Why we struggle to compete...

Quoted from HerveJosse

Compare Leeds with Bradford 10 mikes down the road . When I studied and worked in both 40 years ago the two cities were on a par now one is a booming modern city and the other is a shithole. Local government is part of the reason for the difference but not all both fall within West Yorkshire . The mass exodus of young well educated people capable of developing modern businesses from North East Lincs over the last 30 years is a significant reason for its decline and once the spiral starts it’s difficult to see what stops the decline . Opening up university entry to 50% plus of school leavers had the unintended consequence of shafting places like Grimsby. Lincoln by contrast had the foresight to develop a university which was arguably Mickey Mouse at first but is not quite highly regarded fed and has generated the redevelopment of the City

Bradford gets a bad rap, not entirely without good cause, but like anywhere it has good areas and bad, and the city centre has improved over the course of the last 10 - 15 years. The ethnic diversity of Bradford is actually the product of the textile industry there still thriving, comparatively speaking, in the 50s and 60s when there was a shortage of low-skilled workers in the country, and whatever your views on that, it changed the future dynamic of the city versus neighbouring Leeds.

I moved to Leeds in 2006 and it has, as others have pointed out, changed beyond recognition in that time. It has successfully ploughed on through the 2008 financial crisis and the pandemic, though it is worth pointing out that it has not been immune to the decline in bricks and mortar retail. I was in the aforementioned White Rose Centre last night and there is a long row of vacant retail units, whilst in the heart of the city centre the large shells left behind by the likes of Debenhams and House of Fraser will never by occupied by retail ever again - they are being repurposed into student housing.

Despite that, it has definitely been a beneficiary of good decision making, and if it was in the early stages of a digital revolution when I first moved here it is very much enjoying somewhat of a renaissance period now. It’s a great place to work and live for young people; at almost 38, I am somewhat of an old dog in the digital / tech space.

But you cannot get away from the fact that it was already a major urban population, conveniently located with good external travel links (despite diabolically poor internal public transport systems). It has created an identify for itself, and offers a great balance of working opportunity, amenities and cost of living (house prices are roughly 85% higher than those in NE Lincs, but still only a third of those in London). NE Lincs fares well on the cost of living front, but only because it lacks the other two fundamental components - opportunities and things to do.

What’s the solution to that? We can’t move it. It needs reinventing. I would love nothing more than to see the revolution in renewable energy being the catalyst for growth and opportunity in the area. Time will tell, but without prosperity within the community local authorities will remain depressingly austere - both financially and in terms of talent.

Regrettably, I suspect the wider fate of the town is intrinsically linked to our hopes of moving to a new stadium in the future. We’re going to have to play the long game.

Some really excellent points on this thread.

You'll not meet anyone prouder of Grimsby and Cleethorpes as me. I bloody love the place and will argue with anyone about how glorious it is.  But having moved deeper into Lincolnshire a year ago, it does make you realise upon returning what the area is lacking.  It's not just a lick of paint that we're behind everyone else, we're flipping miles behind everyone else!

The most frustrating thing is that we ignore the biggest asset we've got, our water!!  The area around the Brayford in Lincoln is hustle, bustle and a hive of activity.  Yet it's bloody tiny.  You can echo this sentiment at so many town and cities who have capitalised on what assets they've got at their disposal, regardless of how big or small they are.
We've got so much opportunity to work with that yet we completely ignore it.

One example - Paddleboarding.  It's got massive over the last few years, probably a Lockdown knock-on with people looking more at staying closer to home etc.  You ventured down the seafront on a remotely nice day with the tide in and it was packed with 'boarders.   You've got a local company in Ebb & Flo who were begging for a bit of support to help capitalise on that....nah, not for us. https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/news/grimsby-news/ebb--flo-watersports-centre-8040025

There is so much potential to do something with the water in front of us, right from the Fitties/Tetney Marshes right along the front, beyond the North Prom, through the Dock and into the Freshney.  Yet we can't even support local businesses doing something off their own back.

We're not Leeds, we're a relatively small town that's cut off from the rest of the country.  But the comparison between attitudes is completely valid.  We're not forward thinking, we're insular and we're frightened of change.  Until that mindset shifts the area will just continuing to fall further behind.

Quoted from diehardmariner

Some really excellent points on this thread.

You'll not meet anyone prouder of Grimsby and Cleethorpes as me. I bloody love the place and will argue with anyone about how glorious it is.  But having moved deeper into Lincolnshire a year ago, it does make you realise upon returning what the area is lacking.  It's not just a lick of paint that we're behind everyone else, we're flipping miles behind everyone else!

The most frustrating thing is that we ignore the biggest asset we've got, our water!!  The area around the Brayford in Lincoln is hustle, bustle and a hive of activity.  Yet it's bloody tiny.  You can echo this sentiment at so many town and cities who have capitalised on what assets they've got at their disposal, regardless of how big or small they are.
We've got so much opportunity to work with that yet we completely ignore it.

One example - Paddleboarding.  It's got massive over the last few years, probably a Lockdown knock-on with people looking more at staying closer to home etc.  You ventured down the seafront on a remotely nice day with the tide in and it was packed with 'boarders.   You've got a local company in Ebb & Flo who were begging for a bit of support to help capitalise on that....nah, not for us. https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/news/grimsby-news/ebb--flo-watersports-centre-8040025

There is so much potential to do something with the water in front of us, right from the Fitties/Tetney Marshes right along the front, beyond the North Prom, through the Dock and into the Freshney.  Yet we can't even support local businesses doing something off their own back.

