Hurst talking formations - MP freeview

Welcoming and refreshing to hear Hurst offer an honest in-depth analysis of the game.  

Ok they may not always be getting every decision right but the more I hear from them, the more confident I feel and genuinely think his 2 interviews were near spot on.

Hurst said post match on MP freeview :

http://www.grimsby-townfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10417~2461864,00.html

"And the 3rd is obviously a good passing move from their point of view. And perhaps it was because they got 3 in there in midfield. And that's something myself and Rob will have to look at ourselves and question whether we should have matched them up. But that said, the 1st half performance showed that we were capable of causing problems playing at home 4-4-2. You know we want a good positive [inaudible] to games and we're always looking to win them. Think if we'd have started 4-3-3 at home, it would have been seen as a bit of a negative move."

Very interesting comments !

I appreciate his thinking - 3 in the middle gives you more solidity and we knew Wrexham were a good passing side who went 4-3-3.
But is it negative to go 4-3-3 ?! I'd have said maybe the opposite !

Pros and cons

4-4-2
Pro: Gives midfielders width to exploit space out wide and put in crosses.
Con: Give the opposition more space in the middle and asks for more defensive running from central midfield pairings.

4-3-3
Pro: More bodies and defensively tighter in the centre.
Con: Potentially have to do most of your attacking through the centre.

My personal view is the threat we caused them generally WASN'T from any midfield width we provided.
If you look at the goal and chances Hearn and Disley had - they came from some good passes ?
Also genuinely believe IF you can get Hearn on the ball (and not let him be isolated out wide), he can also be a provider from widish areas - that much was proved on Tuesday with Eldings goal and today with the disallowed goal.

Think 2nd half we saw the "real" Wrexham team turn up.
I've watched their 3rd goal a few times and can understand Hurst's other view we should have anticipated a little better with so many bodies back.
But I honestly cannot apportion too much blame except maybe we dropped a little too deep ?
Also wonder if Church worked SO hard, that it may have reduced his influence 2nd half.

Anyway, was anyone else slightly shocked to hear Hurst say playing 4-3-3 "would have been seen as a bit of a negative move" when you're playing with an extra attacker ?!  

Is he thinking matching the opposition gives the impression you're more worried about the opposition(which tbf is what Woodsy used to do TOO much !) rather than causing THEM problems ?
    
Or could it be, Hurst himself sees 4-3-3 as a "kill the middle" defensive tactic ? If he does, is he right ?

Personally I wouldn't worry.
Especially when we adopt a tactic of hitting it long(ish) and trying to play our football in the final 3rd ?!
Who knows, if we want to be more patient it may also allow us to pass and retain possession better in the centre ?

Finally....
- Should he worry about what the fans think ?
- How do you think we should progress ?

As I've said before, think we should consider ditching 4-4-2 (certainly against the better passing teams) because
a) I don't think our wide midfielders are showing enough end-product out wide.
b) Feel we've suffered similar problems leaving space in the middle before e.g. Fleetwood.

Only problem is, it might need some work and leave Makofo, Coulson, Eagle battling with a place up front with all our other strikers.
But are we worried about that or might it help ? Feel there's a case they're ALL better playing in a more advanced role or maybe even in central midfield.

Anyway, well done for your honesty Paul, and thanks for the effort of the lads today.
UTM !

PS Sorry for the long post but feel this 4-3-3/4-4-2 question is quite important and perhaps the managers feel it's an issue to some extent too.

that is a brilliant post

I think most people get too wound up about formations.Good teams are fluid and know where to be and when.

Of course you can plan to exploit certain weaknesses in a team but i feel most of our problems at the moment are down to poor decision making and indecisiveness.We simply don't make enough of our opportunities and allow other teams to make the most of theirs.

Don't know if this is down to a lack of confidence,or the players simply aren't as good as the top teams in this league.We've lost to the top 4 sides in the league now and only managed one goal against them,whilst conceding eleven.You can say that stats lie,but that looks fairly conclusive to me.

I can't see us beating Kiddy either.They are 7th and we have one away goal all season.

Although i think performances are fairly good this season,we just don't have that killer instinct and i still feel we need 3 or 4 better players to compete at the top.They won't be acquired this season as the budget is shot,so i'm already looking to next season,when a few contracts are up.Think the managers will be too.

Quoted from ginnywings

I think most people get too wound up about formations.Good teams are fluid and know where to be and when.

Of course you can plan to exploit certain weaknesses in a team but i feel most of our problems at the moment are down to poor decision making and indecisiveness.We simply don't make enough of our opportunities and allow other teams to make the most of theirs.

Don't know if this is down to a lack of confidence,or the players simply aren't as good as the top teams in this league.We've lost to the top 4 sides in the league now and only managed one goal against them,whilst conceding eleven.You can say that stats lie,but that looks fairly conclusive to me.

I can't see us beating Kiddy either.They are 7th and we have one away goal all season.

Although i think performances are fairly good this season,we just don't have that killer instinct and i still feel we need 3 or 4 better players to compete at the top.They won't be acquired this season as the budget is shot,so i'm already looking to next season,when a few contracts are up.Think the managers will be too.

So you're pointing to positioning, fluidity, decision making, the league table, confidence, how good the players might be, killer instinct, how many goals we've conceded and lack of budget.

Yet you say "most people get too wound up about formations" ?!!  

What you're really suggesting is to ignor what Hurst said and instead, go with your lack of conclusions and solutions and just write the season off !  

My guess is you belittle talk about formations because you don't understand the issues, can't be bothered to think or learn about them and want everyone else to be the same as you.

a good post 80s and Its one to think about with makofo beating players for fun then forgetting what to do with the ball. I would say if your team is struggling go back to basics with the good old 442. saying that we have the right players for a 433 in the team and i would like to see coulson pushed forward a little more.

UTM

Cheers Andy,
I think we might see 4-3-3 on Tuesday - if only because Hurst might see it as more defensive (not that I think we shouldn't attack for 3 points).
We'll see....

Oh, one other option with Bradley Wood out might be 3 at the back ?
Very much doubt it but it would be interesting to play a 3-4-3 or 3-5-2.