Hurst in or out?

Quoted from heppy88

Agree with your post except the above. I’ve been to all home games and many away in the last 10 + years and for me many of the home performances this season, especially the first half of Tuesday night have been the worst. I believe this season we’ve had zero indication of the continuing improvement we were promised.

Talk about over-egging. Whilst not exactly riveting, had we won the game 3-2, as we may well have done on balance, no one would have talked about the first half performance as anything worse than fine

Quoted from Bigdog

No it doesn't. Read it again. Great support and that awful game and result was the catalyst of our crap run of safety first league football..

The other thing I can't believe is the swing towards wanting Hurst to stay since he gave an interview where he admitted he didn't have a clue how to change things. Begs the question of how ambitious our fanbase really are. Empathy isn't going to get us into League One..The last thing I wanted to happen this season was change the manager by the way, but enough is enough..

Read it again but I'm still not sure what your point is beyond anything obvious.

You're saying that on a Tuesday night we took a great following to Wealdstone. This on the back of a good run and many thinking we'd be in for a nice win and a good atmosphere I'd imagine.

The game was the first of a lengthy run in which we didn't amass many points and performances weren't great. From this attendances started to drop because the football PH served up was poor.

Our first two attendances that season were 5,030 and 5,034. Then we had four games that ranged 5,836 - 7213, with Chesterfield and Notts County in that group, swelling the away support. Of the next 9 games only 3 broke the opening game attendances. The final four games the lowest attendance was 5,826 as we went into the run for play-offs.

If your point is attendances are linked to results I'm not sure why Wealdstone is important other than it coming up on a feed. It has no reference/relevance/bearing to the fantastic following we went on to have at Notts County, Wrexham, Olympic Stadium, nor the numbers at Leyton Orient, Rochdale, Walsall, Stockport, Crewe, Northampton, Southampton, Brighton, Mansfield on a Tuesday night, Bradford, Doncaster and a good smattering at Tranmere. This season has seen good numbers at most away games so far too.

The fact there isn't a scramble for Doncaster tickets is indicative of the form we're in and replicates the evidence above when we went through a poor spell in NL but I'd say it's the same for any team anywhere.

I'm sure we're agreeing on the same thing, I just didn't/don't see how Wealdstone has a significance place in it.

As a side note, I think it does raise the question over performance v results. I don't think the football in that NL poor spell was significantly different to the play off run and last season. PH is not renowned for re-inventing his football philosophies and churning different brands of football when it isn't working, it's highlighted as his weakness and he did nothing drastic to change our fortunes back then. Yet despite that, the spells we win are considered as good football, or ignored and not mentioned and we simply enjoy the ride. But when we're losing the football is crap and that's the problem. Essentially, he trusted his football, trusted his players and remained patient in adversity, there's an argument that that's what you get when you're careful of the characters you sign.

It boils down to your own personal trust in PH whether he can bring us through the adversity we're experiencing now, some look to that season and know he did it before so can do it again. Others look at it differently and don't trust he will, it's a personal thing that can only be proven 6 months from now. If it goes well then its great for everyone, unless you've publicly demolished the guy and you look foolish. If it doesn't then no-one benefits and hindsight makes you regret having that belief.

The more I post on the topic, the more of a U Turn I'm taking on the agreement that perhaps his time is up. Partly because I have a deep respect and like for the guy, partly because now the emotion has gone from Tuesday, and when we look at history, we know there is always a dip in a PH season and I'd like to give just a little longer to see if ours is getting out the way early doors.

Quoted from gtfc_chris

Read it again but I'm still not sure what your point is beyond anything obvious.

You're saying that on a Tuesday night we took a great following to Wealdstone. This on the back of a good run and many thinking we'd be in for a nice win and a good atmosphere I'd imagine.

The game was the first of a lengthy run in which we didn't amass many points and performances weren't great. From this attendances started to drop because the football PH served up was poor.

Our first two attendances that season were 5,030 and 5,034. Then we had four games that ranged 5,836 - 7213, with Chesterfield and Notts County in that group, swelling the away support. Of the next 9 games only 3 broke the opening game attendances. The final four games the lowest attendance was 5,826 as we went into the run for play-offs.

