Trust seat on the board

Does anybody know what's happening with this and what discussions have been held with the board in relation to next season's budget?

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

Does anybody know what's happening with this and what discussions have been held with the board in relation to next season's budget?

Nothing and none

Fenty sits quietly giggling in the corner having conned the Truss out of 200,000 shares with promises of things that just ain't gonna happen

Surely the Trust got this in writing?

I wouldn't trust Fenty's word as far as I could throw him. Just saying like.

Quoted from Ipswin

Nothing and none

Fenty sits quietly giggling in the corner having conned the Truss out of 200,000 shares with promises of things that just ain't gonna happen

i have to agree with above it was a stupid thing to do in defence of the trust i know some of there top table didnt agree with what they did but never the less didnt make much of a noise.the trust is pointless other than organising the odd after dinner speaker

Quoted from Alfie

Surely the Trust got this in writing?

I wouldn't trust Fenty's word as far as I could throw him. Just saying like.

they where out of there depth alfie boy simple as

Quoted from pier39

they where out of there depth alfie boy simple as

what makes it worse is that the 'seat on the Board' sh!te was announced during the 'voting to throw the shares away' process - disgraceful

As someone pointed out at the time the Trust's involvemet in the decision-making and running of Grimsby Town will be limited to making the tea and sharpening the pencils at Board meetings

Quoted from Ipswin

what makes it worse is that the 'seat on the Board' sh!te was announced during the 'voting to throw the shares away' process - disgraceful

As someone pointed out at the time the Trust's involvemet in the decision-making and running of Grimsby Town will be limited to making the tea and sharpening the pencils at Board meetings

i think the trust should drive the fenty brothers to away games and provide tea and biscuits on the way

I didn't post this to start the usual pointless Trust bashing. Was genuinely wondering if any negotiations are ongoing etc?

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

I didn't post this to start the usual pointless Trust bashing. Was genuinely wondering if any negotiations are ongoing etc?

yes you did

Fenty's sharp practice regarding the trust and shares nonsense can be summed up like this. . . .

Playing hardball with a bunch of soft-(ocks

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

I didn't post this to start the usual pointless Trust bashing. Was genuinely wondering if any negotiations are ongoing etc?

Yes but you kinda got your answer. . . . . nothing will happen with regard to the trust having a place on the board. . . . not now, not ever. . . . . you see there is this guy called John Fenty. . . . . .

I asked this question on April 10th and got an answer from a Trust board member.

"Still coming to an agreement. where one is achieved by targets being met."

From that reply, I assumed talks were ongoing, but may be wrong.

There is a Trust section of the forum for wwuestions such as this.

[url]http://www.thefishy.co.uk/cgi-bin/forum/Blah.pl?b-gtst/[/url]

Surely the budget will be whatever Fenty wants it to be as he is a) back in control and b) funding it.

Quoted from Biccys

I asked this question on April 10th and got an answer from a Trust board member.

"Still coming to an agreement. where one is achieved by targets being met."

From that reply, I assumed talks were ongoing, but may be wrong.

There is a Trust section of the forum for wwuestions such as this.

[url]http://www.thefishy.co.uk/cgi-bin/forum/Blah.pl?b-gtst/[/url]

Trying to come to an agreement when you have thrown away your best (only) bargaining chip is not the best strategy really!!

Quoted from Coley Surfer

Surely the budget will be whatever Fenty wants it to be as he is a) back in control and b) funding it.

What? We aren't going to get any ticket sales next season?  No sponsorship? No money from the sale of Bennet? No money from the likely sale of Hearn?

What precisely do you mean 'Fenty is funding it'

Half of your bargaining chip RBOH, get it right....

Quoted from Biccys

Half of your bargaining chip RBOH, get it right....

The half that JF was interested in!

Quoted from 1054

What? We aren't going to get any ticket sales next season?  No sponsorship? No money from the sale of Bennet? No money from the likely sale of Hearn?

What precisely do you mean 'Fenty is funding it'

Oh I am sorry but every time I come on here people keep telling me its John Fentys money that keeps the club afloat. Are you suggesting that we may run at a profit? Does control being back on the boardroom not mean that John Fenty will be setting the budget?

We don't know when the money from the Bennett transfer will arrive. We don't know what sort of deal will be struck for Hearn, we don't know how many season tickets we are going to sell, we don't know how many match tickets we are going to sell.

So we'll work out exactly how much money we can earn from all those 'known' factors and then Mr. Fenty will say OK lets make the budget £xxxxxxxx because I can only afford to lend the club £xxxxxxxx therefore he is setting the budget and covering the shortfall by covering the shortfall he is in effect funding the club.

Quoted from Biccys

"Still coming to an agreement. where one is achieved by targets being met."

From that reply, I assumed talks were ongoing, but may be wrong.

There is a Trust section of the forum for wwuestions such as this.

I don't really understand what that means. Anybody else? I didn't post it on the Trust board as so far as I can see, nobody goes on there and people shouldn't forget about this.

Quoted from Coley Surfer

Oh I am sorry but every time I come on here people keep telling me its John Fentys money that keeps the club afloat. Are you suggesting that we may run at a profit? Does control being back on the boardroom not mean that John Fenty will be setting the budget?

We don't know when the money from the Bennett transfer will arrive. We don't know what sort of deal will be struck for Hearn, we don't know how many season tickets we are going to sell, we don't know how many match tickets we are going to sell.

