?

I honestly think our for would of been better sticking with Hurst. Especially if he'd of had January to try and bring some new players in. Hurst often added some good signings and had strong 2nd half's of the  seasons. Totally irrelevant now I guess.

Beginning to resemble Bignot without the entertainment value.

If Stockwood is looking at the data closely as he said he was doing with Hurst, I wonder what thst data is telling him right now 🤔

Too many overlapping choices really. Should be in regardless/out now/out after next game

As I listened to Radio Humberside tonight, the Artell interview felt later than usual and I started to think the contractual post-match interview might have been with Stockwood.

I think most of us expected to lose today, but it's the manner of it. A couple of concerning things during the game unrelated to the goals conceded too: he didn't take the opportunity to have a huddle during an injury break and he absolutely hammered Cartwright for going long when the short options were poor and him going short had not long resulted in us conceding. He was the boards choice, but I think they are going to need to admit they got it wrong very soon as the alternative is relegation.

I was no Hurst fanatic, but I appreciated his ethos, however much I disagreed. I did not think he was the man to push us on, but I also do not think we would be in this position if Hurst was the manager.

Artell for me is another Bignot chancer, says some decent words in an interview, can operate a powerpoint presentation, but doesn't actually understand footballers to get a result.

I've said it once, i'll say it thrice, my disappointment in the board to not kick on with this club is immeasurable. They were given the goose that lays the golden egg and they've absolutely shafted it.

Cant see him doing anything different to what he is doing so its out for me

Current as of todays result for League Two games.

The truth is he inherited a team of underperforming players (bar one or two).

DA isnt a magician or a miracle worker and he needs time to get these underperforming performing.

It wouldnt have mattered who had taken over, they would still have had crap players to work with

Quoted from Nelly GTFC

Current as of todays result for League Two games.

A minus 4 point tally then.

Lol. 6 days ago, I said this:

"Don't be sensible.

We'll go from having a competent manager who fixed our weaknesses to an absolute disaster and BSer who only got the job because he blew smoke up the arses of the Guardian writing, champagne socialists only obsessed about B corp status and not keeping us in the football league."

https://forum.thefishy.co.uk/Blah.pl?m-1707024836//id-1708867#id1708867

This place is absolutely hilarious at times. Oh, and Artell said something about the fans, so knives are out. We have some of the best fans in the world. "intercourse off, Tom Newey." "You're a useless piece of excrement Tom Newey". We've always supported our players and built them up ;).

We have 15 games left, so we give him 2 more games and it's still bad, so we bin him. That's 13 games left but it took JS & AP 4 weeks after Hurst's sacking to install DA. If they took 4 weeks again then That would leave 9 games to save us before the season ends.

JS did say that they had started looking for a new manager because of Hurst's statistics, well I hope they have already seen what DA has produced. The theory of his style sounds attractive if you have the players to do it. I think it was Neil Warnock quoted this week as saying you play to your player's strengths, not what you want them to do. Surely this is something DA should have listened to.

I would assume that JS & AP still have something of a list somewhere of potential managers when they appointed DA, so if they intend to get rid they had better do it quickly otherwise we are heading into a very deep relegation battle without the staff to carry us through.

So to answer your question JS & AP have to eat humble pie, admit they got it wrong big time, pay off DA and get a competent manager in PDQ.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Beginning to resemble Bignot without the entertainment value.

Amuses me when I keep seeing Bignot’s name thrown in. I acknowledge that his managerial career since he left town has been non-descript and a failure but despite the Donny home performance we never had anything like the failures we’ve had at BP under other Managers. As for away games scoring 3 goals at Carlisle when they were top of the league, 3 at Plymouth who got promoted and 3 at Blackpool who also got promoted and nine points. Christ I’d settle for some of that crap management now!!

I genuinely thought after the Crewe game that a. we’d be safe and b. probably top half. We’d played well at MK and Oxford and there was a real vibrancy about our football but I can’t fathom out what’s happened since.

Newport away was ok, Salford was almost a gimme as they were as bad as we are now. Apart from that we’ve been garbage aside from the emotion fuelled performance against Notts. We’re predictable and very easy to beat.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Beginning to resemble Bignot without the entertainment value.

Yeah that excrement Bignot won 35% of his League Two games before being sacked.

Quoted from Nelly GTFC

Yeah that excrement Bignot won 35% of his League Two games before being sacked.

How dare he? Didn’t he spend above the Fenty budget?

If its 0 points from the next 2, i think the board have a decision to make.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

How dare he? Didn’t he spend above the Fenty budget?

Not sure, but he certainly had Chris Clements, Jamie Osborne and Sam Jones playing well.

Quoted from Hagrid

If its 0 points from the next 2, i think the board have a decision to make.

I’m sure it’s all a bit emotive tonight, but I think I’d rather have Shaun and Ben in charge to ensure our safety. This guy would happily die on a hill than abandon his ideals.

I said before we sacked Hurst, the new manager would still have the same squad and would still have to work within the constraints we have, in which players are under contract and the quality you need aren't always available mid-January. Paul Hurst would have made changes in that market, Artell did, but ultimately, teams aren't willing to let strong players go in January when strong players aren't available to be replace them.

I also said it'd probably take 2 summer transfer windows (for contracts to run out) for any manager to pick the squad they want, and maybe 3 if you assume they're human and make mistakes. Every top manager has had plenty of intercourse ups.

Our squad had issues under Hurst. It still has issues now, and it needs time. Swapping out the guy giving the tactics still mean most of the same players are going to be going out on that field. We've got to work with what we have, get behind the players and the team. Artell has got some good form out of them at times, and obviously there have been a few disasters. We're 7 points off relegation and just played the top team with far better quality throughout and a larger budget.

If you swap managers out, you never fully hold your players to account. My view is we stick, support our manager, and not chop and take a 3rd managers salary out of the budget.

The way fans want to change stuff immediately, Alex Fergusson wouldn't have made it out of his first season. Twitter brain football fans are loud, but quite detached from reality, but never accountable when their complaining was misplaced. They'll hide that, and pretend they've always had the right position.

Quoted from AncientExiledMariner

Lol. 6 days ago, I said this:

"Don't be sensible.

We'll go from having a competent manager who fixed our weaknesses to an absolute disaster and BSer who only got the job because he blew smoke up the arses of the Guardian writing, champagne socialists only obsessed about B corp status and not keeping us in the football league."

https://forum.thefishy.co.uk/Blah.pl?m-1707024836//id-1708867#id1708867

This place is absolutely hilarious at times. Oh, and Artell said something about the fans, so knives are out. We have some of the best fans in the world. "intercourse off, Tom Newey." "You're a useless piece of excrement Tom Newey". We've always supported our players and built them up ;).

Another Town fan who keeps his head stuck up his bottom.

Town fans are no different to fans of all clubs, I've followed Town all over and heard home fans giving their own manager and players excrement as well as reading other fans forums slagging off their own players.

The players are excrement (baring Rose). Got Hurst sacked and are trying their best to do the same to DA. Hurst couldn't get tune out of them, DA can't either, no one could.

The blame lies with the players.

I think we'll stay up, but it's depressing viewing. Sat 21st, it's flipping league 2.

Stockroom said they were looking at the data for about 4 weeks before sacking Hurst. In that 4 weeks and the time it took to appoint Artell .Adkins ,Robinson ,Cotterell and the cowley were all available .Adjins and Robinson already done their bit .Let's see what the cowley and Cotterill can conjure up .Cos I don't think our guy is improving us

Artell certainly won't be sacked as it will reduce Stockwood's credibility to zero.

I thought Artell would be great for Town judging by some of the football played early doors but the last 2 home games have seen all the good stuff evaporate and the bad stuff get worse.

Who knows what the answer is? None of us know how we have managed to get 4th bottom in February after all the goodwill and relative success of the last couple of seasons but here we are once again.

The only thing is to survive, somehow and regroup next season but everybody sees us (rightly) as perennial strugglers which is humiliating really. Peter Handysides sad passing just reinforced the difference between then and now.

Quoted from Norseman

Stockroom said they were looking at the data for about 4 weeks before sacking Hurst. In that 4 weeks and the time it took to appoint Artell .Adkins ,Robinson ,Cotterell and the cowley were all available .Adjins and Robinson already done their bit .Let's see what the cowley and Cotterill can conjure up .Cos I don't think our guy is improving us

I do think it's odd that we've ended up with this manager who's so poor at communicating, when I'm sure the owners would've had that as a requirement. He doesn't compose himself well and can't instil a conviction. The owners have been done here, in my opinion and as it stands, I'm not convinced by them either.

