory serves me right) and successful manager in a small Country, League where from what I can tell his team only has one competitive opponent, that said he knows how to win things.
Very different challenge coming here when you look at our league position, current playing style and squad levels of confidence.etc..
Feels like the question for 1878 is how quickly would Healy (or anyone) get us up the league? He's clearly competent but not sure he's ever done that kind of thing before.
I would be much more open to an appointment like this if we were doing better in the league. At the bottom end, you are dealing with a totally different mindset. Healy seems to be switched on, and he will choose his next move wisely. In our current position, the chance of having a relegation on your CV is relatively high.
Let’s not catastrophise the situation. Yeah we’re on a bad run and not well placed currently, but it’s far from a lost cause. The squad aren’t bad technically, in the main, and we’ve all seen us stay up with teams comprised of písspots and borderline Sunday league players.
I don’t think it’s past this bunch to put together a run of 5,6,7 decent results - we just need someone to get them grinding out results in tough situations and giving them a bit of belief and direction when these short 20-minute bursts of good play die off.
It’s not great escape time yet and I’d hope we’re looking for someone with a bit more of a positive outlook than some on here.
One of the big things needed to tempt any Manager is the size of budget made available to them to strengthen the team. Offer them barely anything, and inheriting a bunch of players who are underachieving, is not going to interest the majority of Managers, and almost certainly not any with the experience we would love.
Now dangle a decent size carrot and you may get the experienced applying. In JS latest interview with Radio Humberside he states the "quality of the applicants we’re getting" so maybe the carrot has been dangled.
One of the big things needed to tempt any Manager is the size of budget made available to them to strengthen the team. Offer them barely anything, and inheriting a bunch of players who are underachieving, is not going to interest the majority of Managers, and almost certainly not any with the experience we would love.
Now dangle a decent size carrot and you may get the experienced applying. In JS latest interview with Radio Humberside he states the "quality of the applicants we’re getting" so maybe the carrot has been dangled.
Interesting that we’re both a solidly bottom-4 club and a risk not worth taken for a highly rated serial winner, whilst simultaneously being much too big a step up from what is a step up from Sunday-league.
The Fishy truly is a land of contrasts. Miserable cùnts on one side, miserable cùnts on the other.
An ambitious manager would always take a job at what they perceive to be a club underperforming providing the infrastructure for improvement is there. We tick a few boxes like respected owners, decent support for the level, a playing squad universally expected to be doing better etc. The potential for growth to increase their own reputation is key. I don't think we need to be too hard on ourselves when it comes to demanding a manager with some level of calibre. There are way more managers than clubs. I expect 1878 to deliver..
Any top level manager really fancy putting their reputation on the line when Pep finally leaves Man City?
[/b]One of the big things needed to tempt any Manager is the size of budget made available to them to strengthen the team[b]. Offer them barely anything, and inheriting a bunch of players who are underachieving, is not going to interest the majority of Managers, and almost certainly not any with the experience we would love.
Now dangle a decent size carrot and you may get the experienced applying. In JS latest interview with Radio Humberside he states the "quality of the applicants we’re getting" so maybe the carrot has been dangled.
There is no money left unless you have benefactor owners and that’s not been the case so far!!!!
Also
The team is massively underachieving but that may be un-retrievable. No manager bounce with Ben and Shaun so far!!!! Don’t want to be negative but these are facts for those looking in.
It’s should have been done weeks ago if you wanted to temp a name.
Now our hand is shown who would really want to come. It’s not as though it’s a league above.
How many players with pedigree have come here to find they end up in the NL or out the game. Managers alike.
Real difficult one but hope our fantastic owners get it right.
Let’s not catastrophise the situation. Yeah we’re on a bad run and not well placed currently, but it’s far from a lost cause. The squad aren’t bad technically, in the main, and we’ve all seen us stay up with teams comprised of písspots and borderline Sunday league players.
I don’t think it’s past this bunch to put together a run of 5,6,7 decent results - we just need someone to get them grinding out results in tough situations and giving them a bit of belief and direction when these short 20-minute bursts of good play die off.
It’s not great escape time yet and I’d hope we’re looking for someone with a bit more of a positive outlook than some on here.
We have to get the short-term right, because we get relegated if we don't. We need to be very aware that if we get this appointment wrong, our league status is at stake and there would be a lot of anger if we allowed that to happen again.
A third of the season has gone and we've won 3 games, exiting 2 cups at the first hurdle, with the third hurdle currently wobbling and potentially falling next week. The signs on Sunday were that the caretakers didn't get a reaction from the players so I don't think it's being dramatic to think we are in a bad situation.
Of course, if we pick up a few positive results then our situation is much better, but that same logic applies to Tranmere, Sutton and FGR.
Healy will have a deep knowledge of Irish players that could bring in a whole new aspect to data acquisition.
He has had success in Ireland and comes across as ambitious to be a winner !
A completely fresh name, a chance to clear the decks and start the improvement needed.
In a recent interview he spoke about 2 strikers up front grafting together unselfishly for the common good and harassing defenders into making mistakes.
If he is interested, then I think he could bring the out of form players back in line if they are able, and if not, to bring in players he will have known who can do the job required for him.
An attacking side would also appease the fans, as negative tactics have often lost us goals and points.
Hurst was good to get us back in the League, but this season has baffled many fans as to how we play, who plays where, and why simple ways of playing are ignored or not capable of being done, by professionals who have been treated well, with longer contracts in several cases.
AB MK1 came to us from a non-league club and found several footballing gems playing non-league football. I'm sure that Healy could do the same with players from Ireland, although persuading them to move here is a different thing. Healy, or any manager who comes here, has no loyalty to any of our existing squad so it is up to them to Impress in training and justify their team selection or inclusion in future plans.
The Future is Black & White. "The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
There is no money left unless you have benefactor owners and that’s not been the case so far!!!!
Also
The team is massively underachieving but that may be un-retrievable. No manager bounce with Ben and Shaun so far!!!! Don’t want to be negative but these are facts for those looking in.
It’s should have been done weeks ago if you wanted to temp a name.
Now our hand is shown who would really want to come. It’s not as though it’s a league above.
How many players with pedigree have come here to find they end up in the NL or out the game. Managers alike.
Real difficult one but hope our fantastic owners get it right.
Do you really think they would allow Hurst to spend all the budget in one go?.
These aren't failed fish filleters you're dealing with, they are astute business people and if you know anything about how a successful business is run, you set a budget for the year, its paid in increments, not in one big slab!!. Honestly, I don't know why you , everything is a dig, either at the club or the owners/staff. Ben and Pearson had 5 days with the players, Jesus H Christ, they aren't magicians. Do I think they should take the reigns full time, no i don't, but I certainly am not judging the effect they can have on a team so low in confidence after 5 days with the players.
There is no money left unless you have benefactor owners and that’s not been the case so far!!!!
Also
The team is massively underachieving but that may be un-retrievable. No manager bounce with Ben and Shaun so far!!!! Don’t want to be negative but these are facts for those looking in.
It’s should have been done weeks ago if you wanted to temp a name.
Now our hand is shown who would really want to come. It’s not as though it’s a league above.
How many players with pedigree have come here to find they end up in the NL or out the game. Managers alike.
Real difficult one but hope our fantastic owners get it right.
We are not down and out. What prospects we offer the new man are relatively good players, who are underperforming, good home and away following, decent training ground with a new one in the pipeline—finally, owners who want the club to improve, year on year.
Do all that and they will end up with an impressive CV.
You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
Just spoken to my neighbour and this is what was said :
Healy is very demanding from players and they respect that in him.
Genuine nice bloke and comes across very well when he’s been at q&a sessions.
There’s a fair bit of turmoil/unhappiness around the club with regards to players being allowed to leave.
His coaching style is on the front foot attacking and likes to develop young players and is not scared to put them in the first team.
He has a desire to manage in England and would be suited to it
Listen to JS comments it seems Healy ticks quite a few of the boxes they are looking for...
"We want to be an attractive, high-press football team and we want to be evidence-based in terms of what we do, which is what we’ve tried to bring into our conversations."
“When we talk about data . . . we’re trying to bring evidence into our conversations, so the art of football can be made easier for the people who have the experience. We want to have someone that can develop young players and is connected with our academy model and someone that is thinking about the community element of the club – playing modern football.”
As for if Healy would be interested, who can say but again if we listen to JS, you'd have to assume he falls in the category of applicants he is interviewing...
“I think we have high regard as a football club from others and I think people are starting to see what we’re about, the club we have been historically and the club we’ve tried to be over the last couple of years."
“People can see our values and what is important to us and this process is a good test of that because it is more important that you show your character when things aren't going well. We’ve represented ourselves well in recent years and I think that is shown by the quality of the applicants we’re getting.”
But it doesn't seem any appointment is imminent.
“We want this to be a long-term decision ideally, but you never know until you make the appointment and then life takes over, but we want to take our time to make sure that we get this right. [The appointment] won’t be soon, it will be a few weeks at a minimum because we want to do this well rather than quickly.”
The stick that was used to bash Hurst was the fact we'd lost the most points from winning positions in the league, the team clearly has talent and ability. 10 of those 20 points dropped we'd be sat comfortably in 9th. It's not like we're a million miles away, it's fine margins in this league.
May be it’s too close to home Matt. Them butchers boys are right Randy buggers.
Batch, Crombie, Moore K, Wiggington, Cumming, Waters, Bonnyman, Ford, Emson, Drinkell, Whymark. Love you all, You are the reason I'm on here. You've had help from Todd, Handyside, Futcher P, Groves, Mendonca, Macca etc etc etc. Up The Mariners!!!!!!!!!
Regarding the budget available to the next manager in the January window, does anyone suspect that PH wanted more £££ to spend on signings but this wasn’t given the ok and so he didn’t get all the targets he wanted? I got the feeling towards the end of the last window possibly the extra striker didn’t appear and also the left back he was trying to sign from Newcastle on loan . This maybe contributed to both glennon and Amos getting dropped in one of those classic manager demonstrations to board that the players we had weren’t good enough? Just a thought. I’m pretty sure that the new man will have to be given a war chest in January.
May be it’s too close to home Matt. Them butchers boys are right Randy buggers.
True enough. But if we're not allowed to make jokes like that when someone is consistently and very openly anti-the new owners who are otherwise generally well liked and respected by the majority of the fan base then the games gone.
True enough. But if we're not allowed to make jokes like that when someone is consistently and very openly anti-the new owners who are otherwise generally well liked and respected by the majority of the fan base then the games gone.
I’ll be honest, if it means a win tomorrow, I’d let them both have a go on mine. Fairs fair. As long as if we get beat then they reciprocate.
Batch, Crombie, Moore K, Wiggington, Cumming, Waters, Bonnyman, Ford, Emson, Drinkell, Whymark. Love you all, You are the reason I'm on here. You've had help from Todd, Handyside, Futcher P, Groves, Mendonca, Macca etc etc etc. Up The Mariners!!!!!!!!!
I think we're a more attractive proposition now than what we were when Hurst rejoined, without doubt.
Back then, we weren't a club that could go after managerial targets. Just contemplate how Fenty would have sold the club to a prospective manager in an interview situation, and then think of how Jason, Andrew & Debbie would sell the club.
We've got so much more to give a manager now — we've got solid foundations, business infrastructure, processes, professionalism... everything that was missing for decades. It's not what we see on a match-day but everything that happens outside of it.
For years we had inadequate gym equipment, a below-par pitch to train on. All those little improvements 1878 have been making, behind the scenes, under the radar... it builds the club's portfolio so that when we target someone we want as manager, we stand a better chance of attracting them to us.
Being 21st in the fourth division is just one small part of the overall picture.
If it is Healy we're after, I imagine we'd need all of the above to demonstrate to him that we are no basket case. We're giving him more than he possibly gets at Linfield — possibly in salary, but also in staff, infrastructure, potential, even data!
I've said many times on here that at our level you need a manager who is organised and a motivator. If you can get the best out of an average bunch in the fourth division then you'll do alright.
Tisdale won loads of promotions at Team Bath and then built up Exeter over a few years. It didn't matter at what level they won promotions at; the guy could get 11 players to go out there, win games and win leagues.
Healy's won big games at international level. He had a decent EFL career too. The bloke has a winning mentality. I wouldn't expect him to come in and make an immediate impact, but his philosophies and determination alone would be enough to pick these players off the ground.
Michael O'Neill may say he can manage higher than us... but until someone higher than us is willing to take a punt on him, then we may be his best route to that higher level.
Because of his achievements as a player at international level, and the success he's brought Linfield after some fallow years, if he has just one really good full season with us I'd say other clubs further up will take note.
"Don't shine that light in my face, mate - I've just lost a pint of blood."
A piece in the Grim Tele about Stockwoods BBC Humberside conversation
"Stockwood outlined some of the qualities Grimsby Town would be looking for in the new manager and said the club’s data-led approach was a factor in the ”conversations” they were having with candidates. He added: “We want to be an attractive, high-press football team and we want to be evidence-based in terms of what we do, which is what we’ve tried to bring into our conversations. When we talk about data . . . we’re trying to bring evidence into our conversations, so the art of football can be made easier for the people who have the experience. We want to have someone that can develop young players and is connected with our academy model and someone that is thinking about the community element of the club – playing modern football.”
Only downside I can see is what information has David Healy got on EFL. Players ?
He might need a few months to aquent himself to what we need and who to bring in.
I am sure he can make our squad a better all round unit that will win games.
Then get his own targets in come the summer.
In the space of 13 years during his playing career he made over 400 appearances at the following clubs:
- Manchester United - Preston North End - Norwich City - Leeds United - Fulham - Sunderland - Ipswich Town - Rangers
Amongst others. The best part of 50 of those appearances were for Fulham in the Premier League. Given his playing career ended a good 10 years ago, he'll have no shortage of mates and acquaintances in some kind of coaching capacity at various levels of the game. He'll be well connected in English football.
In the first instance though, he'd need to take we've got and turn it into something much more fluid, cohesive and defensively robust than it has for most of this season. Everything he'd need to know on that front would be right there in front of his eyes.
Have we actually any evidence yet that we have held, or about to hold, any discussions with Healy? We seem to spend an awful lot of time speculating about a Manager’s suitability without knowing if they are in the frame or net, hence several pages on Phil Parkinson then the Cowleys now Healy.
I know we are all keen to get a new Manager in but trying to identify who that will be appears beyond those of us who post on the Fishy so we need a better source of information to ensure these respective analyses are not going to waste.
For all the talk of taking their time to get the appointment right, I really do think it would be absolutely criminal to not have the new manager in place by Tuesday at the latest. We've got 2 pivotal league games in a row after the Slough replay against FGR and Sutton. Win both of those and things are looking much rosier, but lose them and we're firmly in the shite. We absolutely must give the new guy that whole week to prepare for FGR.
If they'd been taking about this for 6 weeks prior to Hurst's sacking, and particularly so 2 weeks before then the shortlist must be fully drawn up and I'd hope we're interviewing right now.
For all the talk of taking their time to get the appointment right, I really do think it would be absolutely criminal to not have the new manager in place by Tuesday at the latest. We've got 2 pivotal league games in a row after the Slough replay against FGR and Sutton. Win both of those and things are looking much rosier, but lose them and we're firmly in the shite. We absolutely must give the new guy that whole week to prepare for FGR.
If they'd been taking about this for 6 weeks prior to Hurst's sacking, and particularly so 2 weeks before then the shortlist must be fully drawn up and I'd hope we're interviewing right now.
I agree with you, but anyone with experience in the selection and interview process will know that there are lots of imponderables which can affect timescales. I have the battle scars to take with me forever.
I have read today in a Belfast Telegraph article that David Healy doesn't mess about with his players.
2 players recently failed a drugs test, the 2 are sacked on the spot.
That's the sort of disciplinary control that players should adhere to, and shows the players who is in charge !
The article also quoted the Glentoran manager as saying that Healy knows how to get his players to close out a winning result - how refreshing, just what GTFC needs right now and for the rest of this season.
For all the talk of taking their time to get the appointment right, I really do think it would be absolutely criminal to not have the new manager in place by Tuesday at the latest. We've got 2 pivotal league games in a row after the Slough replay against FGR and Sutton. Win both of those and things are looking much rosier, but lose them and we're firmly in the shite. We absolutely must give the new guy that whole week to prepare for FGR.
If they'd been taking about this for 6 weeks prior to Hurst's sacking, and particularly so 2 weeks before then the shortlist must be fully drawn up and I'd hope we're interviewing right now.
Criminal!!!
Would someone please think of the children and call the old bill?
Re Healy I think it;s another "Fishy phenomenon" in that the more people post about him the more people become convinced he's the right person.
Good EFL playing record, International caps (scored a winner v England if memory serves me right) and successful manager in a small Country, League where from what I can tell his team only has one competitive opponent, that said he knows how to win things.
Very different challenge coming here when you look at our league position, current playing style and squad levels of confidence.etc..
Feels like the question for 1878 is how quickly would Healy (or anyone) get us up the league? He's clearly competent but not sure he's ever done that kind of thing before.
not quite true. There is a certainly a big 3 - Linfield, Larne & the under achieving Glentoran. But the well run Cliftonville, Crusaders & Coleraine make up a decent Big 6.
TBH if we were going for an N.I. manager Stephen Baxter , Oran Kearney (not that they will leave N.I.) & particularly Tiernan Lynch could make a decent case. Lynch has gradually transformed Larne, and they play the best football in the league, really attractive to watch
In the space of 13 years during his playing career he made over 400 appearances at the following clubs:
- Manchester United - Preston North End - Norwich City - Leeds United - Fulham - Sunderland - Ipswich Town - Rangers
Amongst others. The best part of 50 of those appearances were for Fulham in the Premier League. Given his playing career ended a good 10 years ago, he'll have no shortage of mates and acquaintances in some kind of coaching capacity at various levels of the game. He'll be well connected in English football.
In the first instance though, he'd need to take we've got and turn it into something much more fluid, cohesive and defensively robust than it has for most of this season. Everything he'd need to know on that front would be right there in front of his eyes.
The range of contacts the switched on coaches/managers have is just unreal. I would say more but it's betraying confidences
ps IF we did get Healy then I think nobody should be under any illusions he's a gung ho attacking manager. A lot of his best players are defensive - Chris Shields , Jamie Mulgrew & the keeper Chris Johns are outstanding at that level. He's pragmatic; don't get me wrong they play some good stuff ,AND Joel Cooper, Kirk Miller & Stephen Lowery are amongst the best attacking players in the N.I. League, but in all the times I've watched them I haven't come away 'purring' as opposed to watching Larne or Glentoran at their best
Anthony Limbrick has thrown his hat in the ring and said he'd be very interested in the job.
In fairness to Limbrick, he steaded the ship after Jolley left, and by all accounts got the team spirit back within the group, up until Hollowhead flipping it all up again!..and he also recalled Vernam back and started to get a tune out of him.. Did pretty well with TNS and think he was well liked by the vast majority of the fan base.
In fairness to Limbrick, he steaded the ship after Jolley left, and by all accounts got the team spirit back within the group, up until Hollowhead flipping it all up again!..and he also recalled Vernam back and started to get a tune out of him.. Did pretty well with TNS and think he was well liked by the vast majority of the fan base.
Would rather Limbrick than someone like Nathan Rooney.
True enough. But if we're not allowed to make jokes like that when someone is consistently and very openly anti-the new owners who are otherwise generally well liked and respected by the majority of the fan base then the games gone.
In theory, we are anonymous on here, and the cut and thrust of discussion does sometimes spill over into more near-the-knuckle colourful language. Nobody knows if people are married, what sex they are or what side they bat for, as it's not relevant. So any sayings are not specific, as they don't know you, hence its not meant to be about your wife as they don't know if you have a wife.
For all the talk of taking their time to get the appointment right, I really do think it would be absolutely criminal to not have the new manager in place by Tuesday at the latest. We've got 2 pivotal league games in a row after the Slough replay against FGR and Sutton. Win both of those and things are looking much rosier, but lose them and we're firmly in the shite. We absolutely must give the new guy that whole week to prepare for FGR.
If they'd been taking about this for 6 weeks prior to Hurst's sacking, and particularly so 2 weeks before then the shortlist must be fully drawn up and I'd hope we're interviewing right now.
i think the story is (& it's backed up to a certain extent by what Jason said) is that they had a conversation a couple of months ago that the stats/data weren't up to scratch and they needed to improve within a 4-6 week time frame. The figures continued to flatline and he was ,maybe, given a 2 week/game final warning to improve things. defeats v Colchester n Donny was the final straw; I suspect he knew full well that it was shiite or bust v Donny. That's my interpretation - I stand open to being corrected
My opinion and i am sure others will disagree, but it would be a no for Limbrick, hes done well in Wales, which is a very uncompetitive league i believe, being well liked is great, but not a criteria we need at the moment in our present predicament, respect to and from the players and an ability to get into their heads and drag out the talent they have is whats needed, not continuously looking back to the past, fresh, new vibrant ideas are required to put this club back at the higher level it should be at. A proactive manager appointment is desperately needed at this time IMHO.
With all the respect in the world to Anthony Limbrick, who seems like a nice bloke and a decent coach, no way are the owners going to appoint a guy who was assistant manager under the previous regime and who won 1 of 9 games as caretaker boss previously (the game with the newly appointed Ian Holloway in the stands).
Not a single rumour aside from Healy so far, nearly 2 weeks in. They really do run a tight ship.
I still think (and hope) it'll be the Cowleys. Matt Dean tried to get Danny Cowley on Humberside the day after Hurst left, and also asked JS about the possibility of him being the next manager. Pretty sure Matt knows his stuff.
It's the betting odds that have people talking about healy If someone sticks £100 on one of the other candidates they will become short odds .I honestly think with all the applicants we could get someone from left field .Even a foreign manager .
Money has been flooding in for David Healy as speculation mounts over the Linfield boss becoming Grimsby Town's new manager. Healy has emerged as a clear frontrunner for the EFL League Two job, with the bookmakers slashing his odds of replacing Paul Hurst at Blundell Park. The former Northern Ireland striker was sitting at odds of 6/1 on Monday night, but that was slashed to 2/1 on Tuesday morning. Linfield boss Healy wheels out familiar cliche ahead of Glentoran cup test By dinner time on Tuesday those odds had been hammered into a clear 1/2 favourite (BetVictor) which is 60% chance of him joining us.
Current odds for following clubs looking for a new manager, the leading contenders
Grimsby Town David healy 4/6 Danny Cowley 5/1 Phil Parkinson 6/1 Nathan Rooney 8/1
Bristol Rovers Karl Robinson 1/2 Gary Monk 4/1 Andy Mangan 8/1 Neil Harris 12/1 Danny Cowley 25/1
Lincoln City Tom Shaw 3/1 Danny Cowley 4/1 Ian Foster 5/1 Damien Duff 5/1 Stephen Kenny 5/1
Colchester United Matthew Etherington 1/4 Neil Harris 8/1 Danny Cowley 16/1 Liam Bailey 16/1 Aidy Boothroyd 20/1
Oxford United Frank Lampard 2/1 Des Buckingham 4/1 John Eustace 8/1 Steve Cotterill 8/1 Dean Holden 8/1 Danny Cowley 12/1
Swindon Town Gavin Gunning 4/5 David Artell 13/8 Paul Caddis 8/1 Steve Morison 14/1
It's the betting odds that have people talking about healy If someone sticks £100 on one of the other candidates they will become short odds .I honestly think with all the applicants we could get someone from left field .Even a foreign manager .
It’s more the fact he was announced out of the blue by someone usually on the ball with rumours & signings. He wasn’t even on the bookies’ long lists before that.
Hoping everyone in the Upper has their eyes peeled on Saturday. We need photos.
Batch, Crombie, Moore K, Wiggington, Cumming, Waters, Bonnyman, Ford, Emson, Drinkell, Whymark. Love you all, You are the reason I'm on here. You've had help from Todd, Handyside, Futcher P, Groves, Mendonca, Macca etc etc etc. Up The Mariners!!!!!!!!!
Not a single rumour aside from Healy so far, nearly 2 weeks in. They really do run a tight ship.
We've had Cowley, Healy and now Limbrick. That's a few rumours and we have no idea if they've even established a short list yet. The lack of inside knowledge coming out makes me think that's more likely. We had plenty of people talking about player transfers when deals were underway.
Glad we seem to be doing a proper search for a new manager and not just appointing someone straight away like Slade replaced Bignot 2 days after he left!
I get what Jason says about doing it properly rather than quickly but if we don't get at least 1 win in the next 2 games we could be in the relegation places when a new manager takes over. Does that mean we'll get relegated? No, but it's not good. I'd be really disappointed if we haven't got someone in place by the FGR game.
The owners are good owners and will back a new manager with faith if not cash but despite what some believe this is a big task and possibly to some decent calibre managers not a very attractive one.
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
I get what Jason says about doing it properly rather than quickly but if we don't get at least 1 win in the next 2 games we could be in the relegation places when a new manager takes over. Does that mean we'll get relegated? No, but it's not good. I'd be really disappointed if we haven't got someone in place by the FGR game.
The owners are good owners and will back a new manager with faith if not cash but despite what some believe this is a big task and possibly to some decent calibre managers not a very attractive one.
Although Jason said 2 weeks ago that they had been looking at this for 6 weeks, I don't imagine for one second that they could have foreseen the results/poor performances this season.
They're taking their time/due diligence etc because, however much this matters to us, it matters a lot more to them.
Although Jason said 2 weeks ago that they had been looking at this for 6 weeks, I don't imagine for one second that they could have foreseen the results/poor performances this season.
They're taking their time/due diligence etc because, however much this matters to us, it matters a lot more to them.
Surely part of the decision-making process to get rid of Hurst was identifying who they think could do a better job? This wasn't knee-jerk, it was considered over a period of time, particularly during the last 2 weeks of his tenure.
I'm not saying we should have had someone in place behind his back, because I do think that is disrespectful. Surely we had a list of names to approach, or at least a list of names which we compared against the applications that flooded in over the first few days.
Although Jason said 2 weeks ago that they had been looking at this for 6 weeks, I don't imagine for one second that they could have foreseen the results/poor performances this season.
They're taking their time/due diligence etc because, however much this matters to us, it matters a lot more to them.
"Although Jason said 2 weeks ago that they had been looking at this for 6 weeks" Are you saying that in mid-September (around 9 matches) Jason Stockwood/Board started looking at a replacement for PH . Is there a link to the 6 and 2-week statements please?
The proof of the pudding will be in the eating when we see who we appoint. Taking your time doesn't necessarily equate to a popular or indeed good appointment, but we wont even know that till the end of the season and where we find ourselves.
It's a great shame we are so low in the league, and that and our history of decline over 20 years will weigh heavily on prospective managers despite the boards good intentions.
Getting started on the journey the owners envisage is always going to be the hardest part due to the negative baggage we are carrying but this appointment will be their first attempt to shape the playing and managerial side so it will be fascinating to see who they get.
"Although Jason said 2 weeks ago that they had been looking at this for 6 weeks" Are you saying that in mid-September (around 9 matches) Jason Stockwood/Board started looking at a replacement for PH . Is there a link to the 6 and 2-week statements please?
Tweet 1718339659011383463 will appear here...
35 secs in he mentions it was a 6 week process to sack Hurst.
There's another one where he mentions working with Gareth Jennings for a few weeks before Hurst sacking, looking at the next moves.
"Although Jason said 2 weeks ago that they had been looking at this for 6 weeks" Are you saying that in mid-September (around 9 matches) Jason Stockwood/Board started looking at a replacement for PH . Is there a link to the 6 and 2-week statements please?
I'm not saying they should have drawn up a shortlist when they first started looking at things, but 6 weeks later when they finally took action, it's not unreasonable to expect them to have had an idea who they thought may do a better job, especially when they said they looked at it in much more depth over the final 2 weeks.
Jason said him and Andrew had been looking at the situation for 6 weeks on RH's Football Forum last week.
Maybe they’re not as panicky as everyone else? Would imagine they probably look at the fixtures and see 90pts to play for, so maybe if it takes a week longer than usual they’d likely sooner have the right person in their eyes appointed, than flapping and getting someone in now just to salvage a point or two in the short term.
The assumption being made by some, of course, is that we have no chance of getting even a point from the next couple of games. Maybe not everyone shares that view.
Although Jason said 2 weeks ago that they had been looking at this for 6 weeks, I don't imagine for one second that they could have foreseen the results/poor performances this season.
They're taking their time/due diligence etc because, however much this matters to us, it matters a lot more to them.
Indeed, and as per the first few words of my post I get it.
Interesting though as in the past Jason has referenced his admiration for the Brentford & Brighton models, both of whom have a really strong succession planning ethic.
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
"Although Jason said 2 weeks ago that they had been looking at this for 6 weeks" Are you saying that in mid-September (around 9 matches) Jason Stockwood/Board started looking at a replacement for PH . Is there a link to the 6 and 2-week statements please?
He stated that in his interview straight after sacking Hurst n Doig at Doncaster. He said that something was quite adding up between the data , the performances and the results and once highlighted they'd been monitoring it more closely over the 6 weeks prior to the sacking. As for the 2 weeks, that came from his interview to quash the red herring around "first team coach" and that he wanted expecting any announcements for at least "a couple of weeks".
Indeed, and as per the first few words of my post I get it.
Interesting though as in the past Jason has referenced his admiration for the Brentford & Brighton models, both of whom have a really strong succession planning ethic.
Very good point. De Zerbi came in at Brighton 10 days after Potter left for Chelsea. It's labour intensive but they are a shining example of how to scenario plan and it's paying off for them.
Whilst everything was going great under Potter, they knew De Zerbi was who they wanted if they needed a new manager. They approach the playing side in the same manner. Wanting and being able to get are two different things, but based on what Stockwood has said previously, I can't imagine that they would sack Hurst without having some names in mind.
Maybe they’re not as panicky as everyone else? Would imagine they probably look at the fixtures and see 90pts to play for, so maybe if it takes a week longer than usual they’d likely sooner have the right person in their eyes appointed, than flapping and getting someone in now just to salvage a point or two in the short term.
The assumption being made by some, of course, is that we have no chance of getting even a point from the next couple of games. Maybe not everyone shares that view.
Based on the last 5 completed seasons in this league, you need an average of 74 points to finish 7th and 81 points for automatic promotion.
Essentially, a team needs 1.61 PPG for a play-off place or 1.76 PPG for automatic promotion. After 16 games, we currently sit on 14 points which is 0.88 PPG, half the requirement for automatic promotion. If we have play-off form for the rest of the season, that would put us on 62 points at the end of the season which would be 1 point better than last seasons 11th place finish. Barrow finished 9th on 62 points, 13 points behind Mansfield and Salford in 7th and 8th.
If we maintain the current form for the rest of the month, and then have play-off form for the rest of the season, we end up with 60 points. On average, 62 points gets you a 12th place finish in League 2 which is 1.34 PPG over the course of the season. If we maintain that average from now, we finish on 54 points or 52 points if we maintain our current average until the end of the month and then have mid-table form for the rest of the season. 52 points hasn't got any team relegated in the last 5 years, but it is often squeaky bum time going into the last month of the season.
The reassuring thing is that we don't require play-off or promotion form to stay up at this point, and if we get to the halfway point at our current average, we still don't need play-off or promotion form to stay up. Hopefully someone can start getting a tune out of this squad with some decent additions to follow in January.
Based on the last 5 completed seasons in this league, you need an average of 74 points to finish 7th and 81 points for automatic promotion.
Essentially, a team needs 1.61 PPG for a play-off place or 1.76 PPG for automatic promotion. After 16 games, we currently sit on 14 points which is 0.88 PPG, half the requirement for automatic promotion. If we have play-off form for the rest of the season, that would put us on 62 points at the end of the season which would be 1 point better than last seasons 11th place finish. Barrow finished 9th on 62 points, 13 points behind Mansfield and Salford in 7th and 8th.
If we maintain the current form for the rest of the month, and then have play-off form for the rest of the season, we end up with 60 points. On average, 62 points gets you a 12th place finish in League 2 which is 1.34 PPG over the course of the season. If we maintain that average from now, we finish on 54 points or 52 points if we maintain our current average until the end of the month and then have mid-table form for the rest of the season. 52 points hasn't got any team relegated in the last 5 years, but it is often squeaky bum time going into the last month of the season.
The reassuring thing is that we don't require play-off or promotion form to stay up at this point, and if we get to the halfway point at our current average, we still don't need play-off or promotion form to stay up. Hopefully someone can start getting a tune out of this squad with some decent additions to follow in January.
I very much doubt the next few results will cause the recruitment of a new manager to be sped up or slowed down.
If you fed all of the interviews and articles of our current chairperson into an AI machine, then asked it to summarise them into three words I suspect the answer given would be
35 secs in he mentions it was a 6 week process to sack Hurst.
There's another one where he mentions working with Gareth Jennings for a few weeks before Hurst sacking, looking at the next moves.
Thanks for that, the audio was poor, and my old ears struggled. I read it that he/they were looking at the situation (starting mid September--my calculation) for 6 weeks and then in earnest the last two with the tech advisor Gareth Jennings. That's about the time scale when people were voicing concerns on the fishy. JS leaves the impression, not in so many words, that in the last two weeks things became more earnest/intense. One thing I suppose with a Tech Adviser, but not a board member, is you can task him with a look-see for a replacement just in case the wheels come off and a trigger is pulled. Usually, for a leaky situation, 1878 has kept it tight. Which gives the rumour mill the impetus to say "nothing is being done"
So 10 wins and we are ok. If said quickly, no problems.
We’re currently averaging a win every 5.3 games, so based on that ratio we’re due just another 5.6 wins over the course of our next 30 matches. Let’s be positive and round that up to 6, shall we?
On the other hand, a pessimist might point out that our win ratio is skewed by slightly better form at the start of the season, and over the course of the last 10 games we’ve won only 1, which extrapolates to just another 3 wins all season, but not me…
Thanks for that, the audio was poor, and my old ears struggled. I read it that he/they were looking at the situation (starting mid September--my calculation) for 6 weeks and then in earnest the last two with the tech advisor Gareth Jennings. That's about the time scale when people were voicing concerns on the fishy. JS leaves the impression, not in so many words, that in the last two weeks things became more earnest/intense. One thing I suppose with a Tech Adviser, but not a board member, is you can task him with a look-see for a replacement just in case the wheels come off and a trigger is pulled. Usually, for a leaky situation, 1878 has kept it tight. Which gives the rumour mill the impetus to say "nothing is being done"
Bud, Gareth Jennings is on the board, as a non paid director.
His background is worth a look, he's been involved in high level football for a number of years, certainly knows his onions and I'm led to believe we actually "recruited" his services if you listen to some early Stockwood interviews.
We’re currently averaging a win every 5.3 games, so based on that ratio we’re due just another 5.6 wins over the course of our next 30 matches. Let’s be positive and round that up to 6, shall we?
On the other hand, a pessimist might point out that our win ratio is skewed by slightly better form at the start of the season, and over the course of the last 10 games we’ve won only 1, which extrapolates to just another 3 wins all season, but not me…
Yep. They can be extrapolated any way you like to suit your desired agenda. The only thing that matters is the league table, which gives a precise position at any given time, and will of course be updated as ours and the other 23 teams' fortunes fluctuate. Everything else is just guesswork; enjoyable to some I admit.
Maybe they’re not as panicky as everyone else? Would imagine they probably look at the fixtures and see 90pts to play for, so maybe if it takes a week longer than usual they’d likely sooner have the right person in their eyes appointed, than flapping and getting someone in now just to salvage a point or two in the short term.
The assumption being made by some, of course, is that we have no chance of getting even a point from the next couple of games. Maybe not everyone shares that view.
My slight concern with that approach is that it may well be the way in the corporate world to bide your time and get the right appointee, but football moves quickly and we don't want to get marooned at the bottom of the table.
Not saying we are fiddling while Rome burns, but it's hard to get out of a slump once you're in one, and the longer the new guy has, the better.
My slight concern with that approach is that it may well be the way in the corporate world to bide your time and get the right appointee, but football moves quickly and we don't want to get marooned at the bottom of the table.
Not saying we are fiddling while Rome burns, but it's hard to get out of a slump once you're in one, and the longer the new guy has, the better.
Which is pretty much what happened in the lead up to PHs dismissal. We continued to lose games in a depressingly familiar way.
Justin Cochrane could be an interesting choice, not sure he would want to.move up north though, seems to have spent all his time in the south.
The overwhelming majority of his professional appearances were at Crewe and Rotherham. Before he went to Brentford, he was a coach at Manchester United.
If he fancies an opportunity in management, I doubt a phobia of the north would be a blocker.
I don't understand why people think we would have someone appointed within 2 weeks.
We are not Brighton. They will not interview people out of work unless they felt they were really hard done by. They'll have a list of managers that are likely under contract, and they'd already have a longlist, and they'd actively go out, see who's interested, interview, and make a decision. They also lost their manager through good performance, and it's less disrespectful to approach things when you probably have a shared understanding that the manager would probably be interested in going.
The difference is many interviewees will be out of work. We cannot go and take Rotherham's or Ipswich manager. We may be able to poach from the non league. So you'd probably have maybe 5 - 6 poachable options, but you'd supplement it with coaches who want to be managers (you won't know this until the job vacancy goes in, and Arteta for example demonstrates there may be good options amongst the inexperienced), and those out of work, some who could be hard done by, or some that didn't cut it in the leagues above, but may work in league 2. Ultimately, the level of uncertainty in your potential pool of candidates is greater.
Secondly, it is dumb just to go for a manager based on their record. That's how you end up with a Holloway or Newell (solid records at Blackpool and Luton). You have to kick the tires, put out feelers to contacts on how they actually are (a bully boy wouldn't work in a low confidence situation). You may have good candidates that have some question marks, and you'll want to grill those candidates on "wtf went on here, how did this one go so wrong?" and see whether they're reflective and learn from bad situations or blame everyone but themselves. Interviews are key, and you'd probably want to interview at least 10 people, arrange them in if you can (not everyone is free every day), and then pull it all together, and put them out, rule out the flops, and really challenge each other on the best picks so you're not going with hunches.
I absolutely would not go back to the days of 3 day later appointments. Something more professional is needed to ensure we don't get a quick candidate, but a good candidate.
I don't understand why people think we would have someone appointed within 2 weeks.
We are not Brighton. They will not interview people out of work unless they felt they were really hard done by. They'll have a list of managers that are likely under contract, and they'd already have a longlist, and they'd actively go out, see who's interested, interview, and make a decision. They also lost their manager through good performance, and it's less disrespectful to approach things when you probably have a shared understanding that the manager would probably be interested in going.
The difference is many interviewees will be out of work. We cannot go and take Rotherham's or Ipswich manager. We may be able to poach from the non league. So you'd probably have maybe 5 - 6 poachable options, but you'd supplement it with coaches who want to be managers (you won't know this until the job vacancy goes in, and Arteta for example demonstrates there may be good options amongst the inexperienced), and those out of work, some who could be hard done by, or some that didn't cut it in the leagues above, but may work in league 2. Ultimately, the level of uncertainty in your potential pool of candidates is greater.
Secondly, it is dumb just to go for a manager based on their record. That's how you end up with a Holloway or Newell (solid records at Blackpool and Luton). You have to kick the tires, put out feelers to contacts on how they actually are (a bully boy wouldn't work in a low confidence situation). You may have good candidates that have some question marks, and you'll want to grill those candidates on "wtf went on here, how did this one go so wrong?" and see whether they're reflective and learn from bad situations or blame everyone but themselves. Interviews are key, and you'd probably want to interview at least 10 people, arrange them in if you can (not everyone is free every day), and then pull it all together, and put them out, rule out the flops, and really challenge each other on the best picks so you're not going with hunches.
I absolutely would not go back to the days of 3 day later appointments. Something more professional is needed to ensure we don't get a quick candidate, but a good candidate.
