Just Back  (merged)

That was utterly dire

One paced devoid of quality and ideas against an awful side. They set up 5-4-1 and a game plan and we never went for it. They had a CB with a fat gut who couldnt run FFS

Clifton should have scored in the first half and Mcatee hit the post in the 2nd but Kings Lynn had 2 good chances themselves.

I cant believe thats the same team as Saturday, completely cancelled out the positivity of that result.

Very very drunk off

Paul if you’re reading this, I beg you to stop playing Giles Coke. The evidence is there for all to see, you’ve even got the analyst you’ve always wanted who can back it up for you.

Notts was absolutely brilliant but it was one good game in about 4 months, this was more like what we’ve been used to and it’s garbage.

Thank intercourse the pre match meal in steels was ace

I dont blame Coke. Thats not his type of game. We had no need for a holding midfielder tonight and we all could see that. Bring a winger on at HT and put harry inside

Go 2 up top, hell bring lenny on

We made it so easy for them

Very frustrating.
A draw was a fair result I think.
They came to do a job on us by packing the midfield.
We had nothing out wide and Hurst unwilling to change anything and not making a substitution until the 70 the minute, to late again.
Nevermind onward to Saturday and three points UTM

That was truly dire. What else to say?

Quoted from Hagrid

I dont blame Coke. Thats not his type of game. We had no need for a holding midfielder tonight and we all could see that. Bring a winger on at HT and put harry inside

Go 2 up top, hell bring lenny on

We made it so easy for them

I agree we did make it easy for them , Coulson their centre half looked three stone over weight and could barely run why didn’t we try to play around him rather than through him ? Poor from us tonight imo

Good point tonight, I’m getting used to this sustainable football. Joking apart that was dire. God knows why we played a holding midfielder against them. They must be buzzing how easy we made it for them, expect the same from aldershot on Saturday

Time to rest Coke and Taylor

Utter garbage. Looked like we thought we just had to turn up.

Whoever did the motivation speech failed miserably and I couldn’t even name a man of the match.

Poor.

I thought we were actually pretty good in the first half.did everything but score. However 2nd half we ran out of steam and ideas, evidenced by the anonymity of Raikhy and clifton who had been excellent in the 1st half.other than those 2 too many of our better players, namely efete, sousa, McAfee and taylor had off days .
Not convinced by amos , enthusiastic but his touch is poor. Burgess and scannell did very little to impress
Fair play to k.l. who won lots of little battles, and it really wouldn't have been a massive surprise if they'd taken 1 of their couple of very good chances. Their no.14 ip front (Linton?) Ran himself into the ground
Cant afford to blow hot n cold with your performance,  nor do you deserve to go up if you cant break down limited teams like k.l.
Ps first home games for c.3 years,the improvement in the food and drinks was huge.really enjoyed that, if not the result on the pitch!

Typically drab non league affair with only one team trying to play football and score goals. The other just hell bent on packing the defence and midfield and wasting as much time as possible.

We just can't sniff out a goal and the decision making in the final third is very poor. They concede 2 goals per game and we only created 3 decent chances.

How many points have we dropped to poor bottom half sides?

Quoted from ginnywings

Typically drab non league affair with only one team trying to play football and score goals. The other just hell bent on packing the defence and midfield and wasting as much time as possible.

We just can't sniff out a goal and the decision making in the final third is very poor. They concede 2 goals per game and we only created 3 decent chances.

How many points have we dropped to poor bottom half sides?

Gary Croft summed it up very well on the radio on the way home, we tried to play through them without having the quality to do it and without the nous to change it.

I thought we played well. We did everything but score. We set out to pass them to death and tire them out, but credit to them that they held on.

We were incredibly on top when the subs were made and I think they actually hindered us and we could not get our rhythm back. Had we not made subs Hurst would have been slaughtered so he cannot win.

I was sure MacAtee's shot that hit the post was going in, but it faded at the last second. Just one of those frustrating nights.

I know people are as frustrated as I am, but there is no longer the aimless hoofs and we are trying to do everything the right way, which is the way to go.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Gary Croft summed it up very well on the radio on the way home, we tried to play through them without having the quality to do it and without the nous to change it.

Can't argue with that. We didn't move the ball quickly enough to pull them out of shape and we didn't get down the sides of them enough. When we did, the crosses were poor.

Hurst seems adamant the Handball in the Box was a pen. Have to say it looked it but i was at Notts on Saturday and we were given a a very soft one

These things even themselves out

Needed 2 up top , to occupy their CB’s .. leaving space for McAtee …  too cautious from players / manager . A few seconds quicker with passes / movements  and maybe mix it up a bit .. 4 points from those last 2 fixtures would have been accepted .. on we go , having hopefully learnt something about breaking down / playing against teams like that …. Well defended and class work rate by KL…

The in-game management from Hurst was really really poor tonight. Its always been his biggest weakness but even after the minor miracle of seeing the light and making an early tactical change on Saturday he doesn't learn. Should have given that team 10 minutes of the 2nd half at most not 25. Playing Coke, slow deep lying midfielder for so long against such a defensive side was really inexcusable.