Quoted from Norseman

Stockroom said they were looking at the data for about 4 weeks before sacking Hurst. In that 4 weeks and the time it took to appoint Artell .Adkins ,Robinson ,Cotterell and the cowley were all available .Adjins and Robinson already done their bit .Let's see what the cowley and Cotterill can conjure up .Cos I don't think our guy is improving us

Adkins wasn’t available he was already working at Tranmere. Not sure how you can say that about Cotterell who’s turned us down at least one in the past, though it was a long time ago.

Artell won’t get sacked as JS & AP won’t have a successor lined up as I suspect they didn’t believe they needed one.

The owners by their own admission “aren’t football people” I wonder how many experts in the game told them Artell was the man to take us forward without actually knowing how sh1t our players are.

I’d rather have Shaun and I suspect the squad would too. I don’t know what he’s trying to do, and he talks cobblers, at far too great length. Adopting this current strategy/style of play, or more specifically, how he’s doing it is lunacy and it’s palpably failing.
If the crowd turn against him and create a hostile atmosphere at home - checkout the regular booing throughout today’s game - we will get even worse and the whole show will be unpleasant for everyone involved.
In my opinion, we are not in a position to be doing what DA is trying to do right now. Not when we can’t defend. A team that can’t defend that decides to play the way he wants to is asking to get canned out of division 4. We’ve got this income, this support, this ownership and culture….all excellent, and this sh1t show on the pitch. We really can’t have it. If it gets worse (or stays the same) in the next 3/4 games, then I dread to think what the atmosphere around the club will be.
It’s infuriating and saddening this really. Shouldn’t be happening.
I just can’t buy into Artell.

Quoted from Ashby mariner

I honestly think our for would of been better sticking with Hurst. Especially if he'd of had January to try and bring some new players in. Hurst often added some good signings and had strong 2nd half's of the  seasons. Totally irrelevant now I guess.

Yep. Said this at the time. Also see those who wanted hurst out are now hounding Artell. Fúck to all of it. I’m so fed up with it all.

Quoted from arryarryarry

Another Town fan who keeps his head stuck up his bottom.

Town fans are no different to fans of all clubs, I've followed Town all over and heard home fans giving their own manager and players excrement as well as reading other fans forums slagging off their own players.

"I see toxicity elsewhere, so toxicity is fine".

Yeah, no. You talk about town fans having their head up their bottom. Ironic really.

Ultimately, these players aren't over 30, some of them are early 20s, some from youth football, and getting abuse from folks doesn't help them build a confidence. There is a reason teams get more points at home that away. Same goals, same grass, same ball, just you have less people cheering you on and when you intercourse up, people will often get behind you and you can forget about it and move on. Of course, when home become a cauldron for your own players to boil in, it doesn't help. You might things it's fine for old man to yell at young boys, and maybe you need that in your life, but in no ways is it useful or constructive.

I wasn’t overwhelmed by the appointment, I’d have gone all out for the Cowleys,  but felt the owners must have done a lot more due diligence than JF ever did and trusted them.
I think they’ve been sold a pup.
There’s just something about Artell that comes across as arrogant , the dismissive  little snorts and grunts in interviews at questions he doesn’t like before he composes himself for an answer . He seems a bit like Jolley in his belief in his own intellectual superiority.
There’s nothing wrong with wanting to play like he does, but you have set up the best system that suits the players you’ve got until you get there.
I’m not one to usually panic and call for a managers head but this has disaster written all over it. He’s made a bad squad and a bad team even worse.
His refusal to recognise this is the most worrying thing.
For me it’s an out. Get someone in who recognises our defensive problems and addresses them . Even if it’s a short term appointment until the end of the season . We just need to shut up shop and stay up and take it from there.

Quoted from 140381

Yep. Said this at the time. Also see those who wanted hurst out are now hounding Artell. Fúck to all of it. I’m so fed up with it all.

Not strictly true. I thought getting rid of Hurst was a mistake and said so at the time. I also said Artell was a huge mistake to much derision. Where are the likes of Ska Face, who haven’t got much to say as we continue to drop like a stone.

Quoted from davmariner

Not strictly true. I thought getting rid of Hurst was a mistake and said so at the time. I also said Artell was a huge mistake to much derision. Where are the likes of Ska Face, who haven’t got much to say as we continue to drop like a stone.

Not sure I understand why you would be cross with Ska Face. What is it he’s supposed to have/have not said or done? I don’t have him near the top of my list of people I blame for this debacle.

Hurst would of taken us down his stats are terrible his squad he assembled is one of the worst i have seen.
Artell is floundering and looks like a man waiting for the sack he seems to have lost interest.
Bring Shaun and Ben back until the end of the season.

Quoted from Yoda

Hurst would of taken us down his stats are terrible his squad he assembled is one of the worst i have seen.
Artell is floundering and looks like a man waiting for the sack he seems to have lost interest.
Bring Shaun and Ben back until the end of the season.

Where were you saying this before Artell was appointed?

Very easy to female dog at decisions, very hard to make those calls at the right times.

i was not overwhelmed when Artell was appointed but he was probably the only option.
The Cowleys where not going to come here being southern based.

Square pegs in round holes … it’s that bloody simple what’s going wrong .

Quoted from WayneBurnettsJockstrap

The truth is he inherited a team of underperforming players (bar one or two).

DA isnt a magician or a miracle worker and he needs time to get these underperforming performing.

It wouldnt have mattered who had taken over, they would still have had crap players to work with

True but you play to the players strengths, make them feel comfortable and don’t try to impose a style of play that quite obviously doesn’t work/creates too much pressure on an already leaky defence. That’s on the manager.

I think the criteria Stockwood and Pettit set probably meant Artell was the best available manager.

Remember Stockwood said in an interview available to us all to see that he is looking for a manager who wants to play the "Grimsby way"  and he defined that as a possession based game. Some managers may well have said to him "I can't do that with the current squad" and Stockwood and pettit may have decided those candidates were out of the running.

Then you have the fact that any new manager were required to work with the current coaching set up and there was no scope to bring in their own men, again this was stated publicly at the fans forum, now I think we all agree that most managers out there would prefer the chance to bring in their own men on the coaching team, so that may have ruled out several candidates

Sh1t players, sh1t team, bullsh1t manager, just like the last 20 years.

How the fook did we end up with a rookie goalkeeper, and a midfield that is incapable of even controlling and passing a football. Clifton and Holahan are not good enough, and the option off the bench is Andrews, who has about 20 league games under his belt.

No surprise that we are out of our depth because again we don't ever learn.

All the best players from last season are gone, and haven't been replaced. We are an embarrassment and can't string together three passes without losing the ball. Basic errors all over the pitch in every game.

Quoted from Davec

I think the criteria Stockwood and Pettit set probably meant Artell was the best available manager.

Remember Stockwood said in an interview available to us all to see that he is looking for a manager who wants to play the "Grimsby way"  and he defined that as a possession based game. Some managers may well have said to him "I can't do that with the current squad" and Stockwood and pettit may have decided those candidates were out of the running.

Then you have the fact that any new manager were required to work with the current coaching set up and there was no scope to bring in their own men, again this was stated publicly at the fans forum, now I think we all agree that most managers out there would prefer the chance to bring in their own men on the coaching team, so that may have ruled out several candidates

Artell said in an early interview that he was given the opportunity to bring one of his own coaches in but he declined to do that.

At the fans forum Jason said Ben & Shaun would be retained but wasn’t specific about in what capacity.

In terms of the question in or out other than Ben & Shaun I’m not sure what the alternative would look like. There's 16 games left, the players are not good enough & their heads look to have already gone so new ideas might not land with them as they might not have the band width for more change.

This time next week we could be a point off the relegation zone, if that happens he should go. What I also believe is that if we get relegated again despite all the good work they’ve done the owners will need to take accountability for something that will regress the club once again.

It’s obvious that  Stockwood went for the cheap option! I didn’t realise Adkin’s was available, he was the man with the credentials to motivate and instil a working system to play too.
Like many on here I did initially get caught up with the Stockwood  hype. I thought well.. he’s super rich and he’s a town fan, articulate and intelligent, so he’s well aware there is no money to be made, so he must be here for the love of the club and knows he will need to shell out big for any success.

