American debt debacle.

The last few weeks have been an eye opener into the way America engages with it's politicians - of whom at least 50% can safely be branded as completely barking - and it's horrific debt problem.

Majority of the debt was made under George W. Bush's presidency, and I can't help thinking now that those who are the most vociferous about reducing the debt now (the Tea Party) were wholesome advocates of what he was doing and funding in the first instance - the "war on terror" etc. What is it with a country that is so totally repulsed by any form of taxation, whether it's on fuel, or health or whatever, the Yanks just won't have it. With the likes of Fox News beating out an ultra right wing agenda every day that the majority of the population seem to accept as gospel in this respect it paints a frightening picture of where the country seems to be heading.

I think part of it comes down to the fact that they're still relatively a very new country. They preach this 'American dream' balderdash of everybody is born with the same chances in life so you don't make it then it's your own fault.

Pretty scary that loons like Palin and Bachmann still hold sway with a big chunk of the population. Either of them becomes President and we're all copulated.

They are one of the poorest countries in the world and have been for some time.
That's in terms of their debt of course. If all the countries they owed money to demanded it back in one go they'd be third world.
However I couldnt' give a feck to be frank. They are not a positive force in the world.

Quoted from upthestripes

They are one of the poorest countries in the world and have been for some time.
That's in terms of their debt of course. If all the countries they owed money to demanded it back in one go they'd be third world.
However I couldnt' give a feck to be frank. They are not a positive force in the world.

John Wayne was when he was taking on them pesky injuns...

Quoted from jock dock tower

John Wayne was when he was taking on them pesky injuns...

Haha, and the spirit of John lives on!

Quoted from upthestripes

They are one of the poorest countries in the world and have been for some time.
That's in terms of their debt of course. If all the countries they owed money to demanded it back in one go they'd be third world.
However I couldnt' give a feck to be frank. They are not a positive force in the world.

The main threat to world peace is not Russia or China , its the USA !!!!!

If they started minding their own bussiness and stopped interferring in other countries , we would be better off,

If there were a problem in the world, the UN are suppose to sort it out , not the USA,

The USA run the UN and NATO, thats the other problem,

Having said that, I like the USA and the Amercan people,

Its just the politicians.

Quoted from grimsby pete

The main threat to world peace is not Russia or China , its the USA !!!!!

If they started minding their own bussiness and stopped interferring in other countries , we would be better off,

If there were a problem in the world, the UN are suppose to sort it out , not the USA,

The USA run the UN and NATO, thats the other problem,

Having said that, I like the USA and the Amercan people,

Its just the politicians.

Yeah I agree Pete, it's the folk in power, as always. The people just get on with their lives like the rest of us.

Corporations run the world, money is made from nothing and the American people are not to blame for the culture they have been brained washed into becoming.

....mainly by Fox News, owner, Rupert Murdoch.

Quoted from jock dock tower

....mainly by Fox News, owner, Rupert Murdoch.

(tee hee That naughty Rupert get's his fingers in everything lol)

Only thing is this debt thing of theirs will blow up again in a few months because they didn't settle it properly the dumb a sses

Good diagram here of where all the money goes...

[url]http://s3.amazonaws.com/infobeautiful2/billion_dollar_gram_2009.png[/url]

Quoted from jock dock tower

....mainly by Fox News, owner, Rupert Murdoch.

I guess your viewpoint is coloured by your politics; if you are left-of-centre Fox News is ultra-conservative. If you are right-of-centre then BBC News is pro-Labour.

The truth as always is somewhere in the middle.

Quoted from kingofthekippers

I guess your viewpoint is coloured by your politics; if you are left-of-centre Fox News is ultra-conservative. If you are right-of-centre then BBC News is pro-Labour.

The truth as always is somewhere in the middle.

....not with Rupert it ain't, even your good self must acknowledge that?

