employment law - holiday entitlement...etc

Don't suppose there are any experts lurking on here are there?  

Are employers legally obliged to give full time and part time staff equal holidays pro-rata?  I'd normally ask a union representative but we don't really have a proper union at work any more.

It all depends on individual contracts.

I don't think this situation is mentioned in the contracts.  The employers have given 'all staff', both part time and full time, an extra day's holiday on a given date.  In reality, it doesn't apply to everyone, however, as some people don't normally work on that particular day of the week.  Nothing has been said about giving those people time off in lieu.

In other words, some are getting an extra day's holiday - some aren't.  Nobody is working on that day but some are getting paid for it, whilst others aren't.

Quoted from marinette

Don't suppose there are any experts lurking on here are there?  

Are employers legally obliged to give full time and part time staff equal holidays pro-rata?  I'd normally ask a union representative but we don't really have a proper union at work any more.

you are entitled by law to a MINIMUM 5.6 weeks paid holiday per calendar year, it is pro-rata for part time hours,this can included bank holidays if your employer is that tight. your employer CANNOT make you come in on a public[bank} holiday,though he is not forced by law to pay you for any bank holidays if they are additional to your statutory 5.6 weeks, any queries you have can be solved by visiting the acas website. p.s. you are entitled to union representation at your place of work on an individual basis,i.e. if you are in a union and are the only one to  do so then you still have the same rights /access to the union.  i was a shop steward for many years so any questions feel free.

Contrary to the above, your employer can make you work bank holidays. For guidance on the law about part time workers see Part time workers (Prevention of less favourable treatment) Regulations 2000. I used this law successfully against my last employer to access my pension as I was a part time worker and was being treated differently to full time workers in a redundancy / early retirement package situation. It did help that I'd been a full time Trade Union officer prior to that.

As for part time workers who don't usually work Mondays (when the likes of most non festive bank holidays fall) they should be given compensatory leave to take at some other date. If the Union set up at your workplace isn't of the best standard, speak to a steward about it, and if still not satisfied contact your full time office for advice.

Quoted from jock dock tower

Contrary to the above, your employer can make you work bank holidays. For guidance on the law about part time workers see Part time workers (Prevention of less favourable treatment) Regulations 2000. I used this law successfully against my last employer to access my pension as I was a part time worker and was being treated differently to full time workers in a redundancy / early retirement package situation. It did help that I'd been a full time Trade Union officer prior to that.

As for part time workers who don't usually work Mondays (when the likes of most non festive bank holidays fall) they should be given compensatory leave to take at some other date. If the Union set up at your workplace isn't of the best standard, speak to a steward about it, and if still not satisfied contact your full time office for advice.

without getting into a debate i think you are wrong about being made to work on a public holiday mate,unless your work contract stipulates this. the clue is in the title "public holiday"

Quoted from the ace face

without getting into a debate i think you are wrong about being made to work on a public holiday mate,unless your work contract stipulates this. the clue is in the title "public holiday"

We'll not get into a debate, because I'm right. The "clue" is in the number of days holiday allowed for under the legislation. There's absolutely nothing in any legislation about the right of anybody to have a bank holiday off.

A company can make you work every bank holiday should they choose to do so. Indeed, in my last job I did work most bank holidays, because my contract of employment said that I would work them if needed, even though the vast majority of employees didn't as I was a shift worker providing night cover 7 on and 7 off. I knew this prior to taking the job on, and it made no difference to me, other than it attracted premium time rates and a day off in lieu which suited me much better as I could use them collectively as a week's holiday.

Thanks for the replies.

The issue isn't really about bank holidays.  It's more about an EXTRA day's holiday that has been granted to 99% of employees, seemingly on the spur of the moment.  Those who would not normally be working on that particular day anyway (due to their part time contractual hours) have not been offered what Jock Dock Tower calls 'compensatory leave at a later date', so we are missing out.  In effect, we are being given less favourable treatment.

Last night, when I heard about it, I contacted someone working the same hours as me and at first she shrugged and said there was nothing we could do, but when I quoted something from a government website about 'less favourable treatment', her reaction was 'OK, let's go for it, girl!'  

The thing is, knowing what to do now?

The union situation is very difficult - our union used to be quite strong, but when our rep retired, he was replaced with someone who had very little experience.  Shortly afterwards there were massive redundancies and various things happened that made me lose faith in the union completely - both my workplace representatives and the people at the local branch office.  People being made redundant were desperately trying to contact someone at the local office to represent them in meetings - I tried to contact the union myself at the time over something relating to the redundancies that I thought might be illegal - but there was nobody there and nobody ever replied to any messages.  If our union people don't lift a finger to support those being made redundant, I very much doubt they'll be interested in a little quibble about holiday entitlement!  We've not had a single union meeting since the redundancies  apart from one, when the only item on the agenda was a discussion about whether or not we should give up on the union altogether.  

