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Was at the game. I don’t expect much from a friendly at this point in the season but that was particularly turgid. Chilwell and Gallagher woeful. A wasted chance at making a case to Southgate for Watkins - no idea why Toney didn’t come on but Kane’s return to Munich might explain. Gordon looked OK as did Bowen when he came on. They’ll look different come June.

Southgate is flipping HOPELESS as a manager. Always was. Always will be.

Quoted from Badger57

Southgate is flipping HOPELESS as a manager. Always was. Always will be.

But he's achieved more in knockout tournaments than any other manager in the last 30 years with arguably the worst talent pool to pick from. Be fair, he's done alright

Quoted from pen penfras

But he's achieved more in knockout tournaments than any other manager in the last 30 years with arguably the worst talent pool to pick from. Be fair, he's done alright

He’s had very easy runs to get him to these semi finals /finals and the moment we’ve played anyone any good we’ve lost ( we did beat a average German team I admit ) I’m not convinced by him and if going deep into tournaments is success rather than winning them Gareth’s ur man

Quoted from pen penfras

But he's achieved more in knockout tournaments than any other manager in the last 30 years with arguably the worst talent pool to pick from. Be fair, he's done alright

The worst talent pool? It can be strongly argued that he’s had the best IMO.

The golden generation of Gerrard, Beckham etc was a fantastic starting lineup, the players that Southgate has represents a very good 26 man squad, something we’ve never had before.

I’m not sure last night was really down to Southgate, but I’m definitely in the camp of not rating him. I read a stat last week that said he’d won 4 games from 24 fixtures versus teams in the top 10 at the time of playing, last night makes that 4 in 25. That’s an absolutely dreadful stat for a side that should be challenging for the top prizes now and I can name multiple games where Southgate has been directly at fault for it (I’ll never forgive that Euros final).

I’m going to the Euros this year and I’m buzzing for it, but last night slightly dampened that optimism.

Had 12 Regulars missing didnt they? I dont follow the National team but is a loss to Brazil with most of the first 11 missing really an issue in a friendly? Not too sure it is.

Quoted from pontoonlew

The worst talent pool? It can be strongly argued that he’s had the best IMO.

The golden generation of Gerrard, Beckham etc was a fantastic starting lineup, the players that Southgate has represents a very good 26 man squad, something we’ve never had before.

I’m not sure last night was really down to Southgate, but I’m definitely in the camp of not rating him. I read a stat last week that said he’d won 4 games from 24 fixtures versus teams in the top 10 at the time of playing, last night makes that 4 in 25. That’s an absolutely dreadful stat for a side that should be challenging for the top prizes now and I can name multiple games where Southgate has been directly at fault for it (I’ll never forgive that Euros final).

I’m going to the Euros this year and I’m buzzing for it, but last night slightly dampened that optimism.

Having a squad with similar quality good players isn't better than a team with about 12 exceptional players and poor backup. It's the first choice 11 that you put out and ours is nowhere near the best teams. Our back 5 is the worst I can remember.

A manager's performance should be judged on how far you go vs where your team should be. Whether we had lucky runs or not, we've only ever done better than Southgate once and a lot more than half the country weren't born when that happened.

GS is a perfect fit for the FA but not for a team wanting to win tournaments hes got no pedigree or killer instinct. The only thing is who on earth can you bring in to win something?

Quoted from 1mickylyons

GS is a perfect fit for the FA but not for a team wanting to win tournaments hes got no pedigree or killer instinct. The only thing is who on earth can you bring in to win something?

For the job that needed doing Southgate was absolutely the right appointment at that time as too many good players couldn’t care less about playing for England as the culture & environment was so poor.

Southgate has fixed that & players at varying stages of their careers want to be part of the set up, respect the manager & have pride in the shirt again.

Gareth has completed his objective but it now needs someone to come in after the euros to take tte hand brake off and maximise the talent at their disposal, I have now idea who but I suspect it will be Eddie Howe.

The other thing is you have to take international football in the context it is. It’s not like the club game in that you’re not going for 4 trophies a season, you play for one trophy every two years and a lot has to go right at several levels for a number of years to win a tournament, maybe England are still on that journey and just need someone new to guide them home.

A comment in the papers today that good club players are often not sure of their England role. They come from clubs who play different football and tactics.

Not sure about this. Surely say Spanish and Italian players have the same issues?

I don't rate Southgate that much and think he's benefitted from easy tournament draws, until they face one of the strong nations and inevitably get knocked out. England should've won the delayed 2020 Euro's, again benefitting from a relatively straight forward draw and also apart from the Ukraine match all their games at Wembley. Who knows though? England on paper look like one of the top teams for the forthcoming Euros, especially in attack.