Interesting debate now going on in American politics where there's an attempt at setting up some kind of mass partiicpatory political movement to try and reclaim the "sensible" middle ground. The Tea Party are widely viewed with disdain, even among hard line Republicans - basically because they're stupid, ignorant, and downright dangerous and the majority of Americans simply don't want them. They don't have the money, wherwithal, or resources though to fend off a very rich and vocal organisation that is very clever at getting what it wants (very ably supported by Murdoch and Fox News)
What the new group is trying to do is to get two well known moderates from the Republicans and the Democrats to stand on a "3rd way" ticket for moderation. Will be very interesting to see whether it can succeed, because if it does show signs of doing so then I'm sure the likes of news Corporation will throw billions of dollars at trying to stop it. Interesting times.......

Quoted from jock dock tower

The Tea Party are widely viewed with disdain, even among hard line Republicans - basically because they're stupid, ignorant, and downright dangerous and the majority of Americans simply don't want them. They don't have the money, wherwithal, or resources though to fend off a very rich and vocal organisation that is very clever at getting what it wants (very ably supported by Murdoch and Fox News)

Obviously they will be demonised like crazy by the manintream media and likes of Murdoch - all mainsteam is left AND right, it's one big illussion like you've actually got a real choice.

Most tea partiers just want their country back and to live within their means, uphold the constitution and have smaller, less criminal govt, less out of control with their war agendas.
I think you're the one who's maybe being a little ignorant here, don't simply believe everything must be true just because one side tells a pack of lies and says so.

The bottom line is, the whole debt principle flies against what common sense economics says - that if you're in debt, you can't keep increasing your debt level forever.
You can't stop the bubble bursting if you keep inflating it, it's just a case of how big it gets before it does.

To criticize people who want to burst the bubble before things gets worse later is somewhat missing the point.

Quoted from Marinerz93

money is made from nothing

Yep most is created as debt.

....and is exploding across the world's stock markets this morning. Had to laugh when watching the BBC News this morning when it talked of "markets across the world are in freeefall" as if they are some kind of living organism, instead of the reality of financial speculators causing the run.

Quoted from jock dock tower

....not with Rupert it ain't, even your good self must acknowledge that?

I've never seen how people think Rupert Murdoch holds so much sway in this country. The idea that his newspapers hold so much influence is laughable; the Sun has a readership of 7.5m and the Times is read by 1.5m people which means there are 40m people over the age of 15 who DON'T read a Murdoch paper. 15m people read papers that don't come under the 'influence' of Rupert Murdoch.

Sky News is effectively a minority channel and its ability to influence events is minimal. Now compare that to the BBC. I bet Rupert would love to have two national free-to-air networks, five free-to-air national radio stations, 40 local radio stations, a state-subsidised worldwide radio and television news service and the most popular internet site in the UK. But he doesn't, the BBC does. So who influences more of what we see and hear?

I suspect the hatred of Murdoch (especially on the left) comes not from any pretence of 'power' but because of how he revolutionised Fleet Street and broke the stranglehold of the print unions. Without the likes of Murdoch and Eddy Shah our newspapers would still be inky, would contain no colour and would have little or no up-to-date news. Internet editions of newspapers would simply not exist; the power of the print unions would have put the kybosh to that. But where News International went the rest were sure to go, even the Guardian and the Mirror. Many of our news titles today were loss-making then (some still are) but they owe their existence to the actions of Murdoch and this is what rankles some.

Thought I would revive this thread for debate.
As we all know it is 2012 next year, and alhough I do not see it as the end of the world, I do believe there will be some major change.
I think the current economic system is all set for collapse as the debts worldwide are not sustainable. Austerity measures only put a temporary plaster on the wound, they are not cures.
Are we looking at a 'new world order' as many people feel or are there other solutions to this mess. I personally dont believe that the politicians ultimately control what goes on really, there are much more powerful people (eg Billderbergs) out there who pull the strings and they will be keen to hold onto their power at any cost. It will be a very bumpy ride for us all next year.
I'll probably be ridiculed as some sort of nut for posting this now.