Completely agree! Everyone is so impatient nowadays in every walk of life, even down to convenience food because it’s quicker than cooking. Footballs the same, everyone wants success and they want it now. Fans want a new manager and they want it now. No thought goes to the actual process, and then the logistics of it, the new manager moving house or commuting, changing the kids school mid term, a job for the wife, what assistant they want and their logistics. There’s so much to consider, and that’s even after the successful candidate has been decided. It’s not like we’ve got a make or break relegation play off game to play in a few days, there’s 30 (?) games left to play, lots of time, no panic just yet.
"Falls to Arnold... Arnold! That's it! Thats it! He's sealed it! Grimsby Town are back in the football league!!! Just a minute to go and Nathan Arnold makes it 3-1! Look at the scenes behind the goal! Look at the relief! The agony is finally over!!!"
John Tondeur - Wembley Stadium Sunday 15th May 2016
People are thinking it’d be done in two weeks because the chairman has told us he’d been considering a post-Hurst future for a few weeks before he sacked him. I don’t think two weeks is an unreasonable time frame given the position we’re in.
I have the same worry Ginny has and am starting to wonder if they set a deadline for applications or something. Just bloody get on with it!
Bud, Gareth Jennings is on the board, as a non paid director.
His background is worth a look, he's been involved in high level football for a number of years, certainly knows his onions and I'm led to believe we actually "recruited" his services if you listen to some early Stockwood interviews.
Yes, he was made a board member at the start of the season. Also, he is, in tandem, Technical Director of the UAE Pro League. I wonder which appointment makes him the most money.?
Completely agree! Everyone is so impatient nowadays in every walk of life, even down to convenience food because it’s quicker than cooking. Footballs the same, everyone wants success and they want it now. Fans want a new manager and they want it now. No thought goes to the actual process, and then the logistics of it, the new manager moving house or commuting, changing the kids school mid term, a job for the wife, what assistant they want and their logistics. There’s so much to consider, and that’s even after the successful candidate has been decided. It’s not like we’ve got a make or break relegation play off game to play in a few days, there’s 30 (?) games left to play, lots of time, no panic just yet.
When PH returned there were plenty of games left too but we still went down .....the damage was done.
Just watched Shaun Pearsons pre match....bigged up Morecombe ....pointed out their current form and strengths and how it will be difficult........yet hopes the crowd get behind the team and save any negativity till after the final whistle if its deserved. I hope for Shaun whatever side and approach he adopts it works as he gives his all to the club...just a shame he has adopted his former mentors style of interview.
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When PH returned there were plenty of games left too but we still went down .....the damage was done.
Just watched Shaun Pearsons pre match....bigged up Morecombe ....pointed out their current form and strengths and how it will be difficult........yet hopes the crowd get behind the team and save any negativity till after the final whistle if its deserved. I hope for Shaun whatever side and approach he adopts it works as he gives his all to the club...just a shame he has adopted his former mentors style of interview.
Not sure what you want to hear from Shaun.as long as he's saying the right thing in the dressing room.He can say what he wants to us. It's a media thing, it's not a normal conversation
Not sure what you want to hear from Shaun.as long as he's saying the right thing in the dressing room.He can say what he wants to us. It's a media thing, it's not a normal conversation
How about.... We know what Morecombe are about but we are focussed on our performance and as a group are determined to go out and show the qualities we have and if we apply ourselves correctly I know only too well the fantastic support will back us to the end...
2023/24 DLWDDWDLLLWDLLLLWDDDWDLLWLDLLDWDDWLLDWLWLWL but not NLN 😁 2022/23LDWDWWDWLLDWWDLLLDLWLLWLWLLWDDLDWWDDDLLWDWLWLW 2021/22 WDWWWWDLWWWWLLLWLLDLWLLWWDWWWLWDLWWDWWWDLWD play offs WWW Promoted 🥳 2020/21 LLDWWLDLDWLWLLLDLWLLDLLDLLLWLLLDDDDWDDDLWLWLWL .. hello darkness my old friend 2019/20 WDLDWWLDLWWLLLDLDLDLDDWWDLLWDDWWL WLLW - ended 2018/19 LWDDLLLLLLWWDWLLLWDWLWWWWLLLLWWWWDLLLDDLLDLWLW Hello Scunny
I don't understand why people think we would have someone appointed within 2 weeks.
We are not Brighton. They will not interview people out of work unless they felt they were really hard done by. They'll have a list of managers that are likely under contract, and they'd already have a longlist, and they'd actively go out, see who's interested, interview, and make a decision. They also lost their manager through good performance, and it's less disrespectful to approach things when you probably have a shared understanding that the manager would probably be interested in going.
The difference is many interviewees will be out of work. We cannot go and take Rotherham's or Ipswich manager. We may be able to poach from the non league. So you'd probably have maybe 5 - 6 poachable options, but you'd supplement it with coaches who want to be managers (you won't know this until the job vacancy goes in, and Arteta for example demonstrates there may be good options amongst the inexperienced), and those out of work, some who could be hard done by, or some that didn't cut it in the leagues above, but may work in league 2. Ultimately, the level of uncertainty in your potential pool of candidates is greater.
Secondly, it is dumb just to go for a manager based on their record. That's how you end up with a Holloway or Newell (solid records at Blackpool and Luton). You have to kick the tires, put out feelers to contacts on how they actually are (a bully boy wouldn't work in a low confidence situation). You may have good candidates that have some question marks, and you'll want to grill those candidates on "wtf went on here, how did this one go so wrong?" and see whether they're reflective and learn from bad situations or blame everyone but themselves. Interviews are key, and you'd probably want to interview at least 10 people, arrange them in if you can (not everyone is free every day), and then pull it all together, and put them out, rule out the flops, and really challenge each other on the best picks so you're not going with hunches.
I absolutely would not go back to the days of 3 day later appointments. Something more professional is needed to ensure we don't get a quick candidate, but a good candidate.
Great post and an important reality check I think.
How about.... We know what Morecombe are about but we are focussed on our performance and as a group are determined to go out and show the qualities we have and if we apply ourselves correctly I know only too well the fantastic support will back us to the end...
You are thinking too deep into things that don't matter. Holloway was king of spin, meant not a thing. If you want someone media savvy we may as well appoint Eddie Hearn. Get real, demand on the pitch not in the presser
I don't understand why people think we would have someone appointed within 2 weeks.
We are not Brighton. They will not interview people out of work unless they felt they were really hard done by. They'll have a list of managers that are likely under contract, and they'd already have a longlist, and they'd actively go out, see who's interested, interview, and make a decision. They also lost their manager through good performance, and it's less disrespectful to approach things when you probably have a shared understanding that the manager would probably be interested in going.
The difference is many interviewees will be out of work. We cannot go and take Rotherham's or Ipswich manager. We may be able to poach from the non league. So you'd probably have maybe 5 - 6 poachable options, but you'd supplement it with coaches who want to be managers (you won't know this until the job vacancy goes in, and Arteta for example demonstrates there may be good options amongst the inexperienced), and those out of work, some who could be hard done by, or some that didn't cut it in the leagues above, but may work in league 2. Ultimately, the level of uncertainty in your potential pool of candidates is greater.
Secondly, it is dumb just to go for a manager based on their record. That's how you end up with a Holloway or Newell (solid records at Blackpool and Luton). You have to kick the tires, put out feelers to contacts on how they actually are (a bully boy wouldn't work in a low confidence situation). You may have good candidates that have some question marks, and you'll want to grill those candidates on "wtf went on here, how did this one go so wrong?" and see whether they're reflective and learn from bad situations or blame everyone but themselves. Interviews are key, and you'd probably want to interview at least 10 people, arrange them in if you can (not everyone is free every day), and then pull it all together, and put them out, rule out the flops, and really challenge each other on the best picks so you're not going with hunches.
I absolutely would not go back to the days of 3 day later appointments. Something more professional is needed to ensure we don't get a quick candidate, but a good candidate.
Good post Ancient .
Nicky Law I thought seemed pretty bad aswell we really went downhill that season fast -- wholesale changes with players coming in who were no better than what we had ; ended up a mess I'll never forget the final day at Tranmere that season . I thought things couldn't get any worse .........
How about.... We know what Morecombe are about but we are focussed on our performance and as a group are determined to go out and show the qualities we have and if we apply ourselves correctly I know only too well the fantastic support will back us to the end...
He said all that last week before the Slough game, and look how that went.
I don't know why anyone puts any emphasis at all on pre-match interviews they make no difference whatsoever.
I don't understand why people think we would have someone appointed within 2 weeks.
We are not Brighton. They will not interview people out of work unless they felt they were really hard done by. They'll have a list of managers that are likely under contract, and they'd already have a longlist, and they'd actively go out, see who's interested, interview, and make a decision. They also lost their manager through good performance, and it's less disrespectful to approach things when you probably have a shared understanding that the manager would probably be interested in going.
The difference is many interviewees will be out of work. We cannot go and take Rotherham's or Ipswich manager. We may be able to poach from the non league. So you'd probably have maybe 5 - 6 poachable options, but you'd supplement it with coaches who want to be managers (you won't know this until the job vacancy goes in, and Arteta for example demonstrates there may be good options amongst the inexperienced), and those out of work, some who could be hard done by, or some that didn't cut it in the leagues above, but may work in league 2. Ultimately, the level of uncertainty in your potential pool of candidates is greater.
Secondly, it is dumb just to go for a manager based on their record. That's how you end up with a Holloway or Newell (solid records at Blackpool and Luton). You have to kick the tires, put out feelers to contacts on how they actually are (a bully boy wouldn't work in a low confidence situation). You may have good candidates that have some question marks, and you'll want to grill those candidates on "wtf went on here, how did this one go so wrong?" and see whether they're reflective and learn from bad situations or blame everyone but themselves. Interviews are key, and you'd probably want to interview at least 10 people, arrange them in if you can (not everyone is free every day), and then pull it all together, and put them out, rule out the flops, and really challenge each other on the best picks so you're not going with hunches.
I absolutely would not go back to the days of 3 day later appointments. Something more professional is needed to ensure we don't get a quick candidate, but a good candidate.
Totally agree on all that but even ensuring a good candidate doesn't ensure a good outcome, just a better chance of a good outcome.This is football, the variables are so great and so many.
Just watched Shaun Pearsons pre match....bigged up Morecombe ....pointed out their current form and strengths and how it will be difficult........yet hopes the crowd get behind the team and save any negativity till after the final whistle if its deserved. I hope for Shaun whatever side and approach he adopts it works as he gives his all to the club...just a shame he has adopted his former mentors style of interview.
Thought Shaun gave a good interview. I like the guy and he always puts a smile on my face. He comes across as honest and like Hurst a man of integrity. He’s a good motivator in the dressing room and well liked. I doubt he had much in the way of tactics and in match decisions whilst Hurst was here. I think some of the criticism he received from some quarters after the Slough match was unreasonable. Let’s face it, it would take a miracle to turn this side round in one week and one game. Do I think he should be given a crack at the management job? Absolutely not. But he will be doing the best he can, with what he has and we should be doing the same on Saturday.
I think she'd definitely set a solid example. A proven manager who I think would probably do well in the men's game and command respect for what she has done.
I feel she might not want it though:
"You dedicate so many hours to this job and I've given it everything I can," added Hayes.
Hayes has a five-year-old son and has cited family time and the strain on her as an important factor in making the decision to leave Chelsea.
"I've been in the post for 12 years and I've dedicated my life to this place," she said. "I drive four hours to and from this place 6 days a week for 12 years. I have a five-year-old that needs more of his mummy, for sure.
"I'm a mum and not many football managers sit up here and talk about that in the same way."
"This is not a selfish decision, it's a selfless decision. It's about putting first other things in my life and I'm ready for that."
Actually, we might have missed out. What do these felicitations offer that we cannot:
Yes, he was made a board member at the start of the season. Also, he is, in tandem, Technical Director of the UAE Pro League. I wonder which appointment makes him the most money.?
1 of the more ridiculous/stupid/disgraceful/libellous posts I've seen on here in recent times
You are thinking too deep into things that don't matter. Holloway was king of spin, meant not a thing. If you want someone media savvy we may as well appoint Eddie Hearn. Get real, demand on the pitch not in the presser
Meanwhile you don't get the importance of sports psychology at all. 100% SP should beat his chest and spell it out let Morecambe worry about us that should be the focus.Its not spin its being positive and I hope to Christ whoever the new Boss is that's what he brings I've had enough of the negative. UTM
I don't understand why people think we would have someone appointed within 2 weeks.
We are not Brighton. They will not interview people out of work unless they felt they were really hard done by. They'll have a list of managers that are likely under contract, and they'd already have a longlist, and they'd actively go out, see who's interested, interview, and make a decision. They also lost their manager through good performance, and it's less disrespectful to approach things when you probably have a shared understanding that the manager would probably be interested in going.
The difference is many interviewees will be out of work. We cannot go and take Rotherham's or Ipswich manager. We may be able to poach from the non league. So you'd probably have maybe 5 - 6 poachable options, but you'd supplement it with coaches who want to be managers (you won't know this until the job vacancy goes in, and Arteta for example demonstrates there may be good options amongst the inexperienced), and those out of work, some who could be hard done by, or some that didn't cut it in the leagues above, but may work in league 2. Ultimately, the level of uncertainty in your potential pool of candidates is greater.
Secondly, it is dumb just to go for a manager based on their record. That's how you end up with a Holloway or Newell (solid records at Blackpool and Luton). You have to kick the tires, put out feelers to contacts on how they actually are (a bully boy wouldn't work in a low confidence situation). You may have good candidates that have some question marks, and you'll want to grill those candidates on "wtf went on here, how did this one go so wrong?" and see whether they're reflective and learn from bad situations or blame everyone but themselves. Interviews are key, and you'd probably want to interview at least 10 people, arrange them in if you can (not everyone is free every day), and then pull it all together, and put them out, rule out the flops, and really challenge each other on the best picks so you're not going with hunches.
I absolutely would not go back to the days of 3 day later appointments. Something more professional is needed to ensure we don't get a quick candidate, but a good candidate.
Good post that, would be a bit worried though if “the process” left Town with 10 candidates to interview but I get what you mean.
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
No disrespect to the club we all love but the USA ladies national team is a bigger job and from her interview in the media today better for work life balance.
Shame though as she knows her stuff, has a great record and has a brilliant reputation as a coach:
If things were different and we recruited Emma Hayes the coverage we’d get would make the media coverage look like a 15 second flash ad.
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
No disrespect to the club we all love but the USA ladies national team is a bigger job and from her interview in the media today better for work life balance.
Shame though as she knows her stuff, has a great record and has a brilliant reputation as a coach:
If things were different and we recruited Emma Hayes the coverage we’d get would make the media coverage look like a 15 second flash ad.
I would love nothing more than to nail my colours to Shaun's mast...oooeeerrr missus But Slough showed me little and pre match interview was less than inspiring. You just shouldn't big up the opposition ahead of an important home game .don't disrespect them by all means.but don't big them up.
2023/24 DLWDDWDLLLWDLLLLWDDDWDLLWLDLLDWDDWLLDWLWLWL but not NLN 😁 2022/23LDWDWWDWLLDWWDLLLDLWLLWLWLLWDDLDWWDDDLLWDWLWLW 2021/22 WDWWWWDLWWWWLLLWLLDLWLLWWDWWWLWDLWWDWWWDLWD play offs WWW Promoted 🥳 2020/21 LLDWWLDLDWLWLLLDLWLLDLLDLLLWLLLDDDDWDDDLWLWLWL .. hello darkness my old friend 2019/20 WDLDWWLDLWWLLLDLDLDLDDWWDLLWDDWWL WLLW - ended 2018/19 LWDDLLLLLLWWDWLLLWDWLWWWWLLLLWWWWDLLLDDLLDLWLW Hello Scunny
How about.... We know what Morecombe are about but we are focussed on our performance and as a group are determined to go out and show the qualities we have and if we apply ourselves correctly I know only too well the fantastic support will back us to the end...
Well, I suppose it wasn't Churchillian enough for some " We shall fight them in mid-field in the corners, and in the throw-ins, in the penalty area and we shall never surrender, and even if this team, which I do not for a moment believe be subjugated and starved of goal scoring opportunities, then our Fans will come to the rescue and carry on with a mighty roar." That do you?
Fans aren't thick. We don't need softening up in pre match interviews in case the opposition are better than us and take the points. What we would like to know is what we have been doing in training to improve the way we play.
Regardless of pre match interviews, Churchillian or otherwise, we need to see the players pull together and put more effort in than we have seen lately. Regarding the stand in managers it would be nice to see some evidence of a more organised team who know what they are trying to do, and use subs early enough if necessary to affect the outcome. We will know this afternoon if we have made any progress and will see for ourselves how good or otherwise Morecambe are.
Fans aren't thick. We don't need softening up in pre match interviews in case the opposition are better than us and take the points. What we would like to know is what we have been doing in training to improve the way we play.
Regardless of pre match interviews, Churchillian or otherwise, we need to see the players pull together and put more effort in than we have seen lately. Regarding the stand in managers it would be nice to see some evidence of a more organised team who know what they are trying to do, and use subs early enough if necessary to affect the outcome. We will know this afternoon if we have made any progress and will see for ourselves how good or otherwise Morecambe are.
Let’s tell the whole world on public radio that anyone can listen to or access what we’ve been doing every day in training. Right out the Pep Guardiola playbook that is… 😆
This reminds me of when you tolerate a bad habit in the honeymoon phase of a relationship but by the time your in its final throes it drives you absolutely mental. For what it’s worth I think far too much is being made of it personally but each to their own I guess. The idea that it has a big effect on either players or fans (apart from those complaining) is a bit far fetched to me. I think of all the press conferences and pre match interviews held this weekend or any previous, most managers will talk about the oppositions strengths. It’s all part of the rhetoric and manager patter and is often in response to a specific question.
“I know writers who use subtext and they’re all cowards.” –Garth Marenghi
Let’s tell the whole world on public radio that anyone can listen to or access what we’ve been doing every day in training. Right out the Pep Guardiola playbook that is… 😆
That's why I'm not a football manager! Regardless I hope to see some improvement today in movement off the ball, set pieces and a more cohesive approach to what we are trying to do.
Fans aren't thick. We don't need softening up in pre match interviews in case the opposition are better than us and take the points. What we would like to know is what we have been doing in training to improve the way we play.
Regardless of pre match interviews, Churchillian or otherwise, we need to see the players pull together and put more effort in than we have seen lately. Regarding the stand in managers it would be nice to see some evidence of a more organised team who know what they are trying to do, and use subs early enough if necessary to affect the outcome. We will know this afternoon if we have made any progress and will see for ourselves how good or otherwise Morecambe are.
To be fair they used 2 subs at half time last week which is a complete change from Hurst and it did improve us (a low bar I know) and we equalised so that did effect the outcome.
To be fair they used 2 subs at half time last week which is a complete change from Hurst and it did improve us (a low bar I know) and we equalised so that did effect the outcome.
A good point. I watched the stream of the game and it's fair to say that while the first half was a continuation of the misery of the recent spell there was a small but noticeable change with the subs. Green brought the energy, Glennon much more effective than Eisa and Hunt just adding enough to make the midfield something approaching balanced. For the first time in a while I genuinely felt a goal was coming.
We still fell short on the day but if the new guy can bring some confidence and even half the belief that we did have we'll be ok.
To be fair they used 2 subs at half time last week which is a complete change from Hurst and it did improve us (a low bar I know) and we equalised so that did effect the outcome.
Good point. Let's hope it continues today if we need it.
As an aside, I wonder why Hurst was so reluctant to use subs to affect a game? We know he had a stubborn streak but you wouldn't do it just for that. In the modern game with players using so much energy it is surely a good thing to use all the subs available to you?
Be very interesting to see what sort of a tactician with subs and our general play the new manager is.
This season, I suspect that Hurst wasn't overly keen to bring on subs because he knew that there wasn't really a great deal of quality on the bench. Which is his responsibility, of course, injuries aside.
Sometimes it's more just a case of getting fresh legs on than quality, even on a few hot days he would leave subs until late.
Totally right, all it takes is one tackle or one run for someone to fire the team up. Imagine being 2-1 down and seeing Harry coming on knowing he's going to cover every single blade of grass.
The win today was much needed; we would have been a point above the bottom 2 with a loss, and I feel much more confident about Tuesday. At what point do Davies and Pearson become serious contenders?
The win today was much needed; we would have been a point above the bottom 2 with a loss, and I feel much more confident about Tuesday. At what point do Davies and Pearson become serious contenders?
It’s not just the win today it’s the manner of the performance. They were all going the extra yard today . I’ve not seen that this season . The owners have now got a tricky decision
Genuine question. If the team pulled off a decent run of form and the points began to tot up, wouldn't it be prudent to hold off on any appointment in the short term, to see how things progress? The fact we just outplayed and overturned the leagues in form team, in the manner in which we did, surely should work in Pearson and Davies favour?
Why look any further, there is no-one that could have gotten any more out of those players today . They were fired up to a man and played some excellent attacking football at times against one of the in form teams . Shaun and Ben have made changes and they have made a massive difference, confidence must be high after that performance with two or three games coming up that could really improve our league and cup showing. Sign them up imo.
Justine Cochrane is also a name just appeared in the betting and in to 10-1.
Had never heard of him but his CV looks the sort we should be looking at.
He was one of the first names put forward on this, or one of the Manager threads, so Red Cross for not digesting every bit of information put forward re our prospective new Manager.
The win today was much needed; we would have been a point above the bottom 2 with a loss, and I feel much more confident about Tuesday. At what point do Davies and Pearson become serious contenders?
Why look any further, there is no-one that could have gotten any more out of those players today . They were fired up to a man and played some excellent attacking football at times against one of the in form teams . Shaun and Ben have made changes and they have made a massive difference, confidence must be high after that performance with two or three games coming up that could really improve our league and cup showing. Sign them up imo.
No, no and no. Promoting from within has never worked for us, they have won just one game, that doesn't make them world beaters. We need a proper manager, preferably one who has managed in at least League Two and who has shown in the past that he is capable of pulling a team round from a bad spell. Neither of these two have managed a League Two side before. Just winning one game should not make them favourites to get the job.
Why do we need to be choosing at this point? We were t*rd last week and good today. We won by a goal. The players did what they should. Just keep doing what we are and see where we are Wednesday.
It’s not just the win today it’s the manner of the performance. They were all going the extra yard today . I’ve not seen that this season . The owners have now got a tricky decision
I remember that we made the mistake of overlooking Graham Rodger who had a good caretaker spell in favour of Nicky Law.
I do think the dynamics of being in temporary charge are a lot different though. When you are in temporary charge, you can take those shackles off a bit more because you aren't quite as accountable for the outcome.
Today, at the very least, has bought the board valuable time. JS stated that it was going to be a long process but you would think a loss and poor performance today and that would have been expedited.
Today, we were so much better and with Slough midweek and FGR at the weekend, definitely 2 winnable games, we could be in a more enticing position for any prospective manager.
Well done to Shaun and Ben for today and I feel comfortable going into the next 2 with them in charge riding the high of not only finally getting a win but a very good performance.
The win today was much needed; we would have been a point above the bottom 2 with a loss, and I feel much more confident about Tuesday. At what point do Davies and Pearson become serious contenders?
They have had two games in charge, one where we were crap and one where we looked better going forward but still poor defensively.
They have possibly two more games in charge but I would still prefer an outside choice coming in.
Genuine question. If the team pulled off a decent run of form and the points began to tot up, wouldn't it be prudent to hold off on any appointment in the short term, to see how things progress? The fact we just outplayed and overturned the leagues in form team, in the manner in which we did, surely should work in Pearson and Davies favour?
Trying to look at things dispassionately, Ben and Shaun have just got a better tune out of the team - in two weeks - than the previous (and much respected by me) guy was capable of after two years.
So they're doing something right, obviously. If they were to remain unbeaten as a management duo whilst the "process" of identifying a future manager completes, I would imagine JS and AP might well adopt the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" approach. (And be in a position to streamline/adjust that process for the future...we all learn by doing.)
It would be perverse to appoint a new manager if the interim team are delivering the goods, surely. The fans would be massively behind Ben and Shaun too, in those circumstances.
I'll back the owners whatever they decide, but I live in the tentative hope that the Morecambe game signals an upturn in this season's fortunes.
The win today was much needed; we would have been a point above the bottom 2 with a loss, and I feel much more confident about Tuesday. At what point do Davies and Pearson become serious contenders?
A couple more performances like yesterday and I wouldn't be surprised to see them get it. 14/1 (SP) and 33/1 (BD) at Vic/Parimatch seems a bit of value. (presume they pay dead heat if it's a joint gig?)
Baldrick ! The only impression you can do is that of a man with no talent !! GTFC team 09/10 - Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick.
TBH I don't remember them as managers, may have been when I was away with the Army for 14 years, or when I was much younger. As for Sean and Ben, fair dues to them, but it's only one game and some people are seeing them as the Messiah already. The thing is, neither of them have any managerial experience, maybe Ben had a couple of days? I really don't think that we should be looking at two coaches taking the managers job when, according to JS, there are good quality, experienced managers interested in taking the job on. We are in a dangerous position in the league, and we need all the best people in the building to get us moving up.
TBH I don't remember them as managers, may have been when I was away with the Army for 14 years, or when I was much younger. As for Sean and Ben, fair dues to them, but it's only one game and some people are seeing them as the Messiah already. The thing is, neither of them have any managerial experience, maybe Ben had a couple of days? I really don't think that we should be looking at two coaches taking the managers job when, according to JS, there are good quality, experienced managers interested in taking the job on. We are in a dangerous position in the league, and we need all the best people in the building to get us moving up.
I was away with the Army. I was definitely aware of who the manager was and what he was doing.
No, no and no. Promoting from within has never worked for us, they have won just one game, that doesn't make them world beaters. We need a proper manager, preferably one who has managed in at least League Two and who has shown in the past that he is capable of pulling a team round from a bad spell. Neither of these two have managed a League Two side before. Just winning one game should not make them favourites to get the job.
What more do you want from a manager other than winning a game , strippers and a free pint at half time ? Your argument is illogical, it wasn't just a win yesterday, it was the manner of the victory. We outplayed a form team for the majority of the game, with some exciting attacking football after two games in charge . Throwing money at something doesn't always work, remember how you were wetting your pants when Hollowhead was appointed. Shaun and Ben know know these players inside out and obviously know how to get the best out of them ,as was apparent yesterday .I'd much rather they were left in charge than appoint a "NAME " , or untried manager at this level .Everyone has to start somewhere and an away draw plus a home win is a pretty good start.
If this pairing are getting results out of the squad then they have some very useful attributes, which is valuable. Is it because they are great coaches, or is it because these players are good and multiple candidates could get a tune out of them and we just needed a change at the top?
A more experienced manager would have demonstrated an ability to navigate a transfer window without buying duds and improving on the squad year on year. Something Davies and Pearson would be untested with. Even if it was to go down that line. Who's the boss, and who's the assistant?
Keeping with something working is the easy and safe option, but it does not mean it's without risk.
If however it takes 6 or more weeks to get our new man in place then look at how we have performed and i would like Ben and Shaun to be consided along with whoever the board want ti interview.Any less than that there not enough info gathered to consider them.
Over 36 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner. 68 Years following the Town
Why dont we just see. Play like we did on Saturday on Tuesday night, and we will rinse Slough. Away at FGR next Saturday a totally different challenge in every regard. See how that goes. Take stock then. Carry on the discussions behind the scenes and keep all options open. Squad and coaches bouyant, and team spirit galvanised. Strategy, done. Absolutely no need to rush or commit if you’ve just won and should win again on Tuesday.
If performances carry on like Saturday then they’ll have a very obvious case for the job. If anything they are in the best position and can give the best interview by showing what they can do with the squad as it is right now, that’s if they even want the job full time. I always thought when he was a player here that Shaun would end up in management just based on how he carried himself as a person, as a player on the pitch and as a leader of the team. John Mousinho retired as a player at Oxford in January of last year to take up the management position at Portsmouth because the Chief Executive at the club knew him as a person and the leadership qualities he possessed. Obviously they were in a much more comfortable position than us to take that risk but look at the way it’s paying off now. Anyone dismissing them because they’ve got no managerial experience is just nonsense, they’ve got 40 years of football experience combined. Davies playing at the highest level, flanked by some very experienced people on the coaching staff. If we repeat the performances of Saturday then they’ll force the hand of JS & AP imo.
5 days is a long time in football. Last Tuesday Sean and Ben weren't up to it was the main opinion and we need a new manager PDQ. Saturday they should be given a chance is the opinion now.
5 days and opinions change dramatically. Whatever the decision from JS & AP I'm sure it will be the right one. They inherited Hurst from Fenty or was that part of the deal for Hurst to be appointed by Fenty, we don't know the answer. However, Hurst got us into the NL and out at the first attempt, job done.
Now we move to wanting to be out of L2 and into L1, yes we have to avoid a relegation fight at this moment so we have to trust the judgement of 2 multi millionaires.
You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
I think we forget that if the owners do go with a new man we may well lose Ben and Shaun as they may well bring their own staff in .I personally think that would be a great loss also very expensive after paying Doig and Hurst off to pay these 2 off as well .I'm not saying it should be a reason to not appoint a new manager from outside .But I would wager it's on the owners mind
I think we forget that if the owners do go with a new man we may well lose Ben and Shaun as they may well bring their own staff in .I personally think that would be a great loss also very expensive after paying Doig and Hurst off to pay these 2 off as well .I'm not saying it should be a reason to not appoint a new manager from outside .But I would wager it's on the owners mind
it’s very uncommon that a League 2 manager has a full back room staff, normally at most a trusted assistant manager.
I think we forget that if the owners do go with a new man we may well lose Ben and Shaun as they may well bring their own staff in .I personally think that would be a great loss also very expensive after paying Doig and Hurst off to pay these 2 off as well .I'm not saying it should be a reason to not appoint a new manager from outside .But I would wager it's on the owners mind
I think they’ll be ok, Shaun is predominantly employed to scout teams and Ben looks like he’s well respected by the players and staff, he also knows how the club works a clever manager would leverage that.
If the worst came to the worst and they wasn’t part of the plan I suspect a pay off wouldn’t be anything like some would expect, but like many/all I don’t expect or want that to happen.
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
If they want the job they can fill out an application form and go through the process like everyone else. Not sure Pearson sounded overly keen when Matt Dean asked him before the Slough match anyway.
It struck me from his comments that Davies wasn't overly keen, either.
It's an all-encompassing role and they've both moved into the area to be near the families of their wives. Might be better for them to stay in their current roles with GTFC, gaining more experience and then potentially move into management when their kids are older?
We know Hurst always lived at home, but must have been difficult when he was working as a manager at clubs around the country. Massive amount of commuting involved, even if he was staying over near the clubs at times.
It struck me from his comments that Davies wasn't overly keen, either.
It's an all-encompassing role and they've both moved into the area to be near the families of their wives. Might be better for them to stay in their current roles with GTFC, gaining more experience and then potentially move into management when their kids are older?
We know Hurst always lived at home, but must have been difficult when he was working as a manager at clubs around the country. Massive amount of commuting involved, even if he was staying over near the clubs at times.
The responsibilities of the manager lay far beyond coaching a squad and picking a team. The tone of both Ben and Shaun in their respective interviews has been that they’re doing what they have been asked to do until a new manager is appointed.
People read far too much into interviews and whether people 'sound interested' in a job They are just being respectful - like politicians who say they have no ambition to be PM when 100% they do Ben and Shaun would snap owners' hands off if offered the post full time!
Reading this through it strikes me how fixed ideas are in peoples head.
What Shaun, Ben and the team (let's not forget those important people), delivered on Saturday was a reminder to everyone that we have a team capable. It was always true under PH, we'd just lost our way and needed a little shake. It wasn't so much the win, but the manner in how it came about that was impressive.
It seems there has been this underlying myth that BD and SP couldn't change our fortunes. They've been written off and labelled as inexperienced and not suited to the job at hand and so we NEED to appoint a manager ASAP if we're to stand any chance of beating FGR and Sutton, to not do so means we're going to get relegated.
I'm not saying BD and SP are the best candidates, how the hell would any of us know right now, but what I hope they've done is give everyone a reason to take a breath and calm down. It was a performance that I'd certainly be giving them chance to build on and keep moving with. If they keep delivering then why rush?
Keep assessing managerial options, have some conversations and put together a 'wishlist', but if we're getting the points under BD and SP and they play themselves into the job by amassing the wins then how is that a bad thing? If this performance turns out to be a fluke and they don't amass the points then we pull out the wishlist and appoint whoever has been deemed the most suited.
Granted it's only one (league) game and so it can't be considered a masterstroke just yet, but I think this is a good example of how removing emotion from the situation has enabled the owners to create the time and space they need to thoroughly assess what's out there, both from a headhunting position and from the applicants received.
Looking like Luke Williams is hot favourite for the Oxford job, not sure I’d like to be fishing in the same pond as Notts County next week if we can help it
It’s interesting that we now have three very winnable games coming up; Slough, FGR and Sutton. So it’s possible that a fortnight from now Shaun and Ben could have four wins and a draw out of five matches.
If so then it’s understandable that some will suggest they should be given the job. However, I would reiterate what several other posters have said. A crucial element of a managers job is the recruitment of players to fit a particular system. Of course we do have Joe at the club to help with recruitment but I do share concerns as to whether Shaun and Ben have the knowledge required on that score.
It’s interesting that we now have three very winnable games coming up; Slough, FGR and Sutton. So it’s possible that a fortnight from now Shaun and Ben could have four wins and a draw out of five matches.
If so then it’s understandable that some will suggest they should be given the job. However, I would reiterate what several other posters have said. A crucial element of a managers job is the recruitment of players to fit a particular system. Of course we do have Joe at the club to help with recruitment but I do share concerns as to whether Shaun and Ben have the knowledge required on that score.
Morecambe manager has a good record and and the league position does not flatter them. His interview was very honest and I was impressed. For me , he would be a good shout and he knows the league very well utm
Morecambe manager has a good record and and the league position does not flatter them. His interview was very honest and I was impressed. For me , he would be a good shout and he knows the league very well utm
The arrogant sharp object who said we won our cup final by beating Morecambe? Rather not.
You're taking that quote completely out of context. He said twice we were the better team and deserved to win.
I've seen so many people bleating about this. He clearly meant we had new caretaker managers in and it was a cup final in that context. Absolutely nothing to do with us playing Morecambe. And as you say he repeatedly said we were the better team and deserved to win and even said we deserved to be ahead at half time.
I've seen so many people bleating about this. He clearly meant we had new caretaker managers in and it was a cup final in that context. Absolutely nothing to do with us playing Morecambe. And as you say he repeatedly said we were the better team and deserved to win and even said we deserved to be ahead at half time.
He wasn't wrong either it was our cup final , 2 more coming up FGR & Sutton -- big big football matches that to an extent , could turn our season around .
Play like we did on Saturday and we have a decent chance of winning both surely ; hoping that performance puts some real confidence into the lads .
Reading this through it strikes me how fixed ideas are in peoples head.
What Shaun, Ben and the team (let's not forget those important people), delivered on Saturday was a reminder to everyone that we have a team capable. It was always true under PH, we'd just lost our way and needed a little shake. It wasn't so much the win, but the manner in how it came about that was impressive.
It seems there has been this underlying myth that BD and SP couldn't change our fortunes. They've been written off and labelled as inexperienced and not suited to the job at hand and so we NEED to appoint a manager ASAP if we're to stand any chance of beating FGR and Sutton, to not do so means we're going to get relegated.
I'm not saying BD and SP are the best candidates, how the hell would any of us know right now, but what I hope they've done is give everyone a reason to take a breath and calm down. It was a performance that I'd certainly be giving them chance to build on and keep moving with. If they keep delivering then why rush?
Keep assessing managerial options, have some conversations and put together a 'wishlist', but if we're getting the points under BD and SP and they play themselves into the job by amassing the wins then how is that a bad thing? If this performance turns out to be a fluke and they don't amass the points then we pull out the wishlist and appoint whoever has been deemed the most suited.
Granted it's only one (league) game and so it can't be considered a masterstroke just yet, but I think this is a good example of how removing emotion from the situation has enabled the owners to create the time and space they need to thoroughly assess what's out there, both from a headhunting position and from the applicants received.
Didn’t see Saturday, but sounds like the Jan window may not need be quite so busy. Pyke played mostly out wide for Shrewsbury (at a higher level), and lo and behold it seems he has his best game when played there instead of centrally? So do we just need two players in - a striker and a CB?
I’m sticking with Shaun I think . I think him and Ben ( with help from new coaches ) will get us over the 50 point mark this season . Massive U turn for me but I’ve got a gut feeling
If this pairing are getting results out of the squad then they have some very useful attributes, which is valuable. Is it because they are great coaches, or is it because these players are good and multiple candidates could get a tune out of them and we just needed a change at the top?
A more experienced manager would have demonstrated an ability to navigate a transfer window without buying duds and improving on the squad year on year. Something Davies and Pearson would be untested with. Even if it was to go down that line. Who's the boss, and who's the assistant?
Keeping with something working is the easy and safe option, but it does not mean it's without risk.
Why would you not want to keep with something that's working ,,
I’d like to explore options beyond someone with 6 months experience coaching the u15s, or as second assistant behind the bloke who just got sacked.
Not digging them out, but maybe that’s why we’re going through a proper recruitment process rather than giving the job out permanently off the back of a single win & a 1-1 draw with Slough.
I still want Healy but if we win the next 4 or 5 games then Ben and Shaun need to be on the short list.
Really interested in why you would want Healy? I'm not sold by him and nobody has managed to persuade me......yet.
I've watched Linfield matches, I've seen them against small teams and against the team challenging them for the title, and I don't see anything too impressive.
Nathan Rooney favourite still thought it could change at anytime. The one that grabs my interest is defintely Justin Cochrane, experience at big club environments, seems to be a top quality coach and only young.
Nathan Rooney favourite still thought it could change at anytime. The one that grabs my interest is defintely Justin Cochrane, experience at big club environments, seems to be a top quality coach and only young.
With the PR campaign he's been running and seemingly every social media analyst up his backside, I would assume he's continually puts a tenner on himself to keep his name up there.
Lincoln have just appointed Michael Skubala, another one with a lot of coaching experience but very little playing or management experience. Seems to be the way the vast majority of clubs are going and you’d imagine our future manager will probably have a similar type of background.
Really interested in why you would want Healy? I'm not sold by him and nobody has managed to persuade me......yet.
I've watched Linfield matches, I've seen them against small teams and against the team challenging them for the title, and I don't see anything too impressive.
How many have they won ?
His record is very good over a long period and i like the way he talks .
Over 36 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner. 68 Years following the Town
His record is very good over a long period and i like the way he talks .
I would argue any football manager worth their salt would win 75% - 85% of matches with Linfield. The game at the weekend against the biggest challenger they were played off the park.
I would argue any football manager worth their salt would win 75% - 85% of matches with Linfield. The game at the weekend against the biggest challenger they were played off the park.
His football is similar to Hurst.
In a parallel universe, we beat Bradford and someone came in for Hurst and Doig. We would have been second in the league, so would the board have chosen to shake things up a little bit or looked for a manager just like Hurst?
Lincoln appoint Michael Skubala as new manager,no me neither.
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day,teach a man to fish and you give him an excuse for him to escape from the wife and kids for the weekend and drink lots of beer.
The current trend at more attractive clubs then ours appears to be to appoint a young up coming coach with no managerial experience . I wouldn’t be suprised if our new manager hasn’t been mentioned yet in the 123 pages of this thread
In a parallel universe, we beat Bradford and someone came in for Hurst and Doig. We would have been second in the league, so would the board have chosen to shake things up a little bit or looked for a manager just like Hurst?
I don't understand your point?
The board relieved Hurst and Doig of there duties and in all communication since have stated the wish to move to a more progressive manager.
That doesn't seem like the words of people who will go and bring in a Paul Hurst with a better accent?
