Town's top performers by FOTMOB categories

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

[b] x G + A per 90 (b)

Is that the instructions they give subs from the i pad when coming on?

No wonder they don't make any impression.

I preferred " go on son, get us a goal"

It's beyond parody.

The only thing that's beyond parody here is you stomping into a stats thread to yet again proclaim your gleeful ignorance of advanced football statistics like a boring broken record.

Does having a high or low xG per 90 have a direct 1 to 1 correlation with your league position? No (but clubs with high xG will typically be near the top of the league and those with low xG will be down the bottom - see for yourself).

Does using xG and some of the other stats here help coaches with highlighting aspects of team and individual performance and give them insights as to what is working well and what could be going better with their tactics? Yes, which is why clubs, including Town, pay about £3k a month for access to platforms like Wyscout (https://www.hudl.com/en_gb/products/wyscout) which are jammed full of analysis on opponents / potential signings and includes reams of stats of this nature.

They're useful and have a place in modern football, get over it.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Isn't it vitally important to know what he did with it? Otherwise we may as well get the fastest athlete we can find to chase people down only for him to have to keep doing that because he loses it every time?

I don't think it is doing the players any favours either. Every stat is fraught with difficulties and they could be trying to do the right thing for the team and still come bottom of the pile.

But you would get that from another stat or combination of stats.

Not sure why you think it is not doing the players any favours, stats help them develop by highlighting key strengths and weaknesses. You then build a strawman argument to try and defend your dislike of stats. Come bottom of the pile of what stat?

Quoted from Chrisblor

The only thing that's beyond parody here is you stomping into a stats thread to yet again proclaim your gleeful ignorance of advanced football statistics like a boring broken record.

Does having a high or low xG per 90 have a direct 1 to 1 correlation with your league position? No (but clubs with high xG will typically be near the top of the league and those with low xG will be down the bottom - see for yourself).

Does using xG and some of the other stats here help coaches with highlighting aspects of team and individual performance and give them insights as to what is working well and what could be going better with their tactics? Yes, which is why clubs, including Town, pay about £3k a month for access to platforms like Wyscout (https://www.hudl.com/en_gb/products/wyscout) which are jammed full of analysis on opponents / potential signings and includes reams of stats of this nature.

They're useful and have a place in modern football, get over it.

Ooh we've got a high xg so we are near the top, probably.

What an insight, I wonder how we managed without it before.

It's a load of old balderdash.

I'd imagine the issue with the 'possession won final third' stat is how this is defined. If an opponent shanks a clearance from a corner and the ball drops to a player standing 5 yards outside the box, does it count as 'possession won'? Whenever possession is won by somebody, it is inevitably lost by somebody else, but crunching tackles are a bit different to having the ball dropping at your feet or a hopelessly misplaced pass.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Ooh we've got a high xg so we are near the top, probably.

What an insight, I wonder how we managed without it before.

It's a load of old balderdash.

Nope, you just don't understand it.

Pretty much the whole of professional football disagrees with you.

Quoted from Maringer

I'd imagine the issue with the 'possession won final third' stat is how this is defined. If an opponent shanks a clearance from a corner and the ball drops to a player standing 5 yards outside the box, does it count as 'possession won'? Whenever possession is won by somebody, it is inevitably lost by somebody else, but crunching tackles are a bit different to having the ball dropping at your feet or a hopelessly misplaced pass.

'Possession won’ implies the total sum of tackles, aerial duels won, interceptions, blocked crosses or shield outs (shielding the ball from an opponent and letting it run out of play).

A shanked clearance would go down as a Ball Recovery.

‘Ball recoveries’ stands for recovering the ball in a situation where neither team has possession or where the ball has been played directly to a player by an opponent. So, while possession won means a conscious effort in order to win the ball (through duels and/or interceptions), ball recoveries are picking up the ball when it belongs to no one.

‘Possession lost’ is broader — it sums up all events where possession is lost for a team — meaning incomplete passes, clearances, bad touches, miss-controls, incomplete crosses, or even being offside!

