League Table for the last 3 seasons

I have worked out the league table for the last 3 seasons. For all the teams which have been in the division for the last 3 years. We are second, but we have by far the best away record (100 points away compared to Kiddie's 86)! Carry on doing what we are doing and we are bound to get promoted one day because we are consistently one of the better sides.

Team       P     Pts
Kidderminster     123     211
Grimsby     124     209
Wrexham     121     182
Gateshead     122     179
Forest Green     121     179
Braintree Town     121     179
Woking     122     175
Macclesfield     121     175
Lincoln City     120     163
Alfreton Town     120     154
Nuneaton     122     146
Southport     118     137
Dartford     120     133

Pretty irrelevant really. I'd rather be Crawley, Fleetwood, Newport, Luton, Cambridge and all the other teams that don't appear in your table because they've all been promoted.

Exactly. We could be top of Rob's table for another 3 or 4 years. That might make him happy but it will be disaster for us. We have to get promoted this season IMO, or it is over.

Quoted from chaos33

Exactly. We could be top of Rob's table for another 3 or 4 years. That might make him happy but it will be disaster for us. We have to get promoted this season IMO, or it is over.

It depends what the budget is next season if we are still in this division. If we have a top 4 budget then we'll challenge at the top probably but if we had to set a budget  that reflected our true income then  it would certainly be a lot harder. We'd probably only get to the play-offs 1 in 3 or 1 in 4 seasons rather than more often that not like we are at the moment.

Quoted from GrimRob

I have worked out the league table for the last 3 seasons. For all the teams which have been in the division for the last 3 years. We are second, but we have by far the best away record (100 points away compared to Kiddie's 86)! Carry on doing what we are doing and we are bound to get promoted one day because we are consistently one of the better sides.

Team       P     Pts
Kidderminster     123     211
Grimsby     124     209
Wrexham     121     182
Gateshead     122     179
Forest Green     121     179
Braintree Town     121     179
Woking     122     175
Macclesfield     121     175
Lincoln City     120     163
Alfreton Town     120     154
Nuneaton     122     146
Southport     118     137
Dartford     120     133

God this is tiresome.

Youre main (only) argument seems to suggest if we NEVER change manager or anything at all we will be promoted at some future date, maybe 2,3,5 10 years.

You can improve your chances you know..  

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

God this is tiresome.

Youre main (only) argument seems to suggest if we NEVER change manager or anything at all we will be promoted at some future date, maybe 2,3,5 10 years.

You can improve your chances you know..  

I don't mind changing manager occasionally, but in practice we already have one of the best managers at this level. It would be hard to anyone else to be as consistent as PH, he's a steady perfomer. Someone more adventurous might improve our odds of a really good season where we might hit top spot, but the downside would be you'd be more likely to fail to finish in the top 5 altogether.

I'm just trying to show that over the long term we have been as good as anyone still in this division.

Quoted from GrimRob

It depends what the budget is next season if we are still in this division. If we have a top 4 budget then we'll challenge at the top probably but if we had to set a budget  that reflected our true income then  it would certainly be a lot harder. We'd probably only get to the play-offs 1 in 3 or 1 in 4 seasons rather than more often that not like we are at the moment.

Just curious here but saying we have a top 4 budget doesn't gurantee anything in football. I wonder what Burnleys budget was for last season?

Quoted from GrimRob

I have worked out the league table for the last 3 seasons. For all the teams which have been in the division for the last 3 years. We are second, but we have by far the best away record (100 points away compared to Kiddie's 86)! Carry on doing what we are doing and we are bound to get promoted one day because we are consistently one of the better sides.

Team       P     Pts
Kidderminster     123     211
Grimsby     124     209
Wrexham     121     182
Gateshead     122     179
Forest Green     121     179
Braintree Town     121     179
Woking     122     175
Macclesfield     121     175
Lincoln City     120     163
Alfreton Town     120     154
Nuneaton     122     146
Southport     118     137
Dartford     120     133

I suggest you look up the word 'Sycophant' Rob.  Quite frankly your sucking up to the person responsible for ruining the club I was once proud of is fu(king sickening.

Quoted from GorgeousGeorge

I suggest you look up the word 'Sycophant' Rob.  Quite frankly your sucking up to the person responsible for ruining the club I was once proud of is fu(king sickening.