Lee carsley for me (if it’s not someone already mentioned). Or another not mentioned would be Jimmy Floyd hasselbaink. Did wonders at Antwerp and burton (1st time) under similar conditions to where we are at the moment.
Very doubtful on both of them. But, I find it very interesting that unlike what we usually have had, there’s no specific front runner or ‘in the know’ mentions.
Hasselbaink is coaching with the England set-up now with Carsley the Under 21 manager so I would say both are a no-go. Hasselbaink's record since leaving Burton eight years ago (first spell) is pretty ropey too.
I'm definitely thinking it'll be an unknown.
My initial thoughts on the Lincoln appointment are that it's a bold, brave and potentially bad decision. That's based on no knowledge of the guy at all, just instant reaction. Which in turn makes me wonder if I'd be comfortable with us going down that route.
Woz's point about the lack of inside knowledge just shows how in the last 18 months the leaky sources at the club appear to have left. Same with this transfer window just gone, I think the only transfer that anyone (most people) called was the Vernam one which was the worst kept secret ever, also one that had dragged on for the best part of a year anyway.
Am surprised no on has mentioned Ian Burchnall yet. Got Notts County into the play-offs in conference national only to lose in the play-off semi's, cant think of the name of the team , then left to take up impossible role of being competitive with Forest Green in League One for a short spell. Put together a good team at Notts including Ruben Rodrigues, Kyle Wooten and the likes. Started as a coach at Leeds United and Bradford Academies, before starting Managerial roles in Sweden and Norway. Currently a 1st team coach at Wolves
Appointments from coaching teams of clubs higher up the pyramid seem to be working out well, so probably expect someone like Justin Cochrane, or Justin Cochrane himself.to be appointed..
I would argue any football manager worth their salt would win 75% - 85% of matches with Linfield. The game at the weekend against the biggest challenger they were played off the park.
His football is similar to Hurst.
I doubt there's any football manager in professional football with a win percentage close to, or exceeding 75%.
Appointments from coaching teams of clubs higher up the pyramid seem to be working out well, so probably expect someone like Justin Cochrane, or Justin Cochrane himself.to be appointed..
Justin Cochrane is the name I heard but I have no idea if my source is any good as he's no more than an acquaintance.
My initial thoughts on the Lincoln appointment are that it's a bold, brave and potentially bad decision. That's based on no knowledge of the guy at all, just instant reaction. Which in turn makes me wonder if I'd be comfortable with us going down that route.
Michael Skubala is a good guy, highly rated coach, ambitious, and coached for best part of 20 years without playing professional football himself - he's done a lot of positive things to put himself in the position he has.
Tom Shaw is super-highly rated down the road too and was always going to be the #2 regardless of who came in.
I wouldn't be surprised if they add someone with huge experience to the coaching team over the next couple of weeks.
One potential positive I believe though is Danny Cowley was desperate keen to get the job and his current location will 100% not be an issue in his next job and after spending without success at Portsmouth his opportunities in L1 are limited. I believe [but have no knowledge here] we should still be in the running on that basis if 1878 are willing to meet demands.
I doubt there's any football manager in professional football with a win percentage close to, or exceeding 75%.
So your argument is bollox.
Stats up until Xmas 2022 Pep Guardiola win percentage for Man City = 74% .
That's just off top of my head. So no doubt there is more.
As you're willing to label my argument as 'bollox' I assume you've researched and watched Linfield to counter the argument with something a bit more solid.....
Stats up until Xmas 2022 Pep Guardiola win percentage for Man City = 74% .
That's just off top of my head. So no doubt there is more.
As you're willing to label my argument as 'bollox' I assume you've researched and watched Linfield to counter the argument with something a bit more solid.....
Pep - rated by many as the best manager in the world - has an incredible 72.68% win ratio (current stat).
I am unaware of any manager in the 75%-85% range you quoted. Unlike you, I doubt there is more...or indeed any.
Linfield has nothing to do with this, my point is that there is no manager anywhere for any professional team who wins 3 matches out of four (or better).
Pep - rated by many as the best manager in the world - has an incredible 72.68% win ratio (current stat).
I am unaware of any manager in the 75%-85% range you quoted. Unlike you, I doubt there is more...or indeed any.
Linfield has nothing to do with this, my point is that there is no manager anywhere for any professional team who wins 3 matches out of four (or better).
Pep hasn't managed it...so who has?
Again that was across his whole time at Man City. In a single season, which is what I was stating regarding Healy, in 2021 season Pep had 76.31% and Klopp had 73.68%.
I found that with a quick Google search. If I had time to dig deep enough I'm sure I can find better win ratios across a season in 1 team leagues which NI is.
Again that was across his whole time at Man City. In a single season, which is what I was stating regarding Healy, in 2021 season Pep had 76.31% and Klopp had 73.68%.
I found that with a quick Google search. If I had time to dig deep enough I'm sure I can find better win ratios across a season in 1 team leagues which NI is.
Thanks for helping pass the time for tonight 👍
Yes, let's not get into an argument about statistics on this forum...would be inviting trouble!
Justin Cochrane is the name I heard but I have no idea if my source is any good as he's no more than an acquaintance.
There is something in the Cochrane story, at least in so much that there has been dialogue between the two parties. I’ve had that from two very unconnected sources, one I initially believed to be a bit sketchy, the other absolutely rock solid, which in turn makes the original feel a lot more robust.
There is something in the Cochrane story, at least in so much that there has been dialogue between the two parties. I’ve had that from two very unconnected sources, one I initially believed to be a bit sketchy, the other absolutely rock solid, which in turn makes the original feel a lot more robust.
Why would someone who is/was Head of Coaching at Brentford, want to come to GTFC?
There is something in the Cochrane story, at least in so much that there has been dialogue between the two parties. I’ve had that from two very unconnected sources, one I initially believed to be a bit sketchy, the other absolutely rock solid, which in turn makes the original feel a lot more robust.
If he is as good as the Ipswich manager we will fly up the league.
He has taken Ipswich from mid table L1 to top of the championship.
Over 36 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner. 68 Years following the Town
Why would someone who is/was Head of Coaching at Brentford, want to come to GTFC?
Why would someone who was first team coach at Man Utd want to go to Ipswich? Given the right offer and a good sell then I would guess ambition and being able to control your own team, rather than being told what to do, may help? As head of coaching he will have some input but I would have thought that Frank will have more of a say. Maybe he wants a challenge?
And I agree... maybe there is nothing in it at all!
Why would someone who was first team coach at Man Utd want to go to Ipswich? Given the right offer and a good sell then I would guess ambition and being able to control your own team, rather than being told what to do, may help? As head of coaching he will have some input but I would have thought that Frank will have more of a say. Maybe he wants a challenge?
And I agree... maybe there is nothing in it at all!
Well i think if these attacking ideas carry on then ben & shaun might have a say in matters , two home games in charge 10 goals who'd have forecast that
Director has said that Ben and Shaun are part of the process to appoint new management. Well - they have done well so far. In fact - must be a distraction to them - so appoint them as soon as possible
Blundell Park - The Home of Grimsby Town Football Club (still)
Just listened to the Pearson interview, clear, honest and direct answers. Taking accountability for things that went wrong and says that the way they set up was probably wrong to start with so adjusted at half time. Sounds every bit like a man enjoying the job he’s doing and the more I listen and watch the more I like and can’t help but think that one day he will manage the football club permanently..
I'm not overly keen on keeping Pearson and Davis on as management. However..... They've turned the exact same team that was creating absolutely nothing, to one creating plenty, and that's not just last night.
They've done them self's no harm, and hope whoever does come in, keeps them here for the foreseeable
Well i think if these attacking ideas carry on then ben & shaun might have a say in matters , two home games in charge 10 goals who'd have forecast that
Seven of them against a team of part timers playing 2 leagues below us, who were absolutely shattered for the last 3 of those goals. Lets not get carried away.
I'm not overly keen on keeping Pearson and Davis on as management. However..... They've turned the exact same team that was creating absolutely nothing, to one creating plenty, and that's not just last night.
They've done them self's no harm, and hope whoever does come in, keeps them here for the foreseeable
My thoughts on this. I’m prepared to look past the first Slough game, which took place under a multitude of difficult circumstances, and since then they’ve returned two positive results and two improved performances out of two. In doing so, they have restored faith that there is some reasonable talent in this squad and certainly made tangible improvements to our attacking play, even if defensive frailties remain at present.
In terms of what they’ve been asked to do, they’ve done a sterling job. So far. We have to be careful about getting too excited about a couple of games, one of which was against a side over 40 league places below us. And we need to retain the assumption that we are in a precarious position; getting our next managerial appointment right remains absolutely paramount.
Ultimately, the number one priority facing Stockwood and Pettit right now is identifying the indvidual(s) best suited and best qualified for the job, offering the highest probability of a good outcome, by whatever means of assessment available to them. Realistically, Shaun and Ben’s collective CV is weak, and so all they have to back themselves with is what’s happening in the here and now.
The problem with that is, I don’t think you can delay the appointment of an outstanding, more qualified external candidate while we try to work out whether Pearson and Davies are capable of doing the job long-term. Snooze, and you might lose. Situations, like a manager’s availability, can change rapidly in football.
You would assume that they will remain in charge for this weekend’s game against Forest Green, but beyond that it’s hard to say. Our next game after that is Sutton at home on the 25th November, which marks the four week anniversary of Hurst’s exit.
I consider four weeks sufficient to run a diligent recruitment process, especially when you consider that tentative plans were being drawn up while Hurst was still at the club. Even if we win our next two games, replete with renewed vigour, I’m still not sure we’ll have sufficient evidence that Ben and Pearson are the best men for the job - it’s still a very limited pool of data to go on.
This may be harsh on the two of them, both of whom have been great ambassadors for the club, but the only way I see them landing the gig permanently is if the external process naturally runs for another 4 or 5 weeks from here, and they’re still clocking up the points with good performances.
I just don’t think it will. My personal expectation is that we’ll make an announcement some time between the Forest Green and Sutton games, and it will be someone from outside the club currently.
All the Rumours seem to have quelled for the time being. Whilst it is very important that we need to get the right person at the helm, it’s also important to get it done as soon as possible.
The new Manager will need time to get a recruitment plan in place as it’s obvious that will be a priority in the January Transfer Window, regardless of recent and upcoming performances.
I was really hoping that someone would be in place before the Forest Green game but that looks less and less likely now.
Whilst Shaun and Ben have done a great job so far, I don’t think now is the right time in the Club’s development to risk giving them the job full time, that opportunity may well come in the future but I genuinely think it’s expecting too much to place that on their shoulders, given out current and precarious position.
Don't know anything about him really, or how highly (or unhighly) he is rated, but i've been surprised to not see ex Lincoln Mark Kennedy linked much, if at all? Especially seen as his assistant is Danny Butterfield.
Don't know anything about him really, or how highly (or unhighly) he is rated, but i've been surprised to not see ex Lincoln Mark Kennedy linked much, if at all? Especially seen as his assistant is Danny Butterfield.
Danny Butterfield has been desperate for a management opportunity for quite some time. He has applied for our vacant positions a couple of times in the past, so it wouldn't surprise me if he has applied again this time.
My thoughts on this. I’m prepared to look past the first Slough game, which took place under a multitude of difficult circumstances, and since then they’ve returned two positive results and two improved performances out of two. In doing so, they have restored faith that there is some reasonable talent in this squad and certainly made tangible improvements to our attacking play, even if defensive frailties remain at present.
In terms of what they’ve been asked to do, they’ve done a sterling job. So far. We have to be careful about getting too excited about a couple of games, one of which was against a side over 40 league places below us. And we need to retain the assumption that we are in a precarious position; getting our next managerial appointment right remains absolutely paramount.
Ultimately, the number one priority facing Stockwood and Pettit right now is identifying the indvidual(s) best suited and best qualified for the job, offering the highest probability of a good outcome, by whatever means of assessment available to them. Realistically, Shaun and Ben’s collective CV is weak, and so all they have to back themselves with is what’s happening in the here and now.
The problem with that is, I don’t think you can delay the appointment of an outstanding, more qualified external candidate while we try to work out whether Pearson and Davies are capable of doing the job long-term. Snooze, and you might lose. Situations, like a manager’s availability, can change rapidly in football.
You would assume that they will remain in charge for this weekend’s game against Forest Green, but beyond that it’s hard to say. Our next game after that is Sutton at home on the 25th November, which marks the four week anniversary of Hurst’s exit.
I consider four weeks sufficient to run a diligent recruitment process, especially when you consider that tentative plans were being drawn up while Hurst was still at the club. Even if we win our next two games, replete with renewed vigour, I’m still not sure we’ll have sufficient evidence that Ben and Pearson are the best men for the job - it’s still a very limited pool of data to go on.
This may be harsh on the two of them, both of whom have been great ambassadors for the club, but the only way I see them landing the gig permanently is if the external process naturally runs for another 4 or 5 weeks from here, and they’re still clocking up the points with good performances.
I just don’t think it will. My personal expectation is that we’ll make an announcement some time between the Forest Green and Sutton games, and it will be someone from outside the club currently.
I think it would be more than 4 weeks, my understanding was that not losing at Doncaster may have kept PH in the job so I would assume the board have been looking longer than 4 weeks.
May be they want to announce a new manager at the fans forum a week on Friday.
May be they want to announce a new manager at the fans forum a week on Friday.
I doubt this, they're not really into showboating or making grand gestures. I'd suspect that they would want the new man to start asap, regardless of fan's forums or otherwise.
Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
Don't know anything about him really, or how highly (or unhighly) he is rated, but i've been surprised to not see ex Lincoln Mark Kennedy linked much, if at all? Especially seen as his assistant is Danny Butterfield.
Think the football played by Kennedy’s teams is very similar to that we have seen under PH and Lincoln fans would say that excitement is not top of his list of priorities. Think he would be a safe pair of hands, especially in getting the defensive side sorted, but not what we would be looking for at present.
just been reading an article on Justin Cochrane and a year ago before joining Brentford he turned down manager offers from league one and assistant coach roles in the prem. To entice him here would be one hell of a coup - he is only 1 year into a 3 year contract with Brentford. Can't see it myself unfortunately
As much as shaun and Ben have done well we need to look at the bigger picture, imo it's not the right time to give them the job right now. It's just not the right time.
Think ahead to recruitment contacts etc they are built over time with experience in management, they should definitely be part of the coaching team and then look at were they want to get to themselves, if they want management in their careers then look at jobs lower down and get your experience their.
I think they both could be good managers but just not right now with us.
The big test on how much better we are under the present management will be when we go to Oxford. They are a very good side in the league above scoring plenty of goals. We need to tighten our defence and be at our best going forward or the cries for Ben and Shaun to be permanent managers will go very quiet.
Town will need some expertise in the forthcoming transfer market, as well as utilising the present players in the squad.
With full respect to both Shaun and Ben, have they got enough current experience to devekop those already here and any newcomers in a short time period?
If those here suddenly come good, why not for Hurst?
New broom, wrong tactics, wrong formations, too many changes, not closing games out??
The big test on how much better we are under the present management will be when we go to Oxford. They are a very good side in the league above scoring plenty of goals. We need to tighten our defence and be at our best going forward or the cries for Ben and Shaun to be permanent managers will go very quiet.
I’d be very disappointed if we’re not going to Oxford with a new manager
I do love the fact we are 128 pages in, and no actual rumours, just names being thrown around
Well there’s at least 4 very clear favourites with the bookies, based on current odds. Presumably that’s more to do betting patterns than any insider information possessed by my old mate Victor Chandler (I once had a steak with him in Gibraltar marina, so I think that counts), but these are they:
Danny Cowley - evens Shaun Pearson - 3/1 Nathan Rooney - 3/1 Justin Cochrane - 4/1 The rest - 12/1+
I don’t think we’ll give it to Rooney, he hasn’t got the requisite experience at a proper level, and the same realistically applies to Pearson in truth, as much as I love the bloke.
Cowley and Cochrane (the latter of whom I have shared an rumour about tbf, a solid one at that) are both very different prospects, but I’d be absolutely cóck-a-hoop with either of them. It’ll probably be Phil Brown now I’ve said that…
Well there’s at least 4 very clear favourites with the bookies, based on current odds. Presumably that’s more to do betting patterns than any insider information possessed by my old mate Victor Chandler (I once had a steak with him in Gibraltar marina, so I think that counts), but these are they:
Danny Cowley - evens Shaun Pearson - 3/1 Nathan Rooney - 3/1 Justin Cochrane - 4/1 The rest - 12/1+
I don’t think we’ll give it to Rooney, he hasn’t got the requisite experience at a proper level, and the same realistically applies to Pearson in truth, as much as I love the bloke.
Cowley and Cochrane (the latter of whom I have shared an rumour about tbf, a solid one at that) are both very different prospects, but I’d be absolutely cóck-a-hoop with either of them. It’ll probably be Phil Brown now I’ve said that…
That was a roller coaster of a post, with a real bizarre, but excellent ending!
Well there’s at least 4 very clear favourites with the bookies, based on current odds. Presumably that’s more to do betting patterns than any insider information possessed by my old mate Victor Chandler (I once had a steak with him in Gibraltar marina, so I think that counts), but these are they:
Danny Cowley - evens Shaun Pearson - 3/1 Nathan Rooney - 3/1 Justin Cochrane - 4/1 The rest - 12/1+
I don’t think we’ll give it to Rooney, he hasn’t got the requisite experience at a proper level, and the same realistically applies to Pearson in truth, as much as I love the bloke.
Cowley and Cochrane (the latter of whom I have shared an rumour about tbf, a solid one at that) are both very different prospects, but I’d be absolutely cóck-a-hoop with either of them. It’ll probably be Phil Brown now I’ve said that…
What was the rumour poojah? Think I may have missed it in all the pages.
What was the rumour poojah? Think I may have missed it in all the pages.
That there has been dialogue between Town and Cochrane. I first mentioned this a couple of weeks ago, when it initially came from the Brentford end, from someone I have worked with over the years and who has a pretty hefty commercial relationship with the Bees, and our interest was subsequently corroborated by someone well connected to Town and well respected on here (I’m not being deliberately vague by not saying who, but it’s not my place to say). I had never heard of him up to that point.
The last I heard was about a week or so ago, and I have no idea as to how positive or serious any conversations have been. As others have indicated, he appears to have turned down EFL jobs previously, so it may well have been no more than a “thanks, but no thanks”, but there certainly appears to have been a legitimate approach.
All I would say, though, is if you were to think of the ideal Stockwood candidate, based on what he’s said publicly and what we know of his ideas and values more broadly, Cochrane meets the description perfectly. Whether we could attract him might well be a different story; I would see it as an absolutely gargantuan coup if we managed to pull it off.
Don't know anything about him really, or how highly (or unhighly) he is rated, but i've been surprised to not see ex Lincoln Mark Kennedy linked much, if at all? Especially seen as his assistant is Danny Butterfield.
Kennedy was sacked for being a bully so I'm told so I doubt he'd get a look in.
Well there’s at least 4 very clear favourites with the bookies, based on current odds. Presumably that’s more to do betting patterns than any insider information possessed by my old mate Victor Chandler (I once had a steak with him in Gibraltar marina, so I think that counts), but these are they:
Danny Cowley - evens Shaun Pearson - 3/1 Nathan Rooney - 3/1 Justin Cochrane - 4/1 The rest - 12/1+
I don’t think we’ll give it to Rooney, he hasn’t got the requisite experience at a proper level, and the same realistically applies to Pearson in truth, as much as I love the bloke.
Cowley and Cochrane (the latter of whom I have shared an rumour about tbf, a solid one at that) are both very different prospects, but I’d be absolutely cóck-a-hoop with either of them. It’ll probably be Phil Brown now I’ve said that…
looks like Healy has dropped down the pecking order.
You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
The Managers Prediction Thread, after 2 weeks, ended as:-
Dave Healy 14 votes Cowleys 13 votes Wayne Burnet 2 votes
1 vote for all these
Pete Wild Phil Parkinson JohnEustice Nathan Booney Big Sam Damien Duff Luke Garrod Graham Alexander Dean Brennan Graham Ainsworth Liam Richardson David Healy Josh Gowling Justin Cochrane ZiZu Chris Millington Tommy Widdrington Mark Kennedy Anthony Limbrick David Artell Justin Cochrane Damon Purse
Time will tell who is right, if anybody.
You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
The big test on how much better we are under the present management will be when we go to Oxford. They are a very good side in the league above scoring plenty of goals. We need to tighten our defence and be at our best going forward or the cries for Ben and Shaun to be permanent managers will go very quiet.
I'm going to respectfully disagree with you. We're playing Oxford in the cup, we're not going to win the cup and the result doesn't really matter. The cash is nice.
What matters is a run of 3 league games of which 2 are against teams in the bottom 2 and one is against a team that blows hot and cold. If we get 7 points out of those 3 games I will be calling for Shaun and Ben to get the job!
And our league position will be a lot healthier.
Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
I'm going to respectfully disagree with you. We're playing Oxford in the cup, we're not going to win the cup and the result doesn't really matter. The cash is nice.
What matters is a run of 3 league games of which 2 are against teams in the bottom 2 and one is against a team that blows hot and cold. If we get 7 points out of those 3 games I will be calling for Shaun and Ben to get the job!
And our league position will be a lot healthier.
I’d be happy if we finish just one place higher in the league than last season and make one round further in the cup…
I think Cochrane would simultaneously be a risk, given he has no senior managerial experience and we are still in a precarious position, but also a coup. He has an impressive coaching CV and would be a good fit for the direction I assume we're looking to take: a data-led approach (he's at Brentford, the poster boys for moneyball) with some separation of recruitment and coaching. But if, as others have said, he's turned down League 1 offers before then maybe the mere utterance of "Grimsby" would provoke an immediate "no thanks". You'd have to hope that if our owners can get in the room with someone like that, though, they could make a pretty tempting sales pitch.
The Cowleys, on the other hand, I'm not sure about. Won the League 2 title in 2019 of course and there's every chance they still have that in them, but there's a feeling that maybe their style has been figured out since then. They're all about a scientific approach but they also prefer to have complete control which is a model I figure we're trying to move away from. Maybe that's why Lincoln turned down the chance to reunite with them, as they've changed their approach since the brothers left.
I think the difference between the team under Hurst and the team under the 2 coaches raises some interesting points, and is perhaps a reason we think a first team coach, with the ultimate responsibility but with some of the normal managerial responsibilities offloaded, is the way to go.
Under Hurst we had the same coaches, but were very static, unadventurous and the players looked fed up. The coaches must have seen the best way to get the best of the squad was to give them more freedom to express their talents. The manager had other ideas so it makes sense if the man responsible for the team is a top quality coach who will ensure the teams at the club play in a certain way, are coached in that way and future recruitment takes this into account.
I still don't know why Hurst and the coaches couldn't find a better way together when it was getting worse by the week, but we will never know.
I think the difference between the team under Hurst and the team under the 2 coaches raises some interesting points, and is perhaps a reason we think a first team coach, with the ultimate responsibility but with some of the normal managerial responsibilities offloaded, is the way to go.
Under Hurst we had the same coaches, but were very static, unadventurous and the players looked fed up. The coaches must have seen the best way to get the best of the squad was to give them more freedom to express their talents. The manager had other ideas so it makes sense if the man responsible for the team is a top quality coach who will ensure the teams at the club play in a certain way, are coached in that way and future recruitment takes this into account.
I still don't know why Hurst and the coaches couldn't find a better way together when it was getting worse by the week, but we will never know.
Stubbornness? Pig-headedness? No plan ‘B’ ( though plan ‘A’ wasn’t that well thought out!) Conflict among players? Favourites’ in the squad.
Who knows what happened for the squad to sink faster than a guest at a Michael Barrymore party. What the past 5 days have told anyone, is that the ability going forward is definitely there. The worry is the back line now
Just listened to the Pearson interview, clear, honest and direct answers. Taking accountability for things that went wrong and says that the way they set up was probably wrong to start with so adjusted at half time. Sounds every bit like a man enjoying the job he’s doing and the more I listen and watch the more I like and can’t help but think that one day he will manage the football club permanently..
Stubbornness? Pig-headedness? No plan ‘B’ ( though plan ‘A’ wasn’t that well thought out!) Conflict among players? Favourites’ in the squad.
Who knows what happened for the squad to sink faster than a guest at a Michael Barrymore party. What the past 5 days have told anyone, is that the ability going forward is definitely there. The worry is the back line now
I think the difference between the team under Hurst and the team under the 2 coaches raises some interesting points, and is perhaps a reason we think a first team coach, with the ultimate responsibility but with some of the normal managerial responsibilities offloaded, is the way to go.
Under Hurst we had the same coaches, but were very static, unadventurous and the players looked fed up. The coaches must have seen the best way to get the best of the squad was to give them more freedom to express their talents. The manager had other ideas so it makes sense if the man responsible for the team is a top quality coach who will ensure the teams at the club play in a certain way, are coached in that way and future recruitment takes this into account.
I still don't know why Hurst and the coaches couldn't find a better way together when it was getting worse by the week, but we will never know.
I think what the current playing style also highlights is that coaches already in the building have ideas of their own, and that will be the same up and down the land.
Funny isn’t it, a few weeks ago the reason we couldn’t attack was because the coaches were all defenders.
Great to see Shaun & Ben doing well, though we’ve scored goals and looked better going forward the defence is still all over the place.
I hope when we get a new manager Ben is retained & given a good level of responsibility and Shaun is utilised for his coaching ability with the senior players. Thought Shaun’s post match yesterday was excellent considering his level of coaching experience.
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
As much as shaun and Ben have done well we need to look at the bigger picture, imo it's not the right time to give them the job right now. It's just not the right time.
Think ahead to recruitment contacts etc they are built over time with experience in management, they should definitely be part of the coaching team and then look at were they want to get to themselves, if they want management in their careers then look at jobs lower down and get your experience their.
I think they both could be good managers but just not right now with us.
I don't think it's that cut and dry that only being a manager develops contacts in the game.
I did my Level 2 coaching badge back in 2007 at RAF Halton, where there were people from all across the RAF on board. There happened to be a guy who lived in Healing on the course and worked in the school of excellence with Town.
We were sat in the bar one night when a parent called him to discuss their disappointment that their son had just been released, after a training session in the pouring rain and told not to turn up anymore. After the phone call he explained what had happened and another guy on the course, Neil Matthews I think his name was, a goalkeeper coach at Lincoln Citys academy asked a bit about him and a few weeks later the lad was on trial at Lincoln.
My point being that through a few strangers being thrown together on a coaching course a lad went from being released to being on trial at another club. When you consider that Ben Davies and SHaun Pearson have been in the game a long time, working with managers, coaches and players who have moved into the coaching and management side of the game. Just because they haven't been managers doesn't mean they won't have contacts and routes to bring good players into the club.
It's also worth noting that you don't need to know a fellow manager to approach them for a player. Scouts will look for talent and assess whats out there and approaches made.
Shaun Pearson and Ben Davies for me. Shaun bleeds back and white and clearly has all the attributes to be a great manager. He also crucially knows the squad which in my opinion is way better than their league position currently shows. I am old enough to remember the Neil Woods and Paul Groves shitshows but I think this is a bit different. Catapulting a random name in will probably get us relagated again.
Shaun and Ben are doing great so far. Shaun comes across brilliantly in interviews and is my favourite interviewee we've had in a very long time. If nothing else how they are performing is giving the owners time to get the next move right. Providing we continue to pick up points and perform like we are I'm happy to wait 3 or 4 weeks (providing we're moving up the league) ideally whoever is the new manager I'd say they need to be in before Christmas so they can analyse the squad and have January to tweak it
J. S. Ok lads your doing a great job so far and the tribe (fishy) seems to be quite happy so heres our short term plan your now in charge till mid December keep up the good work Sp@ bd cheers mr chairman Js here’s our mid term plan providing the above goes well work with the team and Debbie identify what strengthening you need in jan and we will do our best but I need to balance it a bit who can we afford to lose ? Sp & bd wow great mr chairman we won’t let you down Js long term we will ask the tribe in June what they think
J. S. Ok lads your doing a great job so far and the tribe (fishy) seems to be quite happy so heres our short term plan your now in charge till mid December keep up the good work Sp@ bd cheers mr chairman Js here’s our mid term plan providing the above goes well work with the team and Debbie identify what strengthening you need in jan and we will do our best but I need to balance it a bit who can we afford to lose ? Sp & bd wow great mr chairman we won’t let you down Js long term we will ask the tribe in June what they think
Glad to say sp has changed my short term view really impressed with how he comes across
I think that how quickly Shaun and Ben have turned things around is bloody amazing really. We have gone from a side devoid of attacking ideas to front foot football in three games with entertainment thrown in. Also listening to Shaun and Ben speak is like a breath of fresh air...and of course they ooze Grimsby Town!!
I remember years ago, when John Cockerill took over as caretaker and the amazing difference he made very quickly, being disappointed and baffled how he didn't get the gig.
I am quite sure that Messrs. Stockwood and Petit are watching dutifully. How refreshing to have proper Grimsby heartbeats monitoring the club's pulses properly.
'I walked in the dressing room. The window was open and I thought that a sea fret had got in. Then I saw smoke billowing from a pipe in the corner of the room...it was my centre-forward. He looked seven stone wet through. He went on to score thirty-odd goals that season.' Lawrie McMenemy on encountering the legend that was Matt Tees.
As you all will know managerial success is based on results, the last 2 games (Morecambe & Slough) were not only good results but a completely opposite style to what we have had under Paul Hurst, attacking in numbers, wingers, shots on target , two up front rather than just one, goals and actual entertainment, something which the previous management team never really gave us, add to that the previous 2 bosses did have to travel here daily, Pearson & Davies actually already live here so that's a massive plus, if they carry on with what we have seen so far they will definitely get the job assuming the results continue to be positive, hence as the Chairman say's, there is no hurry, in other words he is giving Pearson & Davies a chance to show what they can do & so far it's very good, the ball is now firmly in their court to get GTFC the right results in the right style of play.
As you all will know managerial success is based on results, the last 2 games (Morecambe & Slough) were not only good results but a completely opposite style to what we have had under Paul Hurst, attacking in numbers, wingers, shots on target , two up front rather than just one, goals and actual entertainment, something which the previous management team never really gave us, add to that the previous 2 bosses did have to travel here daily, Pearson & Davies actually already live here so that's a massive plus, if they carry on with what we have seen so far they will definitely get the job assuming the results continue to be positive, hence as the Chairman say's, there is no hurry, in other words he is giving Pearson & Davies a chance to show what they can do & so far it's very good, the ball is now firmly in their court to get GTFC the right results in the right style of play.
But surely a top coach/manager would add to that talent? If we can get someone who will be on the same page regarding the style of play and all the coaches are working towards the same goal things can only get better.
On the current evidence it would seem that a stubborn manager was the roadblock to bringing out the talent in the squad.
Delighted to see Shaun and Ben doing so well. We need an away win and a home win against Sutton. If the guys are still doing well after 4 or 5 games they are worth consideration. Before this point, one bad result / performance and the sentiment will change immediately. Forest Green will be a very tricky game. They have underperformed this season and scoring 3 a game is hard work. I think we need another centre half with some pace, other than that should be good enough for mid table utm
I think that how quickly Shaun and Ben have turned things around is bloody amazing really. We have gone from a side devoid of attacking ideas to front foot football in three games with entertainment thrown in. Also listening to Shaun and Ben speak is like a breath of fresh air...and of course they ooze Grimsby Town!!
I remember years ago, when John Cockerill took over as caretaker and the amazing difference he made very quickly, being disappointed and baffled how he didn't get the gig.
I am quite sure that Messrs. Stockwood and Petit are watching dutifully. How refreshing to have proper Grimsby heartbeats monitoring the club's pulses properly.
I made the point earlier in this thread that S&B had managed to make us an attractive side to watch in two weeks, which Paul Hurst couldn't achieve after more than two years...with the players PH signed.
Now Paul Hurst is an experienced and competent manager - the sort that plenty of our fans think it would be dangerous for us NOT to appoint. There's an obvious contradiction/dilemma there.
However much 'due diligence' you do, I'd argue there's always an element of luck involved in finding the right person for the manager's position. There are countless examples of "good" managers failing at a new club after previous success. We might already have been lucky - having Shaun and Ben in the organisation. (But credit PH for wanting to work with people of good character.)
It's early days yet, but if Town continue to perform well for the interim management duo it would represent a significant risk for the owners to appoint anyone else. In those circumstances a "new face" would need to hit the ground running, or there'll be plenty of disgruntled fans wondering why S&B weren't given a chance.
It would be great if Shaun and Ben (virtually) made the decision for Jason and Andrew - but I'm probably dreaming again.
Really surprised that people are saying how brilliant Shaun and Ben are when they have only been in charge for 3 games, 2 of them against a team of part timers. We need to see what the next few games deliver in points (if we haven't appointed a new manager by then, hopefully we have) then maybe the worshiping just might be valid.
Being interim, or caretaker manager(s) is not the same as the real thing. You are in the enviable position having seen what was going wrong and tweak things almost immediately but often caretakers start well then suffer later on. Obviously it might work but I would hope the current coaching staff would be happy to work under a new head coach/manager who will bring new ideas.
]I think that how quickly Shaun and Ben have turned things around is bloody amazing really. We have gone from a side devoid of attacking ideas to front foot football in three games with entertainment thrown in[/b]. Also listening to Shaun and Ben speak is like a breath of fresh air...and of course they ooze Grimsby Town!!
I remember years ago, when John Cockerill took over as caretaker and the amazing difference he made very quickly, being disappointed and baffled how he didn't get the gig.
I am quite sure that Messrs. Stockwood and Petit are watching dutifully. How refreshing to have proper Grimsby heartbeats monitoring the club's pulses properly.
I admire your optimism and I am with you 100% but I think we have to give a bit of balance to your statement.
The three games include two against a team two leagues below us, so I would argue that we can only really consider one of those three games in the "turn around".
That said, the Morecambe game was an excellent result and attacking performance. If we get 7 points from the next 3 league games, then I would also agree it's an amazing turnaround.
I am also a fan of Shaun and Ben, so keen to see them do well in the future, be it in the Manager's seat or supporting the Manager.
Some posters on here were happy to discount Pearson and Davies on the basis of one game. Therefore by the same (perhaps flawed) logic after 2 good wins and (by enlarge and comparatively speaking) 2 good performances it’s natural people are talking them up. I think what the last 3 games gives is an opportunity not to rush an appointment whoever that may eventually be. I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing but I’m sure my outlook may change if results dipped over the next few games. There are so many variables and moving parts to all of this but I have complete faith that the people in charge will appoint the right person or/and people to the roles to achieve success.
***disclaimer*** The opinion expressed in the last sentence is valid as of 16/11/2023. It is subject to change in the event that it does not come true and it is used against me in the future to show I was full of excrement and very wrong.
“I know writers who use subtext and they’re all cowards.” –Garth Marenghi
I do like Ben and Shaun's style of play and they have played 3 lost 0. That said 2 of those games were against Slough, so in reality, they have only played 1 league team. Both FGR and Sutton are 6 pointers at the moment and I think to start to judge them after those games so that we will have the results from 3 league games, would be the right way.
JS & AP may think differently and a new face might appear at BP, who really knows what they are thinking. Time will tell.
You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
Really surprised that people are saying how brilliant Shaun and Ben are when they have only been in charge for 3 games, 2 of them against a team of part timers. We need to see what the next few games deliver in points (if we haven't appointed a new manager by then, hopefully we have) then maybe the worshiping just might be valid.
I didn't say that they were 'brilliant.,' but just that how quickly we've gone from stagnation, which for whatever reason had happened to the team. Also to come from behind in two of those games shows new belief.
We have created more chances in two games than we had done in countless past league games. Its quite baffling that they are the players that PH brought in and players that I wholly agreed with pre-season, so something went amiss somewhere? I am not advocating their imminent appointment, but quickly enjoying again the new style of play, however short term it may - or not - be?
But the reason Shaun Pearson was brought back to the club, I believe, is for his leadership qualities and his influence in the dressing room. As we know, the football world turns quickly and on results. But for now, I'll lap up what's on offer. The opposition can score 4 if they can manage it, but from what I have seen in two games, we can create and score 5....
'I walked in the dressing room. The window was open and I thought that a sea fret had got in. Then I saw smoke billowing from a pipe in the corner of the room...it was my centre-forward. He looked seven stone wet through. He went on to score thirty-odd goals that season.' Lawrie McMenemy on encountering the legend that was Matt Tees.
Really surprised that people are saying how brilliant Shaun and Ben are when they have only been in charge for 3 games, 2 of them against a team of part timers. We need to see what the next few games deliver in points (if we haven't appointed a new manager by then, hopefully we have) then maybe the worshiping just might be valid.
I tend to agree with this. Fine margins, Morecambe could easily have gone wrong but I loved the style. Slough was fun but not a measure for me. We are in a perilous league position and need a winning sequence urgently. 4 points from the next 2 games essential. Defence will need Jan signings I think , which I think is a hell of a lot easier than finding forwards. Love the new caretakers but not the time for sentimentality. Utm
Really surprised that people are saying how brilliant Shaun and Ben are when they have only been in charge for 3 games, 2 of them against a team of part timers. We need to see what the next few games deliver in points (if we haven't appointed a new manager by then, hopefully we have) then maybe the worshiping just might be valid.
Think it's more the change in attitude and style rather than results. There's a clear gameplan with players doing the hard graft playing for them. Like Lew suggested you could have a top coach come in and it all go south, you need that element of luck. Football management is sort of a if it's not broke then don't try fix it, look at Birmingham for the perfect example of that. If we beat FGR and Sutton then I think they have a very good chance of landing the gig. We all know Shaun Pearson was brought in when Hurst returned because of his charachter and his values as a person as much as his ability on the pitch. The way he carries himself as a person and a pro are exactly what Jason and Andrew are looking for, couple that with Ben Davies who's career spanned 16 years at levels higher than this. I for one am not opposed to them taking the job permanently as everything comes with risk attatched no matter who we appoint.
Think it's more the change in attitude and style rather than results. There's a clear gameplan with players doing the hard graft playing for them. Like Lew suggested you could have a top coach come in and it all go south, you need that element of luck. Football management is sort of a if it's not broke then don't try fix it, look at Birmingham for the perfect example of that. If we beat FGR and Sutton then I think they have a very good chance of landing the gig. We all know Shaun Pearson was brought in when Hurst returned because of his charachter and his values as a person as much as his ability on the pitch. The way he carries himself as a person and a pro are exactly what Jason and Andrew are looking for, couple that with Ben Davies who's career spanned 16 years at levels higher than this. I for one am not opposed to them taking the job permanently as everything comes with risk attatched no matter who we appoint.
It's much easier when the opportunity is effectively a free hit. We could have easily lost at Slough and were behind at half time to Morecambe. I'm delighted that we have won the last two games, don't get me wrong, but the job will become a lot more difficult if the job changes from 'caretaker' to 'permanent'.
Out of interest, why is it that some people have this belief that SP and BD aren't 'top quality' coaches?
Does anyone on here have day to day contact with the first team setup and can offer genuine first hand insight into what the guys are doing?
There seems to be this underlying theme in some quarters that you can only be a top quality coach if you've had previous experience and I'm baffled where this comes from. There's no doubting that experience can offer many benefits but when judging any coach on their ability it's not a pre-requisite.
In it's most basic format, a good coach simply has an idea of how they want to play and can communicate that effectively to the team, motivating and demonstrating improvement where necessary. There is a skill to it and naturally some will be better than others, but for some it comes naturally and experience doesn't have the same weight it does to those who don't come by it naturally and have to learn as they go.
We can't really judge BD and SP off three games to say where their talents fall on the grand scale of things but they deserve praise for what they've done so far and if they can keep the run going then it'll be hard for them not to be at the forefront of peoples minds.
