league restructure

Is it not time the FA took a long and hard look at the leagues financial position . Just how many clubs are on the brink of exstinction . This country can't sustain so many professional clubs .
I feel it's time to have Prem 1 and Prem 2 . followed by a north and south division 1 . When or if Plymouth get relegated just how much would it cost for Gateshead to travel that far ? and like wise the reverse fixture . Just how do clubs like Hayes or Ebbsfleet manage to function with crowds well under the 1000 mark ?
It may be a hard pill to swallow for fans but the reality is there is no money left , or being fed down from the top 5 or 6 clubs . If , as some reports say that certain premier clubs are bust , it will only take one of these to go and the whole system will collapse .
The power vacume will go elsewhere, France or Germany and we will finish up like the Italian league or god forbid the Scottish .

Fella, football is the victim of it's own greed. Unsustainability has been getting closer and closer as every last drop of goodness is drained from it.

It isn't a new problem it's gone on since from the day Murdoch started Sky TV. But even before that greed was there and transfer fees escalated from a few hundred of £ to thousand, hundreds of thousands and then millions.

The day it all falls over will happen and it might be the best thing ever to happen to the game.

Christ is Drogba really going to get £300,000 per week to kick a ball into the onion bag in China?

But it's not just the big boys that are to blame. The smaller clubs are very guilty of living beyond their means. Indeed, what will happen to little Crawley when the cash stops rolling in. Look how many traditional none league clubs over spend when they get a sniff of the Football League.

No other business entity (barring banks) would be allowed to oprate like football clubs. Whilst the fans don't deserve to lose clubs, the people running the clubs do deserve to go bust as they run the places into the ground.

Deep joy ! nice to hear someone else thinking on the same lines as myself.. I said that football was on
a downward spiral the moment SKY took over... because it is the SKY league now whether we like it or not....

PREM , CHAMPIONSHIP... league 1 or 2... its all just marketing to get the rich ones richer....

think that something along the Turkish FA wud be better... they are a massive country , and have 8 divison 3s
regionalised... (or did have )
Lets have a Div 1... Div 2... Div 3 north / midland and south and hopefully some better finances will creep
back into the lower reaches

I don't think restructuring the leagues on a regional basis would help that much. It's all about the money and even on a regional basis you would have some club that would become the 'moneybags' team and spend their way to success. We know this because it happens now.

No, what are needed are financial restrictions and these should come in two forms. They should re-introduce the practice of splitting all gate receipts down the middle between home team and visitors which is how it used to be until the early 1980's. The scrapping of that system, in my opinion, has done far more damage to the game than the input of Sky Television which many of a certain age seem quite happy to accept as the 'Great Satan'. The haves and have-nots in football were well-established when Sky was just a local cable service in Swindon. This is a fair redistribution of profits in a business unlike any other; football clubs cannot operate alone, they need competition in order to play.

Secondly, a wage cap at all levels is needed and one that is strictly adhered to. Ideally no more than 50% of income should be spent on player salaries. If the PFA doesn't like that idea, tough. If they think people kicking a bag of air around for an hour and a half every week deserve more then they can always tell their members to seek employment in other industries.

Quoted from kingofthekippers

I don't think restructuring the leagues on a regional basis would help that much. It's all about the money and even on a regional basis you would have some club that would become the 'moneybags' team and spend their way to success. We know this because it happens now.

No, what are needed are financial restrictions and these should come in two forms. They should re-introduce the practice of splitting all gate receipts down the middle between home team and visitors which is how it used to be until the early 1980's. The scrapping of that system, in my opinion, has done far more damage to the game than the input of Sky Television which many of a certain age seem quite happy to accept as the 'Great Satan'. The haves and have-nots in football were well-established when Sky was just a local cable service in Swindon. This is a fair redistribution of profits in a business unlike any other; football clubs cannot operate alone, they need competition in order to play.

Secondly, a wage cap at all levels is needed and one that is strictly adhered to. Ideally no more than 50% of income should be spent on player salaries. If the PFA doesn't like that idea, tough. If they think people kicking a bag of air around for an hour and a half every week deserve more then they can always tell their members to seek employment in other industries.

Well said but I think the split was 75% / 25% on the gates. UTM

Money definitely needs to be better distributed, but, clubs should be more accountable for their actions, it's not Sky or the Premier League or Israel's fault that Plymouth are paying Simon Walton more than they can afford.

In a word Doc Tower, "No".

Most clubs are surviving. We supported 3 national divisions when the average real income was a fraction of what it is now, when money avaialable for spending on leisure pursuits was a fraction of what it is now. Yes football has to compete against lots of other leisure options but despite financial mismanagement it seems to be thriving.

That's not to say things shouldn't change but like some other examples of culture, its heavily subsidised (largely by people who want to subsdise it).

KOTK is wrong. Gate receipts were never split down the middle. Admittedly they were more evenly distributed before (still around in the FA Cup split of gate receipts). But never 50:50. And Sky is the Great Satan (I am of that certain age). The scrapping of that more equal match day income is a sympton of the same spreading malaise as Sky TV (although it does pre-date the Premier League).  It's all the fault of people like Irving Scholar. And nobs who support Sky/PremierLeague by paying the subs/watching it in the pub, read the Sun etc.

Ironically in sporting matters, the original Great Satan has figured out that socialism rather than out and out capitalism is more conducive to a sporting spectacle by creating a level playing field. Witness that corrupted version of a ball game they play in shoulder pads and helmets.

At one time gate receipts were split 50:50.

It ensured that all teams benefitted home and away and 'equalised' competition.

Obviously the best supported teams still had the upper hand as they had higher regular incomes just from from their percentage of their home attendances.

