Charles Vernam

Been told he's allowed to leave Bradford on loan, we're also one of the clubs interested in him.

Would be an absolutely cracking signing if we can pull it off

[img]https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0356/7629/1131/products/C1246B6A-8988-4289-980E-2876180692B7.jpg?v=1595523546[/img]

Why would he come here? Hurst never played him while we had him on loan, theres no reason for him to believe it would be different a 2nd time round

Let's have another look at that goal anyway...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mhs-yiyPyDg

Quoted from sonofmadeleymariner

Why would he come here? Hurst never played him while we had him on loan, theres no reason for him to believe it would be different a 2nd time round

Errrr… Vernam was a Slade signing.

Quoted from sonofmadeleymariner

Why would he come here? Hurst never played him while we had him on loan, theres no reason for him to believe it would be different a 2nd time round

Hurst was managing Shrewsbury at the time...

Quoted from jamesgtfc

Hurst was managing Shrewsbury at the time...

That’s how much Hurst disliked Vernam. So much that he left GTFC 16 months before we signed him to avoid working with him.

McAree and Vernam, would like to see that happen.

Quoted from sonofmadeleymariner

Why would he come here? Hurst never played him while we had him on loan, theres no reason for him to believe it would be different a 2nd time round

Is this another one of those made up things from the folks so desperately trying to find stuff to beat Hurst with…

Was he not a ‘Jolley’ signing, injury prone and a mercenary? after three good games.

Like a lot of players they get better when they’ve gone!!

Fact: in his Hurst’s first spell as manager James Alabi and Damian Spencer made a combined 9 appearances more than our all-time top goal scorer Pat Glover. THAT’S how misguided he is.

Quoted from aldi_01

Is this another one of those made up things from the folks so desperately trying to find stuff to beat Hurst with…

He’s probably mistaking him for Dean Henderson. So easy to get those 2 confused!

Quoted from GibMariner

Was he not a ‘Jolley’ signing, injury prone and a mercenary? after three good games.

Like a lot of players they get better when they’ve gone!!

A Slade loan signing but got injured and hardly featured. Jolley then signed him when he was released.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

A Slade loan signing but got injured and hardly featured. Jolley then signed him when he was released.

So if I understand you correctly, you’re saying it was all Bignot’s fault?

Didn't think he was very good other than a couple of games where he was unplayable. He then became a Roy of the Rovers type trying to do everything himself, then covid struck. Burton and Bradford clearly don't rate him, so think it was more a flash in the pan than anything else.

Quoted from sonofmadeleymariner

Why would he come here? Hurst never played him while we had him on loan, theres no reason for him to believe it would be different a 2nd time round

As I have repeatedly told you. Think before you post. Anyway, don't think he will be allowed to leave while Bradford are recruiting a new manager.

Quoted from sonofmadeleymariner

Why would he come here? Hurst never played him while we had him on loan, theres no reason for him to believe it would be different a 2nd time round

FFS!!!

I'd have him on a loan until the end of the season in a flash. He has lacked consistency but when he's on it he's shown he is a couple of levels above where we currently are. What's the risk?

He would do better in NL though.

Quoted from Poojah

So if I understand you correctly, you’re saying it was all Bignot’s fault?

Bignot wasn’t interested as he isn’t a central midfielder.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Bignot wasn’t interested as he isn’t a central midfielder.

You are in fact correct. He had him down as a right-back, didn’t he?

Quoted from TAGG

McAree and Vernam, would like to see that happen.

Pervert!

Quoted from Poojah

You are in fact correct. He had him down as a right-back, didn’t he?

Bignot was so unimpressed he sent him to Coventry.

Quoted from aldi_01

Is this another one of those made up things from the folks so desperately trying to find stuff to beat Hurst with…

Rubbish- it’s all true. Learn your GTFC history mate.

Hurst launched those chicken wings at Ivano too…

Over-rated and inconsistent. He has a decent game only once in 6/7 games.