It's much easier when the opportunity is effectively a free hit. We could have easily lost at Slough and were behind at half time to Morecambe. I'm delighted that we have won the last two games, don't get me wrong, but the job will become a lot more difficult if the job changes from 'caretaker' to 'permanent'.
We should of been 2/3 up at half time against Morecambe, we battered them from the 2nd minute onwards. What suddenly changes if they get the permanent position? We are recruiting a head coach, someone that is effective on the grass. I've seen a few sessions of Ben Davies as I took my talent assessment badges and he's very very good at what he does. A man that understands the game and how to improve players, he's a born leader and more importantly understands people. He's turned down other jobs to stay local and we are very lucky to have him in that capacity. I didn't take the chance to ask him whether he ever fancied a forray into management, merely wasted all my time on asking him about coaching and his ideologys
I think the reason is because Dave Moore has managed twice as many league games as the both Pearson & Davies combined.
I appreciate that it was good to get a win on Saturday, but some people are beyond parody.
Justin Cochrane has never managed a mens game and people seem to be fixated on him? I think whoever is appointed is going to have minimal managerial experience and plenty of coaching experience. Football is changing and the likes of Mckenna and Mousinho are paving the way with many clubs following that blueprint.
All this talk of Shaun and Ben (which I whole heartedly understand), but are they even interested in taking the management role?
I believe that if S & B are given a while longer and the points and performances continue to improve, it would be difficult not to justify keeping them in the position on a longer term basis.
But, I also understand this would not be popular with some of our fans, even if they went on a winning streak.
A while back, whilst reading a post by Hearts GTFC, he mentioned the theory of FOMO. Never having heard this before I did quite a bit of reading up and was blown away with the theory and the potential negative effects. Unfortunately, it seems I have suffered from this "condition" myself and I now believe I can link this to some of my ongoing mental health issues over the years. I wonder if some fans also suffer from FOMO and just like to have a manager from outside the club, because they want something "new", possibly with a "big" name and a "recognised" reputation?
If they want the position, give Shaun and Ben a chance to prove themselves on say a rolling basis. If the results and performances are acceptable in a few months time then offer them a contract. Many of us may like shiny, new objects, all the time. But from experience they often leave you very disappointed!
It's much easier when the opportunity is effectively a free hit. We could have easily lost at Slough and were behind at half time to Morecambe. I'm delighted that we have won the last two games, don't get me wrong, but the job will become a lot more difficult if the job changes from 'caretaker' to 'permanent'.
The dynamics definitely change when you get the job permanently and become accountable. I imagine keeping team spirit high is a bit harder too. Both are settled locally, and if they take the job on permanently, it will probably be their last job at the club, so that consideration may be on their mind.
I think the thing to consider is supporters will jump from one view to another.The board are taking too long, Shaun and Ben doing ok they can take their time, Don't give them the job.Theyve won a game give them the job . The board however aren't playing this out on football manager. The stakes on them financially and professionally are high. They have to get it right or do everything they can to get it right. I will be happy when the decision comes.They will do what they think is right because they have done their due diligence and believe that person is the best option. Not everyone will be happy but that won't be based on a superior knowledge despite the "I told you so brigade" if they fail, who really have punted on a 50-50 pin the tail to the donkey guess.
FWIW I think that Ben and Shaun have demonstrated that we have excellent coaching support staff with good views on how to play. We don't know if either is actually interested in having their managerial roles permanently. If we do get a new manager and assistant from outside the club , then they certainly will have an excellent coaching support system to support them. Any manager worth his salt will recognise this and do their best to keep Ben and Shaun in a supporting role.
The Future is Black & White. "The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
Caretaker managers often get a tune out a team for no other reason that the previous incumbent left. This is true in any workplace not just football, but if there was a motivational issue or some conflict in the dressing room, the very fact that PH left might give the group a temporary lift. We don't really know if Shaun and Ben and great coaches/leaders etc or if they just lifted the gloom. If they are that great we might expect to see us start defending a bit more effectively whilst continuing to score at the new rate. We're a fickle lot us footy fans. twenty minutes into the Slough game they are amazing, at half time people were posting the urgent need for a "proper" manager sharpish. If we beat the veggies the shouting will get louder, lose to Sutton it'll be a crisis. The only people who really know are those closely attached to the squad so let them crack on and do what they think best for the club
FWIW I think that Ben and Shaun have demonstrated that we have excellent coaching support staff with good views on how to play. We don't know if either is actually interested in having their managerial roles permanently. If we do get a new manager and assistant from outside the club , then they certainly will have an excellent coaching support system to support them. Any manager worth his salt will recognise this and do their best to keep Ben and Shaun in a supporting role.
That's a very strong statement to make with very little evidence. You may be right, you may be wrong. Who knows? I would like it to be definitely true.
We've had a very poor performance away at Slough, a much needed league win, great going forward but shaky at the back, and a home FA Cup win against a team from two leagues lower who were well in the game until running out of gas late on. This is also the coaching team that was in place every game this season when we've been shocking. Maybe it was all on Hurst and Doig, maybe it wasn't, but not let's get carried away after just three games, two against part-timers. And on that basis, I won't be judging whether a new manager is worth his salt due to his decision to keep the current coaching team or not.
Tend to agree with the posts above. Everything can change very quickly. Win 4-1 at the weekend and support for Shaun and Ben will grow massively. Lose by the same scoreline and there will be panic about the time it is taking and they will be almost dismissed as an option.
I'm not sure if I'd want them long term or not but hopefully we will keep scoring loads of goals and winning.
Promoting from the ranks can work. Adkins at Scunny and Flynn at Newport being 2 that spring readily to mind, but it's a gamble when you are in the league position we are in.
If we'd been high up the league with a well performing team and PH had been poached from us, then the coaches stepping up and continuing that good work would be less fraught with risk, and there would be less pressure to bring someone else in, at least at first anyway. We could really take our time and see what transpires.
Alas, the situation isn't ideal with our precarious league position, so we need to get sorted sooner, rather than later. If we lose the next 2 games, we are back to panic stations.
I still think that we will appoint someone permanently other than Shaun and Ben, whatever they do results wise.
That's a very strong statement to make with very little evidence. You may be right, you may be wrong. Who knows? I would like it to be definitely true.
We've had a very poor performance away at Slough, a much needed league win, great going forward but shaky at the back, and a home FA Cup win against a team from two leagues lower who were well in the game until running out of gas late on. This is also the coaching team that were in place every game this season when we've been shocking. Maybe it was all on Hurst and Doig, maybe it wasn't, but not let's get carried away after just three games, two against part-timers. And on that basis, I won't be judging whether a new manager is worth his salt due to his decision to keep the current coaching team or not.
I think the fact that Ben and Shaun have got a different style from the same players that Hurst couldn't shows an understanding of the players capabilities. That demonstrates a good coaching nous.
The Future is Black & White. "The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
It will be 3 weeks on Saturday since Hurst left and despite some odd rumours as ever on social media 1878 have done a cracking job at not letting anyone get a sniff of who they’re talking to.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they appoint someone who many supporters have never heard of but has a bundle of varied coaching credentials and some experience who’ll be savvy enough to keep Ben & Shaun involve day to day with the first team.
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
It will be 3 weeks on Saturday since Hurst left and despite some odd rumours as ever on social media 1878 have done a cracking job at not letting anyone get a sniff of who they’re talking to.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they appoint someone who many supporters have never heard of but has a bundle of varied coaching credentials and some experience who’ll be savvy enough to keep Ben & Shaun involve day to day with the first team.
Or we’re absolutely no closer to appointing anyone??!!
I think the fact that Ben and Shaun have got a different style from the same players that Hurst couldn't shows an understanding of the players capabilities. That demonstrates a good coaching nous.
PH didn't have the luxury of mostly managing against Slough..
PH didn't have the luxury of mostly managing against Slough..
If PH had still been the manager against Slough do you think he would have picked that starting 11, played in that style and made the substitutions when he did?
The Future is Black & White. "The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
PH didn't have the luxury of mostly managing against Slough..
Quite right, 2 matches were against Slough, however, 2 wins and a draw is not bad (whatever the opposition) if compared with the previous regime. It must have calmed the team a lot when we are playing such an important match (out of all proportions this early in the season) this Saturday.
There might not be a full light, but maybe a glow in the Mariner's very dark tunnel, and I'm much happier. UTM
Hopefully now that the Lincoln, Oxford, Bradford and Colchester jobs have been taken, some of the people (like Leam Richardson for example) who some thought were a little bit out of our reach, might be available. No ex-manager wants to stay out of the game for too long through fear of being forgotten.
Hopefully now that the Lincoln, Oxford, Bradford and Colchester jobs have been taken, some of the people (like Leam Richardson for example) who some thought were a little bit out of our reach, might be available. No ex-manager wants to stay out of the game for too long through fear of being forgotten.
There will be a few more after the weekend I bet! That's the thing about the modern game - so many managers are just one more bad result away from the sack.
Hopefully now that the Lincoln, Oxford, Bradford and Colchester jobs have been taken, some of the people (like Leam Richardson for example) who some thought were a little bit out of our reach, might be available. No ex-manager wants to stay out of the game for too long through fear of being forgotten.
Hadn’t seen the Oxford appointment (Des Buckingham, 38, from Mumbai City - owned by Manchester City). With them, Lincoln and recently Gillingham all going down the young, up and coming coach route that certainly appears to be an emerging pattern, over established names like Alexander at Bradford.
Of the established managers linked, albeit tentatively, with the Town job, there’s only really Cowley and Leam Richardson that I’d fancy, and the latter is among the favourites for the Rotherham job. I’m increasingly of the belief that we’ll go down the path of a young coach that we haven’t heard of, or at least hadn’t until very recently.
There will be a few more after the weekend I bet! That's the thing about the modern game - so many managers are just one more bad result away from the sack.
Don't think we are going the route of managers from the merry go round.
If we’re making data based decision making then I don’t think the club will be dismissing applications from managers who have previous experience in the EFL
Last season 3 L2 promotion places were taken up by clubs with “merry-go-round”/experienced managers. The other place went to a club with a manager who had worked his way up from their under 16s to take the top job.
The season before that 2 experienced managers winning promotion and 2 who might be described at “young up and coming “ coaches.
The season before that is was 50/50 again between managers with previous experience and novice coaches.
The season before that it was 3 managers with previous experience and 1 novice.
So the last 16 teams promoted from L2 have had 10 experienced managers and 6 novices.
And the current top 3 all have managers with league experience before their current roles.
Why on earth would we not consider experienced managers? It doesn’t make any sense.
Don't think we are going the route of managers from the merry go round.
I didn't mean for us. Roast em Bobby said the current managerial vacancies had been filled and hoped that some candidates previously thought out of our reach might become interested in us. I was merely pointing out there will soon be other vacancies that the more sought after managers might be more interested in.
We've already been down the young but we'll respected coach path with Michael Jolley.
Jolley was possibly more obscure than some of the coaches I imagine we are considering right now (I say, based on absolutely nothing), but of the 15 managerial appointments we have made this side of the millennium, I would argue he’s been the third most successful.
Tallest dwarves and all that, but Jolley is one of very few in recent memory that could walk back into Blundell Park without the risk of being lynched.
We've already been down the young but we'll respected coach path with Michael Jolley.
This argument is ridiculous because Michael Jolley didn't work, it doesn't mean every young manager will be a failure.
We have been down every single "path" with choosing different managers, this doesn't automatically result in failure for those deemed to be in the same category.
Every individual should be judged on their own merit.
This argument is ridiculous because Michael Joly didn't work, it doesn't mean every young manager will be a failure.
We have been down every single "path" with choosing different managers, this doesn't automatically result in failure for those deemed to be in the same category.
Every individual should be judged on their own merit.
See, this is a hill I will die on; Michael Jolley did ok with the tools at his disposal. He inherited a dire situation from Slade, we hadn’t won in 15 games and had taken just 4 points in the process, kept us up and never really had us in any danger during his tenure, which is more than can be said for the likes of Newell, Slade, Holloway and even Hurst of years gone by. Bignot, too, was always an accident waiting to happen.
In my opinion if Jolley doesn’t get caught gobbing off, doesn’t get sacked and takes the reins during that Covid season, we don’t get relegated. Of course, that would mean we’d have missed out on that playoff campaign, but I can’t bring myself to lump him in with some of the absolute dross we’ve had in the dugout in the last couple of decades.
This argument is ridiculous because Michael Joly didn't work, it doesn't mean every young manager will be a failure.
To say that Michael Jolley didn't work somewhat misses the issue, what was success when he came in?
He stopped us going down when even the most optimistic of us where probably resigned to it and put together a team, that whilst was not moving forward much I genuinely don't think would have been anywhere near going down. He blooded our own players, Clifton, Rose, Wright and Pollock. He was by no means the messiah, but on balance I think he succeeded in the job he was given when matched against the realistic expectations.
See, this is a hill I will die on; Michael Jolley did ok with the tools at his disposal. He inherited a dire situation from Slade, we hadn’t won in 15 games and had taken just 4 points in the process, kept us up and never really had us in any danger during his tenure, which is more than can be said for the likes of Newell, Slade, Holloway and even Hurst of years gone by. Bignot, too, was always an accident waiting to happen.
In my opinion if Jolley doesn’t get caught gobbing off, doesn’t get sacked and takes the reins during that Covid season, we don’t get relegated. Of course, that would mean we’d have missed out on that playoff campaign, but I can’t bring myself to lump him in with some of the absolute dross we’ve had in the dugout in the last couple of decades.
Good evening Michael! Bit early to be on the hard stuff isn’t it?
“I know writers who use subtext and they’re all cowards.” –Garth Marenghi
To say that Michael Jolley didn't work somewhat misses the issue, what was success when he came in?
He stopped us going down when even the most optimistic of us where probably resigned to it and put together a team, that whilst was not moving forward much I genuinely don't think would have been anywhere near going down. He blooded our own players, Clifton, Rose, Wright and Pollock. He was by no means the messiah, but on balance I think he succeeded in the job he was given when matched against the realistic expectations.
It didn't work because he got fired! I wasn't commenting on what constitutes success, but rather that a certain "type" of manager, e.g. young, inexperienced, hire within, experienced etc dictates how future managers will perform.
To say that Michael Jolley didn't work somewhat misses the issue, what was success when he came in?
He stopped us going down when even the most optimistic of us where probably resigned to it and put together a team, that whilst was not moving forward much I genuinely don't think would have been anywhere near going down. He blooded our own players, Clifton, Rose, Wright and Pollock. He was by no means the messiah, but on balance I think he succeeded in the job he was given when matched against the realistic expectations.
I'd totally agree that he did a great job when he came in and did really well to keep us up. Ironically, towards the end of that season was when we played our best stuff under Jolley with the home performance against Notts showing some really good football. However, I think people forget just how turgid and dire the football was before his mouth got him fired. It was useless, aimless long balls with no runners in behind. And a relatively toothless forward line of Hanson, Green, Cardwell and Akheem Rose. None of them have played in the FL since leaving us which is fairly damning. We also had Vernam but he was fairly terrible until he was sent out on loan to Chorley.
We were dropping like a stone after an early season purple patch from Hanson had seen us start well. I don't think we'd have gone down because Macclesfield and Stevenage were so bad plus Bury going bust meant only one went down. But everyone generally remembers Limbrick seeing a fairly big upturn in performances despite losing virtually all the games he was in charge of yet nobody seems to remember that this was because we were so bad under Jolley from around September onwards. The only good game in that period was the fantastic win away at Exeter where we were actually very good but that's because we totally changed the line up by dropping Green and Hanson and had balls in to Ogbu's feet with runners off him in the form of Rose, Wright, Cook and Robson. Yet he reverted back to the same shite long ball the very next game. He didn't fail as such because virtually nobody could do well under Fenty but he certainly wasn't a good manager.
I'd totally agree that he did a great job when he came in and did really well to keep us up. Ironically, towards the end of that season was when we played our best stuff under Jolley with the home performance against Notts showing some really good football. However, I think people forget just how turgid and dire the football was before his mouth got him fired. It was useless, aimless long balls with no runners in behind. And a relatively toothless forward line of Hanson, Green, Cardwell and Akheem Rose. None of them have played in the FL since leaving us which is fairly damning. We also had Vernam but he was fairly terrible until he was sent out on loan to Chorley.
We were dropping like a stone after an early season purple patch from Hanson had seen us start well. I don't think we'd have gone down because Macclesfield and Stevenage were so bad plus Bury going bust meant only one went down. But everyone generally remembers Limbrick seeing a fairly big upturn in performances despite losing virtually all the games he was in charge of yet nobody seems to remember that this was because we were so bad under Jolley from around September onwards. The only good game in that period was the fantastic win away at Exeter where we were actually very good but that's because we totally changed the line up by dropping Green and Hanson and had balls in to Ogbu's feet with runners off him in the form of Rose, Wright, Cook and Robson. Yet he reverted back to the same shite long ball the very next game. He didn't fail as such because virtually nobody could do well under Fenty but he certainly wasn't a good manager.
This is much more how I remember it too!
“I know writers who use subtext and they’re all cowards.” –Garth Marenghi
I'd totally agree that he did a great job when he came in and did really well to keep us up. Ironically, towards the end of that season was when we played our best stuff under Jolley with the home performance against Notts showing some really good football. However, I think people forget just how turgid and dire the football was before his mouth got him fired. It was useless, aimless long balls with no runners in behind. And a relatively toothless forward line of Hanson, Green, Cardwell and Akheem Rose. None of them have played in the FL since leaving us which is fairly damning. We also had Vernam but he was fairly terrible until he was sent out on loan to Chorley.
We were dropping like a stone after an early season purple patch from Hanson had seen us start well. I don't think we'd have gone down because Macclesfield and Stevenage were so bad plus Bury going bust meant only one went down. But everyone generally remembers Limbrick seeing a fairly big upturn in performances despite losing virtually all the games he was in charge of yet nobody seems to remember that this was because we were so bad under Jolley from around September onwards. The only good game in that period was the fantastic win away at Exeter where we were actually very good but that's because we totally changed the line up by dropping Green and Hanson and had balls in to Ogbu's feet with runners off him in the form of Rose, Wright, Cook and Robson. Yet he reverted back to the same shite long ball the very next game. He didn't fail as such because virtually nobody could do well under Fenty but he certainly wasn't a good manager.
Totally this. Remember players being told to mark oppo players even when we had the ball! Also was the epitome of being more bothered by the opposition than us, chopped and changed us literally every week - that 11 that thrashed the league leaders never played together again. We really were incredibly dull under him before he got sacked. Barrow actually said one of the factors for sacking him was he said in his interview saying he would play attacking football and then did the opposite when employed.
His success was due to being a much better manager than Slade MK2, and getting a lot more out of the team he had put together, but he was still pretty poor. Corrected errors like playing Berrett and replaced him with clifton, got rose on to pens and long throws - basic stuff that was beyond Slade by then.
It's much easier when the opportunity is effectively a free hit. We could have easily lost at Slough and were behind at half time to Morecambe. I'm delighted that we have won the last two games, don't get me wrong, but the job will become a lot more difficult if the job changes from 'caretaker' to 'permanent'.
Been over 2 weeks since we heard from JS, and I'm sure he said that he would be keeping the supporters updated, so guess there is nothing worth reporting yet.
If Pearson and Davies win the next 2 games they will be taken on permanent I reckon. Especially if the results and performances are good. If they do continue to get a tune out of the players they deserve a chance.
I'm not totally sure that Shaun &Ben would really want the top job full time given that being football managers is a very short lived experience . Security of employment for more than a year or two is very low odds, whilst being members of the coaching staff would probably offer more long term prospects. Dave Moore knew this after his brief crack at the top.
I'm not totally sure that Shaun &Ben would really want the top job full time given that being football managers is a very short lived experience . Security of employment for more than a year or two is very low odds, whilst being members of the coaching staff would probably offer more long term prospects. Dave Moore knew this after his brief crack at the top.
Am told Shaun definitely wants the job. If he does then maybe the idea of a director of football (Stuart Watkiss?) comes back into play?
Shaun’s applied for the job. He wants it, he’s just concerned that his time at the club will be coming to an end at some point, if the new manager wants his own staff, or he gets the job then ultimately ends up being sacked or leaving. He’s also been asked by Paul Hurst and Chris Doig to be their assistant in their next job, as Doig is now applying for manager roles.
"Falls to Arnold... Arnold! That's it! Thats it! He's sealed it! Grimsby Town are back in the football league!!! Just a minute to go and Nathan Arnold makes it 3-1! Look at the scenes behind the goal! Look at the relief! The agony is finally over!!!"
John Tondeur - Wembley Stadium Sunday 15th May 2016
Shaun’s applied for the job. He wants it, he’s just concerned that his time at the club will be coming to an end at some point, if the new manager wants his own staff, or he gets the job then ultimately ends up being sacked or leaving. He’s also been asked by Paul Hurst and Chris Doig to be their assistant, as Doig is now applying for manager roles.
Jolley used to book on as a guest at a local golf course as Mr Clough. Played behind him once and he shanked his tee shot on the 7th hole, put his club away and went home.
I personally think it would be a mistake to give it to Shaun and Ben at this point. We’re still sitting just above relegation spots and have hit a bit of form. This goes south over next few games and two respected squad coaches are gone and it’s a larger turnover of staff required. I get the whole give them two or three more league games and see then, but what does that tell prospective applicants? Thanks for applying but we’re seeing if we don’t really need a manager, but, if we’re in the excrement in a couple of weeks can you come save our arses? I had hoped JS would have a clear recruitment plan and be transparent but the longer it goes on the more you start to wonder. Probably the single hardest job facing an owner/owners, choosing the right people to manage the side. But whoever they are, I’d like to think they’d be told early doors that they are wanted and will be backed to the hilt.
I was there, the day Bradley Wood scored a 35 yarder!
From the black and white striped shirts To the fish in the sea You'll hear us singing Coz we are Grimsby.
You won't hear us crying But you'll hear us shout Coz we are the Grimsby And this is our chant.......... Grimsby! Grimsby! Grimsby!
I personally think it would be a mistake to give it to Shaun and Ben at this point. We’re still sitting just above relegation spots and have hit a bit of form. This goes south over next few games and two respected squad coaches are gone and it’s a larger turnover of staff required. I get the whole give them two or three more league games and see then, but what does that tell prospective applicants? Thanks for applying but we’re seeing if we don’t really need a manager, but, if we’re in the excrement in a couple of weeks can you come save our arses? I had hoped JS would have a clear recruitment plan and be transparent but the longer it goes on the more you start to wonder. Probably the single hardest job facing an owner/owners, choosing the right people to manage the side. But whoever they are, I’d like to think they’d be told early doors that they are wanted and will be backed to the hilt.
Yes and you couldn't really go through a sophisticated recruitment process then give it to someone already at the club on the basis of better results in an interim capacity. Well you could but then what is the point of Gareth Jennings, the Twenty First Group, the data analyst and anybody else they have contacted?
No doubt as time goes on they will have a succession policy but I find it very difficult to believe the caretakers will get the job at this early stage.
Yes and you couldn't really go through a sophisticated recruitment process then give it to someone already at the club on the basis of better results in an interim capacity. Well you could but then what is the point of Gareth Jennings, the Twenty First Group, the data analyst and anybody else they have contacted?
No doubt as time goes on they will have a succession policy but I find it very difficult to believe the caretakers will get the job at this early stage.
Sometimes, the best option is within the building, and sometimes it's not.
If Shaun and Ben are felt like being the best option, then they get my full support but I do feel that the fans would be less patient with them and much more critical of our transfer business in January.
If they do get the job permanently, they will need to get a coach or two in to take on some of the duties.
If we appoint Steve Morrison then it would be the worst managerial appointment in the last ten years
I think this is a bit over dramatic. His time at Cardiff didn't go too well, but his record wasn't terrible. Hornchurch are smashing their league and he currently has a 70%+ win rate. Obviously it's a relatively low level.
It's not an appointment I'd be particularly enthusiastic about but if the 21st century has told us anything, it's that appointing a manager is a complete lottery.
Bradford not getting the managers bounce here 3 down to notts
4 down now. Bradford are absolutely terrible. Notts fans singing getting sacked in the morning 🙂
In his three stints as Grimsby Town manager spanning over 10 years the club was never relegated and he also guided them to three promotions. Only 14 managers have reached 1,000 matches in charge of a Football League team by 1998 and Buckley is one of them. GOD
That would be exceptionally underwhelming. One below average season with Cardiff and currently managing at level 7 in the pyramid.
His side are top of the league by 11 points (P 14, W12 D2) and he was under difficult circumstances at Cardiff yet mustered up a 35% win rate (just slightly lower than Hursts overall win rate in his second spell here).
Said to play attacking football and he was a very good striker himself. It’d certainly be slightly left field and out of the blue but I don’t think it’s ‘exceptionally underwhelming’ at all
His side are top of the league by 11 points (P 14, W12 D2) and he was under difficult circumstances at Cardiff yet mustered up a 35% win rate (just slightly lower than Hursts overall win rate in his second spell here).
Said to play attacking football and he was a very good striker himself. It’d certainly be slightly left field and out of the blue but I don’t think it’s ‘exceptionally underwhelming’ at all
Not much point getting het up about it either way. There’s been a long and presumably diligent process and us moaning isn’t going to change anyone’s mind.
Whoever it is will get our backing and we’ll see how things pan out.
Can't see the point of commenting on potential managers. Only time will tell if they are good or bad, whatever their past records are. Looking at their win ratios on Wiki is hardly conclusive evidence either way.
Just look at PH. He's had many successes and as many failures.
His side are top of the league by 11 points (P 14, W12 D2) and he was under difficult circumstances at Cardiff yet mustered up a 35% win rate (just slightly lower than Hursts overall win rate in his second spell here).
Said to play attacking football and he was a very good striker himself. It’d certainly be slightly left field and out of the blue but I don’t think it’s ‘exceptionally underwhelming’ at all
There are good managers who are proven in the professional leagues who are still available, if we went with someone who has done below average in their only professional gig it would be exceptionally underwhelming. His current side are at a very poor level. A level where Ira Jackson Jnr got more than a goal every two games. And he was totally useless in L2, barely up to it in the NL. It’s not an indicator of anything.
There are good managers who are proven in the professional leagues who are still available, if we went with someone who has done below average in their only professional gig it would be exceptionally underwhelming. His current side are at a very poor level. A level where Ira Jackson Jnr got more than a goal every two games. And he was totally useless in L2, barely up to it in the NL. It’s not an indicator of anything.
Agree with this. It would be playing fast and loose with our Football League status and completely reckless. Not only is Morison’s record questionable at best, but he has no experience of this level.
Agree with this. It would be playing fast and loose with our Football League status and completely reckless. Not only is Morison’s record questionable at best, but he has no experience of this level.
After 4 games , two against NLN opposition, one against FGR, hardly tearing it up are they. We still look wide open at the back. We need a new manager who can bring in some competent defenders in January.
Sick of all the rumors milling about but just heard from someone that the cowley's were at today's game, did anyone else see them? Apparently set in the directors area with Jason & Debbie
Sick of all the rumors milling about but just heard from someone that the cowley's were at today's game, did anyone else see them? Apparently set in the directors area with Jason & Debbie
His side are top of the league by 11 points (P 14, W12 D2) and he was under difficult circumstances at Cardiff yet mustered up a 35% win rate (just slightly lower than Hursts overall win rate in his second spell here).
Said to play attacking football and he was a very good striker himself. It’d certainly be slightly left field and out of the blue but I don’t think it’s ‘exceptionally underwhelming’ at all
As you write Hornchurch are eleven points clear at the top of the seventh tier Isthmian League. I remember hearing he'd agreed to go there and being impressed that he just wanted to get back in management and prove his worth; so many think it's beneath them to take a job so low down.
I think he'd be an interesting appointment but would he want to leave at this time rather than get a title win on his c.v.?
Lad that works in our office has been today, just posted in our works group chat that he saw danny cowley at the game all i'm asking is did anyone else see him there? He's a good lad so i will be amazed if he's wrong but i wasn't there so just asking the question
After 4 games , two against NLN opposition, one against FGR, hardly tearing it up are they. We still look wide open at the back. We need a new manager who can bring in some competent defenders in January.
We are unbeaten in four games and three of those games we were behind, taking 4 points from a losing position and progressing to the next round of the FA cup, not a lot more they could do really. A unbeaten run builds confidence which is very important, todays point is massive especially after two down at half-time. A win next Saturday 7pts from 9pts, most of us would take that.
Shaun & Ben are building a foundation for the new manager to build on when appointed.
But JS said they’d started this process 6 weeks before PH was sacked?!
I don't think he said that at all.
What he said was that they'd been analysing how we were doing and effectively monitoring PH's performance as manager and maybe how "the data" suggested we were doing, for those 6 weeks prior to sacking PH. To help them judge whether PH was likely to, or capable of turning it around.
"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one."
We all want to win every game. As does everyone else, just ask Gareth Southgate after that dreadful performance last evening. But we have scored 13 goals in four games…..incredible A win next Saturday puts us mid table.
Could be worse….could be Bradford City…4-0 down at half time today
Think the Board should appoint a manager, but not lose S and B as they have lots to contribute but probably not yet ready for Manager roles. Too much at stake.
Think the Board should appoint a manager, but not lose S and B as they have lots to contribute but probably not yet ready for Manager roles. Too much at stake.
They can start by contributing some lessons in basic defending. We give away soft goals most weeks even against poor opposition.
Would never have worked under Jolley. Didnt like his style of football at all
He was extremely disliked as well within the club, Very arrogant
This is absolutely true - he was awful to the ping lads! I was told a story by someone who was there that a youth player accidentally kicked the ball in the direction of the managers cabin at Cheapside and it hit it when Jolley inside - he lost and completely tore into the young lad in an overly aggressive way!! Other similar stories too!!
"They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old, Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn, At the going down of the sun, and in the morning, We WILL remember them"
After 4 games , two against NLN opposition, one against FGR, hardly tearing it up are they. We still look wide open at the back. We need a new manager who can bring in some competent defenders in January.
Did we really expect them to with a squad low on confidence? Changes need to be drilled over a longer period longer than 3 weeks for the players to adhere naturally!
"They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old, Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn, At the going down of the sun, and in the morning, We WILL remember them"
Lad that works in our office has been today, just posted in our works group chat that he saw danny cowley at the game all i'm asking is did anyone else see him there? He's a good lad so i will be amazed if he's wrong but i wasn't there so just asking the question
I'm bumping this hoping it will be seen by someone who can confirm the sighting. Having turned down Bradford City for family reasons I'd be amazed if the Cowleys would be interested in the Grimsby job; but I'd be delighted if they are.
I'm bumping this hoping it will be seen by someone who can confirm the sighting. Having turned down Bradford City for family reasons I'd be amazed if the Cowleys would be interested in the Grimsby job; but I'd be delighted if they are.
Does anyone really think Danny Cowley would’ve been spotted, and sat in a crowd of about 2500 for nearly 2 hours, and nobody took a picture or more than one person has said they saw him?
Does anyone really think Danny Cowley would’ve been spotted, and sat in a crowd of about 2500 for nearly 2 hours, and nobody took a picture or more than one person has said they saw him?
We are unbeaten in four games and three of those games we were behind, taking 4 points from a losing position and progressing to the next round of the FA cup, not a lot more they could do really. A unbeaten run builds confidence which is very important, todays point is massive especially after two down at half-time. A win next Saturday 7pts from 9pts, most of us would take that.
Shaun & Ben are building a foundation for the new manager to build on when appointed.
Totally agree - let’s hope Shaun and Ben are the beneficiaries of their hard work - pretty sure the directors said they were in the frame if they did well. A case of - if not broken don’t fix it
UTM
No
Blundell Park - The Home of Grimsby Town Football Club (still)
We would be in an even worse position without the uptick in results over the last couple of weeks, so credit to them for that.
However we do need a bit of a re-boot, new manager with fresh ideas and to give the club and fans something to really get behind.
It is really disappointing to see all the media outlets describing us as league 2 strugglers again which is obviously true, yet a lot of us still cling to the hope and expectation we are at the start of a major revival.
I think we should have completed an appointment in time for the fans forum and the Sutton game, surely?
Into perspective, the last 4 teams to gain promotion from the conference to league 2, 3 off them teams are at present in the top 4 and 1 is 4th from bottom.
Into perspective, the last 4 teams to gain promotion from the conference to league 2, 3 off them teams are at present in the top 4 and 1 is 4th from bottom.
Though we had more money to spend in the window (apparently) they had more and have had for a few seasons to help them build.
Ben & Shaun need to remain part of the first team set up but a new manager will need to come in.
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
We are still conceding too many goals from poor defensive mistakes, we are in the position of having to score 2’s and 3’s to win games or get a point
That isnt going in the right direction
Completely agree. We aren’t going to win games if we are going to defend like halfwits and concede two goals a game. We haven’t lost for 4 games - jolly good, but we’ve played 3 poor opponents, conceded a sackful of soft goals and only won 2 of them. We might have stopped the rot of defeats - that’s a decent bit of progress but we are still made of butter defensively, which means we’ll continue to bump along in the lower reaches of the league despite our offensive play showing a competitive potency.
Though we had more money to spend in the window (apparently) they had more and have had for a few seasons to help them build.
Ben & Shaun need to remain part of the first team set up but a new manager will need to come in.
Why does a new manager have to come in ? Instead of throwing money at a "NAME " manager who will need time to take stock of the present squad and still not be able to guarantee success (remember Hollowhead ).why not invest in a seasoned centre back , the only position we need to improve in at the moment imo. Although at the start of the season we were quite solid at the back. I suppose with our more attacking attitude of late something had to give.
I do feel sorry for some of poster's on here , I'm glad I'm a " glass half full " kind of person. You must lead very dull lives .
Big difference between being "glass half full" and being realistic. Pearson and Davies have had 4 games, they haven't worked miracles at all. What they've done is gone back to the drawing board of how we started the season, only they haven't sorted out our defensive failings, so are they worthy of taking over full time?.on current showings, no they are not.
Why does a new manager have to come in ? Instead of throwing money at a "NAME " manager who will need time to take stock of the present squad and still not be able to guarantee success (remember Hollowhead ).why not invest in a seasoned centre back , the only position we need to improve in at the moment imo. Although at the start of the season we were quite solid at the back. I suppose with our more attacking attitude of late something had to give.
I assume by all your pro Pearson and Davies you are related to them? Happy to be corrected if wrong.
If we appointed these two, I personally think it would be another relegation for the club. Whilst they have improved the attacking side, we are woeful in defence. Your statement earlier about how happy you were that we came from two nil down is laughable - it was them that got us in that position to start with! If it had been against a team in form and not one skirting with relegation, we would have been 4 or 5 down by half time with no prospect of coming back in to the game. We need a new face to instil a bit of discipline in the back line whilst also having an attacking approach; I don't think Person and Davies are that solution.
Fenty was always accussed of going for the cheap option and it not working out, I feel you want the same here.
Lad that works in our office has been today, just posted in our works group chat that he saw danny cowley at the game all i'm asking is did anyone else see him there? He's a good lad so i will be amazed if he's wrong but i wasn't there so just asking the question
Forget that, just been shown a photo and its nothing like him ffs
Why does a new manager have to come in ? Instead of throwing money at a "NAME " manager who will need time to take stock of the present squad and still not be able to guarantee success (remember Hollowhead ).why not invest in a seasoned centre back , the only position we need to improve in at the moment imo. Although at the start of the season we were quite solid at the back. I suppose with our more attacking attitude of late something had to give.
Because though Ben & Shaun have done well they haven’t got the experience to fit the role profile Jason described on RH before the Slough game, plus though there’s still a lot of games to play as it stands we’re under threat of relegation, again other than beating a PT side in the cup and 4 points from 6 in the league there’s nothing to tell us they’d keep us up as are p1ssing goals still.
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
Nathan Rooney still third favourite according to the bookies. I posted some context previously about the size of Gibraltar and the likely standard of football there, but the ‘national’ team are currently losing 13-0 to France. Assuming it gets no worse, it equals the biggest defeat in European qualifying history (Germany v San Marino in 2006).
I don't think Pearson and Davies will get the job, nor do I think they should.
But that doesn't mean we can't say they're doing a decent job. They can be good enough to steady the ship and even get us moving up the league, but also not be appropriate for the full time role.
What we're not privy to is the extent to which the club is being sold by JS, AP and DC. It's a very different beast from when Hurst returned.
We know how much 1878 have invested in the 'little' things around the club. They have also invested in data and may be able to show managers like the Cowleys something that Bradford couldn't, for example. Who knows what Gareth Jennings has implemented or said behind the scenes.
Basically, we feel more like a 'project' than we've ever done before. We're set up for someone to come in and be given the time to implement their ideas.
I can't say for certain what's going on at Bradford but they seem to a be a club with no real plan, and just flit from one manager to the next hoping to strike it lucky at some point.
We don't want to be like that. We've got solid foundations now, and the opportunity is bigger than our current league position. We are probably more attractive to a half decent manager now than we've ever been.
That's putting the positive spin on it. I also thought today's result at Forest Green was decent. We keep them at arm's length (when it looked like they were closing the gap on us) and fighting back from 2-0 down showed bottle.
Would've been nice to have not been 2-0 down in the first place, but their first was never a pen.
We were in freefall but SP and BD have improved us in most areas bar defence. If I knew what I know now, back on the day when Hurst was sacked, I'd have taken it.
In that respect, we're taking baby steps in the right direction. I don't think it's anything more than that, for now. We certainly haven't got worse, even if some fans like us to think that.
"Don't shine that light in my face, mate - I've just lost a pint of blood."
We battered the most in-form team in the division, they’ve made pro active and early changes in every game that have changed the game and we’ve shown heart and desire to come from behind and win points.. Something that wasn’t happening.. they’ve done a good job in the circumstances. The defence is a huge concern but that’s not a quick fix. We’ve got a right back and two centre half’s really really low on confidence, I imagine if Michee was fit then he’d be starting. We need a Danny Collins to come in and grab the rest of the back 4 by the balderdash and take charge of it.
Because though Ben & Shaun have done well they haven’t got the experience to fit the role profile Jason described on RH before the Slough game, plus though there’s still a lot of games to play as it stands we’re under threat of relegation, again other than beating a PT side in the cup and 4 points from 6 in the league there’s nothing to tell us they’d keep us up as are p1ssing goals still.
Nope, nothing at all that would suggest they could keep us up! oh apart from 4 points in 6!
Lew - your first sentence 🤙 - end of. Don’t think we need a ‘superstar ‘ manager. Our current guys are doing a good job - hope they get rewarded.
Not for me, we are in too precarious position to take a chance on two coaches with next to no managerial experience. We need an experienced manager who knows League Two, and hopefully has the wherewithal to move us up the table.
Nope, nothing at all that would suggest they could keep us up! oh apart from 4 points in 6!
We're conceding goals for fun and a change from caretaker to permanent would certainly bring added pressure. Shaun and Ben have done great in steadying the ship but I don't think you would ever forgive them (or the owners) if they took over and we got relegated again.
We're conceding goals for fun and a change from caretaker to permanent would certainly bring added pressure. Shaun and Ben have done great in steadying the ship but I don't think you would ever forgive them (or the owners) if they took over and we got relegated again.
I wasn't suggesting we take a punt on the caretakers, I was mainly pointing out how ridiculous the argument was!
I’m not keen on SP and BD taking over full time but I do think they’ve managed to dispel some myths that Hursts football had engrained in peoples heads for years.
We’ve managed to move the ball quickly, we’ve had players running at their opponent, we’ve had 3 relatively entertaining games out of 4and we we’ve actually changed the course of games with positive subs. For years Hurst had many on here thinking those things simply didn’t exist in the world and people were asking too much.
Credit to them both for doing those things pretty much instantly, I’m sure over time they’d fix our other issues too but for me it’s too much of a gamble.
Not for me, we are in too precarious position to take a chance on two coaches with next to no managerial experience. We need an experienced manager who knows League Two, and hopefully has the wherewithal to move us up the table.
