Reports of sectarian and right wing chanting from a section of our support.

There is a simple way to stop this dead and that is for all of us Town fans to shout these proto fascists down. If 6000 Town fans turn on this nasty minority they will shut up. Bullies thrive on being allowed to do what they want to do and crumble when they are resisted.

Sectarianism has nothing to do with Grimsby. And we now have our most multi racial team ever(?).

It`s sometimes difficult to get players to come here and we can`t give black or Irish players another reason not to come.

Stand up to them. Shout them down.

We are Town, not protestant or Catholic, black or white, this or that. We are Town.

2 red crosses.

Come on, don`t hide behind your keyboard. Post a comment. Tell us why sectarian chanting is acceptable. If you can.

Clearly chanting of this nature is totally unacceptable and should be condemed whenever it rears its ugly head.

But how big a problem is this? When you say "reports" are these news reports or what?

It takes a brave man to challenge or shout down a mob of racists who are quick to violence.

You hear casual racism on a daily basis, especially at football matches and would spend half your life in arguments if you challenged every time.

Starts at the top, and many countries, ourselves included, are governed by right wing parties nowadays, which is alarming and history shows it rarely ends well.

The government spout right wing and racist bollox all the time. It's insidious.

Quoted from BobbyCummingsTackle

2 red crosses.

Come on, don`t hide behind your keyboard. Post a comment. Tell us why sectarian chanting is acceptable. If you can.

Indeed I 2nd you ...As I not the only one on here to have served "Over there!" and seen it for your own eyes So no thank you not welcome at my hometown team game / Fans.Footy Banter = Yes  (Scunny etc ) sectarianism and politics No way it makes my skin crawl.

Acceptability is one aspect of it. The one that I struggle with is relevancy? Why us? why now?

I always wonder if they’re just looking for that rise to get the scrap they’re after, don’t understand it at all though so I may be full of excrement.

Quoted from 140381

Acceptability is one aspect of it. The one that I struggle with is relevancy? Why us? why now?

I suspect it's mainly just that they're drunk/coked up morons.

Let me get this right, these morons support a team made up of players from…

Congo
Sudan
IRELAND
Pakistan
Sierra Leone

But also want their country back?!?

Wow.

People like this are what I (possibly unfairly?) imagine most of the crowd to be like at an Ingerland away game.

It’s all the more bizarre when we have a Kilkenny born player in our midfield and several other players with Irish ancestry.

It’s a good job they’ve never heard of Sierra Leone (they probably think it sits between the Ghia and the RS Cosworth in the Ford range) or Conteh would have to listen to weird chants about the Sierra Leone civil war.

Quoted from ginnywings

It takes a brave man to challenge or shout down a mob of racists who are quick to violence.

You hear casual racism on a daily basis, especially at football matches and would spend half your life in arguments if you challenged every time.

Starts at the top, and many countries, ourselves included, are governed by right wing parties nowadays, which is alarming and history shows it rarely ends well.

The government spout right wing and racist bollox all the time. It's insidious.

I've been going to BP for over 60 years and have never heard any fan make a racist comment, casual or otherwise in a conversation.

Hot heads as in this current guise will always be hot heads but I don't think that tars anybody else.

They are simpletons, probably never read a book in their lives or even watched a documentary. Absolute knuckle draggers

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

I've been going to BP for over 60 years and have never heard any fan make a racist comment, casual or otherwise in a conversation.

Hot heads as in this current guise will always be hot heads but I don't think that tars anybody else.

Indeed, before we all start self-flagellating ourselves let's ascertain how big a problem this really is. I have never heard sectarian chanting at Town. That's why I challenged OP on his definition of "reports" and what he really means by that (awaiting a reply on that).

Never heard anything on tv  thank goodness.

It must have been a few idiots that spoil it for all the good fans.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

I've been going to BP for over 60 years and have never heard any fan make a racist comment, casual or otherwise in a conversation.

Hot heads as in this current guise will always be hot heads but I don't think that tars anybody else.

...you must not sit in the lower then

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

I've been going to BP for over 60 years and have never heard any fan make a racist comment, casual or otherwise in a conversation.

Hot heads as in this current guise will always be hot heads but I don't think that tars anybody else.

Only around 40 years for me but I’ve heard it many times and always challenge it because if you just ignore it you are part of the problem. There simply no space for it. Whilst others may not be as happy to challenge it there and then, there are routes you can take. These arseholes don’t even know what they are chanting about, they are caught up in an Andrew Tate swirl of macho circle masturbations. Educate them whichever way you can.

Quoted from pizzzza

Indeed, before we all start self-flagellating ourselves let's ascertain how big a problem this really is. I have never heard sectarian chanting at Town. That's why I challenged OP on his definition of "reports" and what he really means by that (awaiting a reply on that).

I was stood on the concourse having a beer and there was a loud rendition of this https://youtube.com/shorts/WcWX4V8CJDU?si=QBwSnC64cSMCxOBF

Must have been in excess of a 100 joining in.  

Then there was maybe 30-40 blokes singing oh Tommy Robinson.

Not the first time I've heard either of these chants.

I can’t hear the words in that first Rangers song, but what the hell sectarian politics have to do with us I fail to understand. Just as bad is the reality of hearing anyone who supports Town singing ‘oh Tommy Robinson’. Absolutely f***ing moronic and sickening.

Quoted from headingly_mariner

I was stood on the concourse having a beer and there was a loud rendition of this https://youtube.com/shorts/WcWX4V8CJDU?si=QBwSnC64cSMCxOBF

Must have been in excess of a 100 joining in.  

Then there was maybe 30-40 blokes singing oh Tommy Robinson.

Not the first time I've heard either of these chants.

Pathetic.  I think the people who sing that song either don't realise, or just ignore that there are Terrorists on the other side too, like the UVF for instance.  Ever heard of the Shankill Butchers?  Look that up and see what barbarians they are.