Wasn’t Hurst in for him during Jan last season and he didn’t fancy a relegation battle? Sure Hurst alluded to something along those lines in a Humberside interview this time last year, and he didn’t sound right keen on him.

That said; if we can get him it’s better than a kick in the árse, so might as well. More than likely end up at Chesterfield.

As far as I recall, was fairly rubbish apart from a decent run of games after Christmas in his last season with us. He barely featured on loan, signed for us and was rubbish, got farmed out to Chorley for a month which everyone here was fine with because he didn't do male private, scored a few goals there, came back, took like 4-5 games to score a goal then another 6-7 after that went on a run of scoring a few goals.

Players always seem to get better when they leave and some prefer we'd sign former players all the time. Suppose at least he had a run of 3-4 decent games in a row and not just 1 good game against a side that couldn't be bothered like JJ Hooper did. Then when he was gone people were acting like he was the second coming of Jesus and we'd made a huge mistake.

Is it his local connections that make some people want him, or do they think that this current line up would be improved?

Or just that he is available for loan?

Chesterfield's spending would make them favourites, with Wrexham close behind.

Yes, some good games, and some goals, while here, so does that jump him above the last 2 loan forwards on current form with Bradford?

From memory.. had an injury early season, fairly innocuous performances for a few games like the rest of the team, frozen out of the team, went out on loan and did well, returned, got a run of games and was pretty much our best player..

I'd like him back.. and if we started next season with him, McAtee, JMD, Sousa, Taylor plus AN Other to choose from for our front four, we would look fairly strong in that department for this level..

Probably go to Chesterfield or Wrexham though I guess..

Don't want him

I’d have him back - has obvious qualities ..was Bradfords stand out player start of season. Would have him over Sousa every day of the week.

i like to read a book, but when a chapter comes around again, i seem to get fed up, and this seems to be a recital of the Omar Bogle saga. Can we not do repeats of past chapters and let us get on with what we have. We have just signed another new striker, and a lot of you have condemned him without seeing him, ffs, give the lad a chance, and forget about past players, who had one good game and scored a worldly goal, we need to move on and get into the playoff places. Some of you guys on here p*ss me off with your little quirks and want to change the topic. Its a norm on here. Stay with topics, or p*ss off, end of "!!

Another goal and assist for Bogle last night. The bloke would’ve got 30 stood on his head in this division.

Quoted from ska face

Another goal and assist for Bogle last night. The bloke would’ve got 30 stood on his head in this division.

All bicycle kicks.

Hartlepool fans all absolutely raving about him so far.

Are people thinking Bogle would’ve been a poor signing?🙈

I’d take Chas back without a doubt his ability to run directly at defenders with the ball at his feet would cause opponents at this level real problems.

Even a 1 good game in 4 Vernam would be better than anything else in our current midfield…

When was the last player who returned for a second spell (or in the case of Vernam, a third spell) actually a successful signing? Pearson has been alright this season but I wouldn't say he's been outstanding.

Quoted from jamesgtfc

When was the last player who returned for a second spell (or in the case of Vernam, a third spell) actually a successful signing? Pearson has been alright this season but I wouldn't say he's been outstanding.

Matt Tees was one that’s for sure.

Quoted from GrimExile

Matt Tees was one that’s for sure.

Beat me to it

In the unfinished season, Charles would have probably been Player of the Year and most were disappointed when he signed for Burton in the league above so I find it pretty bizarre that some don’t want him back especially if Wright and Maguire-Drew remain injured.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Beat me to it

👍👍👍

Paul Groves didn't pan out too badly when he returned for the 97/98 season.

Quoted from jamesgtfc

When was the last player who returned for a second spell (or in the case of Vernam, a third spell) actually a successful signing? Pearson has been alright this season but I wouldn't say he's been outstanding.

John Oster. Erm, Dean Sinclair 😉

Anyway, I'd give a vital organ* to have a player of the quality of Vernam at GTFC.



* I wouldn't really, how would that come about?

