match thread

Quoted from petethemariner

I haven't posted for a while but this  big charlie attitude SOME  on here have really is annoying, instead of trying to belittle the likes of Tamworth we should be applauding them - they are a part time outfit with a string of good results against the 'big boys' of this league - better results against the top teams than we have managed, which is why we will probably be a BSP side again next year - this is no mugs league and the time that some of the more unrealistic fans on this site realise this, will be a step forward.

Exactly.

Especially when we were annoyingly branded small-time in a similar fashion when we were in the Championship amongst clubs with attendances 4, 5 or 6 times what we were getting. Every team is where they are on merit. Southport are part time and they are in the play offs for godsake. What an achievement that is for a part time team, even if they don't make it, to be there challenging at this stage of the season is fantastic. They could probably teach us a thing or two about consistency.

Totally right  Tommy, we need to be a bit more gracious about the merits of other teams, i remember the day after we beat Spurs in the league cup that their fans on line  were immense in our praise, most of them  probably didn't even know where Grimsby was, but they did not for one moment try to belittle us, if we keep harping on about our history and fan base, we will become a target for all other teams to beat and like Luton, wollow in this league for years to come.

Quoted from petethemariner

Totally right  Tommy, we need to be a bit more gracious about the merits of other teams, i remember the day after we beat Spurs in the league cup that their fans on line  were immense in our praise, most of them  probably didn't even know where Grimsby was, but they did not for one moment try to belittle us, if we keep harping on about our history and fan base, we will become a target for all other teams to beat and like Luton, wollow in this league for years to come.

It's not a case of being gracious about the so called smaller pub teams and not many on here try to belittle those clubs. But at the end of the day we have a bigger spend, we are a bigger club than most and far from the days when we were punching above our weight we are now massively under achieving. We must remember we have had 10 years of dross and nearly being in the play offs in a non league division comprising of some really really small clubs probably doesn't cut the mustard with a lot of our support. UTM

Quoted from petethemariner

I haven't posted for a while but this  big charlie attitude SOME  on here have really is annoying, instead of trying to belittle the likes of Tamworth we should be applauding them - they are a part time outfit with a string of good results against the 'big boys' of this league - better results against the top teams than we have managed, which is why we will probably be a BSP side again next year - this is no mugs league and the time that some of the more unrealistic fans on this site realise this, will be a step forward.

I agree we ARE where we are and other teams deserve some credit.
I thought a win might be tough tonight too.
But are you saying it's "unrealistic" to beat Tamworth or am I stuck in the Championship too ?  
I'm certainly not moaning about tonight but should I not expect or hope for a win at Tamworth next season ?  

The people that I find annoying are the ones who always want everyone else to feel positive every time we don't quite achieve.
But why ?
Do you honestly think it helps anything ? If you do then please explain it to me.  
Honestly, I really want to understand your thinking of how it benefits the club cos I just don't get it !

All I know is, it's god knows how many years of slipping down the leagues without success and always the same old tactic of playing down a lack of success like it's a good thing.
Well say what you like but it clearly it hasn't worked yet.
Or do you enjoy not winning or what ?  

IMO it's long overdue we RAISE expectations to get out, not try to lower them AGAIN !

No, not so the called "moaners" can enjoy moaning or abusing people for the fun of it - no one wants that !  
Simply so management and players find it more difficult to drop into their comfort zones and get away with delivering 2nd best.
Did you hear Hurst on RH tonight ? Said he'd been trying to take pressure OFF the players.
Well he may well have been right there but fact is, that didn't work either.

So forget post match reactions and face facts Pete - by accepting 2nd best too easily you're only helping prepare the bed for another acceptance of future failure.  

There's no point lowering expectations and throwing the clubs future out with the bathwater to chase an impossible dream of zero dissent.   

In truth, I think all a lot of fans are just as guilty of sh1tstirring as the ones they're pointing the finger at.
In reality all it really does is breed more resentment and a wider split - well if you really want the club to successful then it's all got to stop !!!

Tommy, I'm afraid you're equally at fault too IMO.
Why seek to pre-empt potential moans about KHM with a load of negative and baseless speculation over what he might not be able to do on the pitch ?
I would argue it amounts to little more than moaning over nothing.
If people moan then deal with it later when they do, don't moan at people that haven't even moaned yet !  

I'm no angel myself but honestly don't think some fans are quite as positive as they think they are !  

