I was listening to the radio in the car last night and heard a Southport players name that caught my attention. It was Mikey O'Neill. I was a bit surprised he had dropped so far.
Stephen Wearne doing OK at Gateshead too.
Utm

Surprised? He looked like he’d won a raffle to play for us when he was here, which was a huge shock as he was on the brink of the Preston first team.

Remember Terry Taylor, we thought he was useless, now comfortable playing league 1 football at Charlton.
Whether O'Neill can replicate that, who knows, he's a young lad but someone, somewhere thinks he's got talent, we just never saw it.

Quoted from Zmariner

I was listening to the radio in the car last night and heard a Southport players name that caught my attention. It was Mikey O'Neill. I was a bit surprised he had dropped so far.
Stephen Wearne doing OK at Gateshead too.
Utm

I'm surprised you were surprised, tbh.

This seems to happen a lot to well thought of youngsters, particularly at Championship clubs. They are brought up (quite rightly) to play passing football, possession based football using all their natural skills in the hope they will be good enough to play at that high level.

When they can't make the breakthrough they are loaned out lower down the pyramid but instead of standing out they look somewhat lost, almost like they are playing a different game. This must come as a great shock, as I imagine they have visions of taking say league 2 by storm due to their pedigree but often it just fizzles out.

There is a lot to be said in working your way up the leagues by degrees, unless you are indeed one of those really gifted players in ability and physique who can get into the first team from academy football at a high level.

I think it's just a reflection of where they are in their development when they tend to come here.  I thought O'Neill looked good in his first game, a bit Lewis Richardson like in how he looked tenacious and just had a little bit of edge about him. But then he quickly seemed to become a boy again, which is what he effectively is/was.

Sam Bell's another.  He looked ok when he was here on loan.  Not amazing but not awful, raw would be a good way to sum him up.  Fast forward a couple of years and he's an important part of a Championship side.

Clubs are reluctant to loan out those that are actually on the cusp of breaking through into their first team, certainly to sides two or three levels below themselves.  If we get youngsters from Championship or even Premier League outfits, it's more likely than not that they'll be very, very raw.  I know it's all depending on relationships between clubs and indeed staff, but I'm always surprised that we get loans of young lads much higher up the ladder as opposed to lads who are perhaps a bit further along in their development but at League One clubs, Peterborough for example.

But the problem with all the young loanees we had could be that they came here with all their undoubted talent, but had all their vim and vigour coached out of them and into the way our Manager wanted them to play instead, which didnt suit.
We have found with the likes of Pyke, who on the rare occasion of him playing while Hurst was here, was constantly played out of position. Now the shackles have been removed, just look at him now. Hes like a new player.

Quoted from WayneBurnettsJockstrap

But the problem with all the young loanees we had could be that they came here with all their undoubted talent, but had all their vim and vigour coached out of them and into the way our Manager wanted them to play instead, which didnt suit.
We have found with the likes of Pyke, who on the rare occasion of him playing while Hurst was here, was constantly played out of position. Now the shackles have been removed, just look at him now. Hes like a new player.

I think you are right, although it sounds quite sad to admit it. Loan players, our own players who have flair and that touch of magic seemed to regress in the last couple of seasons under Hurst's tutelage.

I don't know what happened to him; it certainly wasn't always like this. In the run up to and including the play off campaign we played some great football with players allowed to express themselves. In previous seasons we played some exciting football and sometimes scored goals for fun.

Of course there is the caveat of the FA Cup run and highest finish for some time but the football under Hurst was dire for a long time.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

This seems to happen a lot to well thought of youngsters, particularly at Championship clubs. They are brought up (quite rightly) to play passing football, possession based football using all their natural skills in the hope they will be good enough to play at that high level.

When they can't make the breakthrough they are loaned out lower down the pyramid but instead of standing out they look somewhat lost, almost like they are playing a different game. This must come as a great shock, as I imagine they have visions of taking say league 2 by storm due to their pedigree but often it just fizzles out.

There is a lot to be said in working your way up the leagues by degrees, unless you are indeed one of those really gifted players in ability and physique who can get into the first team from academy football at a high level.

I wonder if it might be a case of quantity over quality for some clubs, I have a friend who's son was at Norwich and at that time they took in loads of teenagers.

He was let go at 17 and now plays a good standard down the pyramid. Credit to Norwich though they managed his expectations throughout, was really considerate in the manner that they let him go and when he was injured he got first class medical and physio support.