Quoted from carrot top

Thought I would revive this thread for debate.
As we all know it is 2012 next year, and alhough I do not see it as the end of the world, I do believe there will be some major change.
I think the current economic system is all set for collapse as the debts worldwide are not sustainable. Austerity measures only put a temporary plaster on the wound, they are not cures.
Are we looking at a 'new world order' as many people feel or are there other solutions to this mess. I personally dont believe that the politicians ultimately control what goes on really, there are much more powerful people (eg Billderbergs) out there who pull the strings and they will be keen to hold onto their power at any cost. It will be a very bumpy ride for us all next year.
I'll probably be ridiculed as some of nut for posting this now.

I fear you are probably right. I don't subscribe (yet) to the doomsday prophecies, but I am becoming increasingly convinced by the NWO conspiracists.

Going back to the original issue of US debt, one of the things I don't get is the position regarding the UK. On 31 December 2006, the UK paid US$83m (£45.5m) to the US and so discharged the last of its loans from World War II. Now the UK is owed over US$300bn by the USA. Is this just institutional lending (ie UK banks/funds lending to the US) or does the US gov't actually owe the UK gov't? And if it is (and it probably is the case) institutional lending, how much must America owe it's own financial institutions? There must be some pretty big bubbles getting ready to burst....

There is something pretty big around the corner I fear. As carrot top said, what we have seen so far is merely a sticking plaster.

It is one thing when a high street retailer goes out of business (Woolworths). It is another when a clutch of banks need bailing out (RBS, Lloyds, Northern Rock). You know something is starting to look bad when an entire small country declares bankruptcy (Iceland). It gets worse when a series of slightly larger countries need bailing out (Ireland, Greece, Portugal). Then you start to worry when people start thinking larger countries like Italy, Spain and France maybe having some real trouble. And when the world's largest economy - the United States of America - is a mere few hours away from defaulting on its' debts for the first time ever........then it is squeaky bum time.

Cairns; America is the great economic paradox. The world's largest lender is also the world's largest borrower. In effect it's economy is so large it could pay back its' creditors overnight and have no debt whatsoever. It is just that it chooses not to.

2012 is, of course, when the Mayans predict the world will end. It reminded me of a dream I had last night in which the world ended; and I say a dream because it wasn't frightening. It was calm, peaceful and colourful as it was set in the countryside.

In my dream people all over the world started disappearing. There was no panic, everybody just seemed quite resigned to their fate. They packed their belonging and went.No one knew where, they just went. There was no outbreak of disease, no great catastrophy, no force. Even I seemed quite resigned to my fate. Only at the end when there were a handful of people were left (of which I was one obviously as it was my dream) did panic creep in. Then I woke up.

So, all you budding Freud's out there. What did it mean?

Town to get relegated this season?

Quoted from kingofthekippers

2012 is, of course, when the Mayans predict the world will end. It reminded me of a dream I had last night in which the world ended; and I say a dream because it wasn't frightening. It was calm, peaceful and colourful as it was set in the countryside.

In my dream people all over the world started disappearing. There was no panic, everybody just seemed quite resigned to their fate. They packed their belonging and went.No one knew where, they just went. There was no outbreak of disease, no great catastrophy, no force. Even I seemed quite resigned to my fate. Only at the end when there were a handful of people were left (of which I was one obviously as it was my dream) did panic creep in. Then I woke up.

So, all you budding Freud's out there. What did it mean?

Possibly connected to your religion?

Quoted from carrot top

Thought I would revive this thread for debate.
As we all know it is 2012 next year, and alhough I do not see it as the end of the world, I do believe there will be some major change.
I think the current economic system is all set for collapse as the debts worldwide are not sustainable. Austerity measures only put a temporary plaster on the wound, they are not cures.
Are we looking at a 'new world order' as many people feel or are there other solutions to this mess. I personally dont believe that the politicians ultimately control what goes on really, there are much more powerful people (eg Billderbergs) out there who pull the strings and they will be keen to hold onto their power at any cost. It will be a very bumpy ride for us all next year.
I'll probably be ridiculed as some sort of nut for posting this now.