Tommy Robinson too - just laughable. Can’t believe they haven’t found a new bloated coke head to adore….the guy is barely mentioned anywhere anymore. Especially seen as everyone knows he just fleeces his followers to fund his habit and lifestyle.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

I've been going to BP for over 60 years and have never heard any fan make a racist comment, casual or otherwise in a conversation.

Hot heads as in this current guise will always be hot heads but I don't think that tars anybody else.

Likewise. Where such behaviour occurs, the factors of socioeconomic groups, education, geographical isolation and youth will play a part. Those who wish to manipulate society will target these pockets and use them. Twas ever thus.

When life's basic needs are satisfied such insidious ploys wither and die. The French /Russian Revolutions and Nazism flourished out of hunger and social breakdown. The 'far right' gets some traction in countries like Germany, Spain and Italy where there is a history. Let's not confuse any isolated football yobbishness with the political Right.

Had a smashing holiday in Ireland this Spring. Lovely people but don't imagine they are immune from casual racism, perceived elites and employment gaps.
Their radio phone ins sounded just like ours.  

Quoted from Croxton

Likewise. Where such behaviour occurs, the factors of socioeconomic groups, education, geographical isolation and youth will play a part. Those who wish to manipulate society will target these pockets and use them. Twas ever thus.

When life's basic needs are satisfied such insidious ploys wither and die. The French /Russian Revolutions and Nazism flourished out of hunger and social breakdown. The 'far right' gets some traction in countries like Germany, Spain and Italy where there is a history. Let's not confuse any isolated football yobbishness with the political Right.

Had a smashing holiday in Ireland this Spring. Lovely people but don't imagine they are immune from casual racism, perceived elites and employment gaps.
Their radio phone ins sounded just like ours.  

I guess it depends in which Ireland you had your holiday in, The Republic/South of Ireland or Northern Ireland.  I would imagine you could go in almost any bar in the South and share a drink with the locals with no repercussions.  However, there are a couple of places in Londonderry  I would not recommend any Englishman going, and declaring he was English, if asked, and a stranger in those places more than likely would be.  In Belfast, I can think of at least 4 areas I would steer well clear of for the very same reason.  Some people still have a grudge to bear.

Quoted from pizzzza

Clearly chanting of this nature is totally unacceptable and should be condemed whenever it rears its ugly head.

But how big a problem is this? When you say "reports" are these news reports or what?

Read the threads about yesterday`s game on here.

3 pages in and we`re still waiting for someone to tell us why it`s ok to sing sectarian (and pro Tommy Robinson) songs while `supporting` Town.

The red crosses still keep coming.

Quoted from ginnywings

It takes a brave man to challenge or shout down a mob of racists who are quick to violence.

You hear casual racism on a daily basis, especially at football matches and would spend half your life in arguments if you challenged every time.

Starts at the top, and many countries, ourselves included, are governed by right wing parties nowadays, which is alarming and history shows it rarely ends well.

The government spout right wing and racist bollox all the time. It's insidious.

You are right, it is brave.

But as the poem says, when you need someone to speak out for you there may be nobody left.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

I've been going to BP for over 60 years and have never heard any fan make a racist comment, casual or otherwise in a conversation.

Hot heads as in this current guise will always be hot heads but I don't think that tars anybody else.

You have, you’ve probably just not noticed…

A bit like when Arthur and Conteh both got 20 yards from goal and people shouted shoot…they clearly thought it was Eisa…

Quoted from aldi_01

You have, you’ve probably just not noticed…

A bit like when Arthur and Conteh both got 20 yards from goal and people shouted shoot…they clearly thought it was Eisa…

I have to say...that is so accurate it is painful.

Quoted from aldi_01

You have, you’ve probably just not noticed…

A bit like when Arthur and Conteh both got 20 yards from goal and people shouted shoot…they clearly thought it was Eisa…

It's a very low bar indeed if possible mistaken identity of new players is considered racist by some.

Quoted from sam gy

Tommy Robinson too - just laughable. Can’t believe they haven’t found a new bloated coke head to adore….the guy is barely mentioned anywhere anymore. Especially seen as everyone knows he just fleeces his followers to fund his habit and lifestyle.

I’m no fan of Tommy but to say he’s not mentioned anymore his bollox , just cos they’ve shut down his mainstream media accounts doesn’t mean there isn’t other avenues he uses he does. The powers that be are petrified of him and I’ll mention when he was in hull nick not that long ago , my pal who works in there said it was handled like he was a terrorist.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

It's a very low bar indeed if possible mistaken identity of new players is considered racist by some.

Also difficult to make out names and numbers when it's red on black and white strips.

It's in all fan bases and it's wrong. If you hear it, report it.

Quoted from BobbyCummingsTackle

Reports of sectarian and right wing chanting from a section of our support.

There is a simple way to stop this dead and that is for all of us Town fans to shout these proto fascists down. If 6000 Town fans turn on this nasty minority they will shut up. Bullies thrive on being allowed to do what they want to do and crumble when they are resisted.

Sectarianism has nothing to do with Grimsby. And we now have our most multi racial team ever(?).

It`s sometimes difficult to get players to come here and we can`t give black or Irish players another reason not to come.

Stand up to them. Shout them down.

We are Town, not protestant or Catholic, black or white, this or that. We are Town.

What proof do you have for this accusation?
I was at the game and I didn't hear anything of what you are talking about.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

I've been going to BP for over 60 years and have never heard any fan make a racist comment, casual or otherwise in a conversation.

Hot heads as in this current guise will always be hot heads but I don't think that tars anybody else.

You must've attended your matches with headphones on then.

Quoted from TAGG

What proof do you have for this accusation?
I was at the game and I didn't hear anything of what you are talking about.

I`ve made no accusation whatsoever. I have commented on what others wrote in 2 other threads.

