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Some Positives?

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140381
April 22, 2024, 9:44pm
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The main positive for me, and it’s come out this week, is that it’s now clear what went wrong this season. Also, We aren’t looking  for a new manager and starting at square one again, and everyone now seems to be on the same page.
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gtfc_chris
April 22, 2024, 9:56pm
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Quoted from forza ivano


Genuine question.
I'm no tactical genius, but isn't it possible to use this base, which the players are obviously comfortable with (and half of them are contracted next season remember), and tweak or adapt it to make it more pleasing on the eye?


I think it's possible to make football work anyway you want it to. It's only a guess that he'll revert to a back 4 again but obviously I'm not DA so he may very well stick with this and tweak as you've said. Part of my guesswork with the boards game model, even though I don't think they'll be this specific, is that they'll base it on things they enjoyed from yesteryear Town teams like creative wingers.
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forza ivano
April 22, 2024, 9:57pm

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Quoted from 140381
The main positive for me, and it’s come out this week, is that it’s now clear what went wrong this season. Also, We aren’t looking  for a new manager and starting at square one again, and everyone now seems to be on the same page.


That's a good point which I haven't seen made before
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DB
April 23, 2024, 8:49am
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The first positive for me is that we are still in L2 and have don't under our own steam. The new season will allow Artell to sign players he wants, as opposed to inheriting a team, which will probably mean that we will play the 'Grimsby Way'!

A clean sheet to work with and an opportunity to progress.


You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
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diehardmariner
April 23, 2024, 9:43am
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Quoted from mariner91


3-5-2 when set up properly with excellent wing backs who are capable of getting up and down the flanks can be a really good formation in a footballing sense. My concern with it though is that you're reliant on just one player each side for your width who has to have the required ability with the ball, stamina and ability to defend at a consistently very high level in order for it to work well. Essentially two of your better players have to be the wing backs e.g Notts County with Jodi Jones or you're always going to be sacrificing some attacking intent from out wide. If we've got a very average budget for the division we're in which is likely, then the chances of finding a suitable player that we can afford for both flanks is probably quite low. Then what happens if one of them gets a long term injury? The chances of us being able to afford four good players capable of playing wing back is virtually nil. So in that situation you're a bit stuck. Do you just persevere and have no width or threat going forward on that side? Or do you change formation? If you change formation what do you change it to? If you're planning on setting up as a 3-5-2 as your main formation then do you sign wingers? Do you sign them if you're often not going to use them more often than not and if you don't sign them then you're very limited to what you can change your formation to?

Equally if you're going to really have the wing backs pushing forward then you'd better hope that your full backs are very good and very mobile. Again, Notts County are a perfect example of the issues with this as their defence is the worst in the league because they're so often over run. This is in spite of having some very good wing backs and central midfielders in front of them.

It's not an easy problem to solve. It's helped to shore us up and ensure our L2 survival but it's a difficult formation to set up perfectly. An easy formation to either become very difficult to break down or to allow lots of players to get forward  (Us as the former, Notts County the latter) but getting the balance right is very hard.


Very much the Chris Wilder approach but there's also the potential and I could definitely see Artell liking it of having overlapping centre-backs.  Both Maher and Mullarkey have done it when playing in a back 3, not so sure it's really in Rodgers' skillset though.  Attacking wise it lessens the burden on one man but is an absolute nightmare to defend against.  The wingback cuts inside which causes overload in the middle, so the winger/fullback has to come inside but then it's a case of who tracks the roaming centreback.  Reece Hall-Johnson was outstanding at this when Jolley used this system.  

Having a genuine screener of the defence really helps this system as they give that level of protection that frees up one of the centrebacks to go.  Thompson is a very, very good screener of his defence and has the intelligence to move into areas that need occupying.  Your other cover option is the wingback on the other side drops in it becomes a lopsided defence.

I like this approach and would be happy if Artell set up with this as his main system.  But more than than any other system, it requires a fair few players with very defined roles and skills.  Your wingbacks need to more than just runners as they're cutting inside and need to release the overlapper, plus they need to be able to drop in and be proper defenders.  Your centrebacks need to be able to overlap at speed and then deliver decent crosses.  Then you need a holding midfielder good enough to read the game and fill in, as an addition to their own role.  As said, Thompson would be excellent at that.  If he's not available though it would be a huge gap.
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arryarryarry
April 23, 2024, 9:56am
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Quoted from TownSNAFU5
To add:  we had to wait until June, when we won the Promotion Final, to know what division we would be in the next season.

