Covid vaccine

Quoted from Manchester Mariner

It was in Warrington today and of course would've been a bunch of anti vax nutbars to be calling vaccine staff worse than hitler and that they all have blood on their hands. Absolute crazytalk.

Interestingly my neighbour got covid just before Christmas pretty bad and was ill for a while. In his 20's, reasonably healthy and with no previous issues. A month later he was also whisked off to hospital in the night with a racing heart beat. Maybe another possible covid related symptom?

Heart rhythm disturbances
Covid-19 may cause your heart rate to become fast or irregular. Your pulse rate may increase in response to fever or inflammation as your heart works harder to pump more blood around your body to fight the infection.

Some people are reporting palpitations, or that their heart is beating faster, even after their initial coronavirus infection has resolved. For some people this may be a sign of long Covid. This is an area that researchers are continuing to look into, but it’s thought that this could be due to the virus and the immune response to the virus affecting the autonomic nervous system (rather than the heart muscle itself). This is the part of the nervous system that works automatically to regulate essential body processes, like blood pressure, heart rate and breathing rate.


Also confirmed that heart inflammation is an adverse reaction to the vaccine:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57781637

It’s been widely reported in all the USA media over the weekend about a leaked CDC report that now says vaccinated people spread the Delta variant at the same rate as the unvaccinated, here’s a section from the New York Times - July 30, 2021-

[/b]In yet another unexpected and unwelcome twist in the pandemic, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention released on Friday a report strongly suggesting that fully immunized people with so-called breakthrough infections of the Delta variant can spread the virus to others just as readily as unvaccinated people.

The vaccines remain powerfully effective against severe illness and death, and the agency said infections in vaccinated people were comparatively rare. But the revelation follows a series of other recent findings about the Delta variant that have upended scientists’ understanding of the coronavirus.[b]

I wonder what these ‘other recent findings’ are?

Also came across this Pfizer tweet over the weekend that raises more question over their vaccine.

So all those pinning their hopes on a vaccine seemingly eradicating this flu virus are gonna be disappointed…

I’m sure someone will come on here and say the vaccine was never going to eradicate it which of course is true but sadly, of many of the people I’ve met and been bored to tears with talking about Covid, they’re under the impression it was gonna do just that.

Basically, folk are being blackmailed in to having a vaccine that either doesn’t really work or were being subjected to variants to suit an entirely different agenda…or both…

The Vaccines have done an amazing job no question in keeping the elderly and vulnerable from developing the more severe conditions and death. But I stand by that this group are the only people that needed the jabs. We would of been better served by the Government giving us Apps on our phones so we could self evaluate our need for these jabs based on age, Heath Cormobidities etc.
I say this by researching and listening to the many experts out there that are not necessarily on the government payrolls.

For example this latest news now emerging about the vaccinated now spreading Covid was already out there, We have experts including literally the credited inventor of mRNA (depending where you look) warning us for some time that having the vaccine would not stop the spread, but they were censored and the story buried.

There is evidence already mounting that vaccine coverage is not going to stop the virus and only cause more variants as the virus learns to outfox. Take Malta for example they have the highest uptake in vaccines anywhere in the world yet they have been having a spike in cases. (What are these vaccine passports for again?)

We were told vaccines were our way out of the pandemic to get back to normality but it’s not looking likely with Autumn/winter on the way. Reports from Country’s like Israel with longer term use and big uptakes are already showing a decline in the effectiveness of the vaccine with booster shots ready to go!
Back to the Pfizer tweet and they’re now literally admitting that they’re vaccine isn’t good enough and you need to take a drug as well.... sounds like a more expensive version of ivermectin🤔

We should be following the science and not the authoritarianism! good look to the French they’re not taking it, I wish them well.

Covid still isn't the flu. Never has been, never will be. The vaccines still work better than could have been anticipated at this time last year when scientists around the world were rushing to try and get something which would prove effective.

The US government scheme named "Operation Warp Speed" only had aims that the vaccines should be 50% effective - at preventing or decreasing the severity of infections:

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/.....ffective/5349964002/

The vaccines which have been in use since December knock this aim out of the park (to use an Americanism). They are so much more effective than we could have hoped, that it's pretty ridiculous that some think they aren't any use!

It is estimated that 22 million infections and 60,000 lives have been saved by them already in England alone:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-58014546

If it wasn't for the vaccines, we'd have been in lockdown for the past few months as infections caused by the spread of Delta rocketed and we'd be looking at hundreds of thousands of deaths this year. Unfortunately, this is likely to be seen in many of the poorer undervaccinated countries.

Anyway, that aside, the news continues to be remarkably better than expected by pretty much anybody. Number of hospitalisations is falling, which is mirroring the drop in confirmed cases last week. Not perhaps as much as might be expected due to the confirmed case drops so there were certainly lots going untested/unreported, but enough that there doesn't appear to be anything too dodgy in the numbers (not saying they were fiddled, just that there could be a number of reasons for them being under-reported). Deaths are still rising but hopefully these will peak in a week or two though it is likely to be a slow decline from there. The next set of ONS survey data will be interesting to see as regards estimated number of cases. The amount of strain on the NHS from the tens or perhaps even hundreds of thousands likely to develop Long Covid symptoms over the next few months will be a serious issue, even without the case numbers originally expected.

It seems probable that the drop in cases has come in great part due to the numbers of kids isolating towards the end of the school year (and years 11 and 13 weren't in school for the final month or two of term, of course), plus the numbers of people isolating due to being 'pinged'. Not sure that tweaking the app settings so much as revealed today is a great idea but Delta does have much faster onset than previous variants so there won't perhaps be too many people out and about who should be isolating. I'd imagine analysis in the future will be able to calculate just exactly what factors caused this unexpected drop in cases. I'm pleased that my guess we'd be back in lockdown by the end of the summer is likely to be proven incorrect. It turns out people have, in general, continued to behave as carefully as you'd hope in the middle of a pandemic.

