JADED

Buckley said on BBC Hullberside that the team looked mentally drained. Whoever Shorty & Shouty bring in needs to inject purpose and competition into the side. We can't be looking tired and drained at this crucial stage of the season!
We weren't tired and drained in 97/98 when we played more matches in English football than anyone else, went to Wembley twice and won and knocked out Leceister & Sheff Wed in the league cup!
We are on a serious slide here and may have missed a huge chance to go up this season.
Who can answer these questions?
Is Hearn ready?
Is Brodie a good signing?
Is Lewis  a good signing?
Is Devitt a good signing?
Are Shorty & Shouty good enough for league management?
Are we good enough to go up?
Do too many players have their eye on Wembley?
What credentials does Artus have to go straight into midfield to replace Deggsy and Dizzo?
Is Buckley still the messiah?

they have proved your mate wrong already.

Quoted from the solster

A friend of mine said he was not convinced about Scott & Hurst. I can see what he means. Buckley said on BBC Hullberside

yeahbutnobut

Quoted from the solster

We weren't tired and drained in 97/98 when we played more matches in English football than anyone else, went to Wembley twice and won and knocked out Leceister & Sheff Wed in the league cup!

Is Buckley still the messiah?

Season started 9th August and finished 24th May as opposed to a possible 11th August to the 5th May. Think pitches are just a lot worse in this league too.
No Buckley is not the messiah he is simply a very good football manager from the past. Don't forget that season he had the money from the sale of Mendonca and Oster. Hence the reason we could spend all the money on players that we did.

I would not consider signing Brodie or Devitt. Brodie is a wild card with a strange attitude and is neither a good target man nor a prolific goal scorer. Devitt looks no better than when he was here before. Still too lightweight, can do something spectacular occasionally, but not enough overall contribution. Not sure about the shop. He clearly is not a goal scorer, but might be useful alongside Hearn for example.
Given the injuries Artus was the obvious choice today and did quite well.
S & H can achieve success , whether in the league is yet to be tested.
I was surprised to see Hearn make an appearance, but he seemed ok. Although understandably rusty. Must not over play him until he is fully right.
Wembley is an easy excuse, but I am not convinced that was the problem today.
In order to win the play offs we will have to regain our confidence and get our goal scoring back. I am concerned about injuries to key players and really hope they can get fit again for the run in, could be a crucial issue.

Who can answer these questions?
Is Hearn ready? Yes he played today? An has been in rehab for a long time and been given the all clear by medical staff, physio and last of all management team.
Is Brodie a good signing? Debatable or sure, had 1 or 2 good games and I can recall 2 games he's single handedly win for us, including with a 1-0 win but I prefer him in the wide forward role apprised to central. If use him off the bench though Cook and Hannah ahead for me.
Is Lewis  a good signing? Quite simply.. NO HAHA!
Is Devitt a good signing? Absolutely. He was brilliant against Mansfield and is a different class when he is found in space, wingers need service as strikers do. He'll come good and really hope we get him on a permanent.
Are Shorty & Shouty good enough for league management? OF CORSE! Built a very good challenging squad.. We've come a long way from Arthur, Ridley, Kempson, Garner, Bore, Elding, Spencer, Eagle etc lol. Play offs almost certain and trophy final, best management we've had in a while and with previous success and promotions they have what it takes.
Are we good enough to go up? Possibly, possibly not, but it's not always are we good enough... Wrexham are good enough and they've missed out season after season, sometimes it just isn't to be. But well see!
Do too many players have their eye on Wembley? I can't read minds but I'd probably as a player be thinking "if I play well I might get a start, apposed to.. I CBA with this game I want wembley to hurry round..
What credentials does Artus have to go straight into midfield to replace Deggsy and Dizzo? . With Wilson on the bench... I'd say more experience, a pretty good game to win ratio with town, he was fully rested in our busy schedule ad was carrying no knocks.
Is Buckley still the messiah? Lol
[/quote]

