Torquay and Rochdale in trouble

Torquay to enter administration and Rochdale seemingly close, having been hit hard by relegation into non-league (trigger warning: Guardian link below).

I can’t help but think that with the current football and macro-economic climate, a third relegation into the abyss might well be the one that hits hardest, especially if we’ve budgeted on next season’s bumper EFL bounty.

This can’t be stressed enough; relegation must be avoided at all costs.

I have a friend that is a diehard Torquay fan - it's not just relegation to the National League that has led to this (but it is a factor). The club has been badly managed for some years and the owner maintains something has happened in the last few weeks that has been the tipping point to force them to stop funding the club.

That said, the owner has a history of overpromising and under delivering with a number of projects they've been involved in.

It doesn't follow automatically that relegation to the NL would cause this at Town but it would be highly undesirable.

Quoted from BobbyCummingsTackle

I have a friend that is a diehard Torquay fan - it's not just relegation to the National League that has led to this (but it is a factor). The club has been badly managed for some years and the owner maintains something has happened in the last few weeks that has been the tipping point to force them to stop funding the club.

That said, the owner has a history of overpromising and under delivering with a number of projects they've been involved in.

It doesn't follow automatically that relegation to the NL would cause this at Town but it would be highly undesirable.

Whilst I’m possibly guilty of a tiny bit of conflation of Torquay and Rochdale’s circumstances into our own potential short-term future, the point I’m trying to highlight is real. If we go down, we lose the following:

Premier League solidarity money - £872,000
EFL central / TV money - £625,000

Golly can / will correct me on those exact numbers, but they get a lot bigger next season compared to this, that’s for sure. It’s also not inconceivable that STs / gates could fall by around 50% if we went down (and struggled). That’s roughly another £1m right there, so you’re very quickly looking at a £2.5m hole in the P&L versus what we might have budgeted.

Any parachute money we might get will be largely eaten up by losses in other ancillary income streams (sponsorship, merchandise, match day food and drink sales).

Given we’re going to have a number of potentially unwanted players on long-term contracts (and potentially on League Two wages if there aren’t any relegation clauses), at best it’s going to be an incredibly difficult base for the club to approach next season from, and at worst it could be absolutely catastrophic.

We absolutely must not go down.

Quoted from Poojah

Whilst I’m possibly guilty of a tiny bit of conflation of Torquay and Rochdale’s circumstances into our own potential short-term future, the point I’m trying to highlight is real. If we go down, we lose the following:

Premier League solidarity money - £872,000
EFL central / TV money - £625,000

Golly can / will correct me on those exact numbers, but they get a lot bigger next season compared to this, that’s for sure. It’s also not inconceivable that STs / gates could fall by around 50% if we went down (and struggled). That’s roughly another £1m right there, so you’re very quickly looking at a £2.5m hole in the P&L versus what we might have budgeted.

Any parachute money we might get will be largely eaten up by losses in other ancillary income streams (sponsorship, merchandise, match day food and drink sales).

Given we’re going to have a number of potentially unwanted players on long-term contracts (and potentially on League Two wages if there aren’t any relegation clauses), at best it’s going to be an incredibly difficult base for the club to approach next season from, and at worst it could be absolutely catastrophic.

We absolutely must not go down.

Yep, wasn't arguing with you and agree with you but there's more going on at Torquay than just relegation over the past 2 years (as if that wasn't enough).

Quoted from Poojah

Whilst I’m possibly guilty of a tiny bit of conflation of Torquay and Rochdale’s circumstances into our own potential short-term future, the point I’m trying to highlight is real. If we go down, we lose the following:

Premier League solidarity money - £872,000
EFL central / TV money - £625,000

Golly can / will correct me on those exact numbers, but they get a lot bigger next season compared to this, that’s for sure. It’s also not inconceivable that STs / gates could fall by around 50% if we went down (and struggled). That’s roughly another £1m right there, so you’re very quickly looking at a £2.5m hole in the P&L versus what we might have budgeted.

Any parachute money we might get will be largely eaten up by losses in other ancillary income streams (sponsorship, merchandise, match day food and drink sales).

Given we’re going to have a number of potentially unwanted players on long-term contracts (and potentially on League Two wages if there aren’t any relegation clauses), at best it’s going to be an incredibly difficult base for the club to approach next season from, and at worst it could be absolutely catastrophic.

We absolutely must not go down.

The Prem didn’t pay that money this season, so no guarantee next season either…..

This will be us in a season or two after Artell relegates us and Stockwood and Pettit decide they don't want to put any more money in.

Quoted from Poojah

Whilst I’m possibly guilty of a tiny bit of conflation of Torquay and Rochdale’s circumstances into our own potential short-term future, the point I’m trying to highlight is real. If we go down, we lose the following:

Premier League solidarity money - £872,000
EFL central / TV money - £625,000

Golly can / will correct me on those exact numbers, but they get a lot bigger next season compared to this, that’s for sure. It’s also not inconceivable that STs / gates could fall by around 50% if we went down (and struggled). That’s roughly another £1m right there, so you’re very quickly looking at a £2.5m hole in the P&L versus what we might have budgeted.

