Latest GTFC Financial Results Released...

Town announce profit of £150,573 for the year ending 31st May 2019.

Turnover in 2018/19 increased by 11.8% compared to the previous year, primarily due to an increase in central distributions received from the Football Association and the Football League, player trading and reaching the Third Round of the Emirates FA Cup for the first time in five years. The ability to be able to make a consistent investment into the Youth Academy will assist the club in reaching its long term goals, enabling it to maintain a clear progression pathway. This is evident with a number of graduates earning professional contracts and fighting for first team opportunities in the past year.

It was noted in the previous year’s report that the club were asked to reconsider other potential sites due to there being no political backing for relocation to Peaks Parkway. Due to this further delay, the club has commenced a programme of works to improve the facilities at the stadium. This includes disabled access and facilities, playing facilities, providing heating to the Main Stand, replacement floodlights and refurbishment of the toilet blocks.

Focusing purely on the financial side of things, you have to say that's a pretty good achievement in the current climate.

Aye. And yet people will still claim that the club would fold 'if it wasn't for Fenty sticking his hand in his pocket'!

I wonder if that's before or after any loan repayments, hopefully the debt to Directors continues to shrink.

We're financially stable and operating within our means. That's a good thing.

But the trade-off is that, if we want to progress, we're going to have to spend more. Well, we don't have to — Accrington are proof of that — but given where we've been for the last few years, it's likely that we'll stay right where we are.

I don't want us to spend money we don't have and put our future in jeopardy. But I also understand the frustration from fans that feel we need to spend more to give ourselves a chance of getting into L1, where there are some extra financial rewards.

Quoted from RichMariner

We're financially stable and operating within our means. That's a good thing.

But the trade-off is that, if we want to progress, we're going to have to spend more. Well, we don't have to — Accrington are proof of that — but given where we've been for the last few years, it's likely that we'll stay right where we are.

I don't want us to spend money we don't have and put our future in jeopardy. But I also understand the frustration from fans that feel we need to spend more to give ourselves a chance of getting into L1, where there are some extra financial rewards.

I agree with everything you've put there.  However, my immediate worry is the threat of relegation now, as our form is terrible.  It's like Groundhog Day at this club.

Quoted from RichMariner

We're financially stable and operating within our means. That's a good thing.

But the trade-off is that, if we want to progress, we're going to have to spend more. Well, we don't have to — Accrington are proof of that — but given where we've been for the last few years, it's likely that we'll stay right where we are.

I don't want us to spend money we don't have and put our future in jeopardy. But I also understand the frustration from fans that feel we need to spend more to give ourselves a chance of getting into L1, where there are some extra financial rewards.

Just been for tickets for next week and was served by Steve Wraith who told me that most of the profit was down to the Palace gate receipts which we didn't get (and therefore wasn't spent) till the very end of the transfer window. As the year end is in May, I'm guessing that some of this was passed down to MJ for the summer window.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Just been for tickets for next week and was served by Steve Wraith who told me that most of the profit was down to the Palace gate receipts which we didn't get (and therefore wasn't spent) till the very end of the transfer window. As the year end is in May, I'm guessing that some of this was passed down to MJ for the summer window.

bodes well for the Chelsea cash.

Quoted from RichMariner

We're financially stable and operating within our means. That's a good thing.

But the trade-off is that, if we want to progress, we're going to have to spend more. Well, we don't have to — Accrington are proof of that — but given where we've been for the last few years, it's likely that we'll stay right where we are.

I don't want us to spend money we don't have and put our future in jeopardy. But I also understand the frustration from fans that feel we need to spend more to give ourselves a chance of getting into L1, where there are some extra financial rewards.

That's a bit rich coming from you!

Just kidding.... you've hit the nail on the head.

The Catch 22 of do you accept where we are and hope for some more footballing fortune or do we speculate to accumulate... but at the same time expose ourselves to the risks of making "investments" that don't come to fruition

My view is that we carry on building little by little.... sustainably, strategically rather than going gung ho.