Then again robs allowed his opinion and doesn't want to change things.

Where I wanted a change last Xmas and still waiting for it to happen

This table is as boring as the football.

Quoted from craigy

Just curious here but saying we have a top 4 budget doesn't gurantee anything in football. I wonder what Burnleys budget was for last season?

There are never any guarantees but at the end of the season the teams that are at the top are normally the ones with the higher budgets and those at the bottom are there because they have the lowest budgets. Lost seasons one or two will buck the trend

Quoted from GrimRob

I'm just trying to show that over the long term we have been as good as anyone still in this division.

you are missing the point by a country mile though....being as good as the rest is not being better than the rest which is what you need to get promoted.

Quoted from GorgeousGeorge

I suggest you look up the word 'Sycophant' Rob.  Quite frankly your sucking up to the person responsible for ruining the club I was once proud of is fu(king sickening.

Not sure who this person even is. I don't care who owns the club or manages it as long as they are rich for the former or competent for the latter.

I'd prefer the owner be rich AND competent and manager be competent AND have a Plan B.

....and the insults and lack of respect in the language used against someone who is just posting a thought/bit of research is becoming fu(king sickening
I'd rather read something different like this than the bile, vitriol and abuse posted by the usual suspects day in and day out

I used to enjoy the debate on The Fishy but it's just nasty most of the time now

All that table says Rob is that we are one of the better failures in the division. All the successful clubs are the ones promoted.

I wonder what a similar table would look like for the seasons the promoted sides spent in this division. I'd guess there's no correlation. Luton would've been near the top of it, Fleetwood and Newport whizzed through in less than 3 seasons. Cambridge were not top 5 finishers in their last 3 seasons apart from when they got promoted. Crawley were mid/lower half performers in the seasons before they got promoted. Wimbledon went up in 2 seasons. York, Mansfield....dunno.

Quoted from Stevie Saunders

....and the insults and lack of respect in the language used against someone who is just posting a thought/bit of research is becoming fu(king sickening
I'd rather read something different like this than the bile, vitriol and abuse posted by the usual suspects day in and day out

I used to enjoy the debate on The Fishy but it's just nasty most of the time now

This. Rob posts some data simply to suggest Hurst is no doing too badly results wise and receives dogs abuse. Virtually every other thread is the same handful of posters all agreeing with each other that Hurst is a moron as they have for months. The Ched Evans threads are about the only ones with thought provoking debate on each side.

Quoted from GrimRob

I don't mind changing manager occasionally, but in practice we already have one of the best managers at this level. It would be hard to anyone else to be as consistent as PH, he's a steady perfomer. Someone more adventurous might improve our odds of a really good season where we might hit top spot, but the downside would be you'd be more likely to fail to finish in the top 5 altogether.

I'm just trying to show that over the long term we have been as good as anyone still in this division.

In practice, if we don't get promoted this season, then we have a manager that is as good as the rest of the managers that were in the division as well. Our aim should be to be promoted, no less. We have the players to do it so why are we not pushing off it?? Oh yeah, it's the fans fault!

Quoted from GrimRob

I have worked out the league table for the last 3 seasons. For all the teams which have been in the division for the last 3 years. We are second, but we have by far the best away record (100 points away compared to Kiddie's 86)! Carry on doing what we are doing and we are bound to get promoted one day because we are consistently one of the better sides.

Team       P     Pts
Kidderminster     123     211
Grimsby     124     209
Wrexham     121     182
Gateshead     122     179
Forest Green     121     179
Braintree Town     121     179
Woking     122     175
Macclesfield     121     175
Lincoln City     120     163
Alfreton Town     120     154
Nuneaton     122     146
Southport     118     137
Dartford     120     133

Interesting data Rob but I am not convinced that we will go up any time soon and I base this on our current home form and how dominant in games we are.  If we were to get promoted, do you think we would be good enough to keep out of the bottom half of the table?

So this board is all about opinions is it?  All right here's mine.

I left Grimsby 30 years ago because of a general lack of ambition and opportunity in the area.  I have a handful of surviving family members and GTFC which serve as the only remaining links and therefore the only reasons to visit.  Each year that passes, sadly reduces family numbers and sees the credibility of the football club diminish further.  I used to be proud to talk of my home town club, not any more.