I think we'll ultimately see how good a manager Southgate is when he goes back into club management. His pre-England managerial record wasn't much to write home about.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

For the job that needed doing Southgate was absolutely the right appointment at that time as too many good players couldn’t care less about playing for England as the culture & environment was so poor.

Southgate has fixed that & players at varying stages of their careers want to be part of the set up, respect the manager & have pride in the shirt again.

Gareth has completed his objective but it now needs someone to come in after the euros to take tte hand brake off and maximise the talent at their disposal, I have now idea who but I suspect it will be Eddie Howe.

The other thing is you have to take international football in the context it is. It’s not like the club game in that you’re not going for 4 trophies a season, you play for one trophy every two years and a lot has to go right at several levels for a number of years to win a tournament, maybe England are still on that journey and just need someone new to guide them home.

Sorry pal anybody who picks and plays Henderson constantly over the likes of Foden,Grealish,Maddison amongst others is never going to win anything. If England picked there best eleven you'd need two foitballs even Brazil would struggle to get the ball.

Quoted from Manchester Mariner

I don't rate Southgate that much and think he's benefitted from easy tournament draws, until they face one of the strong nations and inevitably get knocked out. England should've won the delayed 2020 Euro's, again benefitting from a relatively straight forward draw and also apart from the Ukraine match all their games at Wembley. Who knows though? England on paper look like one of the top teams for the forthcoming Euros, especially in attack.

I think we'll ultimately see how good a manager Southgate is when he goes back into club management. His pre-England managerial record wasn't much to write home about.

I do agree with most of that, but it is fair to point out tbat Southgate has competitive wins against Italy, Spain, Germany, Belgium, Croatia, Denmark…….

Quoted from 1mickylyons

Sorry pal anybody who picks and plays Henderson constantly over the likes of Foden,Grealish,Maddison amongst others is never going to win anything. If England picked there best eleven you'd need two foitballs even Brazil would struggle to get the ball.

You clearly didn’t get the point I was making. If the culture around the side wasn’t fixed we’d have more tournament finishes like the 2014 World Cup & 2016 Euros.

For what it’s worth I think Henderson should have been discarded after the last Euros.

I saw the last 20 minutes and I thought that the goal should have been disallowed as he was running.
You can't run in walking football

Bellingham saves England's blushes with a 5th minute injury time equaliser.

FT England 2-2 Belgium

Quoted from promotion plaice

Bellingham saves England's blushes with a 5th minute injury time equaliser.

FT England 2-2 Belgium

Not really blushes. There was some very good play by England tonight, deserved a draw at least. Two shocking errors for their goals .
This was an England reserves side apart from a couple of players

In other news Wales v Poland is on a knife edge, could be going to penalties.

Watching the Welsh penalties now. 4 out of the first 6 were hit straight down the middle of the goal, and all went in!

Quoted from Maringer

Watching the Welsh penalties now. 4 out of the first 6 were hit straight down the middle of the goal, and all went in!

Should have picked Clifton.

And they are out. Lots of decent penalties but a lack of conviction for the last one. The only one which either of the keepers got close to.

I don't think Southgate is that bad as an international manager - the game against Italy in that Euro's final was there for the taking though - I felt that was our big chance for a trophy and we bottled it big time - Italy were no great shakes but we reverted to type of trying to see out a 1-0 after 6 minutes or however quickly we scored .

I thought in the Qatar world cup game against France we played regreshingly well and were unlucky so he deserves this tournament at least ; I don't really care for the qualifying or friendlies tbh as it all seems pretty predictable and in the friendlies you can see it's not players going for it 100% a lot of the time .

We played some good stuff at times last night, but the number of times we were tip-tapping at the edge of their box (or inside it), yet didn't get a shot away was really frustrating. I'm comparison, they got a shot on goal or a cross in almost every time they entered our box.

Terrible errors from the defence for their goals. No idea what Pickford was doing and I've no idea why Dunk panicked and lunged in to try and clear that ball. He was ahead of Lukaku and could have tapped it out easily if he'd taken another pace or two. A beautiful cross from Lukaku for the goal after that, however.

A very inexperienced defence in international terms once Stones went off, and Gomez just isn't up to it as a full-back. Chilwell did OK after an apparently poor performance on Saturday night (only caught the odd snatch of that game). Toney took the penalty well, managed a couple of decent runs but otherwise didn't do a great deal, albeit against a very solid defence.

Watkins did well to stop the ball going out for the equaliser but I don't think he's near being a top-quality international striker. If Kane is injured, we'll struggle as Toney, Watkins and Rashford aren't good enough reliably enough in my opinion.

We've got some very talented midfielders (Mainoo looked very capable last night for such a young lad), but I'm not sure that will be quite enough unless someone like Bellingham has a fantastic tournament.