Quoted from the solster

Buckley said on BBC Hullberside that the team looked mentally drained. Whoever Shorty & Shouty bring in needs to inject purpose and competition into the side. We can't be looking tired and drained at this crucial stage of the season!
We weren't tired and drained in 97/98 when we played more matches in English football than anyone else, went to Wembley twice and won and knocked out Leceister & Sheff Wed in the league cup!
We are on a serious slide here and may have missed a huge chance to go up this season.
Who can answer these questions?
Is Hearn ready?
Is Brodie a good signing?
Is Lewis  a good signing?
Is Devitt a good signing?
Are Shorty & Shouty good enough for league management?
Are we good enough to go up?
Do too many players have their eye on Wembley?
What credentials does Artus have to go straight into midfield to replace Deggsy and Dizzo?
Is Buckley still the messiah?

Tune in next week when all these questions will be answered on.....SOAP!......for those of a certain age.  

Changed a bit from the original post!!

Quoted from springstomind

Do too many players have their eye on Wembley? I can't read minds but I'd probably as a player be thinking "if I play well I might get a start, apposed to.. I CBA with this game I want wembley to hurry round..

That comment brought to mind the possibility that players might have been ducking out of tackles or hanging back because they don't want to be injured before 'the big day'.  Can't say it crossed my mind during the game, but I suppose it might be a reason why we seemed to be second to nearly every ball??  Not sure.  Gutted about Shaun Pearson's injury by the way.  Hope it's not serious.

Quoted from the solster

Who can answer these questions?
Is Hearn ready?
Is Brodie a good signing?
Is Lewis  a good signing?
Is Devitt a good signing?
Are Shorty & Shouty good enough for league management?
Are we good enough to go up?
Do too many players have their eye on Wembley?
What credentials does Artus have to go straight into midfield to replace Deggsy and Dizzo?
Is Buckley still the messiah?

I suspect everyone can answer the questions (but you will get 100s of different combinations of answers) Here for what its worth is my version
Hearn - no
Brodie - no (panic signing)
Lewis - no (panic signing)
Devitt - no (promised much but hasn't / can't deliver)
Shorty and Shouty - no (but then they're not going to be league managers - well not at BP anyway)
Good enough to go up - no(where near)
Eyes on Wembley - yes (no doubt about this one a MAJOR factor IMO)
Artus - don't know
Buckley - no (he's an old man living on past glories and a pain in the @rse on Humberside)

Ahhh, Soap! Man that was funny!

Quoted from the solster

Buckley said on BBC Hullberside that the team looked mentally drained. Whoever Shorty & Shouty bring in needs to inject purpose and competition into the side. We can't be looking tired and drained at this crucial stage of the season!
We weren't tired and drained in 97/98 when we played more matches in English football than anyone else, went to Wembley twice and won and knocked out Leceister & Sheff Wed in the league cup!
We are on a serious slide here and may have missed a huge chance to go up this season.
Who can answer these questions?
Is Hearn ready?
Is Brodie a good signing?
Is Lewis  a good signing?
Is Devitt a good signing?
Are Shorty & Shouty good enough for league management?
Are we good enough to go up?
Do too many players have their eye on Wembley?
What credentials does Artus have to go straight into midfield to replace Deggsy and Dizzo?
Is Buckley still the messiah?

in for a penny in for a pound, what i think ?

hearn, not yet fully ready but not very far off at all.
brodie, yes a good signing, hos record at this level is very good after all.
devitt, a decent replacement when neilsen went (come on who else was available)
lewis, not seen in the flesh but record suggests not )maybe a bit harsh on him as he hasnt had enough of an oportunity yet) dont think we neede him.
shorty and shouty.  yes they can manage in the proffessional league, they are progressing each season and have done a solid job at town.
are we good enough, debatable, very borderline maybe just a little short at present.
too many thinking of wembley, no i dont think so just a slight loss of confidence
quite celar artus not on a par with disley and niven, am not an artus fan and neither i suspect are the managers
alan buckley, an important manager in our history, certainly a better manager for town than he is a commentator, c'mon alan be positive for once.

If Buckley said we look mentally drained it's probably a good description IMO.
But to be fair I don't think you can be too critical.
Played some tough games and not had much luck, players are bound to become slightly weary and demotivated (especially when they're losing and things aren't going well).
But perhaps it's even more reason to bring in others who are motivated...

