Attendances

Some really poor ones last night ours was bad BUT less than 1k at Morecombe when the visitors were the localish Crewe who surely would have had 200 or so?Just over 1k at Accy which whilst not unusual with Blackburn away at Oxford on the same night must be disappointing for them?

Quoted from 1mickylyons

Some really poor ones last night ours was bad BUT less than 1k at Morecombe when the visitors were the localish Crewe who surely would have had 200 or so?Just over 1k at Accy which whilst not unusual with Blackburn away at Oxford on the same night must be disappointing for them?

Yeah, I saw that Morecambe attendance. 927!! Must be the lowest gate for any league game for quite a while.

Wet Tuesday night with Champions League on the telly. Town attendance was about what i was expecting.

Quoted from ginnywings

Wet Tuesday night with Champions League on the telly. Town attendance was about what i was expecting.

I said before the game that I thought we'd just scrape 3000 which wasn't far wrong.

Only about 30 odd  more at Bury last night to see the bottom team BEAT the top team in L1.

Was at Queen of the outh vs Montrose Scottish Cup replay last night. Was expecting it to be less than 1,000 because of the alternative attractions in the Champion's League, but they got just 784, lowest home league gate for donkey's years. Bless Murdoch the high priest of fitba drama.

Does the Champions League have such an impact on attendances these days now it's not on ITV? (Although I know BT (not Sky) put the odd game of interest on free tv)

Quoted from Abdul19

Does the Champions League have such an impact on attendances these days now it's not on ITV? (Although I know BT (not Sky) put the odd game of interest on free tv)

My nieces fella is a half ar$ed Town fan and he will stay home on CL nights doing his online bets. I think it may knock a few off the gate, but not that many. Tuesday night games are always a little down on the norm anyway. I suspect those that have to travel any distance won't bother on a weekday. Then there is the football, which has been driving people away. The last home game was 300 down on the one before, so the trend is down anyway. Surprisingly, my brother turned up last night after saying he wouldn't be bothering. That's two games in a row now.

Quoted from ginnywings

My nieces fella is a half ar$ed Town fan and he will stay home on CL nights doing his online bets. I think it may knock a few off the gate, but not that many. Tuesday night games are always a little down on the norm anyway. I suspect those that have to travel any distance won't bother on a weekday. Then there is the football, which has been driving people away. The last home game was 300 down on the one before, so the trend is down anyway. Surprisingly, my brother turned up last night after saying he wouldn't be bothering. That's two games in a row now.

The crowds at Town are and have been low for a long time anything 5k+ is regarded as a good gate and I suppose at League 2 level it probably is a good gate with typically small away followings.I much prefer night games but I don`t really know why and I was saying as we walked to the ground I never ever used to go into BP expecting to see Town lose regardless of the opposition.I don`t think it would take nearly as much persuasion to get home support over 6k on a regular basis as some seem to think but they won`t just blindly turn up even if were winning every week.The Club needs to embrace the support and build on it cos it`s out there .

Quoted from 1mickylyons

The crowds at Town are and have been low for a long time anything 5k+ is regarded as a good gate and I suppose at League 2 level it probably is a good gate with typically small away followings.I much prefer night games but I don`t really know why and I was saying as we walked to the ground I never ever used to go into BP expecting to see Town lose regardless of the opposition.I don`t think it would take nearly as much persuasion to get home support over 6k on a regular basis as some seem to think but they won`t just blindly turn up even if were winning every week.The Club needs to embrace the support and build on it cos it`s out there .

We've not really been any good at home for the last 20 years , you can sort of see why everyone seems to prefer away games

Shocked at the attendances at both Morecambe and Accrington, pathetic support from absolute gutless clubs.

Teams with fanbases like that should be nowhere near the football league. Ridiculous.

Quoted from AndyDarloFC

Shocked at the attendances at both Morecambe and Accrington, pathetic support from absolute gutless clubs.

Teams with fanbases like that should be nowhere near the football league. Ridiculous.

To play Devil's Advocate Andy, if that's the case, why bother with the football? Why not just count the fans?