I started to realise early on that he wasn’t going to be our Jack Haywood, John Hall or Jack Walker there was to be no big investment, the loans to be paid back would come from club revenue, any hopes of a new stadium quickly disappeared, and I think the playing budget in the conference was only half decent because of the parachute payment. No this is all about status for him, the local boy done good, owner of a once proud historic football club. He thought he could run it like his business models and turn around a poor struggling club, but the reality is the club is costing him now which goes against the grain for any champagne socialist, which is why we are still and will continue to be a poor struggling club.

Quoted from Humbercod

It’s obvious that  Stockwood went for the cheap option! I didn’t realise Adkin’s was available, he was the man with the credentials to motivate and instil a working system to play too.
Like many on here I did initially get caught up with the Stockwood  hype. I thought well.. he’s super rich and he’s a town fan, articulate and intelligent, so he’s well aware there is no money to be made, so he must be here for the love of the club and knows he will need to shell out big for any success.

I started to realise early on that he wasn’t going to be our Jack Haywood, John Hall or Jack Walker there was to be no big investment, the loans to be paid back would come from club revenue, any hopes of a new stadium quickly disappeared, and I think the playing budget in the conference was only half decent because of the parachute payment. No this is all about status for him, the local boy done good, owner of a once proud historic football club. He thought he could run it like his business models and turn around a poor struggling club, but the reality is the club is costing him now which goes against the grain for any champagne socialist, which is why we are still and will continue to be a poor struggling club.

I made the point on another post/thread Adkins wasn’t available he was already working at Tranmere a club he’s heavily invested in.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

I made the point on another post/thread Adkins wasn’t available he was already working at Tranmere a club he’s heavily invested in.

Fair point! It would be interesting to find out who would have been realistically available with some ambition.

Quoted from Humbercod

It’s obvious that  Stockwood went for the cheap option! I didn’t realise Adkin’s was available, he was the man with the credentials to motivate and instil a working system to play too.
Like many on here I did initially get caught up with the Stockwood  hype. I thought well.. he’s super rich and he’s a town fan, articulate and intelligent, so he’s well aware there is no money to be made, so he must be here for the love of the club and knows he will need to shell out big for any success.

I started to realise early on that he wasn’t going to be our Jack Haywood, John Hall or Jack Walker there was to be no big investment, the loans to be paid back would come from club revenue, any hopes of a new stadium quickly disappeared, and I think the playing budget in the conference was only half decent because of the parachute payment. No this is all about status for him, the local boy done good, owner of a once proud historic football club. He thought he could run it like his business models and turn around a poor struggling club, but the reality is the club is costing him now which goes against the grain for any champagne socialist, which is why we are still and will continue to be a poor struggling club.

I fear there may be more truth to this than many care to admit

Just stop trying to play from the back this season.

Let's make our league status secure them bring in players who can play that way in the summer.

There are not many fans that could stomach another season or six back in the conference.

We always make the wrong decisions I thought it would be different under Jason and Andrew but no it's no different at all.

The main problem is, and would still be if we got yet another Manager in, that the players are underperforming. They are supposedly good enough to have a Professional contract, but game after game they are proving that they are incapable of even the most basic of skills. It's quite unbelievable how many times we lose the ball when attempting a short pass. I burst out laughing a few games back. The ball had been passed to A*****s. He had two players to his left about 10 yards apart, both in space and asking for the ball, and he managed to overhit the pass right between them both, perfectly bisecting the angle, and out for a throw in. This is the sort of simple excrement that is drilled into kids until they can do it with their eyes closed. Actually, that's probably the reason the useless fooker kicked it out.

The second problem is the Coaching team. They were part of the backroom team that had failed to do their jobs, and got us in the position where the owners felt they needed to lose PH and CD, and yet there they still are, still underachieving, and we are in an even worse position now. That needs to change, and soon.

I think at this low ebb, we could get a Premiership manager in, and he wouldn't be able to get a reaction from the players.

All we can hope for this season is we survive relegation, and it would be nice to see Danny Rose and/or Abo Eisa score 15 goals or more

Quoted from WayneBurnettsJockstrap

The main problem is, and would still be if we got yet another Manager in, that the players are underperforming. They are supposedly good enough to have a Professional contract, but game after game they are proving that they are incapable of even the most basic of skills. It's quite unbelievable how many times we lose the ball when attempting a short pass. I burst out laughing a few games back. The ball had been passed to A*****s. He had two players to his left about 10 yards apart, both in space and asking for the ball, and he managed to overhit the pass right between them both, perfectly bisecting the angle, and out for a throw in. This is the sort of simple excrement that is drilled into kids until they can do it with their eyes closed. Actually, that's probably the reason the useless fooker kicked it out.

The second problem is the Coaching team. They were part of the backroom team that had failed to do their jobs, and got us in the position where the owners felt they needed to lose PH and CD, and yet there they still are, still underachieving, and we are in an even worse position now. That needs to change, and soon.

I think at this low ebb, we could get a Premiership manager in, and he wouldn't be able to get a reaction from the players.

All we can hope for this season is we survive relegation, and it would be nice to see Danny Rose and/or Abo Eisa score 15 goals or more

I agree with most of this but think it might be a bit hard on Shaun & Ben. Shaun was scouting in the main when PH was here & if the coaching was so poor Ben would only 33% of the problem as PH & CD where active coaches, with the outfield players at any rate.

Oddly enough this season unlike many in recent years we have scored a few goals so it’s beyond me why Artell has come in and not fixed the root cause of the issue - our defence

This squad is poor so it needed evolution not revolution 🙄

Quoted from WayneBurnettsJockstrap

The truth is he inherited a team of underperforming players (bar one or two).

DA isnt a magician or a miracle worker and he needs time to get these underperforming performing.

It wouldnt have mattered who had taken over, they would still have had crap players to work with

Then play a way to get results another bull💩 excuse after excuse win games stop talking 💩 oh  and we got battered by Walsall it was a 6-1 game behind 🤡

Quoted from Humbercod

It’s obvious that  Stockwood went for the cheap option! I didn’t realise Adkin’s was available, he was the man with the credentials to motivate and instil a working system to play too.
Like many on here I did initially get caught up with the Stockwood  hype. I thought well.. he’s super rich and he’s a town fan, articulate and intelligent, so he’s well aware there is no money to be made, so he must be here for the love of the club and knows he will need to shell out big for any success.

I started to realise early on that he wasn’t going to be our Jack Haywood, John Hall or Jack Walker there was to be no big investment, the loans to be paid back would come from club revenue, any hopes of a new stadium quickly disappeared, and I think the playing budget in the conference was only half decent because of the parachute payment. No this is all about status for him, the local boy done good, owner of a once proud historic football club. He thought he could run it like his business models and turn around a poor struggling club, but the reality is the club is costing him now which goes against the grain for any champagne socialist, which is why we are still and will continue to be a poor struggling club.

On what do you base your statement " cheap option "? Do you know what we are paying DA and what the owners were prepared to pay? It's these cheap throwaway statements that get repeated until people start to believe that they are facts as opposed to conjecture.

Quoted from rancido

On what do you base your statement " cheap option "? Do you know what we are paying DA and what the owners were prepared to pay? It's these cheap throwaway statements that get repeated until people start to believe that they are facts as opposed to conjecture.

Yeah Adkins wasn't even available and I doubt Artell was especially cheap, he had enough money or irons in the fire to turn down the standard liege (?) coaching role which would have paid very well.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Artell certainly won't be sacked as it will reduce Stockwood's credibility to zero.

I thought Artell would be great for Town judging by some of the football played early doors but the last 2 home games have seen all the good stuff evaporate and the bad stuff get worse.

Who knows what the answer is? None of us know how we have managed to get 4th bottom in February after all the goodwill and relative success of the last couple of seasons but here we are once again.

The only thing is to survive, somehow and regroup next season but everybody sees us (rightly) as perennial strugglers which is humiliating really. Peter Handysides sad passing just reinforced the difference between then and now.

H
Think the boat reducing Stockwood credibility to zero,has already sailed.

I would keep Artell for now but we need to start clearing it instead of playing high risk passes in our own third. The defensive problems are obviously not going to be solved this season so we are going to need a few 3-2 and 4-3 wins to ensure survival.

Quoted from AdamHaddock

I would keep Artell for now but we need to start clearing it instead of playing high risk passes in our own third. The defensive problems are obviously not going to be solved this season so we are going to need a few 3-2 and 4-3 wins to ensure survival.

He (Artell) has already said that with him in charge we won't do that, so you can't have that option.