If we can keep on turning out young players who either move on for money or become 1st team regulars, I'd say that sooner rather than later we might get to see some better chances of success than might seem to be on the horizon just now on the back of a few poor results

Keep the faith!  UTM GTID  ATAW

It’s got to be said - well done to everyone at the club 👍

You only have to see what’s going on at other clubs around the country and the mess they’ve got themselves in that I’m fairly happy to live within our means . Ok we’re only bobbing along but supporting a club means that . Realistic expectations should be kept. Things do seem to be going the right way - if a bit slower than most would like - but nonetheless we’ve got a club to support every weekend.

And a club that can show a profit is always going to be more attractive to a buyer !

At £10 a ticket at the Chelsea game don't think we are going to make much profit from that game.

Good overall result, at least on the face of it.

I agree with Rich and FooW. Need to keep our heads.

Quoted from mimma

At £10 a ticket at the Chelsea game don't think we are going to make much profit from that game.

Think it will still come to a decent amount.I think someone mentioned c £75,000. Also worth noting that our average attendance is 6-7% up on last season which will also boost the coffers a bit

Quoted from HertsGTFC

You have to dig into the detail to see if that’s an operating or net profit, the latter is after directors remuneration and transfer across to the balance sheet.

Loan repayments don’t come out of the trading accounts. It’s a decent result but the cash position and liabilities on the balance sheet are the numbers to scrutinise and truly measure success

I'm no expert but what "director remuneration " are you referring to? If you mean a dividend then GTFC have never paid any dividend ever to any director.

Don't forget that our directors pay 30 grand a year to sit on the board.

Quoted from mimma

I'm no expert but what "director remuneration " are you referring to? If you mean a dividend then GTFC have never paid any dividend ever to any director.

Don't forget that our directors pay 30 grand a year to sit on the board.

I’m not being specific to Town just basic accounting but generally Director Remuneration is dividend, pension, healthcare, P11D.

Thanks for clearing that up Herts.

Don't think any of that applies to Town directors.

Quoted from mimma

I'm no expert but what "director remuneration " are you referring to? If you mean a dividend then GTFC have never paid any dividend ever to any director.

Don't forget that our directors pay 30 grand a year to sit on the board.

Which ones pay £30k a year?

Quoted from mimma

Thanks for clearing that up Herts.

Don't think any of that applies to Town directors.

You would hope not wouldn’t you

Wasn't there something on here a few weeks ago about the trust having to fork out this to remain on the board?

A positive, certainly, but I suppose some of it will be down to the money we got for Burrell. If, instead, he'd stayed and perhaps knocked in a few goals this season, it might well have been worth more to us in the longer term. That's the issue with the EPPP and the risk of investing in the academy players.

Quoted from mimma

At £10 a ticket at the Chelsea game don't think we are going to make much profit from that game.

That was the line from JF too before we played the game

I still don't see that we shouldn't have made a fair few quid from the tie, given it was a 40000 attendance

I know that there was supposed to be a 45% split of the revenue coming our way after expenses.....maybe JF was thinking though of the expenses that politicians manage to sort themselves which would have emptied the kitty  

This comes up every time the finances are mentioned, d any if the current directors pay £30k each year for the privilege, would this show up in an individual line of just be lumped in with revenue. Also if they do pay, is it classed as a loan or just a payment?

Quoted from Maringer

A positive, certainly, but I suppose some of it will be down to the money we got for Burrell. If, instead, he'd stayed and perhaps knocked in a few goals this season, it might well have been worth more to us in the longer term. That's the issue with the EPPP and the risk of investing in the academy players.

Think Burrell was sold after the year end.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Think Burrell was sold after the year end.

And I'm sure it was only about £10,000 ,according to someone on here

No directors pay £30,000 a year for the privilege.

It was the amount the Trust were paying the club per year, largely from bar takings.

Fenty mentioned earlier in the year at a Trust night that the Palace game earned the club £150k. If our budget is similar this season, we have Burrell and Chelsea so far.

Just had a quick look at the accounts. Turnover was up c £400k (£300k of which was due to higher media income). Most of the extra revenue was taken up by increased expenditure.

The profit was due to the change in player trading. Last year it was a £30k loss, this year a £176k profit, so a £210k turn around.

The work to the ground took place after the financial year close so that expenditure should be in the 2020 accounts.