[quote=3739]What credentials does Artus have to go straight into midfield to replace Deggsy and Dizzo?
Disley was injured ?
Is Deggsy Derek Niven ? Injured too...

Artus did well today - was not being "jaded" a factor I wonder ?

Who are these 'others' we can bring in and who 'are motivated'?

I don't think it's motivation we lack. I think these are a commited bunch of players it seems, but there are other factors that I can't put my finger on exactly but which have most to do with quality.

What do I know? I really felt there would be a response from a galvanised GTFC today, and I thought it would carry into Tuesday night. I felt confident to proclaim '2 victories coming up!'. I gave the players and management too much credit. We have deteriorated badly in 2013. After this amount of time I should have known better than to allow (perhaps irrational?) optimism to overcome my long experience of following Town. Really disappointed and scratching my head.....

The people saying Brodie was a 'panic signing' are wrong, it's clear why Brodie was signed, at the time, the deal to sign Ross Hannah didn't look like it was going to come off so the managers decided to plug the gap with a striker with a proven track record in this division

Quoted from tashee69

Season started 9th August and finished 24th May as opposed to a possible 11th August to the 5th May. Think pitches are just a lot worse in this league too.No Buckley is not the messiah he is simply a very good football manager from the past. Don't forget that season he had the money from the sale of Mendonca and Oster. Hence the reason we could spend all the money on players that we did.

Does anyone else think our pitch looks worse this season than it has for many a season?

Quoted from GYinScuntland

Does anyone else think our pitch looks worse this season than it has for many a season?

Was thinking this today.

Quoted from chaos33

Who are these 'others' we can bring in and who 'are motivated'?

I'm saying the ones not in the team. e.g. Artus (today), LJL, Southwell, Thanoj SHOULD be motivated to win a place in the team because they're not currently in the team.

But whether you pick them or not is another matter !

It's not just about "commitment" it's about CONFIDENCE and FATIGUE. (as I'm sure you know !)

Haven't thought of team selection yet.
But there's an argument you can't just keep hammering the same players to perform (if they're not performing) forever without a break or a lift no matter how good they are.

Quite ironic you talk about "quality" though.
You said we shouldn't rest players AT HOME and said we should play the strongest team in a "must win" game.
Yet you said we could go to Nuneaton and could win whichever team we played !!!  
So much for quality !  

Quoted from GYinScuntland

Does anyone else think our pitch looks worse this season than it has for many a season?

We have had a record amount of rain this past year. The water table is very high and BP looks remarkably good considering.

Quoted from ginnywings

We have had a record amount of rain this past year. The water table is very high and BP looks remarkably good considering.

A reasoned arguement and valid point, it still makes you wonder though.
The pitch at BP has always been recognised as being near perfect no matter what the weather conditions.

Quoted from Ipswin

I suspect everyone can answer the questions (but you will get 100s of different combinations of answers) Here for what its worth is my version
Hearn - no
Brodie - no (panic signing)
Lewis - no (panic signing)
Devitt - no (promised much but hasn't / can't deliver)
Shorty and Shouty - no (but then they're not going to be league managers - well not at BP anyway)
Good enough to go up - no(where near)
Eyes on Wembley - yes (no doubt about this one a MAJOR factor IMO)
Artus - don't know
Buckley - no (he's an old man living on past glories and a pain in the @rse on Humberside)

'he's an old man living on past glories' Where is your evidence for this statement?
Sort your self out man. His opinion is very valid as a co-commentator because he has a great knowledge of the game from the inside. He knows more about the game than all the people on the fishy put together.

Dont forget that his 'past glories' are the best times this club has ever seen and I dont think they will come again until we can find another Manager of his class.
    