From what I've seen, the Crewe fans don't seem particularly enamored with Artell despite the promotion and league 1 finish. His last relegation season may have something to do with that but seen a few of their fans suggesting that they had a lot of good youth players coming through at the same time as Artell's success who have gone onto higher levels. Don't know how true that is and whether the few opinions I've seen are representative.

Either way, he definitely looks like a manager who needs top lower league footballers to pull of his style, but that's not something we're ever going to have. We need someone more like Wild who can work on a lower budget but team a balanced and hard working team, although that does sound like Hurst.

Quoted from Mariner93er

From what I've seen, the Crewe fans don't seem particularly enamored with Artell despite the promotion and league 1 finish. His last relegation season may have something to do with that but seen a few of their fans suggesting that they had a lot of good youth players coming through at the same time as Artell's success who have gone onto higher levels. Don't know how true that is and whether the few opinions I've seen are representative.

Either way, he definitely looks like a manager who needs top lower league footballers to pull of his style, but that's not something we're ever going to have. We need someone more like Wild who can work on a lower budget but team a balanced and hard working team, although that does sound like Hurst.

1000% this 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Quoted from rancido

On what do you base your statement " cheap option "? Do you know what we are paying DA and what the owners were prepared to pay? It's these cheap throwaway statements that get repeated until people start to believe that they are facts as opposed to conjecture.

I doubt he's paid much less than the going rate for this level, so not the cheap option in that sense. But to not bring in any other staff that he's worked with, particularly an assistant, smells like a cheap option.

The alternative is that nobody who's worked with him before wants to come here, which doesn’t sound good. But JS gave interviews saying they'd still be here when the appointment was made. So definitely sounds like something pushed from higher up.

Quoted from Mariner93er

From what I've seen, the Crewe fans don't seem particularly enamoured with Artell despite the promotion and league 1 finish. His last relegation season may have something to do with that but seen a few of their fans suggesting that they had a lot of good youth players coming through at the same time as Artell's success who have gone onto higher levels. Don't know how true that is and whether the few opinions I've seen are representative.

Either way, he definitely looks like a manager who needs top lower league footballers to pull off his style, but that's not something we're ever going to have. We need someone more like Wild who can work on a lower budget but team a balanced and hardworking team, although that does sound like Hurst.

Completely agree, and at Crewe he inherited a bunch of talented up-and-coming players willing to learn, as proven by their latter successes further up the leagues. Much better than the mish-mash of 'sicknotes' and 'headless chickens' that he is trying and failing to shape into a playing unit here.

Quoted from toontown

He (Artell) has already said that with him in charge we won't do that, so you can't have that option.

Is also the edict from above that we play like that.

Quoted from GrimRob

Is also the edict from above that we play like that.

If it truly is the owners have crossed a real line here that m not sure “custodians” should do.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

If it truly is the owners have crossed a rea line here that m not sure “custodians” should do.

I said the same when Stockwood gave the “Grimsby Way” interview, which alarmed me. They’ve admitted themselves they’re not football men, so why are they insisting on determining the philosophy footballing side of club?

The Grimsby Way balderdash is a rod for the owner’s backs. It’s all well and good wanting to play in a certain way but you need the personnel with the ability to do it. The current lot are too slow in mind, body or both to be able to do it. Dictating that style from boardroom level goes against what they’d said they’d be like as owners (and it’s not the first time either - think back to the badge debacle).

I’m not going to dig at them too much because I think the chronic underinvestment from the previous owner bears the brunt of why we are where we are but flipping hell it’s painful being a Town fan.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

If it truly is the owners have crossed a real line here that m not sure “custodians” should do.

Every time owners appoint a manager they are choosing a certain style of football. I don’t see how this is any different. I’d prefer that to closing your eyes and hoping for some football fortune

Quoted from Vance Warner

Every time owners appoint a manager they are choosing a certain style of football. I don’t see how this is any different. I’d prefer that to closing your eyes and hoping for some football fortune

Aren’t owners just happy with winning football?

Quoted from jamesgtfc

As I listened to Radio Humberside tonight, the Artell interview felt later than usual and I started to think the contractual post-match interview might have been with Stockwood.

I think most of us expected to lose today, but it's the manner of it. A couple of concerning things during the game unrelated to the goals conceded too: he didn't take the opportunity to have a huddle during an injury break and he absolutely hammered Cartwright for going long when the short options were poor and him going short had not long resulted in us conceding. He was the boards choice, but I think they are going to need to admit they got it wrong very soon as the alternative is relegation.

I really hope JS and the rest of the gtfc hierarchy read this .

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Aren’t owners just happy with winning football?

The problem being you then need to change their entire squad every couple of years and pay off a load of deadwood to suit the latest manager’s style. We’ve tried that.

Quoted from AncientExiledMariner

I said before we sacked Hurst, the new manager would still have the same squad and would still have to work within the constraints we have, in which players are under contract and the quality you need aren't always available mid-January. Paul Hurst would have made changes in that market, Artell did, but ultimately, teams aren't willing to let strong players go in January when strong players aren't available to be replace them.

I also said it'd probably take 2 summer transfer windows (for contracts to run out) for any manager to pick the squad they want, and maybe 3 if you assume they're human and make mistakes. Every top manager has had plenty of intercourse ups.

Our squad had issues under Hurst. It still has issues now, and it needs time. Swapping out the guy giving the tactics still mean most of the same players are going to be going out on that field. We've got to work with what we have, get behind the players and the team. Artell has got some good form out of them at times, and obviously there have been a few disasters. We're 7 points off relegation and just played the top team with far better quality throughout and a larger budget.

If you swap managers out, you never fully hold your players to account. My view is we stick, support our manager, and not chop and take a 3rd managers salary out of the budget.

The way fans want to change stuff immediately, Alex Fergusson wouldn't have made it out of his first season. Twitter brain football fans are loud, but quite detached from reality, but never accountable when their complaining was misplaced. They'll hide that, and pretend they've always had the right position.

We’re not stupid, as much as it’s easy for people in the game to say we don’t get it . Football managers are successful for their man management , as much as they want to believe it’s about their technical side . Don’t get the man management right , no amount of technical mumbo jumbo will work .

Quoted from Vance Warner

The problem being you then need to change their entire squad every couple of years and pay off a load of deadwood to suit the latest manager’s style. We’ve tried that.

So it would make sense then to continue with a style which broadly suits the players we have, meanwhile experimenting with a new style which can be safely tried out once 50 points have been achieved. Then when the summer comes around there is a chance to make substantial squad changes.

Quoted from louth_in_the_south

We’re not stupid, as much as it’s easy for people in the game to say we don’t get it . Football managers are successful for their man management , as much as they want to believe it’s about their technical side . Don’t get the man management right , no amount of technical mumbo jumbo will work .

I didn’t see it personally as I was too busy in the Upper having my own rant but word in the street is that Artell’s man management of Cartwright didn’t really fit with the current club culture

Quoted from HertsGTFC

I didn’t see it personally as I was too busy in the Upper having my own rant but word in the street is that Artell’s man management of Cartwright didn’t really fit with the current club culture

No it does not  but his win rate slots in just right  :-/

Quoted from HertsGTFC

I didn’t see it personally as I was too busy in the Upper having my own rant but word in the street is that Artell’s man management of Cartwright didn’t really fit with the current club culture

Well let's hope hull don't recall him like man u did with Henderson, Eastwood is considerably worse.

I went to Accrington last week and saw a team that was improved with the new recruits and in the game should really have got the three points. I’m thinking we’ll be ok, shame we have Stockport next week as we’ll obviously get dicked but come Tuesday and then the following Saturday at home against Donny we’ll be fine. I still believe that. I look at the fixture list and act accordingly regarding expectations, not many others do it would seem.

Quoted from louth_in_the_south

We’re not stupid, as much as it’s easy for people in the game to say we don’t get it . Football managers are successful for their man management , as much as they want to believe it’s about their technical side . Don’t get the man management right , no amount of technical mumbo jumbo will work .

Think the issues that on modern coaching course that is what is taught.Think the higher echelon have lost sight it is about passion emotion and commitment they  all follow like sheep,like all fashion,it will pass.

Quoted from oochiad

I went to Accrington last week and saw a team that was improved with the new recruits and in the game should really have got the three points. I’m thinking we’ll be ok, shame we have Stockport next week as we’ll obviously get dicked but come Tuesday and then the following Saturday at home against Donny we’ll be fine. I still believe that. I look at the fixture list and act accordingly regarding expectations, not many others do it would seem.