So we'll work out exactly how much money we can earn from all those 'known' factors and then Mr. Fenty will say OK lets make the budget £xxxxxxxx because I can only afford to lend the club £xxxxxxxx therefore he is setting the budget and covering the shortfall by covering the shortfall he is in effect funding the club.

I agree with this post and also fed up of all the Fenty bashing on here,

If it was not for his money we would be in an even worse position than we are now.

Quoted from grimsby pete

I agree with this post and also fed up of all the Fenty bashing on here,

If it was not for his money we would be in an even worse position than we are now.

Really?

Quoted from grimsby pete

If it was not for his money we would be in an even worse position than we are now.

I'm sorry Pete but how can you possibly know that? In three and a bit months we're going to start our third season in the Conference. We are massively in debt and more so year on year. Maybe without his money we would have gone out of business five years ago but maybe without his money the club would have been run better and we'd be a football league side operating with some sort of long-term plan that doesn't appear to lead slowly and inevitably towards bankruptcy.

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

I'm sorry Pete but how can you possibly know that? In three and a bit months we're going to start our third season in the Conference. We are massively in debt and more so year on year. Maybe without his money we would have gone out of business five years ago but maybe without his money the club would have been run better and we'd be a football league side operating with some sort of long-term plan that doesn't appear to lead slowly and inevitably towards bankruptcy.

Well I think we will soon find out because I am sure Fenty has had enough and is just waiting for anybody to take over the club,

BUT

Nobody seems interested in buying him out.

That's been the case for about 3 years Pete.....

Fenty could walk away tomorrow and we could go pop - that doesn't mean we'd have been worse off without his money for the past few years does it? The fact we're a conference squad with £2.5million of debts and rising hardly makes us the most attractive proposition does it?

No one wants to buy it because they would have to pay off the debts incurred by fenty's appaling management.

I am not privy to the figures but 18 quid x 3500 fans x 23 home games = 1,449,000  chip in a bit of sponsorship, money from player sales, catering and merchandise, even a cup run. . . . where is the shortfall on a 900k playing budget?

Am i missing something?

Quoted from grimsby pete

I agree with this post and also fed up of all the Fenty bashing on here,

If it was not for his money we would be in an even worse position than we are now.

I was just pointing out the reality of the situation. I was not defending Fenty. My point is that he will set the budget, which in turn will increase the clubs monetary indebtedness to him.

Personally I think his money has helped in the continued demise of the club.

Quoted from grimsby pete

I agree with this post and also fed up of all the Fenty bashing on here,

If it was not for his money we would be in an even worse position than we are now.

Wow.

Just wow.

Quoted from 1054

No one wants to buy it because they would have to pay off the debts incurred by fenty's appaling management.

I am not privy to the figures but 18 quid x 3500 fans x 23 home games = 1,449,000  chip in a bit of sponsorship, money from player sales, catering and merchandise, even a cup run. . . . where is the shortfall on a 900k playing budget?

Am i missing something?

Yes your f cking mind.

Quoted from 1054

No one wants to buy it because they would have to pay off the debts incurred by fenty's appaling management.

I am not privy to the figures but 18 quid x 3500 fans x 23 home games = 1,449,000  chip in a bit of sponsorship, money from player sales, catering and merchandise, even a cup run. . . . where is the shortfall on a 900k playing budget?
Am i missing something?

Where do you start with this one

Firstly the club pay I believe about 20% of all income to the tax man so your 1,449.000 is now only 1,159,200 then there are none playing staff full time like grounds man, Stadium manager, Office staff, Accountant, Chief Exec, Commercial manager, Press officer and a few others I have probably forgotten. If they all earn 20k each shall we say then that’s another 140k  to 200k per year,

Next there is the staff on match day, Stewards, Bar staff, and all the other paid persons around the ground which must be somewhere between 70 and 100 at a minimum £20 each so that’s approximately £2000 per game x 23 = 46k

Then there are rates, Electric and water bills for the day to day running of the stadium plus floodlights on a match day . Phone and IT costs for running a small business. And the maintenance costs for looking after a 100 year old ground.

Police and ambulance costs for match days which vary depending on what category the match is; I bet police don’t come cheap.

Then there are rent and rates and utility bills for the training ground,

Then there are advertising and printing costs for match days like programs, tickets, vouchers and the likes.

I would also think that the Conference league and FA must take some money for allowing us to be in the league although I may be wrong,

On top of all this I would think there are 101 more hidden expenses I have not thought about so I can see why we make a whacking great loss every year and why JF has to prop the club up.

Yes we probably could live within our means but our playing budget would be more like 400k tops, Part time staff, no training ground and a lifetime in this league.

So I say don’t bite the hand that feeds you or you may get what allot of you on here wish for, A part time team with no hope of ever getting out this shitty league and in the end going pop.

Quoted from Rob_in_Grimsby

So I say don’t bite the hand that feeds you or you may get what allot of you on here wish for, A part time team with no hope of ever getting out this shitty league and in the end going pop.

Out of interest Rob, where do you see it ending for us if we continue to spend approximately £500k to £1million more than we bring in every year? I don't understand how living within our means equals going pop in the end but seemingly increasing our debts doesn't.