Write a letter to your Shop Steward, and advise him that you're also sending a copy of it to the local Union office because of the legal implications of the company's decision. You then need to go through your company's disciplinary procedure, so write to them as well, setting out your grievance and make sure you mention that you feel you are being "unfairly treated as a part time worker, in compliance with the Part Time Workers (Prevention of less favourable treatment) Regulations 2000. Your grievance is not about having to work a bank holiday, but the fact that you are being treated differently to the other full time employees. Best of lcuk.

Quoted from jock dock tower

Write a letter to your Shop Steward, and advise him that you're also sending a copy of it to the local Union office because of the legal implications of the company's decision. You then need to go through your company's disciplinary procedure, so write to them as well, setting out your grievance and make sure you mention that you feel you are being "unfairly treated as a part time worker, in compliance with the Part Time Workers (Prevention of less favourable treatment) Regulations 2000. Your grievance is not about having to work a bank holiday, but the fact that you are being treated differently to the other full time employees. Best of lcuk.

Thanks, Jock.  Will give it a go.

Quoted from marinette

I don't think this situation is mentioned in the contracts.  The employers have given 'all staff', both part time and full time, an extra day's holiday on a given date.  In reality, it doesn't apply to everyone, however, as some people don't normally work on that particular day of the week.  Nothing has been said about giving those people time off in lieu.
In other words, some are getting an extra day's holiday - some aren't.  Nobody is working on that day but some are getting paid for it, whilst others aren't.

Am I reading this right as meaning you are complaining about NOT getting a day in lieu for a day you WOULDN'T be working anyhow?

Yes, it happens. Part time workers should be treated exactly the same as full time workers, and the legislation is quite clear on the matter. The likes of holidays have to be pro rata those of full time employees. If a part time worker  works exactly 50% of the hours of the full time worker then their entitlement is 50% of the total holidays, regardless of when and where they're taken.

Look at it logically, if someone works part time and only works say from Tuesday lunch time to Thursday tea time to get their 50% of the working week in, they will never work on a Monday or Friday. Look at how the Bank Holidays are distributed around Mondays and Fridays  - Good Friday and Easter Monday, May Day, Whit Monday, August Bank holiday. If Xmas and the New Year also fall on these days the workers concerned will not be able to physically take the days by virtue of the fact that they simply don't work them. Another part time worker at the same workplace might only work Friday through to Tuesday and would therefore be physically able to take all the Bank Holidays off, giving them 5 extra days holiday just because of the vagiaries of the rota. That's why compensatory holidays are written into the legislation.

What Jock says.

You can also twist it around and look at it another way.

I'm quite happy NOT to be paid for that particular day, if I'm not working and my colleagues are.  But if 99% of my colleagues are getting paid on that day for NOT working, then I think I would like to be treated equally!

(I don't have any issues with bank holidays - we are all given a certain number of days holiday pro-rata, and this entitlement INCLUDES bank holidays.  So if I'm not contracted to work on bank holidays, I don't lose out - I just take the annual leave on other days instead).

Update - had a positive outcome regarding this now, without needing to involve the union.  Knowing the legal implications gave me the confidence to go for it so thank you to those who replied and especially to Jock for his expert advice.  

Great news Marinette, enjoy yer extra day's holiday!  

Quoted from marinette

Thanks for the replies.

The issue isn't really about bank holidays.  It's more about an EXTRA day's holiday that has been granted to 99% of employees, seemingly on the spur of the moment.  Those who would not normally be working on that particular day anyway (due to their part time contractual hours) have not been offered what Jock Dock Tower calls 'compensatory leave at a later date', so we are missing out.  In effect, we are being given less favourable treatment.

Last night, when I heard about it, I contacted someone working the same hours as me and at first she shrugged and said there was nothing we could do, but when I quoted something from a government website about 'less favourable treatment', her reaction was 'OK, let's go for it, girl!'  
The thing is, knowing what to do now?

The union situation is very difficult - our union used to be quite strong, but when our rep retired, he was replaced with someone who had very little experience.  Shortly afterwards there were massive redundancies and various things happened that made me lose faith in the union completely - both my workplace representatives and the people at the local branch office.  People being made redundant were desperately trying to contact someone at the local office to represent them in meetings - I tried to contact the union myself at the time over something relating to the redundancies that I thought might be illegal - but there was nobody there and nobody ever replied to any messages.  If our union people don't lift a finger to support those being made redundant, I very much doubt they'll be interested in a little quibble about holiday entitlement!  We've not had a single union meeting since the redundancies  apart from one, when the only item on the agenda was a discussion about whether or not we should give up on the union altogether.  

Why have they decided to give an extra day anyway?

Quoted from ponnyfan

Why have they decided to give an extra day anyway?

I'm not sure.