Definitely football related

https://www.nme.com/news/music.....tter_impression=true

4700 people allowed in the O2 to watch a concert.

So that's both the O2 and the Royal Albert Hall allowing thousands of people in DECEMBER.

Maybe the Government will allow football crowds back in December, but just haven't announced it yet.

That moron has also told people to go to the cinema today. He is completely clueless

Don’t forget other countries are now allowing fans, albeit strict numbers in to the stadiums.

We’ve known about Johnson’s incompetence since before he was elected, some just seemingly chose to ignore it.

The wider issue is, whilst there’s no fans in the ground, at the top level the games have gone bonkers, and that makes great TV so the media companies couldn’t care less if they ever return...

Well should these events take place the pressure to allow fans back to watch all sports will become immense and it may be Boris’s Christmas gift to allow spectators to return.

Cambridge fans have been told that they will be getting an announcement this weekend to look forward to and they think it is that the pilot scheme of fans coming back into the ground will be restarting.

Fingers crossed.

UTMM

Quoted from Hagrid

That moron has also told people to go to the cinema today. He is completely clueless

Reading this article made me wonder whether this is the thinking behind it.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/08/wear-your-mask-and-stop-talking/615796/

If this is the case it's bad news for football (well unless we all want to sit in a stand not talking) but explains why cinemas are open (well apart from Cineworld). I've no plans to go to the cinema myself, quite apart from the virus there is nothing on.

But if this is the case why aren't we told to be quiet on public transport?

Quoted from horsforthmariner

Reading this article made me wonder whether this is the thinking behind it.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/08/wear-your-mask-and-stop-talking/615796/

If this is the case it's bad news for football (well unless we all want to sit in a stand not talking) but explains why cinemas are open (well apart from Cineworld). I've no plans to go to the cinema myself, quite apart from the virus there is nothing on.

But if this is the case why aren't we told to be quiet on public transport?

The PR implications of telling the population not to talk on public transport would be disastrous - no matter the political make up of a government, it would get slaughtered for that.

This government is in a dreadful position philosophically. The Tory party believes in small government and minimal intervention in people's lives but is in a position where it is having to make 'Big Brother' decisions every day and has had to introduce a number of measures that look positively socialist, as well as lauding the great beacon of socialism; the NHS.

I have no sympathy for them, I deplore Johnson and his incompetent cabal of old school tie 'chums' but I can see their dilemma.

I dislike the Tories deeply but I can also acknowledge the dilemma they're facing.

However, I do believe the whole thing could (and still can) be handled better, so Covid-19 has seriously exposed their flaws. Like any organisation, the experience you get from people on the ground is a reflection of the people (or person) at the top.

This government is riddled with indecision, and it stems from Boris and his cabinet. Fair enough, these are unprecedented times and maybe we should cut them some slack. But no, sorry, too many people are losing their jobs and not seeing loved ones in their hour of need.

There are a lot of nations out there who are handling the virus much better than us. It's hitting everyone hard but quite honestly I don't think this government really knows what it's doing one day to the next. There's no grand plan. It's all been reactive and nothing proactive.

I'm being told by the prime minister to go to the cinema but we can't go and see my frail old gran in her care home. We can go to the pub and drink with mates but I can't invite my parents round to spent time with their grandson (I live in Leeds, so these rules apply).

We can't go to a football ground to support our team but, hey, go and have a meal at a restaurant!

Yes, coronavirus is damaging a lot of economies around the world, and I believe this government is contributing to the damage, not resolving it as best it could.

Quoted from BobbyCummingsTackle

The PR implications of telling the population not to talk on public transport would be disastrous - no matter the political make up of a government, it would get slaughtered for that.

This government is in a dreadful position philosophically. The Tory party believes in small government and minimal intervention in people's lives but is in a position where it is having to make 'Big Brother' decisions every day and has had to introduce a number of measures that look positively socialist, as well as lauding the great beacon of socialism; the NHS.

I have no sympathy for them, I deplore Johnson and his incompetent cabal of old school tie 'chums' but I can see their dilemma.

Im not convinced that any government would get slaughtered - they just need to message it right. Although that is something that Boris and Cummings are incapable of to be honest. The problem is that it would conflict with the the virus won't get you in pubs before 10pm message but at 10.01 your stuffed message they are trying to convey at the moment.