That’s a hard one to answer TBH. Go bust and start again or carry on getting further in to JF’s debt  As it stands we have someone willing to put money who accepts that he won’t get it back without football fortune. He has stated he would not call the loans in if he could although as its already been publicised  the club rules are done so that can not be done anyway then the debt is only a problem if we went bust.

TBH I would rather risk another season and a possibility of breaking even than going bust and  a  possible 2 league demotion,  

If we where lucky enough to get a new ground which generated none football income to bridge the gap then the debts may decrease rather than increase,
After 10 years of JF putting money in every year to prop the club up why do you feel he should go just because we may for the first time in along time break even.

Quoted from Rob_in_Grimsby

That’s a hard one to answer TBH. Go bust and start again or carry on getting further in to JF’s debt  As it stands we have someone willing to put money who accepts that he won’t get it back without football fortune. He has stated he would not call the loans in if he could although as its already been publicised  the club rules are done so that can not be done anyway then the debt is only a problem if we went bust.

TBH I would rather risk another season and a possibility of breaking even than going bust and  a  possible 2 league demotion,  

If we where lucky enough to get a new ground which generated none football income to bridge the gap then the debts may decrease rather than increase,
After 10 years of JF putting money in every year to prop the club up why do you feel he should go just because we may for the first time in along time break even.

I don't particularly feel strongly that he should go just that the club has to start making real efforts to operate closer to a break-even point. John Fenty has only pledged another year of funding so if we start signing players to contracts beyond that and he walks away at the end of next season then we will be in massive trouble. I know there aren't millionaires out their waiting to plough cash in and I know he isn't making money out of the club - quite the opposite.

It is possible to be competitive in this division whilst not making huge losses - that should be our ambition at the moment. I can see a lot of clubs going out of business in the next 10 years and at present I think there's a strong possiblity one of them will be us.

Well we all know we haven't got much money

Quoted from Ipswin

Nothing and none

Fenty sits quietly giggling in the corner having conned the Truss out of 200,000 shares with promises of things that just ain't gonna happen

What do you mean he promises things that just don’t happen what about the New Stadiu..ohhh hang on a mo.

Quoted from Ipswin

Nothing and none

Fenty sits quietly giggling in the corner having conned the Truss out of 200,000 shares with promises of things that just ain't gonna happen

What do you mean he promises things that just don’t happen what about the New Stadiu..ohhh hang on a mo.

Quoted from Rob_in_Grimsby

That’s a hard one to answer TBH. Go bust and start again or carry on getting further in to JF’s debt  As it stands we have someone willing to put money who accepts that he won’t get it back without football fortune. He has stated he would not call the loans in if he could although as its already been publicised  the club rules are done so that can not be done anyway then the debt is only a problem if we went bust.

TBH I would rather risk another season and a possibility of breaking even than going bust and  a  possible 2 league demotion,  

If we where lucky enough to get a new ground which generated none football income to bridge the gap then the debts may decrease rather than increase,
After 10 years of JF putting money in every year to prop the club up why do you feel he should go just because we may for the first time in along time break even.

I agree partially with your comments Rob but we had someone else who was interested in taking the club forward but somehow it went pair shaped and became a bitter split no matter how one side tried to paint it.  We have racked up debts because of financial mismanagement.

ITV digital wasn't JF's fault and he cleverly negotiated that the tax be paid back over several years in full.  At the same time Ramsden wanted his cash back or was going to put the club under and to his credit JF paid him and then arranged payments back in installments over several seasons, fair enough.

My gripe is that JF could have paid the taxman back in full whilst also paying back Ramsden, then paid himself back over several seasons.  The financial burden has come about because we were paying both the taxman and JF back which meant he had to loan the club money for a half decent squad.  His and the boards appointments didn't work out so he lent the club more money to try and get us out of the hole that developed because of bad management.

I believe that if he had taken this approach there wouldn't have been the spat between JF and MP and we would still be a league club.  I said the season before we went down to the conference that JF was gambling with the clubs future.  As it pans out he has loaned the club more now because of that bad management.  I also said at the time that JF could be one of the best chairman we have ever had if he got it right.

If the trust were going to get a seat on the board then it would have happened soon after the 200K worth of shares and voting rights were given away in good faith.

"If the trust were going to get a seat on the board then it would have happened soon after the 200K worth of shares and voting rights were given away in good faith."

You've hit the nail on the head there Marinerz. Although the Trust Board would probably argue that the seat at Board meetings wasn't part of the deal they proposed to members so no loss there....

I just really wish that more people of a similar mind (especially non-exiles) would join the Trust and make it adopt a stronger line.

Quoted from Rob_in_Grimsby

Where do you start with this one

Firstly the club pay I believe about 20% of all income to the tax man so your 1,449.000 is now only 1,159,200 then there are none playing staff full time like grounds man, Stadium manager, Office staff, Accountant, Chief Exec, Commercial manager, Press officer and a few others I have probably forgotten. If they all earn 20k each shall we say then that’s another 140k  to 200k per year,

Next there is the staff on match day, Stewards, Bar staff, and all the other paid persons around the ground which must be somewhere between 70 and 100 at a minimum £20 each so that’s approximately £2000 per game x 23 = 46k

Then there are rates, Electric and water bills for the day to day running of the stadium plus floodlights on a match day . Phone and IT costs for running a small business. And the maintenance costs for looking after a 100 year old ground.

Police and ambulance costs for match days which vary depending on what category the match is; I bet police don’t come cheap.

