Not good enough for a team 4th bottom of English fourth tier.

Plays tonight in front of about 50,000 at Rangers.

Is it a case of how strong GTFC and league 4 are in England or how crap Scottish Premiership is?

He's moved on. We chose to move him on to free up wages to go in a different direction.

I really like the guy so good luck to him. I hope he succeeds.

I'd hope we can stop looking for every opportunity to "I told you so" and just be happy for him. I personally would have kept him, but I'm not a manager and it's not my responsibility to turn this around. I will respect Artell's right to make different calls from me and I hope he proves me wrong.

Quoted from IlkleyMariner

Not good enough for a team 4th bottom of English fourth tier.

Plays tonight in front of about 50,000 at Rangers.

Is it a case of how strong GTFC and league 4 are in England or how crap Scottish Premiership is?

It's Ross County, it's not like he signed for Celtic, Rangers or Hearts. They still operate like a non league team and have a ground capacity of 6500. I'm not sure playing his football in Dingwall is a massive step up.

Good luck to him and I hope he succeeds wherever he plays, I was sorry to see him leave but he’s gone hope he enjoyed playing for town.

Just seen the goals and it looked like he switched off for one of them?

Quoted from IlkleyMariner

Not good enough for a team 4th bottom of English fourth tier.

Plays tonight in front of about 50,000 at Rangers.

Is it a case of how strong GTFC and league 4 are in England or how crap Scottish Premiership is?

Very much the latter!

cold up there. Good Luck to him, I was a fan of his, and hope he has a good career

Just seen the goals on SSN. Looked like he was playing as a left-sided centre back.

I’ve often felt his best performances for us, post non-league, were on the right of a three.

Not sure if going to Ross County is a backwards step or a sidewards step. My money would be, apart from the annual games vs Celtic and Rangers that Grimsby is a) a bigger club and it may have been better for him to b) stay in the English league system. The SPL is the pits.

Still, we wish him well....wouldn't fancy being in the 2nd division of Scottish football....

Quoted from StacyColdicotts_hairline

Not sure if going to Ross County is a backwards step or a sidewards step. My money would be, apart from the annual games vs Celtic and Rangers that Grimsby is a) a bigger club and it may have been better for him to b) stay in the English league system. The SPL is the pits.

Still, we wish him well....wouldn't fancy being in the 2nd division of Scottish football....

It’s a tough league to put into a bucket. If you use attendances as a barometer, Celtic and Rangers are Premier League sized clubs, Hearts, Hibs and Aberdeen are lower Championship / upper League One sized, and then everyone else land somewhere between League Two and the National League.

It’s a strange league really, when you look at it like that. I think it’s a decent move for Efete personally; the likes of Craig Clay and Richard Tait did alright out of their respective moves to Motherwell. If Ross County can stay in the SPL, and it looks like they’ll have to win a relegation play-off to do so, I’d say it’s preferable to dropping into the National League, which was presumably his only other likely destination.

As a comparison, Chelsea let a certain  Kevin de Bruyne go, think he’s done ok since.Even the big boys don’t always get it right.

Quoted from Gaffer58

As a comparison, Chelsea let a certain  Kevin de Bruyne go, think he’s done ok since.Even the big boys don’t always get it right.

And Salah.

Quoted from Poojah

It’s a tough league to put into a bucket. If you use attendances as a barometer, Celtic and Rangers are Premier League sized clubs, Hearts, Hibs and Aberdeen are lower Championship / upper League One sized, and then everyone else land somewhere between League Two and the National League.

It’s a strange league really, when you look at it like that. I think it’s a decent move for Efete personally; the likes of Craig Clay and Richard Tait did alright out of their respective moves to Motherwell. If Ross County can stay in the SPL, and it looks like they’ll have to win a relegation play-off to do so, I’d say it’s preferable to dropping into the National League, which was presumably his only other likely destination.

