Our biggest issue

Here are some stats that highlight our biggest issue (game management)...

Points lost after scoring the opening goal...
Grimsby Town: 32
Colchester United: 22
Forest Green Rovers: 20
Sutton United: 12

Points gained after conceding the opening goal...
Colchester United: 15
Sutton United: 9
Forest Green Rovers: 6
Grimsby Town: 5

Net point difference from opening goal...
Sutton United: -3
Colchester United: -7
Forest Green Rovers: -14
Grimsby Town: -27

League wins after scoring first...
Sutton United: 9 out of 14 (64.3%)
Forest Green Rovers: 8 out 15 (53.3%)
Colchester United: 6 out of 15 (40.0%)
Grimsby Town: 7 out of 20 (35.0%)

A Team with no resilience

Winning is a habit. So is losing.

Too many losers in this squad, only Danny Rose has been used to winning on anything approaching a regular basis and you can see it in his play.

How many times have we been a goal ahead, but not gone two goals ahead and not won?

Not putting games to bed. Like yesterday

Quoted from IlkleyMariner

How many times have we been a goal ahead, but not gone two goals ahead and not won?

Not putting games to bed. Like yesterday

Notts County (a): 1 up (twice), lost 3-2
Mansfield (h): 1 up, drew 1-1
Walsall (a): 1 up, drew 1-1 (conceded 81mins)
Bradford (a): 1 up, drew 1-1 (conceded 89mins)
Crawley (h): 2 up, lost 3-2 (conceded after 90mins)
Tranmere (a): 2-1 up, drew 2-2
Colchester (h): 1 up, lost 3-2
Sutton (h): 1 up, drew 1-1
MK (a): 1 up, drew 1-1
Walsall (h): 1 up, lost 6-1
Notts County (h): 2 up, then 3-2 up, then 4-3 up, drew 5-5
Morecambe (a): 1 up, drew 1-1
Sutton (a): 1 up, drew 1-1 (conceded 88mins)
Gillingham (a): 1 up, drew 1-1
Bradford (h): 1 up, drew 1-1 (conceded after 90mins)

So we’ve surrendered a lead and lost points in 15 games this season. 9 of those games have ended up as 1-1 draws.

Quoted from IlkleyMariner

How many times have we been a goal ahead, but not gone two goals ahead and not won?

Not putting games to bed. Like yesterday

We have gone 1-0 up in 20 L2 matches this season. We went 2-0 up in 6 of them.

In the 6 matches we went 2-0 up we won 4, drew 1 (Notts County) and lost 1 (Crawley).
In the other 14 matches where we were only 1-0 up we won 2 (the recent home wins over FGR & MK), drew 9 and lost 3.

So 1-0 is rarely enough for us. We need a 2nd goal.

Off the top of my head, we’ve been 2 goals up twice too, both times at home, and only taken 1 point (that point requiring an injury time equaliser from Harry Wood).

The lack of psychological resilience in this side has been stark for most of this season (save for a few games in the last few weeks); the polar opposite of the side that got us back in the league in the first place. I would go as far as saying that our mental fragility is far and away a bigger threat to us than our lack of technical ability.

Ultimately, Notts County, Wrexham and Solihull had all proven they were better teams than us over a 44 game season in 21/22, but couldn’t match our psychological cojones when it truly mattered. Golly’s opening post highlights perfectly what I think most of us already felt - that we’re not just a soft touch, we’re practically Mr Whippy in 35 degree heat. And that’s not really what you want for the scrap that lies in front of us.

The only time we've won from behind this season was under the caretaker managers against Morecambe.

Quoted from ska face

Tranmere (a): 2-1 up, drew 2-2

So if you extend my stats to include any match where we've lead rather than just 1-0 up then we've won 7 out of 21 matches in which we've lead (33.3%). Shocking.

Quoted from ska face

Notts County (a): 1 up (twice), lost 3-2
Mansfield (h): 1 up, drew 1-1
Walsall (a): 1 up, drew 1-1 (conceded 81mins)
Bradford (a): 1 up, drew 1-1 (conceded 89mins)
Crawley (h): 2 up, lost 3-2 (conceded after 90mins)
Tranmere (a): 2-1 up, drew 2-2
Colchester (h): 1 up, lost 3-2
Sutton (h): 1 up, drew 1-1
MK (a): 1 up, drew 1-1
Walsall (h): 1 up, lost 6-1
Notts County (h): 2 up, then 3-2 up, then 4-3 up, drew 5-5
Morecambe (a): 1 up, drew 1-1
Sutton (a): 1 up, drew 1-1 (conceded 88mins)
Gillingham (a): 1 up, drew 1-1
Bradford (h): 1 up, drew 1-1 (conceded after 90mins)

So we’ve surrendered a lead and lost points in 15 games this season. 9 of those games have ended up as 1-1 draws.

