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I think we will just starve off relegation this season, as I think there will be two worse teams (We HAVE to beat Donny, Forest Green and Sutton).
But looking at the list of players, its absoultely frightenning the amount of players I would let go, or look to offload at the end of the season.

I think thats a big task for any manager and I think the owners need to get in their minds now, that the close season may cost them more money than they envisaged!

Is this the worst squad we've seen from Town in the last ten years? - Potentially is.

Goalkeepers
Harvey Cartwright - Think gets unfair critistim. Kept us in games and most goals havent been his fault. Would sign as backup.
Jake Eastwood - Not good enough. Offload.

Defenders
Danny Amos - Not good enough. Offload.
Michee Efete - Not good enough. Offload.
Anthony Glennon - Defensively very poor and a massive portion of goals conceeded have come down his side. Offload.
Niall Maher - Should only be kept as backup.
Toby Mullarkey - Defensively very poor and a massive portion of goals conceeded have come down his side. Offload.
Harvey Rodgers - One of the worst defenders I've seen.
Doug Tharme - Too early to judge.

Midfielders
Callum Ainley - No comment except get well soon.
Jamie Andrews - Goes absent in games too many times. Don't attempt to sign.
Aaron Braithwaite - No comment
Jamie Bramwell - No comment
Harry Clifton - Not the same player as last couple of seasons. Unfortunatley it was maybe time for him to move on last summer when we had 'rumoured' interest.
Kieran Green - Not good enough. Offload.
Gavan Holohan - Unfortunatley offload at the end of the season. Been a good player but now becoming to inconsistant.
Alex Hunt - Not good enough. Offload.
Otis Khan - Not good enough. Let contract run out.
Evan Khouri - Needs a 6 month loan to see how he gets on.
Charles Vernam - He needs to prove what he can offer towards end of the season.
Harry Wood - To early to assess, but IF it was just based on yesterday, i would'nt attempt to sign.
Arthur Gnahoua - Not good enough. Offload.

Forwards
Abo Eisa - Offer a new 1 year contact, but needs to be more consistant.
Edwin Essel - No comment, but assume he will be released.
Cameron Gardner - No comment, but I dont see him breaking into the team this season.
Justin Obikwu - Too early to judge.
Rekeil Pyke - Hardly available. Offload.
Danny Rose - Keep. The only shining light of a poor season.
Harvey Tomlinson - No comment, but assume he will be released.
Donovan Wilson - Hardly available. Offload.

Is that a squad of 3 you are left with 😬

It would’ve been quicker to say you’d release everyone but Rose

Quoted from Corkyefes

I think we will just starve off relegation this season, as I think there will be two worse teams (We HAVE to beat Donny, Forest Green and Sutton).
But looking at the list of players, its absoultely frightenning the amount of players I would let go, or look to offload at the end of the season.

I think thats a big task for any manager and I think the owners need to get in their minds now, that the close season may cost them more money than they envisaged!

Is this the worst squad we've seen from Town in the last ten years? - Potentially is.

Goalkeepers
Harvey Cartwright - Think gets unfair critistim. Kept us in games and most goals havent been his fault. Would sign as backup.
Jake Eastwood - Not good enough. Offload.

Defenders
Danny Amos - Not good enough. Offload.
Michee Efete - Not good enough. Offload.
Anthony Glennon - Defensively very poor and a massive portion of goals conceeded have come down his side. Offload.
Niall Maher - Should only be kept as backup.
Toby Mullarkey - Defensively very poor and a massive portion of goals conceeded have come down his side. Offload.
Harvey Rodgers - One of the worst defenders I've seen.
Doug Tharme - Too early to judge.

Midfielders
Callum Ainley - No comment except get well soon.
Jamie Andrews - Goes absent in games too many times. Don't attempt to sign.
Aaron Braithwaite - No comment
Jamie Bramwell - No comment
Harry Clifton - Not the same player as last couple of seasons. Unfortunatley it was maybe time for him to move on last summer when we had 'rumoured' interest.
Kieran Green - Not good enough. Offload.
Gavan Holohan - Unfortunatley offload at the end of the season. Been a good player but now becoming to inconsistant.
Alex Hunt - Not good enough. Offload.
Otis Khan - Not good enough. Let contract run out.
Evan Khouri - Needs a 6 month loan to see how he gets on.
Charles Vernam - He needs to prove what he can offer towards end of the season.
Harry Wood - To early to assess, but IF it was just based on yesterday, i would'nt attempt to sign.
Arthur Gnahoua - Not good enough. Offload.

Forwards
Abo Eisa - Offer a new 1 year contact, but needs to be more consistant.
Edwin Essel - No comment, but assume he will be released.
Cameron Gardner - No comment, but I dont see him breaking into the team this season.
Justin Obikwu - Too early to judge.
Rekeil Pyke - Hardly available. Offload.
Danny Rose - Keep. The only shining light of a poor season.
Harvey Tomlinson - No comment, but assume he will be released.
Donovan Wilson - Hardly available. Offload.

Other than keeping Eisa I don’t disagree with any of that but the “off loads” will only be the players out of contract or returned loans I would imagine.

Of the players out of contract I’d work hard to keep Clifton. That’s not based on “one of our own bias” but the fact that played in the same role for a few games on the bang with a few better players around him he’s got something to offer. The rest can do one.

It's no good replacing anybody unless they are an upgrade.

We need experience and pace and some players who will motivate others when things go wrong.

Tharme yesterday did nothing to suggest he has got any of the qualities we need at the back - he looked far too lightweight and the Hull loanee ditto.

I so want Artell to succeed as some of the football played has been sublime, but if we can only sign mediocre players I hope we can struggle on with what we have got till the summer when we have more budget.

Some things we can do with the existing squad to help grind out results - Amos and Glennon on the left together, Harry at right back and get Holohan and Vernam in the side.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

It's no good replacing anybody unless they are an upgrade.

We need experience and pace and some players who will motivate others when things go wrong.

Tharme yesterday did nothing to suggest he has got any of the qualities we need at the back - he looked far too lightweight and the Hull loanee ditto.

I so want Artell to succeed as some of the football played has been sublime, but if we can only sign mediocre players I hope we can struggle on with what we have got till the summer when we have more budget.

Some things we can do with the existing squad to help grind out results - Amos and Glennon on the left together, Harry at right back and get Holohan and Vernam in the side.

I’ll ask the question again, what have you seen in Clifton to suggest he’d be a good defensive right back?

Also how confident would you be that Glennon can double up with Amos to prevent opponents getting crosses in, I wouldn’t be, though that said anyone is better than Eisa when it comes to that part of the game as he’s a lazy sod.

They call all leave as far as I’m concerned bar Rose.

Quoted from davmariner

They call all leave as far as I’m concerned bar Rose.

I’d be interested to know how you’re proposing to pay off all the contracts.

Quoted from Corkyefes

I think we will just starve off relegation this season, as I think there will be two worse teams (We HAVE to beat Donny, Forest Green and Sutton).
But looking at the list of players, its absoultely frightenning the amount of players I would let go, or look to offload at the end of the season.

I think thats a big task for any manager and I think the owners need to get in their minds now, that the close season may cost them more money than they envisaged!

Is this the worst squad we've seen from Town in the last ten years? - Potentially is.

Goalkeepers
Harvey Cartwright - Think gets unfair critistim. Kept us in games and most goals havent been his fault. Would sign as backup.
Jake Eastwood - Not good enough. Offload.

Defenders
Danny Amos - Not good enough. Offload.
Michee Efete - Not good enough. Offload.
Anthony Glennon - Defensively very poor and a massive portion of goals conceeded have come down his side. Offload.
Niall Maher - Should only be kept as backup.
Toby Mullarkey - Defensively very poor and a massive portion of goals conceeded have come down his side. Offload.
Harvey Rodgers - One of the worst defenders I've seen.
Doug Tharme - Too early to judge.