Completely different content but I see certain Chester fans are being widely criticised following their choice of song yesterday.
Down the years there have been numerous near the mark, sick , offensive chants around football....not just by ourselves or received by ourselves but I would think just about every football club in the country....Liverpool, Tottenham, Man Utd, Bradford have had taunts about their own tragic club events or even the holocaust.
I think these are largely on the wain compared to what I heard and in all honesty,  in some circumstances,  joined in with in 80's 90's.
The one in particular that stood out for me as being a particularly too far example was the Laws chant that a large majority sang at Glanford Park.

Quoted from 123614

I guess it depends in which Ireland you had your holiday in, The Republic/South of Ireland or Northern Ireland.  I would imagine you could go in almost any bar in the South and share a drink with the locals with no repercussions.  However, there are a couple of places in Londonderry  I would not recommend any Englishman going, and declaring he was English, if asked, and a stranger in those places more than likely would be.  In Belfast, I can think of at least 4 areas I would steer well clear of for the very same reason.  Some people still have a grudge to bear.

The Republic of Ireland. Chatting separately to two older locals near Tralee they were very concerned about how their Government was managing their 'quota' of asylum seekers and Ukrainians viz a viz impacts on local economies and communities. The one in his fifties was concerned about their education and health systems being overwhelmed.  

The 80 year old told how he was shocked to find 'two black men' walking towards him on his side of the street up in County Clare.
''If it gets much worse it will be like before when a few boys with rifles pop up from a ditch and sort it out.'' he said.

Both men managed to turn a generic conversation about the impact of lockdown on tourism to wider issues. They also signalled very gently that they were committed republicans and had spent much of their working lives in the U.K. They were much better informed about our history and politics than we are about Ireland..

All I would say to any first time visitors is do some homework before you go. Tourism is a huge part of the economy there. If you are a good listener they can't do enough for you.

Quoted from TAGG

What proof do you have for this accusation?
I was at the game and I didn't hear anything of what you are talking about.

Happened on the concourse in the side stand at half time. Saw and heard it while I was having a pint as I've already said. Few others in this thread heard it as well.

Quoted from moosey_club

Completely different content but I see certain Chester fans are being widely criticised following their choice of song yesterday.
Down the years there have been numerous near the mark, sick , offensive chants around football....not just by ourselves or received by ourselves but I would think just about every football club in the country....Liverpool, Tottenham, Man Utd, Bradford have had taunts about their own tragic club events or even the holocaust.
I think these are largely on the wain compared to what I heard and in all honesty,  in some circumstances,  joined in with in 80's 90's.
The one in particular that stood out for me as being a particularly too far example was the Laws chant that a large majority sang at Glanford Park.

I think the one at GP was a disgrace ( and I don’t say that very often).  The only mitigation for Town fans is that a lot of them joined in but didn’t know the actual circumstances.  
I presume that those hunting the Chester fans will also be hunting every fan that has chanted ‘Jimmy Saville he’s one of your own’ to Leeds fans.  

Quoted from dapperz fun pub

I’m no fan of Tommy but to say he’s not mentioned anymore his bollox , just cos they’ve shut down his mainstream media accounts doesn’t mean there isn’t other avenues he uses he does. The powers that be are petrified of him and I’ll mention when he was in hull nick not that long ago , my pal who works in there said it was handled like he was a terrorist.

He's an extremist and he plays on the fears of sad angry men to make a few quid.
It's a tragedy that people fall for all his nonsense.

Quoted from headingly_mariner

Happened on the concourse in the side stand at half time. Saw and heard it while I was having a pint as I've already said. Few others in this thread heard it as well.

Fair enough, I was behind the goal and didn't hear anything there.
Fukin idiots need a clip around the lug.

Five pages in and i still have no idea what chanting we are on about, we didn't hear anything

Quoted from headingly_mariner

I was stood on the concourse having a beer and there was a loud rendition of this https://youtube.com/shorts/WcWX4V8CJDU?si=QBwSnC64cSMCxOBF

Must have been in excess of a 100 joining in.  

Then there was maybe 30-40 blokes singing oh Tommy Robinson.

Not the first time I've heard either of these chants.

This was an early post in the thread so you can't have looked that hard.

I’ll be honest if I go watch town away I sit in the home end . Town do attract some absolute retards for the big away games

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

It's a very low bar indeed if possible mistaken identity of new players is considered racist by some.

It’s the entrenched racism you get in places like Grimsby, ya get it in places like Scunny and Lincoln too.

It can only be people not releasing they’re different, the players have different numbers, different boots and only Eisa has scored the worldies…

Quoted from aldi_01

It’s the entrenched racism you get in places like Grimsby, ya get it in places like Scunny and Lincoln too.

It can only be people not releasing they’re different, the players have different numbers, different boots and only Eisa has scored the worldies…

Ahh, you do that boot thing too! When my varifocals mist up I resort to Boot  I.D. I was even thinking of recommending it to J.T.

Have to say, When Rose, Clifton and Holohan are dashing around in a packed penalty area at the far end it helps to see who had a shot or won a corner.

When I saw your post, at first I thought, given your profession, you were about to point out an unfortunate irony contained in 'It Bites' post. But then you fell victim to the tyranny of PC speech.

Happens to us all.

Quoted from aldi_01

It’s the entrenched racism you get in places like Grimsby, ya get it in places like Scunny and Lincoln too.

It can only be people not releasing they’re different, the players have different numbers, different boots and only Eisa has scored the worldies…

I think your'e barking quite frankly. How many times do you hear people around you saying "who scored that?"

You can be 100 yards from the action, and it is often difficult to pick individual players out.

Quoted from aldi_01

It can only be people not releasing they’re different

Mistaken identity then...

Quoted from Croxton

Ahh, you do that boot thing too! When my varifocals mist up I resort to Boot  I.D. I was even thinking of recommending it to J.T.

Have to say, When Rose, Clifton and Holohan are dashing around in a packed penalty area at the far end it helps to see who had a shot or won a corner.

When I saw your post, at first I thought, given your profession, you were about to point out an unfortunate irony contained in 'It Bites' post. But then you fell victim to the tyranny of PC speech.

Happens to us all.