In recent years we've witnessed Stevenage, Crawley, Fleetwood et al get into the football league.  Achieved by setting clear targets, having the right finance in place and the right Manager.  We have no targets, the wrong type of finance and the wrong Manager.  The day we stop accepting second best and start using our collective influence to correct what is clearly wrong will be the day the club can finally start to progress.

Fenty's stranglehold has ruined the club, Fenty out.  My campaign starts today, who else is beyond unhappy?

Quoted from GorgeousGeorge

So this board is all about opinions is it?  All right here's mine.

I left Grimsby 30 years ago because of a general lack of ambition and opportunity in the area.  I have a handful of surviving family members and GTFC which serve as the only remaining links and therefore the only reasons to visit.  Each year that passes, sadly reduces family numbers and sees the credibility of the football club diminish further.  I used to be proud to talk of my home town club, not any more.

In recent years we've witnessed Stevenage, Crawley, Fleetwood et al get into the football league.  Achieved by setting clear targets, having the right finance in place and the right Manager.  We have no targets, the wrong type of finance and the wrong Manager.  The day we stop accepting second best and start using our collective influence to correct what is clearly wrong will be the day the club can finally start to progress.

Fenty's stranglehold has ruined the club, Fenty out.  My campaign starts today, who else is beyond unhappy?

That sounds like a good idea. To set a clear target of removing the primary source and continuity of our income. We'd be much better off trying to survive on the money we generate. We don't need all these expensive players, cheaper ones could do the job and if we went part time we might even go a step further and win the league .I'm in.

Quoted from GrimRob

That sounds like a good idea. To set a clear target of removing the primary source and continuity of our income. We'd be much better off trying to survive on the money we generate. We don't need all these expensive players, cheaper ones could do the job and if we went part time we might even go a step further and win the league .I'm in.

The primary source of income is the fans. Fenty put 75k into the club last year according to the accounts which is a small percentage of the gate receipts. Keep devaluing the product and you'll keep reducing the attendances meaning Mr Fenty will either need to spend more or go part-time.

Quoted from GrimRob

That sounds like a good idea. To set a clear target of removing the primary source and continuity of our income. We'd be much better off trying to survive on the money we generate. We don't need all these expensive players, cheaper ones could do the job and if we went part time we might even go a step further and win the league .I'm in.

Congratulations, your post sums up exactly the lack of ambition and acceptance of the unacceptable by far too many fans.  You've fully bought into the Fenty concept I'm afraid.  Delete my profile please, I have no wish to remain associated with a board that isn't representative of true feelings.  Send me an email to confirm.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

The primary source of income is the fans. Fenty put 75k into the club last year according to the accounts which is a small percentage of the gate receipts. Keep devaluing the product and you'll keep reducing the attendances meaning Mr Fenty will either need to spend more or go part-time.

But fans won't come in as big numbers to watch a mid-table side. If the gates did drop, and they haven't done so yet (we are still averaging 3600 this season in the league, slightly better than last) we have someone who will make up the shortfall. If we rely entirely on our own income, then if the crowds drop off because there's nothing to play for in the remainder of the season, then we're shafted. He might have only put 75K in last season but he's always there as a buffer in case we need more.

Quoted from GorgeousGeorge

Congratulations, your post sums up exactly the lack of ambition and acceptance of the unacceptable by far too many fans.  You've fully bought into the Fenty concept I'm afraid.  Delete my profile please, I have no wish to remain associated with a board that isn't representative of true feelings.  Send me an email to confirm.

Your revolution didn't last long. Always the same these people, no Plan B.

Quoted from GrimRob

Your revolution didn't last long. Always the same these people, no Plan B.

says him who supports a clown with no Plan A...........let alone

Quoted from Bruce Springsteen

says him who supports a clown with no Plan A...........let alone

Plan A is to have a competitive squad and budget, challenge near the top of the table, and hopefully get promoted.

Ignore him Rob

Quoted from GrimRob

But fans won't come in as big numbers to watch a mid-table side. If the gates did drop, and they haven't done so yet (we are still averaging 3600 this season in the league, slightly better than last) we have someone who will make up the shortfall. If we rely entirely on our own income, then if the crowds drop off because there's nothing to play for in the remainder of the season, then we're shafted. He might have only put 75K in last season but he's always there as a buffer in case we need more.