Then there are rent and rates and utility bills for the training ground,

Then there are advertising and printing costs for match days like programs, tickets, vouchers and the likes.

I would also think that the Conference league and FA must take some money for allowing us to be in the league although I may be wrong,

On top of all this I would think there are 101 more hidden expenses I have not thought about so I can see why we make a whacking great loss every year and why JF has to prop the club up.

Yes we probably could live within our means but our playing budget would be more like 400k tops, Part time staff, no training ground and a lifetime in this league.

So I say don’t bite the hand that feeds you or you may get what allot of you on here wish for, A part time team with no hope of ever getting out this shitty league and in the end going pop.

Surely the only money going to the tax man will come out of gross wages (so already accounted for in the wage bill you mentioned, and Employer's NI Contributions (which will probably average 10% max). There will be no corporation tax because we don't make any profits.

And if living within our means entails part-time football then that's the way it should be.

Quoted from grimsby pete

Well I think we will soon find out because I am sure Fenty has had enough and is just waiting for anybody to take over the club,

BUT

Nobody seems interested in buying him out.

Because they'd have to pay off the debts he's built up as well as buy a controlling interest in shares.

Quoted from TWAreaTownSupporter

"If the trust were going to get a seat on the board then it would have happened soon after the 200K worth of shares and voting rights were given away in good faith."

You've hit the nail on the head there Marinerz. Although the Trust Board would probably argue that the seat at Board meetings wasn't part of the deal they proposed to members so no loss there....

I just really wish that more people of a similar mind (especially non-exiles) would join the Trust and make it adopt a stronger line.

The Trust need to be representative of a wider section of the fan base before getting a seat on the board, and the only way they can do that is if people join. With a more diverse range of opinions and skills the Trust can achieve much and benefit the club and the wider community

[quote=720]

The Trust need to be representative of a wider section of the fan base before getting a seat on the board, /quote]

Is that what the Trust board have been told Wrawby?

Quoted from TWAreaTownSupporter

Surely the only money going to the tax man will come out of gross wages (so already accounted for in the wage bill you mentioned, and Employer's NI Contributions (which will probably average 10% max). There will be no corporation tax because we don't make any profits.

And if living within our means entails part-time football then that's the way it should be.

what about VAT 20%

Quoted from Squarkus

what about VAT 20%

thanks for your input john
Employers NI works out at about 12.5% of the wage being paid plus you then have to add on 12.2% for the cost of their holiday pay.
Someone being paid £10 per hour actually costs their employer about £12.50 - £12.60 per hour to employ

If John Bishop was chairman, we could have a go at him and the thread title could be 'Bishop bashing!'

This humour would help drive away the false optimism which sweeps over us each time a failed season ends.

Interesting to read these posts and look at some of the language being used. There are many who suggest that if JF had not put his money in we would be in a worse position, and assign all manner of agency to other aspects and mythical elements that have caused our demise on so many levels. In the same way the global economic crisis has been re-presented somehow as the fault of the public sector and not the financial and banking system, so the position of the club is being blamed on all manner of things (fans, players, trust, local council etc.) except for the management and behaviour of those responsible, which in the cold light of day is there for everyone to see. Interestingly football, like politics, is one of the few sectors where you need little background in the field into which you enter but can still get the top job. In football, this can be bought if you have a general positive financial background even if you have absolutely no experience in that field because money talks, and let’s face it, fans listen, so clubs become play things and we then see all manner of immoral behaviour and actions. Greed has saturated the game and clubs have become only commodities in a financial sense. I'd hope - and still do - that the Trust and the donation from MP might be the beginnings of the club being something more than just a financial commodity and something that could ensure all fans and the local community coalesced around. However, the gerrymandering and positioning that went on so readily demonstrated there was little chance of this. I am positive I am in a very small minority but I'd rather see an honestly run club living within its means and building collectively and sustainably than one that is/has been managed on individual whim and is down on its knees financially, practically and morally. Be careful what we wish for? Be more wary of what we have and where we are might be more apt.

Oh how I get sick of hearing that the financial crisis was caused solely by the "bankers".  Yes they enjoyed many years of mis-management and edgey practices, but I didn't see the average person saying, please don't lend me all that money, so I can go out and buy a house at a stupid price, or borrow money to have a massive wedding, new car etc...etc.

Blame the bankers, but don't forget the actions of many of their customers too.

Quoted from Fishbone

Interesting to read these posts and look at some of the language being used. There are many who suggest that if JF had not put his money in we would be in a worse position, and assign all manner of agency to other aspects and mythical elements that have caused our demise on so many levels. In the same way the global economic crisis has been re-presented somehow as the fault of the public sector and not the financial and banking system, so the position of the club is being blamed on all manner of things (fans, players, trust, local council etc.) except for the management and behaviour of those responsible, which in the cold light of day is there for everyone to see. Interestingly football, like politics, is one of the few sectors where you need little background in the field into which you enter but can still get the top job. In football, this can be bought if you have a general positive financial background even if you have absolutely no experience in that field because money talks, and let’s face it, fans listen, so clubs become play things and we then see all manner of immoral behaviour and actions. Greed has saturated the game and clubs have become only commodities in a financial sense. I'd hope - and still do - that the Trust and the donation from MP might be the beginnings of the club being something more than just a financial commodity and something that could ensure all fans and the local community coalesced around. However, the gerrymandering and positioning that went on so readily demonstrated there was little chance of this. I am positive I am in a very small minority but I'd rather see an honestly run club living within its means and building collectively and sustainably than one that is/has been managed on individual whim and is down on its knees financially, practically and morally. Be careful what we wish for? Be more wary of what we have and where we are might be more apt.