Midfielders
Callum Ainley - No comment except get well soon.
Jamie Andrews - Goes absent in games too many times. Don't attempt to sign.
Aaron Braithwaite - No comment
Jamie Bramwell - No comment
Harry Clifton - Not the same player as last couple of seasons. Unfortunatley it was maybe time for him to move on last summer when we had 'rumoured' interest.
Kieran Green - Not good enough. Offload.
Gavan Holohan - Unfortunatley offload at the end of the season. Been a good player but now becoming to inconsistant.
Alex Hunt - Not good enough. Offload.
Otis Khan - Not good enough. Let contract run out.
Evan Khouri - Needs a 6 month loan to see how he gets on.
Charles Vernam - He needs to prove what he can offer towards end of the season.
Harry Wood - To early to assess, but IF it was just based on yesterday, i would'nt attempt to sign.
Arthur Gnahoua - Not good enough. Offload.

Forwards
Abo Eisa - Offer a new 1 year contact, but needs to be more consistant.
Edwin Essel - No comment, but assume he will be released.
Cameron Gardner - No comment, but I dont see him breaking into the team this season.
Justin Obikwu - Too early to judge.
Rekeil Pyke - Hardly available. Offload.
Danny Rose - Keep. The only shining light of a poor season.
Harvey Tomlinson - No comment, but assume he will be released.
Donovan Wilson - Hardly available. Offload.

Totally agree with every one of them , you are a very good judge and talk sense.

You know things are bad when the appraisals start

Quoted from MuddyWaters

I’d be interested to know how you’re proposing to pay off all the contracts.

Hopefully, some other mug can take them off our hands. That FA Cup money has been well and truly pīsséd up the wall.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

I’d be interested to know how you’re proposing to pay off all the contracts.

Well quite a large chunk of them are out of contract in June. But as another poster has said, make them all available. Most will be in the last year of their contract so even just sitting on it for a year isn’t going to do their future prospects any good.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

I’d be interested to know how you’re proposing to pay off all the contracts.

You only pay the contracts off if you release a player. The idea is to lean on them to find another club off their own back so they continue with a contract/pay at their next club

A three year contract for Harvey Rodgers is absolutely mind blowing. I would imagine he’s being paid quite well too. Hopefully Hurst can do us a favour and make that mistake again by taking him off our hands but I doubt it.

Quoted from supertown

Is that a squad of 3 you are left with 😬

Yes. Thats how bad i think this squad is.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

I’d be interested to know how you’re proposing to pay off all the contracts.

Theres only the following players in contract come the end of June...

Eastwood, Mullarkey, Rodgers, Tharme, Hunt, Vernam, Gardner, Pyke, Rose, Wilson.
All the others are out of contract.

I would be telling every one of them barring Rose and Gardner that they are free to find another club.
Vernam and Tharme would have till the end of the season to prove themselves.

This is terrible recruitment considering 15 of our current squad wasnt here last season!

Don’t understand the mullarkey signing, the guy is clearly more focused on building his social media platforms and his personal training business.
The sooner we find his replacement the better.

Quoted from Corkyefes

I think we will just starve off relegation this season, as I think there will be two worse teams (We HAVE to beat Donny, Forest Green and Sutton).
But looking at the list of players, its absoultely frightenning the amount of players I would let go, or look to offload at the end of the season.

Goalkeepers
Harvey Cartwright - Think gets unfair critistim. Kept us in games and most goals havent been his fault. Would sign as backup.
Jake Eastwood - Not good enough. Offload.

Defenders
Danny Amos - Not good enough. Offload.
Michee Efete - Not good enough. Offload.
Anthony Glennon - Defensively very poor and a massive portion of goals conceeded have come down his side. Offload.
Niall Maher - Should only be kept as backup.
Toby Mullarkey - Defensively very poor and a massive portion of goals conceeded have come down his side. Offload.
Harvey Rodgers - One of the worst defenders I've seen.
Doug Tharme - Too early to judge.

Midfielders
Callum Ainley - No comment except get well soon.
Jamie Andrews - Goes absent in games too many times. Don't attempt to sign.
Aaron Braithwaite - No comment
Jamie Bramwell - No comment
Harry Clifton - Not the same player as last couple of seasons. Unfortunatley it was maybe time for him to move on last summer when we had 'rumoured' interest.
Kieran Green - Not good enough. Offload.
Gavan Holohan - Unfortunatley offload at the end of the season. Been a good player but now becoming to inconsistant.
Alex Hunt - Not good enough. Offload.
Otis Khan - Not good enough. Let contract run out.
Evan Khouri - Needs a 6 month loan to see how he gets on.
Charles Vernam - He needs to prove what he can offer towards end of the season.
Harry Wood - To early to assess, but IF it was just based on yesterday, i would'nt attempt to sign.
Arthur Gnahoua - Not good enough. Offload.

Forwards
Abo Eisa - Offer a new 1 year contact, but needs to be more consistant.
Edwin Essel - No comment, but assume he will be released.
Cameron Gardner - No comment, but I dont see him breaking into the team this season.
Justin Obikwu - Too early to judge.
Rekeil Pyke - Hardly available. Offload.
Danny Rose - Keep. The only shining light of a poor season.
Harvey Tomlinson - No comment, but assume he will be released.
Donovan Wilson - Hardly available. Offload.

I think the only things I would change is I'd keep Gav and maybe Arthur as a back ups and I wouldn't send Khouri out on loan I'd keep him because before he got this lkng term injury he was looking good.

Quoted from Neilo83

Don’t understand the mullarkey signing, the guy is clearly more focused on building his social media platforms and his personal training business.
The sooner we find his replacement the better.

I don’t understand it either, average NL defender in a mid table side who played a dozen games in a p1ss poor Rochdale side that got relegated to the NL. I’d be interested to see what data told us there.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

I don’t understand it either, average NL defender in a mid table side who played a dozen games in a p1ss poor Rochdale side that got relegated to the NL. I’d be interested to see what data told us there.

He wasn't a data signing he was a Hurst signing, he was trying to sign him even before Hutchinson arrived wasn't he.

He actually looked good pre season but he's been fairly shite once the real stuff kicked in

Quoted from Corkyefes

I think we will just starve off relegation this season, as I think there will be two worse teams (We HAVE to beat Donny, Forest Green and Sutton).
But looking at the list of players, its absoultely frightenning the amount of players I would let go, or look to offload at the end of the season.

I think thats a big task for any manager and I think the owners need to get in their minds now, that the close season may cost them more money than they envisaged!

Is this the worst squad we've seen from Town in the last ten years? - Potentially is.

Goalkeepers
Harvey Cartwright - Think gets unfair critistim. Kept us in games and most goals havent been his fault. Would sign as backup.
Jake Eastwood - Not good enough. Offload.

Defenders
Danny Amos - Not good enough. Offload.
Michee Efete - Not good enough. Offload.
Anthony Glennon - Defensively very poor and a massive portion of goals conceeded have come down his side. Offload.
Niall Maher - Should only be kept as backup.
Toby Mullarkey - Defensively very poor and a massive portion of goals conceeded have come down his side. Offload.
Harvey Rodgers - One of the worst defenders I've seen.
Doug Tharme - Too early to judge.

Midfielders
Callum Ainley - No comment except get well soon.
Jamie Andrews - Goes absent in games too many times. Don't attempt to sign.
Aaron Braithwaite - No comment
Jamie Bramwell - No comment
Harry Clifton - Not the same player as last couple of seasons. Unfortunatley it was maybe time for him to move on last summer when we had 'rumoured' interest.
Kieran Green - Not good enough. Offload.
Gavan Holohan - Unfortunatley offload at the end of the season. Been a good player but now becoming to inconsistant.
Alex Hunt - Not good enough. Offload.
Otis Khan - Not good enough. Let contract run out.
Evan Khouri - Needs a 6 month loan to see how he gets on.
Charles Vernam - He needs to prove what he can offer towards end of the season.
Harry Wood - To early to assess, but IF it was just based on yesterday, i would'nt attempt to sign.
Arthur Gnahoua - Not good enough. Offload.

Forwards
Abo Eisa - Offer a new 1 year contact, but needs to be more consistant.
Edwin Essel - No comment, but assume he will be released.
Cameron Gardner - No comment, but I dont see him breaking into the team this season.
Justin Obikwu - Too early to judge.
Rekeil Pyke - Hardly available. Offload.
Danny Rose - Keep. The only shining light of a poor season.
Harvey Tomlinson - No comment, but assume he will be released.
Donovan Wilson - Hardly available. Offload.

Probably the most verbose post of the season. Hats off

Quoted from sonofmadeleymariner

I think the only things I would change is I'd keep Gav and maybe Arthur as a back ups and I wouldn't send Khouri out on loan I'd keep him because before he got this lkng term injury he was looking good.