To be honest there is so much evidence of this iminent and certainly pre-planned 'change' now that I can't believe anyone could doubt it or mock it.
Gorden Brown mentioned the NWO in at least 4 separate speeches yet the phrase seems to have gone unquestioned and even, really weirdly, completely unnoticed.
I would love to know what these people believe that allows them to live with themselves for the things they have done in order to bring about and ensure this very sinister globalisation takes place. Maybe there is some kind of greater knowledge which only this little boys' club is privy to? I just dont' know.

We are fed bullshit daily and unfortunately just bimble along as per usual, but really what else can we do. I certainly feel powerless at the moment, but at some point something will have to give. Will it be too late though. I hope not as I want to see Town promoted one more time (joke). Seriously though think about the Shite we are constantly fed regarding 'we are all in this together' rubbish etc. Prices on the up consistently and our leaders saying we have to tighten our belts blah blah blah! 'Times they are a changing'

Quoted from carrot top

We are fed bullshit daily and unfortunately just bimble along as per usual, but really what else can we do. I certainly feel powerless at the moment, but at some point something will have to give. Will it be too late though. I hope not as I want to see Town promoted one more time (joke). Seriously though think about the Shite we are constantly fed regarding 'we are all in this together' rubbish etc. Prices on the up consistently and our leaders saying we have to tighten our belts blah blah blah! 'Times they are a changing'

An unfortunate thing, and something that is not helped in any way imo by the very selfish mindset that results from a capitalist society, is that we see ourselves as a billion helpless individuals rather than one enormously powerful body.
I still find it nothing short of astonishing that such a small number of people can have so much control over so many. How does this happen? When you think about it it's really quite incredible. Something we take for granted though cos that's 'just how it is'.

Quoted from upthestripes

I still find it nothing short of astonishing that such a small number of people can have so much control over so many.

Just like communism then?

TBH take the Fishy as a microcosm, and you see how the world would be run if left to everyone to sort it out. To quote Blackadder "Give the likes of Baldrick the vote and we'll be back to cavorting druids, death by stoning, and dung for dinner."

Quoted from kingofthekippers

2012 is, of course, when the Mayans predict the world will end. It reminded me of a dream I had last night in which the world ended; and I say a dream because it wasn't frightening. It was calm, peaceful and colourful as it was set in the countryside.

In my dream people all over the world started disappearing. There was no panic, everybody just seemed quite resigned to their fate. They packed their belonging and went.No one knew where, they just went. There was no outbreak of disease, no great catastrophy, no force. Even I seemed quite resigned to my fate. Only at the end when there were a handful of people were left (of which I was one obviously as it was my dream) did panic creep in. Then I woke up.

So, all you budding Freud's out there. What did it mean?

Means you're mental? Seriously though, do you believe the world will end in 2012?

Quoted from mariner91

Means you're mental? Seriously though, do you believe the world will end in 2012?

It's not about the end of the world, more like a new beginning. I believe we have almost reached the end of our current cycle and something big has to give. It might not be all bad though.

Quoted from carrot top

It's not about the end of the world, more like a new beginning. I believe we have almost reached the end of our current cycle and something big has to give. It might not be all bad though.

And you believe it is something to do with economic problems?

Quoted from scrumble

Just like communism then?

TBH take the Fishy as a microcosm, and you see how the world would be run if left to everyone to sort it out. To quote Blackadder "Give the likes of Baldrick the vote and we'll be back to cavorting druids, death by stoning, and dung for dinner."

Sweet, does that mean Rob will be in charge & Chris and I are his Goebbels & Himmler, deleting people that break the rules?!?
Awesome! Ze vorld vill be a better place, comrades.

Quoted from Biccys

Sweet, does that mean Rob will be in charge & Chris and I are his Goebbels & Himmler, deleting people that break the rules?!?
Awesome! Ze vorld vill be a better place, comrades.