Sousa is fine for dragging us up the pitch or tiring out a side that has to run back to defend against him. But we were already far up the pitch, and they were already back to defend, and so his going to pieces in and around the box was just a gift to them. You don't want him on the pitch in that situation really.

Really disappointed after Saturday's efforts.

Perfectly executed game plan by one of the teams this evening. Spoil, time waste and avoid losing at all costs.

Fking awful to watch but yet again in a tight game we failed to take our 1 or 2 premium chances, the ref and lino completely missed what must have been the most blatant handball seen at Blundell Park since Nathan Pond saved that one against Lincoln.

As all others have said, too ponderous, over complicated , too ineffective.

Looks like it was a nailed on penalty not given.

https://twitter.com/danl1977/status/1491182728704045057?t=fQi2oAMz8GdUXQCd4PqhDA&s=19

We were poor. Coke is ponderous and there were too many 5/10 tonight. Sousa was not effective , Amos had a lot of poor first touches and Taylor looked tired. Effete looks better going forward than our forwards, No panic but we look a bit mid table to me and it was very dull. JMD is needed urgently and why do we not sling a few crosses in late in the game as oposed to passing sidewards.
Truthfully did not recognise Scannel when he came on. He actually worked hard but where was Wright again. On to the next one , cannot be any worse

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

Looks like it was a nailed on penalty not given.

https://twitter.com/danl1977/status/1491182728704045057?t=fQi2oAMz8GdUXQCd4PqhDA&s=19

We'd probably have missed the penalty anyway, given our record!

King's Lynn came to do a job and did whatever was necessary to get a point; including a blatant handball. From their point of view that risk paid off.

They had the best chances I thought and how they missed one of them especially I do not know. Great save by their keeper from Clifton and McAtee hitting the post just about summed our night up. Whilst we were too slow in our build up play, they were disciplined and didn't come out of position much for us to cut them open. Taylor looked shattered to me from the start and for a man who is normally very good in the air, their 24 who was the smallest man on the pitch kept beating him in the air.

Disappointing result and with Fox out for 2 months we need another man in the middle because Coke slows us down far too much.

Well there goes the late winner at Notts Co with those points dropped tonight. Had to follow up Saturdays great performance with a result there.

I don’t think he is the reason we didn’t win but Coke really needs upgrading. Hurst is holding on to these last two loans but he can’t afford to especially now Fox is out. We need a good central midfielder fast.

Classic Hurst tonight leaving it until the last 15 to change things at home against second bottom. Compare that to Bromley away to us last month. 1-1 with 30 minutes to go and they stick another centre forward on to go for the winner…

Bit baffled by KL's time wasting when they're about 100 points off safety.

About the most non league game I've watched in a while. A team who came to frustrate and slow the game down successfully getting a point off us at home gives memories of many a drab affair. We were unlucky not to score one and if one of those chances went in I doubt they would have been able to offer an equaliser which makes it all the more frustrating. Also most blatant handball in some time completely not given, the guy legit palmed the ball away.

I see the overreacting is in full force as usual, if we win, lose or draw there are overly positive or negative reactions to be had. A frustrating night for sure but if people expected us to stomp everyone because we got a win out of Notts County then they are setting themselves up for disappointment when games like this roll around.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

I thought we played well. We did everything but score. We set out to pass them to death and tire them out, but credit to them that they held on.

We were incredibly on top when the subs were made and I think they actually hindered us and we could not get our rhythm back. Had we not made subs Hurst would have been slaughtered so he cannot win.

I was sure MacAtee's shot that hit the post was going in, but it faded at the last second. Just one of those frustrating nights.

I know people are as frustrated as I am, but there is no longer the aimless hoofs and we are trying to do everything the right way, which is the way to go.

Sorry but you are on a different planet to me. If a team sets up a bank of nine let’s you have all the ball and you pass it sideways for 90 minutes and don’t score it doesn’t mean you have played well.

Quoted from HerveJosse

Sorry but you are on a different planet to me. If a team sets up a bank of nine let’s you have all the ball and you pass it sideways for 90 minutes and don’t score it doesn’t mean you have played well.

I'm on the same planet as you for a change.

It was obvious they weren't going to get impatient and break from their defensive structure to close us down so we should have tried something different.

Deep into 6 minutes of added time and we still had no urgency to put the ball in the box. Thought it was harsh of the ref to blow just as the ball finally got into the box though at the end.

Echo everything said about Taylor and Cokes impact but what I found strange was Sousa being given a licence to move inside and across rather than work the line with Efete. We lacked width so won too few corners or free kicks in wide positions.
When we had the chance to cross we made yet another unnecessary pass. If Sousa doesn't want to be a winger providing assists let Scannel or Abrahams try to get round the full backs. On the few occasions we had the chance of an overload out wide the cross was terrible like most of the corners. Easy game for their keeper.
The entire Youngs Upper could see the futility of carrying the ball towards a crowded penalty area and were demanding a change but Hurst just had to keep Coke on the pitch. In fact, at the start of the first half, Coke was pushed forward to step things up a gear ironically! Turgid confirmation that our squad is shallow and mid table at best.
Harry tried his best to push forward at pace but his touch let him down and McAtee, for all his skills and energy, made some poor decisions in good positions. We were nearly caught out a couple of times with back passes and we looked vulnerable when they whipped several crosses in. I don't know why we have both Raikhy and Burgess when we need a replacement for Max's pace and crosses.

