Something other than managerial talk.

Reflecting on the above game and I'm still bemused by some of the VAR decisions around the sending offs.

I'm coming from the view of somebody who has played the game albeit a good few years ago. I accept maybe I need to update my views in line with the modern game.

Firstly Romero's petulant kick out.  For me that's not a red but think back to Beckham in the world cup who's was less aggressive.  
We've seen reds for far far less so surely he should have been off if interpretations are applied consistently.

Next up the actual red card.  For me it was never a red. Played the ball, studs weren't up.
The ball spun away as a result of the challenge which left his leg to follow through.  But could he have prevented this?  I was always coached to never go in half hearted into a challenge as that's when you get yourself injured.  
Are we saying that when you make a tackle you should immediately pull you leg back to prevent a follow through?
I know I'll probably be in the minority.

Havey Rodgers got booked recently for the very same thing. Strong challenge but clearly took the ball.

And lastly Dan James elbow.  For me he knew exactly what he was doing. Looked at the player and there was movement of his arm towards the opposition player.  We've seen red after red for this but on this occasion VAR cleared it. Not even a yellow.  

I just think the games gone a bit soft and we've become over reliant on VAR. And the time it takes! 12 mins injury time in the first half. That's 25% additional time.
Madness.

For me VAR out.

Whilst I didn’t see the match in question, VAR has been allowed to creep too far into decision making. Seemingly every decision now involves VAR and referees seem happy to let the VAR control room decide on far too much. It was supposed to be for clear and obvious errors, but now consumes far too much of the match, resulting in loss of flow and games getting ever longer.

I’d prefer to move to a Wimbledon challenge style system, where a team is allowed say two challenges per match.

Classic case of mission creep.Tipping point reached .Var gone within 3 years

I’m a bit of a spurs fan and my biggest gripe was that Spurs lost all discipline even though they were winning 1-0 . They turned it into a fight

Quoted from 141269

Something other than managerial talk.

Reflecting on the above game and I'm still bemused by some of the VAR decisions around the sending offs.

I'm coming from the view of somebody who has played the game albeit a good few years ago. I accept maybe I need to update my views in line with the modern game.

Firstly Romero's petulant kick out.  For me that's not a red but think back to Beckham in the world cup who's was less aggressive.  
We've seen reds for far far less so surely he should have been off if interpretations are applied consistently.

Next up the actual red card.  For me it was never a red. Played the ball, studs weren't up.
The ball spun away as a result of the challenge which left his leg to follow through.  But could he have prevented this?  I was always coached to never go in half hearted into a challenge as that's when you get yourself injured.  
Are we saying that when you make a tackle you should immediately pull you leg back to prevent a follow through?
I know I'll probably be in the minority.

Havey Rodgers got booked recently for the very same thing. Strong challenge but clearly took the ball.

And lastly Dan James elbow.  For me he knew exactly what he was doing. Looked at the player and there was movement of his arm towards the opposition player.  We've seen red after red for this but on this occasion VAR cleared it. Not even a yellow.  

I just think the games gone a bit soft and we've become over reliant on VAR. And the time it takes! 12 mins injury time in the first half. That's 25% additional time.
Madness.

For me VAR out.

And that is the biggest problem with VAR , most decisions are still down to opinion instead of the reason it was brought in . Mistakes , clear and obvious errors .
I hate VAR

I’d happily see VAR scrapped, but on the proviso that we stop scrutinising referees’ decisions to the Nth degree. If we could accept that human error is part of the game then the sport would be better for it.

Unfortunately, if we scrapped it tomorrow, I suspect the media would still zoom in on every offside, do the whole slow-mo and/or pausing trick on tackles, which often makes them look terrible and/or dangerous. Then the first time an offside is missed and leads to a goal there will be a tsunami of moaning.

I wish they’d look into broadcasting the ref’s mic like they do in both the rugby codes – it’d help with transparency and, even if people didn’t agree with the decision made, it would maybe help us understand where they’re coming from.

Leave the decisions to the one man on the pitch, rather than a bunch of blokes in the VAR room who will each have their own varying opinions. Chaos.   VAR OUT.

At least in the pre-VAR days, you only had one clown to blame for bad decisions. There's a whole bunch of them now.

I don't disagree with much of the OP but I'm amazed anybody can look at the Romero red card and disagree with it. The kickout was petulant and stupid but it wasn't going to hurt anyone. The follow through on the one he was sent off for looked like a clear and deliberate attempt to leave one on Fernandez. Caught him high up the shin with studs up. How is that not a red regardless of whether he played the ball first?

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

I don't disagree with much of the OP but I'm amazed anybody can look at the Romero red card and disagree with it. The kickout was petulant and stupid but it wasn't going to hurt anyone. The follow through on the one he was sent off for looked like a clear and deliberate attempt to leave one on Fernandez. Caught him high up the shin with studs up. How is that not a red regardless of whether he played the ball first?