If your point is attendances are linked to results I'm not sure why Wealdstone is important other than it coming up on a feed. It has no reference/relevance/bearing to the fantastic following we went on to have at Notts County, Wrexham, Olympic Stadium, nor the numbers at Leyton Orient, Rochdale, Walsall, Stockport, Crewe, Northampton, Southampton, Brighton, Mansfield on a Tuesday night, Bradford, Doncaster and a good smattering at Tranmere. This season has seen good numbers at most away games so far too.

The fact there isn't a scramble for Doncaster tickets is indicative of the form we're in and replicates the evidence above when we went through a poor spell in NL but I'd say it's the same for any team anywhere.

I'm sure we're agreeing on the same thing, I just didn't/don't see how Wealdstone has a significance place in it.

As a side note, I think it does raise the question over performance v results. I don't think the football in that NL poor spell was significantly different to the play off run and last season. PH is not renowned for re-inventing his football philosophies and churning different brands of football when it isn't working, it's highlighted as his weakness and he did nothing drastic to change our fortunes back then. Yet despite that, the spells we win are considered as good football, or ignored and not mentioned and we simply enjoy the ride. But when we're losing the football is crap and that's the problem. Essentially, he trusted his football, trusted his players and remained patient in adversity, there's an argument that that's what you get when you're careful of the characters you sign.

It boils down to your own personal trust in PH whether he can bring us through the adversity we're experiencing now, some look to that season and know he did it before so can do it again. Others look at it differently and don't trust he will, it's a personal thing that can only be proven 6 months from now. If it goes well then its great for everyone, unless you've publicly demolished the guy and you look foolish. If it doesn't then no-one benefits and hindsight makes you regret having that belief.

The more I post on the topic, the more of a U Turn I'm taking on the agreement that perhaps his time is up. Partly because I have a deep respect and like for the guy, partly because now the emotion has gone from Tuesday, and when we look at history, we know there is always a dip in a PH season and I'd like to give just a little longer to see if ours is getting out the way early doors.

He obviously started the season wanting to play 4-1-4-1 with Conteh pulling the strings , I thought we looked quite good - Notts , Gillingham and Bradford were encouraging and it seemed he had his mind set on a new philosophy ; a few tricky results and it went by the wayside .

Then he changed his thinking didn't he  ,he's played 3 or 4 variations of 4-3-3 and now gone with different variations of 3-5-2  the last few games .

It's made it very difficult for players to find any consistency , and as I have mentioned before I find it bizarre he's gone away from his original template of 4-4-2/4-4-1-1  in his most testing time - he hasn't even reverted to type of 2 solid blocks of 4 with a tucked in winger on one side and  a more expansive one on the other.  

It was over strange that we went 3-5-2  against Colchester ,especially as Mullarkey & Amos needed more protection and were bullied first half by their nippy and strong wingers .

I don't think this current team is comparable to the one's before as so far it seems to be set up in such a different way(it's actually been lot's of different ways ).

Quoted from immariner

Talk about over-egging. Whilst not exactly riveting, had we won the game 3-2, as we may well have done on balance, no one would have talked about the first half performance as anything worse than fine

Half time on Tuesday, I commented to the guy sitting next to me, that that was the worst half of football I’ve seen Grimsby play in at least 10 years. Now you may feel I’m over egging. But that’s what I said then and I stand by it. Not asking you to agree, just my opinion. I went to the game determined to be balanced in my view as I’ve found recent performances hard to take and I was wondering if I was falling out of love with it all. I disagree that a win would have changed opinions that much, because despite fans being fickle they can spot a poor performance when they see one.

Quoted from heppy88

Half time on Tuesday, I commented to the guy sitting next to me, that that was the worst half of football I’ve seen Grimsby play in at least 10 years. Now you may feel I’m over egging. But that’s what I said then and I stand by it.