Oh dear, let’s not be bad-mouthing the government please, the Ministry of Propoganda volunteers will be crying on here soon.

Everything is absolutely fine and the tax payer isn’t getting absolutely robbed!
[img]https://i.postimg.cc/MTkvkVf3/651-FA59-D-5066-4-B69-BD83-87-FC1-C93-B992.jpg[/img]

Quoted from horsforthmariner

Im not convinced that any government would get slaughtered - they just need to message it right. Although that is something that Boris and Cummings are incapable of to be honest. The problem is that it would conflict with the the virus won't get you in pubs before 10pm message but at 10.01 your stuffed message they are trying to convey at the moment.

Yep, completely agree. If you followed the advice of this government on a day by day basis you wouldn't know your ar*e from your elbow. As is noted above, you can go to the cinema but not a football match, go to the pub but not mix with more than 6 people at home, eat out to help out yadda yadda yadda

They are discovering that government by empty slogans (Be alert, Kiss a penguin, Eat Pineapple) is not a substitute for a well thought out strategy and clear tactics to implement it.

Kiss a penguin?   I thought most UK zoos were closed?   Does this mean that I have to organise a large party of friends and relatives to tour Europe looking for a zoo that has penguins and is open?

It’s getting to the point where policy has to shift.

The options are returning to draconian lockdown or treating people like adults, giving sensible advice so people can make their own assessments and decisions and get on with life. A vaccine will help but it’s not imminent and mental health issues are beginning to overtake the virus in terms of danger.

There's now a petition to allow fans to return at all levels:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/552036

Already at 40,000.

Maybe Patel could find some remote islands to play sport on.

Seriously, on the point of confused messages from the government..

Yesterday, we had medical emergency on our street. Of course, neighbours immediately got stuck in to help the injured party, without consideration for the own safety. One lady was employed to clear blood from the persons injuries, I quickly supplied her with gloves. Another lady phoned the ambulance service. I went back to get cushions and blankets as the first advice was not to move the person. Tow more neighbours (from different households) cam over with yet more cushions and blankets. We took turns to keep the person awake, and as comfortable as we could. Still on the phone to ambulance, the 2nd neighbour was told someone would call back. After an hour and a half, it turned cooler and started to rain. Still no call back, so the ambulance service was contacted again. After checking the condition of the patient (now in shock and cold), we were finally told to take them to their home. (Only 10 metres away). For various reasons, we helped the person up and supported them till they were in their house. Wounds still bleeding. At this point, 4 people + the patient (4 different households) were in the house. The advice we got was to take the person to hospital. Not Louth (where we are) but Grimsby. No thought of how. The only people with a suitable vehicle were relatives of the patient who live some time away. We couldn't get hold of them for about half an hour. They arrived at the three hour point, just as an ambulance appeared.

At no point were any of us asked about Covid symptoms or if anybody was self isolating. (One person had been).

Eventually they were taken to Grimsby hospital, driving past the gates to Louth hospital, which is now a complete basket case.

THREE HOURS Mr Johnson. A government reliant on ordinary folks to step up to the plate because they have absolutely decimated the NHS. They have put 9 lives at risk.

Not blaming the NHS here - they are our heroes, but this government is useless.

A Tory would no doubt have to Google Community Spirit to see what it means.

Rant over.

The patient is fine now BTW

Quoted from MuddyWaters

It’s getting to the point where policy has to shift.

The options are returning to draconian lockdown or treating people like adults, giving sensible advice so people can make their own assessments and decisions and get on with life. A vaccine will help but it’s not imminent and mental health issues are beginning to overtake the virus in terms of danger.

I agree, but people can't be sensible, which is why cases are increasing so quickly here as opposed to France and Spain who appear to have slowed the trend. If cases lead to high hospitalisation and deaths, then there's going to be another lockdown and the government have to stop the NHS being overwhelmed.