Vernam would fit in very well with our 4-3-3 formation. He never looked properly comfortable as an out and out wide player to me but his ability to run with the ball would pay dividends in this division, especially with our current setup.

This assumes he's somewhere near the form when he left us.

Not sure if this would be good or not


But there’s a lad I reckon he’s after at York ………

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

Paul Groves didn't pan out too badly when he returned for the 97/98 season.

Groves is just a physical phenomenon. Like Butterfield said the other day, he was staying hydrated during training when it wasn't normal for athletes to stay hydrated.

But seriously, I was thinking of people like Groves, Oster in 2002 and then Conor Townsend in 2015.

Players returning have typically been quite disappointing. Nick Colgan was probably more impressive for us in 1994 when he didn't play but seriously, Aidan Davison was disappointing second time round, Alan Connell and Jamie Devitt were too. Marcus Marshall was outstanding against Braintree but that was his only real contribution of his second spell.

In the case of Vernam, he was a rare bright spark in an otherwise disastrous 2017-18 season on loan and I seem to recall Jolley wanting to keep him around the place despite him being Derby's player and out for the season.

He was an exciting signing that summer but he never seemed to offer much under Jolley. I seem to recall a couple of injuries but I think he was mainly restricted to sub appearances and had little chance to impress. There were very few complaints when he was sent on loan to Chorley but Limbrick made a point of recalling him when he was in caretaker charge. As his contract wound down and we benefitted from an upturn in performances before Covid hit, he hit a purple patch with his performance against Colchester being the highlight.

He was under 24 and if we offered him a better contract, we would have been owed a fee but we decided against doing that and he joined up with his ex Derby teammate at League One Burton. Once Hasselbaink came in though, he was soon on his way to Bradford.

I'd take the Vernam we had in that purple patch but the last 18 months and most of his time with us suggest that was just a blip.

Quoted from GrimExile

Matt Tees was one that’s for sure.

I saw him before he left and was there the game he returned, I think he doubled the normal attendance.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

In the unfinished season, Charles would have probably been Player of the Year and most were disappointed when he signed for Burton in the league above so I find it pretty bizarre that some don’t want him back especially if Wright and Maguire-Drew remain injured.

You have always been his biggest fan

Quoted from golfer

You have always been his biggest fan

I like decent footballers. With the possible exception of McAtee, Vernam is better than the rest of the current squad.

Quoted from GrimExile

Matt Tees was one that’s for sure.

Good call

Quoted from jamesgtfc

When was the last player who returned for a second spell (or in the case of Vernam, a third spell) actually a successful signing? Pearson has been alright this season but I wouldn't say he's been outstanding.

Tony Ford. Less exciting as a right back in his second spell than he was as a winger in his first spell, but still decent.

Clive Wiggington - better in his second spell than his first and at a higher level.

Thought Mick Boulding wasn’t too bad on his second stint

Surely the key question when a potential new signing comes up is 'would they be an improvement on what we've got?'

Can't for the life of me imagine anyone seriously thinking Vernam wouldn't be a huge, huge improvement on what we've got at present.  Seems to be this focus on his inconsistent form until Limbrick got hold of him and he returned from his loan at Chorley, yet prior to that he was never really giving a consistent run in the side and/or played in the position where he's capable of doing the most damage, cutting in off the left.  

He was absolutely unplayable in his last 3 months here, to the point I would say he was the most exciting player I've seen in a Town shirt for a long, long time during that spell.  Went to Burton (at a level two steps above our current one) and started very well, got good reviews but just fell out of favour with a change of manager.  Bradford, similar situation yet has generally impressed when played.

I'm never one for going back for ex-players just for the sake of it and it's quite obvious that for the Paul Groves, Conor Townsend and John Oster returns that work, there's a Marcus Marshall, Jamie Devitt, even a Ross Hannah type that doesn't.  But a signing of Vernam's quality is one I can't imagine we would be able to replicate easily, if at all.  Vernam, Maguire-Drew and McAtee behind the main striker would be very exciting to watch.