Excellent post fishbone.

Quoted from maxfox44

Oh how I get sick of hearing that the financial crisis was caused solely by the "bankers".  Yes they enjoyed many years of mis-management and edgey practices, but I didn't see the average person saying, please don't lend me all that money, so I can go out and buy a house at a stupid price, or borrow money to have a massive wedding, new car etc...etc.

Blame the bankers, but don't forget the actions of many of their customers too.

The bankers facilitated the borrowing and in some cases far more than what the people asking for the loans could pay back.  When I went for a mortgage in 98 you had to prove what you could pay back after all your deductions, petrol, phone, gas, elect, food, etc.  We then went through a period were you could borrow and none of those things I listed were taken in to account.  For years the bank kept asking me if I wanted to increase my over draft and at one point increased it with out my authorisation.  Yes people are part to blame but you give some an inch and they'll take a yard, banks know this and so facilitated it to stop people changing banks, they all did it.

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

[quote=720]

The Trust need to be representative of a wider section of the fan base before getting a seat on the board, /quote]

Is that what the Trust board have been told Wrawby?

No just my opinion I'm afraid

Quoted from Wrawby_Mariner

No just my opinion I'm afraid

That's okay, just wanted to clarify. If a board place was offered at present would you favour turning it down? Do you know if any discussions are ongoing or has it been left for the meantime?

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

[quote=720]

The Trust need to be representative of a wider section of the fan base before getting a seat on the board, /quote]

Is that what the Trust board have been told Wrawby?

No surprises you thought that's what they had been told because Wrawby's comment sounds like it's right out the book of JF spin...

Quoted from voice of reason

[/b]

No surprises you thought that's what they had been told because Wrawby's comment sounds like it's right out the book of JF spin...

It did have a bit of a ring to it!

The seat on the board was always a long term aim and I was surprised it was thrown about as soon as it was. The gtfc board are clearly open to trust representation on the board, but in my opinion the trust would need to bring something to the table so to speak. There Are financial obligations a board member would have to adhere to as written in the articles of association of the club .. I think it's a case of understanding the financial and legal implications of it. I could be wrong though.

Quoted from Wrawby_Mariner

The seat on the board was always a long term aim and I was surprised it was thrown about as soon as it was. The gtfc board are clearly open to trust representation on the board, but in my opinion the trust would need to bring something to the table so to speak. There Are financial obligations a board member would have to adhere to as written in the articles of association of the club .. I think it's a case of understanding the financial and legal implications of it. I could be wrong though.

I hope you are wrong because if the implications of this have not been understood by now, then I doubt they ever will...

I feel sorry for the Trust on this because JF has made you lot look a little bit silly if you don't take the seat after he publicly offered it to you...

Quoted from voice of reason

I hope you are wrong because if the implications of this have not been understood by now, then I doubt they ever will...

I feel sorry for the Trust on this because JF has made you lot look a little bit silly if you don't take the seat after he publicly offered it to you...

Talks are ongoing we know what the implications are but it's making them work for the benefit of gtfc .. Sorry if I was unclear

What are those implications wrawbz?

Quoted from 1054

No one wants to buy it because they would have to pay off the debts incurred by fenty's appaling management.

I am not privy to the figures but 18 quid x 3500 fans x 23 home games = 1,449,000  chip in a bit of sponsorship, money from player sales, catering and merchandise, even a cup run. . . . where is the shortfall on a 900k playing budget?

Am i missing something?

I'd be very surprised if more than 500 fans were paying £18 every game.

Quoted from Les Brechin

I'd be very surprised if more than 500 fans were paying £18 every game.

Around 1500 had already paid their admission though. I thought the same thing but then relaised the STH were factored in to the figures...!

Quoted from Biccys

Around 1500 had already paid their admission though. I thought the same thing but then relaised the STH were factored in to the figures...!

Plus the whole of the Pontoon and Lower Findus along with early bird tickets, kids and concessions, I reckon even 500 is a generous estimate of the number of people paying £18 a game, but why let the facts get in the way of a bit of Fenty bashing eh.

Quoted from Wrawby_Mariner

The seat on the board was always a long term aim and I was surprised it was thrown about as soon as it was. The gtfc board are clearly open to trust representation on the board, but in my opinion the trust would need to bring something to the table so to speak. There Are financial obligations a board member would have to adhere to as written in the articles of association of the club .. I think it's a case of understanding the financial and legal implications of it. I could be wrong though.

How's about 200,000 shares?

I have just been informed that we have more non-playing staff than dirty, evil Leeds United.
Can anyone associated with GTFC (or not!) confirm the amount of non-playing staff we employ.

Quoted from Alfie

How's about 200,000 shares?

Apart from mr fenty nobody else on the club board has significant shares so share holding means little . I was talking more about what the trust can offer in terms of investment to the club ..  

Quoted from STB

I have just been informed that we have more non-playing staff than dirty, evil Leeds United.
Can anyone associated with GTFC (or not!) confirm the amount of non-playing staff we employ.