Quoted from Zmariner

Stephen Wearne doing OK at Gateshead too.

Wearne is doing a bit better than OK by all accounts. Key player for Gateshead and one of the better attacking players in the division so far this season. Bit of a frustrating one there for us, in my opinion. Hurst obviously didn't rate him, probably because his defensive attributes weren't good enough for a winger.

Quoted from Son of Cod

Wearne is doing a bit better than OK by all accounts. Key player for Gateshead and one of the better attacking players in the division so far this season. Bit of a frustrating one there for us, in my opinion. Hurst obviously didn't rate him, probably because his defensive attributes weren't good enough for a winger.

That's in a nutshell isn't it? Do you want your wide players to create and score goals, or do you want them to be auxiliary full backs?

Very few wide players today don't track back in sany event, but it certainly should not be their focus imo.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

That's in a nutshell isn't it? Do you want your wide players to create and score goals, or do you want them to be auxiliary full backs?

Very few wide players today don't track back in sany event, but it certainly should not be their focus imo.

Yep, don't get me wrong though, I'm all for hard working wide midfield players in the Hurst ilk but there's still room for wingers that are all out attack. That's one of the justifiable criticisms of Hurst v2.0, in my opinion. He gave time to your Scott Neilsons back in the day but these type of players were barely given places in the squad the second time around. The amount of times in the last few years we were screaming out for a player to come off the bench, take on a full back and get to the byline and our one hope is an out of form Glennon so you look on the bench and the only remotely attacking subs we've got to use are Alex Hunt, some 19 year old lad on loan from Birmingham or somewhere and Danilo Orsi.

8 in 18 from Wearne so far this season.

I'd like to say he really impressed me when he was here but truth be told he played so little football it's impossible to do so.

2 back-to-back starts early on last season, followed by coming off the bench at half-time at Walsall to help turn it round from a goal down to 2-1 win and then just 10 more minutes from the bench before he was loaned out.  But in that limited time he did look a bit different to what we had.  I think a few of the arguments against him was that he was too lightweight, not sure I agreed.

One of those Hurst signings that I couldn't get my head round.  Why sign him if he's clearly not someone you fancy?  

Hurst does not like anyone that has a bit of flair about them . He just coaches it out of them and just wants every one to be a defender  No wonder they go off the boil and look disinterested most of the time..And probably why he never got a proper no 9 center forward in as its not in any way in there game to be a defender .

but he signed sousa......

Quoted from forza ivano

but he signed sousa......

Thats true  and a few more but  he just stifled them with his gotta get back and defend leaving them too far  back to be a threat . or subed them or sent them on with 10 mins to go . You know exactly what i mean

This thread is about Mikey O'Neill

Do we really need to character assassinate Paul Hurst again?

It's done, we've moved on.  Parted on good terms so we don't need to return to berating him here.

Quoted from Son of Cod

Yep, don't get me wrong though, I'm all for hard working wide midfield players in the Hurst ilk but there's still room for wingers that are all out attack. That's one of the justifiable criticisms of Hurst v2.0, in my opinion. He gave time to your Scott Neilsons back in the day but these type of players were barely given places in the squad the second time around. The amount of times in the last few years we were screaming out for a player to come off the bench, take on a full back and get to the byline and our one hope is an out of form Glennon so you look on the bench and the only remotely attacking subs we've got to use are Alex Hunt, some 19 year old lad on loan from Birmingham or somewhere and Danilo Orsi.

Not just Hurst v 2.0, he's always done this in my opinion, especially with wingers. Any players he brought in that got us excited at the start of their Town careers soon had it coached out of them by Hurst. Jack Mackreth is an early one that springs to mind.

Who coined the phrase coached out of them?

Quoted from forza ivano

but he signed sousa......

I think Sousa fitted the Hurst mould quite well. He got back to defend and was exceptionally good at travelling up the pitch with ball. If anyone could have taught him how to cross or shoot over the years, he could have played much higher.

Quoted from jamesgtfc

I think Sousa fitted the Hurst mould quite well. He got back to defend and was exceptionally good at travelling up the pitch with ball. If anyone could have taught him how to cross or shoot over the years, he could have played much higher.

Yep some of Sousa's better performances were towards the end of the season when he'd channelled his inner Hurst. I also think his assist stats would have been higher if we had strikers that got into the box that season. McAtee and Taylor, as much as I loved them as a combo, were barely on the end of anything in the box and Clifton definitely fluffed a couple of Sousa crosses from memory.