Quoted from crusty ole pie

Thank intercourse the pre match meal in steels was ace

Looks like our players had theirs in there too  

A typical non league night and also probably highlights why teams like Kings Lynne always end up going down anyway…they never play for a win, especially away from home, get happy with a point but it’ll never be enough.

Neither side were particularly effective, both had a chance or two to Nick a goal but hardly a spectacle of football.

The over reaction from some fans at the end was laughable, there’s a bloke near me that gives a sense of desperately wanting us to fail to justify his existence whilst offering nothing in the way of constructive criticism.

I’m not saying the over reaction when we win is helpful either but people talked about town fans being embarrassing at Notts county, last night I saw grown men, not young lads either desperate to get to the front at the end to just shout expletives about how excrement we were…almost like they don’t understand that the players will be in no doubt about our performance.

All very weird. It won’t be the first game like that and it certainly won’t be the last…

Kings Lynn came to do a job and carried it out.  We huffed and puffed but didn’t have the pace or quality to get through all the men behind the ball.  Gutted about Foxy and Max.  I think we have to put this behind us, learn from it and move on to Saturday.  A missed opportunity to close the gap but that’s football I guess.

A proper manager would have won that game

Just a different game to Saturday.

We’re a decent side when teams come on to us but when we have to break down a back 5 with three central defenders and 2 v 1s against McAtee and Sousa, we struggle. We did very little off the ball last night, Taylor particularly, and therefore we had very few forward passing options.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Just a different game to Saturday.

We’re a decent side when teams come on to us but when we have to break down a back 5 with three central defenders and 2 v 1s against McAtee and Sousa, we struggle. We did very little off the ball last night, Taylor particularly, and therefore we had very few forward passing options.

I was surprised to not see Lenny come on for Taylor alongside Abrahams

Cannot understand why we played effectively two holding midfielders last night
Like Southgate - it's not fecking FIFA!
Why?
KL are second bottom; ship loads of goals; had an overweight CH; and 12pts off safety

You can't be worried surely that we will get overrun in midfield against a team with those credentials

The problem was not (in the main) no natural goalscorer but very poor crosses into the box, especially Amos and Sousa

Just feel if we get one we will get a few - but it's getting the one

We overpass; don't shoot enough; and are simply not clinical

It felt like 2011-15 all over again

That said 4pts from last two games I think most if us would have taken it - just not the way it's panned out

Fox, JMD, Wright are big losses - losing quite a bit of creativity, energy and experience in those three

Onward....

I think it was a case that very few players were anywhere near their best. Also perhaps a bit of complacency and we just didn't work hard enough to try and stretch them enough. I so think fatigue was probably an issue as well, because McAtee was too knackered to run much for the last 20 odd minutes or so. Their wide men didn't do any real attacking but worked extremely hard to stop the likes of Efete and Sousa turning inside with the ball so it inevitably was passed back or across the line to the central midfielders. It's always a surprise to me when you see professionals looking like they have no idea what they need to do when the original gameplan doesn't work.

As I said in the match thread at half-time, I'd have like to have seen a change in shape with Abrahams (or even LJL) put up alongside Taylor to offer something else. Taylor wasn't involved much but showed one or two good touches. The problem was, he was isolated and there just wasn't the room to make it easy to get many decent passes into his feet. Another body alongside him would at least have given their massed defence something to think about.

Depth in central midfield is an issue with Fox out for a good spell as, I'm sorry to say, Clifton didn't really look like he was up to the role when he was moved back there. Just not quite tidy enough in possession. Unfortunately, Coke trundling around isn't going to be able to do much in most games either. Burgess looked like a lightweight novice, buzzing around and rarely completing a pass.

You can't expect to play well every game in a season, but we just don't offer enough, even against the weakest teams when one or two players are below par.

GTFC = It's the hope that kills you.

The trouble is we don't have enough decent players to come on when players are having a bad game  Coke and Taylor were completely off but who do you replace them with. The tactics were wrong tonight but what other way can we play with the squad we have got. Needs serious rebuilding as soon as possible - and that costs money and needs an improvement in the scouting department

Quoted from golfer

The trouble is we don't have enough decent players to come on when players are having a bad game  Coke and Taylor were completely off but who do you replace them with. The tactics were wrong tonight but what other way can we play with the squad we have got. Needs serious rebuilding as soon as possible - and that costs money and needs an improvement in the scouting department

absolutely agree

Quoted from pontoonlew

Paul if you’re reading this, I beg you to stop playing Giles Coke. The evidence is there for all to see, you’ve even got the analyst you’ve always wanted who can back it up for you.

Notts was absolutely brilliant but it was one good game in about 4 months, this was more like what we’ve been used to and it’s garbage.

One good game in about four months? Not having that. We've either played well or played well enough to get the points in most of our games (last night and Bromley being the exceptions) since the turn of the year.

Quoted from Son of Cod

One good game in about four months? Not having that. We've either played well or played well enough to get the points in most of our games (last night and Bromley being the exceptions) since the turn of the year.