Agree, as did all the ex pro footballer pundits

I keep viewing it and can completely see why it was given as a red.  I'm still not convinced it was however.

The ball takes a wicked spin away as a result of the tackle which leads to his leg following through.

If the ball doesn't spin away that's not even given as a foul as his foot remains behind the ball.  When slowed down it looks horrific when you see his foot on the opponents shin. In real time it looks totally different hence the reason it wasn't seen as a foul by the referee.

I guess that's VAR for you and the general consensus of the forum is that it's damaging football.

Luckily it's not due at BP anytime soon.

I love VAR........hated it when I first met it in South London but grew to love it when I had a dirty weekend away on the South Coast with it.  

Nobody have mentioned that five goals were disallowed by VAR. as well.   ;D.

Spurs end up with nine men on the pitch so apart from the two sending off and five goals there was the penalty to look at .

I thought the game was never going to end.  :o

So long it not introduced into EFL pyamid, not bothered as I don't watch Premiershit and the BBC Toyland pundits on Match of the day.

When your job is to run the VAR and 4 of you are employed to do so at each game, you're going to make sure there's loads of VAR decisions to justify keeping your job.....

Should be an open mike so we can all hear the discussion, and should only be used if the ref requests help/something serious the ref couldn't see has occurred

Quoted from The Yard Dog

So long it not introduced into EFL pyamid, not bothered as I don't watch Premiershit and the BBC Toyland pundits on Match of the day.

I think the new EFL TV deal that commences next season represents a step towards that, regrettably. From next season 45% of League Two games will be broadcast live on Sky, with the requisite increase in cameras that brings with it, and of course the revenue it creates for game to spunk, be that on players, agents, infrastructure or whatever.

There’s a potential challenge in finding the manpower for a further 36 EFL games each weekend but I suspect there are potential solutions for that.

I’d expect to see VAR in the EFL within 5 years. Whether that’s enough time to iron out its obvious flaws is anyone’s guess.

No doubt about it, we need goal-line technology but apart from that, leave the bloody game alone.

VAR continues to amuse me daily. Many moaned about refs. VAR eventually get’s introduced and (premiershit) fans moan even more! Careful what you wish for.

As someone said further up the thread, we have to accept refs will make mistakes. Then leave the game alone. Doubt that will happen though.

But I’m a dinosaur who would prefer terracing back, black boots only, shirts numbered 1-11 and one minute silences not clapping.

Quoted from Grimsby Is Not In Yorkshire

VAR continues to amuse me daily. Many moaned about refs. VAR eventually get’s introduced and (premiershit) fans moan even more! Careful what you wish for.

As someone said further up the thread, we have to accept refs will make mistakes. Then leave the game alone. Doubt that will happen though.

But I’m a dinosaur who would prefer terracing back, black boots only, shirts numbered 1-11 and one minute silences not clapping.

I’ve said previously that the overwhelming number of officiating “mistakes” are either marginal or contentious. It’s the 1% or 2% which are absolute howlers - ghost goals, balls blatantly crossing the line and not given etc. - that need eradicating and could be done so quite easily.

Still, VAR has to justify its own costs and so has to be over engineered. At least we’ve got an FA Cup quarter final to thank for it. Now, where did all that money go…

Best game I've watched all season, I thought VAR added to the entertainment.

Long live VAR.

Must be weird, celebrating a goal twice!!

Just watching Man Utd.

Rashford given a straight red following a VAR review.  Yet another ridiculous decision. He's stepped across the player to shield the ball but inadvertently stood on the guys foot.  He wasn't looking at the guys foot so can't have had any intent.

And no I'm no Man Utd fan!

Quoted from 141269

Just watching Man Utd.

Rashford given a straight red following a VAR review.  Yet another ridiculous decision. He's stepped across the player to shield the ball but inadvertently stood on the guys foot.  He wasn't looking at the guys foot so can't have had any intent.

And no I'm no Man Utd fan!

The fans need to make a stand , they are the ones with the power . Boycott VAR games . It won’t happen though because people love a good moan

That's it. All top flight footballers need to have their arms amputated at the elbow.  
Only way to not get handball given against you.

Quoted from 141269

That's it. All top flight footballers need to have their arms amputated at the elbow.  
Only way to not get handball given against you.

Yep it's a joke.
Hardly clear and obvious was it?
Yes more decisions are correct when it is used but it is totally spoiling the game.

Quoted from 141269

Just watching Man Utd.

Rashford given a straight red following a VAR review.  Yet another ridiculous decision. He's stepped across the player to shield the ball but inadvertently stood on the guys foot.  He wasn't looking at the guys foot so can't have had any intent.

And no I'm no Man Utd fan!