We know this 6 weeks earlier, giving more time to plan and look at players.  Knowing the budget as well.

We have a last game without any pressure.  Can say goodbye to some players and/or play some youngsters or fringe players.


Erm................................didn't we have that at the start of this season and look where it got us?
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arryarryarry
April 23, 2024, 9:59am
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Quoted from DB
The first positive for me is that we are still in L2 and have don't under our own steam. The new season will allow Artell to sign players he wants, as opposed to inheriting a team, which will probably mean that we will play the 'Grimsby Way'!

A clean sheet to work with and an opportunity to progress.


Please explain the "Grimsby Way"
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LocalLadGTFC
April 23, 2024, 10:02am
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Quoted from diehardmariner


Very much the Chris Wilder approach but there's also the potential and I could definitely see Artell liking it of having overlapping centre-backs.  Both Maher and Mullarkey have done it when playing in a back 3, not so sure it's really in Rodgers' skillset though.  Attacking wise it lessens the burden on one man but is an absolute nightmare to defend against.  The wingback cuts inside which causes overload in the middle, so the winger/fullback has to come inside but then it's a case of who tracks the roaming centreback.  Reece Hall-Johnson was outstanding at this when Jolley used this system.  

Having a genuine screener of the defence really helps this system as they give that level of protection that frees up one of the centrebacks to go.  Thompson is a very, very good screener of his defence and has the intelligence to move into areas that need occupying.  Your other cover option is the wingback on the other side drops in it becomes a lopsided defence.

I like this approach and would be happy if Artell set up with this as his main system.  But more than than any other system, it requires a fair few players with very defined roles and skills.  Your wingbacks need to more than just runners as they're cutting inside and need to release the overlapper, plus they need to be able to drop in and be proper defenders.  Your centrebacks need to be able to overlap at speed and then deliver decent crosses.  Then you need a holding midfielder good enough to read the game and fill in, as an addition to their own role.  As said, Thompson would be excellent at that.  If he's not available though it would be a huge gap.


You say about Rodgers but the thing most of us raved about when he signed was his ability to bring the ball out of defence, we've seen it in recent weeks that he's often seen overlapping Charles on the left hand side. I'd actually say he's better than Maher at joining in the attacks but Maher is better on the ball.
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arryarryarry
April 23, 2024, 10:16am
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Quoted from TownSNAFU5
We survived a dire season and just avoided relegation.

We should have another healthy total of season tickets sold.  Money up front for new players, good support and a good atmosphere.

Thus is a positive as this level of support/income is better than many Div 2 clubs.  Even if we struggle the club still has the income.


Because we were so poor there will be a wholesale clear out of players.  This gives us a great opportunity to start afresh.  Massive pressure to get the recruitment right.

Stevenage and Crawley had massive improvements after being in the same position.

Finishing mid-table and the temptation is to stick with the same average players.

We have gone the longest without a 20 goal striker in the league.  Chesterfield paid good money for a striker and were clear at the top 2/3 years ago. When he got injured their season imploded.

Blackburn might get relegated.  Yet they have a striker on 31 goals - no one has scored more in the 4 divisions.

It is more important to spread the goals around the team. Reduced risk of injury to a key striker.  Keeps the opposition guessing.


Same response as my previous post, we had all this at the start of this season.

We have had 3 sets of managers, a shed load of players and they couldn't even manage 2 league wins in a row. This season nearly ended in a disaster and I don't want it repeated next season. We need a huge clear out of players, backroom staff and yes Artell as well as I don't trust him with what he might do. Reading several comments from Crewe fans he apparently took over a really good squad of players that didn't need improving and he got them promoted. He then started bringing in his choice of players and he took them down.

I would like him to prove me wrong but it is a big gamble as I don't see the owners throwing tens of thousands of pounds on that many new better players.

I would add that when Hurst was sacked we were 4th from bottom, yet here we are with players that Artell brought in and still 4th from bottom.
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HerveJosse
April 23, 2024, 10:16am
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Quoted from DB
The first positive for me is that we are still in L2 and have don't under our own steam. The new season will allow Artell to sign players he wants, as opposed to inheriting a team, which will probably mean that we will play the 'Grimsby Way'!

A clean sheet to work with and an opportunity to progress.


Is it clear what went wrong last year or is this a narrative that gives those who are here now a fresh start ( including the owners)and those who have gone carry the can ? A common situation in any business. Truth is we don’t know but  the optimists will happily convince themselves the narrative is correct for now at least.
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