We were absolutely brilliant for the first half hour against Bromley. By the second half though we looked exhausted.

I'm not Coke's biggest fan, but we were created less chances and allowed Kings Lynn to get in and around our box more when he went off. Hurst made the attacking subs that we wanted to see, but they turned us into a less potent attacking force.

We created enough chances to win the game, but our lack of composure in the box was disappointing. Congratulations to King's Lynn for their discipline in sticking to their game plan of sitting deep and frustrating us.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Gary Croft summed it up very well on the radio on the way home, we tried to play through them without having the quality to do it and without the nous to change it.

He also said Town shouldn’t be to disappointed with last nights performance to add a little balance……

Even the best sides in the world can be frustrated by teams that put every man behind the ball and just defend their penalty area. It happens, if we scored with one of our chances in the first half it would have been different but we didn't.  excrement happens, move on.

Hope Aldershot don't adopt the same tactics on Saturday.

Quoted from mimma

Even the best sides in the world can be frustrated by teams that put every man behind the ball and just defend their penalty area. It happens, if we scored with one of our chances in the first half it would have been different but we didn't.  excrement happens, move on.

Hope Aldershot don't adopt the same tactics on Saturday.

But they will. We will be hamstrung (bad word, I know) by the fact that anyone who scouted us either last night or against Bromley will report that we struggle to break down teams with three centre backs. We actually need someone to get in the channels between the wing back and the wide players in the back three. Hurst bemoaned the lack of forward runners last night - sadly, we don't seem to be learning.

Quoted from Son of Cod

One good game in about four months? Not having that. We've either played well or played well enough to get the points in most of our games (last night and Bromley being the exceptions) since the turn of the year.

I can't class a game that we've lost as a 'good game' though, so how many victories in the past 4 months could you honestly say were any good aside from Notts? Two laboured wins against Wealdstone and Southend at home aren't it for me, you can maybe say Altrincham at an absolute push if you're a real optimist. It's simply not good enough.

Last night proved to me again that Hurst is not the man for the job at this football club, the same errors time and time again. One superb game at Notts County isn't enough to change my mind. Hurst is still playing Coke, he's still taking ages to make subs and is still playing people out of position because he's so scared of us losing our so-called 'shape'.

I'm a big believer in the fact that people should be excused for making a mistake, so long as it's not the same mistake constantly. People making the same mistakes every single time are either refusing to learn or are just too daft to stop making it. I'm not sure which category Hurst falls in right now but neither are good.

Quoted from pontoonlew

I can't class a game that we've lost as a 'good game' though, so how many victories in the past 4 months could you honestly say were any good aside from Notts? Two laboured wins against Wealdstone and Southend at home aren't it for me, you can maybe say Altrincham at an absolute push if you're a real optimist. It's simply not good enough.

Last night proved to me again that Hurst is not the man for the job at this football club, the same errors time and time again. One superb game at Notts County isn't enough to change my mind. Hurst is still playing Coke, he's still taking ages to make subs and is still playing people out of position because he's so scared of us losing our so-called 'shape'.

I'm a big believer in the fact that people should be excused for making a mistake, so long as it's not the same mistake constantly. People making the same mistakes every single time are either refusing to learn or are just too daft to stop making it. I'm not sure which category Hurst falls in right now but neither are good.

tbf he had scannel ready to come on at 62 minutes but the ball wouldn't go out of play

i'd also Ask who he's playing out of position? and if you Say clifton i'd disagree because the last 25 minutes of him playing in the middle of the park showed once again that he isnt good enough there.

Quoted from golfer

The trouble is we don't have enough decent players to come on when players are having a bad game  Coke and Taylor were completely off but who do you replace them with. The tactics were wrong tonight but what other way can we play with the squad we have got. Needs serious rebuilding as soon as possible - and that costs money and needs an improvement in the scouting department

If you bought a house through a builder and it blew down in the wind, would you use the same builder to construct a new one?

Quoted from Hagrid

tbf he had scannel ready to come on at 62 minutes but the ball wouldn't go out of play

i'd also Ask who he's playing out of position? and if you Say clifton i'd disagree because the last 25 minutes of him playing in the middle of the park showed once again that he isnt good enough there.

But he's not a left-winger either is he? We all know why Clifton is played left-wing, it's to protect our left-backs and to contribute to more phases of play which is a negative tactic IMO. If Clifton isn't a CM then he shouldn't be playing regardless but I'm absolutely sure he's a better option in there than Coke.

We played Smith at RB for a few games when it wasn't working, we've signed Abrahams who Hurst has dumped out on the wing.

Quoted from pontoonlew

But he's not a left-winger either is he? We all know why Clifton is played left-wing, it's to protect our left-backs and to contribute to more phases of play which is a negative tactic IMO. If Clifton isn't a CM then he shouldn't be playing regardless but I'm absolutely sure he's a better option in there than Coke.

We played Smith at RB for a few games when it wasn't working, we've signed Abrahams who Hurst has dumped out on the wing.