That’s harsh to the Old Firm - they wouldn’t just be Premier League sized clubs, they’d be Top 6, size-wise. They would dwarf clubs like Brighton, Brentford, Palace, Bournemouth…..a big list, in fact.

I heard Kieran Maguire say the other day that in the year before the Prem was established, Man United had the highest income of all the British clubs - second was Glasgow Rangers.

Quoted from Heisenberg

That’s harsh to the Old Firm - they wouldn’t just be Premier League sized clubs, they’d be Top 6, size-wise. They would dwarf clubs like Brighton, Brentford, Palace, Bournemouth…..a big list, in fact.

I heard Kieran Maguire say the other day that in the year before the Prem was established, Man United had the highest income of all the British clubs - second was Glasgow Rangers.

I was just going off attendances. Celtic and Rangers would currently rank 5th and 8th respectively in the Premier League, though there’s an argument their crowds could be bigger if they had the capacity. You could probably level that at a handful of other top flight clubs too, mind.

All that said, wasn’t doubting that they’re big clubs. Of course they are.

Quoted from Poojah

I was just going off attendances. Celtic and Rangers would currently rank 5th and 8th respectively in the Premier League, though there’s an argument their crowds could be bigger if they had the capacity. You could probably level that at a handful of other top flight clubs too, mind.

All that said, wasn’t doubting that they’re big clubs. Of course they are.

Yeah, I know that, Poojah, you know your football.

Celtic and Rangers would be incredible additions to the EPL, but there’s no way it’d get ratified. They’ll perpetually rot in the SPL, I’m afraid.

Quoted from Heisenberg

Yeah, I know that, Poojah, you know your football.

Celtic and Rangers would be incredible additions to the EPL, but there’s no way it’d get ratified. They’ll perpetually rot in the SPL, I’m afraid.

Hope so. Well Celtic at least

Quoted from Heisenberg

Yeah, I know that, Poojah, you know your football.

Celtic and Rangers would be incredible additions to the EPL, but there’s no way it’d get ratified. They’ll perpetually rot in the SPL, I’m afraid.

And of course it would be much tougher for either of them to qualify for the champions league from the English prem.

Quoted from IlkleyMariner

Hope so. Well Celtic at least

I’m with you on that one, 100%.

Quoted from Heisenberg

Yeah, I know that, Poojah, you know your football.

Celtic and Rangers would be incredible additions to the EPL, but there’s no way it’d get ratified. They’ll perpetually rot in the SPL, I’m afraid.

I seem to recall there were tentative plans to introduce them to the English league system in the late 90s / early noughties. The proposal was to let them start in the second tier, with the two smallest clubs at that level at the time being paid off to accept a relegation in order to accommodate them. At that moment in time, that would have been us and Crewe.

I can only find obscure references to this, but I’m reasonably confident that was the plan. I don’t think it ever got close to getting off the ground, and I don’t think it ever will.

Quoted from Poojah

I seem to recall there were tentative plans to introduce them to the English league system in the late 90s / early noughties. The proposal was to let them start in the second tier, with the two smallest clubs at that level at the time being paid off to accept a relegation in order to accommodate them. At that moment in time, that would have been us and Crewe.

I can only find obscure references to this, but I’m reasonably confident that was the plan. I don’t think it ever got close to getting off the ground, and I don’t think it ever will.

That’s fascinating - I’m a bit older than you and I don’t remember that link to us at all!

Just picked up on this thread ,so back to Michee last night! Watched the 2nd half Ross C v Rangers and he was unrecognisable.. so composed and knew his role.  Always knew he had something about him…strength, pace going forward etc but clearly with us had those moments when he froze and lost the plot. He played left side of a back 3 and left CB when they went to a 4 and I swear he was organising the back line at times. He’s in front of a full house at Ibrox playing for a Dog and Duck team but looked great.
We have to ask seriously ourselves ….is it the toxic  atmosphere at BP that’s stopping these guys playing to their potential?

