Trump   Biden

The idea that Trump wanted to reform a corrupt system to improve it is absolutely laughable. He's slashed regulations and taxes to make it even more of a free for all for the wealthy. It's no coincidence that many of his appointments when in office were right-wing billionaires.

Hiss selling of drilling rights for some of the Alaskan wilderness which was reported the other day is his equivalent of leaving a big turd on the desk in the Oval Office before he goes.

Biden, like Obama before him will be somewhat of a Tony Blair figure. He'll tinker around the edges of the corrupt system (which does exist) to make minor improvements without having the gumption to force through wholesale changes required.

It doesn’t matter who’s in power you say wealthy I say the ruling class, the end result is that they always win this has been highlighted even more so after Trumps 4 years, it would of been more or less the same with someone at the opposite end say Sanders if they’d let him in, he’d of tried to make radical changes but the end result would of been much like Trumps.

I personally haven’t got to much of a problem with the rich getting richer if it means jobs and prosperity for the man/woman in the street. Pre- Trump if trying to set up a new business as a budding entrepreneur you’d be better of just moving to Canada with all the job crushing regulations in play.
By the time Trump had finished slashing and cutting, the USA had an economy that was booming again, with record numbers of jobs!(pre-COVD)

You mention his right wing appointments and? I don’t really see your problem here as we all have our biases, and I don’t imagine Biden and OAC will be to top heavy with right wingers’ do you?

I don’t see Biden in any kind of Tony Blair mould, don’t get me wrong I was glad to see the back of Blair but legacy aside he was after all a decent leader! in fact the only real UK leader along with Thatcher that I’ve witnessed in my lifetime, No Biden’s a puppet a useful puppet for those pulling his strings agree nothing will radically change.... as you where now, normal service will resume with  just another grey man in a suit.

Quoted from Humbercod

I personally haven’t got to much of a problem with the rich getting richer if it means jobs and prosperity for the man/woman in the street. Pre- Trump if trying to set up a new business as a budding entrepreneur you’d be better of just moving to Canada with all the job crushing regulations in play.

Job crushing regulations? In the US? You're having a laugh! You can sack someone over there at the drop of a hat and they are only entitled to about 2 weeks holidays a year. A fraction of the number of public holidays that most civilised countries have as well and the reliance on health insurance means that millions are trapped in their jobs with ever more onerous strains put on them.

If the rich are getting richer, where does the money come from to make them richer? Sectoral balances and money creation is the answer. Despite massive money creation (i.e. government debt) since 2010, the poor are just are poor or even worse off and the wealthy are getting an ever-larger share of the pie. The idea that Trump was ever going to help the average worker on the street is just wishful thinking. When you cut taxes as the Republicans like, the people who benefit most tend to be those already earning more money, i.e. the wealthy. Unless the tax cuts are extremely specifically targetted, which they rarely are.

I don’t think Humbocod knows what he’s arguing for. One minute he’s saying cut regulation then the next they should protect the poor from the rich.

Trump took the weakest economic recovery since the Great Depression and turned it into the strongest labour market in modern times. Once his tax bill went through jobs rocketed, with more vacancies than the number of people unemployed.
In anyone’s book this is how you help the poor!
but hey ho US citizen's can now revert back to normality with democratic benefits, it’s worked for generations keep the poor poor and grateful and the rich richer and even more grateful. Anyone with any ambition or aspiration can puss off to Canada.

I can see them having fun and games over the budgets when Harris starts on a new Healthcare kick.

A lot of those demonstrators are loonies just as a lot of the BLM ones have been. But behind that is a sold lump of voters on each side and as far as Trump is concerned they cannot all be millionaires if he is getting that many voters. It is not just the ultra-rich who benefit, it has been the unemployed too.

The rich/poor argument does not break down neatly into Republican/Democrat either. The richest people like Zuckerberg and Musk are theoretically Democrats and they are going to come calling on Biden for their just desserts in supporting his campaign. Add to that the fact that historically  southern Democrats have been more conservative than northern Republicans and the mix becomes a mess.

Any notion that Trump is some sort of reformist or economic champion must surely be superseded by the fact he has spent the last 4 years firing up a race and culture war in America. He is anti democratic in pushing baseless ideas the election was stolen from him and then incited thousands of extremists inspired by conspiracy theories to invade their democratic capital building because they want to reverse the democratic outcome of an election.

Quoted from Manchester Mariner

Any notion that Trump is some sort of reformist or economic champion must surely be superseded by the fact he has spent the last 4 years firing up a race and culture war in America. He is anti democratic in pushing baseless ideas the election was stolen from him and then incited thousands of extremists inspired by conspiracy theories to invade their democratic capital building because they want to reverse the democratic outcome of an election.

Perhaps you are right. But the fact remains that only his own idiocy and the censorship of Facebook and Twitter prevented his re-election. The "stolen" election was stupid, he stole it himself with his arrogance earlier in the year when the Democrats didn't know whether to sh!t, shave or shower and ended up with a puppet.

In the long run though, the most significant thing about this election will be the debate it has started about the power of Zuckerberg and Dolan to simply stop the expression of a view. It doesn't matter whether the view is good, bad or indifferent, there has to be some debate over this. Likewise CNN saying Fox News should be banned because it did not describe the Capitol riot as an insurrection.

There is a real can of worms here and Biden has just fallen right in it.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

Perhaps you are right. But the fact remains that only his own idiocy and the censorship of Facebook and Twitter prevented his re-election. The "stolen" election was stupid, he stole it himself with his arrogance earlier in the year when the Democrats didn't know whether to sh!t, shave or shower and ended up with a puppet.

In the long run though, the most significant thing about this election will be the debate it has started about the power of Zuckerberg and Dolan to simply stop the expression of a view. It doesn't matter whether the view is good, bad or indifferent, there has to be some debate over this. Likewise CNN saying Fox News should be banned because it did not describe the Capitol riot as an insurrection.

There is a real can of worms here and Biden has just fallen right in it.

Let’s be honest, Trump has not been silenced, he is free to hold a press conference any time of night or day, trying to cause as much mischief and chaos as he can on social media before he goes benefits no one least of all him in the long term. Leaders have responsibilities, Trump already has 5 deaths on his conscience from this week, the system of having an election without immediate exchange of power really is showing its limitations, Trump is not fit for these last dozen or so days, he left his VP to potentially face a a rioting mob, the man needs sectioning

Quoted from Humbercod

Trump took the weakest economic recovery since the Great Depression and turned it into the strongest labour market in modern times. Once his tax bill went through jobs rocketed, with more vacancies than the number of people unemployed.

Funny what can happen when you explode the government debt, isn't it? If you enact enormous tax cuts which can't possibly pay for themselves, there is obviously a lot more money in the system and employment goes up, but government debt then rises massively. It's what Reagan did, it's what GWB did yet still the right-wingers claim they are interested in economic prudence.

However, whenever left-wing parties release their plans for investment in the economy or higher wages for public sector workers, the cry is, "How can we afford it?" Isn't it strange how the main beneficiaries of tax cuts are always the wealthy? How peculiar.

Useful link to read:

https://www.thebalance.com/us-debt-by-president-by-dollar-and-percent-3306296

Of course, expensive though Trump's tax cuts were, it all pales into insignificance with the fallout caused by the ongoing pandemic. That doesn't mean that Trump should be seen as in any way economically competent. Critics of the tax cuts were correct in saying they would never pay for themselves. Claiming you created the best economy just because you whacked big chunks on the national debt doesn't stand up to scrutiny.