Unfortunately Fox, who proved in 20 minutes on Saturday that he's a better option there than either Coke or Clifton, is now crocked and we need a replacement quickly.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Unfortunately Fox, who proved in 20 minutes on Saturday that he's a better option there than either Coke or Clifton, is now crocked and we need a replacement quickly.

I dont think burgess- In his limited time on the pitch thus far- Looks the answer either

Quoted from Hagrid

I dont think burgess- In his limited time on the pitch thus far- Looks the answer either

He was on for 9 minutes!

It would be poor of me to criticise Clifton playing on the left last night when I looked at the 11 before the game and raised an eyebrow but still thought it would be enough.

He’s right footed though and not known for dribbling and cutting inside. Not known for having a great weak foot either or loads of pace. It’s a defensive move. Acceptable away from home or maybe at home to the likes of Chesterfield but at home to Kings Lynn? No way. And none of that is knocking Clifton because that’s not his skill set.

We are stacked for wingers right now. Ok, some are unfit. But Hurst actually wanted Joel Grant and doesn’t play him. He opted to keep Scannell and get him fit only to then tell him he will have limited opportunities.

Why not Abrahams on the left at the least where he’s already played a few times and we’re led to believe he is that type of player anyway? I think Jackson from the Telerag said Hurst would like another winger as well. If I was S and P it would be a “no”.

Not good enough last night. Not sure how people can still try and defend it. It’s also not frothing-at-the-mouth bad either, but it’s definitely a bad result which could have been avoided.

Another game where we were average at best at home.
Notts Co, chesterfield and Halifax at home. All Ok but 1 point.
Southend, Altrincham, Wealdstone, KL - being generous, all average at best - 10 points.
Bromley - diabolical.

BTW another game where when we have gone for it the last 5 minutes - there has been absolutely no clue of who is supposed to be doing what or where. That is something that also needs addressing.

Quoted from pontoonlew

He was on for 9 minutes!

Says it all then doesnt it.

I don't think we can criticise Clifton too much for his performances on the left. Last night, he was the only one of the attackers who found any space during the first half. Unfortunate when he broke down the line that he scuffed his attempted cross (or shot) when close in to the keeper and his decent effort when he went through the middle was well-saved (though I think he should perhaps have scored). He certainly got in behind their defence more than anybody else in our team!

I think it probably didn't help Clifton that his move to central midfield came at the point when Raikhy was clearly knackered and had lost the ability to impact the game and the same goes for McAtee who wasn't making the runs or coming to receive the ball in the same way he had done earlier on.

We'd have done a lot better with more guile in the form of JMD but he obviously wasn't available and no Wright for the option to give somebody to run at the full-back. Scannell looked lively when he came on despite having 2 men on him pretty much all the time so perhaps he'll be more of an option for the future?

Ultimately, I think we need to change the formation against teams who are going to 'park the bus' for a point. 4-3-3 or 4-3-1-2 with two proper forwards to give them something to think about. Heck, even try 4-2-2-2 with Raikhy and McAtee in behind Taylor and Abrahams as both are willing to run wide if required and the defensive two (who would have to be Coke and Clifton) aren't all that bad on the ball, if not brilliant.

Quoted from Hagrid

Says it all then doesnt it.

Not sure it says much about the player if that’s what you mean. We have a Manager who thought playing Giles coke against a team on Saturday who break quickly and pass the ball quickly was a good idea (and with Pearson and waterfall as the back 2 it added to the madness). He comes off at half time and fox makes a massive difference when he comes on with high energy.

The same manager picks the same player against a team who were never going to come and play open attacking football and so in effect coke is a waste of an opportunity for someone else to have an opportunity to push forward or show their worth and he gives him 9 minutes.

I think this is more about the manager than the player. I have given hurst the benefit of the doubt for a while now, and the way we played for a lot of Saturday backs that, but the consistent picking of coke in these types of situations really makes me question whether it is stubbornness (and that has been thrown at him a number of times e.g. monkhouse) or whether it is just negativity (again an accusation by some). The only other option is incompetence and I don’t think a manager who has been around for that long with even mixed success (us and Shrewsbury) can be incompetent.

Didn’t go last night, but so deflating after the high of Saturday.

UTFM

Quoted from Posh Harry

Not sure it says much about the player if that’s what you mean. We have a Manager who thought playing Giles coke against a team on Saturday who break quickly and pass the ball quickly was a good idea (and with Pearson and waterfall as the back 2 it added to the madness). He comes off at half time and fox makes a massive difference when he comes on with high energy.

The same manager picks the same player against a team who were never going to come and play open attacking football and so in effect coke is a waste of an opportunity for someone else to have an opportunity to push forward or show their worth and he gives him 9 minutes.

I think this is more about the manager than the player. I have given hurst the benefit of the doubt for a while now, and the way we played for a lot of Saturday backs that, but the consistent picking of coke in these types of situations really makes me question whether it is stubbornness (and that has been thrown at him a number of times e.g. monkhouse) or whether it is just negativity (again an accusation by some). The only other option is incompetence and I don’t think a manager who has been around for that long with even mixed success (us and Shrewsbury) can be incompetent.

Didn’t go last night, but so deflating after the high of Saturday.