478 people admitted to hospital on Sunday and they say it takes about 2 weeks to get to that point. So for the next few weeks we're looking at 500 increasing to 1000 admissions a day. Won't take long to get to 17000 beds occupied like we had at the peak  

Not taking any political side at all, but do people really believe things would be any less confusing, or we would be getting on top of the virus If Labour, Liberals or even a The Greens were in charge, they are all politicians, very few have ever done anything like work, they are only looking after themselves and preparing themselves for their next highly paid tax payer funded salary with a very generous pension scheme.

Quoted from Gaffer58

Not taking any political side at all, but do people really believe things would be any less confusing, or we would be getting on top of the virus If Labour, Liberals or even a The Greens were in charge, they are all politicians, very few have ever done anything like work, they are only looking after themselves and preparing themselves for their next highly paid tax payer funded salary with a very generous pension scheme.

Things would have been chaotic whoever was in charge. Every country is complaining just like this.

As for them being out for themselves, I think that's a long way from the truth. Everybody wants to do good and improve things for the country and their constituents, it's just incredibly hard to actually make a difference. Plus more than half of the country don't support your party, and not everybody who does agrees with you, so it really is a no win situation.

Quoted from malkamalka

Maybe Patel could find some remote islands to play sport on.

Seriously, on the point of confused messages from the government..

Yesterday, we had medical emergency on our street. Of course, neighbours immediately got stuck in to help the injured party, without consideration for the own safety. One lady was employed to clear blood from the persons injuries, I quickly supplied her with gloves. Another lady phoned the ambulance service. I went back to get cushions and blankets as the first advice was not to move the person. Tow more neighbours (from different households) cam over with yet more cushions and blankets. We took turns to keep the person awake, and as comfortable as we could. Still on the phone to ambulance, the 2nd neighbour was told someone would call back. After an hour and a half, it turned cooler and started to rain. Still no call back, so the ambulance service was contacted again. After checking the condition of the patient (now in shock and cold), we were finally told to take them to their home. (Only 10 metres away). For various reasons, we helped the person up and supported them till they were in their house. Wounds still bleeding. At this point, 4 people + the patient (4 different households) were in the house. The advice we got was to take the person to hospital. Not Louth (where we are) but Grimsby. No thought of how. The only people with a suitable vehicle were relatives of the patient who live some time away. We couldn't get hold of them for about half an hour. They arrived at the three hour point, just as an ambulance appeared.

At no point were any of us asked about Covid symptoms or if anybody was self isolating. (One person had been).

Eventually they were taken to Grimsby hospital, driving past the gates to Louth hospital, which is now a complete basket case.

THREE HOURS Mr Johnson. A government reliant on ordinary folks to step up to the plate because they have absolutely decimated the NHS. They have put 9 lives at risk.

Not blaming the NHS here - they are our heroes, but this government is useless.

A Tory would no doubt have to Google Community Spirit to see what it means.

Rant over.

The patient is fine now BTW

I take exception to you “not blaming the NHS” it’s certainly no hero!
The doctors and Nurses most certainly are.
We had an elderly relative admitted to hospital a few days ago with chest problems, he was released the following morning but get this no COVID test! He was re-admitted yesterday with same symptoms an he’s only just been told that he’s got fluid on the lungs, he’s now had a COVID test and waiting on the result.
As bad as the Government has been with their decision making it’s the control which has rubbed most people up the wrong way, I think it’s given us all a scary insight to socialism and state control, God only knows how bad things would of been with the other lot in charge..

Quoted from Humbercod

I take exception to you “not blaming the NHS” it’s certainly no hero!
The doctors and Nurses most certainly are.
We had an elderly relative admitted to hospital a few days ago with chest problems, he was released the following morning but get this no COVID test! He was re-admitted yesterday with same symptoms an he’s only just been told that he’s got fluid on the lungs, he’s now had a COVID test and waiting on the result.
As bad as the Government has been with their decision making it’s the control which has rubbed most people up the wrong way, I think it’s given us all a scary insight to socialism and state control, God only knows how bad things would of been with the other lot in charge..

You're on about my bloody father?!.exactly what has just happened to him, to the word!!