Just as long as Henderson doesn't get near the squad...

Thought last nights game was quite entertaining & competitive for a meaningless friendly that in reality you can't judge any side on. We had quite a few chances that with better finishes would have been converted. Also on a few occasions players tried to score when there where better options in space.

If you read between the lines I think this will be Gareth's last tournament, as I said above overall in terms of culture and engagement he's made the England squad a better place to be for players but it certainly feels like someone new now needs to come in to truly get the best out of the talent we have.

Who takes the reigns next is a bit of a conundrum to be honest as I don't think they have to necessarily be English but my belief is they should have had to have won something,

Quoted from Maringer

We played some good stuff at times last night, but the number of times we were tip-tapping at the edge of their box (or inside it), yet didn't get a shot away was really frustrating. I'm comparison, they got a shot on goal or a cross in almost every time they entered our box.

Terrible errors from the defence for their goals. No idea what Pickford was doing and I've no idea why Dunk panicked and lunged in to try and clear that ball. He was ahead of Lukaku and could have tapped it out easily if he'd taken another pace or two. A beautiful cross from Lukaku for the goal after that, however.

A very inexperienced defence in international terms once Stones went off, and Gomez just isn't up to it as a full-back. Chilwell did OK after an apparently poor performance on Saturday night (only caught the odd snatch of that game). Toney took the penalty well, managed a couple of decent runs but otherwise didn't do a great deal, albeit against a very solid defence.

Watkins did well to stop the ball going out for the equaliser but I don't think he's near being a top-quality international striker. If Kane is injured, we'll struggle as Toney, Watkins and Rashford aren't good enough reliably enough in my opinion.

We've got some very talented midfielders (Mainoo looked very capable last night for such a young lad), but I'm not sure that will be quite enough unless someone like Bellingham has a fantastic tournament.

Just as long as Henderson doesn't get near the squad...

I really like John Stones , on the admitted small sample size of games I have seen him as I don't watch many of either England or City - I thought the few times I saw him for City as a midfield player he looked brilliant - have they tried him there alongside Rice ?

We need Stones in defence. For the first time that I can remember, we've got loads of decent central midfielders available. Relatively speaking, of course. We badly need Walker back and fit because we've got nobody else who can play on the right side of defence/right back who is anywhere near as good at present. Unless Ben White comes back in from the cold.

It's difficult, though, because Bellingham has apparently been playing a more advanced role for Real (hence the 20 goals scored so far), but I think we're probably going to see him playing a bit deeper than that for England. He was trying to do both jobs last night and overcooked it a bit at times, but still scored the important goal, of course.

The defence is the biggest worry . I would take quasnah, he looks quality. We are lacking in reliable centre half’s

Is Shaw going to be fit? He's by far the best left-back we have.

That said, Chilwell didn't do bad last night, so a decent replacement if necessary.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Who takes the reigns next is a bit of a conundrum to be honest as I don't think they have to necessarily be English but my belief is they should have had to have won something,

Southgate will take the Manure job (pmsl) and Klopp will take the England job..so my tea leaves said this morning..or it could be that my PG tips bag just broke.

Quoted from Sigone

Southgate will take the Manure job (pmsl) and Klopp will take the England job..so my tea leaves said this morning..or it could be that my PG tips bag just broke.

Klopp would be well set up for international football as he already thinks the World is against him.

Quoted from Maringer

Is Shaw going to be fit? He's by far the best left-back we have.

That said, Chilwell didn't do bad last night, so a decent replacement if necessary.

In theory shaw will be fit but unlikely to be able to play all the games in a short space of time.

I actually thought chilwell has been poor in both games. His distribution going forward is really poor and you must have quality in those positions at international level. Interestingly, the longer the game went on the less his colleagues passed to him as they were chasing the game and didn’t trust him.

That whole defence is a worry, Maguire looked better when not playing for manure than he does now so the whole left side of defence is a real issue

Stop worrying, Southgate has it all planned out, Henderson playing in front of the back 4, in fact when Southgate gets the manure job Henderson will be his first signing on a 5 year contract.

Quoted from Posh Harry

In theory shaw will be fit but unlikely to be able to play all the games in a short space of time.

I actually thought chilwell has been poor in both games. His distribution going forward is really poor and you must have quality in those positions at international level. Interestingly, the longer the game went on the less his colleagues passed to him as they were chasing the game and didn’t trust him.

That whole defence is a worry, Maguire looked better when not playing for manure than he does now so the whole left side of defence is a real issue

Chilwell seemed to be scared to go forward, he passed it backwards every time he saw an opponent anywhere near him.

I would have liked to see Levi Colwill given a chance.