Our home record is the same as many mid-table sides. We drop too many points at home. Blame the negativity if you like, but the negativity comes from the way we start games and the boring, dull, dreary manager.

Quoted from GrimRob

Your revolution didn't last long. Always the same these people, no Plan B.

Very funny, thT made me chuckle Rob

See your point Rob and undersand where you are coming from.  I have always felt consistency is the key and we have struggled for changing managers too often.

The problem is more and more of us no longer believe Hurst will get us out of this league.  You seem to be suggesting the old "if you don't buy a ticket you don't win the raffle" argument.  Each year we are there or there abouts so eventually we must go up.  While there is some sense to that logic there is also other facts that undermine it.

Kiddy top that table but missed out on playoffs last year, currently in a similar position to us (i.e. miles off top spot) but currently outside the playoffs

Luton Town and Cambridge got promoted last year, the year before that they finihed 7th and 13th respectively.

Mansfield and Newport got promoted the year before that, and the season before they went up they finsihed 3rd and 19th respectively.

Fleetwood and York got promoted, before that after finishing 5th and 8th.  

I think this shows it is not about "always being there so we have a chance" but about being able to progress and improve so that eventually we are much better, we seem to have stabalised and stagnated and seem unable based on the last 2 years at least to take the extra step forward we need to.

I hope I am wrong and Hurst is the man to get us out of this league, I hope I am at Wembley lamenting my foolishness for doubting this analysis (I no longer think we have any chance of winning the league but again would love to be proved wrong.).  And equally I do not have a clear plan or solution for how to get us out of this position, however I think that Hurst has not shown us he is the man to get us out of here and history does not show that just hanging round the playoffs will get us there.  

Let's wait until the summer before making a decision on PH. I'm not blindly backing him at all. But he deserves a chance to take this season as far as he can. Every game we have played since he has been manager has been meaningful at the right end of the table. We haven't had a "dead rubber" meaningless game for years at the end of the season, we've never had to comtemplate the wrong end of the table for years. If he fails to get us promoted again then I'd be qute happy to see someone new as I think there would be the public appetite for it, hard as it will be to find someone who can take us the further mile on the same or lesser resources . But while he is here, rather than being at each others throats because we are "only" fourth, let's support the team like as fans we're meant to be doing!!! The next week is vital for us!

Quoted from GrimRob

Let's wait until the summer before making a decision on PH. I'm not blindly backing him at all. But he deserves a chance to take this season as far as he can. Every game we have played since he has been manager has been meaningful at the right end of the table. We haven't had a "dead rubber" meaningless game for years at the end of the season, we've never had to comtemplate the wrong end of the table for years. If he fails to get us promoted again then I'd be qute happy to see someone new as I think there would be the public appetite for it, hard as it will be to find someone who can take us the further mile on the same or lesser resources . But while he is here, rather than being at each others throats because we are "only" fourth, let's support the team like as fans we're meant to be doing!!! The next week is vital for us!

An all too rare piece of good sense within this seemingly never-ending pit of unjustified misery.

Quoted from Caesar

See your point Rob and undersand where you are coming from.  I have always felt consistency is the key and we have struggled for changing managers too often.

The problem is more and more of us no longer believe Hurst will get us out of this league.  You seem to be suggesting the old "if you don't buy a ticket you don't win the raffle" argument.  Each year we are there or there abouts so eventually we must go up.  While there is some sense to that logic there is also other facts that undermine it.

Kiddy top that table but missed out on playoffs last year, currently in a similar position to us (i.e. miles off top spot) but currently outside the playoffs

Luton Town and Cambridge got promoted last year, the year before that they finihed 7th and 13th respectively.

Mansfield and Newport got promoted the year before that, and the season before they went up they finsihed 3rd and 19th respectively.

Fleetwood and York got promoted, before that after finishing 5th and 8th.  

I think this shows it is not about "always being there so we have a chance" but about being able to progress and improve so that eventually we are much better, we seem to have stabalised and stagnated and seem unable based on the last 2 years at least to take the extra step forward we need to.