Quoted from Humbercod

I take exception to you “not blaming the NHS” it’s certainly no hero!
The doctors and Nurses most certainly are.
We had an elderly relative admitted to hospital a few days ago with chest problems, he was released the following morning but get this no COVID test! He was re-admitted yesterday with same symptoms an he’s only just been told that he’s got fluid on the lungs, he’s now had a COVID test and waiting on the result.
As bad as the Government has been with their decision making it’s the control which has rubbed most people up the wrong way, I think it’s given us all a scary insight to socialism and state control, God only knows how bad things would of been with the other lot in charge..

when a person is potentially misdiagnosed, that is a socialism.

Quoted from Humbercod

I take exception to you “not blaming the NHS” it’s certainly no hero!
The doctors and Nurses most certainly are.
We had an elderly relative admitted to hospital a few days ago with chest problems, he was released the following morning but get this no COVID test! He was re-admitted yesterday with same symptoms an he’s only just been told that he’s got fluid on the lungs, he’s now had a COVID test and waiting on the result.
As bad as the Government has been with their decision making it’s the control which has rubbed most people up the wrong way, I think it’s given us all a scary insight to socialism and state control, God only knows how bad things would of been with the other lot in charge..

And all this is why we are in the excrement we are. We have had a Tory govt for 10 years and their neoliberal ideals have raped the NHS and other public services to the point of collapse, yet somehow it would be worse if the “other lot” were in charge. Worse how? It can’t get worse than this thieving bunch of spivs.

Quoted from MarinerDevil

There's now a petition to allow fans to return at all levels:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/552036

Already at 40,000.

Just passed 90000

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

You're on about my bloody father?!.exactly what has just happened to him, to the word!!

Bloody small world on here if so! We’re thinking about him Northbank will PM you.

almost 110,000 now

Quoted from Humbercod

Bloody small world on here if so! We’re thinking about him Northbank will PM you.

Unbelievable, seven degrees of separation!...cheers for the empathy, he's okay at the moment, see how things go..

Quoted from Theimperialcoroner

And all this is why we are in the excrement we are. We have had a Tory govt for 10 years and their neoliberal ideals have raped the NHS and other public services to the point of collapse, yet somehow it would be worse if the “other lot” were in charge. Worse how? It can’t get worse than this thriving bunch of spivs.

It doesn’t matter who runs it to be fair the outcome is always be the same. I’m no supporter of the NHS I’ve lost close family under Labour and Tory run NHS.

Quoted from horsforthmariner

Reading this article made me wonder whether this is the thinking behind it.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/08/wear-your-mask-and-stop-talking/615796/

If this is the case it's bad news for football (well unless we all want to sit in a stand not talking) but explains why cinemas are open (well apart from Cineworld). I've no plans to go to the cinema myself, quite apart from the virus there is nothing on.

But if this is the case why aren't we told to be quiet on public transport?

Couldn’t help but laugh at this:
“ COVID-19 transmission would go down if we spoke less, or less loudly, in public spaces. Why aren’t more people saying so?”
Because you just told them to shut thefuck up!

Quoted from Humbercod

I take exception to you “not blaming the NHS” it’s certainly no hero!
The doctors and Nurses most certainly are.
We had an elderly relative admitted to hospital a few days ago with chest problems, he was released the following morning but get this no COVID test! He was re-admitted yesterday with same symptoms an he’s only just been told that he’s got fluid on the lungs, he’s now had a COVID test and waiting on the result.
As bad as the Government has been with their decision making it’s the control which has rubbed most people up the wrong way, I think it’s given us all a scary insight to socialism and state control, God only knows how bad things would of been with the other lot in charge..

I think you’ll find if you thought about it for a few seconds, that the good things have been the socialist bits*, and the bad things have been the laissez faire bits**.

* you know, like the NHS (free healthcare at the time of need for those in need); the government paying benefits of 80% of pay for those unable to work because of the crisis.

** like infected people in power wandering around the country (Dominic Cumming, and that Scots Nationalist MP - like all nationalists, a selfish lying idiot)

Quoted from KingstonMariner

I think you’ll find if you thought about it for a few seconds, that the good things have been the socialist bits*, and the bad things have been the laissez faire bits**.

* you know, like the NHS (free healthcare at the time of need for those in need); the government paying benefits of 80% of pay for those unable to work because of the crisis.

** like infected people in power wandering around the country (Dominic Cumming, and that Scots Nationalist MP - like all nationalists, a selfish lying idiot)

* I wish it was free!
**Agree!