I think some fans need to ask themselves what they REALLY want.
For GTFC to never be criticized ? (forget constructive criticism might help)
Or to be successful and much less criticized ?
Which is it ?....

Quoted from 1600

Tommy, I'm afraid you're equally at fault too IMO.
Why seek to pre-empt potential moans about KHM with a load of negative and baseless speculation over what he might not be able to do on the pitch ?
I would argue it amounts to little more than moaning over nothing.
If people moan then deal with it later when they do, don't moan at people that haven't even moaned yet !  

Just to clarify on this. I didn't pre-empt people moaning. It was being complained about on several threads over the last couple of weeks with loads of people questioning team selection and gobsmacked why KHM hadn't started a game. I'm not saying, people shouldn't question the club/managers/players, or constructively criticise. I just suggested a different thought that might explain why he hadn't been starting.

I really didn't see that thread coming across as a negative post, or moaning.

Tommy, to be clear you're a valued poster and I don't mean to have a go at you or anyone else.  

I was merely trying to point out that your post came across as a bit negative itself.

To clarify I thought it was a bit negative cos you said:

Quoted from Tommy

I've been saying for a while about Duffy that he is better suited to coming on as an impact sub - a Plan B option. As he doesn't seem to offer enough when he starts a game - not enough (if any) movement off the ball, no real effort to close down and quite slow to react to ball played up front if it's not directly to him.

Maybe KHM is the same. At least for now anyway, not forgetting he is still relatively young and will be improving now playing full time.

But please don't get me wrong here, I need to be clear...
It's not a criticism of the "negativity" you (or anyone else) may or may not have had.

I just see this whole negativity issue a slightly different way to how the majority of others perhaps do...
I'm gonna post another (final) reply to try to explain why I think it could be actually be holding the club back.

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

I'm not saying make people shouldn't be looking at how we can improve, more that we should try to avoid a return to the negativity of earlier in the season.

But again, why ?
Because a few idiots might get abusive ?
Constantly worry about the idiots, you'll get sidetracked from the job in hand.

Negativity earlier in the season ?
To be fair, what do you expect Joe Bloggs to think when we're bottom of the table ?  

I stuck up for S&H myself after Braintree.
But because of positive signs on the pitch, not because of this myth that positivity on the messagboards alone is the key to success.
FACT is there wasn't much negativity on the long winning run so it can't have been negativity which has brought it all to an end.
I'm afraid if it was that simple, we'd have already cracked it a long time ago !

Is there a wider issue that some fans just want to feel good all the time ?
I guess that must be it...

Well guess what, as admirable as it may be for a true fan to always be willing to back the club regardless of where it lies in the BSP, I doubt there there are enough fans who are willing to accept ANYTHING for it to survive long term on that basis.

Call me unsupportive, greedy or negative but I'm not satisifed with just anything, I want some success !  

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

Last night people we're suggesting we had no spirit, the run of wins was only against poor teams etc I don't think criticism like that is helpful or fair.

I'd really love to know what you're scared of, I really would !

Don't you understand we haven't beaten any of the top teams and that's probably what other fans mean by other teams being "poor" ?  

Yes you're right, Tamworth looked a useful side last night.
Not a criticism but fact is, we're gonna have to beat teams like this (and better) next season.
Is that negative or is that pretty much FACT ?
How is it "helpful" to deny that's the case ?
Because people might moan or be "unfair" ?
Well to be frank so what ?
What's the real prioirity here ? What's the issue ?

But let's assume for one sec you're right - it's not helpful.
What's the answer ?
Have a go back and point the finger like many do ?
That's really gonna help win them over isn't it ?  

However much people care or THINK they're right and throw a wobbler back, FACT is this approach has already been tried, hasn't worked, no one has really learnt anything and nothing has really changed.
The ONLY way we'll "avoid a return to the negativity" is through success on the pitch UNLESS we can all learn to be more tolerant and unite into one big happy family and all stop moaning about each other for the fun of it.

But to expect people to be positive every time we fall short is unrealistic, patronizing and most importantly, self defeating for the club itself.
Cos it basically means we fool ourselves into accepting eveything is always fine regardless of whether it is.
Forget lower attendances through supporters feeling isolated, spurned or mocked for a sec.
What's gonna happen if players (or management) think they can get away with 2nd best ?
Haven't we been down this "journeyman" and "You're not fit to wear the shirt !" road before ?