In the notes to the Balance Sheet, Directors’ Loans reduced from £1,800,000 to £1,550,000. So a further £250,000 paid off. Six more years and we’re free!

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Just had a quick look at the accounts. Turnover was up c £400k (£300k of which was due to higher media income). Most of the extra revenue was taken up by increased expenditure.

The profit was due to the change in player trading. Last year it was a £30k loss, this year a £176k profit, so a £210k turn around.

The work to the ground took place after the financial year close so that expenditure should be in the 2020 accounts.

In the notes to the Balance Sheet, Directors’ Loans reduced from £1,800,000 to £1,550,000. So a further £250,000 paid off. Six more years and we’re free!

I'm still slightly bemused as to why this might be a good thing bearing in mind the losses & loans racked up due to the mismanagement of the club.

Quoted from mimma

I'm no expert but what "director remuneration " are you referring to? If you mean a dividend then GTFC have never paid any dividend ever to any director.

Don't forget that our directors pay 30 grand a year to sit on the board.

Do you have proof of this or are you just relying on heresay?

As for director remunerations, this could be anything that is paid to a director such as salary, pension contributions, company car or contributions towards a private car such as private fuel or any other economic benefits.

Here we go again !

Quoted from MuddyWaters

I'm still slightly bemused as to why this might be a good thing bearing in mind the losses & loans racked up due to the mismanagement of the club.

What we’d like to happen and what happens in reality can be different things. Given Fenty is not going to write off the debt, and if you think his control has been bad for the club, then every pound paid back is a step in the right direction.

Quoted from golfer

Here we go again !

Sorry golfer. We’re not all forelock tuggers.

Quoted from golfer

Here we go again !

Thanks for the recommendation Golfer.... nice one!  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RclqsuLXlo

Quoted from KingstonMariner

What we’d like to happen and what happens in reality can be different things. Given Fenty is not going to write off the debt, and if you think his control has been bad for the club, then every pound paid back is a step in the right direction.

Given that we're unlikely to make similar profits every year, that means at least six more years! And furthermore, are we taking £150k plus out of the playing budget year on year to facilitate the pay-back?

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Sorry golfer. We’re not all forelock tuggers.

I am definitely not a yes man and don't follow the crowd. As far as I am concerned every man is equal no matter how much money they have got-it's just that some are more equal than others.  P.S. -it's years since I tugged anything.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Sorry golfer. We’re not all forelock tuggers.

Forewhat tuggers?

Love him or hate him Fenty has every right to take back part of his loans when we are in profit (Or even if we are not). Its not our money, nor does it belong to the playing budget (Even if another £200k would probably help).The sooner he can get all his money back the better bet we are for someone to take over and move us forward.

In the meantime we're stuck in limbo limping along with a cack-a$$ budget while he pays himself back. It is what it is I guess, so long as he stops once he got his fair dues and doesn't keep bleeding us dry. Then finally we can maybe look to a brighter football.

Until then plenty of moaning and groaning at the fayre on offer I'm afraid.

Profit, loss, loans paid, loans unpaid.. what does it matter in the grand scheme of things unless there's significant change?

Managed to return to BP after more than ten years away recently and was pretty shocked when looking around. Expected it to look a little more spruced up after the claims from the club and expected a little more in the way of better facilities and club/customer interaction. Amazing what a false image a few photos online can project. It's even scruffier and much more soulless than I remembered.

I'm sorry to say.. all I saw was a decaying club/ground with a sparseish home support made up of a majority of middle-aged to old-aged men going to a game out of duty or hanging on to the dying embers of a love affair. No buzz, no excitement, no sparkle and the football wasn't any better.

Maybe it's only clearly apparent when visiting once in a blue moon. Fairly upsetting to witness first hand evidence of what I've perceived for a long time to be a slow and painful demise without significant investment arriving from somewhere.

There's competence in balancing the books but there's no glory or credit to be given in it. Far from it. Any accountant can do that. A football club's performance is not solely measured on a balance sheet or a profit and loss account. Just look at our facilities, look at our team over the past few years. We look and sound like a football club lying there on a life support machine compared to most of the 91. Nothing more , nothing less. Anyone who can say anything else is fairly deluded or blindly loyal imho..