Quoted from pen penfras

Things would have been chaotic whoever was in charge. Every country is complaining just like this.

As for them being out for themselves, I think that's a long way from the truth. Everybody wants to do good and improve things for the country and their constituents, it's just incredibly hard to actually make a difference. Plus more than half of the country don't support your party, and not everybody who does agrees with you, so it really is a no win situation.

I could not disagree with you more. There are undoubtedly some MPs who are doing it for the good of the wider populace but this government is packed with self interested b*stards who couldn't give a sh*t about anybody else.

I'll give you one example: Rees-Mogg runs an investment fund. He has moved it's nominal headquarters from London to Dublin so that it can benefit from free access to the EU and the tax advantages that being based in Dublin come with. For those slow on the uptake....the arch Brexiteer and the man who effectively brought down May has moved his business to benefit from the EU.

Quoted from Humbercod

I take exception to you “not blaming the NHS” it’s certainly no hero!
The doctors and Nurses most certainly are.
We had an elderly relative admitted to hospital a few days ago with chest problems, he was released the following morning but get this no COVID test! He was re-admitted yesterday with same symptoms an he’s only just been told that he’s got fluid on the lungs, he’s now had a COVID test and waiting on the result.
As bad as the Government has been with their decision making it’s the control which has rubbed most people up the wrong way, I think it’s given us all a scary insight to socialism and state control, God only knows how bad things would of been with the other lot in charge..

This quote is absolutely typical of the new right. A right wing populist government introduces draconian anti-democratic measures and it's an insight into what socialism might be. No it isn't, it's happening right now and is an insight into this government and it's thinking.

A couple of days ago in the House of Commons Matt Hancock was asked a perfectly reasonable question by the MP for Slough and Hancock berated the MP for his "divisive language" and sat down in a hissy fit. He never answered the question.

This is a government that does not like scrutiny, believes it knows best and wishes that everybody would shut up and do what they're told. NOT an insight into socialism.

Quoted from Gaffer58

Not taking any political side at all, but do people really believe things would be any less confusing, or we would be getting on top of the virus If Labour, Liberals or even a The Greens were in charge, they are all politicians, very few have ever done anything like work, they are only looking after themselves and preparing themselves for their next highly paid tax payer funded salary with a very generous pension scheme.

Move away from the partisan question of would Labour/Libs/Dems do better. That is irrelevant. The key question is how could this government have done better? And it's very obvious that it could have done much, much better. Hold this government accountable for it's action/non actions.

Ask why we are in the top 5 globally for deaths per capita. Ask why there has been no strategy (or a woefully inadequate one). Ask why the government bought millions of pounds of PPE that wasn't fit for purpose when it arrived. Ask why Universities were allowed to reopen at a time when it was becoming obvious that young adults were a key source of spreading the virus. Ask why political dogma has more weight than scientific advice. Ask Michael Gove why we shouldn't have listened to experts about Brexit but we should about COVID. Ask why the track and trace app was promised in April but delivered in October and it still doesn't work properly. Ask why the current data being published is so shambolic.

Quoted from BobbyCummingsTackle

Move away from the partisan question of would Labour/Libs/Dems do better. That is irrelevant. The key question is how could this government have done better? And it's very obvious that it could have done much, much better. Hold this government accountable for it's action/non actions.

Ask why we are in the top 5 globally for deaths per capita. Ask why there has been no strategy (or a woefully inadequate one). Ask why the government bought millions of pounds of PPE that wasn't fit for purpose when it arrived. Ask why Universities were allowed to reopen at a time when it was becoming obvious that young adults were a key source of spreading the virus. Ask why political dogma has more weight than scientific advice. Ask Michael Gove why we shouldn't have listened to experts about Brexit but we should about COVID. Ask why the track and trace app was promised in April but delivered in October and it still doesn't work properly. Ask why the current data being published is so shambolic.

The Government followed it's pandemic plan in January to March. The problem was this plan was for Flu not a Coronavirus. The mistake was keeping the SAGE meetings secretive and information on a need to know basis. This is the hallmark of Cummings. Under the last Labour Government the equivalent of SAGE's minutes were published. This allowed peer review and I suspect that would have allowed virologists to point out the fundamental flaw in the Government's original plan.