We're not Leeds, we're a relatively small town that's cut off from the rest of the country.  But the comparison between attitudes is completely valid.  We're not forward thinking, we're insular and we're frightened of change.  Until that mindset shifts the area will just continuing to fall further behind.

This sadly, is absent spot on, what a joy it would be to get a forward thinking council, who when given grants and money, do not fritter it away and waste it.

There always seems to be a factor that holds the town back and that is the lack of vision from the council, which has been the case for years regardless of the political make up of it.

Redevelopment in other cities and areas has always needed the local council to have a clear vision of what they want to achieve and that vision has always been ambitious and aspirational. Often a separate body has been formed to deliver the vision and not get bogged down in politics.

It feels 'very Grimsby' that the council are putting money into the precinct, flogging a dead horse rather than using the opportunity to think bigger.

I don't know if Grimsby's budget is smaller than equivalent areas or what.

An earlier poster suggested that the long term regeneration of the town may be tied to the future of the football club. That worries me...the football club can be a catalyst for change and can be a focal point for regeneration in a given geographical area but the regeneration of Grimsby can't be tied to a football club. It has come from a vision and an aspiration for the whole area.

Quoted from HerveJosse

Compare Leeds with Bradford 10 mikes down the road . When I studied and worked in both 40 years ago the two cities were on a par now one is a booming modern city and the other is a shithole. Local government is part of the reason for the difference but not all both fall within West Yorkshire . The mass exodus of young well educated people capable of developing modern businesses from North East Lincs over the last 30 years is a significant reason for its decline and once the spiral starts it’s difficult to see what stops the decline . Opening up university entry to 50% plus of school leavers had the unintended consequence of shafting places like Grimsby. Lincoln by contrast had the foresight to develop a university which was arguably Mickey Mouse at first but is now quite highly regarded fed and has generated the redevelopment of the City

Let's not hold Lincoln up as some grandly ambitious forward-thinking council, the 2 universities have happened largely by themselves.  This is the council that's scrapping the Xmas market after all.

Quoted from OddShapedBalls

This is the council that's scrapping the Xmas market after all.

To be fair to Lincoln, several cities have, including…Leeds.

Quoted from Knut Anders Fosters Voles

To be fair to Lincoln, several cities have, including…Leeds.

And this may not be due to a lack of vision.

There is nothing more miserable in the run up to Christmas than sheltering from the freezing rain with your cup of eye wateringly expensive faux gluwhein while across the road the local Wetherspoons pumps out Slade at 'jet taking off' volume. And as you dodge the acres of flesh and false tan you are expected to buy authentic Alpine Christmas gifts like 20 quid wooden tree decorations and eat traditional fayre like churros. As the night wears on the dodging of flesh and fake tan gives way to avoiding the vomit and altercations between men children who are 'aving it.

And pretend that you are in Salzburg or Munich. But you're not, you're in Doncaster.

(or Birmingham, the Birmingham Christmas Fair is especially spirit crushing)

Quoted from RichMariner

This is exactly it. I appreciate Grimsby and Leeds are vastly different in so many ways.

But both have councils.

One has an ambition, an investment strategy, a passion to take opportunities to grow and thrive.

The other seems to have no idea whatsoever.

I'm not saying Grimsby could be like Leeds because it never will. But the fact remains that with an ambition and investment in the right areas, at the right time, it could improve Grimsby into something more than it currently is. What Leeds city centre offers now is very different from what it offered just 5-10 years ago. They use data to decide where bus lanes go, they have data to calculate footfall in certain areas, they have advertising space exactly where it will be seen most. And this is just skimming the surface.

When I walked along Cleethorpes prom I saw signs on the ground for a palm tree that wasn't even there.

To be fair Rich the same could be said about Lincoln, I used to contract and work at sites in Lincoln and it was a bit run down during the mid 90's but over the 20 years of living here its had a lot of investment what seems to be a forward thinking council (then again they could be crap at other things).

I have discussed with councillors about how you upgrade the area.
Take Lincoln for example. They have half a dozen direct London trains a day, we have none. Apparently we might get one sometime.
They have a dual carriageway to the A1, we have to go north to go south by motorway.
We should be pushing to get more trains, better trains and track and a dual carriageway to Lincoln.
If we could get connected to the rest of the country better, more investment would come. But let’s face it isn’t going to happen any time soon.

Local elections looming…people have the choice and the chance to at least try and force difference.

As stated, the fact Jackson and Fenty obtained significant control within our council and Fenty more with the portfolio he held, it’s astounding really.

I do understand why the council took back control of the shopping area because it does mean they can have much more involvement and decision making power.

Lincoln is a weird example, both BG and the Uni kind of developed on their own and left the city behind to some extent. I moved to Lincoln early 2000s and there was often a lot of negativity towards students, animosity at times, the redevelopment project had taken 20 years…control of land is a big issue in Lincoln and as a Local Authority, you get out of Lincoln and you realise services have been left behind in some areas. Local council wise, Lincoln City have made weird decisions although altering the Christmas market isn’t the worst decision, certainly not the decision it’s being made out to be.

Comparing somewhere like Leeds and Grimsby isn’t ever likely to help but I take Rich’s point. Similarly, Ska makes a point simply about wages and roles etc within councils. To push for change you need inspiring and positive folk with experience and drive…I’ve recently taken a role at an LA not too far away, my salary will be circa £50k, in say Merseyside, Salford, Nottinghamshire, even LCC it wipes be £55, May be £60k, albeit covering a larger area…in NELC a very similar role is being advertised at £42k…therein lies an issue.