Just been looking back through my camera roll...

Right, firstly, I know it's frowned upon by some, and I understand that but, to be honest, I'm one of those people who sometimes (not always) gets my phone out when we win a set piece in the hope I'll capture a goal.

All I have this season is a succession of corners either going straight into the hands of the keeper, or being cleared; free kicks either not clearing the first man or drifting out for goal kicks.

I know Maher scored a cracking header from a corner last weekend and we won't win every set piece header, but we do seem (generally) weak in this area so far.

Email Hurst straight away! It's analysis like this we've been missing under Fenty's reign!

Honestly, you can have all the coaching badges you want but the experience of a qualified, ex forward/striker would work wonders for this squad.
All of our coaching staff are defenders. Now I'm not saying any of them are incompetent but they will know how to defend like its second nature so probably easy to impart knowledge onto our own crop if defenders.
Who gives the front line that guidance, shows them instinctively how to react, read the game, where to find the gaps, somethings you can't learn in a book, only on the shop floor.

How do you ‘show’ someone ‘instinctively’ how to react?
Completely flawed argument this. Ex defenders with coaching qualifications and experience can’t coach strikers; who apparently are instinctive anyway.?!

Quoted from RichMariner

Just been looking back through my camera roll...

Right, firstly, I know it's frowned upon by some, and I understand that but, to be honest, I'm one of those people who sometimes (not always) gets my phone out when we win a set piece in the hope I'll capture a goal.

All I have this season is a succession of corners either going straight into the hands of the keeper, or being cleared; free kicks either not clearing the first man or drifting out for goal kicks.

I know Maher scored a cracking header from a corner last weekend and we won't win every set piece header, but we do seem (generally) weak in this area so far.

Doesn't  this analysis forget at least one of eisas goals tho?
Plus maher had a half chance in injury time post a set piece yesterday.

When the strikers coaching thing crops up I always think of the 97/98 team: a brilliant side led by a brilliant goalscorer - whose top scoring striker scored 8!

The idea that having a defensive coaching is a contributing factor to the team not being attacking enough is bizarre. The best team in the land are managed by a former relatively defensive midfielder yet Alan shearer, one of the best strikers of all time was a dreadful coach.

Set pieces are an interesting concept these days anyway. I’d argue that teams that seemingly score a fair few or even play for them are often spoken about negatively. I’m sure Opta did some analysis and the higher up you go teams make positive use of set pieces even less.

I agree we could be more of a threat but I just think it’s an evolution of the game rather than some notion that it’s poor coaching.

Quoted from chaos33

How do you ‘show’ someone ‘instinctively’ how to react?
Completely flawed argument this. Ex defenders with coaching qualifications and experience can’t coach strikers; who apparently are instinctive anyway.?!

I'm on about the ex player you male masturbation biscuit...Good god, we are weak as p!ss up front and whilst we only have ex defenders as coaches you best get used to it!..

Quoted from aldi_01

The idea that having a defensive coaching is a contributing factor to the team not being attacking enough is bizarre. The best team in the land are managed by a former relatively defensive midfielder yet Alan shearer, one of the best strikers of all time was a dreadful coach.

Set pieces are an interesting concept these days anyway. I’d argue that teams that seemingly score a fair few or even play for them are often spoken about negatively. I’m sure Opta did some analysis and the higher up you go teams make positive use of set pieces even less.

I agree we could be more of a threat but I just think it’s an evolution of the game rather than some notion that it’s poor coaching.

Why is it bizarre?..pep has a myriad of coaches, some of whom are attacking coaches, set piece coaches, defensive coaches, something we don't have, we have 4 ex defenders as coaches.
As an all rounder Hurst has done okay, I just think we/he needs somebody who knows how to operate at the top end of the pitch,

As an adult (I presume), do you want to stand by calling someone a ‘w**k biscuit’ because they posted an alternative view, or are you going to edit it?

I think the OP has a point. We are not good at set peace kicks.

What we do about it is another matter……

Quoted from IlkleyMariner

I think the OP has a point. We are not good at set peace kicks.

What we do about it is another matter……

There will be few better opportunities to right that than against an Aaron Hayden-less Wrexham on Saturday.

Wrexham are almost the antithesis of the Bradford side we just faced; offensively virile but defensively hapless.

This line about only having defensive coaches isn't true.

Ben Davies spent the final years of his career at right-back.  Other than that he was a very attacking, creative midfielder operating either centrally or wide.  He also had a very, very sweet delivery from free-kicks.  We didn't get to see a lot of it but here's just one example of him doing so.  

1:20 in

It might be an age thing but what is a male masturbation biscuit ?

Quoted from grimsby pete

It might be an age thing but what is a male masturbation biscuit ?