If it was the case that Morecambe and Accy had rich benefactors like Dale Vince at FGR then I'd have a bit more sympathy.

You'd also be pretty drunk off if Middlesborough fans sad that if Darlo got into the Championship.

Quoted from AndyDarloFC

Shocked at the attendances at both Morecambe and Accrington, pathetic support from absolute gutless clubs.

Teams with fanbases like that should be nowhere near the football league. Ridiculous.

Dont agree. Football must be decided upon the respective playing abilities not the size of the crowd.

Accrington have got where they are by astute player recruitment and then forming them in to a team. Take away the opportunity to advance through on the field matters then football is totally finished IMO

I'm not doubting the footballing abilities of the said teams, I'm just saying the there's many a Non-League club who get excess of 3000 per week. Yet these clubs struggle to get 1/2k per week.

Like you say above, Accrington have had a great couple of seasons and I am baffled as to why people from the town aren't backing them in a few more numbers.

It's just utterly ridiculous how sides like those can operate on crowds that low. Mental.

Can't understand why the league schedule midweek games from November through to February when it's dark, cold, wet etc. Why not play more midweek games early in September and October especially half term etc when the weather is better.

Quoted from 1mickylyons

Some really poor ones last night ours was bad BUT less than 1k at Morecombe when the visitors were the localish Crewe who surely would have had 200 or so?Just over 1k at Accy which whilst not unusual with Blackburn away at Oxford on the same night must be disappointing for them?

There were 205 Crewe fans, so only 702 home fans!

Quoted from Gaffer58

Can't understand why the league schedule midweek games from November through to February when it's dark, cold, wet etc. Why not play more midweek games early in September and October especially half term etc when the weather is better.

Also, why don't they make them more local? It's a long way from Wiltshire on a week night.

Quoted from Gaffer58

Can't understand why the league schedule midweek games from November through to February when it's dark, cold, wet etc. Why not play more midweek games early in September and October especially half term etc when the weather is better.

A lot of those weeks are taken up with micky mouse cups

Quoted from ginnywings

Also, why don't they make them more local? It's a long way from Wiltshire on a week night.

I read about this in the Guardian about a fortnight back, and believe it or not it's a deliberate ploy by the Football League as they think the Saturday crowds for nearer to home games will mean better attendances. I just think they're completely barking! It certainly explains some of the more bizarre away games last year for Town. Although the article below is from 2008, complaining about the same thing, it perhaps does give some insight into midweek fixture compliation.


A 660-mile round trip on a Tuesday night is a step too far
The long journeys required by Football League fans this midweek were a joke, but is it a problem that can be resolved?
Doncaster football fans
Weary supporters at Doncaster Rovers' Keepmoat Stadium. Photograph: Asadour Guzelian/Guardian
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John Ashdown
@John_Ashdown
Friday 28 November 2008 12.49 GMT First published on Friday 28 November 2008 12.49 GMT
It's a tough time to be a supporter in the Football League. For many, any early-season optimism has been eradicated by the testing times of autumn. Some teams are hunkering down for a winter of relegation dogfights, while the fortunate few look forward to promotion scraps. The time it takes toes on the terraces to go from nought to frozen is little more than 20 minutes, no amount of woolly hats and scarves can prevent the chill from getting into your bones. And travelling fans are bracing themselves for long nights on dark, lonely motorways in cars and club coaches or preparing for the ever-entertaining fun and games of the railway timetables.

It's this last point that has come into stark focus this week. It was pointed out on Monday's blog – and we've received several emails reiterating the same point – that this week's midweek Football League fixtures have been a nightmare for many away fans. One colleague of mine in the office suggested they were "a joke". The average distance for travelling fans to watch their team this week? A 306-mile round trip. It's no wonder that supporters up and down the country have been decidedly irked.

The statistics make quite interesting reading, so forgive me if I come over all Knowledge for a moment. (By the way, for the bulk of these figures I'm greatly indebted to the slightly scarily fanatical Tony Kempster and his utterly brilliant website – it really is a must for any lower league stats junkies out there).