Maybe agree with you on keeping Gav as backup, but for Gnahoua I would have to disagree with you completely.
0 goals and 1 assist in 19 league games (averaging 58 minutes playing time per game), is absolutely dire for a winger.

Quoted from Corkyefes

Maybe agree with you on keeping Gav as backup, but for Gnahoua I would have to disagree with you completely.
0 goals and 1 assist in 19 league games (averaging 58 minutes playing time), is absolutely dire for a winger.

Yet some of our best performances have involved Arthur. He certainly works a damn sight harder than Eisa.

Davies , Pearson, Croudson out now please

Quoted from It Bites

Davies , Pearson, Croudson out now please

Absolutely with you on this, DA should've been given a clean slate to work with, I honestly think the biggest faux pas by the owners is showing loyalty to 3 coaches who were part of the coaching staff that had us playing the most boring, anti football I've seen.
To tell a manager (head coach) "heres your tools, oh and you have to use those blunt chisels to carve out a chippendale" was wrong, that should never, ever have been their call to make

Players coming in should improve us. I think that is the general idea whoever is in charge, if like us you have a great fan base, good income, a proud history and have had a couple of good years.

I have rarely been less impressed by the the two new players who started on Saturday. Tharme and Wood I thought were so below average it took the mickey.

We desperately need some proper money spending to get us back on track. It is ludicrous to think we can become sustainable at this point of our development. I personally think the owners have put several carts before several horses but understand what they are trying to eventually achieve.

Every lower league club wants to be the next Brighton, but you need to put the football front and centre of everything until the football world stops seeing you as perpetual strugglers.

I think the owners have been a bit naive. Players move for money and prospects. You won't entice better players by being nice people or have particular values or whatever.

Are we ever going to get new investment to give us a kick start?

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

Absolutely with you on this, DA should've been given a clean slate to work with, I honestly think the biggest faux pas by the owners is showing loyalty to 3 coaches who were part of the coaching staff that had us playing the most boring, anti football I've seen.
To tell a manager (head coach) "heres your tools, oh and you have to use those blunt chisels to carve out a chippendale" was wrong, that should never, ever have been their call to make

Yeah but no but …

Shaun was a player then a scout & coach in development up until Hurst leaving.

Everyone raves about how good Crocombe was, you’re the one who’s already identified the link between coaching & performance. So Steve could have contributed to that.

Can’t comment on Ben but as interim we did look a bit more organised & robust.

I do agree that if you want to keep players on their toes maybe there’s something in removing familiarity and putting them in a place where they have to earn the respect of the coaches to get picked

Quoted from jamesgtfc

Hopefully, some other mug can take them off our hands. That FA Cup money has been well and truly pīsséd up the wall.

Has it? From the players arriving this season I'd argue only Rodgers and Mullarkey have been poor additions. We signed Conteh who has rather quickly made us what must be a profit and chance of future earnings, so no money lost there infact money made.

The players further up the pitch have been decent enough, with Rose been exceptional. Wilson/Pykle when playing have had an impact. Eisa has scored a few and been dangerous in patches - needs to make that more often and Vernam it would be unfair to comment on as has spent along time injured.

Issue for me is we may have tried to over correct. Last season we didn't score or create as much, but did ok relatively speaking in defence - it's the exact opposite this year. It's telling that we've almost scored more than we did last season playing 18 games less but have conceded more than we did last season.

I can't help feel the issues this year stem from players already here not pulling their weight or taking a backward step. Maher, Waterfall, Clifton, Green, Holohan, Khan, Hunt etc etc.

In terms of who to keep;

Firstly the one that I might get pelters for - Glennon. Had issues defensively but had really improved when coming back in around the time Shaun and Ben took charge, with a couple of MOTM performances. If you sort out the major defensive issues we have, his attacking threat and ability far and above makes up for any deficiencies in defence. Think we have 3/4 players back there that are a bigger problem. I know many will disagree, but just my opinion.

Rose, Vernam, Clifton, Wilson, Pyke, Eisa, Khouri might be about it though for players, at the moment, i'd want to keep. A few others could improve or be decent back up's but i'm not convinced.

Quoted from Mikey_345

Has it? From the players arriving this season I'd argue only Rodgers and Mullarkey have been poor additions. We signed Conteh who has rather quickly made us what must be a profit and chance of future earnings, so no money lost there infact money made.

The players further up the pitch have been decent enough, with Rose been exceptional. Wilson/Pykle when playing have had an impact. Eisa has scored a few and been dangerous in patches - needs to make that more often and Vernam it would be unfair to comment on as has spent along time injured.

Issue for me is we may have tried to over correct. Last season we didn't score or create as much, but did ok relatively speaking in defence - it's the exact opposite this year. It's telling that we've almost scored more than we did last season playing 18 games less but have conceded more than we did last season.

I can't help feel the issues this year stem from players already here not pulling their weight or taking a backward step. Maher, Waterfall, Clifton, Green, Holohan, Khan, Hunt etc etc.

In terms of who to keep;

Firstly the one that I might get pelters for - Glennon. Had issues defensively but had really improved when coming back in around the time Shaun and Ben took charge, with a couple of MOTM performances. If you sort out the major defensive issues we have, his attacking threat and ability far and above makes up for any deficiencies in defence. Think we have 3/4 players back there that are a bigger problem. I know many will disagree, but just my opinion.

Rose, Vernam, Clifton, Wilson, Pyke, Eisa, Khouri might be about it though for players, at the moment, i'd want to keep. A few others could improve or be decent back up's but i'm not convinced.

Yes, it has been pïsséd up the wall because here we are at the end of January joint third bottom of League 2. That money should have been used to kick on, not go backwards!

Quoted from jamesgtfc

Yes, it has been pïsséd up the wall because here we are at the end of January joint third bottom of League 2. That money should have been used to kick on, not go backwards!

But as I say, I don’t think we can other than the two defenders say any of the others were a waste. You can argue maybe more needed spending or in different areas, I can get on board with that but only 2 players haven’t worked imo.

Quoted from Mikey_345

But as I say, I don’t think we can other than the two defenders say any of the others were a waste. You can argue maybe more needed spending or in different areas, I can get on board with that but only 2 players haven’t worked imo.

Joint third bottom after 28 games suggests it's a lot more than 2 signings that haven't worked. This week is huge, and I just pray that we sign some quality.

Quoted from jamesgtfc

Joint third bottom after 28 games suggests it's a lot more than 2 signings that haven't worked. This week is huge, and I just pray that we sign some quality.

That isn’t totally invalid, however I think it looks at things in the round instead of drilling down into specifics.

Is the team good enough as a whole, no.
Are the players we brought in, in the forward areas and midfield (just Conteh) good enough - looks like it.

Conteh already made us money, so not a waste. Rose has been fantastic, not a waste. Others have also been decent enough or like Vernam unlucky with an injury but has looked good when he’s back.

Our issue is fundamentally with the defence and ability in the centre now Contehs gone. The players further forward where we spent most of the money, are fine. Players that have been brought in in defence or were here last year is the issue in my opinion so I can’t get on board with the wasting money argument.

Quoted from Corkyefes

I think we will just starve off relegation this season, as I think there will be two worse teams (We HAVE to beat Donny, Forest Green and Sutton).
But looking at the list of players, its absoultely frightenning the amount of players I would let go, or look to offload at the end of the season.

I think thats a big task for any manager and I think the owners need to get in their minds now, that the close season may cost them more money than they envisaged!

Is this the worst squad we've seen from Town in the last ten years? - Potentially is.

Goalkeepers
Harvey Cartwright - Think gets unfair critistim. Kept us in games and most goals havent been his fault. Would sign as backup.
Jake Eastwood - Not good enough. Offload.

Defenders
Danny Amos - Not good enough. Offload.
Michee Efete - Not good enough. Offload.
Anthony Glennon - Defensively very poor and a massive portion of goals conceeded have come down his side. Offload.
Niall Maher - Should only be kept as backup.
Toby Mullarkey - Defensively very poor and a massive portion of goals conceeded have come down his side. Offload.
Harvey Rodgers - One of the worst defenders I've seen.
Doug Tharme - Too early to judge.