It was the name given to a failed experiment by McVities when they tried to combine a chocolate bourbon, a ginger nut and a custard cream into one thing

If you don't understand the reference, Pete, you're really better off remaining in the dark!  :)

If I'm an ex-pro who played as a defender, e.g. Hurst, I should know how to set a team up to defend set pieces.

Conversely, I should also know what defenders hate at set pieces, and therefore use this knowledge to set a team up to attack set pieces.

I think it works both ways. Attacking ex-pros should know how to set up a team to defend by considering everything they hated coming up against during their playing days.

Original point still stands, which is that I think we could be much more effective from set pieces.

I do agree with an earlier post that says the higher up the leagues you go, the more obsolete set pieces become. Fewer goals are scored from set pieces in the PL than they are in the lower leagues.

However, we are the lower leagues, so we need to lean into this a bit. We're not gonna change the culture of L2 football by being the side that tries to score the vast majority of our goals from open play.

Players at this level are clumsy. They're going to give away silly free kicks 30-40 yards out. We know from Jordan Cropper that even throw-ins can be a source of goals.

I'm not asking us to become Wrexham. But in the Bradford game, taken as an 'average' game, we had at least four or five opportunities from free kicks alone (without 'playing' for them) to pop it into a good area and the execution was poor.

We shouldn't be a route one, set piece-dependent team. But when we're given free chances to put the ball into a good area, under no pressure, we should be better than what we are.

On the most basic of levels, a set-piece involves two elements.  The ability to put a ball into a dangerous area and the ability to get someone onto the end of that ball.  The less simpler elements and arguably those that make them more effective is the pace, trajectory etc. of the delivery then the positioning, stance, movement of the players in the mixer.  

I actually think our delivery at set-pieces has been ok this season. Which is a bit of a novelty because with the exception of an on loan Alex Hunt and then the one Danny Andrew season/Conor Townsend loans, our delivery has felt poor for a long, long time.  

But the issue as I see it is that we're static as hell in the box.  Watch the next game how we move at corners, largely we don't.  There's no anticipation or even an attempt at gambling on an outcome, it's all just reactionary static stuff.  Our success in the Conference on set-pieces came pretty much because Waterfall was just a beast at that level and teams couldn't cope with him.  With better defending that threat became less so and we've failed to provide a new threat.  

The defending is better at this level, but it's still not amazing.   A bit of movement and invention at set-pieces and I think sides would really struggle to cope.

I think the main factor is the lack of both Glennon and Hunt in the team who were the set piece taking experts. I personally feel their omission is justified BUT one of the downsides is the lack of set piece taking ability in those players in the first 11. Amos is simply not as good as Glennon at it. Gnouhah is not as good as hunt at it. Simple as that. We are a poorer team at set pieces with neither in the team, but better defensively in open play.

I actually think Gnahoua's deliveries from set-pieces are more consistent than anything from Hunt and Glennon.

The latter two perhaps have that one in five/six that are really good, but the rest tend to be poor. Gnahoua just seems to keep it simple and puts it in the dangerous area.

The problem with Glennon and Hunt as I see it is that they both performed to a higher standard earlier with us, showcasing their abilities. That standard has dropped, for whatever reason, giving us reason to moan.

All they have to do is return to their old ways, train harder and put extra time in at Cheapside to resurrect their old form. Going back decades a young thin skinny kid played and trained with Scunny. Most afternoons after training finished he pit in a few extra hours to try to hone his skills. It worked for Kevin Keegan and would more than likely work for our pair.

Glennon came from Burnley and Hunt from Sheff Weds.

Bigger clubs, better coaches, better facilities, better players to train with, better everything.

Their quality is more likely to drop as they drop down the levels because of a number of factors, none more so than the access to the things that helped them reach that higher level to start with.  

I don't think it's as simple as just trying harder.  If that was the case every player who put in extra hours would improve at a significant rate.  Yes, practice makes perfect and I do believe in the 10,000 hour rule to an extent. But it's as much about what goes on around those practice hours as it is the hours spent.  

There's a great book on this by Matthew Syed called Bounce.  I'd recommend it to anyone who's interested in what makes the best the best. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bounce-Myth-Talent-Power-Practice/dp/0007350546

I 8ften read posts here and shake my head.Lers have it right were talking about professional footballers who should be more than capable if taking throw ins crossing,passing a football or taking corners and beating the first man. Hunt was excellent so was Glennon they've both dropped in quality of delivery and none if our other players look capable either what do we work on all week in training?

It's not exclusive to us though is it.

It goes on at all levels, right up to the highest level were the delivery of set-pieces can be absolutely urine poor.  

If I'm honest, it baffles me.  It feels absolutely basic, but something happens when players cross the white line and their ability to hit the targets in the box just disappears.  I can't imagine that in training all week Glennon, Hunt, whoever are hit and miss so we think we'll just hope it works out come game day.

Maybe it's like penalties and you can't replicate the match environment, maybe the set-piece takers just panic a bit and crumble.