There's been quite a few on the pitch in recent seasons.

Quoted from STB

I have just been informed that we have more non-playing staff than dirty, evil Leeds United.
Can anyone associated with GTFC (or not!) confirm the amount of non-playing staff we employ.

Salt and vinegar on your chip sir?

Fascinating thread.

Some really good questions/ideas (even from RBOH IMO !)
Got stacks of opinions but don't want to bore people to death or get their back up.  

Quoted from Wrawby_Mariner

The Trust need to be representative of a wider section of the fan base before getting a seat on the board, and the only way they can do that is if people join.

Wrawbs quick question if I may ?
What do you mean "wider section of the fan base" ?

Do you simply mean boost trust membership numbers off the charts to make it more representative ?
Or do you mean targetting certain "types" of people to help make up the trust board ?

I'm pretty sure when I read the rules for GTST it talked about a supposedly ideal sceario where the trust board comprised of a number of different people to represent other different groups e.g. players rep, disable persons rep, young person rep etc.

So was that what you meant or did you just mean boost membership numbers ?

Just on the subject, should some of those older documents that were available on gtst.net (now emptied) be available on the new site ?
I can see a "board membership policy" document on the new site which refers to the rules but not the rules themselves.
Not a criticism, just thought I'd mention it...

Also what's all that 0/3, 0/2 stuff you've got in the documents section about ?
See the bigger number matches the number of available documents but tbh it looks like it could do with a re-jig.
Just trying to help...  

Quoted from STB

I have just been informed that we have more non-playing staff than dirty, evil Leeds United.
Can anyone associated with GTFC (or not!) confirm the amount of non-playing staff we employ.

i doubt that very much but we defo have more staff than them scunts down the rd

Quoted from Wrawby_Mariner

Apart from mr fenty nobody else on the club board has significant shares so share holding means little

if i could find a 'rolls eyes' smiley i would use it here

Quoted from STB

I have just been informed that we have more non-playing staff than dirty, evil Leeds United.
Can anyone associated with GTFC (or not!) confirm the amount of non-playing staff we employ.

Without knowing the actual figures I would seriously doubt that statement. The ground maintenance and administration staff alone would be significantly higher than ours. The matchday staff required to handle home crowds of 25,000 approx would be at least 3 times higher than ours.

No, i recall seeing the document about numbers of non playing staff and we had way more than many big clubs. . . Will try and find it! i think we were in league 2 at the time

Quoted from Squarkus

what about VAT 20%

I thought VAT was only for life's luxuaries not essentials!  

Good point accepted though.

Quoted from maxfox44

Oh how I get sick of hearing that the financial crisis was caused solely by the "bankers".  Yes they enjoyed many years of mis-management and edgey practices, but I didn't see the average person saying, please don't lend me all that money, so I can go out and buy a house at a stupid price, or borrow money to have a massive wedding, new car etc...etc.

Blame the bankers, but don't forget the actions of many of their customers too.

Good point. I'm generally all for a bit of banker bashing and being of a general leftish viewpoint I think this all proves the liability of the free market. But you're right. Not many people complained about the fact they were able to acquire loads of stuff and go on more holidays than ever before. Including me. We're all to some extent culpable.


Some more than others though.

Quoted from Wrawby_Mariner

The seat on the board was always a long term aim and (1) I was surprised it was thrown about as soon as it was. The gtfc board are clearly open to trust representation on the board, but in (2) my opinion the trust would need to bring something to the table so to speak. There Are financial obligations a board member would have to adhere to (3) as written in the articles of association of the club .. I think it's a case of understanding the financial and legal implications of it. I(4)  could be wrong though.

(1) You've got John Fenty to thank for that. Let's face it, you were done over good and proper.

(2) You mean other than being a major shareholder (at least before the naive cave in) and representing the biggest income stream for the club, i.e. the supporters.

(3) You could have used the Trust's windfall shareholding to negotiate a re-write of this though.

(4) You are not wrong. The Trust board and most of the members clearly don't fully understand. That is the problem. We would be better off with a mass membership of people who don't understand the issues but with a simple mistrust of those in control. Hell, you're making me seem like an old school class warrior.

Quoted from Wrawby_Mariner

The Trust need to be representative of a wider section of the fan base before getting a seat on the board, and the only way they can do that is if people join. With a more diverse range of opinions and skills the Trust can achieve much and benefit the club and the wider community

I agree with you on this, but like the last Trust Board, it's petering out into being just another fund raising club. There seems to be lots of efforts to raise money for worthy causes but little activity to increase the membership. To make the effort to join people need to see a cause worth pursuing. "Third Way" strategies aren't going to cut the mustard. Being "sensible" and rolling over when John Fenty says boo isn't going to help either.

You need to be in people's faces before every game. Literally. Putting the case across as to why supporters' views should be heard, and what the Trust will do to change things radically if enough people joined.

Better to take a risk and be a radical failure standing your ground than to be a meek and mild failure. And if you don't have any ground to stand then what's the point.

Quoted from forza ivano

thanks for your input john
Employers NI works out at about 12.5% of the wage being paid plus you then have to add on 12.2% for the cost of their holiday pay.
Someone being paid £10 per hour actually costs their employer about £12.50 - £12.60 per hour to employ

To be a little more correct its 13.8% above a threshold of about £107 a week. So the ENIC bill on the part-time employees will be negligible.  For all players the first £5.5k p.a. is ENIC free so for someone earning £30k p.a. the ENIC is c.£3450 or 11.5%.

