20 years ago

Question on the BBC Sport Daily today asking which player from 20 years ago would you want in the current squad?

2003-04 wasn't a great season for us with a ridiculously high turnover of players too. Groves and Macca didn't have the best of seasons either so I'm gonna say no to both of them (only from that season, of course).

Based on that season alone it can only be Phil Jevons for me. Him cutting in from that left hand side would cause carnage in this division. Be a very, very decent option if we were going two up top too.

None of our players from 20 years ago could get in this team.

They are all 20 years older !!!!       

Wouldn't want any of the players but would want that beautiful kit.

Quoted from diehardmariner

Question on the BBC Sport Daily today asking which player from 20 years ago would you want in the current squad?

2003-04 wasn't a great season for us with a ridiculously high turnover of players too. Groves and Macca didn't have the best of seasons either so I'm gonna say no to both of them (only from that season, of course).

Based on that season alone it can only be Phil Jevons for me. Him cutting in from that left hand side would cause carnage in this division. Be a very, very decent option if we were going two up top too.

If we are talking about as they were 20 years ago then Grovesy was past his best and it was his final season in professional football.

Michael Boulding or Phil Jevons for me, both had decent scoring rates for us at opposite ends to the season really, Boulding dicked off to Barnsley mid-season after reportedly not being chuffed about Grovesy being sacked and Jevvo got a second wind and was banging them in for a while, he ended up going to Yeovil at the end of the season and that was the beginning of him being a prolific scorer.

Danny coyne

Iain Anderson was a good player so probably him.

It's actually scary looking back how close we were to staying up despite the mess going on behind the scenes and the high turnover of players. Groves was let go after a disastrous spell January into February featuring hammerings by Port Vale and Oldham but the mercenary manager and players on loan didn't do much better in saving a season that had jumped off a cliff after a decent enough start. There were claims that Groves had lost the dressing room at the time but keeping faith and seeing if he could turn it around would probably have been no worse than bringing in somebody else for the last few months who knew he was out of contract no matter what happens so had no stake in the season.

Quoted from Kris2

Iain Anderson was a good player so probably him.

It's actually scary looking back how close we were to staying up despite the mess going on behind the scenes and the high turnover of players. Groves was let go after a disastrous spell January into February featuring hammerings by Port Vale and Oldham but the mercenary manager and players on loan didn't do much better in saving a season that had jumped off a cliff after a decent enough start. There were claims that Groves had lost the dressing room at the time but keeping faith and seeing if he could turn it around would probably have been no worse than bringing in somebody else for the last few months who knew he was out of contract no matter what happens so had no stake in the season.

.....and still going strong in his musical career with Jethro Tull 😉

Stuart Cambell had a very good season that year and we cashed in 200K in the summer of 2004.

Quoted from Abdul19

Wouldn't want any of the players but would want that beautiful kit.

It hasn't dried out yet from going in the wash 20 years ago!

Boulding for his goals..  Mind you Campbell was a cracking player...

Quoted from Kris2

Iain Anderson was a good player so probably him.

It's actually scary looking back how close we were to staying up despite the mess going on behind the scenes and the high turnover of players. Groves was let go after a disastrous spell January into February featuring hammerings by Port Vale and Oldham but the mercenary manager and players on loan didn't do much better in saving a season that had jumped off a cliff after a decent enough start. There were claims that Groves had lost the dressing room at the time but keeping faith and seeing if he could turn it around would probably have been no worse than bringing in somebody else for the last few months who knew he was out of contract no matter what happens so had no stake in the season.

Rodger did turn it around (9 points from 6 games after Groves' run of hammerings), christ knows why that clown Law was brought in!

Aiden Davison in goal probably but hard to not mention Pouton as well.

Quoted from moosey_club

Aiden Davison in goal probably but hard to not mention Pouton as well.

A better question would be how many of the current squad would have got into that team

Quoted from HerveJosse

A better question would be how many of the current squad would have got into that team

Good point.

11

Quoted from HerveJosse

A better question would be how many of the current squad would have got into that team

I think Evan Khouri (born in January 2003) would have been more effective than some of that team.

Quoted from HerveJosse

A better question would be how many of the current squad would have got into that team

Given the team was in a higher division, it’s a pretty pointless comparison all round really. That said, if data and analytics are to be believed and the game has improved then you’d imagine Glennon, Waterfall (at a push), Rose (based on his previous before Town) could squeeze in.

My memories from the early 2000s and the mid 2000s are sketchy, mainly because of how shite it was and we just seemed to have a huge turnover of pointless players looking for a payday.