The Premiershite was formed so that the biggest clubs could get as much of the money as possible. TV rights/sponsorship etc.

This handful of biggest clubs screwed the rest of the Football League clubs in order to fill their own coffers and we've all been on a downward spiral ever since.

It's just a shame that none of the really big ones have gone under as some of them surely deserved. Instead, it's the smaller clubs who have suffered. It's miraculous that so few Football League clubs have gone under so far but smaller non-league clubs (many of them well over a century old) are now falling like ninepins. Where they lead, the rest of us follow.

I blame Jimmy Hill.

Quoted from RexFannies

I blame Jimmy Hill.

I'm sure he'll take it on the chin....

Quoted from siy2k5

I'm sure he'll take it on the chin....

Sky is a major part of the trouble, but is equal partners with the formation of Premier League. The advent of both not only funnelled vast amount of TV into the bigger clubs, it took money away from smaller clubs with the exodus of glory supporters who would rather watch the goggle box than real football. It also a direct reason for the number clubs that have been in to administration, chasing the dream of the vast wads of cash available in the prem.

Splitting the lower leagues will not help, and if anything would make it worse. At the moment we're all in the same pot, however remote we have possibility of making into the prem. The moment we let them form the prem 2 they shut the shop to teams like us going up, surely you haven't forgotten the so called pheonix league? Divide the lower leagues and you will literally devalue the product (Yes I know that phrase is a bit over used around GTFC, but in this case its true)

Having to travel 100,s of miles to play in front of 1,000/  2,000 fans is just plain daft,

Having a regional league would ensure bigger gates with more derby games,

Prem league, Championship then North, South , and Midland leagues would make a lot more common sense.

No overnight stays required, bigger gate receipts means the clubs would be able to run their clubs more effectivly,

AND

The FA Cup would be even more attractive, playing clubs a long way away, if you get past the 2nd round.

I agree that a regionalised 3rd/4th division would be a good idea. Let's face it, there isn't a great deal of difference in quality between the clubs in these two divisions and a regionalised Third Division North and Third Division South as in the past would be quite a decent idea. A lot more derby matches ought to mean higher attendances and therefore more revenue. Also, there would be lower travelling expenses.

I'm not sure what the precise figures are bit I think that Championship clubs have greater voting rights than Divisions One and Two in the Football League set-up. If that is the case then clubs in The Championship would decide if the lower divisions should be regionalised or not. Were I the Chairman of a Championship club I doubt if I would think it a good idea. The current three-up and three-down between the Championship and League One would have to be altered to either two or four up and down. That would be a bone of contention. Should a Championship club be relegated ... then have another bad season ... they could be in the Conference in 12 months. Even if that didn't happen the prospect of home games against the likes of Barnet or Macclesfield would not be attractive to clubs newly relegated from the Championship. Promotion for relegated clubs should be easier but where would that leave run-of-the-mill League Two clubs? Playing to avoid relegation every year. The Rochdales and Dagenhams have had their moments of glory recently by winning promorion to League One but that prospect would disappear under regionalisation. You would simply get the same teams playing each other, pretty much, season after season. Equally, teams promoted from the Conference would be no match for clubs newly relegated from the Championship whereas currently they can continue their forward momentum in League Two if well-managed.

Its good to read other points of view regarding this subject , also Mr Eltons knowledge on the Turkish league and his ideas could pay dividends . Most agree that Sky is one of the culprits , but reginal North and South would provide more derby matches . As for Town getting back into the championship , we have a long way to go but we all have a dream . Who would have thought of 2 Wembley trips in one year . That alone and the memory of it will still make me die a happy man . Who knows where Mr Scott and Mr Hurst will take us .

Premiership and Championship stay the same. Regionalise League 1 and 2 into League 1 North/South.  Regionalising the next levels are tough as the Conference North/South is regionalised. I'd be in favour of splitting it in two to help form League 2 North/South and promoting other teams further down the pyramid.

On the plus side, we would be a league team again.

From the North/South's one team would be promoted automatically in each and either 2nd-5th going through the play offs. Alternatively you could have 1 play off final so North v South in the final and that team going up. All dependent on whether or not you want 3 up or 4 up.

Your spot on with what you have there . You don't work for the FA do you ?

You can have all the restructuring you like but the problem is that every club in the land pays everything and more out in wages. Increase a clubs income by 20% and their wage bill will go up 25% very shortly after.

I've never been one for slamming Sky as the 'destroyer of football'. Take yourself back to the dark days of the 1970's and 1980's and despite all the misty-eyed romantacism, football was dying. The football fan was treated with nothing but contempt, being asked to stand in grounds that were largely undeveloped since the immediate post-war years. Clubs spent the bare minimum on supporters and in some cases not even the legal minimum - take the disasters at Valley Parade and Hillsborough as examples.

By 1991 the game was dying, riddled with hooliganism and the next generation of supporters staying away. If you blame anyone for the Premiership blame the then top flight clubs who wanted a greater share of TV revenue, which at that time came from ITV. Sky may have won the rights and provided the money to change all that but it was up to the clubs how they spent it. No one told them they had to offer salaries far in excess of income, they decided that one themselves. But as a consequence of that investment we have some of the finest league stadia in the world (with BP being the obvious exception).

Regional leagues may bring down travelling costs but until the larger picture is tackled - fairer re-distribution of income between clubs and a salary cap all anything else will do is paper over the cracks. You know it would work because the big clubs would hate it; lower league regionalism would suit them fine, it would just allow them to increase the gap even further.

So we should alter the leagues just because teams are spending money they havent got still and most of them are still throwing money like it was confetti TOTAL COBBLERS for the idea