I shall support whomsoever the club appoints as the next manager - I'm neither for nor against any of the likely candidates. (I don't see Cowley(s) as likely having turned down Bradford)
What I'm struggling with is the logic that we shouldn't consider Shaun and Benji due to their lack of experience.
We had an experienced manager who knows League Two...and sacked him due to poor results and sterile home performances.
So it seems fair to judge S&B on those issues: Well we're 4 points from 6 in the league, which is promotion form, with a win against a top in-form team. And I've read plenty of posts on here saying how much more enjoyable the two post-Hurst home matches have been. So tick and tick (but of course it's early days).
Your final sentence is interesting: we sign this exerienced manager who knows L2...and hope for the best. If the best option (in your view, and many others) demands hope, why not hope that S&B turn out to be a good management team?
I suspect the club won't appoint Shaun and Ben, but I wouldn't consider it unduly risky. A "new face" will have new ideas, and we should remember that PH complained that the players weren't doing what he wanted them to. If the next (experienced!) manager has the same difficulty getting his/her new ideas across - we'll be back to square one.
Think only time will tell when we appoint the new guy, if it’s the managers or if in fact some of these players are just not that good as first thought.
That being said January is key, we can’t afford to waste anymore money but I’m going to take a punt and suggest some of these players don’t cut the mustard and we need to recruit to help us strive off relegation.
Think only time will tell when we appoint the new guy, if it’s the managers or if in fact some of these players are just not that good as first thought.
That being said January is key, we can’t afford to waste anymore money but I’m going to take a punt and suggest some of these players don’t cut the mustard and we need to recruit to help us strive off relegation.
Aren't alot of players on 2-3 year deals, I cant see us off loading any players unless sold. I can see a couple of new additions but i dont see major changes as i think we have a good group of players.
I feel that our players are like a jigsaw puzzle with a picture.
We have Rose at the top and Eastwood at the bottom. It's a matter of filling in the remaining 9 places to make a solid team.
I don't think you'd have a solid team with Eastwood in goal. Makes defenders too jittery as he's not very brave, commanding and is inconsistent with his decision making.
I don't think you'd have a solid team with Eastwood in goal. Makes defenders too jittery as he's not very brave, commanding and is inconsistent with his decision making.
Sorry meant Cartwright.
You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
Why does anybody take rumours on X seriously? This reporter will keep banding names about, and if he gets lucky will show the successful tweet and bin the hundred other wrong ones. God I wish they would hurry up and appoint the next one(s).
I don't know why if we get a new manager in then fans assume that Shaun and Ben won't have a role to play. I have worked at many sites where a new Production Manager, Site Manager or even Engineering Manager has come in and the chain of command further down hasn't changed. Obviously over time a new "man at the top " might feel that those under him are not up to th and job but it is rarely an immediate decision.
The Future is Black & White. "The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
I don't know why if we get a new manager in then fans assume that Shaun and Ben won't have a role to play. I have worked at many sites where a new Production Manager, Site Manager or even Engineering Manager has come in and the chain of command further down hasn't changed. Obviously over time a new "man at the top " might feel that those under him are not up to th and job but it is rarely an immediate decision.
Very true.
I very much doubt that there’s any manager at L2 level who would have a ready made coaching team. Most are likely to have no more than an assistant to hand.
How is taking four points from two league games GAMBLING, that's promotion form , do the maths !
I did and 2 league games is 4.34% of the League season. Maths? Look at the goals conceded, promotion teams generally don’t concede 2 goals per game or 92 per season.
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
I did and 2 league games is 4.34% of the League season. Maths? Look at the goals conceded, promotion teams generally don’t concede 2 goals per game or 92 per season.
Whilst I understand some fans concern about the time being taken to appoint a new manager, I can also see the owners making sure that they, as far as possible ( a new manager can also be a gamble), get the right man. JS and AP are experienced enough to understand all that is at stake and will have contacted the necessary people to advise them. I'm sure that they are also aware that a new manager will need a couple of weeks to fully assess the squad and make any necessary acquisitions when the transfer window opens. Whilst keeping the fans updated they also have to ensure that hints and references to their targets don't upset any negotiations. This could be essential if they have a candidate in mind who is already employed at another club. I , personally, would like to see a new manager in place before the end of November and for all we know, negotiations could already be taking place.
The Future is Black & White. "The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
Whilst I understand some fans concern about the time being taken to appoint a new manager, I can also see the owners making sure that they, as far as possible ( a new manager can also be a gamble), get the right man. JS and AP are experienced enough to understand all that is at stake and will have contacted the necessary people to advise them. I'm sure that they are also aware that a new manager will need a couple of weeks to fully assess the squad and make any necessary acquisitions when the transfer window opens. Whilst keeping the fans updated they also have to ensure that hints and references to their targets don't upset any negotiations. This could be essential if they have a candidate in mind who is already employed at another club. I , personally, would like to see a new manager in place before the end of November and for all we know, negotiations could already be taking place.
I think the trigger-pulling in Doncaster was more knee-jerk than people (want to) imagine. The rather cobbled-together interim I think seems to be working, and so the board are taking their time with one eye on the interim whilst putting together some kind of replacement if necessary. I don't think they are going to recruit from a "working manager" pool, as the industry is leakier than the government, so any feelers/contact made with managers who said no thanks, or those who didn't get a follow-up, leaks occur. And yet nothing. So I believe (of course that will be proved wrong or right) that a "Director of Football" is being sought and the actual coaching is done by others, enter BD and SP. The D of F will recruit, within a budget, and the coaches coach.
I think the trigger-pulling in Doncaster was more knee-jerk than people (want to) imagine. The rather cobbled-together interim I think seems to be working, and so the board are taking their time with one eye on the interim whilst putting together some kind of replacement if necessary. I don't think they are going to recruit from a "working manager" pool, as the industry is leakier than the government, so any feelers/contact made with managers who said no thanks, or those who didn't get a follow-up, leaks occur. And yet nothing. So I believe (of course that will be proved wrong or right) that a "Director of Football" is being sought and the actual coaching is done by others, enter BD and SP. The D of F will recruit, within a budget, and the coaches coach.
It wasn't knee jerk, and you are just making stuff up to suit your narrative.
I think the trigger-pulling in Doncaster was more knee-jerk than people (want to) imagine. The rather cobbled-together interim I think seems to be working, and so the board are taking their time with one eye on the interim whilst putting together some kind of replacement if necessary. I don't think they are going to recruit from a "working manager" pool, as the industry is leakier than the government, so any feelers/contact made with managers who said no thanks, or those who didn't get a follow-up, leaks occur. And yet nothing. So I believe (of course that will be proved wrong or right) that a "Director of Football" is being sought and the actual coaching is done by others, enter BD and SP. The D of F will recruit, within a budget, and the coaches coach.
Doesn't sound very knee-jerk in Stockwood's own words from the Guardian today:
"In this dialogue between head and heart you sometimes need to act to try to change your own luck. Parting with our manager Paul Hurst and assistant Chris Doig in October was such a moment. We had signed 12 players early in the summer, had a strong pre‑season and, on paper, we had one of the hardest league starts in terms of fixtures but played OK in those first four games. However, looking at the points per game (PPG) tally over the next nine-game period we were off where we thought we should have been and our form was mathematically the worst in the league.
We made a decision that over the next five games something had to change, both in the data and more subjectively in what we were experiencing watching matches. Unfortunately we remained on the same straight road that led to a defeat at Doncaster on Saturday 28 October. We lost and were ready to make the change. We had planned what we needed to do and say in the event that this game was lost. It was important that we had acted in good faith and not reacted to the first bad game, as some fans wrongly assumed, but kept our nerve and executed against an agreed plan."
Even going into the Donny match I think it was clear that the board would’ve stuck with Hurst if there had been any signs that something was changing. However the game played out exactly as the previous 4 or 5, and Hurst sat there until 87 minutes before trying to change anything. He’d also spent the last month trying to convince everyone that everything was fine and we just needed a bit of luck (we then managed to lose against Colchester after being handed a comedy own goal).
Easy to see how the board would’ve watched that scenario play out over that 6-week period come to the conclusion that a change was needed by the end. Had Hurst not been so stubborn, admitted there were failings and tried to address them, he would probably still be in a job.
Even going into the Donny match I think it was clear that the board would’ve stuck with Hurst if there had been any signs that something was changing. However the game played out exactly as the previous 4 or 5, and Hurst sat there until 87 minutes before trying to change anything. He’d also spent the last month trying to convince everyone that everything was fine and we just needed a bit of luck (we then managed to lose against Colchester after being handed a comedy own goal).
Easy to see how the board would’ve watched that scenario play out over that 6-week period come to the conclusion that a change was needed by the end. Had Hurst not been so stubborn, admitted there were failings and tried to address them, he would probably still be in a job.
His in-game decisions in that match seem even weirder now. He knew he would lose his job if he didn't get a result, yet sat on his hands for most of the game and left strikers on the bench. I'd love to know what his logic was for this.
In-game decisions very weird when you see how pro-active Ben and Shaun have been with subs - and the impact they are having Hurst is a good manager who somehow got stuck in his ways and refused to change things especially during games Subbing a couple of players at half time is never a bad thing IMO - shakes things up in the dressing room and can alter the shape and mood of a game
But his refusal to not use subs until 70/75/80 mins is/was crazy - some players were out on their feet and we desperately needed fresh legs; what is the point of having a good squad if you don't use the players?
Ben and Shaun are proving Hurst wrong with their positive action
His in-game decisions in that match seem even weirder now. He knew he would lose his job if he didn't get a result, yet sat on his hands for most of the game and left strikers on the bench. I'd love to know what his logic was for this.
In the Guardian piece, Stockwood said only 3 people knew what the outcome would be after the Donny match. I took this to mean himself, Andrew and probably Debbie. I doubt that Hurst was one of those three so wouldn't have known he would lose his job.
Doesn't sound very knee-jerk in Stockwood's own words from the Guardian today:
"In this dialogue between head and heart you sometimes need to act to try to change your own luck. Parting with our manager Paul Hurst and assistant Chris Doig in October was such a moment. We had signed 12 players early in the summer, had a strong pre‑season and, on paper, we had one of the hardest league starts in terms of fixtures but played OK in those first four games. However, looking at the points per game (PPG) tally over the next nine-game period we were off where we thought we should have been and our form was mathematically the worst in the league.
We made a decision that over the next five games something had to change, both in the data and more subjectively in what we were experiencing watching matches. Unfortunately we remained on the same straight road that led to a defeat at Doncaster on Saturday 28 October. We lost and were ready to make the change. We had planned what we needed to do and say in the event that this game was lost. It was important that we had acted in good faith and not reacted to the first bad game, as some fans wrongly assumed, but kept our nerve and executed against an agreed plan."
In-game decisions very weird when you see how pro-active Ben and Shaun have been with subs - and the impact they are having Hurst is a good manager who somehow got stuck in his ways and refused to change things especially during games Subbing a couple of players at half time is never a bad thing IMO - shakes things up in the dressing room and can alter the shape and mood of a game
But his refusal to not use subs until 70/75/80 mins is/was crazy - some players were out on their feet and we desperately needed fresh legs; what is the point of having a good squad if you don't use the players?
Ben and Shaun are proving Hurst wrong with their positive action
Yeah I think some people had seen us go so long without real in game management through the proper use of substitutes they had gotten used to it and accepted it. A continual waiting of 70 minutes before a substitute is ever used (bar the most extreme of circumstances).
Shaun and Ben have certainly reminded everyone of the power of early subs to change a game, it's a really profound and obvious immediate difference to the previous regime.
Overall I was a fan of Hurst but there is no doubt that his in-game management was a weakness. The fact he wanted to have 9 subs on the bench, giving other managers even more flexibility over him, also shows his total lack of self awareness about it.
In the Guardian piece, Stockwood said only 3 people knew what the outcome would be after the Donny match. I took this to mean himself, Andrew and probably Debbie. I doubt that Hurst was one of those three so wouldn't have known he would lose his job.
Doesn't sound very knee-jerk in Stockwood's own words from the Guardian today:
"In this dialogue between head and heart you sometimes need to act to try to change your own luck. Parting with our manager Paul Hurst and assistant Chris Doig in October was such a moment. We had signed 12 players early in the summer, had a strong pre‑season and, on paper, we had one of the hardest league starts in terms of fixtures but played OK in those first four games. However, looking at the points per game (PPG) tally over the next nine-game period we were off where we thought we should have been and our form was mathematically the worst in the league.
We made a decision that over the next five games something had to change, both in the data and more subjectively in what we were experiencing watching matches. Unfortunately we remained on the same straight road that led to a defeat at Doncaster on Saturday 28 October. We lost and were ready to make the change. We had planned what we needed to do and say in the event that this game was lost. It was important that we had acted in good faith and not reacted to the first bad game, as some fans wrongly assumed, but kept our nerve and executed against an agreed plan."
He's had some weeks to come up with the right spin. Why do I think it was a more knee-jerk than a cool decision? Nothing was in place, I mean we all laughed at JF sacking Slade on the bus, but sacking PH at Donny thats really cool is it? I'm a bit old to be taken in by PR BS. Why on earth JS is "crying" all over the Guardian I do not know. He made the right decision, for the right reasons end of. The interview at Donny is more revealing than an article "honed" to perfection. But anyway, that's not the point of my piece. I was trying to put my idea why we haven't heard a whisper from anywhere what is happening. We are probably looking in the wrong places, i.e. manager for manager replacement, when JS did hint in another way forward.
He's had some weeks to come up with the right spin. Why do I think it was a more knee-jerk than a cool decision? Nothing was in place, I mean we all laughed at JF sacking Slade on the bus, but sacking PH at Donny thats really cool is it? I'm a bit old to be taken in by PR BS. Why on earth JS is "crying" all over the Guardian I do not know. He made the right decision, for the right reasons end of. The interview at Donny is more revealing than an article "honed" to perfection. But anyway, that's not the point of my piece. I was trying to put my idea why we haven't heard a whisper from anywhere what is happening. We are probably looking in the wrong places, i.e. manager for manager replacement, when JS did hint in another way forward.
In fairness to JS, he said much of the same, and backed up his reasoning, in an interview on the Town YouTube channel the Sunday after the Donny game. He said he opted to do the deed at the ground so that:
a) it could be done in-person b) it saved Hurst and Doig the inconvenience and indignity of having to travel from Sheffield and Solihull respectively, simply to be told they no longer had a job
Having had to do it myself a few times, I can assure you there is no nice way to relieve someone of their employment, but sometimes it is the correct decision and I see no great issue with the way Stockwood handled the matter.
The Guardian piece has very little to what I have written. Did JS say that "The plan was if we didn't do well at Donny, PH would be sacked" No he didn't, therefore he made a decision on the spot after a bad game. That's Knee-Jerk isn't it?
But of course, I make things up, I'm not privy to the board's thinking, I, like everyone else on this forum try to read between the lines. Everybody on this forum is making things up.
"just making stuff up to suit your narrative" So what's my narrative then? I can't wait for your reply.
So i've been told that we are close to appointing a management team. This is from a very good source, one of my friends works for a football club and the manager of that club had applied for the job but didn't make it to final interviews and he was informed that they were due to take place last week. I assume that we'll see them potentially in this week and use Fridays fan forum as an unveiling with SP & BD taking charge Saturday.
The Guardian piece has very little to what I have written. Did JS say that "The plan was if we didn't do well at Donny, PH would be sacked" No he didn't, therefore he made a decision on the spot after a bad game. That's Knee-Jerk isn't it?
But of course, I make things up, I'm not privy to the board's thinking, I, like everyone else on this forum try to read between the lines. Everybody on this forum is making things up.
"just making stuff up to suit your narrative" So what's my narrative then? I can't wait for your reply.
My understanding from within the club was that if we lost to Doncaster PH would be toast but it we won or drew he would have still been manager after the game.
In fairness to JS, he said much of the same, and backed up his reasoning, in an interview on the Town YouTube channel the Sunday after the Donny game. He said he opted to do the deed at the ground so that:
a) it could be done in-person b) it saved Hurst and Doig the inconvenience and indignity of having to travel from Sheffield and Solihull respectively, simply to be told they no longer had a job
Having had to do it myself a few times, I can assure you there is no nice way to relieve someone of their employment, but sometimes it is the correct decision and I see no great issue with the way Stockwood handled the matter.
Oh, do stop your sob story. You have obviously misread what I wrote. You think I'm making a point of how PH was sacked from PH's personal point. I am not. My point was, if you cared to read it, the knock on effect was that an interim coach system had to be put into place and I don't think the board is looking for a replacement manager for manager, but some kind of Director of Football who buys/sells and coaches who coach. It was hinted at in the (bad audio) interview and the 12 players PH brought in weren't mentioned for nothing. Yes I do think it was knee-jerk at Donny, because if it was planned, its not great planning. What version do you want? Knee-jerk or bad planning, you can't have both.
JS sacked PH for good reasons at the right time, we are talking about what system/who will take his place. .
My understanding from within the club was that if we lost to Doncaster PH would be toast but it we won or drew he would have still been manager after the game.
So i've been told that we are close to appointing a management team. This is from a very good source, one of my friends works for a football club and the manager of that club had applied for the job but didn't make it to final interviews and he was informed that they were due to take place last week. I assume that we'll see them potentially in this week and use Fridays fan forum as an unveiling with SP & BD taking charge Saturday.
interesting choice of words Local. Was that intentional, i.e. not just a generic phrase for a new manager? Or does it imply a Director of Football + coach, or the Cowleys coming as a team, or a new manager bringing in his assistant(s)?
Oh, do stop your sob story. You have obviously misread what I wrote. You think I'm making a point of how PH was sacked from PH's personal point. I am not. My point was, if you cared to read it, the knock on effect was that an interim coach system had to be put into place and I don't think the board is looking for a replacement manager for manager, but some kind of Director of Football who buys/sells and coaches who coach. It was hinted at in the (bad audio) interview and the 12 players PH brought in weren't mentioned for nothing. Yes I do think it was knee-jerk at Donny, because if it was planned, its not great planning. What version do you want? Knee-jerk or bad planning, you can't have both.
JS sacked PH for good reasons at the right time, we are talking about what system/who will take his place. .
Sob story? It is entirely possible to have a modicum of compassion without fishing for sympathy (which I wasn’t, for what it’s worth).
I’ll be completely honest, I’m struggling to work out quite what point you’re trying to make. You might have better luck landing it if you delivered it in a more considered, less passive aggressive manner.
Oh, do stop your sob story. You have obviously misread what I wrote. You think I'm making a point of how PH was sacked from PH's personal point. I am not. My point was, if you cared to read it, the knock on effect was that an interim coach system had to be put into place and I don't think the board is looking for a replacement manager for manager, but some kind of Director of Football who buys/sells and coaches who coach. It was hinted at in the (bad audio) interview and the 12 players PH brought in weren't mentioned for nothing. Yes I do think it was knee-jerk at Donny, because if it was planned, its not great planning. What version do you want? Knee-jerk or bad planning, you can't have both.
JS sacked PH for good reasons at the right time, we are talking about what system/who will take his place. .
If they had not made a decision on Hurst (as dependant on Donny result), They couldn't have a new manager already lined up in advance. They will have already sorted who the interim would be and how they would go about recruitment. I would rather it take 6 or 7 weeks to sort out than appointing someone off a list on the back of a cigarette packet the following week.
interesting choice of words Local. Was that intentional, i.e. not just a generic phrase for a new manager? Or does it imply a Director of Football + coach, or the Cowleys coming as a team, or a new manager bringing in his assistant(s)?
I have no idea of who or what we're appointing mate, merely just that final interviews took place last week. I assume we'll be getting a manager and they'll bring an assistant and SP/BD revert back to original roles or in SP's case a potentially revised role within the coaching setup. So i'd expect an appointment this week and maybe unveiled at the fans forum or before the game Saturday.
He's had some weeks to come up with the right spin. Why do I think it was a more knee-jerk than a cool decision? Nothing was in place, I mean we all laughed at JF sacking Slade on the bus, but sacking PH at Donny thats really cool is it? I'm a bit old to be taken in by PR BS. Why on earth JS is "crying" all over the Guardian I do not know. He made the right decision, for the right reasons end of. The interview at Donny is more revealing than an article "honed" to perfection. But anyway, that's not the point of my piece. I was trying to put my idea why we haven't heard a whisper from anywhere what is happening. We are probably looking in the wrong places, i.e. manager for manager replacement, when JS did hint in another way forward.
Two questions based on your stance then;
Would you have preferred it if we’d have tapped up another manager behind PH’s back, whilst we were trying to act honourably and pragmatically? Then installed him sharpish? JS explained that they had begun conversations and planning for different scenarios/results six weeks prior to Doncaster. This allowed us to show faith in PH - giving him every chance to turn it - the right thing to do professionally and morally, but also to begin thinking about the standards, cut-offs, timings, and options if results didn’t improve. All of that is eminently sensible and pragmatic, even though it has escaped you and you’ve got yourself in a pickle.
You talk about there being a ‘silence’ - the opposite of that would have been rumour and unseemly conducting of private, strategic planning in a public forum, opening us up to all sorts of accusations of impropriety, unprofessionalism, showing our hand. Just not the way smart people do things. A dignified, considered, private, meticulous and reflective approach to the next appointment is surely far better.
I would also add - saying things like ‘why is JS crying all over the guardian?’. I mean, crass, childish…
‘You also say ‘I’m a bit old to be taken in by PR BS’. Right, which is it? It can’t be silence, and ‘PR BS’ can it. Using words like ‘knee jerk’ and ‘spin’ - we’ve been given frank explanations of the thought processes. As for ‘looking for a manager in the wrong places’. That doesn’t even mean anything. It’s just a rambling mess by that culmination. Stop digging.
So i've been told that we are close to appointing a management team. This is from a very good source, one of my friends works for a football club and the manager of that club had applied for the job but didn't make it to final interviews and he was informed that they were due to take place last week. I assume that we'll see them potentially in this week and use Fridays fan forum as an unveiling with SP & BD taking charge Saturday.
I'm calling BS on this. Applying for a management job at another club whilst being employed as a manager does not go down well, so I can't see a manager telling people that work at that club what job applications they have sent in.
You aren't going to name the club or manager because that could get people into all sorts of trouble but it's been a few weeks now, so a new appointment isn't unlikely, and in advance of the fans forum could drum up some interest in that and put a positive spin on questions.
The bee-all and end-all is that JS/AP/ DC have done such a good job to not let anyone even have a sniff of a rumour that everyone on here is just pissing into the wind.
It doesn't matter what anyone says on the matter, NOBODY knows anything
I'm calling BS on this. Applying for a management job at another club whilst being employed as a manager does not go down well, so I can't see a manager telling people that work at that club what job applications they have sent in.
You aren't going to name the club or manager because that could get people into all sorts of trouble but it's been a few weeks now, so a new appointment isn't unlikely, and in advance of the fans forum could drum up some interest in that and put a positive spin on questions.
I mean when the guy is his assistant manager, it's not un-natural as they've been a double act for a while. I'm not claiming to be ITK about who we're appointing or anything, i'm just putting 2 and 2 together about some info I was given and sharing my views on it so to call BS is rather strange. Like I said, the appointment i'd expect is close as they've concluded final interviews, I wasn't claiming to have any wild info about the chosen canidate and what day they're going to be appointed on just merely that I think it'll be this week and it happens to align with the fans forum that they keep wording ' chosen members of the managerial team will be in attendance '
Please be aware that the Fans’ Forum will not be streamed live with sole live coverage provided through BBC Radio Humberside but a full video filming of the event will be available on our YouTube channel at some stage over the following weekend.
Sob story? It is entirely possible to have a modicum of compassion without fishing for sympathy (which I wasn’t, for what it’s worth).
I’ll be completely honest, I’m struggling to work out quite what point you’re trying to make. You might have better luck landing it if you delivered it in a more considered, less passive aggressive manner.
1 My point of how PH was sacked i.e. on the spot shows haste, and I interpret it as knee-jerk. Which means the board had nothing prepared. The team travelled home with Social Media on full crap-mode with nobody knowing who was in charge. JS let it be known that nobody was in charge because he said that he would finalise the next move on Monday. He didnt say X and Y were in charge. Not good. Because the decision in Donny was not prepared nothing was in the pipeline, hence that is why we are still interim coached. The Interim Coaches are doing better than PH.
2 You accuse me of being passive aggressive because I believe sacking PH was correct whilst also pointing out how it was poorly carried out. You misinterpret, either by not reading fully or willfully because you think I don't rate your new best pal. As I remember your replies from a few weeks back you dragged your feet on the subject of PH, I could interpret that as "Not being able to make decisions" on your part, and where will that get us.
Whilst your spluttering on my last sentence think about this. JS in his Guardian article wrote "We had signed 12 players early in the summer, had a strong pre‑season and, on paper, we had one of the hardest league starts in terms of fixtures but played OK in those first four games. However, looking at the points per game (PPG) tally over the next nine-game period we were off where we thought we should have been and our form was mathematically the worst in the league." If you are one of the 12 named players, how motivational is that?
1 My point of how PH was sacked i.e. on the spot shows haste, and I interpret it as knee-jerk. Which means the board had nothing prepared. The team travelled home with Social Media on full crap-mode with nobody knowing who was in charge. JS let it be known that nobody was in charge because he said that he would finalise the next move on Monday. He didnt say X and Y were in charge. Not good. Because the decision in Donny was not prepared nothing was in the pipeline, hence that is why we are still interim coached. The Interim Coaches are doing better than PH.
2 You accuse me of being passive aggressive because I believe sacking PH was correct whilst also pointing out how it was poorly carried out. You misinterpret, either by not reading fully or willfully because you think I don't rate your new best pal. As I remember your replies from a few weeks back you dragged your feet on the subject of PH, I could interpret that as "Not being able to make decisions" on your part, and where will that get us.
Whilst your spluttering on my last sentence think about this. JS in his Guardian article wrote "We had signed 12 players early in the summer, had a strong pre‑season and, on paper, we had one of the hardest league starts in terms of fixtures but played OK in those first four games. However, looking at the points per game (PPG) tally over the next nine-game period we were off where we thought we should have been and our form was mathematically the worst in the league." If you are one of the 12 named players, how motivational is that?
Oh get a grip FFS!!... Stockwood has explained the reasoning behind the manner of relieving Paul and Chris of their duties and that it wasn't a knee jet reaction to one poor game but a culmination of poor results and poor performance levels too. You seem intent on going in with the elbows on the new owners, can I ask why?, or is it like most of the old guard that you don't like change and can't handle the fact the club is now being run in a professional way, with successful business people being at the helm?..
1 My point of how PH was sacked i.e. on the spot shows haste, and I interpret it as knee-jerk. Which means the board had nothing prepared. The team travelled home with Social Media on full crap-mode with nobody knowing who was in charge. JS let it be known that nobody was in charge because he said that he would finalise the next move on Monday. He didnt say X and Y were in charge. Not good. Because the decision in Donny was not prepared nothing was in the pipeline, hence that is why we are still interim coached. The Interim Coaches are doing better than PH.
2 You accuse me of being passive aggressive because I believe sacking PH was correct whilst also pointing out how it was poorly carried out. You misinterpret, either by not reading fully or willfully because you think I don't rate your new best pal. As I remember your replies from a few weeks back you dragged your feet on the subject of PH, I could interpret that as "Not being able to make decisions" on your part, and where will that get us.
Whilst your spluttering on my last sentence think about this. JS in his Guardian article wrote "We had signed 12 players early in the summer, had a strong pre‑season and, on paper, we had one of the hardest league starts in terms of fixtures but played OK in those first four games. However, looking at the points per game (PPG) tally over the next nine-game period we were off where we thought we should have been and our form was mathematically the worst in the league." If you are one of the 12 named players, how motivational is that?
You have a perspective, which may differ slightly from mine, and that’s fine. What I found strange, and continue to find strange with your latest post, is that your words seem to be imbued with a sense of emotion and aggression that feel out of place. Perhaps that’s not your intention, but that’s certainly how it comes across. And that’s why I accuse you of being passive aggressive; it has nothing to do with your position on Paul Hurst or Jason Stockwood.
You quip, sarcastically, that Stockwood “is my new best pal”, but I’m not sure what the basis for that is. I think, based on his time so far as co-owner, that he’s done and is doing a decent job, and I respect his professional achievements, but I have no unconditional allegiance to him. If he does or says something I disagree with then I will say as such; the handling of the revisions to the club badge being one such time I have been critical.
You also suggest that I “dragged my feet” on Hurst, but again that’s pretty baseless, isn’t it? I posted the “Hurst in or out?” poll shortly after the Colchester game, in which I stated that, regrettably, I felt it was time for a change. Up until that point, I felt he deserved the opportunity to try and turn things around, on the back of all he had achieved over the course of the last couple of seasons and his excellent record of overcoming sticky situations historically. I don’t feel such a stance was unreasonable or “dragging my feet”, as you put it. The ultimate conclusion of that poll was that almost a third of respondents still felt he deserved to stay at that time, for additional context.
Ultimately, if anyone is spluttering here, it’s not me. For what it’s worth, I don’t think this particular Stockwood article is a masterpiece by any stretch, but neither does his comment about “12 new signings” carry a critical undertone, at least as far as the players are concerned. It’s a statement of fact, and it’s merely reinforcing the notion that the manager was fully accountable for his side’s underperformance. At least that’s how I read it; if you search long enough and hard enough for negativity, though, eventually you’ll find it.
His in-game decisions in that match seem even weirder now. He knew he would lose his job if he didn't get a result, yet sat on his hands for most of the game and left strikers on the bench. I'd love to know what his logic was for this.
I honestly think he’d mentally checked out by that point. After Colchester he sounded like he’d accepted his fate and I think most (including Hurst) were surprised he was still in post the following Saturday.
You have a perspective, which may differ slightly from mine, and that’s fine. What I found strange, and continue to find strange with your latest post, is that your words seem to be imbued with a sense of emotion and aggression that feel out of place. Perhaps that’s not your intention, but that’s certainly how it comes across. And that’s why I accuse you of being passive aggressive; it has nothing to do with your position on Paul Hurst or Jason Stockwood.
You quip, sarcastically, that Stockwood “is my new best pal”, but I’m not sure what the basis for that is. I think, based on his time so far as co-owner, that he’s done and is doing a decent job, and I respect his professional achievements, but I have no unconditional allegiance to him. If he does or says something I disagree with then I will say as such; the handling of the revisions to the club badge being one such time I have been critical.
You also suggest that I “dragged my feet” on Hurst, but again that’s pretty baseless, isn’t it? I posted the “Hurst in or out?” poll shortly after the Colchester game, in which I stated that, regrettably, I felt it was time for a change. Up until that point, I felt he deserved the opportunity to try and turn things around, on the back of all he had achieved over the course of the last couple of seasons and his excellent record of overcoming sticky situations historically. I don’t feel such a stance was unreasonable or “dragging my feet”, as you put it. The ultimate conclusion of that poll was that almost a third of respondents still felt he deserved to stay at that time, for additional context.
Ultimately, if anyone is spluttering here, it’s not me. For what it’s worth, I don’t think this particular Stockwood article is a masterpiece by any stretch, but neither does his comment about “12 new signings” carry a critical undertone, at least as far as the players are concerned. It’s a statement of fact, and it’s merely reinforcing the notion that the manager was fully accountable for his side’s underperformance. At least that’s how I read it; if you search long enough and hard enough for negativity, though, eventually you’ll find it.
"imbued with a sense of emotion and aggression that feel out of place," I think sir you have the problem. If you look at everything and try to analyse every single nuance, then in the end, you have the problem. I didn't start this as you "attacked" me for having the temerity to question anything about the new regime. Now we know you can't cope with a riposte. Just because you don't understand my point linking the Donny sacking and the fact we don't have anything in place, you don't have to get personal. I get personal if/when I'm prodded with a sharp stick. I don't recall prodding you.
And finally, what was the point of a 4 week later article by JS? Up to that article, I was quite happy with JS/New Regime. The article puzzled me in that JS made out that after studying "Data" " Evidence-Based Thinking" he came to the conclusion that we were near the bottom of the league. By actually watching the games we were playing, some games were awful. That PH had recruited 12 new players to augment the team, and this is what we got. All he had to do was read The Fishy and get it for free.
"imbued with a sense of emotion and aggression that feel out of place," I think sir you have the problem. If you look at everything and try to analyse every single nuance, then in the end, you have the problem. I didn't start this as you "attacked" me for having the temerity to question anything about the new regime. Now we know you can't cope with a riposte. Just because you don't understand my point linking the Donny sacking and the fact we don't have anything in place, you don't have to get personal. I get personal if/when I'm prodded with a sharp stick. I don't recall prodding you.
And finally, what was the point of a 4 week later article by JS? Up to that article, I was quite happy with JS/New Regime. The article puzzled me in that JS made out that after studying "Data" " Evidence-Based Thinking" he came to the conclusion that we were near the bottom of the league. By actually watching the games we were playing, some games were awful. That PH had recruited 12 new players to augment the team, and this is what we got. All he had to do was read The Fishy and get it for free.
Could you too maybe do this somewhere else. It’s quite frustrating to keep visiting this thread only to find it clogged up by each of you wanting to have the last word in your own personal disagreement.
"imbued with a sense of emotion and aggression that feel out of place," I think sir you have the problem. If you look at everything and try to analyse every single nuance, then in the end, you have the problem. I didn't start this as you "attacked" me for having the temerity to question anything about the new regime. Now we know you can't cope with a riposte. Just because you don't understand my point linking the Donny sacking and the fact we don't have anything in place, you don't have to get personal. I get personal if/when I'm prodded with a sharp stick. I don't recall prodding you.
And finally, what was the point of a 4 week later article by JS? Up to that article, I was quite happy with JS/New Regime. The article puzzled me in that JS made out that after studying "Data" " Evidence-Based Thinking" he came to the conclusion that we were near the bottom of the league. By actually watching the games we were playing, some games were awful. That PH had recruited 12 new players to augment the team, and this is what we got. All he had to do was read The Fishy and get it for free.
No one has attacked you, nor have I resorted to personal insults. I think you need to read the exchange back from the beginning, because I don’t think it’s played out quite how you seem to think it has.
Anyway, I think we’ve both expended enough time and energy on this one. I’ll leave it here. Time to get the thread back on track.
Could you too maybe do this somewhere else. It’s quite frustrating to keep visiting this thread only to find it clogged up by each of you wanting to have the last word in your own personal disagreement.
People asking to state the sources is frankly ridiculous, this is why I didn’t bother posting anymore during transfer window as some can get arsey when you don’t name the source.
Things are said in confidence generally and to be fair take most with a pinch of salt, if they turn out to be right then just give some kudos.
23 days gone and still counting. Hopefully, by this time next week, we will know.
Never recruited a football manager but 23 days is nothing in a recruitment process. Due diligence, references etc. it is a long process. Also even your targets are not always as they seem or one surprising candidate is much better than you thought. In my opinion, the owners are right to take some time with this but the new manager needs enough time to assess the squad before the transfer window as we need defenders utm
23 days gone and still counting. Hopefully, by this time next week, we will know.
Gut feel still tells me it’ll be in the next few days. I’m fairly sure the owners wouldn’t allow themselves to be rushed by an arbitrary deadline, however you’d imagine the fans forum on Friday will be more enlightening, and slightly less awkward, with a new manager on board.
That said, if there’s something imminent inside the next 48 hours or so, they’re keeping a tight lid on it. Gone are the days of the likes of Holloway mouthing off on national TV before rocking up at the club.
The owners have got to get this appointment right, otherwise the Fishy will go barmy.
To be fair they have tried to be as thorough as possible, so that's all they can do. None of us will know if it was the correct call until the months go by. That's the appeal though isn't it, none of us know football outcomes.
Mostly generic footballing small talk, but inferred that turning down the Bradford job was less about geography, but just didn’t feel quite right (despite being a massive club, 20,000 crowds in the 4th tier, yada yada).
No reference to the Town job so far, and doesn’t sound as if that question will be forthcoming.
Mostly generic footballing small talk, but inferred that turning down the Bradford job was less about geography, but just didn’t feel quite right (despite being a massive club, 20,000 crowds in the 4th tier, yada yada).
No reference to the Town job so far, and doesn’t sound as if that question will be forthcoming.
So probably met Ryan Sparks and thought ‘no way am I working for this d8ck’
Oh get a grip FFS!!... Stockwood has explained the reasoning behind the manner of relieving Paul and Chris of their duties and that it wasn't a knee jet reaction to one poor game but a culmination of poor results and poor performance levels too. You seem intent on going in with the elbows on the new owners, can I ask why?, or is it like most of the old guard that you don't like change and can't handle the fact the club is now being run in a professional way, with successful business people being at the helm?..
1 No need for profanity. 2 I do understand that it was a culmination of poor performance. What I cannot abide is that it was done in such a way as to "upset" the team "balance" as they didn't know for some time who was in charge. They should have waited until the next home match or kept the two coaches behind and gave them their new orders, all is smooth. But it was knee-jerk, and I'm allowed an opinion. Then follow that with a piece in The Guardian full of "psychobabble" that might turn you on but for me its BBB. 3 Stop throwing accusations at me as you have no knowledge of my thoughts on the new regime. For a " professional way, with successful business people" it was poorly done.
1 No need for profanity. 2 I do understand that it was a culmination of poor performance. What I cannot abide is that it was done in such a way as to "upset" the team "balance" as they didn't know for some time who was in charge. They should have waited until the next home match or kept the two coaches behind and gave them their new orders, all is smooth. But it was knee-jerk, and I'm allowed an opinion. Then follow that with a piece in The Guardian full of "psychobabble" that might turn you on but for me its BBB. 3 Stop throwing accusations at me as you have no knowledge of my thoughts on the new regime. For a " professional way, with successful business people" it was poorly done.
Anything else I can help you with?
You’re allowed an opinion, but it does suffer from the material disadvantage of being factually wrong.
1 No need for profanity. 2 I do understand that it was a culmination of poor performance. What I cannot abide is that it was done in such a way as to "upset" the team "balance" as they didn't know for some time who was in charge. They should have waited until the next home match or kept the two coaches behind and gave them their new orders, all is smooth. But it was knee-jerk, and I'm allowed an opinion. Then follow that with a piece in The Guardian full of "psychobabble" that might turn you on but for me its BBB. 3 Stop throwing accusations at me as you have no knowledge of my thoughts on the new regime. For a " professional way, with successful business people" it was poorly done.
If the Cowley’s are available and open to coming to us, then it’s no brainer for me.
I don't know if it's a frequency illusion, but Danny Cowley seems to be appearing in the media very regularly talking about opportunities which suggests he definitely wants a job.
His next job is probably a key one for him, and there is a lot of discontent from Bradford fans about how they are being run.
I said when Hurst left that Danny Cowley was who I wanted. Whether the board want him, or he wants us, is another story.
2 I do understand that it was a culmination of poor performance. What I cannot abide is that it was done in such a way as to "upset" the team "balance" as they didn't know for some time who was in charge. They should have waited until the next home match or kept the two coaches behind and gave them their new orders, all is smooth. But it was knee-jerk, and I'm allowed an opinion. Then follow that with a piece in The Guardian full of "psychobabble" that might turn you on but for me its BBB.
Reference who was in charge pretty sure this was announced to all players and staff at a meeting held at Cheapside the day after the sackings so less than 24 hours not knowing who was in charge!!
2 I do understand that it was a culmination of poor performance. What I cannot abide is that it was done in such a way as to "upset" the team "balance" as they didn't know for some time who was in charge. They should have waited until the next home match or kept the two coaches behind and gave them their new orders, all is smooth. But it was knee-jerk, and I'm allowed an opinion. Then follow that with a piece in The Guardian full of "psychobabble" that might turn you on but for me its BBB.
Reference who was in charge pretty sure this was announced to all players and staff at a meeting held at Cheapside the day after the sackings so less than 24 hours not knowing who was in charge!!