Midfielders
Callum Ainley - No comment except get well soon.
Jamie Andrews - Goes absent in games too many times. Don't attempt to sign.
Aaron Braithwaite - No comment
Jamie Bramwell - No comment
Harry Clifton - Not the same player as last couple of seasons. Unfortunatley it was maybe time for him to move on last summer when we had 'rumoured' interest.
Kieran Green - Not good enough. Offload.
Gavan Holohan - Unfortunatley offload at the end of the season. Been a good player but now becoming to inconsistant.
Alex Hunt - Not good enough. Offload.
Otis Khan - Not good enough. Let contract run out.
Evan Khouri - Needs a 6 month loan to see how he gets on.
Charles Vernam - He needs to prove what he can offer towards end of the season.
Harry Wood - To early to assess, but IF it was just based on yesterday, i would'nt attempt to sign.
Arthur Gnahoua - Not good enough. Offload.

Forwards
Abo Eisa - Offer a new 1 year contact, but needs to be more consistant.
Edwin Essel - No comment, but assume he will be released.
Cameron Gardner - No comment, but I dont see him breaking into the team this season.
Justin Obikwu - Too early to judge.
Rekeil Pyke - Hardly available. Offload.
Danny Rose - Keep. The only shining light of a poor season.
Harvey Tomlinson - No comment, but assume he will be released.
Donovan Wilson - Hardly available. Offload.

So, in other words, PH put a crap squad together last summer, less a couple of individuals. He proceeded to get us into the lower third of the league, paid the price in getting sacked and we now expect DA , with a limited transfer window, to turn things around and " make a silk purse out of a sows ear".

What's the chances we'll keep Rose at the end of the season?

Quoted from Ruston AT

What's the chances we'll keep Rose at the end of the season?

Bet he has a release contract if we are relegated
He has been tremendous and if he goes we are doomed.

To say DA is a defender he doesn’t know how to set up a defence to me he doesn’t look interested and just going through the motions until he’s sacked.
It was a massive mistake not letting him bring a number 2 with him.

Quoted from Yoda

To say DA is a defender he doesn’t know how to set up a defence to me he doesn’t look interested and just going through the motions until he’s sacked.
It was a massive mistake not letting him bring a number 2 with him.

Isn't there a rock you need to climb back under FFS..

Quoted from Yoda

To say DA is a defender he doesn’t know how to set up a defence to me he doesn’t look interested and just going through the motions until he’s sacked.
It was a massive mistake not letting him bring a number 2 with him.

That was his big mistake. He needs 2 or 3 people at the club he can trust

Quoted from It Bites

That was his big mistake. He needs 2 or 3 people at the club he can trust

I'm wondering if it was actually his choice, or he was told that was the terms of the deal. If it's the latter, that ain't really helping us dig our way out of this excrement.

Quoted from AncientExiledMariner

I'm wondering if it was actually his choice, or he was told that was the terms of the deal. If it's the ladder, that ain't really helping us dig our way out of this excrement.

Jason Stockwood confirmed that Pearson and Davies staying on was a non negotiable term of any contract, a move which at the time was universally met with approval

Quoted from Ruston AT

What's the chances we'll keep Rose at the end of the season?

I said a couple of days ago he is not happy, by Thursday all his car sharing pals will be gone, Hunt is only one who remains at the minute.

He will remain professional, however he is looking for an out at the earliest opportunity, disillusioned with everything.

Quoted from Yoda

To say DA is a defender he doesn’t know how to set up a defence to me he doesn’t look interested and just going through the motions until he’s sacked.
It was a massive mistake not letting him bring a number 2 with him.

Why was it?

Quoted from male private Nale

I said a couple of days ago he is not happy, by Thursday all his car sharing pals will be gone, Hunt is only one who remains at the minute.

He will remain professional, however he is looking for an out at the earliest opportunity, disillusioned with everything.

Whatever.....

Quoted from male private Nale

I said a couple of days ago he is not happy, by Thursday all his car sharing pals will be gone, Hunt is only one who remains at the minute.

He will remain professional, however he is looking for an out at the earliest opportunity, disillusioned with everything.

He's gone from a promotion-winning side to a squad full of raffle winners. Who wouldn't be disillusioned with that?

Can’t say too much but I think it’s evident that folk are finding it hard to understand what Artell wants and means.
Some managers talk too much. I understand the owners wanting to bring in someone of a particular type - with a set of values and preferred model etc, but it’s not coming across clearly in key aspects, for whatever reason. I do know that there was massive support and solid morale behind SP.

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

Whatever.....

Thank you for the time and effort to respond.

Quoted from Poojah

He's gone from a promotion-winning side to a squad full of raffle winners. Who wouldn't be disillusioned with that?

He came here with his eyes wide open, he wasn't thinking another promotion push was on the cards but his contract was decent and he was home every night.

Fast forward 6 months, he will soon be commuting on his own daily and he has been at loggerheads with coaches over what is expected of him that he isn't already doing.

Its like any other contractor in the UK when the job gets excrement you look put the feelers out.

Be surprised if rose does go but apparantly it's not an happy camp but neither should it be it's about winning games of football & we not doing it so be disagreements & arguements for sure

Quoted from male private Nale

I said a couple of days ago he is not happy, by Thursday all his car sharing pals will be gone, Hunt is only one who remains at the minute.

He will remain professional, however he is looking for an out at the earliest opportunity, disillusioned with everything.

Surely the data allows for car sharing arrangements

I have it on good authority that Danny Rose is big into true crime podcasts and can't wait to do the drive on his own to catch up on them without having to listen to Alex Hunt going on about Eastenders all journey.

Quoted from rancido

So, in other words, PH put a crap squad together last summer, less a couple of individuals. He proceeded to get us into the lower third of the league, paid the price in getting sacked and we now expect DA , with a limited transfer window, to turn things around and " make a silk purse out of a sows ear".

Exactly my point, DA deserves criticism for his lack of flexibility in approach but this squad is poor and Paul Hurst has had a nightmare. I think PH is a good manager, on this occasion he screwed up badly in recruitment and DA has to find a way to keep us up. He needs to be pragmatic as we have been pitiful at home in recent weeks

Quoted from Zmariner

I think PH is a good manager, on this occasion he screwed up badly in recruitment

This is a very simple observation, and equally one that’s very hard to argue against, and yet there are so many questions to unpack from it.

We know a lot about Paul Hurst as a manager. 468 of his 723 games of his managerial career were in the Town dugout. That’s a lot of football. Yes, we know his foibles, but we also know what he was reliably good at.

And one of those things, in general, was recruitment. We can point to some iffiness in the 2021 January window, but it’s never easy when you’re doing that kind of distressed business (as we are now, incidentally). If you were to go through all of his signings for Town, there will be overwhelmingly more in the “outstanding” and “very good” columns than the “awful” and “very bad” ones. And let’s not forget some of the fantastic players he brought to the club even during the much maligned Fenty-era. The Hurst / Fenty XI is still a side we’d all pay to watch, I’m sure.

He managed to build the promotion winning squad of 21/22 almost entirely from scratch. Only Clifton, Waterfall, McKeown and Scannell weren’t his signings, and most of them were made following our relegation. Even when things started to get sticky that season, he managed to pluck the likes of Cropper, Maguire-Drew, Holohan and Dieseruvwe out of absolutely nowhere, and look how vital each and every one of them were in that play-off campaign. Those play-offs marked a perfect end to an imperfect season, but Hurst’s recruitment that year was impeccable and profoundly prescient.

To then build a squad capable of playing League Two football again in the space of less than 5 weeks; a squad that would go on to record its highest league finish in 17 years as well as our greatest cup run since 1939 (and arguably even greater in terms of over-performance) deserves immense credit. Yes, those transfer windows were at times frustrating, and the football at home was often not a great watch, but those achievements are cast iron facts.

Then you get to this summer. He had every advantage over the previous year by far. More money. More time. A significant restoration of the club’s reputation. A larger back room team, replete with recruitment specialist, and data coming out of his árse.

But then what happens? It’s a complete disaster. Yes, there are positives. Rose and Conteh have proven themselves. Eisa, too, has had his moments. But as a collective, it’s such a remarkable backwards step it’s hard to wrap your head around. Artell’s own recent struggles with the players at his disposal also rather serves to underline that the issue wasn’t so much Hurst’s inability to get the most from the squad, but the squad itself.