Due to such definitions, there is actually more possessions lost than possessions won in a single football match, because simply playing a pass into touch will grant player a ‘possession lost’ while nobody will get ‘possession won’ or a ‘ball recovery’.

Quoted from MarinerMal

'Possession won’ implies the total sum of tackles, aerial duels won, interceptions, blocked crosses or shield outs (shielding the ball from an opponent and letting it run out of play).

A shanked clearance would go down as a Ball Recovery.

‘Ball recoveries’ stands for recovering the ball in a situation where neither team has possession or where the ball has been played directly to a player by an opponent. So, while possession won means a conscious effort in order to win the ball (through duels and/or interceptions), ball recoveries are picking up the ball when it belongs to no one.

‘Possession lost’ is broader — it sums up all events where possession is lost for a team — meaning incomplete passes, clearances, bad touches, miss-controls, incomplete crosses, or even being offside!

Due to such definitions, there is actually more possessions lost than possessions won in a single football match, because simply playing a pass into touch will grant player a ‘possession lost’ while nobody will get ‘possession won’ or a ‘ball recovery’.

Thanks. The question then lies as to what counts as an interception. A crap pass kicked straight at you would be enough, I'd imagine, providing you manage to control it. If not, where does the line between good positioning and anticipation and sheer good fortune lie?

I think there is clearly something in xG, though it's not the be all and end all, but I'm not convinced by many of these other stats which don't really mean a huge amount without external context.

Now, if they wanted to look back through games from the halcyon days of the Buckley Mk. I era, they could do some good numbers for 'crunching tackles by a midfielder', 'sliding tackles by a midfielder' and 'backheels by mustachioed Welsh strikers'...

Quoted from Maringer

Thanks. The question then lies as to what counts as an interception. A crap pass kicked straight at you would be enough, I'd imagine, providing you manage to control it. If not, where does the line between good positioning and anticipation and sheer good fortune lie?

I think there is clearly something in xG, though it's not the be all and end all, but I'm not convinced by many of these other stats which don't really mean a huge amount without external context.

Now, if they wanted to look back through games from the halcyon days of the Buckley Mk. I era, they could do some good numbers for 'crunching tackles by a midfielder', 'sliding tackles by a midfielder' and 'backheels by mustachioed Welsh strikers'...

An interception is where a player reads an opponent’s pass and intercepts the ball by moving into the line of the intended pass. A crap pass kicked straight at you would be would go down as an incomplete pass.

What aren't you convinced about with football stats?

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Isn't it vitally important to know what he did with it? Otherwise we may as well get the fastest athlete we can find to chase people down only for him to have to keep doing that because he loses it every time?

I don't think it is doing the players any favours either. Every stat is fraught with difficulties and they could be trying to do the right thing for the team and still come bottom of the pile.

But that proves how the stats would be a valuable additional insight. If he's trying really hard to do what was being asked but not doing it effectively then you'd surely look to replace said player.

Because, as with refereeing decisions, a lot of it is in the eye of a beholder - i.e. the person collating the statistics.

If a player is under pressure, they are more likely to make a bad pass. At what point does a bad pass under pressure from one opponent become an interception because another opponent is closing down the space as the two put on a press together?

Very subjective. At least the xG is based on shooting opportunities within certain measurable bounds. It might be a nonsense for some opportunities but, on average, will probably have something in it given all the aspects are measurable.

A lot of the best defenders don't need to be seen lunging in and making the tackles because it is their positioning which stops their opponent being much of a threat - using their bodies to block runs, ease the ball out of play and so forth. Back in the good old days, Futcher barely seemed to do anything some games but much younger and quicker players couldn't get past him. It was marvellous to see, but I do wonder how much the modern statistical methods would have credited him for shutting opponents out of the game.

I don't mind accepting xG as potentially being useful, but personally don't think that many of these other new statistics have very much in them. Especially when it comes to the claim that Hunt, a player we know isn't great at tackling or getting involved in games, is a player that the stats reckon wins possession a lot.