UTFM

i've said earlier on im not blaming Coke, Yesterday wasnt suited to what he offers, But myself and all around is stated within 20 minutes last night he wasnt required. We did not need a holding midfield player and im amazed we continued with it.

but then someone further made a point that we created even less when he went off which again was true

Quoted from pontoonlew

I can't class a game that we've lost as a 'good game' though, so how many victories in the past 4 months could you honestly say were any good aside from Notts? Two laboured wins against Wealdstone and Southend at home aren't it for me, you can maybe say Altrincham at an absolute push if you're a real optimist. It's simply not good enough.

Last night proved to me again that Hurst is not the man for the job at this football club, the same errors time and time again. One superb game at Notts County isn't enough to change my mind. Hurst is still playing Coke, he's still taking ages to make subs and is still playing people out of position because he's so scared of us losing our so-called 'shape'.

I'm a big believer in the fact that people should be excused for making a mistake, so long as it's not the same mistake constantly. People making the same mistakes every single time are either refusing to learn or are just too daft to stop making it. I'm not sure which category Hurst falls in right now but neither are good.

Right, so a bad performance is relevant to the conversation at all times but when there's a good performance we're only talking about the ones that suit your agenda?

I definitely understand the frustrations around the same mistakes, however if you're Paul Hurst you probably don't see them as something that's had a negative impact on his career. If you breakdown his career...

Ilkeston and Boston - good jobs
Town first time - good job, achieved what he was employed to do
Shrewsbury - massively overachieved
Ipswich - bad job but given a shitter of a task and ousted way too quickly
Scunny - see Ipswich job
Town second time - doing slightly worse than you'd expect but we're still in touch with his remit this season, which was playoffs/stability

...he probably doesn't see any of the criticisms that you're laying at his door as valid, because he's either done well at every single job he's had or he's been the victim of a very harsh sacking. So why would he change his methods when, by and large, they've worked throughout his entire managerial career?

I quite like Hurst, but I'd have to say that he was employed to keep us away from the drop in the first place and failed to do this. Don't get me wrong, I don't think it was an easy job, but thought he'd get us to safety when he took over. Alas, we know what a shambles he inherited and the lockdown due to the pandemic when he took over probably meant it was much more difficult to attract the right sort of players. Clubs were keen to keep the decent players they had on the books and you wouldn't get many in-demand players happy to relocate somewhere with lots of restrictions in place at the time.

Given the huge amount of dead weight on the books at the start of the season and so many new players coming, it was always going to be tough to compete for the top spot this year but I certainly think we ought to be finishing in a play-off spot this season. The terrible run of results until recently has put that at risk after the remarkable early form, but if we play to the best of our potential, we should still be in with a shot come the end of the season. We're pretty thin on the ground in many areas, as Fox's absence shows, so it unfortunately isn't going to take much to knock us out of our stride.

We were 6 points from the play off spots last week and are now 3 points off them. We have taken 7 points from the last three games and had the players done their jobs last night and made the most of some very promising situations, we would now be 1 point from the play off spots. We've also moved up the table one place.

Yes, last night was frustrating and we should have won, but we didn't. It happens.

Quoted from ginnywings

We were 6 points from the play off spots last week and are now 3 points off them. We have taken 7 points from the last three games and had the players done their jobs last night and made the most of some very promising situations, we would now be 1 point from the play off spots. We've also moved up the table one place.

Yes, last night was frustrating and we should have won, but we didn't. It happens.

A very important point (!) The table is looking better and a win on Saturday and we will be in the play off mix. I'm sure we would all settle for a play off spot after such a topsy turvy season and it's all to play for.

We can surely forgive last night and focus on the main prize.

Quoted from Son of Cod

Right, so a bad performance is relevant to the conversation at all times but when there's a good performance we're only talking about the ones that suit your agenda?

I definitely understand the frustrations around the same mistakes, however if you're Paul Hurst you probably don't see them as something that's had a negative impact on his career. If you breakdown his career...

Ilkeston and Boston - good jobs
Town first time - good job, achieved what he was employed to do
Shrewsbury - massively overachieved
Ipswich - bad job but given a shitter of a task and ousted way too quickly
Scunny - see Ipswich job
Town second time - doing slightly worse than you'd expect but we're still in touch with his remit this season, which was playoffs/stability

...he probably doesn't see any of the criticisms that you're laying at his door as valid, because he's either done well at every single job he's had or he's been the victim of a very harsh sacking. So why would he change his methods when, by and large, they've worked throughout his entire managerial career?

I'm not sure you can say not counting us losing as a 'good game' as an agenda, we can't possibly have gotten to that point surely?

You say they've worked but I think we took too long to go up last time round and his stubborn decisions had something to do with that. On top of that, his record in the past 3 years is absolutely atrocious so how long do you rely on methods from 6-7 years ago? The Ipswich job being a 'shitter of a task' is a great big myth as well, he spent far more money than McCarthy did the previous season but wasted it, ironically on signing the players he used at Shrewsbury, a move some might describe as slightly stubbourn!

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

A very important point (!) The table is looking better and a win on Saturday and we will be in the play off mix. I'm sure we would all settle for a play off spot after such a topsy turvy season and it's all to play for.