The macro question is why this happened, but there are so many potential variables it’s hard to know where to start. Had Hurst simply just lost the plot? Or is there something deeper going on?

- Was he asked / told to alter his approach in order to switch to a seemingly more attractive style of play?

- Did he have some degree of recruitment responsibility taken away from him?

- Was there an over reliance on data (or just the use of flawed data that led to the wrong conclusions)?

- Was the budget actually not as big as we might anticipate, because of work that had to be done elsewhere (e.g. vital ground improvements)?

- Did Hurst take his eye off the ball after being approached by Shrewsbury in the summer (as alluded to by some Shrews fans last week)?

- Was it a combination of the above, or some other conspiracy theory?

I’ll be completely honest; I wasn’t so much excited by the signings we made back in the summer, but rather the manner we went about it. Hurst seemed to be getting his primary targets, quickly, and the squad was largely there by mid-July. If they were good enough for him, they were good enough me. Jon Nolan taught me never to doubt the man.

Only this time I should have doubted him, in hindsight. But it still doesn’t make sense to me. There are just so many unknowns between the lines of the question “how did the normally so reliable Paul Hurst get it so catastrophically wrong?”. For all of the apparent ITK types currently frequenting the forum, I don’t think I’ve seen an attempt to articulately explain it.

Quoted from Poojah

This is a very simple observation, and equally one that’s very hard to argue against, and yet there are so many questions to unpack from it.

We know a lot about Paul Hurst as a manager. 468 of his 723 games of his managerial career were in the Town dugout. That’s a lot of football. Yes, we know his foibles, but we also know what he was reliably good at.

And one of those things, in general, was recruitment. We can point to some iffiness in the 2022 January window, but it’s never easy when you’re doing that kind of distressed business (as we are now, incidentally). If you were to go through all of his signings for Town, there will be overwhelmingly more in the “outstanding” and “very good” columns than the “awful” and “very bad” ones. And let’s not forget some of the fantastic players he brought to the club even during the much maligned Fenty-era. The Hurst / Fenty XI is still a side we’d all pay to watch, I’m sure.

He managed to build the promotion winning squad of 21/22 almost entirely from scratch. Only Clifton, Waterfall, McKeown weren’t his signings, and most of them were made following our relegation. Even when things started to get sticky that season, he managed to pluck the likes of Cropper, Maguire-Drew, Holohan and Dieseruvwe out of absolutely nowhere, and look how vital each and every one of them were in that play-off campaign. Those play-offs marked a perfect end to an imperfect season, but Hurst’s recruitment that year was impeccable and profoundly prescient.

To then build a squad capable of playing League Two football again in the space of less than 5 weeks; a squad that would go on to record its highest league finish in 17 years as well as our greatest cup run since 1939 (and arguably even greater in terms of over-performance) deserves immense credit. Yes, those transfer windows were at times frustrating, and the football at home was often not a great watch, but those achievements are cast iron facts.

Then you get to this summer. He had every advantage over the previous year by far. More money. More time. A significant restoration of the club’s reputation. A larger back room team, replete with recruitment specialist, and data coming out of his árse.

But then what happens? It’s a complete disaster. Yes, there are positives. Rose and Conteh have proven themselves. Eisa, too, has had his moments. But as a collective, it’s such a remarkable backwards step it’s hard to wrap your head around. Artell’s own recent struggles with the players at his disposal also rather serve to underline that the issue wasn’t so much Hurst’s inability to get the most from the squad, but the squad itself.

The macro question is why this happened, but there are so many potential variables it’s hard to know where to start. Had Hurst simply just lost the plot? Or is there something deeper going on?

- Was he asked / told to alter his approach in order to switch to a seemingly more attractive style of play? That's what I wondered - it went from 'the football side is down to the manager ' to 'we want to do it the Grimsby way ' and have an identity in 6 months

- Did he have some degree of recruitment responsibility taken away from him? Don't think so , if so only a minimal amount of players

- Was there an over reliance on data (or just the use of flawed data that led to the wrong conclusions)? No IMO because most of the recruits were 'Hursts' players barring Conteh and maybe 1 or 2 others - data was irrelevant .

- Was the budget actually not as big as we might anticipate, because of work that had to be done elsewhere (e.g. vital ground improvements)? Possibly

- Did Hurst take his eye off the ball after being approached by Shrewsbury in the summer (as alluded to by some Shrews fans last week)? No IMO

- Was it a combination of the above, or other conspiracy theory?
No cospiracy theory here , I think he's a better manager with less resource and maybe the thinking /allignment of what direction the board wanted to take the playing style didn't match well with Hurst's style of football . Although I thought we started the season relatvely well in terms of the football we played , he tried to revert to type (albeit with more technical players who were not capable of Hurstball ) , which didn't work . I think if he had stuck with it as the start of the season we may have fared better .The goalkeeper recruitment was strange .

I’ll be completely honest; I wasn’t so much excited by the signings we made back in the summer, but rather the manner we went about it. Hurst seemed to be getting his primary targets, quickly, and the squad was largely there by mid-July. If they were good enough for him, they were good enough me. Jon Nolan taught me never to doubt the man.

Only this time I should have doubted him, in hindsight. But it still doesn’t make sense to me. There are just so many unknowns between the lines of the question “how did the normal so reliable Paul Hurst get it so catastrophically wrong?”. For all of the apparent ITK types currently frequenting the forum, I don’t think I’ve seen an attempt to articulately explain it.

Quoted from Mappers

Insightful

Quoted from Poojah

This is a very simple observation, and equally one that’s very hard to argue against, and yet there are so many questions to unpack from it.

We know a lot about Paul Hurst as a manager. 468 of his 723 games of his managerial career were in the Town dugout. That’s a lot of football. Yes, we know his foibles, but we also know what he was reliably good at.

And one of those things, in general, was recruitment. We can point to some iffiness in the 2021 January window, but it’s never easy when you’re doing that kind of distressed business (as we are now, incidentally). If you were to go through all of his signings for Town, there will be overwhelmingly more in the “outstanding” and “very good” columns than the “awful” and “very bad” ones. And let’s not forget some of the fantastic players he brought to the club even during the much maligned Fenty-era. The Hurst / Fenty XI is still a side we’d all pay to watch, I’m sure.

He managed to build the promotion winning squad of 21/22 almost entirely from scratch. Only Clifton, Waterfall, McKeown weren’t his signings, and most of them were made following our relegation. Even when things started to get sticky that season, he managed to pluck the likes of Cropper, Maguire-Drew, Holohan and Dieseruvwe out of absolutely nowhere, and look how vital each and every one of them were in that play-off campaign. Those play-offs marked a perfect end to an imperfect season, but Hurst’s recruitment that year was impeccable and profoundly prescient.

To then build a squad capable of playing League Two football again in the space of less than 5 weeks; a squad that would go on to record its highest league finish in 17 years as well as our greatest cup run since 1939 (and arguably even greater in terms of over-performance) deserves immense credit. Yes, those transfer windows were at times frustrating, and the football at home was often not a great watch, but those achievements are cast iron facts.

Then you get to this summer. He had every advantage over the previous year by far. More money. More time. A significant restoration of the club’s reputation. A larger back room team, replete with recruitment specialist, and data coming out of his árse.

But then what happens? It’s a complete disaster. Yes, there are positives. Rose and Conteh have proven themselves. Eisa, too, has had his moments. But as a collective, it’s such a remarkable backwards step it’s hard to wrap your head around. Artell’s own recent struggles with the players at his disposal also rather serve to underline that the issue wasn’t so much Hurst’s inability to get the most from the squad, but the squad itself.

The macro question is why this happened, but there are so many potential variables it’s hard to know where to start. Had Hurst simply just lost the plot? Or is there something deeper going on?

- Was he asked / told to alter his approach in order to switch to a seemingly more attractive style of play?

- Did he have some degree of recruitment responsibility taken away from him?

- Was there an over reliance on data (or just the use of flawed data that led to the wrong conclusions)?

- Was the budget actually not as big as we might anticipate, because of work that had to be done elsewhere (e.g. vital ground improvements)?

- Did Hurst take his eye off the ball after being approached by Shrewsbury in the summer (as alluded to by some Shrews fans last week)?

- Was it a combination of the above, or other conspiracy theory?