I wish things were different.. but they just aren't..

Its true to say even when the loans are gone there is the small matter of buying out the shares, sorry but this tumour is deeply embedded and no operation can remove it.

False promises every season about better budgets/grounds/players is just a ploy to get some money back in the coffers and get some pennies back in the pocket.
What probably started off as a conservative PR stunt to get his face in the media has become a Stalinist grip on power in which he enjoys seeing the people suffer whilst he sits upon his throne taking the money from their wallets to pay for his toy.
Not been this season as im fed up of it, its not Jolley, think Jolley doing a decent job given the tools.
Dont think i will go again while the current board sit as the vision and action shown by them is urine poor.

Sorry but im a very depressed Mariner. A man can only take so much and i have broken.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Given that we're unlikely to make similar profits every year, that means at least six more years! And furthermore, are we taking £150k plus out of the playing budget year on year to facilitate the pay-back?

I agree. The original comment was slightly tongue in cheek and optimistic. But what are you going to do to change things?

At the moment paying back the loans is the only show in town. Whilst the debt is there it makes it that much harder for any other potential owners to take over.

There is plenty wrong with B.P.and the set up but if you don't want to go then don't go. Obviously there is not enough money for all the things we all want but I go to watch Town because I enjoy going. Who can do the job better in the present climate. Whatever "supporters" views are on the rights and wrongs of the board they must be given some praise for our existence. We could so easily have been playing on Hardy's Rec. There is a get together in B.P. at 3-0clock on Saturday for the Newport game-Please attend.

Like others have said before, under Fenty's time things have not been what people expect.
However during our long footballing history we have always had good and bad times on and off the pitch (relegations, promotions, re-elections, non-league & financial problems).
We all want a stadium with 21st century facilities, I would rather have BP than Glanford Park, then look at Darlington, got a brilliant ground, but it cost them their league status.  Coventry FC did have a ground, now look where they play their home games.
The only have to look at the teams that disappeared from the Football league over the past 20 years (York, Wrexham, Halifax, Darlington, Hartlepool, Stockport, Chesterfield, Notts County, Torquay, Chester, Hereford) replaced with likes of (Crawley, Fleetwood, Cheltenham, Morecambe, Stevenage, MK Dons, Macclesfield, Wycombe, Accrington, Burton).
Lots of things had changed during those times, there is no longer any money in the town, its no longer a working man's game, EU destroyed the biggest industry in the town, follwed by most of the south bank factories closing or moving location, younger generation having to move away to find work.
Then we have the most backward council in the country, no investment in the town, when we needed it most, when the fishing industry was killed off.  Our council has being playing out a Brexit style play over the last 30 odd years, Labour, Conversatives and Lib Dem councillors, blocking based on party politics, rather than doing was is best for the town.
We have heard about a regeneration of the town, 20+ years to late, the likes of Liverpool, Bristol, Portsmouth & London etc have already regenerated their docklands, we dip into the pot, when they is naff all left.
This town is a poor mans Bournemouth on the east cost, nothing to do for families anymore.
Years ago we would be sat in a pub, talking about all this, rather, than typing on a device, how times have changed.

I know that come Saturday, I will be at BP watching the mariners, at our ground, in the football league, a club run within it's means.  I wonder what the Bury fans, will be doing.

Well said Yard Dog! You've hit the nail sqaurly on the head. I agree with every silible you have written.

Unfortunately I can't see it changing soon. The only catalyst to change is if we become successful on the pitch, but I'm not holding my breath on that happening any time soon.

Although I don't disagree that the council will always tend to argue and bicker on a party political basis, there simply wasn't any money available to regenerate the town until recently. Central government didn't provide any money and the local authorities weren't allowed to borrow any money to invest so what could really be done?

Not right to blame them for not investing/redeveloping when they just couldn't afford to do so!

Quoted from Bigdog

Profit, loss, loans paid, loans unpaid.. what does it matter in the grand scheme of things unless there's significant change?

Managed to return to BP after more than ten years away recently and was pretty shocked when looking around. Expected it to look a little more spruced up after the claims from the club and expected a little more in the way of better facilities and club/customer interaction. Amazing what a false image a few photos online can project. It's even scruffier and much more soulless than I remembered.