Yeah, and it "upset the team balance" to such an extent that they have won 2 and drawn 2, scoring 13 goals.
Anyone else starting to think we are in for a huge anticlimax
How can it possibly take best part of a month to appoint a new manager, please make me eat humble pie sick of haddock been in Steels every day for weeks hoping for some news
It’s taken a while now but in fairness to the owners they said from the start this would take a few weeks. Results have improved so the situation isn’t exactly desperate, although the longer it goes on the longer yet another transition period will feel for the players.
I’ve a feeling we’re probably quite far down the track with things now and I reckon an appointment will come right out of the blue.
It’s taken a while now but in fairness to the owners they said from the start this would take a few weeks. Results have improved so the situation isn’t exactly desperate, although the longer it goes on the longer yet another transition period will feel for the players.
I’ve a feeling we’re probably quite far down the track with things now and I reckon an appointment will come right out of the blue.
Genuinely don’t think we’re any closer to appointing anyone!!
There seems to be a lot of unhappiness about how long it’s taken to appoint a new manager. It doesn’t seem a long time to me. Anyone know how long it’s taken in the past?
I’d imagine there is at least a week needed to get a shortlist of interested candidates, maybe longer.
Then there would be an initial set of interviews. This could take a week at least to organise and complete.
After that, I’d imagine the Board would want a closer look at 2-3 candidates. They’d maybe be asked to watch the team, put together a presentation on their vision for the team etc.
After that, if an offer is made it takes a few days to negotiate terms and finalize a contract.
To do this properly should take at least 4-5 weeks, probably longer. I am a director at a decent sized company and the recruitment process took 2-3 months.
So far, it’s been three and a bit weeks. If someone had been appointed already, I’d be worried about the thoroughness of the process
There seems to be a lot of unhappiness about how long it’s taken to appoint a new manager. It doesn’t seem a long time to me. Anyone know how long it’s taken in the past?
I’d imagine there is at least a week needed to get a shortlist of interested candidates, maybe longer.
Then there would be an initial set of interviews. This could take a week at least to organise and complete.
[/b]After that, I’d imagine the Board would want a closer look at 2-3 candidates. They’d maybe be asked to watch the team, put together a presentation on their vision for the team etc.[b]
After that, if an offer is made it takes a few days to negotiate terms and finalize a contract.
To do this properly should take at least 4-5 weeks, probably longer. I am a director at a decent sized company and the recruitment process took 2-3 months.
So far, it’s been three and a bit weeks. If someone had been appointed already, I’d be worried about the thoroughness of the process
I very much doubt this will be part of the progress.
There seems to be a lot of unhappiness about how long it’s taken to appoint a new manager. It doesn’t seem a long time to me. Anyone know how long it’s taken in the past?
I’d imagine there is at least a week needed to get a shortlist of interested candidates, maybe longer.
Then there would be an initial set of interviews. This could take a week at least to organise and complete.
After that, I’d imagine the Board would want a closer look at 2-3 candidates. They’d maybe be asked to watch the team, put together a presentation on their vision for the team etc.
After that, if an offer is made it takes a few days to negotiate terms and finalize a contract.
To do this properly should take at least 4-5 weeks, probably longer. I am a director at a decent sized company and the recruitment process took 2-3 months.
So far, it’s been three and a bit weeks. If someone had been appointed already, I’d be worried about the thoroughness of the process
Not many football managerial appointments take this long. Whether that’s right or wrong is a matter of opinion. Myself, I’d be pretty surprised if the impasse lasts much longer.
I very much doubt this will be part of the progress.
From what I can see of Jason and Andrew I would be very surprised if something like this wasn’t part of the process. Do we want a new manager selected over fish and chips and a chat like Fenty and Holloway? This would be 100% standard in a senior business appointment.
Genuinely don’t think we’re any closer to appointing anyone!!
That’s because you haven’t seen it. Just like a lot (including me) thought they weren’t ever going to get rid of Hurst, when in fact it was 6 weeks in the making.
There seems to be a lot of unhappiness about how long it’s taken to appoint a new manager. It doesn’t seem a long time to me. Anyone know how long it’s taken in the past?
- 7 days between Holloway leaving and Hurst being appointed
- A whopping 46 days between Jolley’s sacking and Holloway’s appointment, but God only knows what kind of shenanigans went on during those negotiations
- 19 days between Slade’s exit and Jolley’s arrival
- Slade was appointed the day after Bignot was sacked
- Bignot was appointed 14 days after Hurst left for Shrewsbury
- Scott and Hurst were appointed 30 days after Woods was sacked
Can’t be bothered going back any further than that. Not withstanding the fact that all of the above were, technically at least, appointments from the Fenty era, it’s clear there’s no right or wrong answer as to how long the process takes. Each managerial exit, our circumstances at the time and who we ended up appointing (and why) were so different, it’s hard to compare one to the other.
I think it’s well remembered that Scott and Hurst were by no means first choice. Two or three managers knocked us back; including Kidderminster’s Steve Burr and the late Justin Edinburgh, if memory serves.
Bignot on the other hand was already known to Fenty having been heavily involved in Bogle’s transfer to Town. No need for psychometric testing there, eh John?
Slade, as we know, was Fenty’s mate and had clearly been lined-up after several Town players begged Fenty to sack Bignot. Who was the last manager, prior to Bignot, to sign off from Town management duty with a win? Answers on a postcard.
Jolley, like Scott and Hurst, seemingly got the job when no one else wanted it. We looked destined for another relegation at the time, and so Fenty appeared to go with the option most popular with Town fans on the Fishy and social media. It wouldn’t be his fault then, would it? Perversely, it seems our John made his best decisions when raiding the dustbin.
Holloway, fúcking Ian Scott Holloway. I’ve said enough on that absolute king of cúnts. He wasn’t new to Fenty, though. They’d met before we appointed Newell.
And then Hurst again. He wasn’t exactly new to anyone at GTFC at that point, was he?
If there’s a moral to this story, and there may be none since we know that the modus operandi of our current owners and the previous regime are very different, it’s that it’s quicker and easier when you happen to know the person you’re going to appoint, on some personal level.
Still relatively green in footballing terms, you’d imagine Stockwood and Pettit would have gone into this process without too many personal relationships with prospective candidates. At least not readily available ones. Perhaps they shared a glass of Shiraz with Roberto De Zerbi in Brighton, but since he’s currently being touted as the next Real Madrid boss, he might have a tough choice to make in the coming days / weeks.
Is it reasonable that the owners want to take their time making their first proper managerial appointment, especially when almost every potential option is personally new to them? Surely it is. I get that people want someone in at soon; I’d love an exciting appointment to happen tomorrow. Maybe it will, maybe it won’t. But if not, I think all we are really seeing is sensible diligence being taken by smart but still relatively inexperienced owners, with a backdrop of improved performances and results owing to our interim managers.
Sometimes in life the explanations are a lot simpler and more mundane than the conspiracy theories.
From what I can see of Jason and Andrew I would be very surprised if something like this wasn’t part of the process. Do we want a new manager selected over fish and chips and a chat like Fenty and Holloway? This would be 100% standard in a senior business appointment.
I understand were you are coming when recruiting in the business sector, but football is a whole different ball game. No other business would allow to operate at the level of debt within football, half of the 92 clubs are operating at a loss or technically in solvent, but football does.
The process of recruiting in the business sector to recruiting a football manager are totally different.
How long do you think this part of the process would take? After that, I’d imagine the Board would want a closer look at 2-3 candidates. They’d maybe be asked to watch the team, put together a presentation on their vision for the team etc.
They are more than 11 players in the squad, how would they be able to evaulate all the players, they need to see the players play in a competitive game. Then going ask a football manager prepare and present a presentation their vision for the team etc are you asking them to prepare a powerpoint presentation or verbal present their vision. Then these would need to be looked or listened to by the personnel involved in recruiting the new manager.
Also most managers now employ agents so the process of negotiate terms and finalize a contract, maybe further complicated by additional third party being involved.
So yes in business sector you can follow a set procedures in recruiting personnel, when you start to breaking it down in you guideline, they so more variables involved when recruiting a football manager.
Whatever the process or the time taken in recruiting the new manager, hopefully they get the right person, to take us to the next part of five year plan, but nothing is certain.
Slade, as we know, was Fenty’s mate and had clearly been lined-up after several Town players begged Fenty to sack Bignot. Who was the last manager, prior to Bignot, to sign off from Town management duty with a win? Answers on a postcard.
Holloway, fúcking Ian Scott Holloway. I’ve said enough on that absolute king of cúnts.
I know you’re not the only one who still does this, but is there really any need for this kind of thing?
What exactly did Ian Holloway do that makes abusing him in this way acceptable? If you met him would you say that to his face? I doubt it, so why say that on here?
It’s funny that Ian Holloway is a swear word to many because he assembled a terrible squad and left us with 19 points from 19 matches in 20th place whilst having to work under Fenty.
Whereas Paul Hurst assembled what most believe to be a good squad with excellent owners behind him and left us with 14 points from 16 games in 21st and is a legend and nobody has a bad word to say about him. I suppose after 34 months he nearly got us back to where we were when Holloway left.
Ian Holloway didn’t fail deliberately. The spite still directed at him by numerous people within our fan base is pathetic. It’s bizarre how many people are still so bitter about him.
So in summary it’s okay to think he’s a terrible manager and think he did a poor job at Town, but quit with the nasty personal insults to a guy with an incredible track record in football management.
I know you’re not the only one who still does this, but is there really any need for this kind of thing?
What exactly did Ian Holloway do that makes abusing him in this way acceptable? If you met him would you say that to his face? I doubt it, so why say that on here?
It’s funny that Ian Holloway is a swear word to many because he assembled a terrible squad and left us with 19 points from 19 matches in 20th place whilst having to work under Fenty.
Whereas Paul Hurst assembled what most believe to be a good squad with excellent owners behind him and left us with 14 points from 16 games in 21st and is a legend and nobody has a bad word to say about him. I suppose after 34 months he nearly got us back to where we were when Holloway left.
Ian Holloway didn’t fail deliberately. The spite still directed at him by numerous people within our fan base is pathetic. It’s bizarre how many people are still so bitter about him.
So in summary it’s okay to think he’s a terrible manager and think he did a poor job at Town, but quit with the nasty personal insults to a guy with an incredible track record in football management.
Open your eyes Golly.... Its nothing to do with all of the above, the man was a fraud. Holloway, where do you start, £100k promise that ended up being £500, Fenty being the best and most honest chairman he'd worked for, Alex May is found out and he couldn't get away quick enough... So, where does our anger towards him come from, see above!..
I know you’re not the only one who still does this, but is there really any need for this kind of thing?
What exactly did Ian Holloway do that makes abusing him in this way acceptable? If you met him would you say that to his face? I doubt it, so why say that on here?
It’s funny that Ian Holloway is a swear word to many because he assembled a terrible squad and left us with 19 points from 19 matches in 20th place whilst having to work under Fenty.
Whereas Paul Hurst assembled what most believe to be a good squad with excellent owners behind him and left us with 14 points from 16 games in 21st and is a legend and nobody has a bad word to say about him. I suppose after 34 months he nearly got us back to where we were when Holloway left.
Ian Holloway didn’t fail deliberately. The spite still directed at him by numerous people within our fan base is pathetic. It’s bizarre how many people are still so bitter about him.
So in summary it’s okay to think he’s a terrible manager and think he did a poor job at Town, but quit with the nasty personal insults to a guy with an incredible track record in football management.
Maybe you care more about his exploits at Palace or Blackpool than some on here, others aren’t as quick to forgive. Ignoring the fact that he was a shameless self-publicist, most can’t forgive that he plated Fenty’s ringpiece until the absolute dying days of that empire, told everyone how he was in it for the long haul then resigned - on twitter - about two days later once it became apparent his mate was out the door. Then you’ve got the tale of the vanishing £100k investment that disappeared into the ether with Alex May and his property business, mysteriously.
Some people forget just how bad things were at the time.
Re: the £100,000 investment. His failure to sell his house near Bath to fund the share purchase just resulted in Jason & Andrew having to spend £50,000 less each buying up shares when they bought the club.
The real truth is he’s a decent guy who tried his best under incredibly difficult circumstances and ultimately failed. He didn’t do it deliberately. And if you’re still bitter about it nearly 3 years later when we’re sat lower in the table than we were when he resigned then it’s generally a bit sad.
He was in charge of the football side of the club, Fenty takes 100% responsibility for the Alex May episode.
And remember he resigned. He didn’t wait around for the sack and a pay off. He walked away with nothing.
Re: the £100,000 investment. His failure to sell his house near Bath to fund the share purchase just resulted in Jason & Andrew having to spend £50,000 less each buying up shares when they bought the club.
The real truth is he’s a decent guy who tried his best under incredibly difficult circumstances and ultimately failed. He didn’t do it deliberately. And if you’re still bitter about it nearly 3 years later when we’re sat lower in the table than we were when he resigned then it’s generally a bit sad.
He was in charge of the football side of the club, Fenty takes 100% responsibility for the Alex May episode.
And remember he resigned. He didn’t wait around for the sack and a pay off. He walked away with nothing.
Re: the £100,000 investment. His failure to sell his house near Bath to fund the share purchase just resulted in Jason & Andrew having to spend £50,000 less each buying up shares when they bought the club.
The real truth is he’s a decent guy who tried his best under incredibly difficult circumstances and ultimately failed. He didn’t do it deliberately. And if you’re still bitter about it nearly 3 years later when we’re sat lower in the table than we were when he resigned then it’s generally a bit sad.
He was in charge of the football side of the club, Fenty takes 100% responsibility for the Alex May episode.
And remember he resigned. He didn’t wait around for the sack and a pay off. He walked away with nothing.
Personally I enjoyed his football first Season the awaydays at Bradford and Scunny were amazing with huge vocal Town followings.I recall his mate died and he seemed to just lose his spark.The other factor I'm pretty sure Fenty Day and the rest wrongly assumed the next season wouldn't happen due to covid so never bothered prepping properly?
Re: the £100,000 investment. His failure to sell his house near Bath to fund the share purchase just resulted in Jason & Andrew having to spend £50,000 less each buying up shares when they bought the club.
The real truth is he’s a decent guy who tried his best under incredibly difficult circumstances and ultimately failed. He didn’t do it deliberately. And if you’re still bitter about it nearly 3 years later when we’re sat lower in the table than we were when he resigned then it’s generally a bit sad.
He was in charge of the football side of the club, Fenty takes 100% responsibility for the Alex May episode.
And remember he resigned. He didn’t wait around for the sack and a pay off. He walked away with nothing.
Decent guy?! Liar, Conman, Charlatan, Bullshitter, Self Centred. Ran away. Cant stand the bloke
I think that’s because he’d be easily discounted. He will surely see himself as a championship/prem manager who wouldn’t bother looking at the lower reaches of L2.
Re: the £100,000 investment. His failure to sell his house near Bath to fund the share purchase just resulted in Jason & Andrew having to spend £50,000 less each buying up shares when they bought the club.
The real truth is he’s a decent guy who tried his best under incredibly difficult circumstances and ultimately failed. He didn’t do it deliberately. And if you’re still bitter about it nearly 3 years later when we’re sat lower in the table than we were when he resigned then it’s generally a bit sad.
He was in charge of the football side of the club, Fenty takes 100% responsibility for the Alex May episode.
And remember he resigned. He didn’t wait around for the sack and a pay off. He walked away with nothing.
He lifted us when he first came in, I think COVID affected him, but he was bigging our young players up well beyond their ability for his own personal gain too. Louis Boyd, our youngest ever player and goalscorer, now playing as a left back for Cleethorpes Town.
I can go on and on, but I won't because it still makes me very angry.
Re: the £100,000 investment. His failure to sell his house near Bath to fund the share purchase just resulted in Jason & Andrew having to spend £50,000 less each buying up shares when they bought the club.
The real truth is he’s a decent guy who tried his best under incredibly difficult circumstances and ultimately failed. He didn’t do it deliberately. And if you’re still bitter about it nearly 3 years later when we’re sat lower in the table than we were when he resigned then it’s generally a bit sad.
He was in charge of the football side of the club, Fenty takes 100% responsibility for the Alex May episode.
And remember he resigned. He didn’t wait around for the sack and a pay off. He walked away with nothing.
Correct, he did resign but left us in the lurch. Any decent manager would say to his chairman ( be it Fenty or others) 'I'm sorry I cannot continue for XYZ reasons'. Please find another manager and I'll try my best to carry on until you find a replacement. Holloway didn't and walked away.
You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
Correct, he did resign but left us in the lurch. Any decent manager would say to his chairman ( be it Fenty or others) 'I'm sorry I cannot continue for XYZ reasons'. Please find another manager and I'll try my best to carry on until you find a replacement. Holloway didn't and walked away.
Plus I think it’s interesting that he’s not had any sort of managerial job since he walked away. To me that suggests that within the football world itself it’s common knowledge of how he lied to us all and generally how badly he behaved. No one seems to want to touch him with a barge pole and I don’t think that’s a coincidence.
Re: the £100,000 investment. His failure to sell his house near Bath to fund the share purchase just resulted in Jason & Andrew having to spend £50,000 less each buying up shares when they bought the club.
The real truth is he’s a decent guy who tried his best under incredibly difficult circumstances and ultimately failed. He didn’t do it deliberately. And if you’re still bitter about it nearly 3 years later when we’re sat lower in the table than we were when he resigned then it’s generally a bit sad.
He was in charge of the football side of the club, Fenty takes 100% responsibility for the Alex May episode.
And remember he resigned. He didn’t wait around for the sack and a pay off. He walked away with nothing.
A manager is appointed, put on the board (IIRC?) and promises a 6-figure share purchase , arranged by the owner/Regen portfolio holder at the Council just as the town was to be garnished with millions of pounds of pork-barrel redevelopment cash. The guy’s in post for almost a year and it all comes crashing down when the whole murky scenario starts playing out in public. But he’s a good guy deep down. Of course.
Just unrivalled levels of credulity. On the face of it, it would be easy to reach the conclusion that Holloway was just another shady actor in that whole sordid affair who saw the club and the area as an opportunity for personal enrichment and cut ties when those avenues closed off.
I can forgive the relegation, not his fault ultimately, but his name will always be in that list with Fenty, Day & Kapikanya. A champion bullshítter.
A manager is appointed, put on the board (IIRC?) and promises a 6-figure share purchase , arranged by the owner/Regen portfolio holder at the Council just as the town was to be garnished with millions of pounds of pork-barrel redevelopment cash. The guy’s in post for almost a year and it all comes crashing down when the whole murky scenario starts playing out in public. But he’s a good guy deep down. Of course.
Just unrivalled levels of credulity. On the face of it, it would be easy to reach the conclusion that Holloway was just another shady actor in that whole sordid affair who saw the club and the area as an opportunity for personal enrichment and cut ties when those avenues closed off.
I can forgive the relegation, not his fault ultimately, but his name will always be in that list with Fenty, Day & Kapikanya. A champion bullshítter.
There we are, in a nutshell. I can always forgive people for poor footballing decisions, but Holloway was the hypotenuse in a triangle of deceit that could have wiped out 145 years of history, all borne out of personal greed.
It’ll be a cold, cold day in hell before I apologise for calling Holloway a cúnt, chiefly because he is.
And remember he got the club fined for breaching Covid rules over a game of darts.
I guess that wasn't deliberate either.
Whilst I can see the appointment of Holloway at the time was a great thing and brought a real positive vibe to the club and area it ultimately went wrong quickly both on and off the pitch.
The man himself takes the bulk of the blame for that.
His willingness be be a PR dream unravelled him when you scratched beneath the surface.
Re: the £100,000 investment. His failure to sell his house near Bath to fund the share purchase just resulted in Jason & Andrew having to spend £50,000 less each buying up shares when they bought the club.
The real truth is he’s a decent guy who tried his best under incredibly difficult circumstances and ultimately failed. He didn’t do it deliberately. And if you’re still bitter about it nearly 3 years later when we’re sat lower in the table than we were when he resigned then it’s generally a bit sad.
He was in charge of the football side of the club, Fenty takes 100% responsibility for the Alex May episode.
And remember he resigned. He didn’t wait around for the sack and a pay off. He walked away with nothing.
Almost like he knew what was about to become public knowledge regards Alex May and wanted out before he could be tarred with that brush publicly. Allegedly.
By the end, it became clear that Holloway didn't come here for footballing reasons.
Whatever it was that Fenty & May were up to, Holloway wanted a slice. He was on the board of directors, remember. He'd have had sight of everything that was going on/being planned.
When it all came to light, he ran away and washed his hands of it.
"Don't shine that light in my face, mate - I've just lost a pint of blood."
By the end, it became clear that Holloway didn't come here for footballing reasons.
Whatever it was that Fenty & May were up to, Holloway wanted a slice. He was on the board of directors, remember. He'd have had sight of everything that was going on/being planned.
When it all came to light, he ran away and washed his hands of it.
Let’s also not forget that, at the time it came to light that Alex May was being courted by Fenty et al, he’d have been one of only 15 or so non-footballing staff inside BP. There’s absolutely no possible argument that he couldn’t have known; he did, and it’s why he was here.
If GTFC beat Sutton on Saturday, get a draw or a win at MK Dons on Tuesday evening & do something at Oxford on Saturday 2 December (FA Cup round 2) playing attacking football that's entertaining, there will be no new manager coming in, Pearson & Davies will get the job. That's when a decision i believe will be made.
Enjoyed that read, and can certainly imagine him getting on with the board based on it.
If people want someone that has had success at this level, then he's a pretty bloody good option.
So did I, very insightful into the life of a L2 Manager and the burdens many of them have, or choose, to carry.
Agree that he sounds like a good fit, particularly with Jason, and has the right experience before and his anecdote on Steve Holland demonstrates that getting sacked previously does not prevent you from being successful elsewhere and having a great career.
Batch, Crombie, Moore K, Wiggington, Cumming, Waters, Bonnyman, Ford, Emson, Drinkell, Whymark. Love you all, You are the reason I'm on here. You've had help from Todd, Handyside, Futcher P, Groves, Mendonca, Macca etc etc etc. Up The Mariners!!!!!!!!!
Little read up on the bookies new odds on favourite.
Enjoyable read and shows the importance of the work going on behind the scenes at Town to put a structure in place so that everyone has the chance to focus on the core parts of their work
Based on the movement on the exchanges, it's not money put on Artell either. Seems the bookies know something and have shortened his price.
It’s certainly the first time we’ve seen such a clear divide between a “favourite” and the next external name. Artell (2/5) currently 20 times shorter than Cowley, Morison and Rooney (all at 8-1).
It’s certainly the first time we’ve seen such a clear divide between a “favourite” and the next external name. Artell (2/5) currently 20 times shorter than Cowley, Morison and Rooney (all at 8-1).
Yeah it's probably a good indication that he's very much in the frame for the job. I'd expect us to move quickly to announce if there's anything in it and based on what I can see on the exchanges there's no significant sort of money come for him to prompt a shift like this, especially given everyone else is now a significant outsider. Bookies have shortened him probably due to some information they've attained.
Nice read, but 18 months out of work, when there will have been dozens of suitable jobs come up? Hmmm. The least exciting of all the serious names mentioned imho
Nice read, but 18 months out of work, when there will have been dozens of suitable jobs come up? Hmmm. The least exciting of all the serious names mentioned imho
How do you know who the serious names are? Nobody has any idea who they've interviewed or who's applied.
Nice read, but 18 months out of work, when there will have been dozens of suitable jobs come up? Hmmm. The least exciting of all the serious names mentioned imho
Without reading it again, pretty sure he said he had turned down jobs during this period although I could be mistaken. If you think about the Crewe model of developing young players that is probably another plus from our board’s perspective so I can understand why he may be well in the reckoning.
Sometimes the least exciting option can prove to be the most enjoyable but as with any appointment made only time will tell. Being as I don’t particularly have a preferred choice, especially after welcoming the appointment of Holloway with a high level of euphoria, it would be an appointment I am very comfortable with and hopefully the excitement will come later watching us climb the league.
He certainly said he was burned out and needed a break. Doesn't sound like he''s just been sat on his bottom in that time either.
For me though, the key here is that he's a young manager that's recently been promoted out of league two with a team that wouldn't have had a big budget.
And he has a history of working with the youth/giving youngsters a chance.
And he's from Rotherham so probably loves Meggies - hah.
He certainly said he was burned out and needed a break. Doesn't sound like he''s just been sat on his bottom in that time either.
For me though, the key here is that he's a young manager that's recently been promoted out of league two with a team that wouldn't have had a big budget.
And he has a history of working with the youth/giving youngsters a chance.
And he's from Rotherham so probably loves Meggies - hah.
I seem to remember a few years back Artell said in an interview that Crewe would beat town because they were the better team. It annoyed some on here but he was proven right as they beat us!
Nice read, but 18 months out of work, when there will have been dozens of suitable jobs come up? Hmmm. The least exciting of all the serious names mentioned imho
He's one of the least exciting but one of the soundest choices. There is something slightly comical in his appearance and voice but that really shouldn't matter. Give him time and I believe he'd lead Grimsby Town to League One.
Luke Williams & Des Buckingham both went odds on for the Oxford & Lincoln jobs respectively a day or so before the manager was announced and neither ended up with the jobs. I’m still taking the bookies odds with a pinch of salt.
I seem to remember a few years back Artell said in an interview that Crewe would beat town because they were the better team. It annoyed some on here but he was proven right as they beat us!
I remember that and quite easily if I recall, Looking at the article some of what he talks about makes real sense and I suspect it would resonate with 1878. Also I thought his comment about having to do everything at Crewe was interesting as whoever gets the job will walk into what is still a reasonable infrastructure considering our means.
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
Would be on board for artell much better than some of the names mentioned (Morison, Rooney) although my first choice is Cowley, it’s highly doubtful he would come. Artell is probably one of the best options we can get let’s hope he’s announced after the Sutton game at the latest
Although whoever we appoint it will be a smart descion by Jason and Andrew as they are smart business men UTM
He's one of the least exciting but one of the soundest choices.
This is how I feel.
I think it would almost feel underwhelming if he was to be to the choice but it would also be hard to argue against it as anything other than a very good appointment. Proven at this level (backed up with a promotion), played a style of football we probably all want to see and has a track record of giving youngsters a chance.
There's a part of me that wants Shaun and Ben to get a bit longer as I've been quite excited by how they've approached games since taking over. Yet I also recognise that in just over 5 weeks the transfer window opens and there's no hiding away from the fact that we will need a a bit of a shake-up in that month, equally so it's only fair any new managers get sufficient time to identify what that shake-up looks like.
Reading around Artel, I have to say I’ve reached the conclusion that he is highly likely to be our next manager. Not scientific I know. Just a conclusion based on research and what we know about our owners.
Reading around Artel, I have to say I’ve reached the conclusion that he is highly likely to be our next manager. Not scientific I know. Just a conclusion based on research and what we know about our owners.
Pretty much how I see it.
The various articles and interviews available make him sound like a good fit for our owners and vice versa.
Re: the £100,000 investment. His failure to sell his house near Bath to fund the share purchase just resulted in Jason & Andrew having to spend £50,000 less each buying up shares when they bought the club.
The real truth is he’s a decent guy who tried his best under incredibly difficult circumstances and ultimately failed. He didn’t do it deliberately. And if you’re still bitter about it nearly 3 years later when we’re sat lower in the table than we were when he resigned then it’s generally a bit sad.
He was in charge of the football side of the club, Fenty takes 100% responsibility for the Alex May episode.
And remember he resigned. He didn’t wait around for the sack and a pay off. He walked away with nothing.
When you talk to him he's a really nice guy, we bumped into him earlier in the year at Horseshoe Point while out walking the dogs and we chatted all the way to Donna Nook and back. He regrets how things panned out and i do understand where he was coming from re working for Fenty and being loyal there and the frustration of working during covid.
The only bit i don't get is why he wouldn't at least have some sort of dialog with Jason & Andrew at the time, think the perfect storm brewed up and he took the easy way out
When you talk to him he's a really nice guy, we bumped into him earlier in the year at Horseshoe Point while out walking the dogs and we chatted all the way to Donna Nook and back. He regrets how things panned out and i do understand where he was coming from re working for Fenty and being loyal there and the frustration of working during covid.
The only bit i don't get is why he wouldn't at least have some sort of dialog with Jason & Andrew at the time, think the perfect storm brewed up and he took the easy way out
He only regrets it because he was caught. He was a charlatan and they would of seen right through his act hence why he didn't want any form of contact.
As time progresses and absolutely zero information coming out of BP, I’m starting to think we haven’t got anywhere with interviews and we’re heading further and further down that target list - I know I’ll get shot down for this but JS did say he would keep us informed with progress - zilch to date.
I’m convinced they’re going for the cheap option of SP & BD (massively hope I’m wrong) but this would be an enormous gamble (I know any manager would be but this stands out as a ludicrous choice). They are great blokes, should be kept at the Club without question but 100% NOT the right choice at this moment in time. Flirting with relegation to Non-League again is not something we can afford to do. I can’t honestly see them persuading many to come here in January either.
We need need blood, a shake up and can’t afford to take a gamble. If JS gives them the job, it makes a mockery of this whole due diligence/recruitment process that he’s suggested.
Please GTFC, don’t be short-sighted and take the cheap option - we need experience right now!
As time progresses and absolutely zero information coming out of BP, I’m starting to think we haven’t got anywhere with interviews and we’re heading further and further down that target list - I know I’ll get shot down for this but JS did say he would keep us informed with progress - zilch to date.
I’m convinced they’re going for the cheap option of SP & BD (massively hope I’m wrong) but this would be an enormous gamble (I know any manager would be but this stands out as a ludicrous choice). They are great blokes, should be kept at the Club without question but 100% NOT the right choice at this moment in time. Flirting with relegation to Non-League again is not something we can afford to do. I can’t honestly see them persuading many to come here in January either.
We need need blood, a shake up and can’t afford to take a gamble. If JS gives them the job, it makes a mockery of this whole due diligence/recruitment process that he’s suggested.
Please GTFC, don’t be short-sighted and take the cheap option - we need experience right now!
I think you are confusing JS and AP for JF... They've not took a cheap option for anything since they've been here, quite the opposite. The time being taken is because they are doing due dillegence and giving thorough interviews. This is there first appointment so will be even more cautious but they know the consequences if it goes wrong. Like you said it's something we can not afford to do. As for an update, what do you want him to say in it that's not already been said? Especially when we have a fans forum on Friday ' Yeah we've had some interviews ' I'm sure all of us have been through an interview process and never is it straight forward in a normal world nevermind to become a football manager.
The recent data is very compelling towards the appointment of Ben and Shaun - for at least the next 6 months in terms of results. Also, the dressing room does seem to have responded to them. At this point , the appointment of an outside person I see as a bit of a risk.
UTM
Blundell Park - The Home of Grimsby Town Football Club (still)
The recent data is very compelling towards the appointment of Ben and Shaun - for at least the next 6 months in terms of results. Also, the dressing room does seem to have responded to them. At this point , the appointment of an outside person I see as a bit of a risk.
UTM
More risky than appointing rookie managers who have no experience of several aspects of management, most notably recruitment?
Think Lincoln took much longer to appoint their Manager and the suggestion that they are going for the cheap option or going down to the bottom of their preferred candidates is, IMO, very wide of the mark. I accept we all want this done and dusted but it takes as long as it takes with the key objective of appointing the Manager best suited to GTFC.
The recent data is very compelling towards the appointment of Ben and Shaun - for at least the next 6 months in terms of results. Also, the dressing room does seem to have responded to them. At this point , the appointment of an outside person I see as a bit of a risk.
UTM
First half against FG was back to the PH days . No pressing and no hard work
First half against FG was back to the PH days . No pressing and no hard work
Second half we changed things around to get a reaction and it worked . Good management skills imo . Up to now after four games ,nothing is broken so don't fix it . I know more work is needed but we are lmproving game after game ,we're heading in the right direction . UTM
Second half we changed things around to get a reaction and it worked . Good management skills imo . Up to now after four games ,nothing is broken so don't fix it . I know more work is needed but we are lmproving game after game ,we're heading in the right direction . UTM
Heading in the right direction?..really?..we are leakier than a cullender with 8mm holes!.. Yes, we may be scoring a few, but we've played 3 different teams, 2 of which nearly beat us, took us 180 minutes to best part timers and if FGR could actually hit a cows bottom they'd have been out of sight by half time. Morecambe was more a case of the players had their shackles removed, and I hate to tell yiu this, but about 5000 fans knew where the issued was under Hurst, so it didn't take a managerial master stroke to sort that out!.. Pearson & Davis have little to no experience in a transfer window, they will not have contacts (agents, scouts, other managers) to deal with. Right now we need an experienced manager to sort this squad out, be that selling/moving players on and also have the ability/knowledge to bolster us in January, for a push up the table.
Sorry, who are the 2 that nearly beat us? Because we battered Morecambe, we beat Slough 7-2, the first game was there first game and on a dodgy pitch so excusable and yeah the first half against FGR was poor but they also had a dodgy pen to score the first, until that they were abysmal and we then proceeded to have our way with them in the second half.
Sorry, who are the 2 that nearly beat us? Because we battered Morecambe, we beat Slough 7-2, the first game was there first game and on a dodgy pitch so excusable and yeah the first half against FGR was poor but they also had a dodgy pen to score the first, until that they were abysmal and we then proceeded to have our way with them in the second half.
FGR hit the bar, won a penalty, had a one on one they copulated up, we did nothing. Slough, first 20 minutes if that second half put it on us, 7-2 didn't reflect that game, their tiredness and our fitness won us that game, not super duper game management. Doesn't matter how you fluff it up, we concede too many goals, and we didn't batter Morecombe, Cartwright pulled off 2 worldies. Yes we attack more, no doubting that, but don't kid ourselves, we haven't turned a corner, we've just removed a stubborn manager who didn't let the players express themselves. Like I said, I really hope Shaun and Ben are kept as part of the coaching staff, but we are not a position to experiment with inexperience, we are still in a relegation scrap, and for that we need a manager with a proven track record in this league at the very least
You can never be sure in football - but I hope Shaun and Ben can select the appropriate team (after assessing them through training) - to bring us 3 points UTM
Blundell Park - The Home of Grimsby Town Football Club (still)
You can never be sure in football - but I hope Shaun and Ben can select the appropriate team (after assessing them through training) - to bring us 3 points against Sutton UTM
Blundell Park - The Home of Grimsby Town Football Club (still)
First half against FG was back to the PH days . No pressing and no hard work
Were you there? The first half wasn’t great but it definitely wasn’t back to PH. Full backs pushed high and up to the pen I’d say we were the better team. Second goal was really poor but it’s not on to say there was no hard work.
Not sure about Artell after 18 months out the game .They do say a year is a long time in football .Will he still know what's happening player wise so he can bring some decent players in .
Were you there? The first half wasn’t great but it definitely wasn’t back to PH. Full backs pushed high and up to the pen I’d say we were the better team. Second goal was really poor but it’s not on to say there was no hard work.
I spoke to a mate who did go and he said it was two crap teams.
Sorry, who are the 2 that nearly beat us? Because we battered Morecambe, we beat Slough 7-2, the first game was there first game and on a dodgy pitch so excusable and yeah the first half against FGR was poor but they also had a dodgy pen to score the first, until that they were abysmal and we then proceeded to have our way with them in the second half.
Battered Morecambe??!! 0-1 down at HT (OK - slightly the better team 1st Half) battered them for maybe 15 minutes second half and still conceded 2 goals.
FG 2-2 - Dreadful first half. Better recovery 2nd half.
I think some are looking through Rose tinted spectacles at the last 4 games! The weaknesses are obvious and now we are 2 members of the coaching staff down with absolutely No sign of a new Manager!!!
Heading in the right direction?..really?..we are leakier than a cullender with 8mm holes!.. Yes, we may be scoring a few, but we've played 3 different teams, 2 of which nearly beat us, took us 180 minutes to best part timers and if FGR could actually hit a cows bottom they'd have been out of sight by half time. Morecambe was more a case of the players had their shackles removed, and I hate to tell yiu this, but about 5000 fans knew where the issued was under Hurst, so it didn't take a managerial master stroke to sort that out!.. Pearson & Davis have little to no experience in a transfer window, they will not have contacts (agents, scouts, other managers) to deal with. Right now we need an experienced manager to sort this squad out, be that selling/moving players on and also have the ability/knowledge to bolster us in January, for a push up the table.
When we lose it’s all about the 3pts - it’s the only stat that matters and people refuse to look at performance. When we win people will spin the game any which way to suit their narrative or opinion. That’s football and the fickle nature of fans. We have improved under Shaun and Ben. Absolutely no doubt and more than we could have hoped for realistically in what is a short time period. Are we perfect? Nowhere near! Defensively we have much work to do. But we’re a league two club and we are not going to miraculously cure all our ills overnight. It’s the nature of the beast at this level. I’ve actually enjoyed games again recently which is a bonus as I hadn’t been doing previously, I’d endured them! If I was in charge of making the appointment of a new manager (perish the thought) I’d not be appointing SP and BD but they’ve done a very good job so far. Perhaps it’s all part of the master plan of Stockwood et al, to get new manager bounce twice!
“I know writers who use subtext and they’re all cowards.” –Garth Marenghi
When we lose it’s all about the 3pts - it’s the only stat that matters and people refuse to look at performance. When we win people will spin the game any which way to suit their narrative or opinion. That’s football and the fickle nature of fans. We have improved under Shaun and Ben. Absolutely no doubt and more than we could have hoped for realistically in what is a short time period. Are we perfect? Nowhere near! Defensively we have much work to do. But we’re a league two club and we are not going to miraculously cure all our ills overnight. It’s the nature of the beast at this level. I’ve actually enjoyed games again recently which is a bonus as I hadn’t been doing previously, I’d endured them! If I was in charge of making the appointment of a new manager (perish the thought) I’d not be appointing SP and BD but they’ve done a very good job so far. Perhaps it’s all part of the master plan of Stockwood et al, to get new manager bounce twice!
Not convinced a new manager is actually part of the plan. I think JSs plan is Ben and Shaun.
If Fenty was still in charge then it would be Ben & Shaun, the cheap option. Now don't get me wrong I like them and, as temporary, they have done well 1 league win and a comeback draw.
That said they have little, if no managerial experience between them. They are employed by the club as coaching staff in the main, never employed a player or sacked a player or not renewed a contract, to say the least; plus many of the attributes a qualified manager has.
As I said I have no axe to grind against them but feel the new manager will be someone outside the club.
You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
I wonder if there’s going to be an announcement in the next 36 hours, before the fans forum (is that tomorrow?). Otherwise the questions will only be about the new manager and will take away from other lines of questions.
Am now wondering if everything has been sorted out already and the extra time has been to allow the new manager time to sort property out in the area and get family settled etc. would also allow time for them to get to meet playing and non playing staff too. This would mean no manager role for SP or BD but will allow them to carry on in their club roles.
Maybe am second guessing this a bit and getting itchy feet/impatient
I wonder if there’s going to be an announcement in the next 36 hours, before the fans forum (is that tomorrow?). Otherwise the questions will only be about the new manager and will take away from other lines of questions.
Am now wondering if everything has been sorted out already and the extra time has been to allow the new manager time to sort property out in the area and get family settled etc. would also allow time for them to get to meet playing and non playing staff too. This would mean no manager role for SP or BD but will allow them to carry on in their club roles.
Maybe am second guessing this a bit and getting itchy feet/impatient
I have a similar thought process, but as you say it could be down to being impatient and just wanting everything sorted.
It would make sense to announce before/during the fans forum, let Ben and Shaun have the final game at Sutton and new manager starts for game at franchise.
That being said I'm not a football chairman and could be missing something. Either way, as has been said before, at least we know the job hasn't been offered at a friends wedding like the previous regime.
