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Tactically...wrong but right?

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chiangmaimariner
November 16, 2014, 11:53am
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Listened to the match on RH, and have read the 'Just Back' thread which pretty much describes the game I heard. My thoughts...

Our squad is well capable of scoring more than one goal against a weak side in poor form like Altrincham. Had we played 442 and
gone for the win I think we'd have prospered.
I would have rested LJL - who's got a long hard season ahead of him - and started with Arnold and Pittman up front. All sides in this
league have some sort of defence capable of handling the 'lump forward to the big striker' approach which is what our 451 too often
amounts to. (It's MORE important to play down the flanks with this shape, than it is with 442.) Think the pace and directness of
Arnold and Pittman would be more effective - but playing either (or Hannah!) alongside the Shop would have made sense FOR THIS
MATCH.

And there's the thing...we're striving for consistency, so PH has decided to settle on a shape for every match - perhaps concluding
(reasonably IMO) that players at this level aren't always capable of carrying out tactical switches from one game to another.
If he's decided that our route to the most points this season is to stick to a formation, expect a goal from the quality players we have,
and rely on our defence (which is the best in this league) to hold out if we don't get another - he may well be right.

Not the prettiest to watch, and will inevitably bring frustration when a late opposition equalizer goes in...but hopefully it will get us
out of this cr@ppy league.


If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.
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The Old Codger
November 16, 2014, 12:12pm
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If Scott Brown is/was fit for yesterday then he has to start ahead of Disley or Parslow.
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Mariner Ronnie
November 16, 2014, 12:36pm

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Quoted from The Old Codger
If Scott Brown is/was fit for yesterday then he has to start ahead of Disley or Parslow.


Parslow for me, I'm not scapegoating but we can't afford to drop disley now, he's in form and is never afraid to fight in midfield


Today we got our team back - town fan leaving Wembley may 2016
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mariner91
November 16, 2014, 1:25pm
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Quoted from Mariner Ronnie


Parslow for me, I'm not scapegoating but we can't afford to drop disley now, he's in form and is never afraid to fight in midfield


Is Disley in form?! Sounded completely anonymous yesterday.


[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EpOsQktXcAIN13k?format=jpg&name=medium[/img]
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Chrisblor
November 16, 2014, 1:28pm

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Disley was poor yesterday, so were Pell and Parslow. I'd go 4-4-2 next weekend with Clay and Brown in the middle. We created a lot more after they both came on (but still sat too deep and didn't clear our lines properly).


gary jones
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grimsby pete
November 16, 2014, 1:31pm

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Hurst is over cautious and will not try playing 2 strikers for a long time,

Because of what happened in the Oxford match.


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ginnywings
November 16, 2014, 1:52pm

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As good as LJL is at leading the line, he is not a regular goalscorer and despite his recent good run, i think we will always have to be very tight at the back to win or draw games with him as a lone striker.

We have a very good defence and a versatile midfield, but for me, the only difference between us and Barnet, is their better strike rate. They have 2 regular goalscorers and can afford to let the odd goal in as yesterday because they score more freely than us at the other end.

We either need someone alongside LJL scoring regularly, or we need to replace LJL with someone who can do his job and score more goals. Akinde at Barnet being the ideal type but finding someone like him is obviously not easy.

If the cautious Hurst continues to play 4-5-1 with a holding midfielder, then we need to find more goals somehow as defending a 1 goal lead is one mistake or piece of skill away from turning into a draw for the opposition and 2 lost points.

I feel we are nailed on for a play off spot, but if we want to catch and overtake Barnet, we need to score more goals.


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chiangmaimariner
November 16, 2014, 2:05pm
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Quoted from grimsby pete
Hurst is over cautious and will not try playing 2 strikers for a long time,

Because of what happened in the Oxford match.


You are probably right Pete - though of course Oxford are a different kettle of fish to Altrincham.


If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.
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cmackenzie4
November 16, 2014, 2:35pm

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Totally agree with ginnywings above post.


Grimsby and proud!
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Jarmo.Is.God
November 16, 2014, 2:36pm

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i dont get these claims ?

if we didn't concede in the last minute, would people still be saying brown should have played instead of disley ?

when you have won 5 league games on the bounce, why change it ?
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grimsby pete
November 16, 2014, 3:05pm

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Quoted from Jarmo.Is.God
i dont get these claims ?

if we didn't concede in the last minute, would people still be saying brown should have played instead of disley ?

when you have won 5 league games on the bounce, why change it ?


It's frustration mate, we are dropping too many points to teams near the bottom of the league,

If you are 1-0 up and keep trying to hang on instead of going for the 2nd,

You will get caught now and again.


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Mariner Ronnie
November 16, 2014, 3:20pm

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Quoted from mariner91


Is Disley in form?! Sounded completely anonymous yesterday.