I’ll be completely honest; I wasn’t so much excited by the signings we made back in the summer, but rather the manner we went about it. Hurst seemed to be getting his primary targets, quickly, and the squad was largely there by mid-July. If they were good enough for him, they were good enough me. Jon Nolan taught me never to doubt the man.

Only this time I should have doubted him, in hindsight. But it still doesn’t make sense to me. There are just so many unknowns between the lines of the question “how did the normal so reliable Paul Hurst get it so catastrophically wrong?”. For all of the apparent ITK types currently frequenting the forum, I don’t think I’ve seen an attempt to articulately explain it.

Great post btw .

I agree something is wrong behind the scenes for PH to intercourse up so bad in a window . A relegated GK and Defender was never the best place to build a team from . Eisa is lazy and Gnoua and Ainley ( GWS) seemed like panick additions . I don’t think there is much money available for the team and I also think the owners won’t be devastated if we go down ?

Quoted from male private Nale

He came here with his eyes wide open, he wasn't thinking another promotion push was on the cards but his contract was decent and he was home every night.

Fast forward 6 months, he will soon be commuting on his own daily and he has been at loggerheads with coaches over what is expected of him that he isn't already doing.

Its like any other contractor in the UK when the job gets excrement you look put the feelers out.

Really? You seem to be heavily ITK, perhaps you could tell us who we are going to sign before the end of the window too?

It's not based on insight but more observational.  The only thing I could possibly suggest occurred for Hurst to get it so wrong was that he was caught in a crossroads between his style and the style 1878 wanted.

I don't think it's a secret that the summer remit for Hurst was to change tact.  Go for a brand of football that would be our trademark moving forward.  That's his job card. Fine, most jobs have them.  This is what we expect, crack on and we'll monitor the progress.

Great, so he's got his objective and he sets about bringing in players who will fit that approach.  In some instances working with Joe Hutchinson, Conteh for example.  But he doesn't go all in on it.  He reverts to type.  He wanted Mullarkey before so he goes back for him too.  He's worked with Eisa and liked him, he goes back for him.  Just two examples, do they fit this new approach we had.  Conteh did, I think Rose did (although he's just one of those players that will have sat on everyone's radar), early on in the season I thought Rodgers did because he looked calm as hell on the ball (Christ, that feels a long time ago!).

But this mismatch left an awful balance.  With the exception of the first handful of games it's looked disjointed ever since, now with hindsight I think perhaps it was more a case that everyone else was still finding their feet too.  Hurst always built his teams some crucial elements; stability, shape and trust.  Within that he would have the odd maverick type.  Your Scott Neilson, Jordan Maguire-Drew and now Abo Eisa.  Players with a big of magic in their boots who he could and at times would indulge enough to warrant their lack of stability, shape and trust.

This season he went against that total approach, but worst of all he didn't commit to a particular style with his recruitment.  It's left us wanting in key areas.  The numbers are telling that the preferred back four under Hurst (and probably Artell) is Mullarkey, Glennon, Rodgers and Maher.   Yet there isn't a proper defender amongst them, Maher the most likely to take that mantle.  Not a chance in hell that a Paul Hurst approach leaves you in that position.

Hurst will rightly get the daggers for his recruitment last summer, which on an individual basis I agree with Mikey that wasn't that bad.  Rose was a fine addition, Conteh has made us money (and will make us more), Vernam I'm sure will come good, Eisa would normally have served as that maverick type... but collectively it's looking more and more a disaster.  But I think there has to be a glance towards 1878 for enforcing an approach under a manager who perhaps wasn't best placed to do it.  Of course it would have been absurd to part company with Hurst last summer.  But it might have proved more sensible to take this change of approach with an evolution as opposed to revolution way.

This all said, I think I've seen enough under Artell to suggest that the vast majority of these players can play in a more fluid style, especially when going forward.  It's the cutting out of stupid mistakes rather than anything that needs sorting.  We've cut out the majority of those awful and incredibly basic defending errors in the last month and we've picked up a lot more points, sit comfortably in mid-table and are clamouring for a bit more of this style of play Artell wants to enforce.

Two changes in defence and I think we're a different beast altogether.

Ultimately, the game on Saturday was terrible, but it took two awful pieces of defending from one player to gift them the goals. If we'd eked out a goalless draw or even nicked an undeserved winner, there would be a lot less catastrophising on the board, even with the appalling performance.

I've always had my reservations about Glennon Mk. II because of his lack of pace, even though he can be a decent player going forward, but he certainly seems to have the odd game (or spell) where his defending is utterly terrible. Saturday, a case in point as he simply got on the wrong side of the player for no apparent reason for the first goal then was a weak as urine (and in the wrong position) for the second.

I can't really think of an occasion where we've had such poor/unreliable defenders in both full-back positions for a very long time. You wouldn't have thought that Hurst would have got us into this position with those signings!

If the bloke from Gillingham does sign, you'd think that will help the defence to some degree because Mullarkey doesn't look like a natural defender to me, but we'll need to see Glennon hit some reasonable form defensively if he is going to remain first choice.

We were flying quite high at the beginning with Hurt's recruited players. If we had managed games better we could have held onto three points instead of going home with one or nowt. Even with the freefall, we wouldn't be looking over our shoulder now. The defenders have tried to play out of the back and somehow forgotten the basics. Surely, a fullback has to stop the ball coming into the box. We've let in so many soft goals - and that must demoralise the team. we even let lowly Slough put three past us. It's quite sad that I was so excited about this season but now just want to get through it.

I think Hurst generally overestimated his own ability to change the mindset and such a large group of players who had been recent failures elsewhere, based on the belief that they had some technical ability.

Eastwood - never done anything at 27 years old apart from making a string of catastrophic errors for a Rochdale side that were relegated to the conference last year. Persisted with him as no.1 until the day he got sacked

Rodgers - starting centre half at Accrington who finished second bottom of L1 last year

Mullarkey - relegated with Rochdale last year, only just crept over 100 matches total this season at age 28.

Glennon - not fancied by struggling Barrow, inconsistent last year

Vernam - noted chronic, less than 150 appearances at age 26/27 and mainly off the bench. Comes in - chronic.

Pyke - not fancied anywhere he’s been, inconsistent in every positions, never managed more than 5 or 6 in a season despite being signed as a centre forward

Ganouha/Wilson/Ainley all signed to play as part of this interchangeable lineup behind the striker. All inconsistent or injury prone to a certain extent.

That’s a lot of people to bring in and suddenly decide that you can change how they approach the game, turn them into a bunch of consistent, reliable winners when for most of their recent careers they have been inconsistent, unreliable losers. Might sound harsh but those are the facts.

Think he left himself too much to do and once you get into a habit of being not very good, and surrounded by players who are the same, it’s hard to drag yourself out of it.

There’s only Rose, Conteh and Eisa who have achieved anything close to the level which might’ve been expected of them.

Suppose you might make this argument about any of the players we bring in, that they’re inconsistent, but I don’t think we’ve ever set up a back 5 comprised entirely of people like that.

Quoted from It Bites

Great post btw .

I agree something is wrong behind the scenes for PH to intercourse up so bad in a window . A relegated GK and Defender was never the best place to build a team from . Eisa is lazy and Gnoua and Ainley ( GWS) seemed like panick additions . I don’t think there is much money available for the team and I also think the owners won’t be devastated if we go down ?

I mean, pretty much every word of that is just daft.

Quoted from ska face

I think Hurst generally overestimated his own ability to change the mindset and such a large group of players who had been recent failures elsewhere, based on the belief that they had some technical ability.

Eastwood - never done anything at 27 years old apart from making a string of catastrophic errors for a Rochdale side that were relegated to the conference last year. Persisted with him as no.1 until the day he got sacked

Rodgers - starting centre half at Accrington who finished second bottom of L1 last year

Mullarkey - relegated with Rochdale last year, only just crept over 100 matches total this season at age 28.

Glennon - not fancied by struggling Barrow, inconsistent last year

Vernam - noted chronic, less than 150 appearances at age 26/27 and mainly off the bench. Comes in - chronic.

Pyke - not fancied anywhere he’s been, inconsistent in every positions, never managed more than 5 or 6 in a season despite being signed as a centre forward

Ganouha/Wilson/Ainley all signed to play as part of this interchangeable lineup behind the striker. All inconsistent or injury prone to a certain extent.