You're getting your Nazis and your communists mixed up there Biccys

Quoted from mariner91

Means you're mental? Seriously though, do you believe the world will end in 2012?

Fcuk me...only just read that. It's noo 19.04 pm, that gives me just another one hour and eight minutes before the world goes BANG! Out comes the dope, the malt, a decent red, and my favourite curry. If I'm going, I'm going to do it in some style! Would love to coincide with a stonking dump.....

Quoted from jock dock tower

Fcuk me...only just read that. It's noo 19.04 pm, that gives me just another one hour and eight minutes before the world goes BANG! Out comes the dope, the malt, a decent red, and my favourite curry. If I'm going, I'm going to do it in some style! Would love to coincide with a stonking dump.....

Would truly be the best way to go.

Quoted from upthestripes

You're getting your Nazis and your communists mixed up there Biccys

Yes.... Would that be the Communards...?!

America's debt is understandable to an extent. They were spending a fortune on the military while Bush was giving tax cuts to his chums in the oil industry. But it's incredible that Labour racked up a trillion pounds of debt when they were taxing every last penny they could get out of motorists, small businesses and people on various different salaries. In the good years they should have been putting rainy day funds aside not handing it out to scroungers and the EU (and of course themselves).

Quoted from AdamHaddock

America's debt is understandable to an extent. They were spending a fortune on the military while Bush was giving tax cuts to his chums in the oil industry. But it's incredible that Labour racked up a trillion pounds of debt when they were taxing every last penny they could get out of motorists, small businesses and people on various different salaries. In the good years they should have been putting rainy day funds aside not handing it out to scroungers and the EU (and of course themselves).

Analysis is a wee bit awry. They forgot to tax "non doms" they allowed loop holes in the law to let the super rich "pay" tax wherever they wanted to. Should have taxed them "until the pips squeak" I quote.
Strange isn't it, that 22 prominent financiers - probably the same people who got us into this mess - have caused a furore with their letter to the Times (carefully co-ordinated by Tory HQ) about lowering the 50 pence tax rate? Doubt there's any of those parasites who pay 20 pence in the pound, or even 40 pence in the pound. If they think it's disincentivising such people to work, and they'll move abroad because of it, I've a message for them "intercourse off if you don't like it"

Quoted from jock dock tower

Analysis is a wee bit awry. They forgot to tax "non doms" they allowed loop holes in the law to let the super rich "pay" tax wherever they wanted to. Should have taxed them "until the pips squeak" I quote.
Strange isn't it, that 22 prominent financiers - probably the same people who got us into this mess - have caused a furore with their letter to the Times (carefully co-ordinated by Tory HQ) about lowering the 50 pence tax rate? Doubt there's any of those parasites who pay 20 pence in the pound, or even 40 pence in the pound. If they think it's disincentivising such people to work, and they'll move abroad because of it, I've a message for them "intercourse off if you don't like it"

I have to say that it was comments like that in the 1970's that did see them intercourse off for pastures new, taking with them their talents and money-making prospects. It left us with a rabble of union trouble-makers and other malcontents combined with a weak socialist government that led to the winter of discontent and Margaret Thatcher and all that followed. I'm quite prepared to see the top rate of tax drop to 40% if it prevents a return to her mantra.

Quoted from kingofthekippers

I have to say that it was comments like that in the 1970's that did see them intercourse off for pastures new, taking with them their talents and money-making prospects. It left us with a rabble of union trouble-makers and other malcontents combined with a weak socialist government that led to the winter of discontent and Margaret Thatcher and all that followed. I'm quite prepared to see the top rate of tax drop to 40% if it prevents a return to her mantra.

KOTK "if it prevents a return to her mantra?" Have you been asleep for the last 6 months?

BTW, the people I refer to make money for themselves, they don't bring any "trickle down" wealth to the rest of the country, but they do expect tax payer bail outs when they intercourse up big style...and then still pay themselves huge bonuses having received said money. Make 'em squeak.