In the Championship the average round trip was 221 miles, in League One 352 miles and in League Two 341 miles. Of the 34 midweek fixtures only eight involved a one-way trip of less than 100 miles, and just three journeys were less than 80 miles. This on a late-November evening with the risk of postponements (though fortunately no journeys were wasted this week, unless you count Morecambe fans' 660-mile round journey for a 0-0 at Bournemouth).

The five longest journeys this week were:
Morecambe's trip to Bournemouth (330 miles one way and the club's longest away trip of the season)
Carlisle's trip to Millwall (319 miles)
Bristol Rovers' trip to Hartlepool (278 miles)
Rochdale's trip to Gillingham (258 miles, the club's second longest away trip of the season)
Brighton's trip to Stockport (254 miles, the club's longest away trip of the season)

(In addition, the 247 miles from Rotherham to Exeter is the Millers' second longest journey of the season.)

By way of comparison, the five shortest were:
Charlton's trip to QPR (17 miles)
Brentford's visit to Luton (35 miles)
Nottingham Forest's visit to Doncaster (50 miles)
Chesterfield's visit to Bradford (81 miles)
Walsall's visit to Oldham (88 miles)

So it's been a week of half-day holidays and bleary-eyed mornings for supporters up and down the country. Why does it happen? There are plenty of reasons — the sheer number of midweek fixtures played by clubs in Leagues One and Two (Scunthorpe, for example, are already scheduled to play 12 midweek games this season, with the potential for more with cup replays and success in the Johnstone's Paint Trophy), the geographical spread of teams and the fact that some clubs are happy to play their long-distance fixtures in midweek.

David Cookson, fixtures secretary at the Football League pointed out in 2005:

"Supporters need to recognise that some clubs prefer to make long journeys in midweek - it cuts down on their overheads because they don't need to pay for overnight accommodation. The club will travel on the day of the game and head straight home after the match. These requests mean we now have very limited options when we try to minimise travel with supporters in mind. Fans do need to know that we do try and help them as much as we can, but at the end of the day the Football League has to get the fixtures played."

Ian Todd, the supporters' representative on the Football League's fixtures working party, and a 12-year veteran of the fixture-compiling process, feels it is simply not possible to make all midweek fixtures favourable for fans. "I recall not this season but the previous season, which was Morecambe's first season back in the Football League, they had a midweek fixture at Dagenham and Redbridge," he says. "I pointed that out and said 'For heaven's sake, are you expecting Morecambe to go to Dagenham and Redbridge on a Tuesday night?' And they looked at that within the fixture process and by reducing Morecambe's particular travel for that particular week, it increased the travel for everyone else within that their group [as part of the fixture-compiling process clubs are split up into groups within their respective divisions].

"It's very difficult but they are paying a little more attention to it. I do get some time before the final meeting and I do try and identify those that will cause concern. Out of a club's midweek games they try and ensure that no more than two are long-distance fixtures, though those are the ones that you always remember, of course. I recall a few years ago when Swansea were in League Two and their nearest clubs were Orient one year and Swindon the next. The geographical split is a problem for the Carlisles, the Yeovils, the Dagenhams, the Southends ... it's absolutely impossible to guarantee short distances."

The league strive for improvements each season and there is a system in place if clubs have any special requests or issues with the season's fixtures (for example, a growing concern among clubs is the scheduling of games on Champions League nights). And to give the fixture compilers their due, some match-ups this week were eminently sensible. Plymouth were away at Southampton, for example, Swansea played in Coventry (still 167 miles away, but less than the average away trip of 201 miles for Swans fans), and Chester's trip to Darlington could have been worse.

So how to solve this problem? Extending the season to reduce the number of midweek games? It's already stretched to bursting point. A blanket ban on midweek trips over, say, 150 miles? There are already so many factors involved in the process and restrictions in place. The computer would likely explode and Plymouth would only be able to play Bristol City. Regionalisation? That's a whole other basket of fish – and probably a blog in its own right. It would certainly ease the burden – both financial and time-wise – on fans, but would that be enough to offset the other problems it would bring? I'd imagine it's an issue that will raise its head more and more over the coming years. But for now it looks like the fans will have to grin and bear it.

