Ronnie Biggs

The Home Secretary has denied Great Train Robber Ronnie Biggs parole. Jack Straw cited Biggs' 'unrepentent attitude' and the way 'he courted media celebrity' during his years on the run.

Now I know Biggs is a frail, old man now but I'm with the Home Secretary on this one. Biggs broke the law, choose to escape from his punishment and was often on TV showing off his outlaw lifestyle in Brazil. He only volunteered to come back to the UK when the money had run out for his private healthcare in Brazil and to receive free treatment from the British taxpayer that he had treated with contempt for so many years. Am I being harsh or is the decision right?

As a comparison fellow Train robber Buster Edwards served only 9 years of his sentence and was released in 1975; Bruce Reynolds served 10 and was released in 1979. If Biggs had done his time he'd have been a free man decades ago.

Ronnie Biggs was doing time
Till he done a bunk
Now he says he's seen the light
and he sold his soul to punk.

Quoted from Civvy at last

Ronnie Biggs was doing time
Till he done a bunk
Now he says he's seen the light
and he sold his soul to punk.

Sex Pistols?

Quoted from kingofthekippers

Sex Pistols?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihz5TjiNiiE

Quoted from kingofthekippers

The Home Secretary has denied Great Train Robber Ronnie Biggs parole. Jack Straw cited Biggs' 'unrepentent attitude' and the way 'he courted media celebrity' during his years on the run.

Now I know Biggs is a frail, old man now but I'm with the Home Secretary on this one. Biggs broke the law, choose to escape from his punishment and was often on TV showing off his outlaw lifestyle in Brazil. He only volunteered to come back to the UK when the money had run out for his private healthcare in Brazil and to receive free treatment from the British taxpayer that he had treated with contempt for so many years. Am I being harsh or is the decision right?

As a comparison fellow Train robber Buster Edwards served only 9 years of his sentence and was released in 1975; Bruce Reynolds served 10 and was released in 1979. If Biggs had done his time he'd have been a free man decades ago.

there was a phone in on this on one of the talk stations as we went to Bournemouth, loads of people putting lots of interesting points forward. Agree with the do the crime do the time stance but what must urine old timers like himself off is the fact that what would he get for similar offence now? a few years? Murderers dont even get life nowadays and i dont recall him being sent down for that.
He should do his time but the sentencing of the current courts are disgraceful.
And dont get me started on the American system, 150 yrs for fraud!! haha, the guy is 63(?), he should be thinking...i will have the last laugh here ...i will only serve a quarter of that !!

Quoted from moosey_club

there was a phone in on this on one of the talk stations as we went to Bournemouth, loads of people putting lots of interesting points forward. Agree with the do the crime do the time stance but what must urine old timers like himself off is the fact that what would he get for similar offence now? a few years? Murderers dont even get life nowadays and i dont recall him being sent down for that.
He should do his time but the sentencing of the current courts are disgraceful.
And dont get me started on the American system, 150 yrs for fraud!! haha, the guy is 63(?), he should be thinking...i will have the last laugh here ...i will only serve a quarter of that !!

There was much debate at the time over the length of the sentences. Although the Great Train Robbery was one hell of a crime, the sentences of 30 years were considered to be more politically orientated then a fair punishment. In reality the robbers served just a third of that and they were all out of the nick (bar Biggs) by 1980.

Agree wholeheartedly that sentencing today is pathetic and bears no resemblance to the crime. If you look at the Great Train Robbers the sum they stole (£2.6m) is worth £40m today; for this they received 30 years. The Securitas depot robbers who stole £53m in 2006 recieved life with a recommendation they serve a minimum of 15 years - if they behave they will only serve 5 years more than the GTR. And they kidnapped a family and held them hostage.

The gang who robbed the Lloyds Bank in Baker Street in 1971 (the basis of the film The Bank Job) escaped with the equivalent of £32m but were sentenced to just 12 years.

But, as they say, if you can't do the time don't do the crime.

You murder somebody nowdays all you get is 10 years behind bars,

30 years for robbing a train ?