If the budget allows you can't have too many good players but Sousa on one wing and Maguire Drew on the other sounds good to me. We are unlikely to change the system for another flair player.

Quoted from jamesgtfc

Groves is just a physical phenomenon. Like Butterfield said the other day, he was staying hydrated during training when it wasn't normal for athletes to stay hydrated.

But seriously, I was thinking of people like Groves, Oster in 2002 and then Conor Townsend in 2015.

Players returning have typically been quite disappointing. Nick Colgan was probably more impressive for us in 1994 when he didn't play but seriously, Aidan Davison was disappointing second time round, Alan Connell and Jamie Devitt were too. Marcus Marshall was outstanding against Braintree but that was his only real contribution of his second spell.

In the case of Vernam, he was a rare bright spark in an otherwise disastrous 2017-18 season on loan and I seem to recall Jolley wanting to keep him around the place despite him being Derby's player and out for the season.

He was an exciting signing that summer but he never seemed to offer much under Jolley. I seem to recall a couple of injuries but I think he was mainly restricted to sub appearances and had little chance to impress. There were very few complaints when he was sent on loan to Chorley but Limbrick made a point of recalling him when he was in caretaker charge. As his contract wound down and we benefitted from an upturn in performances before Covid hit, he hit a purple patch with his performance against Colchester being the highlight.

He was under 24 and if we offered him a better contract, we would have been owed a fee but we decided against doing that and he joined up with his ex Derby teammate at League One Burton. Once Hasselbaink came in though, he was soon on his way to Bradford.

I'd take the Vernam we had in that purple patch but the last 18 months and most of his time with us suggest that was just a blip.

Dreadful take IMO.

Firstly, even a half decent Charles Vernam would be miles too good for this level. Secondly, his record from left-wing has been pretty good at Bradford and he's very well thought of over there so you could hardly say it's a blip.

Lots of injuries of late but was a key part of their team until recently. Be surprised if they let him go until the new manager has had a good look at the squad

Surely he is miles better than Clifton on the left? no disrepect to clifton but its clearly not his position.
Then again Scannel could wekk be coming back into the fold so do we need Vernham? looked good against Aldershot with minimal game time.

Out of interest why would Bradford allow a player, who has had reasonable game time, to leave right now when they have just appointed a new manager?

I may have misheard or misinterpreted it but I thought Hurst said (before signing of Mani) that we only had 2 loans left and they would be reserved for in case of an emergency.

I can’t see us using a last loan spot up on Vernam tbh. Holloway seemed to unlock something extraordinary in him for a few months but there is nothing to suggest he’s carried that on is there? Granted he’s been in an out of the side at Bradford.

We have enough wingers, if it were up to me I wouldn’t be trying for this move*

*I appreciate there is no evidence that anything regarding this rumour is factual.

Quoted from quebec38

I may have misheard or misinterpreted it but I thought Hurst said (before signing of Mani) that we only had 2 loans left and they would be reserved for in case of an emergency.

I can’t see us using a last loan spot up on Vernam tbh. Holloway seemed to unlock something extraordinary in him for a few months but there is nothing to suggest he’s carried that on is there? Granted he’s been in an out of the side at Bradford.

We have enough wingers, if it were up to me I wouldn’t be trying for this move*

*I appreciate there is no evidence that anything regarding this rumour is factual.

Vernam strikes me as a player who, whilst never prolific in league football, would be too clever for this level (as his 3 goals in 5 games for Chorley in 2019 would indicate).

Defenders in the National League, whilst often physically dominant, lack the smarts and quick thinking to thwart intelligent players. For me, that’s what’s at the heart of the likes of Tshimanga, Amond and Connell having such impressive scoring records in this division.

I’m not suggesting he’d be as deadly as those above, but o do think he’d add something to us. That said, I think the rumour is bollócks so it’s all rather immaterial.

Quoted from quebec38

I may have misheard or misinterpreted it but I thought Hurst said (before signing of Mani) that we only had 2 loans left and they would be reserved for in case of an emergency.