I’d actually imagine that if we were able to get the current squad to play against that squad, especially when Law took over, the current squad would win quite comfortably…

We had a decent squad that season, on paper.

Sadly it didn't really transform onto the pitch. The biggest gaps were a leader with experience at the back (one who wasn't also the manager) and a physical focal point up top to free Boulding up to poach away.  Neither of those issues were really fixed until much later in the season when Rodger brought in Craig Armstrong and Lee Thorpe respectively, neither exactly marquee signings but exactly what we needed.

A consistent 'keeper wouldn't have gone amiss either.

Having your best two central midfielders (Pouton and Coldicott) unavailable through injury and then one of them sold didn't help either.

Much like the previous season, if you could take the individual little patches of form from a handful of players and patch it together over the season we would have been fine.

Alas we didn't.  As Abdul says the decision to axe Rodger when he was getting a tune out of the squad for Nicky Law was so bad it's is up there with the worst decisions in John Fenty's reign!

I'm sure I remember reading that Nicky Law had the gall to apply for the permanent job in the summer? Despite failing to manage even a point a game. Absolutely abysmal.

It really was flipping dire - I went to that Tranmere game which saw us relegated and we looked utterly clueless, losing with barely a whimper against ten men. The Tranmere fans mocking and jeering after our relegation certainly didn't help! male masturbators.

The players we went through that season was obscene

GK: Aidan Davison, Alan Fettis, Andy Pettinger, Bradley Hughes, Paul Fraser

DF: John McDermott, Darren Barnard, Simon Ford, Tony Crane, Craig Armstrong, Greg Young, Kirk Wheeler, Iain Ward, Wes Parker, Mike Edwards, Jason Crowe

MF: Marcel Cas, Alan Pouton, Stuart Campbell, Paul Warhurst, Stacy Coldicott, Chris Bolder, Graham Hockless, Ashley Hildred, Des Hamilton, Iain Anderson, Paul Groves, John Thorrington, Nick Daws, Jamie Lawrence, Nick Hegarty

FW: Michael Boulding, Darren Mansaram, Phil Jevons, Iffy Onuora, Laurens ten Heuvel, Lee Thorpe, David Soames, Jonathan Rowan, Isaiah Rankin, Mickael Antoine-Curier, Giovanni Carchedi, Liam Nimmo

Can we name any player-managers in the top four leagues since Paul Groves?

edit:
Found this:
https://www.palatinate.org.uk/has-football-evolved-beyond-player-managers/

I'd forgotten Rooney had played a few games as player-,manager

The board copulated it that year. Had they let Jevons play in the first half of the season we would have stayed up. (They didn't because of money for appearances)

Had we not sold Pouton or Boulding we'd have stayed up.

I wouldn't be able to choose between Boulding and Jevons to add to this team.

Won't be a popular opinion, but I think Pouton was a spent force by then.  His injuries had caught up with him and those games that he did play that season he looked miles and miles off the pace, granted he had come back from a lengthy lay-off.

For me, the absence of Stacy Coldicott until the tail end of the season was bigger than the absence of Pouton.

Jevons over Boulding for me.  Boulding started like a house on fire but tailed off badly, to be fair Jevons didn't really do much in the final few months of the season either.  But Boulding was very much a finisher that season, his game had evolved since his first spell and he was less about doing the other bits for the team, whereas Jevons looked more capable of doing something rather than just scoring.  I think had we had both for the whole season and playing in tandem, we would have been very comfortable though.

As bad as it was under Groves, who was badly let down by the board throughout, we consistently bobbed around the lower mid-table places.  It was only the two points from Nicky Law's first five games that took us until the relegation places near the end of the season, briefly dipping out before getting caught by Chesterfield on the final day.

I remember this season well because I used to help out with Mariners World (as it was then).

Seemed to interview a new player every week! Yet, as DHM says, we started with a very capable squad. We were very inconsistent to begin with, but there were glimpses of potential in there.

Sadly, we could never get our best XI out on the field at any one time. I remember Iain Anderson starting the season in great form, but he had to serve a suspension for an elbow in the Port Vale game, and I remember Carl Boyeson doing us over in that cup game at Donny when Hamilton and Cas were both sent off.

One step forward, two steps back... then that night at Hartlepool.

I don't know how true this is, because it was only hearsay (albeit from within BP) but I think Groves could only sign players on a max of £1k per week. I think our highest earners had been on £3-4k in the Champ (Coyne).