Quoted from Nantwichmariner

Just picked up on this thread ,so back to Michee last night! Watched the 2nd half Ross C v Rangers and he was unrecognisable.. so composed and knew his role.  Always knew he had something about him…strength, pace going forward etc but clearly with us had those moments when he froze and lost the plot. He played left side of a back 3 and left CB when they went to a 4 and I swear he was organising the back line at times. He’s in front of a full house at Ibrox playing for a Dog and Duck team but looked great.
We have to ask seriously ourselves ….is it the toxic  atmosphere at BP that’s stopping these guys playing to their potential?

Good post.

You tend to hear things like "he's a professional footballer - he should be able to handle it'.

I don't buy that at all. Whatever job you do, do you think being told, every other time you turn up for work, that you're the worst
plumber/teacher/accountant/shelf-stacker/bus driver/whatever in the world will enhance your work performance?
And the abuse from football "fans"/"supporters" can be worse than that.

Not only the players - some of the big-mouth small-brain abuse from the Main Stand directed at the manager is way out-of-order.

I wouldn't last long if appointed Town manager - I'd be "doing a Cantona". (as a younger man, not now at my age)

We are not 'toxic' fans any more than any other club.

We just keep seeing the same under performing squads year on year; manager after manager, and that turns to anger and frustration.

As SP said yesterday, it's down to the players to get the fans on board and he doesn't mind a bit of needle from the fans.

Quoted from 137

Good post.

You tend to hear things like "he's a professional footballer - he should be able to handle it'.

I don't buy that at all. Whatever job you do, do you think being told, every other time you turn up for work, that you're the worst
plumber/teacher/accountant/shelf-stacker/bus driver/whatever in the world will enhance your work performance?
And the abuse from football "fans"/"supporters" can be worse than that.

Not only the players - some of the big-mouth small-brain abuse from the Main Stand directed at the manager is way out-of-order.

I wouldn't last long if appointed Town manager - I'd be "doing a Cantona". (as a younger man, not now at my age)

No you couldn't be a manager as this sort of thing happens at every ground when things aren't going well. Conversely you are a hero when things are going well so it's swings and roundabouts.

Never fails to amaze me, this board.

The lad comes on as a sub in a home defeat in front of less than 3k fans - probably about right. A week later he’s playing in a massive stadium through sheer fluke and suddenly he’s Franco Baresi and WE’RE to blame for this not being discovered earlier.

Unreal.

Quoted from ska face

Never fails to amaze me, this board.

The lad comes on as a sub in a home defeat in front of less than 3k fans - probably about right. A week later he’s playing in a massive stadium through sheer fluke and suddenly he’s Franco Baresi and WE’RE to blame for this not being discovered earlier.

Unreal.

Aye he was probably standing out in that side because its so dire, Scottish football is in the doldrums. He is a player who never played above NLN level before us, so the fan base can hardly be blamed for holding him back - he's been on an upward trajectory all of his time with us!

Quoted from toontown

Aye he was probably standing out in that side because its so dire, Scottish football is in the doldrums. He is a player who never played above NLN level before us, so the fan base can hardly be blamed for holding him back - he's been on an upward trajectory all of his time with us!

Not to split hairs but he was already playing in the National League for Wealdstone the season before we signed him.

Quoted from 137

Good post.

You tend to hear things like "he's a professional footballer - he should be able to handle it'.

I don't buy that at all. Whatever job you do, do you think being told, every other time you turn up for work, that you're the worst
plumber/teacher/accountant/shelf-stacker/bus driver/whatever in the world will enhance your work performance?
And the abuse from football "fans"/"supporters" can be worse than that.

Not only the players - some of the big-mouth small-brain abuse from the Main Stand directed at the manager is way out-of-order.

I wouldn't last long if appointed Town manager - I'd be "doing a Cantona". (as a younger man, not now at my age)

It certainly has an affect.  I would say that I'm quite thick skinned but my current work place never acknowledges any good work but constantly wants to berate us for any single mistake. I work more hours and during those hours harder then others and eventually, you think what's the point?  It's a subconscious decision at times. Can't see it getting better , so the only way is out.  Ross County here I come.