I blame that on the booking he received, after that he was anonymous, another poor booking, i blame an overreacting alty player,


Today we got our team back - town fan leaving Wembley may 2016
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0ld timer
November 16, 2014, 5:29pm
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if went 442 everyone then starts moaning about long ball
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TheRonRaffertyFanClub
November 16, 2014, 5:41pm
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Probably for once PH got it right with his selection of LJL, Arnold and Neilson. The midfield seems to have improved when Brown and Clay came on.

The problem is more that the players are not keeping to the passing game and pressure that you need to do for a proper 4-3-3 so it ends up as 4-5-1. Whether they were playing to orders or not I don't know.

The other issue is LJL. When your only striker is not a massive goalscorer from open play you have to rely on someone else producing the goals. If your 3 midfield players are any good they should be able to cope with a poor side like Altrincham and push the wingers forward. I would like to think that Arnold especially could be used like Stuart Brace was, almost exclusively as an attacker.


“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.”
― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
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Tinymariner
November 16, 2014, 6:01pm

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Sorry to say this but Disley is past his best. He slows the play down and is often left wanting. He misses chances and gets turned by his man too often. Yes, he does get the odd goal (12 last season), and he is often the last man, heading off the line, however, he would be fourth on my list behind Pell, Brown and Clay. We need pace and movement in the middle. UTM


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Garth
November 16, 2014, 6:29pm

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Quoted from Tinymariner
Sorry to say this but Disley is past his best. He slows the play down and is often left wanting. He misses chances and gets turned by his man too often. Yes, he does get the odd goal (12 last season), and he is often the last man, heading off the line, however, he would be fourth on my list behind Pell, Brown and Clay. We need pace and movement in the middle. UTM


Don`t think Brown and Clay will score anything near that amount of goals,  and Pell will be gone soon now that Brown is fit and Parsely is loaned in
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barralad
November 16, 2014, 6:41pm
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Quoted from Garth


Don`t think Brown and Clay will score anything near that amount of goals,  and Pell will be gone soon now that Brown is fit and Parsely is loaned in


Interesting that 12 goals is considered the odd goal! Most teams in our league would kill for that figure. I've seen Pell twice now and he appears to lack pace and movement. Oh and for someone of his height he appears to be unable to head the ball!!


I have an inferiority complex-It's not a very good one though.
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ackomariner
November 16, 2014, 6:42pm

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Quoted from Mariner Ronnie


I blame that on the booking he received, after that he was anonymous, another poor booking, i blame an overreacting alty player,


Said the same during the game yesterday  


UTM
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DocTower
November 16, 2014, 9:03pm
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Quoted from Tinymariner
Sorry to say this but Disley is past his best. He slows the play down and is often left wanting. He misses chances and gets turned by his man too often. Yes, he does get the odd goal (12 last season), and he is often the last man, heading off the line, however, he would be fourth on my list behind Pell, Brown and Clay. We need pace and movement in the middle. UTM


I feel the same as you , however our manager like most have their favorites that rarely get dropped . We play a frustrating unattractive and not very exciting style . This will invariably affect the crowds who want to be entertained . I think we will get to the play offs , but then it's who turns up on the dsy .
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Maringer
November 16, 2014, 9:43pm
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Disley was excellent against Halifax on Tuesday so he's clearly not past it. Didn't go yesterday, but it sounded to me as though all of our midfielders were a little disappointing so not sure why Disley is (yet again) being singled out?

As for goals, note that he's been a bit-part player for much of the season, yet has scored as many as Brown and Clay (generally the first choice pairing) combined. If he were to get close to double-figures again it would be incredibly valuable for the team. Unlikely, however, as he's not generally been first choice so far.

Personally, I'm hoping to see a lot more from Brown, who started the season very brightly, but was in pretty indifferent form for the month or so before his injury. Similarly, Clay has been a bit hit and miss, possibly due to a combination of illness and injury?

Regardless, following yesterday's disappointment, let's hope we bounce back well.
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120797
November 16, 2014, 9:57pm
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Quoted from chiangmaimariner
And there's the thing...we're striving for consistency, so PH has decided to settle on a shape for every match

We've gone 4-5-1 a lot but generally disagree.
We've gone 3 at the back, 4-4-2, 4-3-3, "central quartet", even 4-2-4 !

As for this "consistency" lark, we can dress it up all we want but it boils down to "winning every game".
Soon as we don't, shock horror we're not "consistent".

Think you make some good points and also right he was "tactically wrong but right" but not for the same reasons you gave.
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devon mariner
November 17, 2014, 12:26pm

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I only listened to the game on radio.  My thoughts are that when Clay and Brown came on it gave us a bit more energy in midfield, but it appears that towards the end instead of defending high up the pitch (getting at the player with the ball) we decided to sit back and hope that 1 goal was enough.  Other games where we have played well usually we are at the opposition as soon as they get the ball.  Remember defence starts with the attackers.  IMO I would have liked at 1-0 to have changed to a proper 4-4-2 so that the opposition could not get down the sides as I feel if they just lumped it Toto and Pearson would have gobbled most up.


Forever Black and White
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