I hope I am wrong and Hurst is the man to get us out of this league, I hope I am at Wembley lamenting my foolishness for doubting this analysis (I no longer think we have any chance of winning the league but again would love to be proved wrong.).  And equally I do not have a clear plan or solution for how to get us out of this position, however I think that Hurst has not shown us he is the man to get us out of here and history does not show that just hanging round the playoffs will get us there.  

Excellent post and good points re the previous finishing positions of promoted sides

Quoted from GrimRob

Plan A is to have a competitive squad and budget, challenge near the top of the table, and hopefully get promoted.

Is that the same 'hopefully' we'll get a new stadium Rob  

In the olden days, people would just stop posting on a messageboard. Now they have to flounce off in some sort of Mariah Carey-esque way!

Quoted from Abdul19

In the olden days, people would just stop posting on a messageboard. Now they have to flounce off in some sort of Mariah Carey-esque way!

Not sure that I have ever (or will ever again) seen the words Mariah Carey on the Fishy.

Quoted from Caesar

See your point Rob and undersand where you are coming from.  I have always felt consistency is the key and we have struggled for changing managers too often.

The problem is more and more of us no longer believe Hurst will get us out of this league.  You seem to be suggesting the old "if you don't buy a ticket you don't win the raffle" argument.  Each year we are there or there abouts so eventually we must go up.  While there is some sense to that logic there is also other facts that undermine it.

Kiddy top that table but missed out on playoffs last year, currently in a similar position to us (i.e. miles off top spot) but currently outside the playoffs

Luton Town and Cambridge got promoted last year, the year before that they finihed 7th and 13th respectively.

Mansfield and Newport got promoted the year before that, and the season before they went up they finsihed 3rd and 19th respectively.

Fleetwood and York got promoted, before that after finishing 5th and 8th.  

I think this shows it is not about "always being there so we have a chance" but about being able to progress and improve so that eventually we are much better, we seem to have stabalised and stagnated and seem unable based on the last 2 years at least to take the extra step forward we need to.

I hope I am wrong and Hurst is the man to get us out of this league, I hope I am at Wembley lamenting my foolishness for doubting this analysis (I no longer think we have any chance of winning the league but again would love to be proved wrong.).  And equally I do not have a clear plan or solution for how to get us out of this position, however I think that Hurst has not shown us he is the man to get us out of here and history does not show that just hanging round the playoffs will get us there.  

Sums things up beautifully for me. We have made no progress and are not moving forward. So far but no further is what Hurst is about. He seemingly cannot take us to the next level and has this window to sort us out and crack on, otherwise it's bye bye.

Quoted from GrimRob

Let's wait until the summer before making a decision on PH. I'm not blindly backing him at all. But he deserves a chance to take this season as far as he can. Every game we have played since he has been manager has been meaningful at the right end of the table. We haven't had a "dead rubber" meaningless game for years at the end of the season, we've never had to comtemplate the wrong end of the table for years. If he fails to get us promoted again then I'd be qute happy to see someone new as I think there would be the public appetite for it, hard as it will be to find someone who can take us the further mile on the same or lesser resources . But while he is here, rather than being at each others throats because we are "only" fourth, let's support the team like as fans we're meant to be doing!!! The next week is vital for us!

I'm with you rob.if he doesn't take us up I think he will have to go. Helluva decision or gamble as to who will replace him.an almost Shiite or bust decision for fenty coming up in a few months time methinks

Quoted from GrimRob

Let's wait until the summer before making a decision on PH. I'm not blindly backing him at all. But he deserves a chance to take this season as far as he can. Every game we have played since he has been manager has been meaningful at the right end of the table. We haven't had a "dead rubber" meaningless game for years at the end of the season, we've never had to comtemplate the wrong end of the table for years. If he fails to get us promoted again then I'd be qute happy to see someone new as I think there would be the public appetite for it, hard as it will be to find someone who can take us the further mile on the same or lesser resources . But while he is here, rather than being at each others throats because we are "only" fourth, let's support the team like as fans we're meant to be doing!!! The next week is vital for us!

like Forza I agree with you to a large extent about this.  I will back him and the team as passionately as always till the end of the season, the constant sack Hurst threads are annoying, for one it is not going to happen before the end of the season barring disastorous results (i.e. slipping to 10th).  For a second I don't know who to replace him with that will improve our chances and for a third he has put together many elements of a quality squad so I feel we can back him until the end of the season.