I can’t see us using a last loan spot up on Vernam tbh. Holloway seemed to unlock something extraordinary in him for a few months but there is nothing to suggest he’s carried that on is there? Granted he’s been in an out of the side at Bradford.

We have enough wingers, if it were up to me I wouldn’t be trying for this move*

*I appreciate there is no evidence that anything regarding this rumour is factual.

Why does it have to be a loan. He’s out of contact in the summer so we could sign him on a free even if it’s only in effect taking over the remaining time on his contract.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Why does it have to be a loan. He’s out of contact in the summer so we could sign him on a free even if it’s only in effect taking over the remaining time on his contract.

The first post containing the “rumour” stated that he is due to leave on loan. That was all I was going off.

FWIW if he became available in the summer on a free I think he would be worth looking at.

Quoted from quebec38

The first post containing the “rumour” stated that he is due to leave on loan. That was all I was going off.

FWIW if he became available in the summer on a free I think he would be worth looking at.

If he’s worth signing in the summer surely he’s worth signing at any point before that?

Quoted from GollyGTFC

If he’s worth signing in the summer surely he’s worth signing at any point before that?

Especially given injuries to Taylor, Maguire-Drew and Wright.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

If he’s worth signing in the summer surely he’s worth signing at any point before that?

As I said, I think PH said we now have one loan left for the season. IMO I don’t think it would be wise to use that last loan on an extra winger when it could be used better elsewhere in the squad.

Would be surprised if A) he leaves Bradford before there new manager has a look at him and B) if he did leave now or in summer he drops down to National league

Quoted from quebec38

As I said, I think PH said we now have one loan left for the season. IMO I don’t think it would be wise to use that last loan on an extra winger when it could be used better elsewhere in the squad.

We're quite well stocked in most areas on the pitch though.  

Wright, Grant and Maguire-Drew are all injured at present. I'd love to think Scannell will stay fit, however...    That leaves Sousa as the only actual winger who's fit at present.  Abrahams and Clifton have and are doing jobs out there, but may (especially in the case of Abrahams) be needed elsewhere in the coming weeks.  

Width is the area we lack, in my opinion.  Crying out for someone else who can stretch the game.

8 pages in, think that meets the threshold for the OP to reveal where he heard this info or face an immediate ban.

He’s got to be worth signing even if it takes 1 of the remaining loans ? We’ve got a big squad so should be able to cover most eventualities

Vernam would improve us … it’s as simple as that really for me

Quoted from diehardmariner

We're quite well stocked in most areas on the pitch though.  

Wright, Grant and Maguire-Drew are all injured at present. I'd love to think Scannell will stay fit, however...    That leaves Sousa as the only actual winger who's fit at present.  Abrahams and Clifton have and are doing jobs out there, but may (especially in the case of Abrahams) be needed elsewhere in the coming weeks.  

Width is the area we lack, in my opinion.  Crying out for someone else who can stretch the game.

All fair points 👍🏻 . It wouldn’t be my choice to play either of them there but Hurst seems to like Clifton and Abrahams wide since both have played there ahead of actual out and out wingers. Personally I’d rather Vernam than both but I feel like Hurst has made his mind up there.

For me our main weakness is central midfield. It would be a real rabbit out of a hat scenario to find a stellar central midfielder going spare though at this point in the season. Fox is out for a while, Coke is off the pace, Clifton is preferred on the left, which leaves only Raikhy and Burgess. I thought the midfield performed well against Aldershot but I think a lot more is needed there if we are to compete and make/win the playoffs.

I agree, I'd like to see a bit more in the midfield than we've currently got.  Like yourself I think against Aldershot it looked better and I felt more balanced, but I'm not convinced it'll be enough to really challenge.  I also think adding Clifton back into the mix in there will give us something extra.  

But we're still well stocked in there, Coke might be off the pace a little but he's still an option.  As is young Khouri too.  Simply on numbers alone I can't see Hurst trying to add anything extra in there until the summer.