Hence, we signed some talented players who'd struggled with injuries and others who were cheaper but just not up to it. I thought Mike Edwards was the only defender who emerged with any credit that season. Ford was likeable, but Groves admitted to over-playing him the season before. Crane was, well, unreliable. And probably unfit.

It was weird how we got relegated but finished with two different strikers on 12-13 goals each. Jevons plugged the Boulding gap and we continued to do alright up front. It was just chaos at the back.

If ever there's a case study of what happens when boards can't/won't back a manager with the necessary funds to compete, that was it.

It got so messy when Law came in. Rodger had steadied the ship somewhat. That big win over Barnsley, when Jevons scored 4 (and was only playing on the left!) showed that the team still had enough talent and enough fight to survive.

Law came in, made a raft of signings and it immediately became disjoined. Everything unravelled and it was a massive panic to try and scrape together enough points to survive. I think we only won one home game under Law!

Sad to think we've never competed at that level since. Just six years previously we'd taken teams at that level apart and won twice at Wembley.

It’s interesting now, looking back at players which, for me, didn’t necessarily stand out or stick in the memory yet had a huge influence or played a big part in the side. Caldicott stands out for this, as does Edwards.

At the time I was relatively ambivalent to them yet looking back, they were key players.

We took some absolute kickings that season yet we also got some decent wins, again, Barnsley standing out, and I want to say a win at home to Wednesday too?

Beginning to wonder and think, not too hard to ensure there’s no nightmares but I’m beginning to think about who was worse; Hollowhead or Law?

Quoted from RichMariner

I remember this season well because I used to help out with Mariners World (as it was then).

Seemed to interview a new player every week! Yet, as DHM says, we started with a very capable squad. We were very inconsistent to begin with, but there were glimpses of potential in there.

Sadly, we could never get our best XI out on the field at any one time. I remember Iain Anderson starting the season in great form, but he had to serve a suspension for an elbow in the Port Vale game, and I remember Carl Boyeson doing us over in that cup game at Donny when Hamilton and Cas were both sent off.

One step forward, two steps back... then that night at Hartlepool.

I don't know how true this is, because it was only hearsay (albeit from within BP) but I think Groves could only sign players on a max of £1k per week. I think our highest earners had been on £3-4k in the Champ (Coyne).

Hence, we signed some talented players who'd struggled with injuries and others who were cheaper but just not up to it. I thought Mike Edwards was the only defender who emerged with any credit that season. Ford was likeable, but Groves admitted to over-playing him the season before. Crane was, well, unreliable. And probably unfit.

It was weird how we got relegated but finished with two different strikers on 12-13 goals each. Jevons plugged the Boulding gap and we continued to do alright up front. It was just chaos at the back.

If ever there's a case study of what happens when boards can't/won't back a manager with the necessary funds to compete, that was it.

It got so messy when Law came in. Rodger had steadied the ship somewhat. That big win over Barnsley, when Jevons scored 4 (and was only playing on the left!) showed that the team still had enough talent and enough fight to survive.

Law came in, made a raft of signings and it immediately became disjoined. Everything unravelled and it was a massive panic to try and scrape together enough points to survive. I think we only won one home game under Law!

Sad to think we've never competed at that level since. Just six years previously we'd taken teams at that level apart and won twice at Wembley.

There were a few things that seemed to stand out other than the one's you mentioned...

Simon Ford and Darren Mansaram who had both had solid personal seasons the year before went into the season as two of our most valuable young player, but both ended up tailing off massively, it was the beginning of the end for Mansaram and Ford ended up released and briefly moving into Non-league before joining Kilmarnock, all this despite being 12 months down the line since Wolves were weighing up a potential bid.

Aidan Davison seemed to be (until he got injured) past his best, although he went on to have a decent 4 years with Colchester. I know he was injured but wasn't there rumours  (like Boulding) that he wanted out when Groves left? Don't think he played past February.

We pinned a lot of hopes on the sudden and late season emergence of Graham Hockless, I remember him playing more regularly towards the end as John Thorrington had come in and got crocked almost immediately, remember him curling the ball in to Rankin to win against Brentford to keep us alive going into the last day. I think there was a lot of noise over him in the summer and we expected him to be a regular, however Slade never fancied him and he ended up on loan at Leigh RMI and North Ferriby and never returned to professional football.

Lots of injured players rarely kicked a ball Parker, Soames, Rowan etc. Rowan was superb in 2001/02 a player I thought would really kick on and be a Premier League player eventually but injury destroyed his professional football career, don't think he played pro again after that season. Soames was decent in glimpses the previous season, ran like Carlos Tevez but just had no end product.