(Remind me to not hire contractors through you Forza as you're over-recovering ENIC!   )

Quoted from TWAreaTownSupporter

I agree with you on this, but like the last Trust Board, it's petering out into being just another fund raising club. There seems to be lots of efforts to raise money for worthy causes but little activity to increase the membership. To make the effort to join people need to see a cause worth pursuing.

Totally understand (and to a largish extent agree) but look at it the other way...

If everyone joined there might be the opportunity for people to influence THEIR CAUSE or say what else it could be ?
And tbf didn't the trust say right from the start that if you want to make a difference and have your say you should join ?

Who knows what the effect would be if 3000 signed up tomorrow. (at least we'd be slightly better off and stronger though)

My point is, leadership doesn't always have to come from someone else...

And just to clear I have absolutely no aspirations of "rallying people to victory" or anything like that.
Just a bit bored of hearing people moan on the sidelines.

Lone gone was the opportunity to plan it all out together and leap in. (if ever there was one ?)
If other people want to see change maybe they're gonna have to jump on board and take it from there.
Unless they e.g. form their own supporters group or whatever but whilst this is gonna sound harsh, I get the impression all a lot of people want to do (not really talking about you here but if the cap fits...) is to say what others shouldn't be doing but do nothing themselves.

Personally I can't really do anything practical to help(well I maybe could at a huge push but I'm buggered if I'm spending ages of my own time for the sake of something I don't really think is working very well) but at least I try to be supportive of others who are at least trying to SOME extent (by joining the trust, buying tickets. DVD's etc).

Solution for everyone is simple - get on board first, talk ideas later...

Either that or form your own line Supporters group or something, but I've already tried and no-ones really bothered so let's see someone else pick up the mantle and show some leadership for a change !

Quoted from 1600

And just to clear I have absolutely no aspirations of "rallying people to victory" or anything like that.
Just a bit bored of hearing people moan on the sidelines.

Lone gone was the opportunity to plan it all out together and leap in. (if ever there was one ?)
If other people want to see change maybe they're gonna have to jump on board and take it from there.
Unless they e.g. form their own supporters group or whatever but whilst this is gonna sound harsh, I get the impression all a lot of people want to do (not really talking about you here but if the cap fits...) is to say what others shouldn't be doing but do nothing themselves.

Personally I can't really do anything practical to help(well I maybe could at a huge push but I'm buggered if I'm spending ages of my own time for the sake of something I don't really think is working very well) but at least I try to be supportive of others who are at least trying to SOME extent (by joining the trust, buying tickets. DVD's etc).

Solution for everyone is simple - get on board first, talk ideas later...

Either that or form your own line Supporters group or something, but I've already tried and no-ones really bothered so let's see someone else pick up the mantle and show some leadership for a change !

i read your posts but normally after the first line they drag me under

Quoted from Wrawby_Mariner

The seat on the board was always a long term aim and I was surprised it was thrown about as soon as it was. The gtfc board are clearly open to trust representation on the board, but in my opinion the trust would need to bring something to the table so to speak. There Are financial obligations a board member would have to adhere to as written in the articles of association of the club .. I think it's a case of understanding the financial and legal implications of it. I could be wrong though.

PF didn't have any cash and only had £500 worth of shares, he was a director for ages.  If the Trust don't get a seat in the boardroom by the end of the season the only conclusion that the majority will come to is that JF has turned the trust over, given it to them up the wrong one and didn't have the god damn decency to give them a reach round.

Quoted from TWAreaTownSupporter

To be a little more correct its 13.8% above a threshold of about £107 a week. So the ENIC bill on the part-time employees will be negligible.  For all players the first £5.5k p.a. is ENIC free so for someone earning £30k p.a. the ENIC is c.£3450 or 11.5%.

(Remind me to not hire contractors through you Forza as you're over-recovering ENIC!   )

Got to try and sneak in a little extra 'bunce' somewhere along the line!!

Quoted from Marinerz93

JF has turned the trust over, given it to them up the wrong one and didn't have the god damn decency to give them a reach round.

Classic - only thing worth reading on the whole boring thread.

Quoted from Marinerz93

PF didn't have any cash and only had £500 worth of shares, he was a director for ages.  If the Trust don't get a seat in the boardroom by the end of the season the only conclusion that the majority will come to is that JF has turned the trust over, given it to them up the wrong one and didn't have the god damn decency to give them a reach round.

I was under the impression that to be on the Board you had to give a cash assurity but I don't know how much. PF was not only on the Board for a long time he was also Chairman from October 1987 to December 1994 and May 2001 to July 2004. During his tenures as Chairman he saw two promotions , 3 relegations and put bu**er all money into the club. He never seemed to get as much criticism as JF who has had 1 relegation and bankrolled the club .

Fenty became majority shareholder when we were in the championship.  He has not bankrolled the club,  upwards of £1 million pounds a season has come from gate receipts! M'pet!

Quoted from rancido

I was under the impression that to be on the Board you had to give a cash assurity but I don't know how much. PF was not only on the Board for a long time he was also Chairman from October 1987 to December 1994 and May 2001 to July 2004. During his tenures as Chairman he saw two promotions , 3 relegations and put bu**er all money into the club. He never seemed to get as much criticism as JF who has had 1 relegation and bankrolled the club .

