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Euro 2024

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DB
July 1, 2024, 11:25am
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I think Southgate's team talk came from him watching the Mariners after all we are the original "Come back Kings".


You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
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diehardmariner
July 1, 2024, 12:41pm
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Quoted from Hagrid
Weird mentality these players seem to have

Its like they want the fans against them, the whinging in interviews, you've been flipping garbage for 4 games, Bellingham is incredibly talented, but coming across an arrogant helmet.


Siege mentality.  

The thing is, Southgate has always tactically had his criticism and fairly so as well.  But what was never in doubt was that the players would run through brick walls for him and he created a proper team mentality.  In almost every way he's the Paul Hurst of the international game.  

This tournament though that's looked in doubt.  Not so much the willingness to run through walls for him but just looking like a unit.  They've looked disjointed as hell for all bar the opening 20 minutes of the first game.  I've defended Southgate before because his ability to get the best out of a collection of players and form a unit is a major attribute and I still argue that on the international stage that's probably better than having a tactical genius simply because your window to embed and enforce a style of play is incredibly limited, anyone dreaming that Pep would turn us into a tika-taka machine needs a reality check.

But bloody hell he's really testing his boundaries this summer.  I'll accept his tactical flaws but that stubborn refusal to change has long tipped into downright stupidity.  The fact that he feels there's only one position (the other midfield role alongside Rice) as the one that is a problem is staggering.  Both full-backs have been poor and to be totally honest I think you take your centre-backs and Pickford out the equation and everyone else has looked poor more than they've not.  Bellingham got us out of jail with a piece of magic, that justifies his position in the team and staying on the pitch, but he has been as poor as anyone.  Foden's got a lot of stick but for me he's looked better, less poor than Bellingham.  Difference is the two goals from one and none from the other.  Kane the same, his leading of the line has been awful in the four games so far.  

Had we gone out he would rightly have lost his job as England manager.  That his final action would have been to wait until the 94th minute to make his third substitution and introduce a second striker would have been embarrassing.   As it turned out having the ability to introduce 2 subs in Extra Time was to our benefit, but he can't have planned it like that.  You get an extra sub in Extra Time (as Slovakia used and we didn't) so it's a mute claim.  To spend 65+ minutes chasing the game and only making a single sub before the 84th minute is just baffling, even that change was enforced due to Trippier's injury.  

We've played 4 average teams and huffed and puffed our way through.  Whilst unbeaten we've failed to beat Denmark, Slovenia and Slovakia over 90 minutes.  With the exception of Greece in 2004 you can't win a tournament by boring your way to it.  The draw has fallen incredibly favourably for us but we won't get away with that level of performance against the Swiss, nor at any point further on.  A Spain or Germany will tear us to shreds should we get that far and not up every aspect of our performances.

It's easy watching from home and say 'do this, change that, bring so and so on'.  But at some point Southgate has to take the reigns off and recognise that this set of players should be generation defining for English football.  For whatever reason he's got them playing within themselves and we can't rely on luck and 96th minute moments of magic all the time.  

I think he's gone beyond the point of having a reason to not start Cole Palmer.  He wasn't amazing when he came on but he was different.  Foden and Saka have spent the best part of 4 games farting about and getting nowhere, Palmer at least went at sides and carried the ball in possession.  Bellingham looked at his best in the first game when he was coming deep and impacting play.  What we've seen since is him stay further forward and Kane dropping deeper and deeper to get possession.  There's probably a genuine argument to drop every outfield player for the next game, but that won't happen.  One, if not two, changes will be enforced at centre-back and then potentially left-back.  The first one I would imagine will be Konsa coming in as the most like-for-like for Guéhi.  At left-back there's only really Gomez as an option, chucking an unfit Luke Shaw in would be just stupid and makes the decision to go with one recognised left-back and even then an unfit one even dafter.  But I half expect he'll almost bottle dropping one of his front four and drop Saka into defence with Palmer coming into the attack.  

Personally, I'm not arsed about the left-back position as much as I am the midfield.  I'm in complete agreement regards Wharton, he's the only player we've got who can effectively sit and turn play over quickly.  I think Rice has been one of our better players but that's not his best position and he's better utilised with a little bit of licence to drive on.  Equally so Bellingham, in my opinion, would be more effective if he's influencing play a bit deeper.  International football is more about the build up than at club level so he, bit like Foden, is going to be less effective if he's just waiting on something to fall in and around the box.    Wharton taking it off the centre-backs, Rice and Bellingham as the midfield dynamo's/No 8's/box-to-box midfielders, don't care what you call them just get them influencing play and stretching sides.  If they're doing that you also need your wide players to stretch it even further, not really sold on Gordon as all that but he's the one player we've got who will run on the outside and go at his full-back.  When we've used him he's looked effective, yet last night he sat chewing his fingers for the duration.  

Feels a long wait until Saturday, which is good for Southgate because he needs as much time as possible to transform the approach.  If we're to miss out because of a bit of individual brilliance from an Mbappe type then sometimes you just hold your hands up and say 'ok, fair enough'.  But if we flounder out because we've had all this fantastic talent that was under utilised then it's an absolute waste.  Somehow we're now in the same position we would be even if we had steamrolled everyone 8-0, but his tenure ends on 100 games without adopting that mentality of going out to do just that (or even just a little bit more towards it!)
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Maringer
July 1, 2024, 2:59pm
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The problem with picking Gomez as a left-back is that he's crap at it. A distinctly average right-back and centre-back but well below-average on the left.

I'd normally be happy with Walker moving across to the left as his pace would theoretically be beneficial for a player who isn't naturally left-sided. However, he's been poor this tournament as well and defensively dodgy which really isn't like him. Old Father Time finally catching up, perhaps?

It's a real shame that apparently only one or two of the many left-footed English professional footballers decided to become a full-back. What are the odds, eh?
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Maringer
July 1, 2024, 6:57pm
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I wonder if Artell is scouting this O.G. fellah? Scoring goals left, right and centre.
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Hagrid
July 1, 2024, 9:19pm

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Ronaldo is dragging this Portugal side down

Poor management from Martinez to allow it
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LH
July 1, 2024, 9:33pm

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Very funny that he’s costing them though. They’ve created their own problem calling him up. How has Martinez been given this job?
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Gaffer58
July 1, 2024, 9:50pm
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Personally I think Renaldo basically picks the team, for their third group game they were already through so Martinez made I believe 8/9 changes, but Renaldo still played, he’s 39 so the rest would have been useful,but because Ronaldo wants to break records he played.
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Maringer
July 1, 2024, 9:53pm
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It would be glorious if Slovenia won it with a direct free-kick stuck in the top corner.
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LH
July 1, 2024, 10:17pm

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He knows he’s done doesn’t he?
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Maringer
July 1, 2024, 10:23pm
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Crying after the first half of extra-time? That's madness. Weird, in fact.

Brilliant penalty save by the keeper, it must be said.
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