I can’t see the irony, I’d have to read the posts for that…

I've got my popcorn on repeat prescription as I can see this one overtaking the Scunthorpe thread

Quoted from GYinScuntland

I've got my popcorn on repeat prescription as I can see this one overtaking the Scunthorpe thread

When the Athletic article drops today, which it is allegedly going to do, the scunny thread will probably double in length.

Whilst I understand some posters on here will have reduced eyesight (or hearing based on some of the posts on this thread) or are less observant, it’s not that difficult to tell our players apart.

I’ve been away a lot and have only attended two matches in person so far. However, if you showed me a video silhouette of all of the Town players I’ve seen play this season, I’d be able to identify each one. People move in completely different ways.

As it appears to be our POC players who fans on here seem to struggle with the most, I’ve put together a handy guide below so you can recognise them from 70 yards away:

Gnahoua - left footed, which should be an easy differential for a start. Grealish vibes in that he leans forward when he runs / dribbles, so it looks like the ball is stuck under his feet. Shuffler.

Efete - right footed. Rigid, tight upper body - shades of Sandi Toksvig but not full on Gladstone Small. Clothes hangar still in his shirt. One ‘f’, one ‘t’, three ‘e’s.

Conteh - right footed. Squatter and with a hint of bow leg. Uses his sole / studs a lot. Like an 80s Game Boy character who’s slightly squashed to fit on to a smaller screen.

Eisa - right footed. More upright, like a graceful, prancing Lippizaner horse

I’m not sure if identifying Town players is a bit like Maths to some posters / fans. If you tell someone you’re going to give them a Maths puzzle they start panicking like Paul Reece at a corner. If you tell them it’s just a puzzle they get more excited than a dog on heat. If you open your eyes and mind, you’re never too old to learn.

Quoted from Knut Anders Fosters Voles

Whilst I understand some posters on here will have reduced eyesight (or hearing based on some of the posts on this thread) or are less observant, it’s not that difficult to tell our players apart.

I’ve been away a lot and have only attended two matches in person so far. However, if you showed me a video silhouette of all of the Town players I’ve seen play this season, I’d be able to identify each one. People move in completely different ways.

As it appears to be our POC players who fans on here seem to struggle with the most, I’ve put together a handy guide below so you can recognise them from 70 yards away:

Gnahoua - left footed, which should be an easy differential for a start. Grealish vibes in that he leans forward when he runs / dribbles, so it looks like the ball is stuck under his feet. Shuffler.

Efete - right footed. Rigid, tight upper body - shades of Sandi Toksvig but not full on Gladstone Small. Clothes hangar still in his shirt. One ‘f’, one ‘t’, three ‘e’s.

Conteh - right footed. Squatter and with a hint of bow leg. Uses his sole / studs a lot. Like an 80s Game Boy character who’s slightly squashed to fit on to a smaller screen.

Eisa - right footed. More upright, like a graceful, prancing Lippizaner horse

I’m not sure if identifying Town players is a bit like Maths to some posters / fans. If you tell someone you’re going to give them a Maths puzzle they start panicking like Paul Reece at a corner. If you tell them it’s just a puzzle they get more excited than a dog on heat. If you open your eyes and mind, you’re never too old to learn.

Very droll. You should drop the club a line and get them to produce an easy guide to running style for all new players at the start of each season, so there is no chance whatsoever of anyone under any circumstances making an innocent mistake.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Very droll. You should drop the club a line and get them to produce an easy guide to running style for all new players at the start of each season, so there is no chance whatsoever of anyone under any circumstances making an innocent mistake.

I did drop Jason a line actually. He replied, thanked me, told me I was special and then offered to write an article about me.

Anyway, since when has suggesting Waterfall (*) runs like a kangaroo ever got you 3 points of contact on the ground at any one time.


* clearly, Waterfall is like a meerkat when at rest. Surveying the defence at set pieces like comparethemarking.com

It’s not just the likes of Derry/londonderry or east/west Belfast that sectarianism or pro/anti republicanism is to be found around the Ulster Provence. A shooting of a psni officer in Strabane by ira sympathisers, the hounding of ex Larne footballer John Herron for wearing an ‘up the ra’ T-shirt, pro ira chanting at Wolfe tones concerts, shops refusing to sell poppies, there is a hell of a lot of animosity found in the north. Yet, I work/worked with people that leer at ‘English/British’ people and when questioned why they support man utd, Liverpool etc they say it’s only football!

The vast majority of people I speak to here, don’t want to go back to times when there were checkpoints on roads, soldiers on the streets and daily death counts. But, unfortunately there are tw@ts that are brought up idolising the past and fed poisonous drivel. We still have trouble here in Derry/londonderry, almost every week, but while the MLA’s (local mp’s) refuse to go back to govern at Stormont and everything is blamed on the British government, there is no funding to try to right the wrongs.

Quoted from Knut Anders Fosters Voles

Whilst I understand some posters on here will have reduced eyesight (or hearing based on some of the posts on this thread) or are less observant, it’s not that difficult to tell our players apart.

I’ve been away a lot and have only attended two matches in person so far. However, if you showed me a video silhouette of all of the Town players I’ve seen play this season, I’d be able to identify each one. People move in completely different ways.

As it appears to be our POC players who fans on here seem to struggle with the most, I’ve put together a handy guide below so you can recognise them from 70 yards away:

Gnahoua - left footed, which should be an easy differential for a start. Grealish vibes in that he leans forward when he runs / dribbles, so it looks like the ball is stuck under his feet. Shuffler.

Efete - right footed. Rigid, tight upper body - shades of Sandi Toksvig but not full on Gladstone Small. Clothes hangar still in his shirt. One ‘f’, one ‘t’, three ‘e’s.

Conteh - right footed. Squatter and with a hint of bow leg. Uses his sole / studs a lot. Like an 80s Game Boy character who’s slightly squashed to fit on to a smaller screen.