What I've noticed about that list is 7 of those were under Hurst and 8 were under Artell. So little has changed. We're still so mentally weak.

If games finished at half time, we'd be 8th. Quite an alarming stat given how many times I can recall us being out of games at half time aswell.

The trouble is we have a range of key weaknesses:

Mental strength (lack of)

Quality ((lack of bar 2 exceptions)

Technical ability (where would you start?)

Physical strength and tackling

The Manager!!  (Plymouth have just sacked their manager of 3 months)

We started yesterday with a teenager striker and a young inexperienced keeper.


(Just had a coffee and the girl said  “no worries”, so everything will be ok).

Other than failing to build on a lead, the defence has proved especially fragile.

In that run of 6 matches unbeaten, we managed to scrape a few results mostly by playing with 5 at the back and with 3 defensive midfielders. The wide players in the 5 aren't wing-backs as they barely get forward, and yet we're still conceding goals when up against it.

I was watching yesterday, slightly frustrated that the forwards were receiving so little support and having nobody to lay it off to most of the time, even if they won the first ball, but then reflected that I wouldn't trust most of the defenders to play in a back 4, because they just aren't reliable enough. Full-backs especially.

In fact, looking through the squad, there aren't too many players in there who I would be happy to see playing for us next season. That is regardless of which division we end up playing in. I don't think a lot of them are even good enough to be playing in a team vying for promotion out of the Conference.

If we manage to scrape our way to safety, I can see it being another long season next year if the players we still have under contract have to form the basis of the team.

Quoted from ska face

Winning is a habit. So is losing.

Too many losers in this squad, only Danny Rose has been used to winning on anything approaching a regular basis and you can see it in his play.

I agree.

Yep, we're a team of losers and we reek of it.  

It's not even just what people have won before, we lack any swagger in our play.  They all look flipping petrified of the ball.

Yesterday we had two lads on loan from Elite Academy's in our starting outfield side.  I would expect them to full of themselves.  They'll have had people in their ear for years telling them they're God's gift and probably thought prior to coming here on loan that they're just using it as a stepping stone to greatness.

I'm in no doubt that they've come into the building and carried themselves in that exact way, that's not a criticism either I think the best footballers have a degree of arrogance and self-confidence about them.  Yet both Andrews and Obikwu looked for the majority of the game like they were frightened of their own shadow.  

What the intercourse have we done in the last 12 months to go from that side that went to Southampton and got right in their face and capitalised on the insecurities of the home side to one that looks like they've not ventured outside in decades?

Last paragraph - brilliant question.
Starts at the top of the club hierarchy imo.
It’s always decisions that lead the way - good or bad.

Quoted from diehardmariner

Yep, we're a team of losers and we reek of it.  

It's not even just what people have won before, we lack any swagger in our play.  They all look flipping petrified of the ball.

Yesterday we had two lads on loan from Elite Academy's in our starting outfield side.  I would expect them to full of themselves.  They'll have had people in their ear for years telling them they're God's gift and probably thought prior to coming here on loan that they're just using it as a stepping stone to greatness.

I'm in no doubt that they've come into the building and carried themselves in that exact way, that's not a criticism either I think the best footballers have a degree of arrogance and self-confidence about them.  Yet both Andrews and Obikwu looked for the majority of the game like they were frightened of their own shadow.  

What the intercourse have we done in the last 12 months to go from that side that went to Southampton and got right in their face and capitalised on the insecurities of the home side to one that looks like they've not ventured outside in decades?

Confidence breeds confidence.  I know it's a masculine thing to be a bully and do someone down, but to build any team spirit you have to accentuate the positive.  Forget being negative,.  If, as a footballer, you miss a pass or scoop a shot, you don't need the manager/other players in your ear, complaining.  You know you messed up.  But if everyone is giving out praise then you feel happier and more confident and will improve.

Quoted from JK47

Confidence breeds confidence.  I know it's a masculine thing to be a bully and do someone down, but to build any team spirit you have to accentuate the positive.  Forget being negative,.  If, as a footballer, you miss a pass or scoop a shot, you don't need the manager/other players in your ear, complaining.  You know you messed up.  But if everyone is giving out praise then you feel happier and more confident and will improve.