The problem is no matter how much I try to believe in him, I cannot believe that he will get us out of this league.  We are just 2 weeks into January and I feel certain this time next year I am again going to be talking about getting out of the conference.  We have a quality squad that is rotated oddly and leads us to consecutive home defeats, being one of the few teams Telford and Dartford get points off, same story as I have seen people posting on here for years.  We are not making that progression.  I will back him and the team with all my might, I just do not believe it will make a difference.  And while the sack Hurst threads are annoying, and we should wait until the summer for a decision,  discussing what decisions we would make in hypothetical scenarios that some believe to be the case surely has merit?      

Quoted from ginnywings

Sums things up beautifully for me. We have made no progress and are not moving forward. So far but no further is what Hurst is about. He seemingly cannot take us to the next level and has this window to sort us out and crack on, otherwise it's bye bye.

Is it bye though? Not sure what it entails but isn't there a "rolling" contract in place?

Quoted from WOZOFGRIMSBY

Is it bye though? Not sure what it entails but isn't there a "rolling" contract in place?

As far as I understand, a rolling contract means that, if it's a year, you are entitled to a year's compo if it's terminated. If that's the case, PH will get the same if he goes tomorrow or in the summer.

Ok, so get him selling programmes on Harrington st corner or working his magic with a bog brush in the ponny

Quoted from WOZOFGRIMSBY

Ok, so get him selling programmes on Harrington st corner or working his magic with a bog brush in the ponny

Instead of sacking him and paying him a years salary as compo how about the club put him on gardening leave for a year?

His record is one which would attract potential employers so if anybody wants him they can take him on but no compo would be paid to PH by GTFC, other than the salary he is paid between being put on gardening leave and him being employed by another club.?

Quoted from Abdul19

In the olden days, people would just stop posting on a messageboard. Now they have to flounce off in some sort of Mariah Carey-esque way!

**chuckle**

A really good contribution made by Caesar in this thread summing up ( I reckon) the feelings of many frustrated Town fans.

Quoted from GrimRob

I have worked out the league table for the last 3 seasons. For all the teams which have been in the division for the last 3 years. We are second, but we have by far the best away record (100 points away compared to Kiddie's 86)! Carry on doing what we are doing and we are bound to get promoted one day because we are consistently one of the better sides.

Team       P     Pts
Kidderminster     123     211
Grimsby     124     209
Wrexham     121     182
Gateshead     122     179
Forest Green     121     179
Braintree Town     121     179
Woking     122     175
Macclesfield     121     175
Lincoln City     120     163
Alfreton Town     120     154
Nuneaton     122     146
Southport     118     137
Dartford     120     133

Alarmed at this Rob you are saying stick and one day we will get promoted.Hate to point out the obvious but with only one automatic spot and our average point total per year we would never finish better than 2nd so what are you basing the one day on?

Quoted from Caesar

See your point Rob and undersand where you are coming from.  I have always felt consistency is the key and we have struggled for changing managers too often.

The problem is more and more of us no longer believe Hurst will get us out of this league.  You seem to be suggesting the old "if you don't buy a ticket you don't win the raffle" argument.  Each year we are there or there abouts so eventually we must go up.  While there is some sense to that logic there is also other facts that undermine it.

Kiddy top that table but missed out on playoffs last year, currently in a similar position to us (i.e. miles off top spot) but currently outside the playoffs

Luton Town and Cambridge got promoted last year, the year before that they finihed 7th and 13th respectively.

Mansfield and Newport got promoted the year before that, and the season before they went up they finsihed 3rd and 19th respectively.

Fleetwood and York got promoted, before that after finishing 5th and 8th.  

I think this shows it is not about "always being there so we have a chance" but about being able to progress and improve so that eventually we are much better, we seem to have stabalised and stagnated and seem unable based on the last 2 years at least to take the extra step forward we need to.

I hope I am wrong and Hurst is the man to get us out of this league, I hope I am at Wembley lamenting my foolishness for doubting this analysis (I no longer think we have any chance of winning the league but again would love to be proved wrong.).  And equally I do not have a clear plan or solution for how to get us out of this position, however I think that Hurst has not shown us he is the man to get us out of here and history does not show that just hanging round the playoffs will get us there.  

Excellently put.