FFS Barrow

Results suggest Hurst has put together a worse group of players then Holloway and we will never know if he had shown some balls and stayed if he would have recruited better quality players and got us out the mess. I admit prior to his departure, and despite the poor run prior to Christmas, I was always confident Holloway would see us much further up the table.

I acknowledge that confidence may well have been misplaced and also accept his reasons for resigning were utter crap. That said I also thought Hurst would be the steady pair of hands required to see us safe but looks like I got that wrong as well.

Watching the brief highlights of the Barrow game you have to admit someone at Town has really drunk off the footballing gods as you will struggle to witness two luckier goals and the charmed life they had in maintaining their clean sheet. Problem is now is that most teams above us only have to win about 25% of their remaining matches to stay up so looks like it’s us and Southend going down. Should Notts County, Hartlepool, Chesterfield, Wrexham & Stockport stay in that league it’s plain to see a quick return is going to be a massive ask. Need significant investment and, IMO, a more adventurous Manager to achieve this and in reality not sure either will happen.

Thought 2020 was a crap year but 2021 is going to surpass it!!!

Quoted from Heswall Mariner

Just look at the table - it doesn't matter that we will of course loose to Tranmere now, we are down anyway even in the very unlikely event that we win. I have now accepted the inevitable. We were once a club to be reckoned with. How many b's in abysmal as Eric once said to Ernie in another comedy show - that was at least funny.  

Not yet we aren't and until it's mathematically impossible for us to stay in League 2 I Will keep saying this.  UTM!  I'm really pleased none of you lot who have given up were not in my Pl in the Army, we would have been well fecked.

Quoted from arryarryarry

I'm not sure if you are referring to Holloway or Hurst but Hurst has been as guilty as Holloway in his recruitment of these type of players which I cannot understand if as he said when he joined he had seen our games.

Like I posted elsewhere I don't hate the guy but I just don't rate him. I know for a fact that he is a decent bloke. Having just seen his pre-Tranmere interview he looks like he has aged 10 years from his first interviews and I am sure he has just about accepted we will be relegated.

I just hope he does the decent thing in my eyes and walks away if the inevitable happens.

Sorry, yes I was referring to Hurst. I agree with you. I don't dislike Hurst either and am really surprised that he has made such a pigs ear of it. I would never have imagined he would take us to our current position adrift at the bottom.

Quoted from Lincoln Mariner 56

Results suggest Hurst has put together a worse group of players then Holloway and we will never know if he had shown some balls and stayed if he would have recruited better quality players and got us out the mess. I admit prior to his departure, and despite the poor run prior to Christmas, I was always confident Holloway would see us much further up the table.

I acknowledge that confidence may well have been misplaced and also accept his reasons for resigning were utter crap. That said I also thought Hurst would be the steady pair of hands required to see us safe but looks like I got that wrong as well.

Watching the brief highlights of the Barrow game you have to admit someone at Town has really drunk off the footballing gods as you will struggle to witness two luckier goals and the charmed life they had in maintaining their clean sheet. Problem is now is that most teams above us only have to win about 25% of their remaining matches to stay up so looks like it’s us and Southend going down. Should Notts County, Hartlepool, Chesterfield, Wrexham & Stockport stay in that league it’s plain to see a quick return is going to be a massive ask. Need significant investment and, IMO, a more adventurous Manager to achieve this and in reality not sure either will happen.

Thought 2020 was a crap year but 2021 is going to surpass it!!!

Pretty much sums up what I thought

Quoted from pontoonlew

I've absolutely no doubt that Holloways recruitment was dire, but I'm surprised you've put that part in there. Firstly Holloway lost some extremely good players due to the club planning for no football next season, I'm still pretty certain he wouldn't have wanted that to happen and I'm absolutely certain we wouldn't be in this mess if it wasn't for that monumental member up.

Then we have the 'Covid Clause', whilst Holloway supported it in the media (and maybe did overall) I can't accept that we had a decent budget, Fenty and Day went for the bargain basement and that's where we've ended up.

Hurst has since built a new squad and one that is (at least points wise) somehow worse. I feel like those two things even themselves out.

Bizarre equivalence.

Don’t think the two situations are remotely comparable, but ultimately the blame lies with both managers, both squads and the entire board. Holloway just happens to be wearing two hats (phnarrr) in that scenario, as a board member and manager.