I'm sorry to say.. all I saw was a decaying club/ground with a sparseish home support made up of a majority of middle-aged to old-aged men going to a game out of duty or hanging on to the dying embers of a love affair. No buzz, no excitement, no sparkle and the football wasn't any better.

Maybe it's only clearly apparent when visiting once in a blue moon. Fairly upsetting to witness first hand evidence of what I've perceived for a long time to be a slow and painful demise without significant investment arriving from somewhere.

There's competence in balancing the books but there's no glory or credit to be given in it. Far from it. Any accountant can do that. A football club's performance is not solely measured on a balance sheet or a profit and loss account. Just look at our facilities, look at our team over the past few years. We look and sound like a football club lying there on a life support machine compared to most of the 91. Nothing more , nothing less. Anyone who can say anything else is fairly deluded or blindly loyal imho..

I wish things were different.. but they just aren't..

While I would agree with most of what you say ,the bit about accountants doesn't really ring true .This can be demonstrated when you consider how many football clubs have either gone down the pan or have been in serious financial difficulties under the watchful eyes of "competent accountants ".

So if over the next few years Mr Fenty eventually gets all his loan back, and he probably takes some money each year for expenses when on official town duty, will it mean that he has had complete control for no expense at all. I assume that his loan is interest free so if he had put that money into a building society he would have had a bit of interest. If the above is correct, and I know there will be someone on here to put things right if incorrect, it doesn't seem to have been too bad a thing for him, and I understand there was always the possibility of him losing it all if the club had gone mamaries up, unless he was in a position where he would have been a privileged creditor.

It's the amount of shares you hold that dictate the control of the club. If you have more than 50% of the total no. of shares then you have overall control of the club.  If you have less then you can be out voted by the rest of the shareholders.

Quoted from mimma

It's the amount of shares you hold that dictate the control of the club. If you have more than 50% of the total no. of shares then you have overall control of the club.  If you have less then you can be out voted by the rest of the shareholders.

Not quite correct. JSF owns less than half of the shares, yet he controls the club because of the money the clubs owes him and because he has guaranteed to cover any overdraft up to a certain limit. There is a statment in the accounts to this effect.

Very often the real people who control companies are the banks

Quoted from mimma

It's the amount of shares you hold that dictate the control of the club. If you have more than 50% of the total no. of shares then you have overall control of the club.  If you have less then you can be out voted by the rest of the shareholders.

Are there not some stock market rules that say something along the linesthat, if you hold a certain amount of a company's shares, 30% comes to mind, you have to make an offer for the remaining shares.

Quoted from Gaffer58

Are there not some stock market rules that say something along the linesthat, if you hold a certain amount of a company's shares, 30% comes to mind, you have to make an offer for the remaining shares.

I believe it is 51%.
.


.

Quoted from Gaffer58

So if over the next few years Mr Fenty eventually gets all his loan back, and he probably takes some money each year for expenses when on official town duty, will it mean that he has had complete control for no expense at all. I assume that his loan is interest free so if he had put that money into a building society he would have had a bit of interest. If the above is correct, and I know there will be someone on here to put things right if incorrect, it doesn't seem to have been too bad a thing for him, and I understand there was always the possibility of him losing it all if the club had gone mamaries up, unless he was in a position where he would have been a privileged creditor.

He is a privileged creditor. See the following quote from the company (i.e. the club) accounts.

"Mr  J  S  Fenty  has  provided  financial  guarantees  amounting  to  £325,000.  These  guarantees,  together  with  his  loans,  are secured by way of a debenture, dated 6th July 2007,creating a fixed and floating charge over all of the company's assets."

Quoted from The Yard Dog

I know that come Saturday, I will be at BP watching the mariners, at our ground, in the football league, a club run within it's means.  I wonder what the Bury fans, will be doing.

FA Cup

Quoted from The Yard Dog

I know that come Saturday, I will be at BP watching the mariners, at our ground, in the football league, a club run within it's means.  I wonder what the Bury fans, will be doing.

Quoted from bedders78

FA Cup

Well spotted Bedders.... a bit of a facup as they say darn sarf  

Keiran Maguire has done his usual deep dive on our accounts:

https://twitter.com/kieranmaguire?lang=en

TLR

Praises us for showing that lower league clubs can be transparent, break even and get accounts out quickly.