I know a guard died of his injuries,

BUT it was not Biggs who hit him was it ?

He commited the crime so he should pay the price,

30 years was over the top  IMO

If you murder somebody you should hang ,IMO

Quoted from grimsby pete

You murder somebody nowdays all you get is 10 years behind bars,

30 years for robbing a train ?

I know a guard died of his injuries,

BUT it was not Biggs who hit him was it ?

He commited the crime so he should pay the price,

30 years was over the top  IMO

If you murder somebody you should hang ,IMO

In the robbery the diesel train driver, Jack Mills, was coshed using an iron bar - whoever struck the blow is still not known to this day. Mills never fully recovered from the attack and never worked again. In 1970, seven years after the attack he died of leukemia. This condition was medically unrelated to the attack although it has been suggested that it could have been indirectly related to the assault.

At that time the law stated that if a victim of an assault lived for more than a year and a day after it, it could not be treated as murder.

Biggs dared to stick 2 fingers-up to 'The Establishment' and will suffer the consequences as a result!

A lovable old rogue ain't he?

Quoted from NorfolkImp

Biggs dared to stick 2 fingers-up to 'The Establishment' and will suffer the consequences as a result!

A lovable old rogue ain't he?

Think there's a line in the song that you might like Aryan.  Something about "only having fun"  

Quoted from kingofthekippers

In the robbery the diesel train driver, Jack Mills, was coshed using an iron bar - whoever struck the blow is still not known to this day. Mills never fully recovered from the attack and never worked again. In 1970, seven years after the attack he died of leukemia. This condition was medically unrelated to the attack although it has been suggested that it could have been indirectly related to the assault.

At that time the law stated that if a victim of an assault lived for more than a year and a day after it, it could not be treated as murder.

Interestingly at the time that comments were made that the severity of the sentences was because "The Establishment" saw the Great Train Robbery as firstly stage 1 in a bizarre game of one-up-manship as criminal gangs sought to outdo each other and the need to deter such behaviour, and secondly, deflect public opinion away from the laid back way in which they treated that amount of money.
Personally I find it strange that even without the death penalty crimes against the person seem to be considered less punishable than crimes against "the system" or is it just me?

Quoted from barralad

Interestingly at the time that comments were made that the severity of the sentences was because "The Establishment" saw the Great Train Robbery as firstly stage 1 in a bizarre game of one-up-manship as criminal gangs sought to outdo each other and the need to deter such behaviour, and secondly, deflect public opinion away from the laid back way in which they treated that amount of money.
Personally I find it strange that even without the death penalty crimes against the person seem to be considered less punishable than crimes against "the system" or is it just me?

It is rather bizarre. You can commit murder and receive a sentence of ten years. Or you can rob a bank at gunpoint and receive fifteen.

Even more bizarre is that you can mismanage said bank and walk away with a gold-plated pension for life.

Quoted from kingofthekippers

In the robbery the diesel train driver, Jack Mills, was coshed using an iron bar - whoever struck the blow is still not known to this day. Mills never fully recovered from the attack and never worked again. In 1970, seven years after the attack he died of leukemia. This condition was medically unrelated to the attack although it has been suggested that it could have been indirectly related to the assault.

At that time the law stated that if a victim of an assault lived for more than a year and a day after it, it could not be treated as murder.

Eh? How does a blow to the head indirectly cause bone marrow cancer?

Quoted from immariner

Eh? How does a blow to the head indirectly cause bone marrow cancer?

The post-mortem on the driver showed, quite correctly, that his leukemia was in no way linked to his assault, even more so after seven years had passed. However his family maintain that after the assault Mr Mills became withdrawn and depressed; he certainly never worked again after the robbery. Don't forget: assault by stranger and robbery are commonplace today but in the early 1960's were still a rarity.

His family insist that his change in character after the assault led to a downbeat personality and the eventual diagnosis. Of course there is no proof that this led to the cause of death.

Depends what form of leukemia it was I suppose, but still, no one can say it wouldn't have happened had he not had a bonk on the noggin', so it's a redundant point really.