That’s a lot of people to bring in and suddenly decide that you can change how they approach the game, turn them into a bunch of consistent, reliable winners when for most of their recent careers they have been inconsistent, unreliable losers. Might sound harsh but those are the facts.

Think he left himself too much to do and once you get into a habit of being not very good, and surrounded by players who are the same, it’s hard to drag yourself out of it.

There’s only Rose, Conteh and Eisa who have achieved anything close to the level which might’ve been expected of them.

Suppose you might make this argument about any of the players we bring in, that they’re inconsistent, but I don’t think we’ve ever set up a back 5 comprised entirely of people like that.

Completely agree.

I think one problem we also have is that when the highlights in the team have gone for various reasons, we've not brought in the players that could pull up an average team.

We had Taylor (age), McAtee (contract), Waterfall (age), Smith (loan), George Lloyd (loan), Crocombe (contract), Conteh (buy out clause) at various points. This has often papered over the cracks, but when we've lost these from the team, we failed to replace them and it's getting clear how distinctly average the rest of our squad has been. Between replacing those with less good versions, and trying to replace other average players with players with just as prominent flaws, it's really put us in a bind.

Yes, we knew about some of these, and yes we've tried. But it just hasn't panned out. You buy players you think will be better, but it's always a gamble, and we've been on the losing end of this recently. Usually you hope the options you pull in are mostly better, but the good ones were needed to plug huge gaping holes.

We never really build a competent league 2 team, just had a number of players artificially inflating where we actually where. We've to some extent stuffed it with loan talent to get through (Smith, Lloyd, Emmanuel).

Quoted from ska face

I think Hurst generally overestimated his own ability to change the mindset and such a large group of players who had been recent failures elsewhere, based on the belief that they had some technical ability.

Eastwood - never done anything at 27 years old apart from making a string of catastrophic errors for a Rochdale side that were relegated to the conference last year. Persisted with him as no.1 until the day he got sacked

Rodgers - starting centre half at Accrington who finished second bottom of L1 last year

Mullarkey - relegated with Rochdale last year, only just crept over 100 matches total this season at age 28.

Glennon - not fancied by struggling Barrow, inconsistent last year

Vernam - noted chronic, less than 150 appearances at age 26/27 and mainly off the bench. Comes in - chronic.

Pyke - not fancied anywhere he’s been, inconsistent in every positions, never managed more than 5 or 6 in a season despite being signed as a centre forward

Ganouha/Wilson/Ainley all signed to play as part of this interchangeable lineup behind the striker. All inconsistent or injury prone to a certain extent.

That’s a lot of people to bring in and suddenly decide that you can change how they approach the game, turn them into a bunch of consistent, reliable winners when for most of their recent careers they have been inconsistent, unreliable losers. Might sound harsh but those are the facts.

Think he left himself too much to do and once you get into a habit of being not very good, and surrounded by players who are the same, it’s hard to drag yourself out of it.

There’s only Rose, Conteh and Eisa who have achieved anything close to the level which might’ve been expected of them.

Suppose you might make this argument about any of the players we bring in, that they’re inconsistent, but I don’t think we’ve ever set up a back 5 comprised entirely of people like that.

Aye, that's a really good point.  Again, it goes against type of Hurst going down a 'safe' path.

Whenever you look at Hurst's successful recruitment, it's experience that he always went with.  Every version of the team's he's built here have had it at the core. People who know how to do what they do at the level they're at, with it pulling others along with them.

Not talking just about the teams that got promotion, more about bringing in players who were effect.  Of course there's the Disley types who were proven at levels above.  But the LJL's, the Nathan Arnold's, the Carl Magnay's, the Toto's, the Andy Monkhouse's, the Richard Tait's.  Those with a pedigree of doing at that level.   Second spell, the Ryan Taylor's even Shaun Pearson's return...all about getting in those with the know-how at that level.

Last summer it just largely feels (again, with hindsight) like too much of a gamble.  Rose aside, who was a sure thing?  None of them. Too many with too much to prove perhaps?

Quoted from Mayaman

We were flying quite high at the beginning with Hurt's recruited players. If we had managed games better we could have held onto three points instead of going home with one or nowt. Even with the freefall, we wouldn't be looking over our shoulder now. The defenders have tried to play out of the back and somehow forgotten the basics. Surely, a fullback has to stop the ball coming into the box. We've let in so many soft goals - and that must demoralise the team. we even let lowly Slough put three past us. It's quite sad that I was so excited about this season but now just want to get through it.

Absolutely true, if we'd won those games against Walsall, Bradford and Crawley, Hurst would still be here.

Quoted from Mariner_09

Absolutely true, if we'd won those games against Walsall, Bradford and Crawley, Hurst would still be here.

I wouldn't say we were " flying high" but those lost points were crucial to our situation.

Quoted from It Bites

Great post btw .

I agree something is wrong behind the scenes for PH to intercourse up so bad in a window . A relegated GK and Defender was never the best place to build a team from . Eisa is lazy and Gnoua and Ainley ( GWS) seemed like panick additions . I don’t think there is much money available for the team and I also think the owners won’t be devastated if we go down ?

Yeah I'm sure the owners will love the decrease in revenue and funding.

Quoted from ska face

I think Hurst generally overestimated his own ability to change the mindset and such a large group of players who had been recent failures elsewhere, based on the belief that they had some technical ability.

Eastwood - never done anything at 27 years old apart from making a string of catastrophic errors for a Rochdale side that were relegated to the conference last year. Persisted with him as no.1 until the day he got sacked

Rodgers - starting centre half at Accrington who finished second bottom of L1 last year

Mullarkey - relegated with Rochdale last year, only just crept over 100 matches total this season at age 28.

Glennon - not fancied by struggling Barrow, inconsistent last year

Vernam - noted chronic, less than 150 appearances at age 26/27 and mainly off the bench. Comes in - chronic.

Pyke - not fancied anywhere he’s been, inconsistent in every positions, never managed more than 5 or 6 in a season despite being signed as a centre forward

Ganouha/Wilson/Ainley all signed to play as part of this interchangeable lineup behind the striker. All inconsistent or injury prone to a certain extent.

That’s a lot of people to bring in and suddenly decide that you can change how they approach the game, turn them into a bunch of consistent, reliable winners when for most of their recent careers they have been inconsistent, unreliable losers. Might sound harsh but those are the facts.

Think he left himself too much to do and once you get into a habit of being not very good, and surrounded by players who are the same, it’s hard to drag yourself out of it.

There’s only Rose, Conteh and Eisa who have achieved anything close to the level which might’ve been expected of them.

Suppose you might make this argument about any of the players we bring in, that they’re inconsistent, but I don’t think we’ve ever set up a back 5 comprised entirely of people like that.

Good summary, although I’ve perhaps more reservations about Eisa, despite a great performance v Notts.

But isn’t this just Paul Hurst in nutshell - great at getting a moderately able players into a system and shape that delivers an uptick in performance and PPG. But when it comes to wholesale reshaping a squad with a bigger budget to get a major kick on in the clubs standing his shortcomings become apparent - as per Ipswich

Quoted from ska face

I think Hurst generally overestimated his own ability to change the mindset and such a large group of players who had been recent failures elsewhere, based on the belief that they had some technical ability.

Eastwood - never done anything at 27 years old apart from making a string of catastrophic errors for a Rochdale side that were relegated to the conference last year. Persisted with him as no.1 until the day he got sacked

Rodgers - starting centre half at Accrington who finished second bottom of L1 last year

Mullarkey - relegated with Rochdale last year, only just crept over 100 matches total this season at age 28.

Glennon - not fancied by struggling Barrow, inconsistent last year

Vernam - noted chronic, less than 150 appearances at age 26/27 and mainly off the bench. Comes in - chronic.

Pyke - not fancied anywhere he’s been, inconsistent in every positions, never managed more than 5 or 6 in a season despite being signed as a centre forward

Ganouha/Wilson/Ainley all signed to play as part of this interchangeable lineup behind the striker. All inconsistent or injury prone to a certain extent.

That’s a lot of people to bring in and suddenly decide that you can change how they approach the game, turn them into a bunch of consistent, reliable winners when for most of their recent careers they have been inconsistent, unreliable losers. Might sound harsh but those are the facts.