There’s defeats and there’s the manner of defeats. Stockport were metaphorically in the pub with their feet up at half time and for Artell to make out we were better in the second half is pretty patronising. They could have scored many more yesterday on top of the three we gifted them.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

There’s defeats and there’s the manner of defeats. Stockport were metaphorically in the pub with their feet up at half time and for Artell to make out we were better in the second half is pretty patronising. They could have scored many more yesterday on top of the three we gifted them.

Yes and your point is? I expected the defeat to be greater than 3-1 actually. The manner of defeat? A team that isn’t implementing instructions because they can’t, and beaten easily by a team well organised and scoring for fun, what did anyone expect? As I said, people’s expectations aren’t realistic……..

Quoted from oochiad

Yes and your point is? I expected the defeat to be greater than 3-1 actually. The manner of defeat? A team that isn’t implementing instructions because they can’t, and beaten easily by a team well organised and scoring for fun, what did anyone expect? As I said, people’s expectations aren’t realistic……..

I expected to see a team up for the battle whether we lost or not, not a team that rolls over to have its belly tickled.

You obviously have lower expectations than I do.

Quoted from arryarryarry

I expected to see a team up for the battle whether we lost or not, not a team that rolls over to have its belly tickled.

You obviously have lower expectations than I do.

Suggest you support someone else at the minute then, as we’re not capable of what you wish for. Whether you think Stockport couldn’t be arsed second half  the fact is it was 1-0 to ourselves. Is that pure fluke or a side that tried to some level??? Now Tuesday and Saturday I expect them to be at least competitive as we are playing sides that are on our level.

Quoted from oochiad

Suggest you support someone else at the minute then, as we’re not capable of what you wish for. Whether you think Stockport couldn’t be arsed second half  the fact is it was 1-0 to ourselves. Is that pure fluke or a side that tried to some level??? Now Tuesday and Saturday I expect them to be at least competitive as we are playing sides that are on our level.

So you're not bothered if the players can't be arsed and at least try to compete.

I suggest you take up watching another sport as it was plain to our crowd that Stockport took their foot off the pedal, they made changes and stopped pressing our defence. After our goal we created intercourse all.

Quoted from arryarryarry

So you're not bothered if the players can't be arsed and at least try to compete.

I suggest you take up watching another sport as it was plain to our crowd that Stockport took their foot off the pedal, they made changes and stopped pressing our defence. After our goal we created intercourse all.

I respect your opinion H but I see it differently. I see a side trying but struggling, incapable of carry out orders(style of play) and under a lot of pressure when we’re at home with a crowd on their backs. We want the same thing though which is some good results that will keep our league status and so I’ll leave it at that. UTM!

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Adkins wasn’t available he was already working at Tranmere. Not sure how you can say that about Cotterell who’s turned us down at least one in the past, though it was a long time ago.

He was available in the time it took to sack Hurst and put artell in place .Cotterell don't know why he turned us down .It could be money .

I think we need stability and artell won’t change his ways and is forcing his stupid pep football with a team of clueless players

When we beat Morecambe 3-2 it was a brilliant game we dominated and shouldn’t of conceded 2 goals and easily could of scored more I thought glennon was going to be a brilliant star for us  , the atsmophere was electric and the Osmond was rocking , as a younger fan this was up their with the top 10 games in my years supporting , we played some brilliant counter attacking football and got bums of their seat, going to the recent games at home the atsmophere is like a morgue artell supposedly entertaining football is dire to watch , the Tranmere Game was one of the few times I was looking forward to go home before the end of a game


I think on paper this was a great appointment which I thought it would be , but he’s stubborn and wants to play this stupid football that even prem teams make big mistakes with


Shaun and Bens football got us results and stability and they would keep us in the football league  they knew are strengths , as I said earlier in another thread , the cowleys was the obvious appointment and we should of tried our best to get him

Quoted from Norseman

He was available in the time it took to sack Hurst and put artell in place .Cotterell don't know why he turned us down .It could be money .

Was he? Confirm this.

Quoted from Norseman

He was available in the time it took to sack Hurst and put artell in place .Cotterell don't know why he turned us down .It could be money .

Looks more of a location thing to me, originally from Gloucestershire, he's not had to travel as far as Grimsby before put it that way.

So, by merging the overlapping poll options we have (as I write):

IN 40.84%      (In + 'Trust the Process')

OUT 35.08%   (Out + Busted Flush)

UNDECIDED 24.08%  (Give him 2 more games)

Pretty even - though the undecided are at least leaning towards the out "camp".

Can I make a plea to all posters to remember that - however strongly you may feel (either way) - there are plenty who think
differently. Heated exchanges on the forum won't matter - it's an issue for the owners to decide.

In the end we all want the same thing.

UTM

Quoted from HertsGTFC

I didn’t see it personally as I was too busy in the Upper having my own rant but word in the street is that Artell’s man management of Cartwright didn’t really fit with the current club culture

And Cartwright had no choice.  His options for playing out of the back were not on, so he lumped it. Not much else he could have done really.

like brexit !

Quoted from 137

So, by merging the overlapping poll options we have (as I write):

IN 40.84%      (In + 'Trust the Process')

OUT 35.08%   (Out + Busted Flush)

UNDECIDED 24.08%  (Give him 2 more games)

Pretty even - though the undecided are at least leaning towards the out "camp".

Can I make a plea to all posters to remember that - however strongly you may feel (either way) - there are plenty who think
differently. Heated exchanges on the forum won't matter - it's an issue for the owners to decide.

In the end we all want the same thing.

UTM

Another poll after the next 2 games - I would suggest the balance will swing one way or the other dependant on how it goes .

Quoted from FrazerGTFC

I think we need stability and artell won’t change his ways and is forcing his stupid pep football with a team of clueless players

When we beat Morecambe 3-2 it was a brilliant game we dominated and shouldn’t of conceded 2 goals and easily could of scored more I thought glennon was going to be a brilliant star for us  , the atsmophere was electric and the Osmond was rocking , as a younger fan this was up their with the top 10 games in my years supporting , we played some brilliant counter attacking football and got bums of their seat, going to the recent games at home the atsmophere is like a morgue artell supposedly entertaining football is dire to watch , the Tranmere Game was one of the few times I was looking forward to go home before the end of a game


I think on paper this was a great appointment which I thought it would be , but he’s stubborn and wants to play this stupid football that even prem teams make big mistakes with


Shaun and Bens football got us results and stability and they would keep us in the football league they knew are strengths , as I said earlier in another thread , the cowleys was the obvious appointment and we should of tried our best to get him

That is supposition, you can't possibly know that and state it as a fact.  Also two of those results were against a part time lower league side who we were lucky to draw with in the first game.  And Shaun and Ben were part of the backroom staff when PH was sacked and Shaun is Assistant Manager and Ben a Coach under DA, so they are part of this, as you put it, 'stupid football' that DA is trying to implement here.  And you want these two inexperienced 'managers' to take over the team!  No thanks.

Quoted from 123614

That is supposition, you can't possibly know that and state it as a fact.  Also two of those results were against a part time lower league side who we were lucky to draw with in the first game.  And Shaun and Ben were part of the backroom staff when PH was sacked and Shaun is Assistant Manager and Ben a Coach under DA, so they are part of this, as you put it, 'stupid football' that DA is trying to implement here.  And you want these two inexperienced 'managers' to take over the team!  No thanks.

There are three basic options open to us now and in the coming weeks. One; we stick with Artell. Two; we sack Artell and install Pearson and Davies until the end of the season. And three; we sack Artell and make an external appointment. I see risk in every option.

Artell appears steadfast in the method and style he wants to play with, despite the fact that it patently isn’t working and sides appear to have completely worked us out. The players, once again, look absolutely zapped of confidence and the body language on the pitch and in the dugout was concerning on Saturday. To turn things around, Artell needs to either change tact entirely, or find a way to make his methods work pronto. I don’t have much faith that either will happen, after Saturday.

Person and Davies certainly did bring a sense of stability and sensibility to proceedings, and with 5 points from 3 games have comfortably the best PPG record of any of the 3 management setups we’ve had this season. That’s play-off form incidentally, but it’s a small sample size, and it would be dangerous to take that as a microcosm of what they might be able to replicate between now and the end of the season.