The ideal scenario at the Fans Forum would be for JS to open the proceedings and then introduce the new manager who then walks in to a drum roll and a fanfare of trumpets. If Carlsberg did new football manager announcements!
The Future is Black & White. "The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
Battered Morecambe??!! 0-1 down at HT (OK - slightly the better team 1st Half) battered them for maybe 15 minutes second half and still conceded 2 goals.
FG 2-2 - Dreadful first half. Better recovery 2nd half.
I think some are looking through Rose tinted spectacles at the last 4 games! The weaknesses are obvious and now we are 2 members of the coaching staff down with absolutely No sign of a new Manager!!!
Slighty better team in the first half? We could and probably should of been 3 up at half time. We was by far the better team from minute 2 onwards, We hit the post, Maher probably should of scored, Khan made the keeper make a really good save. We then came out firing in the second half and caused them all sorts of problems. The second and third goal especially being really really well worked goals. Pyke should of had another but for a wonder save from there keeper, they scored when we made too many changes but we had players tiring who hadn't played many minutes. So yes, i'd probably say we battered them. You say the scoreline massively flattered us against Slough, well that's football. You can only beat what's put in front of you and like we saw last season... just because you're 2/3 steps above a team doesn't automatically mean you should be winning the game.
I wonder if there’s going to be an announcement in the next 36 hours, before the fans forum (is that tomorrow?). Otherwise the questions will only be about the new manager and will take away from other lines of questions.
Am now wondering if everything has been sorted out already and the extra time has been to allow the new manager time to sort property out in the area and get family settled etc. would also allow time for them to get to meet playing and non playing staff too. This would mean no manager role for SP or BD but will allow them to carry on in their club roles.
Maybe am second guessing this a bit and getting itchy feet/impatient
I can't see that they would be sorting property out and meeting staff without word getting out as to who it is. They are doing a very good job of keeping this process under wraps IMO, I think the first we'll know about it will be a story on the OS. When will that be? Who knows...
The ideal scenario at the Fans Forum would be for JS to open the proceedings and then introduce the new manager who then walks in to a drum roll and a fanfare of trumpets. If Carlsberg did new football manager announcements!
Followed by the announcement that the new very secretive new training facility is built and ready to use for new season and that funding has been acquired through naming rights and sponsorship for the new stadium NOW THAT WOULD BE A CARLSBERG MOMENT LOL
The ideal scenario at the Fans Forum would be for JS to open the proceedings and then introduce the new manager who then walks in to a drum roll and a fanfare of trumpets. If Carlsberg did new football manager announcements!
Even better, put him in the audience and then at the end do a Scooby Doo style reveal. “You all thought this was GrimPol sat here but as I pull the mask off it’s actually……(Insert Name)”
Batch, Crombie, Moore K, Wiggington, Cumming, Waters, Bonnyman, Ford, Emson, Drinkell, Whymark. Love you all, You are the reason I'm on here. You've had help from Todd, Handyside, Futcher P, Groves, Mendonca, Macca etc etc etc. Up The Mariners!!!!!!!!!
David Artell is now odds on favourite, second favourite is Pearson at 6-1.
Probably means nothing as we’ve had 3 or 4 other Odds on favourites who are now out of the running.
Not sure we've had anyone go quite that short on price, other than maybe Healy, which was understandable considering the coverage it got. What is interesting is how far the price moved so quickly, suggests a fair bit of backing to me.
I think information given to staff is now on a 'need to know basis' and Joe, who runs Twitter and looks like we are now replacing, isn't from around here so doesn't have local friends that may get snippets of information.
Anyone can sit outside BP, Cheapside or Steels, watching comings and goings, but Jason and Andrew don't even live in Grimsby so it wouldn't surprise me if most of the process was conducted away from the town.
I do feel like tomorrow's Fans Forum will be quite unproductive though, as many of the questions will be about this subject and there is only so much the board can say.
I think information given to staff is now on a 'need to know basis' and Joe, who runs Twitter and looks like we are now replacing, isn't from around here so doesn't have local friends that may get snippets of information.
Anyone can sit outside BP, Cheapside or Steels, watching comings and goings, but Jason and Andrew don't even live in Grimsby so it wouldn't surprise me if most of the process was conducted away from the town.
I do feel like tomorrow's Fans Forum will be quite unproductive though, as many of the questions will be about this subject and there is only so much the board can say.
You may well be right, but if the club cannot reveal the new manager I'd expect a statement at the start of the forum along the lines of "We cannot take questions on the next manager because the appointment process is ongoing and remains confidential" (or some such).
David Artell is now odds on favourite, second favourite is Pearson at 6-1.
Probably means nothing as we’ve had 3 or 4 other Odds on favourites who are now out of the running.
But are they? How many teams who have recently appointed new Managers have employed the person who was favourite with the bookies? None of them!
Names get banded round left right and centre, they appear in the bookies list, they disappear from the bookies list, but in reality, behind the scenes, do they ever go away? We don't know. Those early candidates named in the lists could well be the names that JS has interviewed.
If JS was starting to look for a new Manager/Management team straight after PH departure, and having admitted in an interview that there were some very good names who had applied, I think he will have started his initial interviews pretty early on, even if it was just to discount some people. Unless, in the ensuing weeks, there has been any other superior candidates who have become available, and who have tossed their hats into the ring, then I think JS will eventually opt for one of the original applicants. Personally, I don't think SP/BD should be given the job, BUT SP could very well step up to the Assistant Manager/Scout job, while Ben returns to coaching.
I think the problem is that all the 'old school' Managers just want to manage, like in days of old, rather than relying on all this behind the scenes data balderdash and player stats etc etc. How on earth did they manage it (no pun intended) back before the use of computers? It was all down to what the Manager wanted and did. There are too many peoples input behind the scenes now.
I would think that because JS lives away from Grimsby, that any interviews have been conducted wherever he is either working or living, which has led to the 'no clues whatsoever' scenario locally.
I know that JS lives over in Manchester and agree interviews may not have even taken place in Grimsby. But, given how important the community and the town is to this football club, and the owners, I'd be amazed if they appointed someone without even showing them the ground, the facilities, or the local area.
Managers need to sell themselves, but may also need to sell ourselves to managers (because didn't JS say they were working on people who may not have applied?).
"Don't shine that light in my face, mate - I've just lost a pint of blood."
But are they? How many teams who have recently appointed new Managers have employed the person who was favourite with the bookies? None of them!
Names get banded round left right and centre, they appear in the bookies list, they disappear from the bookies list, but in reality, behind the scenes, do they ever go away? We don't know. Those early candidates named in the lists could well be the names that JS has interviewed.
If JS was starting to look for a new Manager/Management team straight after PH departure, and having admitted in an interview that there were some very good names who had applied, I think he will have started his initial interviews pretty early on, even if it was just to discount some people. Unless, in the ensuing weeks, there has been any other superior candidates who have become available, and who have tossed their hats into the ring, then I think JS will eventually opt for one of the original applicants. Personally, I don't think SP/BD should be given the job, BUT SP could very well step up to the Assistant Manager/Scout job, while Ben returns to coaching.
I think the problem is that all the 'old school' Managers just want to manage, like in days of old, rather than relying on all this behind the scenes data balderdash and player stats etc etc. How on earth did they manage it (no pun intended) back before the use of computers? It was all down to what the Manager wanted and did. There are too many peoples input behind the scenes now.
I would think that because JS lives away from Grimsby, that any interviews have been conducted wherever he is either working or living, which has led to the 'no clues whatsoever' scenario locally.
Sadly this Luddite approach is still widespread, especially with older posters and I'm 75. You need a well structured back-room staff and support for a modern football manager to progress. Sure, the "old school managers" never had this but football, like everything else in the world , has progressed and every aid available should be utilised. The modern football club manager shouldn't been weighed down with all the trivial admin and day to day running of the club. He should be free to concentrate on the team - how to improve it, who would make it perform better and how to correct things when they go wrong.
The Future is Black & White. "The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
People saying Artell knows how to work on a budget because he took Crewe up should be paraphrasing that by adding he also had an extremely talented bunch of youngsters (probably the best the fourth tier has ever seen) at his disposal. Which is encouraging in some ways, especially if we're looking at bringing the likes of Cam Gardner through in the next few years, but it should also be factored in when we're looking at his achievements to date. He's not gonna have the likes of Tom Lowery, Harry Pickering, Ryan Wintle, Charlie Kirk and Owen Dale on £300 p/w supplementing the wage budget at Grimsby.
The one thing that most on here, including myself, till now is what about the players? What sort of turmoil must some of them be going through, wondering if the new manager will accept them, or not?
Will he want his own backroom staff or take on the existing members? Whilst all appear to be working to their professional best at the moment, wanting to impress the new man in waiting, I'm sure many will have some doubts at the back of their minds.
I wish them all well.
You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
The one thing that most on here, including myself, till now is what about the players? What sort of turmoil must some of them be going through, wondering if the new manager will accept them, or not?
Will he want his own backroom staff or take on the existing members? Whilst all appear to be working to their professional best at the moment, wanting to impress the new man in waiting, I'm sure many will have some doubts at the back of their minds.
I wish them all well.
Or maybe the new Manager/s ARE the back room staff? 🫤
People saying Artell knows how to work on a budget because he took Crewe up should be paraphrasing that by adding he also had an extremely talented bunch of youngsters (probably the best the fourth tier has ever seen) at his disposal. Which is encouraging in some ways, especially if we're looking at bringing the likes of Cam Gardner through in the next few years, but it should also be factored in when we're looking at his achievements to date. He's not gonna have the likes of Tom Lowey, Harry Pickering, Ryan Wintle, Charlie Kirk and Owen Dale on £300 p/w supplementing the wage budget at Grimsby.
This is the only thing that worries me about Artell, he wasn’t able to be exactly very active in the transfer market and was blessed with one of the best youth set ups in the whole EFL.
I think it’ll be a solid enough appointment but not one without its question marks.
People saying Artell knows how to work on a budget because he took Crewe up should be paraphrasing that by adding he also had an extremely talented bunch of youngsters (probably the best the fourth tier has ever seen) at his disposal. Which is encouraging in some ways, especially if we're looking at bringing the likes of Cam Gardner through in the next few years, but it should also be factored in when we're looking at his achievements to date. He's not gonna have the likes of Tom Lowey, Harry Pickering, Ryan Wintle, Charlie Kirk and Owen Dale on £300 p/w supplementing the wage budget at Grimsby.
Whilst that is undoubtedly true, having them and making them into players and a team capable of promotion so early in their career are two separate things mate.
People saying Artell knows how to work on a budget because he took Crewe up should be paraphrasing that by adding he also had an extremely talented bunch of youngsters (probably the best the fourth tier has ever seen) at his disposal. Which is encouraging in some ways, especially if we're looking at bringing the likes of Cam Gardner through in the next few years, but it should also be factored in when we're looking at his achievements to date. He's not gonna have the likes of Tom Lowey, Harry Pickering, Ryan Wintle, Charlie Kirk and Owen Dale on £300 p/w supplementing the wage budget at Grimsby.
That's true, but he also was the head of the academy responsible for bringing those sorts of players through before being given the managers job.
Whilst that is undoubtedly true, having them and making them into players and a team capable of promotion so early in their career are two separate things mate.
The making them into promotion winning/higher division players part is irrelevant at Town though because he won't have players with this kind of raw talent in the first place unless he goes out and signs them, which he won't because we're talking about five or six 18 to 23 years olds that go onto play in the second and third tier. I'm definitely not denying he did well with these young players at Crewe, he most certainly did, but what he had at Crewe at that time was somewhat of a golden ticket.
That's true, but he also was the head of the academy responsible for bringing those sorts of players through before being given the managers job.
Yeah, so he was in a position that he'd never be in at Town in that sense, meaning we'd be looking for other strings to Artell's bow to come into play should he become our new manager.
I don't think Artell's managerial career is any better than Paul Hurst's. Surely when you sack a manager, you do it to get someone better in?
It's all about context though. If he is the preferred candidate because he ticks enough boxes then fair enough.
His past record is rather immaterial, a lot of it would have to do with what players he inherited, what his transfer kitty was, what help he got with coaching, how he was expected to perform given the limitations of the club, what division they were operating in and a thousand and one other things. It's no good looking at his win ratio either, as a 30% win rate might be a fantastic achievement given the resources.
It's all about context though. If he is the preferred candidate because he ticks enough boxes then fair enough.
His past record is rather immaterial, a lot of it would have to do with what players he inherited, what his transfer kitty was, what help he got with coaching, how he was expected to perform given the limitations of the club, what division they were operating in and a thousand and one other things. It's no good looking at his win ratio either, as a 30% win rate might be a fantastic achievement given the resources.
This is exactly it. Nearly every successful manager has been sacked at some point in their career but have then gone on to manage other teams successfully. Like you said, its down to the quality of the players they inherit and their ability to adapt.
That’s a nice idea in principle but I’m just about to put £300 apiece on John Barnes and Dave Hockaday, just to watch the reaction on Twitter as they become our new odds on favourites.
It's all about context though. If he is the preferred candidate because he ticks enough boxes then fair enough.
His past record is rather immaterial, a lot of it would have to do with what players he inherited, what his transfer kitty was, what help he got with coaching, how he was expected to perform given the limitations of the club, what division they were operating in and a thousand and one other things. It's no good looking at his win ratio either, as a 30% win rate might be a fantastic achievement given the resources.
Sticking to the 'anything that has already happened is completely immaterial and we learn nothing from history' mantra? At least you're consistent.
It's all about context though. If he is the preferred candidate because he ticks enough boxes then fair enough.
His past record is rather immaterial, a lot of it would have to do with what players he inherited, what his transfer kitty was, what help he got with coaching, how he was expected to perform given the limitations of the club, what division they were operating in and a thousand and one other things. It's no good looking at his win ratio either, as a 30% win rate might be a fantastic achievement given the resources.
‘His past record is rather immaterial’ taken in isolation is rather silly but from my perspective the sentiment in the rest of your post is absolutely member on!
A sacking or two should not necessarily discount a candidate because success is relative and context is key but past record forms part of that context and should be considered as one component part of a bigger picture.
But isn’t all that why you have due process and diligence? so that all factors can be evaluated, compared and then contrasted across a shortlist of contenders.
“I know writers who use subtext and they’re all cowards.” –Garth Marenghi
Sticking to the 'anything that has already happened is completely immaterial and we learn nothing from history' mantra? At least you're consistent.
Thanks for noticing.
Somebody said earlier they wouldn't give him the job because his win ratio isn't great. I was merely pointing out that many factors contribute to that and his win rate might actually be a very good effort if there were factors out of his control.
People saying Artell knows how to work on a budget because he took Crewe up should be paraphrasing that by adding he also had an extremely talented bunch of youngsters (probably the best the fourth tier has ever seen) at his disposal. Which is encouraging in some ways, especially if we're looking at bringing the likes of Cam Gardner through in the next few years, but it should also be factored in when we're looking at his achievements to date. He's not gonna have the likes of Tom Lowery, Harry Pickering, Ryan Wintle, Charlie Kirk and Owen Dale on £300 p/w supplementing the wage budget at Grimsby.
my point exactly. the right man in the right place at the right time; would explain why he cant get a job after 18 months of trying
It's all about context though. If he is the preferred candidate because he ticks enough boxes then fair enough.
His past record is rather immaterial, a lot of it would have to do with what players he inherited, what his transfer kitty was, what help he got with coaching, how he was expected to perform given the limitations of the club, what division they were operating in and a thousand and one other things. It's no good looking at his win ratio either, as a 30% win rate might be a fantastic achievement given the resources.
This is also the perfect argument for Shaun and Ben
This is also the perfect argument for Shaun and Ben
The perfect argument against Shaun and Ben is that they would be taking over a team in trouble and then if they fail to keep us up, their reputation and future careers are in tatters.
I think we can all see ancient and a minority of others on here are staunchly advocating for Shaun and Ben and to be honest whats the problem with that? You know, them having an opinion that my differ from the majority on here? To be honest I haven't an idea, nor an opinion on who should be the next manager, as my enthusiasm towards the appointment of Slade Mk2, Bignot, Jolley and Holloway was ultimately replaced with an equal measure of disappointment and disillusionment. But I just don't understand the level of animosity towards anyone who might suggest Shaun and Ben may be worth a punt.
If either Pearson or Davies were to read the Fishy over recent weeks, I think they would be both disappointed with the opinions and reasoning presented. The fact, that after what can be only described as a good start, after what had gone before, they are totally written off as worthy contenders is baffling. Contributors write off their achievements, saying they have had only non league or low league opposition. But they can only play the games that are presented to them! Even a win tomorrow will be met by some with hardly a murmur of appreciation, as Sutton are bottom. But, if the club had immediately appointed a "name" manager, then the Fishy would now be singing their praises and celebrating the results thus far, affirming no more could be expected under the circumstances. No problem letting in goals you'd say, as long as we score more! Ironically you will probably use Shaun's old club Wrexham as an example when that's acceptable.
I think its sad really, that two individuals with a wealth of experience between them, who have been great servants to the club over a number of years and who have been able to perform a minor miracle with a team, who only a few short weeks ago were turning out some of the worst and most depressing football in recent memory, are rejected out of hand, with reasoning that quite frankly just don't stack up.
Just watched the pre match interview on YouTube. Have to say Shaun really comes across well. A breath of fresh air from the Hurst interviews. You can't help but smile when listening to him as his passion is infectious. Similarly, Ben Davies demonstrates a real professionalism and surety. I wouldn't be surprised if the players enjoy and respect these two. If we get a win Saturday, coupled with a good performance, then I hope a few more will get behind the call for Shaun and Davies for the top jobs, but unfortunately I doubt it.
I think we can all see ancient and a minority of others on here are staunchly advocating for Shaun and Ben and to be honest whats the problem with that? You know, them having an opinion that my differ from the majority on here? To be honest I haven't an idea, nor an opinion on who should be the next manager, as my enthusiasm towards the appointment of Slade Mk2, Bignot, Jolley and Holloway was ultimately replaced with an equal measure of disappointment and disillusionment. But I just don't understand the level of animosity towards anyone who might suggest Shaun and Ben may be worth a punt.
If either Pearson or Davies were to read the Fishy over recent weeks, I think they would be both disappointed with the opinions and reasoning presented. The fact, that after what can be only described as a good start, after what had gone before, they are totally written off as worthy contenders is baffling. Contributors write off their achievements, saying they have had only non league or low league opposition. But they can only play the games that are presented to them! Even a win tomorrow will be met by some with hardly a murmur of appreciation, as Sutton are bottom. But, if the club had immediately appointed a "name" manager, then the Fishy would now be singing their praises and celebrating the results thus far, affirming no more could be expected under the circumstances. No problem letting in goals you'd say, as long as we score more! Ironically you will probably use Shaun's old club Wrexham as an example when that's acceptable.
I think its sad really, that two individuals with a wealth of experience between them, who have been great servants to the club over a number of years and who have been able to perform a minor miracle with a team, who only a few short weeks ago were turning out some of the worst and most depressing football in recent memory, are rejected out of hand, with reasoning that quite frankly just don't stack up.
Just watched the pre match interview on YouTube. Have to say Shaun really comes across well. A breath of fresh air from the Hurst interviews. You can't help but smile when listening to him as his passion is infectious. Similarly, Ben Davies demonstrates a real professionalism and surety. I wouldn't be surprised if the players enjoy and respect these two. If we get a win tomorrow coupled with a good performance, then I hope a few more will get behind the call for Shaun and Davies for the top jobs, but unfortunately I doubt it.
If we win tomorrow, then they’re flipping miracle workers.
That's why I posted Herve, multiple sources saying its done, announcement tomorrow but nobody is saying whether it'll be a separate news conference or tied in with the fans forum.
Just asked my three Crewe supporter friends about him as to be honest when I saw the name I completely drew a blank and had no idea who he was and I'm a 15 minute drive from their stadium.
All 3 replied with a similar worded response saying along the lines of "Ooo I hope he doesn't lose his temper, thats how he lost the dressing room here".
I don't mind Roy Keane making £60,000 a week. I was making the same when I was playing. The only difference was I was printing my own - Mickey Thomas
The area you are trying to protect at corners is the goal - Chris Kamara
I once said Gazza's IQ was less than his shirt number and he asked me: What's an IQ? - George Best
Very passionate and animated, likes a booking. Not sure you could call it a temper. Sure if you had all your best players sold from underneath you and forced to work on a pittance then you’d be pretty drunk off aswell.
I think it’s a terrible appointment. Would much rather keep Shaun and Ben
So, can I ask why you'd want to keep 2 inexperienced managers(actually coaches btw) rather than 1 with 6 years experience, a promotion from league 2, 4 successful years and 1 bad with mitigating circumstances as his club basically sold all the best players and replaced them with a budget made up of change found down the back of the chairman's sofa?...
I hope who ever it is that comes in, wants and has been told that Ben & Shaun will be reverting to their past roles and not kicked down the road at the first chance. And are rewarded for their efforts . Both are well respectid within the club and in the stands , Thanks for stepping up and steadying the ship lads
Tbh I’m not overly impressed. He’s a bit of a drama queen and likes a rant . Either kill or cure for me . I’m surprised the owners have taken a gamble tbh . I’ll support in the ground and get behind him though utm
I think he's the best man we can get in all honesty. Knows the league , promotion from the same league on his cv .experienced in English league football.
In all honesty I'm happy , put it this way much rather have artell than an unknown Irish league manager who has no managerial experience in English league football, the other side of the coin would been say a mark Hughes or a Graham Alexander as let's be honest they were the names we would be looking at.
I'm happy with artell . He's also very very passionate about the teams he manages so just what we need right now.
Excellent appointment! I watched an interview yesterday where he said at Crewe he had no Scout, and no head of recruitment, and basically did it all himself.
Compared to that, we are very well equipped, and i think this is a top appointment
I don’t know too much about him; I remember him in the dugout for Crewe but can’t say I remember him as a player. Most importantly to me though is that in his relatively short career he has already proven he can get a similar club up to the next level which is ultimately our goal right now. On the face of it, it seems like a decent appointment.
A bit surprised that the chairman, renowned for new style leadership traits has gone for a man with bullying allegations in his background Having said that people change, mature etc Good luck to him
A bit surprised that the chairman, renowned for new style leadership traits has gone for a man with bullying allegations in his background Having said that people change, mature etc Good luck to him
Surely if any of us had to do everything in your job you'd get a bit arsey!
Tbh I’m not overly impressed. He’s a bit of a drama queen and likes a rant . Either kill or cure for me . I’m surprised the owners have taken a gamble tbh . I’ll support in the ground and get behind him though utm
Bearing in mind we sit 4th bottom of league 2, and we won't get top, top managers beating a path to our door, who would you have preferred?
Possibly, but you'd think a bloke who's been doing this for so long would have a good idea about what he can and can't say publicly.
As everything is so watertight at the club, people go looking elsewhere for the information, so JT or someone else from RH may have got the heads up from a source close to Artell.
I just don't think he would tweet what he did as a random guess.
For the BBC to report something, they need 2 sources. JT isn't a BBC employee, so he doesn't need 2 sources.
Equally so I don't think the club would be petty enough to tell him to backtrack, it's not like the announcement is tied in with anything commercially sensitive such as a sponsorship deal (or at least I presume not!). JT is just playing games. He knows who it is and when it'll be announced, as it seems most of us do now too.
Apologies if this has already been shared. But the below video is quite interesting, skip the first fifteen minutes but after that he starts to get into what his approach is. Rules out from the off getting it forward quickly and getting loads of balls into the box. He then goes onto talk about how he believes clubs and managers should be shared in their footballing philosophy and approach, which absolutely ties in with what 1878 have heavily hinted at in recent weeks.
Only got so far through but he comes across very well and articulate, with a definite plan. Bit unusual that he did an interview with a fans podcast for a job he appears to have applied for mind.
Equally so I don't think the club would be petty enough to tell him to backtrack, it's not like the announcement is tied in with anything commercially sensitive such as a sponsorship deal (or at least I presume not!). JT is just playing games. He knows who it is and when it'll be announced, as it seems most of us do now too.
Apologies if this has already been shared. But the below video is quite interesting, skip the first fifteen minutes but after that he starts to get into what his approach is. Rules out from the off getting it forward quickly and getting loads of balls into the box. He then goes onto talk about how he believes clubs and managers should be shared in their footballing philosophy and approach, which absolutely ties in with what 1878 have heavily hinted at in recent weeks.
Only got so far through but he comes across very well and articulate, with a definite plan. Bit unusual that he did an interview with a fans podcast for a job he appears to have applied for mind.
The what's your favourite biscuit question to players is a personal favourite! Very interesting listen this..
Given Tondeur has since admitted his tweet was a joke and doesn't actually know anything, how certain are we that Artell is the man incoming?
Alex Green of DN35 podcast, confirmed from 2 separate sources. Now if you know Alex, he would not say anything without concrete proof, he's too connected to the club to say anything that would potentially alienate the owners. On top of that all betting on Artell has been suspended so the bookies have been akerted to something, so I'd say its 99.9% nailed on to be Artell. On from that, he'd be an excellent appointment for the progression of Khouri, Hunt, Conteh, Gardner, Braithwaite as his forte appears to be working and getting the best out of the young guns..
My abiding memory of playing Crewe teams managed by Artell was that they moved the ball really, really well. That day they smashed us 5-0 at their place we couldn’t get near them all afternoon.
Batch, Crombie, Moore K, Wiggington, Cumming, Waters, Bonnyman, Ford, Emson, Drinkell, Whymark. Love you all, You are the reason I'm on here. You've had help from Todd, Handyside, Futcher P, Groves, Mendonca, Macca etc etc etc. Up The Mariners!!!!!!!!!
My abiding memory of playing Crewe teams managed by Artell was that they moved the ball really, really well. That day they smashed us 5-0 at their place we couldn’t get near them all afternoon.
Just looked that up, no working video I could find but I do remember them absolutely battering us that day. To the point that 5 didn't seem a fair reflection on just how good they were/bad we were. Didn't realise it was their first win in 12 that day.
But also remember the 2-0 at the back end of Jolley's time when they ran rings round us. Interestingly Calum Ainley on the bench that day for them, looks like he was one of Artell's main men as that side developed so be interesting to see how/if he uses him in our side. Almost perfect timing with him coming back to fitness.
You can almost imagine Stockwood saying very similar things himself.
Quoted Text
“I’m not trying to be self-righteous or big headed, but I’ve just got a thirst for learning. If you learn all the time, you will always stay ahead of your curve. I think you have to do that to stay ahead of others. I just think knowledge is the bomb – maybe that sounds cliché – but the more knowledge you have, the better decisions you will make over a period of time.
Anthony Limbrick has left his role in Gibraltar, possible number 2?
Where are you hearing or seeing this? If true I would definitely welcome his appointment as number two. Highly respected and oozes positivity. He's already said in a recent interview he would jump at the chance of working at GTFC again.
From what is being written here and elsewhere his behavioural issues seem to follow him. Even allegations of bullying being touted. If Ive learnt anything these 50 plus years a bully never loses his stripes.
Are there actually allegations of bullying? Not being argumentative but I've seen one person on here say it but nothing else.
Just looked that up, no working video I could find but I do remember them absolutely battering us that day. To the point that 5 didn't seem a fair reflection on just how good they were/bad we were. Didn't realise it was their first win in 12 that day.
But also remember the 2-0 at the back end of Jolley's time when they ran rings round us. Interestingly Calum Ainley on the bench that day for them, looks like he was one of Artell's main men as that side developed so be interesting to see how/if he uses him in our side. Almost perfect timing with him coming back to fitness.
Can’t get the video to work but the highlights are here -
We were 4 down after half an hour and it was a long, long day. The worst bit was Gunning trying to kill one of their young lads who’d been running rings round us once the tramp had finally caught up with him, only time I’ve ever wanted a town player sent off.
Think Stockwood has made reference to having a particular style of play throughout the club, and that’s certainly the case with Crewe. Always seem to be very technically proficient players, and that must run all the way down the academy where Artell came from.
Not sure Limbrick would want to be an assistant again after being a manager, but who knows? We've changed as a club a lot since he was last here.
That day we lost 5-0 at Crewe... not sure how much of it was them being ace, or us being total cråp. Bignot played wing backs that day, with Gavin Gunning the central defender. Pearson was played as left centre back and probably played his worst game in the black and white stripes that day.
It was an awful performance from the very start. Crewe were good, mind, and had a couple of very good young players in that squad.
I think Artell's ability to develop youngsters and bring them into the first team will be a central topic. We all know that for us to survive and profit at this level, we need to bring through more Mattie Pollocks. I was a fan of Hurst but he just didn't know how to bring youngsters on. Jolley did more than him.
"Don't shine that light in my face, mate - I've just lost a pint of blood."
From what is being written here and elsewhere his behavioural issues seem to follow him. Even allegations of bullying being touted. If Ive learnt anything these 50 plus years a bully never loses his stripes.
I'm sure a club with history of offences involving bullying and other offences such as Crewe's would be in a place to be a judge of a person.
Where are you hearing or seeing this? If true I would definitely welcome his appointment as number two. Highly respected and oozes positivity. He's already said in a recent interview he would jump at the chance of working at GTFC again.
Thanks for this. The following is a rough English translation:
According to several sources, Anthony Limbrick will not be on the bench for @Man62FC for this Sunday’s match against @EuropaFC. The Australian coach would have asked to leave. Rumors of financial problems are becoming increasingly important.
Well, if there is indeed to be an announcement before the fans forum (I can’t see anything being unveiled for the first time during it), they’re leaving it rather late.
The perfect argument against Shaun and Ben is that they would be taking over a team in trouble and then if they fail to keep us up, their reputation and future careers are in tatters.
Only what has been written on here and apparently on Crewe's forum. Thus I've deleted original post
Thank you. Like I say, wasn't looking for an argument. Just genuinely curious as it wasn't something I've come across and I've spent far too much of today reading up on David Artell in preparation for the announcement at the Fans Forum later that the club are putting a Black Friday offer on Fish & Chips for tomorrow's game.
Grimsby Town News Page · Follow 15 h · HEAD COACH ANNOUNCED TOMORROW?! Hearing David Artell will be announced at the Grimsby Town football forum as our new head coach tomorrow evening. The former Crewe Alexandra manager is thought to be admired and appreciated by Jason Stockwood and Andrew Petit. The 43 year-old will most likely be in the stands for our home fixture against Sutton United on Saturday. Up The Mariners!⚫️⚪️
Grimsby Town News Page · Follow 15 h · HEAD COACH ANNOUNCED TOMORROW?! Hearing David Artell will be announced at the Grimsby Town football forum as our new head coach tomorrow evening. The former Crewe Alexandra manager is thought to be admired and appreciated by Jason Stockwood and Andrew Petit. The 43 year-old will most likely be in the stands for our home fixture against Sutton United on Saturday. Up The Mariners!⚫️⚪️
"They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old, Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn, At the going down of the sun, and in the morning, We WILL remember them"
Not sure Limbrick would want to be an assistant again after being a manager, but who knows? We've changed as a club a lot since he was last here.
That day we lost 5-0 at Crewe... not sure how much of it was them being ace, or us being total cråp. Bignot played wing backs that day, with Gavin Gunning the central defender. Pearson was played as left centre back and probably played his worst game in the black and white stripes that day.
It was an awful performance from the very start. Crewe were good, mind, and had a couple of very good young players in that squad.
I think Artell's ability to develop youngsters and bring them into the first team will be a central topic. We all know that for us to survive and profit at this level, we need to bring through more Mattie Pollocks. I was a fan of Hurst but he just didn't know how to bring youngsters on. Jolley did more than him.
I remember it well. It was my Birthday, and the only highlight that day was mad Gavs clothesline tackle he somehow got away with only a yellow.
I don't mind Roy Keane making £60,000 a week. I was making the same when I was playing. The only difference was I was printing my own - Mickey Thomas
The area you are trying to protect at corners is the goal - Chris Kamara
I once said Gazza's IQ was less than his shirt number and he asked me: What's an IQ? - George Best
He won't be announced today as he's not signed anything. We are however, in contact and he's been around this week.
Andrew and Jason must be prepared to field the obvious questions tonight if an announcement isn’t/cannot be made. I would imagine they may well say something along the lines of ‘a preferred canildidate has been identified, negotiations are ongoing and hopefully of a formal announcement in the coming days’ - that would go some way to quelling the appetite for information that fans will be seeking at the forum.
"They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old, Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn, At the going down of the sun, and in the morning, We WILL remember them"
Yeah. Good chance it will happen next week but at the moment, he's not signed.
Do you know if we have offered him the role and he has informally/formally accepted the role Jarmo? Is it just a case of contracts not been drawn up/signed at this stage or are negotiations remain ongoing do you know?
Any info appreciated mate 👍
"They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old, Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn, At the going down of the sun, and in the morning, We WILL remember them"
I think it's a lot more advanced than that, bookies don't suspend betting based on ' twitter talk '. We are also still advertising the fans forum as ' members of the management team '. If we didn't have anything to announce then surely we'd just say it'll be Shaun and Ben?
Do you know if we have offered him the role and he has informally/formally accepted the role Jarmo? Is it just a case of contracts not been drawn up/signed at this stage or are negotiations remain ongoing do you know?
Any info appreciated mate 👍
Just know he's been in and around the club towards end of this week mate, so all positive, just not signed anything as yet,
Grimsby Town News Page · Follow 15 h · HEAD COACH ANNOUNCED TOMORROW?! Hearing David Artell will be announced at the Grimsby Town football forum as our new head coach tomorrow evening. The former Crewe Alexandra manager is thought to be admired and appreciated by Jason Stockwood and Andrew Petit. The 43 year-old will most likely be in the stands for our home fixture against Sutton United on Saturday. Up The Mariners!⚫️⚪️
Artell has been linked with Bradford, Doncaster and Grimsby. Maybe he's doing all three
Batch, Crombie, Moore K, Wiggington, Cumming, Waters, Bonnyman, Ford, Emson, Drinkell, Whymark. Love you all, You are the reason I'm on here. You've had help from Todd, Handyside, Futcher P, Groves, Mendonca, Macca etc etc etc. Up The Mariners!!!!!!!!!
Whilst I get time to get the right person after 6 weeks of looking at data and what will be the best part of a month without a permanent manager I think 1878 need to crack on.
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
Whilst I get time to get the right person after 6 weeks of looking at data and what will be the best part of a month without a permanent manager I think 1878 need to crack on.
If a new manager isn’t in charge before the game after Sutton I’d be worried
Whilst I get time to get the right person after 6 weeks of looking at data and what will be the best part of a month without a permanent manager I think 1878 need to crack on.
Perhaps two are being continuously reviewed under our noses.?
I am!..and I know the future, right now, is not Pearson & Davis!!..2 great guys, love everything they have done/doing for the club but noway are they ready to take this club forward. And as I'm typing that its confirmed they won't be
Sounds like it’ll be Artell and if it is they’d be mad to announce until after the game as if it’s before he’d be associated with a result good or especially if it’s bad that has sweet fa to do with him
Sounds like it’ll be Artell and if it is they’d be mad to announce until after the game as if it’s before he’d be associated with a result good or especially if it’s bad that has sweet fa to do with him
They must be lying then cos they said it was down to 2 candidates.
Sounds like it’ll be Artell and if it is they’d be mad to announce until after the game as if it’s before he’d be associated with a result good or especially if it’s bad that has sweet fa to do with him
JS did say they are down to the last 2, so hopefully they'll announce it next week.
You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
Not much else they can say that’s positive without admitting the choice is made and thus bombarded with questions of who or confirmation it’s Artell. Not likely to say still working through a long list so down to two is probably yes we have our man.
Fair play to the bloke - 18 months out of work, n he's still dictating terms to our multi millionaire owners. He's got some cojones
He’s someone with a specific skillset that we’re looking for. It doesn’t matter who is looking for it - he should seek the best deal he can get. That goes for anyone - don’t accept your first offer cause you always get lowballed!
As we found out tonight, they can’t give it to Pearson. He doesn’t have the badges required to be a manager within the EFL. BD also doesn’t have his pro license.. if you have your A license you are allowed to take a job in the EDL but you must work towards your pro license in the next two years. BD replied to a question tonight saying he wouldn’t be taking it as it’s too expensive. So they’ve ruled themselves out regardless.
Whilst I get time to get the right person after 6 weeks of looking at data and what will be the best part of a month without a permanent manager I think 1878 need to crack on.
I do agree with you, however, the solid job Shaun and Ben are doing affords the board a little more time to get the right person without the need to rush. I’m confident SP and BD will continue to steady the ship and get some decent results until such a time the new guy comes in.
Hopefully coming in to a squad high in morale and confidence after some positive results/performances under SP/BD… it arguably make the transition/job a little easier for the new man as he’s not having to pick the squad up off the floor and instil belief and confidence! A rare luxury for a new manager I’d have thought!
"They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old, Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn, At the going down of the sun, and in the morning, We WILL remember them"
As we found out tonight, they can’t give it to Pearson. He doesn’t have the badges required to be a manager within the EFL. BD also doesn’t have his pro license.. if you have your A license you are allowed to take a job in the EDL but you must work towards your pro license in the next two years. BD replied to a question tonight saying he wouldn’t be taking it as it’s too expensive. So they’ve ruled themselves out regardless.
If the club are keen on developing people, that should apply to coaches, and I think it would hugely benefit our non-playing recruitment if the club paid for Ben to do it.
I do agree with you, however, the solid job Shaun and Ben are doing affords the board a little more time to get the right person without the need to rush. I’m confident SP and BD will continue to steady the ship and get some decent results until such a time the new guy comes in.
Hopefully coming in to a squad high in morale and confidence after some positive results/performances under SP/BD… it arguably make the transition/job a little easier for the new man as he’s not having to pick the squad up off the floor and instil belief and confidence! A rare luxury for a new manager I’d have thought!
To be fair after listening to the forum last night I was hasty with this comment. Understanding the why around the timeline’s & diligence attached to the recruitment process I now get what 1878 are doing and fully support them and whoever is successful with their application.
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
If the club are keen on developing people, that should apply to coaches, and I think it would hugely benefit our non-playing recruitment if the club paid for Ben to do it.
I suspect that our owners have far more important things to find the money for than to pay for Bens Pro Licence.
As I've said before, I very really post info I've been told unless I'm confident it's true
Grimsby Town aren't alone in taking considerable time making an appointment. But there is no merit in delay unless it's necessary. Artell could have been appointed within 48 hours of Hurst's dismissal. I hope he'll be given the job shortly but a month's been wasted.
Time wasting / time running out / not wanting to rush into a decision Could come at a price = Relegation Again !! Having listened to the Sutton game so 1878 get the manager in , before the Hill becomes a mountain to climb. UTM
An Exile and Proud !! UTM Mariners Trust Life Member. In the words of my Uncle Fred "You can take the man outta of Grimsby BUT you can't take the Grimsby! Out the man!"
Heard someone say today that the press conference was called for yesterday but there was a last minute change of mind/terms and it’s been delayed a few days. Sounds like crap to me but who knows.
Players make and break managers. Without a shed load to make changes who would accept the job.
One out one in 🤔🤔🤔 not very attractive.
I think that's rubbish. We are an attractive club to plenty of managers, and I don't believe for a minute that we won't have any new players come into the squad in the window.
In his three stints as Grimsby Town manager spanning over 10 years the club was never relegated and he also guided them to three promotions. Only 14 managers have reached 1,000 matches in charge of a Football League team by 1998 and Buckley is one of them. GOD
Thought from the way Ben Davies spoke after the match a decision has been taken and the announcement imminent. To not know if they will be in charge on Tuesday seems very revealing given the way Shaun and Ben have spoken about upcoming fixtures previously.
Heard someone say today that the press conference was called for yesterday but there was a last minute change of mind/terms and it’s been delayed a few days. Sounds like crap to me but who knows.