As for the budget, it’s only ever going to be speculation on both our ends. But given that we were one of the only teams in the football league to turn a profit in the last 12 months, and accounting for the substantial backing given by the fans, it’s hard to believe Holloway was scratching down the back of the sofa for coppers in the summer. That’s why we ended up with a squad of about 200. As for losing his best players, at least one of those was down to him & the board not knowing what the fck they’re doing over Vernam’s contract. Players leave, it’s to be expected, but it’s their own fault he went for nothing when we had an option on him.

They’ve both been awful, but only one had a seat on the board, oversight of the entire budget, and 5 months to do something about it.

The one thing Hurst has that no-one on this forum has is the insight into is the dressing room the day he walked back in the building.

We can argue the toss for eternity as to the results since he returned and indeed the comparison between the squad he inherited and the one he's built since.  But I can't believe that a guy trying to rebuild his reputation, is going to try to recruit a new squad in a 4-week window for the sake of it.  The only reason he can surely have done it is because he recognised that the mentality of that squad was not good enough.  

It's absolute conjecture, but we really don't know if the Holloway squad would have stayed out of the bottom two.  The league itself was was a farce until November/December.  A lot of sides were really excrement, like ourselves. But the difference is that once it became clear that completion of the season was happening, the struggling clubs started to invest in a better squad.  For whatever reason, when other clubs managed to find the budget to bring in better players (Barrow for example), we recruited what we could - suggesting the budget was so low and/or had already been largely spent.   The majority of the recruitment is quite clearly bargain basement.  Two guys from a Conference North basketcase club, both of whom are now nailed on starters.  A guy from the reserves of a side a couple of places above us, nailed on starter.  A guy who hadn't kicked a ball in nearly two years professionally, when fit a starter.  

I've been disappointed since Hurst came back.  He's taken far longer than expected to make the side difficult to beat.  I expected a battling January where we started to dig our heels in a bit with the additions bedding in and through February start to see some signs of recovery, then hit March running and picking up points and wins.  It hasn't happened like that at all.  But Christ Almighty the guy has got an impossible job on.  He's tried to polish a turd and it hasn't worked, he's about as much to blame for our position as you or me.

Going back to the original point about Barrow, I didn't really expect Barrow to be the side we needed to hunt down.  They had a decent January recruitment and since Jolley left have picked up.  It was either Port Vale or Colchester I've thought for a while we need to reel in.

You can tell it's that time of season when I tuned into the second half of Newport v Port Vale last night in the hope of watching a result go in our favour.  Newport absolutely battered Port Vale for 30 minutes of that half, but just couldn't get the lead.  Vale had a five minute spell and took their chance.  At the minute this is the difference.  We're not taking chances when we get them or taking advantage of sustained spells of pressure.  

It's two down so in my mind we need to rule Southend out of this other than that they're a team we will need to overtake.  I don't think we'll be competing with them for a relegation place.  If we're to have any hope we need to leapfrog them and look at pulling someone else down.  

Barrow I think we discount as in my eyes they'll pull away now.  They've got the bit between their teeth and are in form.  11 from 15 is good form wherever you are in the league, by all accounts they're playing well too not just picking up results.

Colchester are 12 points ahead of us with 2 games extra played.  Even if we win those 2 in hand we're 6 points behind, effectively 7 because of our goal difference.  Not beating them was critical.  

Vale on the other hand are also 12 ahead but with 3 games extra played.  We've also got to play them in the second last game of the season.  If (absolutely huge ask) we win those 3 games in hand we go 3 behind them (4 if we account for goal difference) and have them to play.  

The ask is unbelievable.  Hand on heart I can't see it happening. Our output in terms of points picked up will have to dramatically change starting tonight. From what I saw, Vale looked dogshit.  Worse than us and worse than Colchester, it just happened that Newport were dreadful too.  How that transforms over the next 6 or so weeks remains to be seen.    All we can do is win our games and see what happens elsewhere.

Quoted from diehardmariner

Going back to the original point about Barrow, I didn't really expect Barrow to be the side we needed to hunt down.  They had a decent January recruitment and since Jolley left have picked up.  It was either Port Vale or Colchester I've thought for a while we need to reel in.

You can tell it's that time of season when I tuned into the second half of Newport v Port Vale last night in the hope of watching a result go in our favour.  Newport absolutely battered Port Vale for 30 minutes of that half, but just couldn't get the lead.  Vale had a five minute spell and took their chance.  At the minute this is the difference.  We're not taking chances when we get them or taking advantage of sustained spells of pressure.  

It's two down so in my mind we need to rule Southend out of this other than that they're a team we will need to overtake.  I don't think we'll be competing with them for a relegation place.  If we're to have any hope we need to leapfrog them and look at pulling someone else down.  