Eisa - right footed. More upright, like a graceful, prancing Lippizaner horse

I’m not sure if identifying Town players is a bit like Maths to some posters / fans. If you tell someone you’re going to give them a Maths puzzle they start panicking like Paul Reece at a corner. If you tell them it’s just a puzzle they get more excited than a dog on heat. If you open your eyes and mind, you’re never too old to learn.

Not sure why Aldi and yourself are trying to skew this thread (title Sectarian chanting) based on alleged cries of 'shoot,' towards a conclusion that Town fans are racist if they genuinely misidentify a player.

Your own post is hardly an inclusive piece is it? What about the nameless one? What about a helpful guide to the body shape and running styles of non POC players? I struggle a lot more with Holohan, Clifton and Rose.

There are some serious issues with the behaviour of a section of our away following, not least pyros, but casting aspersions on those who 'are never too old to learn' is your priority?

Anyway is the jury still out on using boot colour?  If I yell shoot to 'Gav' but it is really Rose am I racist?

There is no basis in this thread for your premise that actual posters struggle more identifying POC's.

Quoted from Croxton

Not sure why Aldi and yourself are trying to skew this thread (title Sectarian chanting) based on alleged cries of 'shoot,' towards a conclusion that Town fans are racist if they genuinely misidentify a player.

Your own post is hardly an inclusive piece is it? What about the nameless one? What about a helpful guide to the body shape and running styles of non POC players? I struggle a lot more with Holohan, Clifton and Rose.

There are some serious issues with the behaviour of a section of our away following, not least pyros, but casting aspersions on those who 'are never too old to learn' is your priority?

Anyway is the jury still out on using boot colour?  If I yell shoot to 'Gav' but it is really Rose am I racist?

There is no basis in this thread for your premise that actual posters struggle more identifying POC's.

Thank god we haven’t got Newcastle away anytime soon!

What are POCs?

Quoted from chaos33

What are POCs?

Persons/people of colour.

Quoted from WOZOFGRIMSBY

It’s not just the likes of Derry/londonderry or east/west Belfast that sectarianism or pro/anti republicanism is to be found around the Ulster Provence. A shooting of a psni officer in Strabane by ira sympathisers, the hounding of ex Larne footballer John Herron for wearing an ‘up the ra’ T-shirt, pro ira chanting at Wolfe tones concerts, shops refusing to sell poppies, there is a hell of a lot of animosity found in the north. Yet, I work/worked with people that leer at ‘English/British’ people and when questioned why they support man utd, Liverpool etc they say it’s only football!

The vast majority of people I speak to here, don’t want to go back to times when there were checkpoints on roads, soldiers on the streets and daily death counts. But, unfortunately there are tw@ts that are brought up idolising the past and fed poisonous drivel. We still have trouble here in Derry/londonderry, almost every week, but while the MLA’s (local mp’s) refuse to go back to govern at Stormont and everything is blamed on the British government, there is no funding to try to right the wrongs.

TBH mate, no amount of funding is going to 'right the wrongs' in that City divided geographically by the River Foyle and by the hatred between the two communities that rears it's head most during the marching season.  Obviously things have quietened down massively since I served there but there are still those few who can't let it go.

Quoted from 123614

TBH mate, no amount of funding is going to 'right the wrongs' in that City divided geographically by the River Foyle and by the hatred between the two communities that rears it's head most during the marching season.  Obviously things have quietened down massively since I served there but there are still those few who can't let it go.

Eventually there will be a united Ireland, it will take time, perhaps many years, but it will happen. The key challenge will be to accommodate the culture and tradition of the Protestant community, but eventually the lyrics of the equal greatest band known to humanity, Stiff Little Fingers, will come to pass. By then, all the young people will just think about the sort of things the other equal greatest band, The Undertones, sang about (have to award the honours equally between Belfast and Derry…) - the right kind of Teenage Kicks…

I feel I need to confess, in 2009 I thought Lee Peacock went up for a header.

However, it was in fact Tommy Wright.

At the time I just presumed it was a case of mistaken identify in the moment owing to their marginal similar appearance and the numerous players in my line of sight between the player in question.   Thank you to this thread for pointing out that I'm actually a racist.  

Quoted from 123614

TBH mate, no amount of funding is going to 'right the wrongs' in that City divided geographically by the River Foyle and by the hatred between the two communities that rears it's head most during the marching season.  Obviously things have quietened down massively since I served there but there are still those few who can't let it go.

It hasn’t quietened down at all. It’s just the MSM don’t cover it anymore. Lyra McKee was shot and killed and it was covered slightly. John Caldwell shot at a kids, yes KIDS football training session, paramilitary ‘kneecappings’ happen frequently. But, you don’t see immense coverage on the bbc or sky news as they think no one cares.

Am proud to be part northern Irish (my grandfather was from omagh) and proud to be a Protestant with a catholic wife. I didn’t grow up during ‘the troubles’ but, I was 100m away from a car bomb in Ealing. Do I hold a grudge? Not overly really. Am just enjoying living in such a stunning location.


(Plus the Guinness in the free state (republic) is awesome)

There's nothing more ridiculous than the pathetic sectarian conflict Rangers and Celtic supporters engage in. More so as it is based on archaic institutions and religion rather than actual football or even location.

Quoted from Croxton

What about a helpful guide to the body shape and running styles of non POC players? I struggle a lot more with Holohan, Clifton and Rose.

Fair enough.

Holohan - glides across the turf like someone who knows he’s going to miss the bus, but isn’t going to go full pelt in case he misses it and he looks like a missed-bus-wänker. Mr Soft from the Trebor Softmints advert. Dark hair. Right footed. One ‘a’ in surname but two in his gavan name.

Clifton - like a jerky Duracell bunny. As if he’s working in the docks and has spotted some worms in a box of cod that’s being sent out to Yorkshire. Doesn’t know whether to leave it and let it go, or get his tweezers out to pluck the wriggly fückers out. Right-footed and hair the colour of pre-harvest rice terraces.