We then went into a herd immunity strategy which meant that we failed to ramp up testing or purchase the requisite PPE, until we had to about turn in mid March. The Government can again be blamed for dithering for 10 days to impose a lockdown when the scientists were telling them to. They were planning on the hoof and terrified that the NHS would collapse, like it had in Italy, by Mid March and therefore this led to the calamity in the care homes.

The next big stuff up (and the one that is still plaguing us) is with track and trace. There were two potential models. Outsource the project to a company or devolve it local authorities to manage. Unsurprisingly, the Conservatives chose the private sector model by bunging 10 billion to Serco and it has been a disaster. Local Health authorities already had the expertise, the local knowledge and the skills to make this work. In areas that are ignoring the Government and doing there own tracing they are having much more success.  The reason we can't go to Grimsby's games is because they have stuffed this up.

It's clearly a very difficult situation but the two principle reasons for the failure of our response are because of two features of this Tories Government - secrecy and a reliance on big business.

Whichever you vote, the one thing that everyone should acknowledge is that our testing system has been a complete failure. Dido Harding is the epitome of everything wrong with the government - privilege does not mean competence and Hancock's continued failure to do something about the system will ultimately lead to people dying unnecessarily.

One example is travel. Whether you agree with people holidaying or not, I was told by someone high up in the aviation industry that airport testing was ready to roll out in June. It's now October and they are going to announce something today. For four months, they've effectively strangled travel just to justify Priti Patel's quarantine policy. We travelled to a 'dirty' country, quarantined accordingly, not one call to any of the four phone numbers we submitted.

I agree that any political party in government during this pandemic would have struggled.

But it comes down to how willing you are to learn from others. There were many other nations badly affected by this virus before we were - China, Italy, France to name a few.

Relatively speaking, we had a two-week head start to see what these nations were doing well, what they were failing at, and adjust as best we could. So the day when Ireland went into lockdown, what was Boris saying?

"Wash your hands more often!" And that was it.

A week later we're told to work from home, and a week after that we go into lockdown. But the damage had already been done.

I always say, hindsight is the winner in all of this, but this government had a head start compared to those other nations and they dallied. They were pushing the 'herd immunity' concept before they finally decided that lockdown was the answer.

Everything they've done since then — almost everything — has been either late, confused or inadequate.

I don't vote Tory but I'm telling you now, if any other party were in power and making saw an awful hash of this situation then I'd be saying exactly the same things. Because this isn't about political allegiances, it's about people's lives.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Whichever you vote, the one thing that everyone should acknowledge is that our testing system has been a complete failure. Dido Harding is the epitome of everything wrong with the government - privilege does not mean competence and Hancock's continued failure to do something about the system will ultimately lead to people dying unnecessarily.

One example is travel. Whether you agree with people holidaying or not, I was told by someone high up in the aviation industry that airport testing was ready to roll out in June. It's now October and they are going to announce something today. For four months, they've effectively strangled travel just to justify Priti Patel's quarantine policy. We travelled to a 'dirty' country, quarantined accordingly, not one call to any of the four phone numbers we submitted.

I’ve heard airport testing isn’t very reliable. Something like only 7percent accurate. Due to incubation period. So lot of false positives and false negatives.

But I must admit my source is unreliable at best. As I heard Dominic raab say this on tv other week.

Back onto topic. Just let us back in you bunch of felicitations

Quoted from 3610

I’ve heard airport testing isn’t very reliable. Something like only 7percent accurate. Due to incubation period. So lot of false positives and false negatives.

But I must admit my source is unreliable at best. As I heard Dominic raab say this on tv other week.

Back onto topic. Just let us back in you bunch of felicitations

"airport testing" is an interesting one - my partner is a Japanese national and arrived at Heathrow from Japan on September 12th. She was amazed that there was no COVID test (even temperature taken), no questions, nothing. Passport checked and on you go.

If I were really cynical I would say that airport testing isn't reliable because there isn't any! (based on a study of one).

Quoted from RichMariner

I agree that any political party in government during this pandemic would have struggled.

But it comes down to how willing you are to learn from others. There were many other nations badly affected by this virus before we were - China, Italy, France to name a few.