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Quoted from grimps

We've not really been any good at home for the last 20 years , you can sort of see why everyone seems to prefer away games

Yes I take that point grimps but I like many others of a certain age who started supporting Town late 70s can vividly remember walking to the ground in my case with my Grandad and Uncles telling me how it was a fortress away teams hated playing there etc. My first game Town won 5-1 v Brentford and I think I was taken to 3-4 other games that Season the last one being Sheff Utd when we won the league and Town won every game.The two things I remember most about the home support back then it wasn`t on edge it expected to win and it backed the team unconditionally.I have no idea what the away followings were like at the time I don`t remember seeing much in the way of away supporters at BP but the gates were all 10k+. I think Town have a hardcore of around 4k but a massive floating support of around 15k+ and yet they never do anything to entice them in other than the same old and they compound that by taking the 4k for granted with the same old.It needs to change if they want to progress.

You only have to look at Doncaster Rovers to see how missing suppport can come back. After being systematically run down and basically thrown to the wolves the club came back. Attendances at the Keep Moat are still a healthy 7,000ish despite their precarious position in the league - a far cry from the gates of 1,500 odd when they were non league.

I love BP, and will really feel a loss when it does eventually go, but accept that a new ground can have the desired effect in turning finances around and bringing new fans in with the god-awful "matchday experience" Makes me wonder where we go wrong when Scunny can change grounds twice  - both times to new builds - and we still look on forlornly. Why would that be, I wonder?

This may not be a popular view but maybe it is time to look at regionalisation again.

We have regionalised football at our grade of non league football in Scotland. The furthest my club has to travel is 53 miles from base, apart from Junior Cup ties which are national, so I have a 94 mile journey to Hill O'Beath Hawthorn this weekend, but that's the exception to the rule.

Regionalised football does give bigger crowds up here, when teams like ours travel away and take 250-300 to most games. Other teams might bring  a mini bus full, so it works for some but not others, but it certainly does help with managing a club's finances over the season with less travel involved.

Quoted from barralad

This may not be a popular view but maybe it is time to look at regionalisation again.

I have thought that for a long time Ian,

Bigger crowds and less travel expense for fans and clubs,

Makes more sense than a under 21 team in the league.

Quoted from barralad

This may not be a popular view but maybe it is time to look at regionalisation again.

Not for me really. I enjoy my trips and overnight stays at places like Exeter and Torquay when we were in The Conference.

I know there are some extreme cases like Hartlepool and Carlisle being several galaxies away from Torquay and Exeter for example but the average distance between league grounds is probably around a few hours. I don’t see why in the age of motorways, high speed (and high cost) rail and even aeroplane we’d need regionalisation in professional English football.

If they did regionalisation I think would mean League Two North and League Two South,  as there are more professional teams than in the Division Three North/South days. I can't see League One wanting to lower their standard. So it would mean merging with the National League and trips to places like Guiseley again! Plus only 2 promotion places instead of the 4 we currently enjoy.

Back in the days of Division 3 North and South there was only one promotion place from each division. There was one team (Plymouth I think it was) who finished runners-up for 5 or 6 seasons on the trot. That must have been soul destroying for them and their fans.

Quoted from Les Brechin

Not for me really. I enjoy my trips and overnight stays at places like Exeter and Torquay when we were in The Conference.

You could always have an overnight in Donny should we cross their paths again soon?

Quoted from jock dock tower

You could always have an overnight in Donny should we cross their paths again soon?

We had a good few nights out in Donny in the 60's.

The girls did not believe us when we said we had come from Grimsby.

Quoted from jock dock tower

We have regionalised football at our grade of non league football in Scotland. The furthest my club has to travel is 53 miles from base, apart from Junior Cup ties which are national, so I have a 94 mile journey to Hill O'Beath Hawthorn this weekend, but that's the exception to the rule.

I've seen them but they'll never amount to a hill o'beans.