I hate VAR but ……….I hate Man U more ! 😂

Quoted from Les Brechin

Must be weird, celebrating a goal twice!!

Town would like to celebrate one :P

Quoted from Grimsby Is Not In Yorkshire

VAR continues to amuse me daily. Many moaned about refs. VAR eventually get’s introduced and (premiershit) fans moan even more! Careful what you wish for.

As someone said further up the thread, we have to accept refs will make mistakes. Then leave the game alone. Doubt that will happen though.

But I’m a dinosaur who would prefer terracing back, black boots only, shirts numbered 1-11 and one minute silences not clapping.

Why oh Why do they have to keep changing things every season. The game was fine as it was for over 100 years - Passing the ball back from kick offs - the offside rule - passing back to goalkeepers - number of substitutions allowed - 4th officials - VAR being used for what it was not intended - all these foreign owners - no terrace standing 15 -20 mins for half time tea etc. the list goes on. How many of the changes have actually improved the game ?

Quoted from GrimPol

Town would like to celebrate one :P

20 goals scored in EFL 2 this season so far.

Quoted from 123614

20 goals scored in EFL 2 this season so far.

You've forgotten that Eisa's goals earlier in the season didn't count because they were good.

Quoted from BobbyCummingsTackle

You've forgotten that Eisa's goals earlier in the season didn't count because they were good.

Lots said he won't keep scoring screamers every week and we're in trouble when that happens. Looks like we were right. Nothing to do with them not counting, everything to do with us creating naff all

The problem with Eisa of late isn't as much that he's stopped scoring screamers, but that he's missed some absolute sitters in games where we would probably have got some sort of a result if he'd tapped them in. I can think of a couple.

Obviously, if he'd scored other screamers after missing said sitters, it wouldn't be such an issue!

Quoted from Maringer

The problem with Eisa of late isn't as much that he's stopped scoring screamers, but that he's missed some absolute sitters in games where we would probably have got some sort of a result if he'd tapped them in. I can think of a couple.

Obviously, if he'd scored other screamers after missing said sitters, it wouldn't be such an issue!

That's the irony here. When he was scoring those, we didn't create anything for someone to tap in. Now we are creating more, but missing easy chances.

Whilst we're missing sitters, I'm confident of moving up the league. If we stop creating because confidence drops lower then we're in real trouble

Think VAR is here to stay but needs tweaking as and when it should be used . For me has been overall a positive particularly during the world cups and European championships ( tend to follow more now than club football) but I admit has been some teething problems as well .

Quoted from Rick12

Think VAR is here to stay but needs tweaking as and when it should be used . For me has been overall a positive particularly during the world cups and European championships ( tend to follow more now than club football) but I admit has been some teething problems as well .

I agree, it's here to stay and eventually coming our way. Personally , I think ex professional footballers should be involved in both VAR and the refereeing world which appears to be a cabal .
I've been led to understand that to referee in the premier league it's by invitation, maybe someone can clarify that .

Quoted from Ruston AT

I agree, it's here to stay and eventually coming our way.  

I look back at certain instances in world football and feel at times the referee makes glaring mistakes on the most prestigious of nights which could potentially change the dreams of people. Howard Webb for instance not giving De Jong a straight red on Xabi Alonso after that flying kick in his chest in the 2010 world cup final. I get that people are only human and  high pressure matches can get to them which is why extra help is a bonus for me via VAR.

Quoted from pen penfras

Lots said he won't keep scoring screamers every week and we're in trouble when that happens. Looks like we were right. Nothing to do with them not counting, everything to do with us creating naff all

Erm, but we are scoring goals. The problem is we’re letting too many in. How many games have we failed to score in? How many have we failed to keep a clean sheet in?

VAR was put to it's proper use in the West Ham game last night. They won 1-0, but without VAR, a perfectly good goal would have been ruled out for offside and cost them 2 points, which could be the difference between progressing or not in Europe.

Even then though, the time it took to arrive at the right decision was an age, when it was clear on first viewing of the replay that he was well onside.

Quoted from Ruston AT

I agree, it's here to stay and eventually coming our way. Personally , I think ex professional footballers should be involved in both VAR and the refereeing world which appears to be a cabal .
I've been led to understand that to referee in the premier league it's by invitation, maybe someone can clarify that .

I have heard that ex players run a mile from being a ref because they don't want the grief.

Quoted from cardiffmariner

Erm, but we are scoring goals. The problem is we’re letting too many in. How many games have we failed to score in? How many have we failed to keep a clean sheet in?

We are creating chances now. The point about Eisa at the time was we weren't creating much and were relying on him scoring worldies but it was pointed out that the team couldn't count on him continuing to do that, as it was incredibly unlikely. He hasn't. The team have managed to start fashioning more chances but they are less defensively capable when doing that.