Is Hearn ready? Certainly not fully.
Is Brodie a good signing? So so.
Is Lewis  a good signing? Too early to say
Is Devitt a good signing? Reasonably.
Are Shorty & Shouty good enough for league management? Yes but they need to get their team "playing" more.
Are we good enough to go up? We will be !
Do too many players have their eye on Wembley? No idea but I doubt it tbh.
What credentials does Artus have to go straight into midfield to replace Deggsy and Dizzo? He's fit for starters ! Impressed in training.
Is Buckley still the messiah? No he's a legend + a good commentator. 80's is the messiah !  

Quoted from 1600

I'm saying the ones not in the team. e.g. Artus (today), LJL, Southwell, Thanoj SHOULD be motivated to win a place in the team because they're not currently in the team.

But whether you pick them or not is another matter !

It's not just about "commitment" it's about CONFIDENCE and FATIGUE. (as I'm sure you know !)

Haven't thought of team selection yet.
But there's an argument you can't just keep hammering the same players to perform (if they're not performing) forever without a break or a lift no matter how good they are.

Quite ironic you talk about "quality" though.
You said we shouldn't rest players AT HOME and said we should play the strongest team in a "must win" game.
Yet you said we could go to Nuneaton and could win whichever team we played !!!  
So much for quality !  

No I didn't say that, or at least, that's your interpretation of what I meant, which is wrong. I didn't say we shouldn't rest players at home (think you are obsessed). I said that anyone who needed to be rested should be, and therefore wouldn't be part of the 'strongest team'. The Cambridge game was a 'must win' in my view. The Nuneaton game hasn't been played yet. The apparent quality of our players is not currently evident, so I'll give you that. I was wrong in my belief that we would win these two games and feel niaive for predicting that we would, based on quality that is not showing itself, or indeed, isn't there at all.

You're right, let's recap shall we ?

Quoted from chaos33

I just feel that we will be so primed in these next two games that our will to win from our superior quality players will secure victories.

http://www.thefishy.co.uk/cgi-bin/forum/Blah.pl?m-1363378802//s-8/#num8

Quoted from chaos33

Yes tomorrow is a must win, which is why we can't afford to rest players who don't want/need to be rested. As each game comes along we have to choose the strongest team available.

http://www.thefishy.co.uk/cgi-bin/forum/Blah.pl?m-1363378802/s6/#num6

Quoted from chaos33

I'll presume Disley is unfit (sadly). My team would be 4-4-2:

McKeown
Hatton
Miller
Pearson
Thomas

Devitt
Marshall
Thanoj
Naylor

Cook
Hannah

Subs: Brodie, Wood, Wilson, Colbeck, LJL

We will win tomorrow.

As for Tuesday night? One game at a time and horses for courses. I wouldn't be holding any player in reserve with an eye on Tuesday. Tomorrow is everything. We will win on Tuesday too, whatever the selection.

http://www.thefishy.co.uk/cgi-bin/forum/Blah.pl?m-1363358700/s-9/#num9

So out of interest and WITH HINDSIGHT now that we've lost...  

- Would you have rested Cook for Tuesday ?
- Was I right to hold back Cook for Tuesday ?
- Would you have stuck with the team you picked ? (that Hannah apart who was injured, lost)

While I personally think this "strongest team" term can mean anything anyone might imagine, I guess most would believe it to mean something like the team you actually picked.

Anyway, an ounce of credit to you, at least you had the balls to pick a team !

I sincerely hope you're right and we can win on Tuesday whoever plays. (though I wouldn't send the youth team myself)
But I assume it means you won't be questioning or objecting to any selection ideas anyone else has, "whatever the selection"...  

Look, you've just proved me right!!

I said - 'we can't afford to rest players who don't need/want to be rested'. I standby that. I don't need to have my words quoted back at me and told what it is I mean, ok. Its patronising in the extreme.

Only the Managers know who needs to be rested, and if they want to pick their 'best team' on the day, they'll ignore fatigue at their peril. You are missing the point. I am not saying always choose your 'best' players regardless of their condition. Ok?!You seem to advocate continual rotation for fatigue manaagement - and we'll never know if that would work or not. I suspect you'd never have any rhythm and you'd always have a handful of pi$$ed off players. It's a flawed theory IMO, but you keep harping on about it if you find it satisfying in some way. I am saying - the strongest team available means choosing the best players in the best condition and frame of mind. Ok. Please get that.
The Cambridge game is a 'must win' - yes it was, if we wanted to keep in touch with the title race. I said we would win. I was wrong. What do you want, a written apology to the Telegraph and a Freddo Frog for you beacuse you pointed out my error? I was thinking positively.