If I can remember rightly it was £50k interest free loan to the club and £500 worth of shares to be a director.  How PF stayed in the boardroom was more than likely down to a vote of which Chapman and Elsom said 'yes John' like they normally do.  You can look at it as bank rolling the club, I look at it as funding his trigger finger, poor decisions and wanton control.  His bankrolling wouldn't all be down to him if (a) he hadn't put the trust in a  position were they give away £200K worth of shares and voting rights and (b) played better with the other multi-millionaire who put £1M into the club without batting an eye lid or on the premise that it had to be paid back via a benign loan.

[quote=1054]Fenty became majority shareholder when we were in the championship.  He has not bankrolled the club,  upwards of £1 million pounds a season has come from gate receipts! M'pet![/quote]


Getting familiar aren't you calling me your pet ?

Quoted from 1600

Totally understand (and to a largish extent agree) but look at it the other way...

If everyone joined there might be the opportunity for people to influence THEIR CAUSE or say what else it could be ?
And tbf didn't the trust say right from the start that if you want to make a difference and have your say you should join ?

Who knows what the effect would be if 3000 signed up tomorrow. (at least we'd be slightly better off and stronger though)

My point is, leadership doesn't always have to come from someone else...

I don't see a sudden rush to join the Trust, in fact, given the decision by the existing members (based on a recommendation from the Trust Board) to give away 200,000 shares to Fenty, I can see a reduction in membership.

Exactly what are the benefits of joining now the power the Trust might have held has gone?

Quoted from Ipswin

I don't see a sudden rush to join the Trust, in fact, given the decision by the existing members (based on a recommendation from the Trust Board) to give away 200,000 shares to Fenty, I can see a reduction in membership.

Exactly what are the benefits of joining now the power the Trust might have held has gone?

Have you joined, young Doubrey

Quoted from pseudonym

Have you joined, young Doubrey

Certainly not sunbeam, I stopped dancing to the tune of people like Fenty when I got away from Owen Roberts in 1968

I have bought shares although what good they are I don't know but I feel I own a little bit of 'my' (sorry Fenty's) club, probably half a corner flag or summat

See you at Braintree and Cambridge next season mate and maybe Dartford or Chelmsford

Quoted from voice of reason

I hope you are wrong because if the implications of this have not been understood by now, then I doubt they ever will...

I feel sorry for the Trust on this because JF has made you lot look a little bit silly if you don't take the seat after he publicly offered it to you...

VOR, could you link to to somewhere where John Fenty has offered the Mariners Trust a seat on the board because I think I must have missed it?

Quoted from TWAreaTownSupporter

(1) You've got John Fenty to thank for that. Let's face it, you were done over good and proper.

(2) You mean other than being a major shareholder (at least before the naive cave in) and representing the biggest income stream for the club, i.e. the supporters.

(3) You could have used the Trust's windfall shareholding to negotiate a re-write of this though.

(4) You are not wrong. The Trust board and most of the members clearly don't fully understand. That is the problem. We would be better off with a mass membership of people who don't understand the issues but with a simple mistrust of those in control. Hell, you're making me seem like an old school class warrior.

Please don't make assumptions like this because I can assure you that you're absolutely wrong. Company directors, people from the world of finance and big businesses along with managers, solicitors and civil servants make up the Trust board. We aren't mugs, fella, far from it.

Quoted from Chris

VOR, could you link to to somewhere where John Fenty has offered the Mariners Trust a seat on the board because I think I must have missed it?

http://www.thisisgrimsby.co.uk.....30-detail/story.html

"They are looking to gain credibility, and they are ultimately looking for a seat on the board. I don't have an objection to that."

So the £200K worth of shares have been transfered, the voting rights wavered, now for that seat on the board that JF doesn't have an objection to.

http://www.marinerstrust.co.uk/index.php/news/36

"The logical first step is to achieve a non executive position on the board and discussions about this are very much on going and we feel very confident of a favourable outcome."

"There are two main things. Firstly John was absolutely adamant from the start that he would not purchase any more shares . Secondly he has accepted that we will be involved in the budget setting as described above."

Were the Trust told of the Ryan Bennett deal before agreeing to recommend these proposals?

No we were not but even though it is a significant windfall we don’t think it changes the need to alter the balance of shares in order to unlock more funding, Obviously there had been dialogue in advance of deadline day but with the deal only going through with two minutes to spare nobody could be relying on it with any certainty.

How long do the trust have to wait for a seat on the board before they smell something fishy, pardon the pun.

Thanks, Marinerz but I'm still waiting for the link to an offer of a place on the board. I can see that he is open to the idea, but nowhere there is there an offer? it's a genuine question, I'm not being funny or anything.

As Wrawbs has already said, we've discussed this at length within the Trust board and have also had talks with the club. Those talks are ongoing. It is certainly something we look to progress.

For me personally (NOT Trust viewpoint), a seat on the board is not now the first priority. Growth in membership is key to having a credible shout for a seat. It's chicken and egg Id say because our critics would say we should go for a seat which in turn will improve our membership, others would say how can we have a seat on the board with only 400-450 members (i.e. question how representative we are of the supporters).

Id like to see numbers swelled quickly in persuit of such a seat, justifying our place and then giving those members the voice and the say that they crave.