Rose - spends most of his time springing around like a Thomson’s gazelle or writhing around on the floor like one of Clifton’s cod worms. Bustling running style like he’s off to post a letter whilst licking the envelope at the same time. One man dervish. Hair the colour of sea otter pelt with a lovely springy bounce. Karl-Heinz Riedle of the the lower leagues.

Quoted from Knut Anders Fosters Voles

Fair enough.

Holohan - glides across the turf like someone who knows he’s going to miss the bus, but isn’t going to go full pelt in case he misses it and he looks like a missed-bus-wänker. Mr Soft from the Trebor Softmints advert. Dark hair. Right footed. One ‘a’ in surname but two in his gavan name.

Clifton - like a jerky Duracell bunny. As if he’s working in the docks and has spotted some worms in a box of cod that’s being sent out to Yorkshire. Doesn’t know whether to leave it and let it go, or get his tweezers out to pluck the wriggly fückers out. Right-footed and hair the colour of pre-harvest rice terraces.

Rose - spends most of his time springing around like a Thomson’s gazelle or writhing around on the floor like one of Clifton’s cod worms. Bustling running style like he’s off to post a letter whilst licking the envelope at the same time. One man dervish. Hair the colour of sea otter pelt with a lovely springy bounce. Karl-Heinz Riedle of the the lower leagues.

You need to be submitting these to codalmighty! These are superb and certainly cheering me up on this rainy day

I’d love a season on season account of each player starting about 1985ish. Keep up the good work

A+

Quoted from WOZOFGRIMSBY

It hasn’t quietened down at all. It’s just the MSM don’t cover it anymore. Lyra McKee was shot and killed and it was covered slightly. John Caldwell shot at a kids, yes KIDS football training session, paramilitary ‘kneecappings’ happen frequently. But, you don’t see immense coverage on the bbc or sky news as they think no one cares.

Am proud to be part northern Irish (my grandfather was from omagh) and proud to be a Protestant with a catholic wife. I didn’t grow up during ‘the troubles’ but, I was 100m away from a car bomb in Ealing. Do I hold a grudge? Not overly really. Am just enjoying living in such a stunning location.


(Plus the Guinness in the free state (republic) is awesome)

When I say 'quietened down', I'm referring to much, much less trouble than when I served in Londonderry 1970/72 and in 1979 in the New Lodge in Belfast.  Other tours in Portadown and Enniskillen were less troublesome.

Quoted from WOZOFGRIMSBY

Am proud to be part northern Irish (my grandfather was from omagh) and proud to be a Protestant with a catholic wife.

I thought you were 100% Afrikaner?

Quoted from diehardmariner

I feel I need to confess, in 2009 I thought Lee Peacock went up for a header.

However, it was in fact Tommy Wright.

At the time I just presumed it was a case of mistaken identify in the moment owing to their marginal similar appearance and the numerous players in my line of sight between the player in question.   Thank you to this thread for pointing out that I'm actually a racist.  

Easy mistake to make but:

Tommy Wright - jumped and ‘sprinted’ like he was wearing Lederhosen. Like an early joypad where he could only manipulate himself in vertical or horizontal lines - no diagonal movement, but in those leather pants, who would?

Lee Peacock - like Gareth Barry had a really heavy stag do and woke up like a hermit crab trapped in a Ming vase. Ran like if the porcelain cracked the crowd would see he was actually tied stark bòllock naked to a telegraph pole. Pigeon chested but in a pointy way - nipples suspiciously close together, if boss-eyed nipples are a thing. Right footed. No eyebrows.

The problem with the sectarianism is the arseholes on both sides of the political divide. Incredible to think that all this dates back to the time of Cromwell - probably a bit earlier, in fact.

The vast majority of folk just want to get on with their lives, but there are always some who are so bigoted/indoctrinated, that they just want to 'win' and don't care about peace, even hundreds of years later.

Notable that the situation in N.I. has been inflamed by Johnson's self-serving Brexit 'deal' which was only ever going to cause problems, given the political situation over there.

As for sectarian chanting at GTFC matches, the mind boggles as to why such a thing would take place. The Good Friday agreement was signed 25 years ago and basically has intercourse all to do with N.E. Lincs in any case.

I remember cringing when watching England vs Germany in a Dutch pub during Euro 2000. Loads of singing of "No Surrender to the IRA". While watching a game which had absolutely nothing to do with Ireland or anything! Absolute cretins.

Let's face it, 100% of the people who are singing those songs will have absolutely no idea the meaning behind them!

I'm not defending them because it's a moronic chant, but they might as well be singing Nellie the Elephant.  

Quoted from Knut Anders Fosters Voles

Easy mistake to make but:

Tommy Wright - jumped and ‘sprinted’ like he was wearing Lederhosen. Like an early joypad where he could only manipulate himself in vertical or horizontal lines - no diagonal movement, but in those leather pants, who would?

Lee Peacock - like Gareth Barry had a really heavy stag do and woke up like a hermit crab trapped in a Ming vase. Ran like if the porcelain cracked the crowd would see he was actually tied stark bòllock naked to a telegraph pole. Pigeon chested but in a pointy way - nipples suspiciously close together, if boss-eyed nipples are a thing. Right footed. No eyebrows.

Very good!

Quoted from Manchester Mariner

There's nothing more ridiculous than the pathetic sectarian conflict Rangers and Celtic supporters engage in. More so as it is based on archaic institutions and religion rather than actual football or even location.

I would say that there is one more ridiculous thing: non Rangers and Celtic fans supporting these teams like a 2nd team!

Quoted from Knut Anders Fosters Voles

Fair enough.

Holohan - glides across the turf like someone who knows he’s going to miss the bus, but isn’t going to go full pelt in case he misses it and he looks like a missed-bus-wänker. Mr Soft from the Trebor Softmints advert. Dark hair. Right footed. One ‘a’ in surname but two in his gavan name.