You can’t have seen that many Town matches in the past 10 years then?! 😊

Quoted from kafunanapar140909

There is a generation angle from which to look at support for Hurst. For those (like me) who are early-30s and below, who just missed out on the Buckley years, Hurst is the most successful manager of our Town-supporting lives, by a very long way.

We know from various polls down the years that the average Fishy user is a little older than this. My assumption would be that the wider fanbase is even more sympathetic to Hurst than this poll suggests.

I’d like to know how people felt when Buckley left (first or second time). I bet it was gut-wrenching for some. When he left in 2008 I remember a kind of sympathetic affection, but obviously I didn’t have the first-hand experience of his first two spells as reference.

For better or worse, that kind of best-in-our-lifetime affection for a manager is going to make younger fans think twice before calling for his head, even after a run like this.

You make some interesting points, although quite a few of the Fishy posters, who are on the fence or ardent Hurst supporters I believe are over 50.

I’m genuinely interested in those supporting Hurst if they like/enjoy what is currently on display?

I would also ask, if they are content in keeping the status quo with the current situation, what would it take for them to change their opinions of Hurst staying at the club?

I read someone earlier post, that although they want Hurst to go, they would want him to stay if we were relegated. Which was also an interesting point of view which a part of me agreed with! I guess what that suggests is Hurst is an excellent non league manager but I’m struggling to see how that can be replicated in the league. Yes I know about Shrewsbury, but he has not had any consistent success/impact in the EFL.

Ok then the board listen to the minority/ majority whatever it maybe , just a simple question who are we going to attract sitting where we are in lge 2 ? we all have an opinion but please put some names to this for me if you could

Quoted from fishcake63

Ok then the board listen to the minority/ majority whatever it maybe , just a simple question who are we going to attract sitting where we are in lge 2 ? we all have an opinion but please put some names to this for me if you could

If you just want a ‘name’ I’ll plump for Pascal Chimbonda. Currently rock bottom of the NW Counties Premier with Skelmersdale Utd but he inherited a mess.

He’d bring media attention…we could offer him some shares and some lukewarm fish n chips.

Quoted from fishcake63

Ok then the board listen to the minority/ majority whatever it maybe , just a simple question who are we going to attract sitting where we are in lge 2 ? we all have an opinion but please put some names to this for me if you could

I hardly know any lower league managers now the turnover is that high isn't it . The only one I think would be worth going for who I know of would be Pete Wild at Barrow but he's probably not realistic is he ?

Quoted from Mappers

He obviously started the season wanting to play 4-1-4-1 with Conteh pulling the strings , I thought we looked quite good - Notts , Gillingham and Bradford were encouraging and it seemed he had his mind set on a new philosophy ; a few tricky results and it went by the wayside .

Then he changed his thinking didn't he  ,he's played 3 or 4 variations of 4-3-3 and now gone with different variations of 3-5-2  the last few games .

It's made it very difficult for players to find any consistency , and as I have mentioned before I find it bizarre he's gone away from his original template of 4-4-2/4-4-1-1  in his most testing time - he hasn't even reverted to type of 2 solid blocks of 4 with a tucked in winger on one side and  a more expansive one on the other.  

It was over strange that we went 3-5-2  against Colchester ,especially as Mullarkey & Amos needed more protection and were bullied first half by their nippy and strong wingers .

I don't think this current team is comparable to the one's before as so far it seems to be set up in such a different way(it's actually been lot's of different ways ).

I had assumed PH had to be intending to play 4-4-1-1 or 4-1-4-1 otherwise he wouldn’t have only had 3 strikers in the squad with one of those being converted from wing back. If he’d intended to play with 2 up all season surely he would have wanted 4 forwards with maybe 3 permanents and a good loanee. I expect his plan also included two from Wilson, Vernam and Eisa to be wide in the 4 and cut in closer to the 1, with breaks forward from the advanced midfield 2. Probably Holohan and Clifton or Hunt and Clifton as the 2 - hence why Green was out of the team at the start of the season.

Notwithstanding our recent goalkeeping and defensive woes, this has unravelled with injuries and loss of form.