Any external option, by definition, is likely someone we deemed less qualified than Artell as recently as November, or who has a fresh sacking on their CV inside the last 3 months. Realistically, you don’t have the luxury of another month to make an appointment this time around, unless you consider option 2 a good one, in which case you surely just do that anyway. Ultimately, it’s likely we’d simply have to go for our 2nd or 3rd choice from last time round, and that’s if they still want it. It’s not a scenario I find particularly mouth watering, to say the least.

Ultimately, there are a broad spectrum of views being expressed on here ranging from “Artell has to go now” to “stick with him - he’s the man”. I have my own opinion, but I recognise that whatever your stance, it will take the fullness of time to establish what the correct course of action might have been.

My position is that Artell should get the next two games, provided things aren’t completely batshít behind the scenes, but he has to return with an absolute minimum of 2 points, and neither performance should be a disgrace. Those are not lofty ambitions, and if Artell is indeed “the man”, he should be capable of delivering at least that against Colchester and Donny teams whose points totals suggest are not demonstrably better than us.

If he fails, I can see no argument to retain his services. In that case, I think the best option is to revert back to a Pearson / Davies combo indefinitely, and keep our powder dry on another third-party option in the event they cannot repeat their previous success.

I’ve done a lot of thinking on this in the past 24 hours, and that seems to me at least to be the most cogent short-term plan. Others may see things differently.

If we end up with Pearson and Davies as permanent managers that would be the ultimate statement of we have no ambition and are a non league / lower League 2 yo yo club.

Quoted from HerveJosse

If we end up with Pearson and Davies as permanent managers that would be the ultimate statement of we have no ambition and are a non league / lower League 2 yo yo club.

Totally agree we need a total clearout to rid the club of the ''Grimsby Mentality'' Pearson and Davies are as much to blame as anybody else.

Quoted from friskneymariner

Totally agree we need a total clearout to rid the club of the ''Grimsby Mentality'' Pearson and Davies are as much to blame as anybody else.

I’m not sure that’s fair. We’ve gone from Hurst’s “take no risk, ever” approach to Artell wanting us to consistently take risks inside our own final third. There were / are clear problems with both extremes; I doubt either directive was coming from Pearson or Davies. If anything, they seemed to have us playing with something of a happy medium during their brief spell.

Quoted from Poojah

I’m not sure that’s fair. We’ve gone from Hurst’s “take no risk, ever” approach to Artell wanting us to consistently take risks inside our own final third. There were / are clear problems with both extremes; I doubt either directive was coming from Pearson or Davies. If anything, they seemed to have us playing with something of a happy medium during their brief spell.

Sense.

Quoted from Poojah

I’m not sure that’s fair. We’ve gone from Hurst’s “take no risk, ever” approach to Artell wanting us to consistently take risks inside our own final third. There were / are clear problems with both extremes; I doubt either directive was coming from Pearson or Davies. If anything, they seemed to have us playing with something of a happy medium during their brief spell.

And unlike Artell who doesn't seem to get it they know the impact that relegation would have on the supporters as well as the club.

When I listened to Challonor's post match he talked about knowing how we play, setting traps etc.. etc.. if we only have 1 way of playing (and we seem to have) then results like last week will keep happening.

I know that people get up tight about managers looking at opponents and working out how to beat them but you do have to adapt to try and win, Artell's attitude just seems to be we'll just play our game and try and be better than you. Which might be o.k. if he was working with much, much better players.

I've done a 360 on him in the last week or two and personally I think anything less than 3 points from the next 2 games and he should be binned.

Quoted from Poojah

I’m not sure that’s fair. We’ve gone from Hurst’s “take no risk, ever” approach to Artell wanting us to consistently take risks inside our own final third. There were / are clear problems with both extremes; I doubt either directive was coming from Pearson or Davies. If anything, they seemed to have us playing with something of a happy medium during their brief spell.

Key word for me.  Happy. Complete logic and common in Poojah's last two posts.
They aren't happy.  
Happy teams enjoy the game - and like playing the best way they can.
Happy teams scrap and fight for each other.
Blundell Park likes to see a fighting team.

Quoted from Poojah

There are three basic options open to us now and in the coming weeks. One; we stick with Artell. Two; we sack Artell and install Pearson and Davies until the end of the season. And three; we sack Artell and make an external appointment. I see risk in every option.

Artell appears steadfast in the method and style he wants to play with, despite the fact that it patently isn’t working and sides appear to have completely worked us out. The players, once again, look absolutely zapped of confidence and the body language on the pitch and in the dugout was concerning on Saturday. To turn things around, Artell needs to either change tact entirely, or find a way to make his methods work pronto. I don’t have much faith that either will happen, after Saturday.

Person and Davies certainly did bring a sense of stability and sensibility to proceedings, and with 5 points from 3 games have comfortably the best PPG record of any of the 3 management setups we’ve had this season. That’s play-off form incidentally, but it’s a small sample size, and it would be dangerous to take that as a microcosm of what they might be able to replicate between now and the end of the season.

Any external option, by definition, is likely someone we deemed less qualified than Artell as recently as November, or who has a fresh sacking on their CV inside the last 3 months. Realistically, you don’t have the luxury of another month to make an appointment this time around, unless you consider option 2 a good one, in which case you surely just do that anyway. Ultimately, it’s likely we’d simply have to go for our 2nd or 3rd choice from last time round, and that’s if they still want it. It’s not a scenario I find particularly mouth watering, to say the least.

Ultimately, there are a broad spectrum of views being expressed on here ranging from “Artell has to go now” to “stick with him - he’s the man”. I have my own opinion, but I recognise that whatever your stance, it will take the fullness of time to establish what the correct course of action might have been.

My position is that Artell should get the next two games, provided things aren’t completely batshít behind the scenes, but he has to return with an absolute minimum of 2 points, and neither performance should be a disgrace. Those are not lofty ambitions, and if Artell is indeed “the man”, he should be capable of delivering at least that against Colchester and Donny teams whose points totals suggest are not demonstrably better than us.

If he fails, I can see no argument to retain his services. In that case, I think the best option is to revert back to a Pearson / Davies combo indefinitely, and keep our powder dry on another third-party option in the event they cannot repeat their previous success.

I’ve done a lot of thinking on this in the past 24 hours, and that seems to me at least to be the most cogent short-term plan. Others may see things differently.

I think it is inconceivable the owners will sack him, whatever happens.

They have decided the way to go, Artell was their number one choice to deliver a whole new philosophy running through the club in an attempt to get an identity and move up the leagues by top coaching and nurturing talent to sell on.

I remember in the early days of Buckley getting beaten 4 nil at home with the crowd baying for blood.

If it really went belly up and we got relegated I still think they would stick with this plan even if Artell left.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

I think it is inconceivable the owners will sack him, whatever happens.

They have decided the way to go, Artell was their number one choice to deliver a whole new philosophy running through the club in an attempt to get an identity and move up the leagues by top coaching and nurturing talent to sell on.

I remember in the early days of Buckley getting beaten 4 nil at home with the crowd baying for blood.

If it really went belly up and we got relegated I still think they would stick with this plan even if Artell left.

I’m not sure about that. The atmosphere towards the end of the Donny away game was bordering on toxic, and that was for a bloke who had delivered some of the best times in recent memory for this football club.

If, and this remains a big if at this stage, we lose the next two games, the atmosphere against Doncaster will, again, be one of absolutely untenable proportions. Remember, last time we went down fans weren’t in the ground; there is a lot of pent up anger there that never got properly vented.

If the owners were to persist with Artell beyond that point, that anger will, rightly or wrongly, inevitably turn towards them. I would argue “wrongly”, but it is inevitable all the same. Town fans have seen this kind of shít before, they’ve got the fúcking t-shirt - they will not stand idly and meekly by while we sleepwalk through the trapdoor once more.

Win tomorrow night and the whole narrative changes, but there’s no way Artell can lose the next two games and expect to be in the dugout at Morecambe.

Quoted from HerveJosse

If we end up with Pearson and Davies as permanent managers that would be the ultimate statement of we have no ambition and are a non league / lower League 2 yo yo club.

The thing is, recent history says we are a non-league/L2 yo-yo team.

This doesn't sit well with me either, but it's the reality.

I've read many posts on here saying that we should be a mid-table L1 side.
This is based either on (i) our history - which is a bollox argument imo as history is all about the past; or
                                 (ii) our attendances - which is a better argument.
Fenty had plenty to do with us being where we are now - which is struggling to become an 'established' L2 team.