Clifton - like a jerky Duracell bunny. As if he’s working in the docks and has spotted some worms in a box of cod that’s being sent out to Yorkshire. Doesn’t know whether to leave it and let it go, or get his tweezers out to pluck the wriggly fückers out. Right-footed and hair the colour of pre-harvest rice terraces.

Rose - spends most of his time springing around like a Thomson’s gazelle or writhing around on the floor like one of Clifton’s cod worms. Bustling running style like he’s off to post a letter whilst licking the envelope at the same time. One man dervish. Hair the colour of sea otter pelt with a lovely springy bounce. Karl-Heinz Riedle of the the lower leagues.

Please, a little late in the day I know but I'd appreciate a detailed description of the oddly-waddling Rob Eagle from way back.
Just for archival purposes, like.

Quoted from HatTrickHero

Please, a little late in the day I know but I'd appreciate a detailed description of the oddly-waddling Rob Eagle from way back.
Just for archival purposes, like.

While we are about it, although of different eras, but how could one tell the difference between Clive Wiggington, Paul Futcher and Mark Lever…

Quoted from Knut Anders Fosters Voles

Fair enough.

Holohan - glides across the turf like someone who knows he’s going to miss the bus, but isn’t going to go full pelt in case he misses it and he looks like a missed-bus-wänker. Mr Soft from the Trebor Softmints advert. Dark hair. Right footed. One ‘a’ in surname but two in his gavan name.

Clifton - like a jerky Duracell bunny. As if he’s working in the docks and has spotted some worms in a box of cod that’s being sent out to Yorkshire. Doesn’t know whether to leave it and let it go, or get his tweezers out to pluck the wriggly fückers out. Right-footed and hair the colour of pre-harvest rice terraces.

Rose - spends most of his time springing around like a Thomson’s gazelle or writhing around on the floor like one of Clifton’s cod worms. Bustling running style like he’s off to post a letter whilst licking the envelope at the same time. One man dervish. Hair the colour of sea otter pelt with a lovely springy bounce. Karl-Heinz Riedle of the the lower leagues.

I'll make it plain seeing as you only choose to continue your class clown riff for your fanboys.

Where was the evidence that fishy posters could not identify POC's?
Where do you stand on using colour of boots as mentioned by Aldi and myself?
Why ignore the OP's title thread 'Sectarian Chanting'?
Why adopt the racist? trope about Gladstone Small's neck and Sandi Toksvig (misogyny?) to get a laugh?

If you are going to use humour to mock fellow posters and players then you have to tread carefully. I am sure you disapproved of some of the Twitter comments when Andrews signed.  I am equally sure you have a more serious alter ego more appropriate for debating these issues.

Edit :-

Gladstone Small had Kippel Fell syndrome.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gladstone_Small

Quoted from Croxton

Where was the evidence that fishy posters could not identify POC's?  Posts 25, 26, 28 and 30 on this thread. None of those posts are racist or imply racism - they just point out that some fans do struggle to identify our players


Where do you stand on using colour of boots as mentioned by Aldi and myself? I wouldn’t wear non-black boots personally

Why ignore the OP's title thread 'Sectarian Chanting'?
I didn’t. See post 10

Why adopt the racist? trope about Gladstone Small's neck and Sandi Toksvig (misogyny?) to get a laugh? There is no evidence - that I have seen - that Klippel-Feil syndrome affects POC more than other ethnicities. Likewise, Sandi Toksvig does have high shoulders relative to her neck. Whilst that may be offensive, I’m not sure it is misogyny.

If you are going to use humour to mock fellow posters and players then you have to tread carefully. I am sure you disapproved of some of the Twitter comments when Andrews signed.I did disapprove but I also gold starred Woz’s post. I apologise for this moment of weakness.

Edit :-

Gladstone Small had Kippel Fell syndrome.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gladstone_Small

Noted re Klippel-Feil (I think Kippel Fell is a Wainwright) and I shall wind my neck in.

Quoted from ginnywings

It takes a brave man to challenge or shout down a mob of racists who are quick to violence.

You hear casual racism on a daily basis, especially at football matches and would spend half your life in arguments if you challenged every time.

Starts at the top, and many countries, ourselves included, are governed by right wing parties nowadays, which is alarming and history shows it rarely ends well.

The government spout right wing and racist bollox all the time. It's insidious.

The Government who are lead by a man of Asian decent, the first ethnic minority leader our country has ever had!

[quote=140633][/quote]

Line drawn with sharp pencil and old school ruler.

Quoted from Azimuth

The Government who are lead by a man of Asian decent, the first ethnic minority leader our country has ever had!

Asian descent, yes.

Decent Asian, no.  ;)

It's kind of laughable to see somebody defending the current Tory government using the race card when Braverman is such an appalling bigot who is dogwhistling pretty much every day. That's nothing to do with her skin colour of course. It's because she's an awful person.

Quoted from BobbyCummingsTackle

2 red crosses.

Come on, don`t hide behind your keyboard. Post a comment. Tell us why sectarian chanting is acceptable. If you can.

Never heard it but due you call out any abusive chanting such as "we're the boys from Grimsby who the intercourse are you"

Quoted from arryarryarry

Never heard it but due you call out any abusive chanting such as "we're the boys from Grimsby who the intercourse are you"

That's just not even nearly the same is it.

Quoted from arryarryarry

Never heard it but due you call out any abusive chanting such as "we're the boys from Grimsby who the intercourse are you"

I genuinely despair.

Quoted from arryarryarry

Never heard it but due you call out any abusive chanting such as "we're the boys from Grimsby who the intercourse are you"

What absolute b0llocks

Quoted from arryarryarry

Never heard it but due you call out any abusive chanting such as "we're the boys from Grimsby who the intercourse are you"

We don’t always agree, but I’d support your right to an opinion…however, this isn’t even close to the same thing…

Quoted from BobbyCummingsTackle

Persons/people of colour.