I don't think it makes any difference. Nobody is going to be called out for mistakes like in decades gone by, and the club have gone out of their way to help the players. The crowd have been patient and supportive but they were getting restless on Monday when Obikwu couldn't manage more than a jog and was always on his heels.

I expect us to play Wilson and Vernam for the run in to at least give defences something to think about.

We're 8th in the first half table and bottom in the second half table. Literally promotion form in the first 45 and relegation form in the second 45.

https://www.thefishy.co.uk/leaguetable.php?table=4&tab=tab-ht

Would suggest the problem is related to poor fitness or lack of depth of substitutes compared to opposition

I think there's a balance that has to be had.  

Yeah, it's not 1973 anymore.  Screaming in someone's face to not be excrement isn't going to achieve anything.  But if we're giving out praise regardless then the impact is lost.  I don't think there's anything wrong with people feeling a bit of the heat from the coals on their feet to get them going.  I also don't think that has to come just from the dugout either.

Artell and his staff are intelligent and articulate guys, I don't for a second think they're going from one extreme to the other in their man-management of the players.  What I do think, which follows on from my own (initially intended) rhetorical question, is that we've stripped the heart and soul out of the dressing room in the last 12 months.

We lost too many leaders last summer without replacing them.  Shaun Pearson stepped into a managerial role and away from the dressing room.  Ryan Taylor was known as a leader.  Luke Waterfall went in January and we didn't replace his experience.  The impact on the dressing room someone like Sean Scannell had is probably overlooked  I think in Danny Rose and then perhaps Curtis Thompson we've brought in other leaders, but it's not enough.  We had a strong character as our goalkeeper in Max Crocombe, we've replaced him with two guys with a lack of experience and quite clearly fragile confidence.  Danny Amos looked, to me anyway, that good egg type in the dressing room who everyone liked....

Bit by bit we've chipped away at it and not replaced it.  I'm not saying everyone we've brought in is meek and quiet, but we don't look to have leaders out there.    There's Tharme out there who's bollocking his defence and Thompson a little.  But that's it.  I think Rose is a great player but he more often than not stands looking frustrated when something goes wrong, I don't blame him either.  12-18 months ago the backline would be screaming murder at each other for the soft goals we're conceding.  For the majority we're just doing a bit of pointing and wafting of the arms.

Whatever happens over the next 5 games, getting some very strong characters and natural leaders into that changing room is absolute priority.

Cometh the hour, cometh the man: VERNAM. From what I saw when he came on at Barrow; terrified them in the last ten minutes. He was quick, direct and confident and may well be our saviour in the run-in....if he gets picked?

We are either not fit or we don't let the ball do the work. Last year for example Clifton ran and ran and ran, this year he's sh.agged at half time - something is wrong.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

What I've noticed about that list is 7 of those were under Hurst and 8 were under Artell. So little has changed. We're still so mentally weak.

Not that surprising when you think that five of our back six from the second half yesterday get relegated last season.

Quoted from mariner91

Not that surprising when you think that five of our back six from the second half yesterday get relegated last season.

Add to that a starting line up with 2 young loan players who look to have talent but are pretty green, a bench with limited game time recently and our nest player returning from a few games out.

I also though yesterday you thought Hurst would have learned his lesson when he signed  Berret and Summerfield from York who had just been relegated, though I liked Summerfield's work rate & attitude neither where good enough.  

   Points lost after scoring opening goal : 32

   Points gained after conceding opening goal : 5

  Thanks for figuring this out. those facts tell quite a story! I knew this had happened over and over again, but I didn't realize the difference would be quite as stark as that.

  How can you expect to win football matches when you very rarely score more than a single goal? You can't expect to keep a clean sheet and win 1-0 very often. Other teams are well aware that even if they go behind against us, they are very likely to come back to take points.

I agree with the thread title. This indeed is our biggest issue and has been all season. Consistent goal scorers are expensive, but the lack of one can be much more expensive in the long run.

Quoted from golfer

We are either not fit or we don't let the ball do the work. Last year for example Clifton ran and ran and ran, this year he's sh.agged at half time - something is wrong.

Pearson mentioned something about a knee injury for Clifton that he's been struggling with? Could well go some way to explaining why he has been so far below par for much of the season.

Wat a fking waste of reading etc. Were going down, get over it, manager and team are shite, were back to where we belong, and well deserved, bad signings, bad management etc. So stop all the topics on all of this, just accept it, geez

Quoted from TonySmith

Consistent goal scorers are expensive, but the lack of one can be much more expensive in the long run.

We could worse than sign that lad banging them in for Crawley.....oh wait, we got rid him. What a stupid decison that was.