Going to put yourself in the shop window more easily in the SPL than NL, plus, if they pick the right manager theres a decent chance of European footie

He's always been pretty decent defensively, but wasn't up to much going forward most of the time, got caught out positionally against some wingers and his passing was never the best. Playing in a back three is probably just about the best position for him as his pace and aerial strength ought to benefit him in that role, without him being exposed out wide too often.

We never really played with a back three in recent seasons, that I can remember (not saying much, these days). He's no world-beater, but an honest professional so good to see him doing well so far.

Quoted from Mayaman

It certainly has an affect.  I would say that I'm quite thick skinned but my current work place never acknowledges any good work but constantly wants to berate us for any single mistake. I work more hours and during those hours harder then others and eventually, you think what's the point?  It's a subconscious decision at times. Can't see it getting better , so the only way is out.  Ross County here I come.

Oops I'm 'one of those others'

Spending  far too much time on The Fishy while Nigel picks up the slack atm.

Quoted from ska face

Never fails to amaze me, this board.

The lad comes on as a sub in a home defeat in front of less than 3k fans - probably about right. A week later he’s playing in a massive stadium through sheer fluke and suddenly he’s Franco Baresi and WE’RE to blame for this not being discovered earlier.

Unreal.

Baresi wasn’t as quick as Michee

In my opinion, Michee was a competent L2 fullback displaced by a less competent one. Because we had signed Mullarkey, the managers felt compelled to play him.

In my opinion, this was not on merit, neither perfect but I know who I preferred utm

Quoted from HerveJosse

Baresi wasn’t as quick as Michee

But Michee didn't know what to do with his speed.

Quoted from rancido

But Michee didn't know what to do with his speed.

If Michee could have improved his final ball, just a bit, and run forward more than he did, just a bit, he'd be one of our best players.

Quoted from ginnywings

We are not 'toxic' fans any more than any other club.

We just keep seeing the same under performing squads year on year; manager after manager, and that turns to anger and frustration.

As SP said yesterday, it's down to the players to get the fans on board and he doesn't mind a bit of needle from the fans.

SP was blowing smoke up the fans bottom. After the comment DA said which was carefully worded, there was a full blown thread about it. SP knows how sensitive fans are about a perceived slight. To change the culture, you've got to accept that things need to improve. To distance yourself from those toxic elements, or you're enabling, and supporting it.

You defend by saying we're no worse than other fans, and ultimately, there is always someone worse, so that sort of statement justifies even the worst of behaviour.

There is a reason teams often have better home form, it's because it's easier to recover and build yourself up with support than being in a hostile environment. Sometimes the hostile environment becomes home games, and players end up looking a shell of themselves.

You may think players should have a thick skin, but they often don't. Even Wayne Rooney commented on drinking due to the pressure and if top players have that issue, what do you think of players that don't have the hype? If you saw some 40 year old berating a 23 year old working in a shop, you'd probably be shocked, annoyed and angry. However, in football, there is some acceptance of the abuse. I'm sure it feels satisfying to berate players or feels comforting and safe to stay quiet when others do, but it takes bigger balls to stand up and cheer on a struggling player low on confidence when they do something good.

Do you have the balls to do that? Or are testicles reserved for professional footballers?

Quoted from AncientExiledMariner

SP was blowing smoke up the fans bottom. After the comment DA said which was carefully worded, there was a full blown thread about it. SP knows how sensitive fans are about a perceived slight. To change the culture, you've got to accept that things need to improve. To distance yourself from those toxic elements, or you're enabling, and supporting it.

You defend by saying we're no worse than other fans, and ultimately, there is always someone worse, so that sort of statement justifies even the worst of behaviour.