We can surely forgive last night and focus on the main prize.

You would hope so, but it's all doom and gloom on here, with loads of part time football managers seemingly knowing more about the game than a bloke with hundreds of league games and hundreds more as a manager.

Quoted from ginnywings

You would hope so, but it's all doom and gloom on here, with loads of part time football managers seemingly knowing more about the game than a bloke with hundreds of league games and hundreds more as a manager.

I would have been more critical if we hadn't put the effort in or just lumped it and hoped for the best but every player gave his all. We should have won, we should have a penalty and we totally dominated the game. Yes we could have tried some different things/formations but I thought a goal would definitely come. When we did change things we lost momentum so it was just one of those nights. Fair play to KL for keeping us out.

Quoted from pontoonlew

I'm not sure you can say not counting us losing as a 'good game' as an agenda, we can't possibly have gotten to that point surely?

You say they've worked but I think we took too long to go up last time round and his stubborn decisions had something to do with that. On top of that, his record in the past 3 years is absolutely atrocious so how long do you rely on methods from 6-7 years ago? The Ipswich job being a 'shitter of a task' is a great big myth as well, he spent far more money than McCarthy did the previous season but wasted it, ironically on signing the players he used at Shrewsbury, a move some might describe as slightly stubbourn!

They have had 6 managers since Hurst in less than 4 years, so...

Quoted from pontoonlew

I'm not sure you can say not counting us losing as a 'good game' as an agenda, we can't possibly have gotten to that point surely?

You say they've worked but I think we took too long to go up last time round and his stubborn decisions had something to do with that. On top of that, his record in the past 3 years is absolutely atrocious so how long do you rely on methods from 6-7 years ago? The Ipswich job being a 'shitter of a task' is a great big myth as well, he spent far more money than McCarthy did the previous season but wasted it, ironically on signing the players he used at Shrewsbury, a move some might describe as slightly stubbourn!

By agenda, I meant the clear anti-Hurst bias that you've had across both his reigns here. Not denying his record isn't great since going to Ipswich, but you also can't deny that he wasn't given a fair crack of the whip both there and at Scunny. He spent far more money at Ipswich than McCarthy because McCarthy was given absolutely pittance but Hurst wasn't exactly given a competitive Championship budget. He was given a top end L1 budget, so he signed top end L1 players at that time. McCarthy also quit because their fans are known idiots who expected a promotion push on said pittance budget and as has been said their board has gone onto be incredibly trigger happy so I don't think shitter of a task is too wide of the mark.

Regarding it taking too long for us to go up last time, I'll once again say what I've now said countless times to no response of any merit whatsoever from any of the Hurst Out lot...we never had a title winning budget. We had a budget to get us into the playoffs and he delivered that in 80% of his full seasons with us, the 20% being his first full season. How long do you think is a reasonable amount of time for us to get out of this division if you're given a top 5 budget over a title winning budget? I think a lot of the points you raise are definitely valid by the way and they're things that frustrate me about Hurst too, but I just find so much of the Hurst criticism to be incredibly knee-jerk.

Quoted from ginnywings

They have had 6 managers since Hurst in less than 4 years, so...

Cant speak facts like that on here

Quoted from Son of Cod

We had a budget to get us into the playoffs and he delivered that in 80% of his full seasons with us, the 20% being his first full season.

We had a "competitive" budget whatever that means. I got told it wasn't a top 5 budget though, meaning he technically over-achieved.

Since leaving Shrewsbury he's taken 3 pretty awful jobs. At Ipswich he was recruited because of his lower league credentials, the best players were sold which he was conveniently blamed for. At Scunny he was in conflict with Peter Swann pretty quickly. I always remember listening to RH one Saturday night and Matt Dean spoke to Hurst and Peter Swann. They both said totally different things regarding January transfers which told me the two of them weren't going to be working with one another much longer.

Then he came here, a club in freefall with the owner in the process of selling up.

Quoted from Hagrid

Cant speak facts like that on here

What a load of nosense. Lambert was there for 2.5 years, Cook for nearly a year and the current manager for over a year.

Hurst wasn't THAT bad at Scunny, they had a team akin to what Newell 'built' here, talent but bad attitudes.

Quoted from jamesgtfc

We had a "competitive" budget whatever that means. I got told it wasn't a top 5 budget though, meaning he technically over-achieved.

Since leaving Shrewsbury he's taken 3 pretty awful jobs. At Ipswich he was recruited because of his lower league credentials, the best players were sold which he was conveniently blamed for. At Scunny he was in conflict with Peter Swann pretty quickly. I always remember listening to RH one Saturday night and Matt Dean spoke to Hurst and Peter Swann. They both said totally different things regarding January transfers which told me the two of them weren't going to be working with one another much longer.

Then he came here, a club in freefall with the owner in the process of selling up.

I'd be bowled over if we didn't have a top 5 budget for the entirety of our first jolly down in this division! And yeah, I seem to remember there being a bit of Swann/Hurst beef on Radio Humberside.

