Football about to implode?

With the news today about Rangers and Portsmouth, and the well documented recent troubles at Darlo and Kettering, I can't help thinking that the game is in serious trouble, much worse than we thought.

Several clubs have had troubles in recent times; Leeds spending money they didn't have (well, they gambled on making the CL) and fell through the leagues when it went mammaries up. Leicester, Rovrum, Luton, Bournemouth, Southend, and many others have been, or been close to, administration, many of them more than once.

QPR recently sacked their manager, as they "can't afford" to go down.  Hull had players on huge contracts when they got relegated, with no clauses for the eventuality of relegation, and it nearly bankrupted them.  Newcastle had similar problems when they went down.

More and more clubs are overspending chasing the dream.  Then when iit goes mammaries up, the fans suffer, along with local businesses.

The case against Rangers could be a landmark.  They owe close to £50m in "dodged taxes" relating to payments made to players in the 90's, into offshore accounts.  They can't be the only club that has done this, therefore if HMRC win, it could open the floodgates and many more clubs could be in serious financial trouble.

There's plenty, plenty enough money in football to go around. The problems are it's monstrously top-heavy and there's too much outside money thrown at it. The only way it will survive long term is if there are strong, stringent, and tightly-monitored rules put in place that mean clubs can only spend what they generate. This stops clubs going for broke and means they can't get into trouble when a rich backer pulls the plug/dies/runs them into the ground.

Is football any more likely to implode than it was, say, 5 years ago?

Quoted from Abdul19

Is football any more likely to implode than it was, say, 5 years ago?

IMO yes.

Here is a list of Admins, CVA's etc http://footballmanagement.wordpress.com/no-of-clubs/

and for info the article it came from http://footballmanagement.wordpress.com/2012/02/13/that-elusive-number-of-insolvent-football-clubs/

Quoted from immariner

There's plenty, plenty enough money in football to go around. The problems are it's monstrously top-heavy and there's too much outside money thrown at it. The only way it will survive long term is if there are strong, stringent, and tightly-monitored rules put in place that mean clubs can only spend what they generate. This stops clubs going for broke and means they can't get into trouble when a rich backer pulls the plug/dies/runs them into the ground.

It's called the diarrhoea effect. The more money is poured into the game - TV and foreign hobby owners the more sh*t comes out from it - mainly in form of the diveballers who play in the premiership and their agents.

Quoted from Abdul19

Is football any more likely to implode than it was, say, 5 years ago?

Dunno but my relationship just has, and booked Blackpool Travelodge for Fleetwood away. Oh well, not the best looker.
ps- shares going Blackpool south, LMFAO

Football is bollocksed but while sky and scudamore are running the game it won't go away. They'll simply lift the carpet, brush all the problems undercut and just throw more non existent money at it.

Too many people believe everything sky,experts etc say. The best league, biggest clubs, highest earners, biggest crowds etc. In reality some of those are true but they have also led to the game struggling. Attendances aren't going up. Throughout all the leagues pretty much every stadium has empty seats and I'd hazard a guess that 95% of professional clubs in this country are in a financial mess.

Football in England is now like Americas economy, the too one percent take a massive chunk of the money while the rest feed off scraps. Will it change? Probably not. Small clubs will continue to go out of business and clubs like Portsmouth who have taken the urine too many times and continue to do so will be bailed out to save the premier league and football league the embarrassment.

We are miles behind in youth development and we don't really compete at international level, quarter finals is not good enough for a country like England and all it's so called amazing players and teams. This year we've so far struggled in Europe really.

Do I care? No, I care about gtfc as do we all. We can't change the game, the crooks the clowns the blinkered vision of those in charge need to, but they won't! They think everything is rosey...

At the end of the day the F.A only care about the top 10 in the Premiership and until a couple of them are in serious financial difficulty not alot is going to happen.

Rangers are taking the urine aren't they?

Sign Daniel Cousin a few days ago (on however many thousand pounds per week) then the next thing they are applying for administration because they owe HMRC over £50 million in tax. How the hell has their debt to HMRC been allowed to get to that level when they spend £8million chasing Honest Harry for £30k.

I don't think it will ever totally implode but there are far too many full time professional clubs.

No country has so many and if the sick and the lame are thinned out by bankrupcy and closure what is left may well be much leaner fitter and league.

i think rangers will neogiate a deal to prevent them going into administration if they went under it would be equally bad for the scottish game

Rangers now in administration, proper according to 5 Live.

Quoted from lawless29

i think rangers will neogiate a deal to prevent them going into administration if they went under it would be equally bad for the scottish game

Don't ever get a job as a lawyer will you

Quoted from Abdul19

Is football any more likely to implode than it was, say, 5 years ago?

No, much less so IMO.
The four recent examples are due to alleged dishonesty rather than good old-fashioned bad management.
The crooks are gradually being forced out of football.

To sort this sorry mess out, it will not alter a thing until a premiershite team goes bust, they should look at the way things are done in Germany.

Clubs have their books audited every 2 years, if they do not owe anything ( not in debt)they are allowed to carry on. If they are in debt they are kicked down a division or kicked out of the league.

If after the books have been audited and they pass the audit, they can then go out and spend £100 million if they so wish, however they have only got 2 years to pay it off before their next audit.

One question I would like to ask is how have the HRMC allowed clubs to get into this mess with the tax, any other business would be getting calls and letters from HRMC if they are 7 days late in paying their dues.

HRMC and the government need to look no further than the professional clubs , alledgedly owing between them all approx £1 billion, if they collect this amount in then they could stop crucifying the working man and making us go with out. They should also stop giving money away abroad to countries that do not need it or want( India declared this 2 weeks ago).

More money needs to come down to the lower leagues to help them especially with youth set ups etc.