I said we would win that game and win the Nuneaton game because we would be fired up, and because we have superior quality players - as I've said - I'll give you that beacuse I was half wrong. I seem to have over-estimated our quality levels don't I. The other fact is - none of us could foresee all of the injuries and levels of tiredness.

What are you actually saying now?

As regards your questions:

I don't know if Cook needs to be rested. Isn't it rather straightforward and you're unnecessarily overcomplicating it?: If Cook needs to be rested because he's fatigued - he should be rested. Ok. Same goes for any of the others, unless there's nobody else to play in that position in the squad. If Cook was tired before yesterday's game, he shouldn't have been used. I don't observe training, and neither do you. By all accounts he seemed to look in need of a rest yesterday, so maybe the managers made a mistake. Perhaps you could e-mail them and tell them about your rotation theory and how they should be making 5 changes from the Mansfield team and bringing in proven, fresh players like LJL and Southwell for key matches!
I standby my other statement - I don't believe in keeping fit/fresh players in reserve for the next match when they're needed in the current one. Not if they are 'must win'. We don't have that luxury really now anyway do we with the injuries we have. There is a world of difference between 'saving' and 'resting' players. If a player needs a rest in order to be fresh in a few days time or a week's time, then rest him. If that's what you're saying, I agree. There again, if he is tired and needs a rest, he wouldn't count in my 'choose the strongest team available' theory anyway. Do you see?

I would choose Tuesday's team based on who was fit (that's the reality of it) and who was fresh. We don't have the luxury of too much choice now do we.

I felt we would win at Nuneaton and I don't know now. Player for player, and in theory (I say this so you don't hammer me on it), we have better quality players than them throughout the squad so ought to go there and win, but hey - positive thinking isn't realism, and realism on here gets called 'doom and gloom'. Take your pick. I wouldn't like to say who should play and what the outcome might be. My prediction skills are wobbly.

Quoted from chaos33

If Cook was tired before yesterday's game, he shouldn't have been used. I don't observe training, and neither do you.

A few people on here said Cook should have been rested BEFORE that game.
How come THEY managed to show foresight and think ahead that he needed a rest ?
And yes, I guess they don't even observe training either ! (I certainly don't !)

Although for me, it wasn't even about some of the match reports I suspected were correct.  
Obviously he wouldn't be as fresh for Tuesday, whether he was in need of a rest before KO on Saturday or not !

Not a case of beating the managers, I said it was a mega-tough decision myself.

But you can poo poo playing a weaker looking team (though you've already said we can play anyone and win at Nuneaton !) at HOME before and AFTER the event (once we've lost) all you like.

Had we KNOWN we'd have LOST playing the team that played, what possible reason is there be to still insist we still should have done it ?
Or that it was still a mistake to rest certain players for Tuesday ?
Had we KNOWN we'd have LOST, we might as well have played the youth team and saved everyone fresh and ready for Tuesday ! (IMO)

Managers don't have a crystal ball, but you're still arguing the toss with one !

You can miss the point all you want, but it's pretty obvious !  

Quoted from chaos33

Perhaps you could e-mail them and tell them about your rotation theory and how they should be making 5 changes from the Mansfield team and bringing in proven, fresh players like LJL and Southwell for key matches!

Yeah like they've never made changes before lol.

Was Nuneaton not a "key match" ?
Do you forget you said "We will win on Tuesday too, whatever the selection." ?!!!!

So what are you saying ?
Now we've lost it was still a bad idea not to rest Cook vs Cambridge yet any old team can still win at Nuneaton ?  
Stick Artus at CB shall we ? Hearn in goal ?

If you ask me, none of your voice of reason logic makes any sense whatseover.  