Quoted from Son of Cod

By agenda, I meant the clear anti-Hurst bias that you've had across both his reigns here. Not denying his record isn't great since going to Ipswich, but you also can't deny that he wasn't given a fair crack of the whip both there and at Scunny. He spent far more money at Ipswich than McCarthy because McCarthy was given absolutely pittance but Hurst wasn't exactly given a competitive Championship budget. He was given a top end L1 budget, so he signed top end L1 players at that time. McCarthy also quit because their fans are known idiots who expected a promotion push on said pittance budget and as has been said their board has gone onto be incredibly trigger happy so I don't think shitter of a task is too wide of the mark.

Regarding it taking too long for us to go up last time, I'll once again say what I've now said countless times to no response of any merit whatsoever from any of the Hurst Out lot...we never had a title winning budget. We had a budget to get us into the playoffs and he delivered that in 80% of his full seasons with us, the 20% being his first full season. How long do you think is a reasonable amount of time for us to get out of this division if you're given a top 5 budget over a title winning budget? I think a lot of the points you raise are definitely valid by the way and they're things that frustrate me about Hurst too, but I just find so much of the Hurst criticism to be incredibly knee-jerk.

Seeing as you obviously have details of our budgets, what level is our budget this season?

Quoted from ginnywings

They have had 6 managers since Hurst in less than 4 years, so...

Tidying up the mess he made

At the time I didn’t think Hurst was ready for a managerial post at that level. I don’t believe he had the tactical competency or the player contacts, and so it proved really. It was a bit of an over promotion for me. I do think he’s a good manager at the L1/2/NL level though.

Quoted from pen penfras

What a load of nosense. Lambert was there for 2.5 years, Cook for nearly a year and the current manager for over a year.

Hurst wasn't THAT bad at Scunny, they had a team akin to what Newell 'built' here, talent but bad attitudes.

Only it's not.

McCarthy left in April 2018, which is less than four years ago. Since then, they have had eight caretaker managers and permanent managers. Only Lambert has managed more than 100 games in that time.

The fact Lambert has taken up almost  2 1/2 years of that time makes it worse, not better.

Cook lasted 9 months and the current manager has been there 2 months, so clearly not nonsense.

Quoted from ginnywings

Only it's not.

McCarthy left in April 2018, which is less than four years ago. Since then, they have had eight caretaker managers and permanent managers. Only Lambert has managed more than 100 games in that time.

The fact Lambert has taken up almost  2 1/2 years of that time makes it worse, not better.

Cook lasted 9 months and the current manager has been there 2 months, so clearly not nonsense.

Caretaker managers don't count as managers unless you're trying to make a point that's not there.

Hurst won once in 15 games and that's sacking territory regardless of how bad your budget is.
Lambert had 2.5 years and a poor win rate, especially as one of the biggest clubs in that division.
Cook had 29.5% win rate over 9 months in league one where they would expect to be getting promotion.
Then there's the new guy that's just started.

So 4 since McCarthy and one of those was absolutely horrendous. It's still a lot, but it's not basket case territory. And their budget is a hell of a lot bigger than their attainment, so they've all failed.

Quoted from pontoonlew

Tidying up the mess he made

are you sure you dont have an agenda?

Quoted from pen penfras

Caretaker managers don't count as managers unless you're trying to make a point that's not there.

Hurst won once in 15 games and that's sacking territory regardless of how bad your budget is.
Lambert had 2.5 years and a poor win rate, especially as one of the biggest clubs in that division.
Cook had 29.5% win rate over 9 months in league one where they would expect to be getting promotion.
Then there's the new guy that's just started.

So 4 since McCarthy and one of those was absolutely horrendous. It's still a lot, but it's not basket case territory. And their budget is a hell of a lot bigger than their attainment, so they've all failed.

I never said they did, but they are a club that has had only 19 full time managers in their history and half a dozen of those have been in recent years. That suggests to me a club that is woefully underachieving and blaming it on the managers to appease the fans. You also got the tenure of Cook and the new guy totally wrong. You said they had both had a year in the job when they haven't had a year between them and the new guy has only been there about eight weeks.

Hurst is one of several that have come and gone who haven't had an impact, yet Pontoonlew, who clearly has an agenda against PH, used his sacking there and at Scunny to try and make his case against him. Scunny have followed a similar path with a plethora of managers coming and going in recent seasons and they are still in the mire. I'm not sure those clubs can be used as an example of how PH has failed as a manager since his time at Shrewsbury. He didn't have much chance at either club in my opinion.

Those two clubs apart, he has made every team he has managed better and got four of those to the play offs (ourselves four times) all four of them to play off finals (ourselves twice) and three of them promoted, including us.

I think he has made us much better and will make us better still in time. But that is the problem; some think he should do it overnight.  

Did Hurst and Cook stand a chance at Ipswich? Bit like would Rocky Marciano have beaten Muhammed Ali, great question but we'll never know. It's all about opinion.
Cook is back at Chesterfield this morning replacing the sacked James Rowe, so it'll be interesting to how the old Ipswich rejects get on in the next 12 months
I do think PH is a builder and will get it right given time, trouble is it won't be fast enough for the people who think we're entitled to instant success. Have a sneaky feeling that the game has moved on since Cook was successful at Chesterfield, Portsmouth and Wigan but we'll see. Spireites fans re delighted he's back