Income up 12% mainly due to broadcast revenue

Profit made through player sales and loan income

Wage bill up 5%

£46,000 spent on transfers

Fenty recouped £250k but still £1.55M outstanding

Committed to spend £107k on new ground plans (don't get much for that!)

Mr Maguire states that GTFC is "technically insolvent"...so can we really be a 'well-run club'?  

Quoted from 137

Mr Maguire states that GTFC is "technically insolvent"...so can we really be a 'well-run club'?  

Furthermore he states

Grimsby total losses over the years just under £3m. Club technically insolvent but not an issue whilst directors continue to back it.

How did we manage to lose that amount of money??  Got to say I am a bit shocked about that.....

Quoted from psgmariner

Praises us for showing that lower league clubs can be transparent, break even and get accounts out quickly.

Surely this is because we have to, since we are a plc. Seems odd to praise for something the club is obliged to do.

Not obliged to be a PLC though.

So would player sales be the Dembele money?

Quoted from psgmariner

Keiran Maguire has done his usual deep dive on our accounts:

https://twitter.com/kieranmaguire?lang=en

TLR

Praises us for showing that lower league clubs can be transparent, break even and get accounts out quickly.

Income up 12% mainly due to broadcast revenue

Profit made through player sales and loan income

Wage bill up 5%

£46,000 spent on transfers

Fenty recouped £250k but still £1.55M outstanding

Committed to spend £107k on new ground plans (don't get much for that!)

I believe part of the reduction in the loan account was to pay back the Mullens' loan.

Quoted from Cambs Mariner

I believe it is 51%.
.


.

51% gives them overall control, what I believe he is referring to was when someone buys shares there are triggers in place where they have to offer all existing shareholders the option to sell at the offered price,
MP was caught out by this and ended up gifting shares to get around it,  I think we have 3 trigger points in our buy out agreement the first is around 33%

Quoted from FishOutOfWater

Furthermore he states

Grimsby total losses over the years just under £3m. Club technically insolvent but not an issue whilst directors continue to back it.

How did we manage to lose that amount of money??  Got to say I am a bit shocked about that.....

I think this is meant to reflect the amount the club have in assets against the on the book dept ie directors loans and other creditors which is total 3m
Like it says this last financial period we made a small profit  so the club is still solvent, if the Creditors where to call all the dept in though then that would be another story.

On the surface, those figures look really good.

It would be interesting to see where we compared to clubs in and around is compare in terms of turnover and where our revenue is coming from.

Quoted from SomeSanity

On the surface, those figures look really good.

It would be interesting to see where we compared to clubs in and around is compare in terms of turnover and where our revenue is coming from.

Please explain to me how 'technically insolvent' equates to 'really good'.

Quoted from 137

Please explain to me how 'technically insolvent' equates to 'really good'.

This is Town we're talking about so any situation that "could have been worse" is also "really good".

Quoted from SomeSanity

On the surface, those figures look really good.

It would be interesting to see where we compared to clubs in and around is compare in terms of turnover and where our revenue is coming from.

I fail to see how accumulated losses of that magnitude are 'really good' especially in light of the lack of any saleable assets.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

I'm still slightly bemused as to why this might be a good thing bearing in mind the losses & loans racked up due to the mismanagement of the club.

Exactly. The debt was racked up by Fenty’s mismanagement. Paying off terrible management appointments and useless players.

By the end of this season Fenty would have taken around £850k from the club that could have been better spent on improving the facilities and infrastructure at the club. For example it would cost a fraction of that to implement a new ticketing system where you can pick your seat, print tickets at home and have scanners on each turnstile.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Exactly. The debt was racked up by Fenty’s mismanagement. Paying off terrible management appointments and useless players.

By the end of this season Fenty would have taken around £850k from the club that could have been better spent on improving the facilities and infrastructure at the club. For example it would cost a fraction of that to implement a new ticketing system where you can pick your seat, print tickets at home and have scanners on each turnstile.

... and he could also not have lent the club any money and see it go under. There are always more than one way to interpret the situation.