Lots of different strikers came in on loan and were hit or miss, Onuora, ten Heuvel, Rankin, Thorpe, Curier. I remember us having Onuora on loan, then signing him permanently only for us to release him 2 months later. The recruitment process was so hap hazard.

I think Jason Crowe was decent (other than Edwards as you stated) and I don't remember Tony Crane ever being that bad, just a bit erratic, full of fire, but not quite at the level to start week in week out another player who's career was eventually offset because of injury.

Seem to remember Paul Warhurst having a blinding debut, getting man of the match and then scoring an own goal in the dying minutes.

Grovesy being sacked but staying on as a player was a weird one, then ending up on loan at Scunthorpe to see out the season.

Then there was the controversy surrounding the Jarvis sponsorship  

Quoted from aldi_01

It’s interesting now, looking back at players which, for me, didn’t necessarily stand out or stick in the memory yet had a huge influence or played a big part in the side. Caldicott stands out for this, as does Edwards.

At the time I was relatively ambivalent to them yet looking back, they were key players.

We took some absolute kickings that season yet we also got some decent wins, again, Barnsley standing out, and I want to say a win at home to Wednesday too?

Beginning to wonder and think, not too hard to ensure there’s no nightmares but I’m beginning to think about who was worse; Hollowhead or Law?

Coldicott goes down as one of, if not the, most underrated and unappreciated players in the 30+ years I've been watching Town.  The one who pushes him close is Danny Butterfield.  When he played were just a better side, he helped knit things together.  He wasn't fancy, he wasn't probably that great an actual footballer (not in the purest sense of the word), but he did what he needed to and gave it to someone else.  

I think part of the under appreciation for Coldicott is who he followed.  When he signed, he did a job in the absence of Kev Donovan on the right wing.  Definitely not Coldicott's position but Donovan was injured post 97/98 and he filled in.  Complete opposite type of player and very much a steady-eddie in that role.  When the time came he then went into his preferred central midfield role where he took the place of the injured Wayne Burnett.  Again, completely different type of player.  I just don't think Coldicott ever shook off that expectation that he was going to be as visually pleasing as his predecessors.  Buckley's history with central midfielders was pretty impressive too at this point.  Cunnington (didn't sign him but definitely developed him), Cockerill and Groves were all absolute engines who dominated.  Burnett, Shakespeare and Dobbin weren't as box-to-box but technically sound players who were joyful in possession.  Coldicott wasn't either of those types, at all.  In many ways he was the mark of a turn in Buckley's approach from those triangles and attack, attack, attack to a much more measured and cautious approach.

With regards Holloway/Law...if we're talking on the pitch then Law is far worse. Worst manager I've seen. He took a team that was singing a tune (3 wins from 6 under Rodger) and absolutely copulated it up.  His recruitment was horrific, he set his teams up in the most haphazard way and I maintain he relegated us from a position of strength.  Compounded it all by standing on the touchline as we wilted away at Tranmere on his flipping phone.

Holloway took on a team that lacked any confidence, but had finally found structure thanks to Limbrick's work.  He gave them belief and with some astute signings transformed them into something genuinely exciting to watch.  That 2 month period under him before Covid was incredibly exciting and I remember leaving Valley Parade after the late Luke Hendrie equaliser thinking we were in for something special.  The following 9 months were horrific and despite training with square footballs, playing darts when everyone was isolating, giving debuts to blokes with no names on their shirts...it still wasn't as drastic a fall that Law implemented.  Of course the knock-on from Holloway's approach was felt for the 4/5 months after his departure, whereas Russell Slade was fortunate enough to have a relative clean slate in the summer of 2004.  

Law was just a really, really excrement manager.  I think Holloway had a break down, it's awful to say but he changed.  Something happened to him and he couldn't cope.

The Coldicott effect for me was evident when he wasn't playing. Agree entirely that he wasn't the eye-catching maestro of the midfield, more the 'enforcer' of sorts. When you consider what Buckleys football represented, Coldicott was almost the anti-thesis and so it didn't seem to fit. But take him out the team and you soon realised what you needed and funnily enough it was a Stacey Coldicott.

I've enjoyed reading this thread and I was an avid fan at this time but I'm terrible at remembering the level of detail that people here can. The only one thing that stands out for me from that season was how bad Law was. He always has - and I think always will - go down as the worst manager Town have had in my lifetime. Just awful.