I'd imagine we'll see cases beginning to bump up towards the end of the month even if they fall for the next week or two as people holiday and spread the virus (let's hope no new even nastier variants emerge from all the cases or are imported). All bets are off when schools reopen in September, however, as that will be large gatherings of unprotected people will begin to meet indoors and the weather will start to deteriorate as well. It would be nice if the government could take improved ventilation seriously as most countries are doing!

If you’re not at least a little sceptical of the vaccine then you really haven’t been paying attention or are totally burying your head in the sand.

Tell me why I should be sceptical. The trials have been carried out in the open and the data from them is readily available. And which vaccine in particular? We're using 3 in the UK - one with an Adenovirus vector and two using the new mRNA technology - with others to follow in the near future (recombinant protein, inactivated whole virus plus more).

What is to be sceptical about when we know the vaccines are so safe and efficacious, especially in comparison to the risks of the virus itself? This is true even taking into account the rare issues with the current vaccines with bloodclots and heart issues which are well-known.

Quoted from Maringer

Tell me why I should be sceptical. The trials have been carried out in the open and the data from them is readily available. And which vaccine in particular? We're using 3 in the UK - one with an Adenovirus vector and two using the new mRNA technology - with others to follow in the near future (recombinant protein, inactivated whole virus plus more).

What is to be sceptical about when we know the vaccines are so safe and efficacious, especially in comparison to the risks of the virus itself? This is true even taking into account the rare issues with the current vaccines with bloodclots and heart issues which are well-known.

Do you genuinely believe that the ‘research’ presented to use to prove the efficacy of the vaccine is legit? Not even a little bit of truth bending?

Do you agree that the representation of the vaccine as a cure to end Covid rather than allegedly minimise the risk is ok?

I’m not picking fault, you’re as entitled to your views and opinions as the next person, it’s good for discussion but having spent a considerable amount of time carrying out doctoral research for various reasons, one being my own PhD, sometimes you still have to be sceptical.

The rhetoric and propaganda surrounding the vaccine is not the fault of the scientists but it’s understandable that some folk are cautious or are exercising their right to choice. A few folk not wanting it isn’t going to be as catastrophic as the hyperbole would make us believe…

Quoted from Maringer

Tell me why I should be sceptical. The trials have been carried out in the open and the data from them is readily available. And which vaccine in particular? We're using 3 in the UK - one with an Adenovirus vector and two using the new mRNA technology - with others to follow in the near future (recombinant protein, inactivated whole virus plus more).

What is to be sceptical about when we know the vaccines are so safe and efficacious, especially in comparison to the risks of the virus itself? This is true even taking into account the rare issues with the current vaccines with bloodclots and heart issues which are well-known.

What are your thoughts on 16 & 17 year old's receiving vaccinations regardless of parental consent?
Waiting to gather more data on the risks before sanctioning the 2nd dose? Alarm bells should be ringing with that statement.

Quoted from aldi_01

Do you genuinely believe that the ‘research’ presented to use to prove the efficacy of the vaccine is legit? Not even a little bit of truth bending?

Do you agree that the representation of the vaccine as a cure to end Covid rather than allegedly minimise the risk is ok?

I’m not picking fault, you’re as entitled to your views and opinions as the next person, it’s good for discussion but having spent a considerable amount of time carrying out doctoral research for various reasons, one being my own PhD, sometimes you still have to be sceptical.

The rhetoric and propaganda surrounding the vaccine is not the fault of the scientists but it’s understandable that some folk are cautious or are exercising their right to choice. A few folk not wanting it isn’t going to be as catastrophic as the hyperbole would make us believe…

Well, yes, the research is clearly legitimate. If it wasn't we'd be seeing certainly many tens and possible hundreds of thousands of deaths around now. Even if you doubted the original trial data, the figures since the rollout of the vaccines show how efficaceous the vaccines are and the safety data is clear as well, despite what the scientifically illiterate anti-vaxxers would like you to believe. The contrast between countries/regions with low vaccination rates to those with high rates is huge and is only going to increase as Delta continues to spread in the poorer countries who managed to keep the earlier variants out or simply in check.

Unfortunately, you seem to be one of those who doesn't believe the clear evidence in front of you as your comment about how the vaccines "allegedly minimise the risk" shows. The latest data out of the REACT-1 study shows that infections in fully vaccinated people are 3 times lower than in the unvaccinated:

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/227713/coronavirus-infections-three-times-lower-double/

This is based on testing of almost 100,000 people, so a pretty well-powered study, I'm sure you'll agree. There are other studies that show virus levels drop much more quickly with breakthrough infections in the vaccinated than for those unvaccinated. Without a doubt, the vaccines reduce the chance of catching the virus - even Delta. On top of that, they reduce the severity of symptoms for breakthrough infections, reduce the risk of death and reduce the risk of passing on the virus to others.

'Herd immunity' or a successful treatment (which is a long way off yet) is the only way it will be possible to get this virus in check. The success of the early vaccines means that we're a long way towards herd immunity already, but with a fraction of the deaths we would otherwise have suffered if it had been the GBD 'let it rip' route. No protection for kids at the moment, of course.

The rhetoric and propaganda from the government has been appalling at times during the pandemic - but the stuff relating to the vaccines has been generally truthful. I don't really know what else to say here as the evidence is so clear when we look around at what is happening. We had to lockdown at the start of the year to stop the hospitals being overwhelmed by the number of cases. This wave, the government appears to have gotten away with their politically-motivated gamble to open up more as cases reached the January peaks. The vaccine rollout is the main reason for this.