How true it is I have no idea, but one of the groundsman told my pal that Artell was due to be announced at the forum, only for him to cancel amid rumours that Morecambe have come sniffing. Supposedly all sorted now and to be announced Monday
How true it is I have no idea, but one of the groundsman told my pal that Artell was due to be announced at the forum, only for him to cancel amid rumours that Morecambe have come sniffing. Supposedly all sorted now and to be announced Monday
Think it’s generally believed they were hopeful of a Friday announcement. For what it’s worth I don’t think they’d do that at the Forum. Somethings obviously come up and made that not happen, seems to be more an ironing out than a major issue though.
I’m so pleased if it’s definitely not Morison as I think he’d have taken us down given his inexperience and lack of knowledge of the league. I’d be surprised if he was considered though.
Any manager looking for a job at this level should be proud to be in charge of this club, and if they aren't, then see ya.
Don't know if Artell was in the running or not, or whether he has been offered the job or not, but if he has and he thinks he can do better, then jog on I say.
Any manager looking for a job at this level should be proud to be in charge of this club, and if they aren't, then see ya.
Don't know if Artell was in the running or not, or whether he has been offered the job or not, but if he has and he thinks he can do better, then jog on I say.
If he watched today, I would expect him to be having second thoughts.
Seems a case of people putting 2&2 together and getting 5… time will tell but I expect the new manager announced before the game Tuesday but SP&BD will remain in charge for that game.
If he watched today, I would expect him to be having second thoughts.
If he watched Morecambe today then he’d be having 10 fold thoughts as they got battered by Wrexham. In free fall since Adams left and only 7 points ahead of us.
All those supposedly well ‘in the know’ about the managerial situation better get their house on Artell this morning, he’s just gone to Even money for the job.
Any manager looking for a job at this level should be proud to be in charge of this club, and if they aren't, then see ya.
Don't know if Artell was in the running or not, or whether he has been offered the job or not, but if he has and he thinks he can do better, then jog on I say.
Any manager looking for a job at this level should be proud to be in charge of this club, and if they aren't, then see ya.
Absolutely this! We run ourselves down far too much in terms of our club but also the Town in general. About time that stopped.. we’re a good well run club with a progressive and supportive ownership structure. Also, we have a big and passionate fan base at this level. Any manager would be bloody lucky to have a chance to manage us.
You don’t want to come, ok - urine off then and we’ll find someone that does!
From what I'm reading on here n twitter n what I'm being told privately, it's all gone t!ts up, n is a bit of a mess
Hardly a shock. We've decided to do everything in a pretentious holier than thou vain. We're excrement and desperately need a manager. Any manager worth getting is going to want to bring his own team in and it'll be expensive, we're trying to take the cheap option. Nothing's changed
From what I'm reading on here n twitter n what I'm being told privately, it's all gone t!ts up, n is a bit of a mess
What you read on here & Twitter is generally nonsense or supposition. The quality of what you’re being “told privately” depends on who’s telling you, which of course all those privy to such private conversations never travel their sources.
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
Hardly a shock. We've decided to do everything in a pretentious holier than thou vain. We're excrement and desperately need a manager. Any manager worth getting is going to want to bring his own team in and it'll be expensive, we're trying to take the cheap option. Nothing's changed
How do you truly know this?
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
Hardly a shock. We've decided to do everything in a pretentious holier than thou vain. We're excrement and desperately need a manager. Any manager worth getting is going to want to bring his own team in and it'll be expensive, we're trying to take the cheap option. Nothing's changed
But people like you always insisted the former owner never took the cheap option? 🤷♂️
From what I'm reading on here n twitter n what I'm being told privately, it's all gone t!ts up, n is a bit of a mess
The longer you drag out a recruitment process the more likely this is to happen.
Over 4 weeks to pick a manager when you planned it for 6 more is unnecessarily long and will be a huge reason why this has supposedly gone mammaries up.
What you read on here & Twitter is generally nonsense or supposition. The quality of what you’re being “told privately” depends on who’s telling you, which of course all those privy to such private conversations never travel their sources.
Those talking about what they’re being told in private, or by trusted sources, or what they’re hearing from inside the club (the fųcking groundsman was named as being ITK yesterday) would do well to remember how the last 2 or 3 transfer windows have gone for their sources.
I know this forum is built for rumours and speculation (and that’s part and parcel of football) but it always makes me laugh when one person claims they know ‘the truth’ because a mate who’s well-informed told them something, then immediately others are on here saying ‘Yeah that’s what I’ve been hearing’ as well.
Chances are it’s from the same person, who probably isn’t as informed as they make out and, hey presto, you have a rumour circulating based on pretty much nothing.
We’ve had people on this thread saying Healy’s a done deal, it’s Artell, the Cowley’s have been interviewed, etc. No one knows anything, that’s pretty clear now from the fact that we’ve had nearly 200 pages of comments on here and not one person in my mind has come off looking like they’re ‘in the know’.
I’m sure a few have credible sources but I’d suspect even they are struggling to get credible info on this. Speculation starts off fun (and remains fun for many) but for others it gets them worried, then annoyed, etc, because they choose to believe it.
For all we know, nothing may have been planned to be announced on Friday. We don’t have any concrete proof that was 100% the plan. So nothing may have ‘gone south’.
"Don't shine that light in my face, mate - I've just lost a pint of blood."
I'm sure most of it is just Facebook speculation and this is their first time in trying to choose a manager.
I have to wonder though why they are taking this long?
What is the point of all these other advisors the 21st group and Gareth Jennings if we are not quick enough to identify more quickly the man we want.
The new man is not going to be here forever so doesn't need to share the values, nor have B Corp accreditation tattooed on his arm, he just needs to be capable of bringing some order to under performing players.
I think they are trying to run before they can walk in some ways. I was surprised Stockwood seemed surprised he had applications on the way home from sacking Hurst. This is professional football, dog eat dog and the normal business etiquette does not necessarily apply.
What I would say is that Ben 's post match interview when he admitted he was unsure as to what was happening, was in direct contrast to their previous interviews when theyve been v confident that they would be in charge for the next game. Might suggest things have got a bit messy
It wouldn't surprise me if it has gone south. To hear publicly that we were essentially playing two candidates off one another, the brutal admission that it's 1 in, 1 out in January and that the two caretakers are a non-negotiable part of the furniture going forward may have prompted a change of heart.
We all know that Shaun and Ben are great people, but they are probably quite unknown to whoever comes in. I hope it hasn't gone south, we were told that we were very close, so the board have given themselves a lot of pressure to announce someone within the next few days.
What I would say is that Ben 's post match interview when he admitted he was unsure as to what was happening, was in direct contrast to their previous interviews when theyve been v confident that they would be in charge for the next game. Might suggest things have got a bit messy
You seem to have some information so please either share it or stop stirring the excrement.
Not sure why a number 2 would be an issue as we sacked a manager & assistant didn’t we?
Jason denied that Ben and Shaun would be assistants, just confirmed they will be part of the coaching set-up going forward. This suggestion that the new Head Coach is being denied an assistant is nonsense, but I could understand why the new Head Coach would have a few reservations about two people highly thought of by the owners have to stick around. Football management is a paranoid industry.
Jason denied that Ben and Shaun would be assistants, just confirmed they will be part of the coaching set-up going forward. This suggestion that the new Head Coach is being denied an assistant is nonsense, but I could understand why the new Head Coach would have a few reservations about two people highly thought of by the owners have to stick around. Football management is a paranoid industry.
To be honest I would take the view that’s it’s great to have 2 guys who know the club inside out, know the players, know the area and what the club means to the fans. Let’s be honest Shaun is not really involved in first team matters and will return to his previous role and Ben hasn’t got the right badges to become Manager so neither a threat to any new Manager appointed.
At this level we should not be considering any Manager who wants to bring with him anyone other than an Assistant.
I've not woken to any new news. As far as I'm aware, we are in the same position as Friday. Everyone was saying it was done, it wasn't. Now people saying it's off, ive not heard that...
Jason denied that Ben and Shaun would be assistants, just confirmed they will be part of the coaching set-up going forward. This suggestion that the new Head Coach is being denied an assistant is nonsense, but I could understand why the new Head Coach would have a few reservations about two people highly thought of by the owners have to stick around. Football management is a paranoid industry.
Yeah get this, but if you don’t trust owners like 1878 you’re probably not right for us anyway.
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
Yeah get this, but if you don’t trust owners like 1878 you’re probably not right for us anyway.
All in all, it seems that announcing that you've been considering a change of manager for 6 weeks then taking a further 4 (and counting) to find a new one wasn't a particularly wise move. Same as announcing that the manager would get all of the Cup money to spend or that a training ground was imminent.
EDIT: And possibly announcing that Ben and Shaun would remain when a new manager takes over (allegedly).
To be honest I would take the view that’s it’s great to have 2 guys who know the club inside out, know the players, know the area and what the club means to the fans. Let’s be honest Shaun is not really involved in first team matters and will return to his previous role and Ben hasn’t got the right badges to become Manager so neither a threat to any new Manager appointed.
At this level we should not be considering any Manager who wants to bring with him anyone other than an Assistant.
Really? It's his name above the door and I could see exactly why he would want his own people not someone else's.
Rumours are rumours i know and should/will be taken with a pinch of salt, but yesterday heard a group sat next to me discussing( yes I was ear wigging tbh) about the situation. Apparently they'd been given a snippet of info, Hurst knew his fate before the game yesterday, and the club have gone for a DOF and are in talks with York over Ardley... Like I said before you all ooozie 45mm me, its a rumour.
9mm
An Exile and Proud !! UTM Mariners Trust Life Member. In the words of my Uncle Fred "You can take the man outta of Grimsby BUT you can't take the Grimsby! Out the man!"
What I would say is that Ben 's post match interview when he admitted he was unsure as to what was happening, was in direct contrast to their previous interviews when theyve been v confident that they would be in charge for the next game. Might suggest things have got a bit messy
Frustrating for all , for me i see this scenario is dragging On to long to detriment of the team in the cold light of day on A sunday morning at the table with a pot of tea. The more it drags on the worst place we will end up and we have Been there before. To quote JS "Not rushing in" , is not doing us any good. UTM
An Exile and Proud !! UTM Mariners Trust Life Member. In the words of my Uncle Fred "You can take the man outta of Grimsby BUT you can't take the Grimsby! Out the man!"
Sooner people realise no one knows anything the better. It’ll likely all play out this week with no harm done.
Exactly , how did this comment get a red cross. We will be offering a decent salary and success brings opportunity here or elsewhere. Our owners will be decent guys to work with. Success this season is staying up and so not the hardest gig utm
I think we are in danger of letting ourselves get abit carried away with rumour and speculation and jumping the gun a little.
If it transpires we’ve mucked this up then it’s fine to have that debate and criticise, just think we need to know that before we do. However we’re football fans, most of what we do is speculate 😂
The opposite of being ‘slow’ is being diligent and vice versa. I’m sure we could also make an argument and the owners would get criticism if we jumped the gun and we made a quick but ultimately poor appointment (Slade Mk2). Let’s see where we are at the end of the process before we make definite conclusions on it.
I think it’s obvious the club thought they had something to announce Friday and that changed. Had they made an Artell appointment Friday morning I don’t think we’d have had many criticising the time or process..
I’m still pretty hopeful early next week will bring good news.
They said it was down to the last two candidates, it doesn't seem likely to me at least, that it could go mammaries up with both candidates at this late stage, two gives the processat least some resilience. There's nothing in that fans forum they wouldn't have been privy to at their interviews. Maybe one will have had a change of heart but both, nah I still expect an appointment early next week.
I think we are in danger of letting ourselves get abit carried away with rumour and speculation and jumping the gun a little.
If it transpires we’ve mucked this up then it’s fine to have that debate and criticise, just think we need to know that before we do. However we’re football fans, most of what we do is speculate 😂
The opposite of being ‘slow’ is being diligent and vice versa. I’m sure we could also make an argument and the owners would get criticism if we jumped the gun and we made a quick but ultimately poor appointment (Slade Mk2). Let’s see where we are at the end of the process before we make definite conclusions on it.
I think it’s obvious the club thought they had something to announce Friday and that changed. Had they made an Artell appointment Friday morning I don’t think we’d have had many criticising the time or process..
I’m still pretty hopeful early next week will bring good news.
People have been criticising the time and process since about the day Hurst got sacked. To say that you've been talking about sacking him for 6 weeks, when we were doing OK at that time, and not have had a single consideration for who or what you want next sounds stupid at best.
People have been criticising the time and process since about the day Hurst got sacked. To say that you've been talking about sacking him for 6 weeks, when we were doing OK at that time, and not have had a single consideration for who or what you want next sounds stupid at best.
Yet again I think your framing of what you say is quite remarkable and probably somewhat biased.
Some people will always criticise. To do so from day one is telling. We clearly have had a consideration for who we want, but that doesn't necessarily mean you don’t go through a process. 4 weeks to me sounds about right for applications, due diligence, interviewing and negotiating. It’s the same length as Lincoln, Bradford and Gillingham.. so clearly not out the ordinary.
The 6 weeks thing is, I believe, somewhat misinterpreted. 6 weeks of firstly been aware you may have to make a decision, looking at then and also who MIGHT be available sounds fairly reasonable. It doesn’t mean they’ve been looking for a new manager for those 6 weeks.
Twitter is awash with rumours that Artel has now walked away favouring a move to Morecambe, we are in a mess if managers see Morecambe as a better prospect than ourselves
If we're going off rumours and innuendo, whilst attacking the club for taking its time, it was widely reported around Altrincham that we did approach Parkinson in the week after Hurst sacking and he politely turned us down.
Now if, very big if granted, that is true, then you can imagine that we did identify certain candidates and reach out and probably received a few knock backs which drags the process on further.
The plan always seemed to be before the fans forum to have a new manager in place, now depending on what he said, she said is out there, it's quite obvious something caused a hitch to that plan.
What that hitch is/was nobody but the ones involved will know until a lot of time has passed as is usually the case.
That being said, I am polishing off my Dave Moore autographed photo in preparation....
Twitter is awash with rumours that Artel has now walked away favouring a move to Morecambe, we are in a mess if managers see Morecambe as a better prospect than ourselves
Morecambe are the club Artell made most league appearances for (110).
His playing and coaching career suggest he’s been based in the north west since 2005; Morecambe is in the north west.
Morecambe are currently 2 points outside of the play-offs; we are 4 points above the relegation zone, with the team second bottom having a game in hand on us.
Morecambe were in League One last season; we haven’t played at that level for 19 years very nearly 20 years.
This might make for uncomfortable reading, but Morecambe are most likely a way more attractive proposition to David Artell than we are. If it’s a straight choice, I think he’d be mental to choose us, with all the upheaval it would mean for him, than the Shrimpers.
Morecambe are the club Artell made most league appearances for (110).
His playing and coaching career suggest he’s been based in the north west since 2005; Morecambe is in the north west.
Morecambe are currently 2 points outside of the play-offs; we are 4 points above the relegation zone, with the team second bottom having a game in hand on us.
Morecambe were in League One last season; we haven’t played at that level for 19 years.
This might make for uncomfortable reading, but Morecambe are most likely a way more attractive proposition to David Artell than we are. If it’s a straight choice, I think he’d be mental to choose us, with all the upheaval it would mean for him, than the Shrimpers.
And forza ivano has stuck money on him...so we can now pretty much discount Artell now.
Morecambe is obviously a better fit for Artell and I get why he’d go there.
The club can hold their hands up and say ‘can’t help if he’s got a better option’ but the fact is we allowed that door to be opened by taking far too long to get to this point.
I said in the Just Back thread yesterday that ‘time kills deals’ and that’s exactly what (appears to have) happened here.
Twitter is awash with rumours that Artel has now walked away favouring a move to Morecambe, we are in a mess if managers see Morecambe as a better prospect than ourselves
Smaller club but in the same league, above us, and possibly closer to his home. Could be geographic and financial and family factors; none of which you or the rest of us know nothing about, so a bit daft to be making sweeping statements. Besides, if he isn’t champing at bit to come here, I don’t want him anyway.
Smaller club but in the same league, above us, and possibly closer to his home. Could be geographic and financial and family factors; none of which you or the rest of us know nothing about, so a bit daft to be making sweeping statements. Besides, if he isn’t champing at bit to come here, I don’t want him anyway.
Having seen his online interview with Gabriel Sutton, I expect family will play a big part in his decision. That said, I don't see a queue of decent candidates waiting to take the job with us.
feck knows - it seems pretty obvious that something was planned for Friday but Artell pulled out; now whether that was Artell and/or his agent playing games, a bit of brinkmanship to get a better deal, or whether he is actually heading to Morecambe remains to be seen. 1 side says it's gone t!ts up, another side says it's still on and could be announced as soon as tomorrow - no wonder ben was so uncertain in his interview!
I’ve always been of the view that you’d want someone in by the start of December to have a month to look at the squad & work out what they’d want to do with it. Not massively worried that no one has come in just yet, but would hope it’s sorted in a week or so.
I’ve always been of the view that you’d want someone in by the start of December to have a month to look at the squad & work out what they’d want to do with it. Not massively worried that no one has come in just yet, but would hope it’s sorted in a week or so.
I seem to remember saying the same about two weeks ago.
feck knows - it seems pretty obvious that something was planned for Friday but Artell pulled out; now whether that was Artell and/or his agent playing games, a bit of brinkmanship to get a better deal, or whether he is actually heading to Morecambe remains to be seen. 1 side says it's gone t!ts up, another side says it's still on and could be announced as soon as tomorrow - no wonder ben was so uncertain in his interview!
It’s pretty obvious that JS was pretty drunk off whatever it was. I’m not sure whether it was Morison who pulled out leaving Artell the man, or Artell pulled out to go elsewhere. If it was the latter, have we been rejected by Cowleys, Parkinson, Morison and Artell. If so that’s pretty downheartening….
It’s pretty obvious that JS was pretty drunk off whatever it was. I’m not sure whether it was Morison who pulled out leaving Artell the man, or Artell pulled out to go elsewhere. If it was the latter, have we been rejected by Cowleys, Parkinson, Morison and Artell. If so that’s pretty downheartening….
It’s pretty obvious that JS was pretty drunk off whatever it was. I’m not sure whether it was Morison who pulled out leaving Artell the man, or Artell pulled out to go elsewhere. If it was the latter, have we been rejected by Cowleys, Parkinson, Morison and Artell. If so that’s pretty downheartening….
How do you know any of this?
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
Just for balance no evidence that any of these have turned us down other than the good old rumour mill but if people want to wallow so be it. We will make an appointment shortly so not worth getting mithered about who might or might not have been contacted about the job.
What has shocked me during these posts on several threads is the agenda that some people seem to have with our owners. Firstly they are Grimsby born and bred and massive Grimsby Town supporters, who are putting in large sums of their own money to try and achieve some measure of success for the club.
However, this doesn't seem to be enough for some people, and they resort to making snidey remarks about JS Guardian articles and B Corp. I have no idea what difference they think that makes to the every day running of GTFC, none as far as I can see.
We should be grateful that we have such good owners and are still not beholden to the whims of our previous owner.
So let me get this right, the people that knew absolutely nothing over the 4 weeks about anything managerial related, about canidates, who we was talking to or who is in the running... now know everything in regards to the deal supposedly falling through? Gotcha.
So let me get this right, the people that knew absolutely nothing over the 4 weeks about anything managerial related, about canidates, who we was talking to or who is in the running... now know everything in regards to the deal supposedly falling through? Gotcha.
What has shocked me during these posts on several threads is the agenda that some people seem to have with our owners. Firstly they are Grimsby born and bred and massive Grimsby Town supporters, who are putting in large sums of their own money to try and achieve some measure of success for the club.
However, this doesn't seem to be enough for some people, and they resort to making snidey remarks about JS Guardian articles and B Corp. I have no idea what difference they think that makes to the every day running of GTFC, none as far as I can see.
We should be grateful that we have such good owners and are still not beholden to the whims of our previous owner.
Some people just need a target. Once they’ve got rid of one, they move on to the next. It never ends.
Some people just need a target. Once they’ve got rid of one, they move on to the next. It never ends.
No one should need a target, nor should anyone think that a situation is perfect because it never is.
The chairman correctly made a point about many variables on Friday night, and that’s the issue. He can’t control what happens on the pitch and he can’t control what’s happening in a potential manager’s mind. It’s not his fault but it’s probably more difficult to control the number of variables that might occur in a football club compared to some of his previous business ventures.
There’s many of us who were on to Fenty from a very early stage. The current owners are way more capable than JF but there has to be a point where people can at least question what’s going on. I’m sure they know that they’re open to scrutiny without someone putting a target on their back.
Given the choice of managing Grimsby Town or Morecambe most people would surely choose The Mariners, particularly with the new owners at Blundell Park and the instability at Morecambe. There are only two things that might have swayed Artell; he played over one hundred times for The Shrimps and Crewe to Morecambe is an hour less journey time than Crewe to Cleethorpes. I still hope David Artell will be announced as the new Grimsby Town Manager within the next few days.
People have been criticising the time and process since about the day Hurst got sacked. To say that you've been talking about sacking him for 6 weeks, when we were doing OK at that time, and not have had a single consideration for who or what you want next sounds stupid at best.
What has shocked me during these posts on several threads is the agenda that some people seem to have with our owners. Firstly they are Grimsby born and bred and massive Grimsby Town supporters, who are putting in large sums of their own money to try and achieve some measure of success for the club.
However, this doesn't seem to be enough for some people, and they resort to making snidey remarks about JS Guardian articles and B Corp. I have no idea what difference they think that makes to the every day running of GTFC, none as far as I can see.
We should be grateful that we have such good owners and are still not beholden to the whims of our previous owner.
One of the (many) disappointing aspects of human nature is that some people, who have achieved very little in their lives, like to criticise those who have been successful because it makes them feel more important.
JS & AP are both successful businessmen in their own right. I do recall Lord Sugar saying some years ago that he regretted buying Spurs, him being another very successful businessman.
At the start of their tenure, both JS & Ap and DC all said that they were on a steep learning curve about running a football club. I suspect that the curve is steeper than they thought and like, Lord Sugar, have found out that is totally different to any business's they have experienced before.
With this in mind, it is probably the reason why the delay in a new manager is taking so long. Perhaps the shaking of the hand means to1878 a deal has been done, but to the other party "Good to see you and we''ll talk again".
If there isn't an announcement next week then the Christmas period will be nerve-racking for all concerned.
You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
Talking of all the rumours around this manager, that manager, I think I heard the rumour to beat most rumours yesterday...to the point I actually laughed out at the bloke telling it and upset him.. The club have bought Immingham golf club, that's the new training ground!!.. Honestly, I ask you.
Talking of all the rumours around this manager, that manager, I think I heard the rumour to beat most rumours yesterday...to the point I actually laughed out at the bloke telling it and upset him.. The club have bought Immingham golf club, that's the new training ground!!.. Honestly, I ask you.
As far as rumours go that's par for the course...did a little birdie tell him!
People are making disparaging posts based on absolutely no knowledge of what the facts are behind the scenes.
I think some people wake up in the morning and think "what can I get annoyed about today?" I recommend a 7 mile walk along the beach, preferably with a dog, to work off those negative thoughts. Worked wonders for me this morning.
My most treasured moments were doing just that, on the beach or in the Wolds. If you've got the time to put in, and never had one, get a dog and get out walking somewhere quiet and beautiful in all weathers. Incredibly uplifting for the soul..
Talking of all the rumours around this manager, that manager, I think I heard the rumour to beat most rumours yesterday...to the point I actually laughed out at the bloke telling it and upset him.. The club have bought Immingham golf club, that's the new training ground!!.. Honestly, I ask you.
That's not as ridiculous or absurd as you imply.
The Future is Black & White. "The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
Talking of all the rumours around this manager, that manager, I think I heard the rumour to beat most rumours yesterday...to the point I actually laughed out at the bloke telling it and upset him.. The club have bought Immingham golf club, that's the new training ground!!.. Honestly, I ask you.
Had some bad days on that course! Hell of a lot of trees would need clearing plus it had that very uneven ground in the early holes which would probably explain the estimated £6m to get it up and running.
It is....the only part the club owned (and up for sale) was the front 9 holes. The land was ex farmland and the club utilised the farrowing to contour the fairways and access is not easy having to get down bluestone lane. The cost just to flatten and level the land would be astronomical, certainly more than the 5-6 million AP talked of.
Had some bad days on that course! Hell of a lot of trees would need clearing plus it had that very uneven ground in the early holes which would probably explain the estimated £6m to get it up and running.
Still would seem an odd choice
I was a member there from '83 through to '99....loved it until they built the white elephant of a clubhouse, shame because it was so family orientated until then.
Speaking of new pitches, the first of the surfaces are now down at Clee Fields, and it's looking good. Will be a cracking facility when it's up and running.
New manager appointed on Monday, but at the end of the season we are relegated, does that make the very long process of “getting the right man in” wrong ?
I was sure we have been unbeaten under the caretakers!?
"The socialism I believe in is everybody working for the same goal and everybody having a share in the rewards. That’s how I see football, that’s how I see life.” Bill Shankly
I’m so pleased if it’s definitely not Morison as I think he’d have taken us down given his inexperience and lack of knowledge of the league. I’d be surprised if he was considered though.
Just goes to show you should never bother reading the Daily Mirror.
Just goes to show you should never bother reading the Daily Mirror.
Or The Sun, or the Daily Racist, or The Express, or any tabloid bogroll. It's all excrement, and you end up dumber and less informed after you've consumed it.
I was sure we have been unbeaten under the caretakers!?
Agreed - Ben and Shaun have done well - having been thrown the poisoned chalice of the sacking of Paul and Chris Stick with them I say. Otherwise - we will definitely be non league again next season. Demolishing structures usually means you have to start again UTM
Blundell Park - The Home of Grimsby Town Football Club (still)
Agreed - Ben and Shaun have done well - having been thrown the poisoned chalice of the sacking of Paul and Chris Stick with them I say. Otherwise - we will definitely be non league again next season. Demolishing structures usually means you have to start again UTM
If we continue with the players, tactics like on Saturday we will be gone long before the season ends.
The problem we have is, whoever takes over as permanent manager has to work with these players.
If we cannot bring anyone in without shifting others out, we're going to be limited in how we manoeuvre come January. Also, we'll only be able to pick up those that aren't particularly important to their team. So bit part players in league 1 for example, but only if they can replace them squad wise. I don't see more than 2 players coming in based on what's said, so the new manager will have to work wonders with this squad until the summer, and then shape it more to how they would like it. Even then, we will have players still under contract, and they may not be able to make changes to the extent they need to unless some club is willing to take players off our hands.
Any changes we make will be evolutionary rather than revolutionary if we're doing this sustainably, and I don't think fans are going to be delighted with that.
Maybe? But sacking everyone just creates a negative atmosphere for everyone. A new manager would want his / her new back room staff in. The players we have would know they are likely to be weeded out on to the next club again. The uncertainty of is it a new manager or is it not is enough to kill the season This scenario being played out was totally unnecessary imo
Blundell Park - The Home of Grimsby Town Football Club (still)
Maybe? But sacking everyone just creates a negative atmosphere for everyone. A new manager would want his / her new back room staff in. The players we have would know they are likely to be weeded out on to the next club again. The uncertainty of is it a new manager or is it not is enough to kill the season This scenario being played out was totally unnecessary imo
@ arry arry cheers
Blundell Park - The Home of Grimsby Town Football Club (still)
Maybe? But sacking everyone just creates a negative atmosphere for everyone. A new manager would want his / her new back room staff in. The players we have would know they are likely to be weeded out on to the next club again. The uncertainty of is it a new manager or is it not is enough to kill the season This scenario being played out was totally unnecessary imo
It’s true that we are unbeaten in five games but two of those games were against NLN opposition and two were against the bottom two teams in the division. We won only one of those four games and the performance in these matches have been very patchy to say the least and defensive errors remain commonplace.
Huge task for whoever takes over. Our cushion over the bottom two is getting very thin now. The last two matches were a golden opportunity to distance ourselves from the drop zone but we were simply not good enough to take it.
Given our next few games we could easily find ourselves in the bottom two very soon.
Do some of you actually read or listen to what is said and/or published?
Ben and Shaun cannot stay on as Managers because they don’t have the necessary qualifications end of, move on.
I do. I’m sure Debbie said that you get “2 or 3 years, I can’t remember which to get your Pro licence “. Ben has already got his A badges, Shaun is in the midst of getting his.
Had some bad days on that course! Hell of a lot of trees would need clearing plus it had that very uneven ground in the early holes which would probably explain the estimated £6m to get it up and running.
It's interesting that out of all the rumours out there, JS chooses to comment on the Morison one. Not wishing to fan the flames, but curious as to why?
Let's be honest, for all we know, nothing was ever planned to be announced on Friday. I'm aware there were a few tweets floating around, one from JT, which appeared to be cryptic, but that may have just so easily have been sent in jest.
We are piecing together a jigsaw while not having all the pieces. We also don't have the picture on the box.
It's difficult and we're getting short-tempered and frustrated. But that's not the owners' fault. Rather than giving the owners the benefit of any doubt, it's far easier to plant those seeds of doubt through the perceived inactivity and lack of updates.
But a lack of updates (and yes, I'm aware JS said he'd keep us updated regularly) doesn't necessarily equate to bad news — rather, they're probably trying to keep their powder dry.
JS stated quite clearly at the fans' forum that if you show your hand, it can have an adverse effect on negotiations and puts us in a weaker position. That's all the justification we need to know in terms of why they're preferring to keep things under wraps.
Maybe we'll never know what's actually been going on. All I know if that, if we appoint someone and they're a success, no one will remember how long the appointment process took.
Likewise, if they appoint someone and we crash and burn, people will be so wrapped up in anger and dismay that no one will point to the 'extra week or two' it took to get them in, because that wouldn't be a reason why we failed.
Have we all not got better things to do while 1878 crack on with what they're entrusted to do? Have a little faith, have a little more patience.
"Don't shine that light in my face, mate - I've just lost a pint of blood."
I do. I’m sure Debbie said that you get “2 or 3 years, I can’t remember which to get your Pro licence “. Ben has already got his A badges, Shaun is in the midst of getting his.
Ben said that he wouldn't be going for a Pro Licence as it was too expensive.
Social media is king and people are perpetually prepared to be outraged over gossip and speculation, espoused in general by people no more qualified or in the know than them. Said gossip is bolstered by well meaning people applying reasonable but potentially flawed logic to it and it takes on more life.
The continually and habitually angry get more so and no value to any discussion is added because everyone just regurgitates the same points and arguments in ever increasing shouty and desperate tones.
A gazillion pages in and by and large we’re clueless! I absolutely get people care passionately and we do love to talk shop (it’s a forum after all) but I worry for people’s well-being.
If the fishy had a well person check I’d reckon it would be going in for a bypass and may not make it off the operating table!
“I know writers who use subtext and they’re all cowards.” –Garth Marenghi
Social media is king and people are perpetually prepared to be outraged over gossip and speculation, espoused in general by people no more qualified or in the know than them. Said gossip is bolstered by well meaning people applying reasonable but potentially flawed logic to it and it takes on more life.
The continually and habitually angry get more so and no value to any discussion is added because everyone just regurgitates the same points and arguments in ever increasing shouty and desperate tones.
A gazillion pages in and by and large we’re clueless! I absolutely get people care passionately and we do love to talk shop (it’s a forum after all) but I worry for people’s well-being.
If the fishy had a well person check I’d reckon it would be going in for a bypass and may not make it off the operating table!
Or it's a forum for debate and opinion whilst it's cold and pissing down outside.
Social media is king and people are perpetually prepared to be outraged over gossip and speculation, espoused in general by people no more qualified or in the know than them. Said gossip is bolstered by well meaning people applying reasonable but potentially flawed logic to it and it takes on more life.
The continually and habitually angry get more so and no value to any discussion is added because everyone just regurgitates the same points and arguments in ever increasing shouty and desperate tones.
A gazillion pages in and by and large we’re clueless! I absolutely get people care passionately and we do love to talk shop (it’s a forum after all) but I worry for people’s well-being.
If the fishy had a well person check I’d reckon it would be going in for a bypass and may not make it off the operating table!
We are just having a gossip about our local club. Some of us take more stick for sometimes going against the consensus but it's all good rollicking fun surely?
If we hear anything today manager wise there will be another gazillion things to pontificate on.
intercourse me. Can we just close this thread until an announcement is made please?
Clearly none of us have a clue who the new manager is, what's going on and/or what went on last week. We might have a manager in time for the MK Dons game, we might not. We might have a new manager in place for the weekend, then again we might not.
Everyone getting their knickers in a twist every time anyone at the club takes a breath isn't going to change a thing. I don't mind people getting anxious that we're circling the drain again and have failed to beat two fellow relegation candidates (pains me to even think of those words!). But the hanging off every single word uttered by Stockwood or Davies hoping for a clue or even trying to interpret cryptic messages on here has got to be draining!
We are just having a gossip about our local club. Some of us take more stick for sometimes going against the consensus but it's all good rollicking fun surely?
If we hear anything today manager wise there will be another gazillion things to pontificate on.
I suppose it depends on your idea of fun I guess!
Absolutely there will be and we’ll have something concrete to debate. I suppose after 2million pages of the same stuff we (or maybe just me) have anticipation fatigue and an announcement will give us new manager bounce for another few hundred pages.
“I know writers who use subtext and they’re all cowards.” –Garth Marenghi
Absolutely there will be and we’ll have something concrete to debate. I suppose after 2million pages of the same stuff we (or maybe just me) have anticipation fatigue and an announcement will give us new manager bounce for another few hundred pages.
Absolutely there will be and we’ll have something concrete to debate. I suppose after 2million pages of the same stuff we (or maybe just me) have anticipation fatigue and an announcement will give us new manager bounce for another few hundred pages.
Simples, don't participate in said forum, switch off, and go read a book.
My understanding is someone is arriving today. Nothing is signed, but more than likely will be today.
This doesn't mean an announcement will be today.
😂
"Falls to Arnold... Arnold! That's it! Thats it! He's sealed it! Grimsby Town are back in the football league!!! Just a minute to go and Nathan Arnold makes it 3-1! Look at the scenes behind the goal! Look at the relief! The agony is finally over!!!"
John Tondeur - Wembley Stadium Sunday 15th May 2016
I hope this situation is resolved soon, it is doing my anxiety no good at all. Last night I wet the bed, after Saturday's performance I am worried about how this season is going to pan out.
I do. I’m sure Debbie said that you get “2 or 3 years, I can’t remember which to get your Pro licence “. Ben has already got his A badges, Shaun is in the midst of getting his.
She said 3 years and all the talk of having to have their licences straight away was a red herring.
Whoever comes in needs to perform a miracle to get us out of this... Especially as Stockwood mentions that to bring any players in during January, we need to offload.
The fact of the matter is, at least 5-6 of our 'first team' players aren't good enough and their replacements on the bench aren't either. Performances at the minute also suggest we wont have any suitors lined up to take any players off our hands so we could be stuck with what we have, or have to bring in some unknown U23 players, which lets be honest hasnt worked out very well in recent seasons (barring Smith).
Appreciate theres a long way to go this season, but I genuinely have concerns for our league status and I am certainly not confident on us picking up many points in the next 6 league games before the end of the year.
Dissapointed that Hurst was allowed to spend our whole budget and theres no contingency for January.
Batch, Crombie, Moore K, Wiggington, Cumming, Waters, Bonnyman, Ford, Emson, Drinkell, Whymark. Love you all, You are the reason I'm on here. You've had help from Todd, Handyside, Futcher P, Groves, Mendonca, Macca etc etc etc. Up The Mariners!!!!!!!!!
Artell says he turned down a job last week, which could only have been Morecambe, couldn’t it? If so, impressive we’ve been able to get him in, in spite in of the points I called out below yesterday.
Morecambe are the club Artell made most league appearances for (110).
His playing and coaching career suggest he’s been based in the north west since 2005; Morecambe is in the north west.
Morecambe are currently 2 points outside of the play-offs; we are 4 points above the relegation zone, with the team second bottom having a game in hand on us.
Morecambe were in League One last season; we haven’t played at that level for 19 years very nearly 20 years.
This might make for uncomfortable reading, but Morecambe are most likely a way more attractive proposition to David Artell than we are. If it’s a straight choice, I think he’d be mental to choose us, with all the upheaval it would mean for him, than the Shrimpers.
Artell says he turned down a job last week, which could only have been Morecambe, couldn’t it? If so, impressive we’ve been able to get him in, in spite in of the points I called out below yesterday.
Because despite what some people think, we have good owners that are doing a very good job and have a clear plan of where they want the football club to go to and he's bought into that. They've won him over, kudos to Jason, Andrew and Debbie for getting it done.
Because despite what some people think, we have good owners that are doing a very good job and have a clear plan of where they want the football club to go to and he's bought into that. They've won him over, kudos to Jason, Andrew and Debbie for getting it done.
Which is why it’s important not to wade in with strong judgements until a particular matter is concluded. Of course, the proof will be in the pudding now, performances and results need to improve markedly from here on in, but on the surface we’ve appointed someone who has achieved something Hurst never did; win a promotion in the football league.
Morecambe is obviously a better fit for Artell and I get why he’d go there.
The club can hold their hands up and say ‘can’t help if he’s got a better option’ but the fact is we allowed that door to be opened by taking far too long to get to this point.
I said in the Just Back thread yesterday that ‘time kills deals’ and that’s exactly what (appears to have) happened here.
Or not!
“I know writers who use subtext and they’re all cowards.” –Garth Marenghi
Really funny that this clown from the Sunday Mirror is still claiming his mate Morison who achieved nothing but failure at Cardiff was actually the first choice, and Artell is only here as the back-up option
Really funny that this clown from the Sunday Mirror is still claiming his mate Morison who achieved nothing but failure at Cardiff was actually the first choice, and Artell is only here as the back-up option
Tweet 1729084664772694297 will appear here...
Journalists these days, honestly....
He works for Reach Group. He’s not journalist, he is a click bait merchant. He knows fúck all, other than how to frame a headline for maximum engagement.
intercourse me. Can we just close this thread until an announcement is made please?
Clearly none of us have a clue who the new manager is, what's going on and/or what went on last week. We might have a manager in time for the MK Dons game, we might not. We might have a new manager in place for the weekend, then again we might not.
Everyone getting their knickers in a twist every time anyone at the club takes a breath isn't going to change a thing. I don't mind people getting anxious that we're circling the drain again and have failed to beat two fellow relegation candidates (pains me to even think of those words!). But the hanging off every single word uttered by Stockwood or Davies hoping for a clue or even trying to interpret cryptic messages on here has got to be draining!
He works for Reach Group. He’s not journalist, he is a click bait merchant. He knows fúck all, other than how to frame a headline for maximum engagement.
Absolutely this!
Caught out being an absolute whopper but lacks the humility, self awareness and good grace to hold his hands up. It’s easier to reframe it so he was not wrong in the face of being called for his bullshit by a man who is likely to know. From his point of view he’ll say he has to continue to get clicks otherwise his credibility is shot! I’d argue footy fans are that eager for a ‘scoop’ or to get ahead of the game that they’ll have soon have forgotten it by the next rumour. I have to say I’m guilty of that too. Human nature I suppose.
“I know writers who use subtext and they’re all cowards.” –Garth Marenghi
I was so hacked off with ridiculous rumours; unfounded conspiracy theories; 2+2 and making 5 etc that I went on Praise and Grumble with a new name Lars Huupt Swede who manages SJK in Finland Several fell for it - one poster actually checked who SJK manager was and someone said Twitter had nothing..
Lars Huupt Probably good job he didn't come - he was a mixed up version of Paul Hurst anyway...
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but for those who don't and believe they offer no value, I've just given some that reflect that in comparison with the rest of the league there's nothing at all to suggest we're defensive. There's evidence to suggest our lower shots at goal and shots on target ratio can be attributed to individual error in giving the ball away, and perhaps a lack of creating chances through the middle hinders us but we are far from conclusively defensive.
WLLW - ended