And what's the ultimate goal here ?
100% positivity on the messageboard just in case Town hit bottom of the table again ?
Sorry but that's not just unrealistic and irrelevant, it's negative.  

Ironically, we set up defensively vs Luton cos we're still overly-worried what might happen if we lose.
See the problem ? It's a self-fulfilling prophecy of missing out, born out of negativity itself !  
Why are we more worried about fans being "negative" than the team ? (it's not like the team hasn't been negative for years)

Anyone starting to see a connection between trying to please fans by employing negative/defensive tactics out on the pitch and it turning into a vicious circle of not getting the results to please them ?

Tell you what though, let's just pretend we're all 100% positive, S&H have ALL the answers (even though they don't fully understand the clubs history) and just keep denying it's nothing to do with us and just settle for whatever we get.

But I wouldn't just assume it's gonna last forever.
If S&H don't crack it all on their own then how long before JF gets weary over a lack of success in the BSP with his money running out ?
Not that long is my guess.

So next time you want to moan at someone off for what you perceive to be "negativity", maybe think twice and ask yourself it's it's as helpful to the club or it's chances as you really think ?

You really are a pompous fornicator.

No problem, have it your way.
I've got no interest in having arguments or getting personal.

You keep abusing people, I'll keep trying to be objective, seeking answers to issues that may or may not help the club.
I'll also give credit to you or anyone else when I think it's due, regardless of whether people like me or not.

If that's pompous then so be it.

Quoted from 1600

I agree we ARE where we are and other teams deserve some credit.
I thought a win might be tough tonight too.
But are you saying it's "unrealistic" to beat Tamworth or am I stuck in the Championship too ?  
I'm certainly not moaning about tonight but should I not expect or hope for a win at Tamworth next season ?  

The people that I find annoying are the ones who always want everyone else to feel positive every time we don't quite achieve.
But why ?
Do you honestly think it helps anything ? If you do then please explain it to me.  
Honestly, I really want to understand your thinking of how it benefits the club cos I just don't get it !

All I know is, it's god knows how many years of slipping down the leagues without success and always the same old tactic of playing down a lack of success like it's a good thing.
Well say what you like but it clearly it hasn't worked yet.
Or do you enjoy not winning or what ?  

IMO it's long overdue we RAISE expectations to get out, not try to lower them AGAIN !

No, not so the called "moaners" can enjoy moaning or abusing people for the fun of it - no one wants that !  
Simply so management and players find it more difficult to drop into their comfort zones and get away with delivering 2nd best.
Did you hear Hurst on RH tonight ? Said he'd been trying to take pressure OFF the players.
Well he may well have been right there but fact is, that didn't work either.

So forget post match reactions and face facts Pete - by accepting 2nd best too easily you're only helping prepare the bed for another acceptance of future failure.  

There's no point lowering expectations and throwing the clubs future out with the bathwater to chase an impossible dream of zero dissent.   

In truth, I think all a lot of fans are just as guilty of sh1tstirring as the ones they're pointing the finger at.
In reality all it really does is breed more resentment and a wider split - well if you really want the club to successful then it's all got to stop !!!

Tommy, I'm afraid you're equally at fault too IMO.
Why seek to pre-empt potential moans about KHM with a load of negative and baseless speculation over what he might not be able to do on the pitch ?
I would argue it amounts to little more than moaning over nothing.
If people moan then deal with it later when they do, don't moan at people that haven't even moaned yet !  

I'm no angel myself but honestly don't think some fans are quite as positive as they think they are !  

I think some fans need to ask themselves what they REALLY want.
For GTFC to never be criticized ? (forget constructive criticism might help)
Or to be successful and much less criticized ?
Which is it ?....

Haven't looked at this thread since i posted, but 80's, not for one moment am i suggesting we should be happy with our lot in this league, its an ongoing disaster we are where we are, but where we find our selves is a fact of life and to call clubs that survive with us on an equal footing despite  massively inferior incomes'pub teams' is insulting to them and only highlights the mismanagement of our club for a decade.
This league is a tough one to get out, of as many ex league clubs have found, 'pub teams'  love nothing more than sticking one on the 'fancied' teams in this league, as we have found to our cost and continue to do so.
Of course i would expect us to beat Tamworth, but lets just remember we have failed to do precisely that on all 6 meetings with them - despite their 'Pub team' status!  Our history gives us no devine right to do that.
Raising expectations has absolutely zero to do with  the arrogance some on this site show to other teams competing well  in the SAME league as we are in.