AB/PH comparisons

Quoted from diehardmariner

Buckley never took over a side midway through a season needing to rebuild a toxic squad on a shoestring though did he?

Hurst made mistakes that season, no doubt about it.  But it was largely a poisoned chalice.  Hurst, Buckley, even Pep wouldn't have kept us up that season.

Quoted from diehardmariner

It's very difficult to argue against the points picked up under Holloway and then those that Hurst didn't get, especially first of all.

But the only way I can try and describe it is that Holloway was in a moving car with his foot on the pedal that's motoring along ok, but ahead of it the road is about to end with a sheer cliff drop into the sea coming up.   As Holloway jumps out the car, Hurst jumps in with his first task of trying to perform an almighty doughnut turn  to keep us out the sea and also moving along the road at the same time.

Of course that turn is even harder because Holloway's crap is still in the car and it's impacting on the weight distribution of what Hurst is trying to achieve.

I don't think it's as simple a case that had we continued to do the same we would have continued with picking up a point a game and stayed safe.  The rot had set in and Holloway, the flipping charlatan that he was/is, got out at the right time.  Points are points, regardless of when you pick them up.  But his final seven games saw us win 1, draw 1 and lose 5.  That win came against a Scunthorpe side that were only saved from relegation by the fact that we ran out of time.

Holloway's last game in charge was the 2-1 home defeat to Bradford.  We went into that game with Montel Gibson and Ira Jackson Jr up  top, Elliott Bennett on the wing, Luke Spokes in midfield and Danny Preston at left-back.  It was only a few games previous that Holloway had dropped his first choice 'keeper for the goalkeeping coach, who then let a pea-roller through his legs away at Southend.

Quoted from Poojah

There’s no doubt that Holloway and the then board made a needless hash of the summer of 2020, as well as the weeks that followed, but I always struggle to get my head around the idea we were a lost cause when Hurst took over. We were a mess, but a salvageable one.

In Holloway’s final 10 games he took 10 points (the same record we’ll have this season if we lose on Saturday). In his previous 9 games that season he’d taken 9 points, so averaging a steady point per game, and had us six points clear of the relegation zone. This isn’t a defence of Holloway by the way, I hate that cúnt almost as palpably as I love Paul Hurst. We were terrible. But there were several teams even more terrible than us, hence we we had never been in the bottom two at this juncture.

In Hurst’s first 10 games, we took just 4 points (0.4 PPG). In his next 10, that increased to 13 points (1.3 PPG), our best spell of the season in which we only lost 1 game. But it was too late; those first 10 games and too many draws in the next 10 killed us. As we beat Bolton at home at the end of that run, we still found ourselves 7 points and a massive goal difference swing from safety. We won 2 and lost 3 of our last 5, the final of which we were already down.

There’s no doubt that Hurst came in and tried to do the right things, to bring in better players and better characters. And to a large extent, he did (Stefan Payne the obvious exception). But he simply didn’t have the time or the points cushion to complete the kind of transformation he attempted, and what happened is history.

In a parallel universe he brings in fewer players and sticks more with what he had, and we stay up. But then we wouldn’t have had those memories…

Quoted from 1mickylyons

His 3rd spell he took over mid season and with a very young squad got us to safety and a Wembley appearance vs Franchise scum.

Quoted from Poojah

I just feel, and perhaps I'm speaking too much from a position of hindsight, the absolution of Hurst for his share of that season is slightly unmerited.

Quoted from diehardmariner

Oh, I'm with you. 100%.

Bringing Waterfall on away at Carlisle was the Parslow moment that really cost us.  It invited pressure, needlessly and let them back into the game.  It denied us a much needed win and momentum.   Had we got that win I fancied it would have taken us into the home game with Colchester, a side we needed to drag into the mixer, with confidence.  Instead we were lower than a snakes belly and ground out a 0-0.  Was too many draws in that time full stop.

Being too cautious in the first few months, Harrogate away a particular lo-light of just offering absolutely nothing going forward.

The reluctance to use George Williams, especially after his performance away at Mansfield when he looked ready to take things by the scruff of the neck.

Quoted from diehardmariner

He had good six weeks extra and six games (appointed early November).  Whilst there was a youthful element of the squad with the likes of Bore, North, Hegarty and Taylor coming through he also had a very good experienced core to the squad.  Whittle, Bolland, Toner, Croft, Macca and Gary Jones all key players from the 2006 season under Slade.  

The loss of the likes of Mildenhall, Rob Jones and others in the summer was a blow, as were the injuries to Reddy and Cohen but he still inherited a good squad with a decent top-up coming through the youth set-up.  To my memory there wasn't any bad eggs in that group either. Certainly can't imagine he arrived at Cheapside find the balls were square and a non-contract defender was doing shuttle runs in front of The Pier.  That he only signed 3 players initially on loan (Paterson, Till and Pulis) suggests it didn't need the critical surgery that Hurst was left with.

I think Wembley was the season after too.

Don't get me wrong, Buckley did a good job in turning the tide that season because, unfortunately, he inherited a bit of a mess from Graham Rodger who was completely out of his depth.  But there's a bit of a mess and then there's an absolute excrement show.

Quoted from Tommy

A bit late reading the thread and as I was reading through it I thought of the year Buckley came in for his 3rd stint. What I'd add to the comparison of that season when AB took over, and PH taking over before taking us down, is that Buckley took what was a bang-average team and went on a run of 7 wins in 8 games kickstarted by the 6-0 win at Boston.

Quoted from Poojah

Not quite 7 from 8, but we won 10 and drew 2 of our opening 13 games of the 21/22 season (before things famously went for a massive shít until the nights started to pull out again). It was a very un-Hursty start to the season, mind.