The sooner the so called top teams join a European league and leave the premiershite then football would be better for it as you would have players that want to play and not just for the money. There would be more money available for the lesser clubs and lower leagues.
Just my opinion!!!!

Agree about a euroleague. It could replace the current champions league and let the 'normal' teams compete in their own countries. It is pretty easy to predict which teams will finish in the top places in most countries. Time for the elite to fkoff.

If Grimsby got promoted to the premiership, not one of us would be calling it the premiershite or saying we don't want to be there.

Quoted from Dan

If When Grimsby got get promoted to the premiership, not one of us would be calling it the premiershite or saying we don't want to be there.

Where there's hope...


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Exodus - Movement of Fish People

Quoted from Abdul19

Is football any more likely to implode than it was, say, 5 years ago?

It's getting perilously close. Five years ago money was far easy to come by so investors were prevalent; the credit crisis has put paid to that. More importantly in this time of austerity the HMRC has finally found some guts when tackling football's finances. In the past they would not have delved so hard into football's arrangements but when every penny counts they now will - take the legal challenge against the 'football creditors first' rule of the FL. If they win that expect to see the taxman go after many more clubs and rightly so.

Interesting/baffling that despite all this, no PL or FL club have gone bust since 1992.

my friend who is a rangers fan told me its the best thing that could happen to rangers if they went into admin,cos its only THE HMRC that they owe 50mill too,, i was too shocked to even talk to him after that statement,, am fairly sure the other creditors of rangers would think it would be for the best...

Quoted from lawsman

To sort this sorry mess out, it will not alter a thing until a premiershite team goes bust, they should look at the way things are done in Germany.

Clubs have their books audited every 2 years, if they do not owe anything ( not in debt)they are allowed to carry on. If they are in debt they are kicked down a division or kicked out of the league.

If after the books have been audited and they pass the audit, they can then go out and spend £100 million if they so wish, however they have only got 2 years to pay it off before their next audit.

One question I would like to ask is how have the HRMC allowed clubs to get into this mess with the tax, any other business would be getting calls and letters from HRMC if they are 7 days late in paying their dues.

HRMC and the government need to look no further than the professional clubs , alledgedly owing between them all approx £1 billion, if they collect this amount in then they could stop crucifying the working man and making us go with out. They should also stop giving money away abroad to countries that do not need it or want( India declared this 2 weeks ago).

More money needs to come down to the lower leagues to help them especially with youth set ups etc.

The sooner the so called top teams join a European league and leave the premiershite then football would be better for it as you would have players that want to play and not just for the money. There would be more money available for the lesser clubs and lower leagues.
Just my opinion!!!!

The HMRC treat football clubs just like any other business. Items like PAYE and VAT are not collected in real time, ie when they accrue from the paying of wages or from the sale of goods but periodically; they are paid monthly, quarterly, half-yearly or annually. The decision is down to the business so long as HMRC gets its' money. Other items such as corporation tax are only paid once the club has declared its' annual figures. Even then it can be paid over time.

The letters and legal action only start if the tax is not paid after the agreed payment date, which can be many months after the event. The temptation is that by then club may have spent it.

Quoted from ross1cod

my friend who is a rangers fan told me its the best thing that could happen to rangers if they went into admin,cos its only THE HMRC that they owe 50mill too,, i was too shocked to even talk to him after that statement,, am fairly sure the other creditors of rangers would think it would be for the best...

Ignoring the fact that we all have to pay tax you are quite right in that the club has many other everyday creditors. It's biggest creditor as it stands (the club have yet to find out the verdict of the tax case) is the owner Craig Whyte. He purchased Rangers for just £1 on the proviso he took on the clubs £18m debts, mainly to the Bank of Scotland. This he did, repaying the bank, but securing the loans against the clubs assets.

Ergo, bizarrely thanks to administration he stands to lose his £1 investment but as a result of the 'football creditor first' rule will see his most, if not all, of his £18m loan repaid. He is free, should he wish, to form a new shell company and make a bid, along with any other parties of course, for the remains of Rangers.

It does appear that the HMRC pushed for administration today not on the basis of the possible outcome of this court case but rather that the club has not paid £9m in tax due since Whyte took over. Mmmm...

It amazes me that a club pulling 50k fans is running at a £10m/year loss.  Something has been very wrong andhas been for years.

Quoted from kingofthekippers

The temptation is that by then club may have spent it.

Which is exactly what happened at Grimsby Town, we collected it but simply didn't bother to pay it over to the Revenue.

Incidentally unlike England and Wales where HMRC is at the bottom of the list of creditors it has emerged today that in Scotland they come first! Big problem for Rangers I think - they might have to actually pay rather than walk away smirking.

Perhaps Fenty could negotiate a repayment plan like he did for us - 10 bob a week for eternity?

I've always thought the TV will ultimately kill football. Eventually TV will get so good that there will be no need to attend games for a lot of people. This in turn will mean the atmosphere which is what makes the game exciting rather than the actual action will decline and make it less attractive to watch on television. In 50 years time it might be a fringe activity for a few remaining fanatics.

Quoted from Ipswin

Which is exactly what happened at Grimsby Town, we collected it but simply didn't bother to pay it over to the Revenue.Incidentally unlike England and Wales where HMRC is at the bottom of the list of creditors it has emerged today that in Scotland they come first! Big problem for Rangers I think - they might have to actually pay rather than walk away smirking.

Perhaps Fenty could negotiate a repayment plan like he did for us - 10 bob a week for eternity?

Not strictly true. We put off payment of tax intending to use the revenue from ITV Digital to cover this. When ITV Digital ceased to exist we were left with egg on our face and a big tax bill. Very bad board decisions IMO .