With enough numbers in the building to cover all eventualities, barring an injury crisis where you probably just have to accept the bad luck, I would rather see any remaining loans be used on players who will make us better in any area if they become available.  Be that in goal, right wing, left back or centre forward.  Holding onto a loan 'just in case' would be a bit negative if any opportunity for improvement came up.  It would also be a very Hurst like thing to do.

Quoted from Teesknees

Pervert!

Brilliant pmsl

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Errrr… Vernam was a Slade signing.

Fair enough, honest mistake could of sworn he was a Hurst loan signing

Quoted from ska face

8 pages in, think that meets the threshold for the OP to reveal where he heard this info or face an immediate ban.

From the horse himself, overheard a conversation him and Ollie B were having in the gym and he was told he can leave on loan 👍

Quoted from golfer

Don't want him

How's Lou, Andy?

I'd love to see him back. I rate him very highly and he would be a superb signing.

Quoted from tashee69

Thought Mick Boulding wasn’t too bad on his second stint

Mick Boulding Mk2 had lost a yard of pace when he came back from Villa... but his all round game was better, and he'd learnt how to trap the ball!

I would say he was equally as successful the second time around but I couldn't help but think at the time that if he had retained that pace he had in his first stint, then he would have hit 30+ goals.

His pace in this league today would be a revelation.

Vernam comes with long seated injury issues. Without them(the injuries), he is way above National league in natural ability. It's a crystal ball job, needs very careful managing, hard one to call. Shame but that's what it is.

Quoted from Shipwrecked In Gainsborough

Vernam comes with long seated injury issues. Without them(the injuries), he is way above National league in natural ability. It's a crystal ball job, needs very careful managing, hard one to call. Shame but that's what it is.

That didn't stop both Holloway and Hurst signing players with injury problems.

Quoted from Shipwrecked In Gainsborough

Vernam comes with long seated injury issues. Without them(the injuries), he is way above National league in natural ability. It's a crystal ball job, needs very careful managing, hard one to call. Shame but that's what it is.

25 appearances this season (then 36, 37 and 41 in his previous 3 seasons) suggests he is way more reliable than all of our wide attacking players bar Sousa.

Quoted from Son of Cod

25 appearances this season (then 36, 37 and 41 in his previous 3 seasons) suggests he is way more reliable than all of our wide attacking players bar Sousa.

Sousa or Vernam? I don't think that comparison requires too much thought. I like Sousa, he's exciting to watch. That burst of pace, that change of direction. I really can't understand why his finishing in particular is so awful. He is a technical player, so I'm purplexed really why I feels he needs to put his laces through it every time to finish. Leans back, and more often than not it's miles over.

Course, he's a lot better than I ever was ha, but I just don't get the lack of composure when he's usually done the hard work. Vernam is Mcatee class at bare minimum. Would be a magnificent signing, I understand we almost had him pre season but we wouldn't pay 50k to sign him.

He’s not coming we need to let this idea of ex players coming back all the time go I’m afraid

Quoted from fishboyUTM

Sousa or Vernam? I don't think that comparison requires too much thought. I like Sousa, he's exciting to watch. That burst of pace, that change of direction. I really can't understand why his finishing in particular is so awful. He is a technical player, so I'm purplexed really why I feels he needs to put his laces through it every time to finish. Leans back, and more often than not it's miles over.

Course, he's a lot better than I ever was ha, but I just don't get the lack of composure when he's usually done the hard work. Vernam is Mcatee class at bare minimum. Would be a magnificent signing, I understand we almost had him pre season but we wouldn't pay 50k to sign him.

Wasn't a comparison of their abilities, just a comment that he's the only winger we have who isn't crocked almost all the time.

Highly doubt Vernam will be leaving Bradford, a quick search of his name on their forum shows you he's one of their best players.

Quoted from TownSNAFU5

He would do better in NL though.

When we loaned him To Chorley who were at this level for a month, they built a statue of him when he returned to us.