This isn't peculiar to GTFC though (off the top of my head):
Chesterfield
Aldershot
Oldham
Hartlepool
Rochdale
Barnet
Southend
York
Chester
Darlington
Scunthorpe  :P
Torquay
were L2 clubs in the fairly recent past, but are now wallowing down the pyramid.

So it would be a decent achievement if we could just be competitive in League 2 for a few seasons.
Only then could we sensibly talk about L1 (I think we'll need a new ground/larger capacity to do that. So not in my lifetime!)

Having said all that (i) how can you be so sure Shaun and Ben wouldn't be a wonderful management duo?
                            (ii) can you give me 1 or 2 plausible names who would show ambition? (Most L2 managers carry scars...)

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

I think it is inconceivable the owners will sack him, whatever happens.

They have decided the way to go, Artell was their number one choice to deliver a whole new philosophy running through the club in an attempt to get an identity and move up the leagues by top coaching and nurturing talent to sell on.

I remember in the early days of Buckley getting beaten 4 nil at home with the crowd baying for blood.

If it really went belly up and we got relegated I still think they would stick with this plan even if Artell left.

Interesting point re nurturing talent as, other than Conteh, it’s hard to see which of the other players recruited fit this spec? From our initial signings, following the return to the EFL, is arguable that both Glennon and Hunt fitted this approach but now neither can even get in the side. Nor can Khouri and non of the lads kept on from the Academy look like they’re going to make it.

Pretty difficult to actually identify what our recruitment policy is other than taking on players not good enough!!!

Quoted from Lincoln Mariner 56

Interesting point re nurturing talent as, other than Conteh, it’s hard to see which of the other players recruited fit this spec? From our initial signings, following the return to the EFL, is arguable that both Glennon and Hunt fitted this approach but now neither can even get in the side. Nor can Khouri and non of the lads kept on from the Academy look like they’re going to make it.

Pretty difficult to actually identify what our recruitment policy is other than taking on players not good enough!!!

Indeed. Having a policy and implementing successfully are two different things!

At least they have a plan with someone who wholeheartedly supports it and they will give him the time it needs.

Of course budget has a lot to do with it; if your top 10 choices get better offers elsewhere it doesn't matter what the plan is which is why I am disappointed they have thus far been unable to bring new money into the club to give us a kick start as let's face it - it will take quite a few years for the plan to bear fruit.

Quoted from Poojah

I’m not sure about that. The atmosphere towards the end of the Donny away game was bordering on toxic, and that was for a bloke who had delivered some of the best times in recent memory for this football club.

If, and this remains a big if at this stage, we lose the next two games, the atmosphere against Doncaster will, again, be one of absolutely untenable proportions. Remember, last time we went down fans weren’t in the ground; there is a lot of pent up anger there that never got properly vented.

If the owners were to persist with Artell beyond that point, that anger will, rightly or wrongly, inevitably turn towards them. I would argue “wrongly”, but it is inevitable all the same. Town fans have seen this kind of shít before, they’ve got the fúcking t-shirt - they will not stand idly and meekly by while we sleepwalk through the trapdoor once more.

Win tomorrow night and the whole narrative changes, but there’s no way Artell can lose the next two games and expect to be in the dugout at Morecambe.

Well we haven't got long to wait to find out which is a blessing of sorts!

I am still Artell in so long as the owners think/know that the players still believe in him and their relationship is still in tact. I don’t think it would do us any good swapping again now. I do still believe we will stay up although not convincingly.

I don’t really enjoy the new style of play. I was in favour of Hurst moving on and I hoped we would appoint a manager who could bring some new ideas regarding attacking cohesion. I appreciate Artell is trying to do that, but for me it’s in the wrong areas and right now it’s chaotic. I think the calls for more pragmatism right now are bang on.

For me our big weakness is the midfield. I know we can’t defend but firstly I think we are causing our own problems there with the style we are now playing, and secondly I think the midfield leave them exposed. I’ve lost count of the number of times we have seen teams run straight through the middle of us this season, leaving Maher and Rodgers as sitting ducks. Like I said, they haven’t covered themselves in glory but they aren’t getting the protection they need either.

Every central midfielder we have has something good about them. Harry doesn’t stop running, Green gets stuck in, Andrews presses high up the pitch… but that’s about it. We don’t have any solid all-rounders. Holohan would be our nearest but he’s inconsistent. There is no combination of three you can put together that convince you we are going to win the midfield that day, which just leaves us with a huge hole in the middle of the pitch.

I’ll end there since I’m rambling. In short; I think we’ll be ok (just) let him overhaul the squad completely in the summer and I think we’ll be much better next year.

Quoted from 137

The thing is, recent history says we are a non-league/L2 yo-yo team.

This doesn't sit well with me either, but it's the reality.

I've read many posts on here saying that we should be a mid-table L1 side.
This is based either on (i) our history - which is a bollox argument imo as history is all about the past; or
                                 (ii) our attendances - which is a better argument.
Fenty had plenty to do with us being where we are now - which is struggling to become an 'established' L2 team.

This isn't peculiar to GTFC though (off the top of my head):
Chesterfield
Aldershot
Oldham
Hartlepool
Rochdale
Barnet
Southend
York
Chester
Darlington
Scunthorpe  :P
Torquay
were L2 clubs in the fairly recent past, but are now wallowing down the pyramid.

So it would be a decent achievement if we could just be competitive in League 2 for a few seasons.
Only then could we sensibly talk about L1 (I think we'll need a new ground/larger capacity to do that. So not in my lifetime!)

Having said all that (i) how can you be so sure Shaun and Ben wouldn't be a wonderful management duo?
                            (ii) can you give me 1 or 2 plausible names who would show ambition? (Most L2 managers carry scars...)

Of that list only four; Chesterfield, Southend, Oldham and Hartlepool get even close to our level of support. The rest of them currently and historically get nowhere near it. With attendances of 6200 and the money from a once in a lifetime bit of football fortune we absolutely should not be scrabbling around in the bottom four of L2. How can we not afford to even have 11 players capable of doing the basics consistently? We must be one of the worst performing teams in the division when it comes to budget and performances. A lot of that blame lies with Hurst with some very poor recruitment and squad building but some of that lies with Artell for insisting on playing a style that the players aren't capable of and is chiseling away at their already very low confidence.

Quoted from winghams

Key word for me.  Happy. Complete logic and common in Poojah's last two posts.
They aren't happy.  
Happy teams enjoy the game - and like playing the best way they can.
Happy teams scrap and fight for each other.
Blundell Park likes to see a fighting team.

I think this could be more pertinent than we realise. We know from his interviews that Artell's mannerisms, stubbornness and occasional arrogance rubs up a significant percentage of the fanbase. I can't imagine he's too different in training and his man-management of Cartwright at the weekend leaves a lot to be desired. If you're low on confidence and being asked to play in a way that's highly risky then you're probably not going to be particularly happy in your job particularly if you get publicly lambasted when you (understandably) deviate from that plan. The lack of togetherness and the horrendous body language from the entire team on Saturday suggests it's not a happy camp and if we lose both the next two games it'll only get worse. I'm not massively keen on Pearson and Davies being in charge but if we were to lose the next two then at least putting them in charge might raise the spirits of the players a bit.

Quoted from Poojah

There are three basic options open to us now and in the coming weeks. One; we stick with Artell. Two; we sack Artell and install Pearson and Davies until the end of the season. And three; we sack Artell and make an external appointment. I see risk in every option.

Artell appears steadfast in the method and style he wants to play with, despite the fact that it patently isn’t working and sides appear to have completely worked us out. The players, once again, look absolutely zapped of confidence and the body language on the pitch and in the dugout was concerning on Saturday. To turn things around, Artell needs to either change tact entirely, or find a way to make his methods work pronto. I don’t have much faith that either will happen, after Saturday.

Person and Davies certainly did bring a sense of stability and sensibility to proceedings, and with 5 points from 3 games have comfortably the best PPG record of any of the 3 management setups we’ve had this season. That’s play-off form incidentally, but it’s a small sample size, and it would be dangerous to take that as a microcosm of what they might be able to replicate between now and the end of the season.

Any external option, by definition, is likely someone we deemed less qualified than Artell as recently as November, or who has a fresh sacking on their CV inside the last 3 months. Realistically, you don’t have the luxury of another month to make an appointment this time around, unless you consider option 2 a good one, in which case you surely just do that anyway. Ultimately, it’s likely we’d simply have to go for our 2nd or 3rd choice from last time round, and that’s if they still want it. It’s not a scenario I find particularly mouth watering, to say the least.