Quoted from TAGG

'he's an old man living on past glories' Where is your evidence for this statement?
Sort your self out man. His opinion is very valid as a co-commentator because he has a great knowledge of the game from the inside. He knows more about the game than all the people on the fishy put together.

Dont forget that his 'past glories' are the best times this club has ever seen and I dont think they will come again until we can find another Manager of his class.
    

But that is exactly what he is - an old man living on past glories (he's certainly not doing anything nowadays is he?) - and do you think Humberside would have him as a co-commentator were it not for his history at GTFC?

As a co-commentator he is boring, monosyllabic and that accent is awful - I make no judgement on his knowledge

Where he ranks in the order of Town managers is a matter of opinion and like an @rsehole, everybody has one

Quoted from 1600

A few people on here said Cook should have been rested BEFORE that game.
How come THEY managed to show foresight and think ahead that he needed a rest ?
And yes, I guess they don't even observe training either ! (I certainly don't !)

Although for me, it wasn't even about some of the match reports I suspected were correct.  
Obviously he wouldn't be as fresh for Tuesday, whether he was in need of a rest before KO on Saturday or not !

Not a case of beating the managers, I said it was a mega-tough decision myself.

But you can poo poo playing a weaker looking team (though you've already said we can play anyone and win at Nuneaton !) at HOME before and AFTER the event (once we've lost) all you like.

Had we KNOWN we'd have LOST playing the team that played, what possible reason is there be to still insist we still should have done it ?
Or that it was still a mistake to rest certain players for Tuesday ?
Had we KNOWN we'd have LOST, we might as well have played the youth team and saved everyone fresh and ready for Tuesday ! (IMO)

Managers don't have a crystal ball, but you're still arguing the toss with one !

You can miss the point all you want, but it's pretty obvious !  

Yeah like they've never made changes before lol.

Was Nuneaton not a "key match" ?
Do you forget you said "We will win on Tuesday too, whatever the selection." ?!!!!

So what are you saying ?
Now we've lost it was still a bad idea not to rest Cook vs Cambridge yet any old team can still win at Nuneaton ?  
Stick Artus at CB shall we ? Hearn in goal ?

If you ask me, none of your voice of reason logic makes any sense whatseover.  

Sorry, I couldn't have been clearer. Some of that stuff above is just mumbo jumbo to me, so I can't really respond even if I wanted to, and I fear we could go round and round in circles ad infinitum. Probably best to just draw a line as it's become quite tedious.

Quoted from Ipswin

But that is exactly what he is - an old man living on past glories (he's certainly not doing anything nowadays is he?) - and do you think Humberside would have him as a co-commentator were it not for his history at GTFC?

As a co-commentator he is boring, monosyllabic and that accent is awful - I make no judgement on his knowledge

Where he ranks in the order of Town managers is a matter of opinion and like an @rsehole, everybody has one

'living on past glories' Still dont see any evidence from you for this statement. Are you saying he goes around telling every one that will listen about the trophy and promotions hes won all the time??????
'he's certainly not doing anything nowadays is he' no because hes retired FFS
'co-commentator were it not for his history' Obviously not, why else do they have him. Do you think it would be better to find a co-commentator for Town games who has a history with Exeter for example?
'boring, monosyllabic and that accent is awful' Hes not everybodys cup of tea but there ye go that's a matter of taste, I have to turn Humberside off when Lowther is on. As for the accent he was born with as you are yours.
'Where he ranks in the order of Town managers is a matter of opinion' Dont talk b0ll0cks. Name another Town manager that has had more promotions, trophy's and good times?

You obviously you dont like the bloke for some reason which is fair enough but his record as Towns Manager is second to none and like I said his qualifications as a co-commentator are obvious.  

Quoted from ginnywings

We have had a record amount of rain this past year. The water table is very high and BP looks remarkably good considering.

Would you say the water is higher up the table than we are.    UTM

Quoted from gaz57

Would you say the water is higher up the table than we are.    UTM

A few weeks ago, no i wouldn't.

Now it probably is.

Incidentally, it is currently pissing down and my garden is ankle deep in water. The Nuneaton game may be called off as i can't imagine they have a great pitch. Even more fixture congestion if it is.