Relatively speaking, we had a two-week head start to see what these nations were doing well, what they were failing at, and adjust as best we could. So the day when Ireland went into lockdown, what was Boris saying?

"Wash your hands more often!" And that was it.

A week later we're told to work from home, and a week after that we go into lockdown. But the damage had already been done.

I always say, hindsight is the winner in all of this, but this government had a head start compared to those other nations and they dallied. They were pushing the 'herd immunity' concept before they finally decided that lockdown was the answer.

Everything they've done since then — almost everything — has been either late, confused or inadequate.

I don't vote Tory but I'm telling you now, if any other party were in power and making saw an awful hash of this situation then I'd be saying exactly the same things. Because this isn't about political allegiances, it's about people's lives.

Be careful with 'any party would have struggled' - it will be the Tory's get out of jail free card when we come round to the next election. They will hope that 4 years worth of events since COVID will have dulled our memories and they can pull that one out of the hat to skip over history. But if the economy is still tanking it will be down to COVID and not this government. They will try to have their cake and eat it.

Quoted from BobbyCummingsTackle

I could not disagree with you more. There are undoubtedly some MPs who are doing it for the good of the wider populace but this government is packed with self interested b*stards who couldn't give a sh*t about anybody else.

I'll give you one example: Rees-Mogg runs an investment fund. He has moved it's nominal headquarters from London to Dublin so that it can benefit from free access to the EU and the tax advantages that being based in Dublin come with. For those slow on the uptake....the arch Brexiteer and the man who effectively brought down May has moved his business to benefit from the EU.

Do we even have such a thing as an honourable MP these day? It seems most of them across all party’s are out for themselves one way or another. You’ve only got to look at the expenses, some MPs are claiming more than their annual salary! And how does the Labour shadow cabinet claim more than 50% of the current government? (And with less numbers) Even Starmer claims more for his personal staff than the PM how can this be? There was a report a few years ago that detailed politicians who hold directorships in firms with annual revenues of £220 billion and only 40% of them are declared!

Quoted from BobbyCummingsTackle

This quote is absolutely typical of the new right. A right wing populist government introduces draconian anti-democratic measures and it's an insight into what socialism might be. No it isn't, it's happening right now and is an insight into this government and it's thinking.

A couple of days ago in the House of Commons Matt Hancock was asked a perfectly reasonable question by the MP for Slough and Hancock berated the MP for his "divisive language" and sat down in a hissy fit. He never answered the question.

This is a government that does not like scrutiny, believes it knows best and wishes that everybody would shut up and do what they're told. NOT an insight into socialism.

I get what you’re saying but It’s cheap to pigeonhole the majority, who voted not necessarily Tory but certainly conservative and a complete rejection of Corbyn’s world view. The annoyance we have is that we’re not getting much Conservative!
Johnson the once bastion of pro-freedom has turned into a wannabe dictator, with some truly draconian measures as you rightly put it. measures I’m sure Corbyn could only dream about.

Quoted from BobbyCummingsTackle

Move away from the partisan question of would Labour/Libs/Dems do better. That is irrelevant. The key question is how could this government have done better? And it's very obvious that it could have done much, much better. Hold this government accountable for it's action/non actions.

Ask why we are in the top 5 globally for deaths per capita. Ask why there has been no strategy (or a woefully inadequate one). Ask why the government bought millions of pounds of PPE that wasn't fit for purpose when it arrived. Ask why Universities were allowed to reopen at a time when it was becoming obvious that young adults were a key source of spreading the virus. Ask why political dogma has more weight than scientific advice. Ask Michael Gove why we shouldn't have listened to experts about Brexit but we should about COVID. Ask why the track and trace app was promised in April but delivered in October and it still doesn't work properly. Ask why the current data being published is so shambolic.

It’s true government could of done better but anybody who seriously thinks we’d be in a better position under a Labour government under Corbyn and Co then I’d say you’ve been reading to many Marx novels. Has the government got things wrong? Absolutely! but then so as every other major economy there is no manuscript for a unprecedented pandemic.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing on the shadow benches but let’s remember that Labour has backed many of the decisions made, and then sniped when it’s gone wrong.