Ultimately, there are a broad spectrum of views being expressed on here ranging from “Artell has to go now” to “stick with him - he’s the man”. I have my own opinion, but I recognise that whatever your stance, it will take the fullness of time to establish what the correct course of action might have been.

My position is that Artell should get the next two games, provided things aren’t completely batshít behind the scenes, but he has to return with an absolute minimum of 2 points, and neither performance should be a disgrace. Those are not lofty ambitions, and if Artell is indeed “the man”, he should be capable of delivering at least that against Colchester and Donny teams whose points totals suggest are not demonstrably better than us.

If he fails, I can see no argument to retain his services. In that case, I think the best option is to revert back to a Pearson / Davies combo indefinitely, and keep our powder dry on another third-party option in the event they cannot repeat their previous success.

I’ve done a lot of thinking on this in the past 24 hours, and that seems to me at least to be the most cogent short-term plan. Others may see things differently.

Logically and eloquently put as usual. I can't disagree with anything you have put, but wait and see is very stressful especially on the nerves.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

And unlike Artell who doesn't seem to get it they know the impact that relegation would have on the supporters as well as the club.

He does 'Get It'. Every bloody interview he tells us he gets it. The problem is he has done nothing about it.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Well we haven't got long to wait to find out which is a blessing of sorts!

1 or 2 points and Sutton picking up 3 or more though would put us in purgatory territory. Not quite the sack but still in the danger zone. If we leave it too late we'll be in a Neil Woods situation where there is even a temptation to start next season with Artell and the Grimsby Way philosophy. Only reason we're not in more trouble is pure luck right now that the bottom two are so useless.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Was he? Confirm this.

We sacked Hurst 28th October .Adkins was appointed  full time 2nd November .Stockroom said they were looking at the data for 6 weeks prior to sacking Hurst. Do your own checks

Quoted from Norseman

We sacked Hurst 28th October .Adkins was appointed  full time 2nd November .Stockroom said they were looking at the data for 6 weeks prior to sacking Hurst. Do your own checks

Adkins had been involved with Tranmere since the summer, he was an ex player abd acting as a consultant, he was never available to anybody else.

We've been excrement for 20 years. From top to bottom, our facilities, ex chairman and location have prevented any sort of improvement. Last week's draw is a sign of what this group can do and we've just lost to probably this years champions.  I believe we'll be ok and push on next season. UTM

Artell gonna win the next two games, no more individual errors against the soon to be champions and we will look a whole more composed tonight.

Hopefully vernam starts and runs the show.

Quoted from Norseman

We sacked Hurst 28th October .Adkins was appointed  full time 2nd November .Stockroom said they were looking at the data for 6 weeks prior to sacking Hurst. Do your own checks

Yeah but Adkins was already their manager since September and had been working for them since pre season so he wasn't really available in the usual sense

Quoted from Norseman

We sacked Hurst 28th October .Adkins was appointed  full time 2nd November .Stockroom said they were looking at the data for 6 weeks prior to sacking Hurst. Do your own checks

Perhaps you should do some checks of your own before boldly stating your position.

https://www.tranmererovers.co.uk/news/2023/may/tranmere-rovers-announce-nigel-adkins-as-technical-director/

Artell stated in his interview that he needed 3 more recruitment periods to get the team he wanted/needed. Somehow I can't see the fans waiting until the end of next season before he gets it right, if at all.

Personally, I see too many comparisons to a certain "Billy Bullsh1t" Bignot  who also proclaimed "I get it" on a regular basis. If he was so good why was he out of work for so long?  Did Crewe ever really hit the heights?              

He's not the Messiah the fans are looking for in my book.

Quoted from Stranger in the Park

Artell stated in his interview that he needed 3 more recruitment periods to get the team he wanted/needed. Somehow I can't see the fans waiting until the end of next season before he gets it right, if at all.

Personally, I see too many comparisons to a certain "Billy Bullsh1t" Bignot  who also proclaimed "I get it" on a regular basis. If he was so good why was he out of work for so long?  Did Crewe ever really hit the heights?              

He's not the Messiah the fans are looking for in my book.

Bit in bold - on this I'm with him, remember you have to manage outgoings as much as manage incomings as we only have the financial resource to sustain a reasonable number of pros. This squad looked good on paper at the start of the season but on grass it's proving  poor.

You have an interesting point there Stranger.
The Alex have to sell someone regularly to stay in business. Thats the business template.  Grow your own players and sell them on.  This means that every year the quoted odds on success are long. There is little recruitment of "known" players. But if the production line is slow and/or there are a lot of contracts at an end they then slump next season cos everyone pays more than the Alex do.
Do Grimsby intend to pay enough salary to retain the players if Artell's plan begins to work?

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Bit in bold - on this I'm with him, remember you have to manage outgoings as much as manage incomings as we only have the financial resource to sustain a reasonable number of pros. This squad looked good on paper at the start of the season but on grass it's proving  poor.

Yes putting together any team is a mix of knowledge and the unknown. You can do as many checks as you like but putting a squad together is totally different to how they have performed individually in the past. It could be just a simple matter of them not getting on as well as they should  or just not able to perform as well in a different environment, or their previous team playing to the strengths of a particular player. A good manager will do his best to mitigate these circumstances but it must be very hard.

The opposite is also true of course that a player might seem to fail dismally at one club and be a roaring success elsewhere.

At least now we can look for players who in general terms at least can play how the manager wants but by God you need huge amounts of luck especially with a mid range budget which restricts your choice a bit.

I would be very shocked after today if the results in this poll were the same.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Bit in bold - on this I'm with him, remember you have to manage outgoings as much as manage incomings as we only have the financial resource to sustain a reasonable number of pros. This squad looked good on paper at the start of the season but on grass it's proving  poor.

Do you still want him to have 3 more transfer windows?

We will probably end up looking up at the Scunts.

My two pennies worth….

I was told a few weeks ago (believe it or not) that the players absolutely hate Artell. Not just the players but some staff too. Now I think it’s clear to see that they just aren’t playing for him.
I also don’t buy in to the narrative of him saying he doesn’t need an assistant manager he’ll work solely with Pearson and Davies because it’s the right thing to do. This isn’t a guy that comes across as someone who does things because it’s the right thing to do.

If you're trying to implement a completely new ‘style’ of football into a group of players who have ‘never been asked to do it before’ then what’s better than one voice trying to press that home? Two voices! But that’s only a problem if your old assistant manager doesn’t want to work with you anymore! Alarm bells!

I absolutely love the owners for getting us away from fenty but they have to seriously look at this appointment and accept they got one wrong and cut the head off the snake.

Please as well don’t think that Pearson and Davies to the end of the season is the right answer, two completely novice managers trying to fight a relegation scrap is absolutely not what we need and will IMO lead to us going down.

We need to get back to what we’ll always be a hard working tough to beat horrible side to play at home. The owners need to as much as it’s a waste of money, use the Conteh money to pay up Artell and offer a experienced manager a lucrative six month deal (with a option to extend if they wish to if they keep us up) to come rescue us (despite what Pratt dannatt says on twitter if you pay them they will come)

UTM.

It’s nearly 7am and I’m still dumbfounded by what happened yesterday. Something, yet again unfortunately, isn’t quite right. After the past few performances there’s always going to be those that ‘are in the know’ about what’s happening around the club and those that don’t like the manager and want him out anyway but Christ on a bike, lightening is looking like it’s going to be striking for a 3rd time, and that’s worrying.

I hope DA is having as many sleepless nights as the supporters are. Maybe he doesn’t actually care that much? Yes I know he was animated on the touch line yesterday, he’s giving the stereotypical interviews and will say that we’re not going down, but the table doesn’t lie this morning. We are 6 points off the team below and have a defence that seems to part far better than Moses could ever imagine so the goal difference will soon become irrelevant letting in 4,,5 or 6 EVERY game.

I like the owners and the job they have done in the small amount of time has been very credible, but, I’m hoping they are having serious conversations about what is happening. Record season ticket sales are a thing that won’t happen again and am struggling to see why anyone would actually want to buy a season ticket next season. Things can’t continue this way. It’s worrying.

Another poll, might get more attention from the decision makers

I've said no to being sacked, but only because I don't think the ownership will. That was the only reason. I think we are stuck with him until at least the end of the season, where we'll either find we have been relegated or we've sacrificed enough goats to the football gods we somehow stay up.