There is a reason teams often have better home form, it's because it's easier to recover and build yourself up with support than being in a hostile environment. Sometimes the hostile environment becomes home games, and players end up looking a shell of themselves.

You may think players should have a thick skin, but they often don't. Even Wayne Rooney commented on drinking due to the pressure and if top players have that issue, what do you think of players that don't have the hype? If you saw some 40 year old berating a 23 year old working in a shop, you'd probably be shocked, annoyed and angry. However, in football, there is some acceptance of the abuse. I'm sure it feels satisfying to berate players or feels comforting and safe to stay quiet when others do, but it takes bigger balls to stand up and cheer on a struggling player low on confidence when they do something good.

Do you have the balls to do that? Or are testicles reserved for professional footballers?

Chill out!

I'm not supporting or defending anything, just pointing out that all footy fans are basically the same, and if you think they are not, then fine, carry on with that belief.

I personally have never, and will never berate any player or manager at the ground, as it's not the way I am, but will have a pop on here now and again.

Idk we’ve got some real bellends in our fan base

Its been referred to on here before, away at Halifax few years back under Hursty ive never been more ashamed to be part of a crowd. The abuse that man got was absolutely disgusting

Quoted from ginnywings

Chill out!

I'm not supporting or defending anything, just pointing out that all footy fans are basically the same, and if you think they are not, then fine, carry on with that belief.

I personally have never, and will never berate any player or manager at the ground, as it's not the way I am, but will have a pop on here now and again.

Re-read your post again. You're clearly defending those taking out on the players as they're "frustrated" from their "anger".

Does sounds like you meekly sit on your hands when players get excrement and won't stand up and encourage those players. What a retired coach says and a young lad of 24 feel are 2 different things.

I'm very chill, but I'm going to call you out when you defend toxicity. As much as you'd prefer to change the topic and pretend it didn't happen.

Quoted from AncientExiledMariner

Re-read your post again. You're clearly defending those taking out on the players as they're "frustrated" from their "anger".

Does sounds like you meekly sit on your hands when players get excrement and won't stand up and encourage those players. What a retired coach says and a young lad of 24 feel are 2 different things.

I'm very chill, but I'm going to call you out when you defend toxicity. As much as you'd prefer to change the topic and pretend it didn't happen.

Righto!

That's me told.

Quoted from AncientExiledMariner

Re-read your post again. You're clearly defending those taking out on the players as they're "frustrated" from their "anger".

Does sounds like you meekly sit on your hands when players get excrement and won't stand up and encourage those players. What a retired coach says and a young lad of 24 feel are 2 different things.

I'm very chill, but I'm going to call you out when you defend toxicity. As much as you'd prefer to change the topic and pretend it didn't happen.

They were doing the same thing when we were good though some . Just pay their money and think it gives them the right to say whatever they want - got a few near me who have just abused players since the 90's even when we were good they are the same one's who moan when it's in the air yet will moan when we try and play it on the floor .

Not saying it's right or helps but I can't see that it(they) will ever change. I think when things are going badly it's amplified maybe when irregular moaners get frustrated aswell .

Hopefully tomorrow can be a bit more of a positive atmosphere as I know some regulars are already sharpening the knives for Artell and to give the players some at the first sign of problems .

I honestly find that the fans at BP spend more of their time abusing the referee and linesman when things are going badly rather than the actual players. Certainly do in the Findus, so think the toxic atmosphere towards the players is sometimes exaggerated.

Quoted from ginnywings

Righto!

That's me told.

LOL

Learnt your lesson there!

Quoted from IlkleyMariner

Not good enough for a team 4th bottom of English fourth tier.

Plays tonight in front of about 50,000 at Rangers.

Is it a case of how strong GTFC and league 4 are in England or how crap Scottish Premiership is?

Dont watch Grimsby that much now due to other hobbies/financial implications eg watching Grimsby play is expensive for what its worth  but Efete impressed me when I saw him around two years back. Had a presence about him which I liked . I would of kept him based on that performance.