Barrow I think we discount as in my eyes they'll pull away now.  They've got the bit between their teeth and are in form.  11 from 15 is good form wherever you are in the league, by all accounts they're playing well too not just picking up results.

Colchester are 12 points ahead of us with 2 games extra played.  Even if we win those 2 in hand we're 6 points behind, effectively 7 because of our goal difference.  Not beating them was critical.  

Vale on the other hand are also 12 ahead but with 3 games extra played.  We've also got to play them in the second last game of the season.  If (absolutely huge ask) we win those 3 games in hand we go 3 behind them (4 if we account for goal difference) and have them to play.  

The ask is unbelievable.  Hand on heart I can't see it happening. Our output in terms of points picked up will have to dramatically change starting tonight. From what I saw, Vale looked dogshit.  Worse than us and worse than Colchester, it just happened that Newport were dreadful too.  How that transforms over the next 6 or so weeks remains to be seen.    All we can do is win our games and see what happens elsewhere.

If you'd have tuned in a bit earlier you'd have seen Vale have Newport on strings for the entirety of the first half, it should have been 3-0 at HT. At the break Newport made two substitutions and changed the formation and unsurprisingly came out of the blocks like a rocket, forcing a crap goal and knocking Vale's confidence massively until David Amoo came on and changed Vale's shape. 10 mins later it was 2-1 and Vale comfortably saw the game out.

They wouldn't have done under John Askey but new manager Darrell Clarke changed shape and made proactive substitutions, even going 5 at the back at the very end having brought on two centre halves. Proactive and cynical game management is absolutely unprecedented uncharted territory for Vale this season, it's going to take some getting used to, having competence in the dug out.

I wouldn't pin your hopes on Vale sinking based on the second half you've watched, we've improved massively game by game under Clarke. What you have to realise is we are hamstrung with Theo Robinson and Kurtis Guthrie up front, they might as well roll onto the pitch in wheelchairs. In the last 3 we mutilated Oldham with 23+ shots but that pair of Donkeys couldn't tap into an empty net, we were very unlucky to lose 1-0 to Bolton due to a mis-hit tame effort off a centre halfs shin, and we, on the basis of the full 90, had a strong game last night to beat 4th placed Newport who had won the last 3.

I'd set your sights on Colchester and Smallsall in terms of trying to catch teams, Vale play the former on Saturday.

FWIW if you stayed up at the expense of Smallsall I would LOVE IT.

Relegation was inevitable from  the first day of our return to the league.This an accumulation of under investment and penny pinching,this club has a dreadful reputation amongst players  in what is a profession where players talk to other players. The club is toxic and needs a clear out from top to bottom.

Quoted from Doha

If you'd have tuned in a bit earlier you'd have seen Vale have Newport on strings for the entirety of the first half, it should have been 3-0 at HT. At the break Newport made two substitutions and changed the formation and unsurprisingly came out of the blocks like a rocket, forcing a crap goal and knocking Vale's confidence massively until David Amoo came on and changed Vale's shape. 10 mins later it was 2-1 and Vale comfortably saw the game out.

They wouldn't have done under John Askey but new manager Darrell Clarke changed shape and made proactive substitutions, even going 5 at the back at the very end having brought on two centre halves. Proactive and cynical game management is absolutely unprecedented uncharted territory for Vale this season, it's going to take some getting used to, having competence in the dug out.

I wouldn't pin your hopes on Vale sinking based on the second half you've watched, we've improved massively game by game under Clarke. What you have to realise is we are hamstrung with Theo Robinson and Kurtis Guthrie up front, they might as well roll onto the pitch in wheelchairs. In the last 3 we mutilated Oldham with 23+ shots but that pair of Donkeys couldn't tap into an empty net, we were very unlucky to lose 1-0 to Bolton due to a mis-hit tame effort off a centre halfs shin, and we, on the basis of the full 90, had a strong game last night to beat 4th placed Newport who had won the last 3.

I'd set your sights on Colchester and Smallsall in terms of trying to catch teams, Vale play the former on Saturday.

FWIW if you stayed up at the expense of Smallsall I would LOVE IT.

Fair points, I didn't see any of the first half.  Nor any of your other games under Clarke.  I actually thought that Vale were one of the better sides I've seen against us this year, albeit we were absolutely bloody dreadful.  Can't remember the name. but the lad on your left tore us apart.

We had Newport on toast for the first half when we played them and then completely failed to take advantage of playing against ten men, ended up losing.  I guess that's why you're 12 points ahead of us...