Any parachute money we might get will be largely eaten up by losses in other ancillary income streams (sponsorship, merchandise, match day food and drink sales).

Given we’re going to have a number of potentially unwanted players on long-term contracts (and potentially on League Two wages if there aren’t any relegation clauses), at best it’s going to be an incredibly difficult base for the club to approach next season from, and at worst it could be absolutely catastrophic.

We absolutely must not go down.

Which is why the owners must forget dreams of sustainability  this season and splash the cash to try and keep us up. If there are any quality out of contract players out there bring them in before it’s too late.

Quoted from Poojah

Whilst I’m possibly guilty of a tiny bit of conflation of Torquay and Rochdale’s circumstances into our own potential short-term future, the point I’m trying to highlight is real. If we go down, we lose the following:

Premier League solidarity money - £872,000
EFL central / TV money - £625,000

Golly can / will correct me on those exact numbers, but they get a lot bigger next season compared to this, that’s for sure. It’s also not inconceivable that STs / gates could fall by around 50% if we went down (and struggled). That’s roughly another £1m right there, so you’re very quickly looking at a £2.5m hole in the P&L versus what we might have budgeted.

Any parachute money we might get will be largely eaten up by losses in other ancillary income streams (sponsorship, merchandise, match day food and drink sales).

Given we’re going to have a number of potentially unwanted players on long-term contracts (and potentially on League Two wages if there aren’t any relegation clauses), at best it’s going to be an incredibly difficult base for the club to approach next season from, and at worst it could be absolutely catastrophic.

We absolutely must not go down.

I’ve not properly researched what the EFL TV and PL Solidarity money is next season apart from multiplying what they are by increases quoted in the press.

But those figures will be good approximate figures ahead of the PL finally agreeing a funding deal with the EFL to avoid a football regulator.

Personally I think we need a radical rethink of English football and its structure.

The PL will only fund the championship properly and appropriately to the money in the PL if it becomes a PL2 in the same way that 2.Bundesiga is in Germany. This might mean a reduction in teams in the top 2 divisions

The EFL should incorporate the National League as a League 3 to maintain itself as a 72 team competition.

The 3 levels below that (National League North & South, Northern Premier League, Southern League & Isthmian League) should be streamlined into 2 competitions. A Northern & Southern Pyramid Leagues each with a Premier Division, 2 Division Ones and 4 Division Twos.

That would fix 2 major flaws with the current set up. The Championship funding issue and the National League being a competition made up of a professional top division and a mainly semi-pro 2nd tier.

It would also mean a more natural funding flow in the professional game so that the financial cliff edges are eased and the sort of drops in revenue experienced by Rochdale are removed.

I appreciate the 92 is sacred for many but the reality is we now have 5 professional divisions of 116 clubs with only a handful of semi-pro clubs in the 5th tier deviating from that.

Quoted from RonMariner

Which is why the owners must forget dreams of sustainability  this season and splash the cash to try and keep us up. If there are any quality out of contract players out there bring them in before it’s too late.

I don't get this theory about a free agent doming in who would be able to hit the ground running and make a difference. If they've not been playing they'd be nowhere near the fitness levels to get up to speed.

If the straws are there, they will be clutched.

Quoted from Heisenberg

The Prem didn’t pay that money this season, so no guarantee next season either…..

Yes they have. And next season is agreed too.

The current argument in the PL is over future payment structure for their next TV deal period which starts in August 2025.

They are arguing over how the money should be distributed and for what purpose. i.e. will it be given to EFL clubs to spend as they like or will some of it be pooled and given as grants for infrastructure projects- like new training grounds.

The other issues they are arguing about is where the money comes from. The smaller clubs are sticking together to force the greedy 6/clubs in receipt of UCL money to pay the lions share.

The money side of it has been agreed. Everything else is up in the air.

Quoted from Poojah

Whilst I’m possibly guilty of a tiny bit of conflation of Torquay and Rochdale’s circumstances into our own potential short-term future, the point I’m trying to highlight is real. If we go down, we lose the following:

Premier League solidarity money - £872,000
EFL central / TV money - £625,000

Golly can / will correct me on those exact numbers, but they get a lot bigger next season compared to this, that’s for sure. It’s also not inconceivable that STs / gates could fall by around 50% if we went down (and struggled). That’s roughly another £1m right there, so you’re very quickly looking at a £2.5m hole in the P&L versus what we might have budgeted.

Any parachute money we might get will be largely eaten up by losses in other ancillary income streams (sponsorship, merchandise, match day food and drink sales).

Given we’re going to have a number of potentially unwanted players on long-term contracts (and potentially on League Two wages if there aren’t any relegation clauses), at best it’s going to be an incredibly difficult base for the club to approach next season from, and at worst it could be absolutely catastrophic.

We absolutely must not go down.

It's next season the games/kick off times get scrambled all over the place (in the league)  ?