Waes v ROI

Quoted from Maringer

Erm, plenty of the Irish don't like us very much either, you know.

Bear in mind that McLean, who scored the Irish goal, won't even wear a shirt with the emblem of a poppy on it because it commemorates British soldiers who died in conflict. Some of these were Irish volunteers, not that he probably either knows or cares about that.

Well, it's not quite as black and white as that.

As far as I understand it, the poppy commemorates victims of other conflicts - not just those who died in the two world wars.

In the 1970s British soldiers shot and killed unarmed civilians in Derry who were protesting about the British Army's mass arrest and imprisonment of their people. If you're from that area of Northern Ireland, there's plenty of ill feeling towards the British for what occurred back then.

He, and people from Derry, don't wish to wear a poppy because of what the British Army did that day. It's a very localised but significant chapter in the UK's history and I guess you have to be from the city to understand how deep the events of Bloody Sunday run.

Just glad we won't be seeing Chris Gunter type celebrations this time around!  

Quoted from RichMariner

Well, it's not quite as black and white as that.

As far as I understand it, the poppy commemorates victims of other conflicts - not just those who died in the two world wars.

In the 1970s British soldiers shot and killed unarmed civilians in Derry who were protesting about the British Army's mass arrest and imprisonment of their people. If you're from that area of Northern Ireland, there's plenty of ill feeling towards the British for what occurred back then.

He, and people from Derry, don't wish to wear a poppy because of what the British Army did that day. It's a very localised but significant chapter in the UK's history and I guess you have to be from the city to understand how deep the events of Bloody Sunday run.

Nobody mentions the lead up to bloody Sunday do they, were soldiers were being shot at, having petrol bombs and half bricks thrown at them also things dropping out of blocks of flats at them. Firstly, on that day it was reported in a sit rep that shots were fired first and a gun was sighted and intelligence confirming that there would be serious trouble leading up to that day, secondly you don't intercourse with the Para's any day of the week because you'll lose every time, the Argies found that out and so did the IRA sympathizers.

What do you think would happen if that crowd was allowed to over run the Para's, many British serviceman have died protecting both sides in Ireland. I know plenty of people who have served there and most of them have ptsd.

It also shouldn't be forgotten that the army originally went in to protect the Catholic community in Londonderry who were being attacked by the protestant bigots and B Specials during weeks of riots.

That soon went south, of course.

Quoted from Marinerz93

Nobody mentions the lead up to bloody Sunday do they, were soldiers were being shot at, having petrol bombs and half bricks thrown at them also things dropping out of blocks of flats at them. Firstly, on that day it was reported in a sit rep that shots were fired first and a gun was sighted and intelligence confirming that there would be serious trouble leading up to that day, secondly you don't intercourse with the Para's any day of the week because you'll lose every time, the Argies found that out and so did the IRA sympathizers.

What do you think would happen if that crowd was allowed to over run the Para's, many British serviceman have died protecting both sides in Ireland. I now plenty of people who have served there and most of them have ptsd.

Read the Saville Report and the apology from the Government. They were unarmed civilians on a peaceful protest. Your macho paras crap is embarrassing.

I take your point, but how far back in history do you want to look? Why were the British Army being targeted? Why was a city with a nationalist majority ruled by unionists and deprived of investment?

There are two sides to every story, so that's why it's always important to learn about each so we can fully understand the situation before passing judgment.

It's not wrong to have an opinion, but it's important to listen to reasoning. If more world leaders did this we might not be on the verge of world war 3.

Quoted from mirrorballman

Read the Saville Report and the apology from the Government. They were unarmed civilians on a peaceful protest. Your macho paras crap is embarrassing.

Try being on the ground, living everyday with your life under threat. Saville report, written by Lord Saville who was mates with Tony 'war criminal Blair. Tony and his wife are both catholic, with his wife making a fortune out of human rights law cases.

One lawyer representing soldiers involved in the enquiry stated that Lord Saville "cherry picked" the evidence in his inquiry and that Lord Saville felt under pressure to give a verdict that is not borne out by the available evidence. This view was later echoed by a former paratrooper writing in the Belfast Telegraph that the Saville Inquiry was one-sided and did not reflect events of the day as he experienced them.

Bogside and other Catholic areas became a no-go areas for the British Army and police. Both the Official and Provisional IRA openly patrolled the area and local residents often paid subscriptions to both.

Nothing macho about it, just stating the facts because the para's don't intercourse around nor will they wait for someone to kill them. There was IRA in the crowd and most certainly IRA sympathisers. It's common place in Ireland for groups to form to show force, just like the scores of kids who used to throw stones at the Police trying to get them to chase them so they could be set up and shot. It's called a come on exactly what the crowd did before events went wrong for them.

At 5.03 on this video you will hear a zip noises as a round fly's past the para's, are you telling me the para's are shooting at each other, also the build up to what happened isn't peaceful.

[youtube]4od8v13RT9s[/youtube]

Was this a Christmas fixture

No L

Quoted from The_Laughing_Mariner

Was this a Christmas fixture

No L

Wales lite.

Rich. You make some interesting points. I think those who won't wear the poppy because of what happened on Bloody Sunday are missing the big picture.  First of all it's not an exclusive symbol, commemorating just Brits who made the sacrifice - there are many others from the Commonwealth concerned who (in common with millions of British servicemen did nothing to hurt the Irish).