Think he left himself too much to do and once you get into a habit of being not very good, and surrounded by players who are the same, it’s hard to drag yourself out of it.

There’s only Rose, Conteh and Eisa who have achieved anything close to the level which might’ve been expected of them.

Suppose you might make this argument about any of the players we bring in, that they’re inconsistent, but I don’t think we’ve ever set up a back 5 comprised entirely of people like that.

Yet all Town fans thought we'd assembled a good team ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
You pay peanuts....
The writing was on the wall when we were left with the debts that Fenty left after theyd supposedly bought the club. Ah well, its going to be a long long process and Id imagine Artell wont be here to see it out. It will take a good few years to build a promotion team on a budget

Quoted from Mariner_09

Absolutely true, if we'd won those games against Walsall, Bradford and Crawley, Hurst would still be here.

Would he? The owners wanted him to play more aesthetically pleasing football.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Would he? The owners wanted him to play more aesthetically pleasing football.

As in losing 6-1 at home ?

Quoted from It Bites

Great post btw .

I agree something is wrong behind the scenes for PH to intercourse up so bad in a window . A relegated GK and Defender was never the best place to build a team from . Eisa is lazy and Gnoua and Ainley ( GWS) seemed like panick additions . I don’t think there is much money available for the team and I also think the owners won’t be devastated if we go down ?

Really! That bit at the end has to be the most stupidest few words ever posted on The Fishy.

Quoted from 123614

Really! That bit at the end has to be the most stupidest few words ever posted on The Fishy.

Not sure about that - there's strong competition.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Not sure about that - there's strong competition.

Yeah come on . We all remember the COVID thread

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Not sure about that - there's strong competition.

How about I would like Scunthorpe to be promoted this season?

Quoted from Zmariner

Exactly my point, DA deserves criticism for his lack of flexibility in approach but this squad is poor and Paul Hurst has had a nightmare. I think PH is a good manager, on this occasion he screwed up badly in recruitment and DA has to find a way to keep us up. He needs to be pragmatic as we have been pitiful at home in recent weeks

Continue to disagree with this viewpoint. The squad last year finished 11th and an FA Cup Quarter Final. Name any player that was released from that squad that is better than what we brought in.

I don't believe the squad is as poor as many would have you believe. I've adjusted my view in that it perhaps isn't the play-off capable squad we had optimism for at the start of the season but I don't see it as a poor one.

It was hard not to argue against PH moving on, performances at the start of the season I thought were good, albeit we couldn't get the results and attacking elements of our game were lacking on a consistent basis. Despite that we have 3 strikers and a winger who have all scored more than Taylor and Orsi combined all season (a nudge to the recruitment).

Even as a staunch PH supporter it was hard to argue for his continuance based on results, but I think at the moment we're seeing that even though results were hard, the players were with him. There comes a point where you can't keep backing someone when there's no evidence to suggest your fortunes will change but this is the other side of the coin when you bring a new manager in.

It's all a matter of faith and even though the evidence wasn't there I don't believe we'd have gone down under PH. I'm not saying I think DA will take us down either, but if the rumours of a disillusioned squad with arguments and rifts developing then it doesn't paint an optimistic picture.

Issue for me is simple, individual error and players not being used an in effective system that compliments them. With PH, even if you didn't like the football, you knew what it was, you knew it was pragmatic and balanced. I'm not sure what DA is doing at the minute. We've heard how he wants us to play but I'm not seeing any progression, with the MK Dons and Salford game being the exceptions which I thought were excellent performances.

I do find it ironic that for all the criticism PH received there are certain quarters who think we need that particular style to tighten us up and grind out some results.

Quoted from gtfc_chris

Continue to disagree with this viewpoint. The squad last year finished 11th and an FA Cup Quarter Final. Name any player that was released from that squad that is better than what we brought in.

I don't believe the squad is as poor as many would have you believe. I've adjusted my view in that it perhaps isn't the play-off capable squad we had optimism for at the start of the season but I don't see it as a poor one.

It was hard not to argue against PH moving on, performances at the start of the season I thought were good, albeit we couldn't get the results and attacking elements of our game were lacking on a consistent basis. Despite that we have 3 strikers and a winger who have all scored more than Taylor and Orsi combined all season (a nudge to the recruitment).

Even as a staunch PH supporter it was hard to argue for his continuance based on results, but I think at the moment we're seeing that even though results were hard, the players were with him. There comes a point where you can't keep backing someone when there's no evidence to suggest your fortunes will change but this is the other side of the coin when you bring a new manager in.

It's all a matter of faith and even though the evidence wasn't there I don't believe we'd have gone down under PH. I'm not saying I think DA will take us down either, but if the rumours of a disillusioned squad with arguments and rifts developing then it doesn't paint an optimistic picture.

Issue for me is simple, individual error and players not being used an in effective system that compliments them. With PH, even if you didn't like the football, you knew what it was, you knew it was pragmatic and balanced. I'm not sure what DA is doing at the minute. We've heard how he wants us to play but I'm not seeing any progression, with the MK Dons and Salford game being the exceptions which I thought were excellent performances.

I do find it ironic that for all the criticism PH received there are certain quarters who think we need that particular style to tighten us up and grind out some results.

We must be watching different games because barring Saturday every game i've seen what we are trying to do. Under Hurst I had 0 idea what the game plan was in many of the games and the football was terrible on top of it.

Quoted from gtfc_chris

Continue to disagree with this viewpoint. The squad last year finished 11th and an FA Cup Quarter Final. Name any player that was released from that squad that is better than what we brought in.

I don't believe the squad is as poor as many would have you believe. I've adjusted my view in that it perhaps isn't the play-off capable squad we had optimism for at the start of the season but I don't see it as a poor one.

It was hard not to argue against PH moving on, performances at the start of the season I thought were good, albeit we couldn't get the results and attacking elements of our game were lacking on a consistent basis. Despite that we have 3 strikers and a winger who have all scored more than Taylor and Orsi combined all season (a nudge to the recruitment).

Even as a staunch PH supporter it was hard to argue for his continuance based on results, but I think at the moment we're seeing that even though results were hard, the players were with him. There comes a point where you can't keep backing someone when there's no evidence to suggest your fortunes will change but this is the other side of the coin when you bring a new manager in.

It's all a matter of faith and even though the evidence wasn't there I don't believe we'd have gone down under PH. I'm not saying I think DA will take us down either, but if the rumours of a disillusioned squad with arguments and rifts developing then it doesn't paint an optimistic picture.

Issue for me is simple, individual error and players not being used an in effective system that compliments them. With PH, even if you didn't like the football, you knew what it was, you knew it was pragmatic and balanced. I'm not sure what DA is doing at the minute. We've heard how he wants us to play but I'm not seeing any progression, with the MK Dons and Salford game being the exceptions which I thought were excellent performances.

I do find it ironic that for all the criticism PH received there are certain quarters who think we need that particular style to tighten us up and grind out some results.

That's very harsh on Artell and very soft on Hurst.

We had no discernable style with the latter day Hurst and apart from Saturday we can all see what Artell is trying to do.

Alex hunt off to Carlisle apparently. Don’t know how true this rumour is though.

Quoted from 123614

Really? You seem to be heavily ITK, perhaps you could tell us who we are going to sign before the end of the window too?

Son in law, is ex professional footballer, who still plays locally, knows all the lads, hence why I get titbits from the current squad, cant help you with any transfer incomings.

I will say, most things I but on here will be a lot closer to the mark than your conjecture.

I don't think the squad that came 11th was better individually or technically than this one now .

But for sure in terms of organisation and character it was .

It was a sum of it's parts and everyone knew their roles really ,throw in a handful of quality loans and we had a decent side for this level .

I don't know what happened with Hurst's recruitment but I don't think he fares well with more money and seemed to go away from picking players to fit his system and decided that he would just pick up the best players he could and fit them into any system - maybe he wanted to be more flexible / reinvent himself or it was under the instruction from higher up that a better style of football was needed .

I do find this 'Grimsby way ' thing quite strange does Stockwood mean going back to the 80's and 90's ?

The only way that has given us any success over the last 20 years is through grit and determination both with Hurst and Slade , the teams could play a bit but it was more down to basics .

Lower down hardly any teams have much glory with total football , it seems more the basics and/or having the best players .

Maybe Arteĺl can break the mould