Which I think is a bit dated as a term and is increasingly being moved away from. I think a few issues with it it's basically a term to describe people as non-white as if white is some accepted default. Secondly, it completely ignores the fact that black people will have different experiences from Asian people, and it oversimplifies their experience. There is racism black people face that Asian people may not in certain areas, and vice versa. For example in recruitment, if 10% of employees are Asian, and 90%, that isn't diverse and shouldn't be used to suggest that POC are effectively represented.

People don't think it's offensive to mistake black people for another. It absolutely is. It fits into that racist stereotype of people of a different race all looking the same, which is completely unacceptable. You should be recognised for you abilities and talents as a person. I hate that I have to spell that out.

When I see people deny it is offensive, I just read it that people feel that and defend that like it's acceptable. Bloody uncomfortable reading.

Quoted from AncientExiledMariner

People don't think it's offensive to mistake black people for another. It absolutely is. It fits into that racist stereotype of people of a different race all looking the same, which is completely unacceptable. You should be recognised for you abilities and talents as a person. I hate that I have to spell that out.

When I see people deny it is offensive, I just read it that people feel that and defend that like it's acceptable. Bloody uncomfortable reading.

It's not in the least offensive, it is a case of mistaken identity as has been described. You are looking for something that isn't there. If any of our players receives or complains of any racist behaviour from anyone at the club or fans then it is unacceptable and they will face the consequences.

There has been countless occasions I can remember a white player being castigated by someone in the crowd only for someone to tell them they've got the wrong player.

Go on then: give us three examples.

Quoted from AncientExiledMariner

People don't think it's offensive to mistake black people for another. It absolutely is. It fits into that racist stereotype of people of a different race all looking the same, which is completely unacceptable. You should be recognised for you abilities and talents as a person. I hate that I have to spell that out.

When I see people deny it is offensive, I just read it that people feel that and defend that like it's acceptable. Bloody uncomfortable reading.

What about Rose, Clifton and Holohan getting mistaken for each other as mentioned earlier in the thread.
Is that racist?
If that was done by someone who wasn't white would that be racist?

I'm not doubting racism is still a huge problem but I don't agree that it is relevant in these circumstances.

Quoted from ginnywings

Asian descent, yes.

Decent Asian, no.  ;)

Decent or not he is still Asian Descent, with seven member of the cabinet of minority ethnic backgrounds, so whatever your views to call the government Racist is a ill informed and utterly ridiculous statement.

Interesting about Asian on Asian racists. It happens, Previous holiday in Sri Lanka, Indian customer at hotel hurled all sorts of abuse at a Tamil waiter who got an order wrong and it related to his state of origin (South India)/religion/caste what was being said. Theres racists among every race and just because you are black/asian/other from one country does not mean you cannot be racist re. people of similar skin colour/continent etc. Is Rishi racist ? who knows, its not obvious if he is.

Quoted from Azimuth

Decent or not he is still Asian Descent, with seven member of the cabinet of minority ethnic backgrounds, so whatever your views to call the government Racist is a ill informed and utterly ridiculous statement.

Their rhetoric is racist, as are many of their policies. It doesn't matter what creed or colour the people running the show are, it's their actions that count.

Recent example:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/sep/11/voter-id-in-england-led-to-racial-and-disability-discrimination-report-finds

The Voter ID law (which wasn't necessary, given the vanishingly small number of cases of voter fraud in this country), has led to a greater risk of ethnic minorities being disenfranchised than white voters. Do the ethnic minority politicians in the government care about this? Of course not! They passed the law to deliberately suppress the vote of those who are never likely to vote Tory. They don't care who gets disenfranchised as long as they aren't losing more votes than the opposition. If it turns out that the law discriminates against ethnic minorities, so be it, as far as they are concerned. That's a racist policy.

Quoted from Maringer

Their rhetoric is racist, as are many of their policies. It doesn't matter what creed or colour the people running the show are, it's their actions that count.

Recent example:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/sep/11/voter-id-in-england-led-to-racial-and-disability-discrimination-report-finds

The Voter ID law (which wasn't necessary, given the vanishingly small number of cases of voter fraud in this country), has led to a greater risk of ethnic minorities being disenfranchised than white voters. Do the ethnic minority politicians in the government care about this? Of course not! They passed the law to deliberately suppress the vote of those who are never likely to vote Tory. They don't care who gets disenfranchised as long as they aren't losing more votes than the opposition. If it turns out that the law discriminates against ethnic minorities, so be it, as far as they are concerned. That's a racist policy.

If! So in one sentence you say they passed the law to 'deliberately suppress those who are never likely to vote Tory'.   But in another, you say IF it turns out that the law discriminates against ethnic minorities, so be it, as far as they are concerned.  So you don't really know who might not vote Tory, and neither do the Government.

Quoted from Azimuth

Decent or not he is still Asian Descent, with seven member of the cabinet of minority ethnic backgrounds, so whatever your views to call the government Racist is a ill informed and utterly ridiculous statement.

You carry on telling yourself that, but there is plenty of evidence to the contrary, so I'm not as ill informed as you suggest.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

It's not in the least offensive, it is a case of mistaken identity as has been described. You are looking for something that isn't there. If any of our players receives or complains of any racist behaviour from anyone at the club or fans then it is unacceptable and they will face the consequences.

There has been countless occasions I can remember a white player being castigated by someone in the crowd only for someone to tell them they've got the wrong player.

It's always interesting when you see English folk trying to say what is or isn't racism. Or that it doesn't exist. Often it's subtle, and you don't experience it. I've heard the other side and have many friends that have experience it. It's not the constant throwing around of words, it's being treated different. Being held to a different standard.

Mistaken identity happens, but it happens more frequently for black players. Many black people in many walks of life talk about how deflating it is to get called the name of another black person. Sometimes there is no effort to learn names, to see the person behind. Sometimes it's intentional. Keep arguing and debating. We can pretend racism doesn't exist...

A little context outside football: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/12/black-mps-tell-of-being-confused-with-other-politicians

Countless other examples.

Back in 1969 when I joined the Army, we had a black guy in our Platoon who ended up becoming one of my best mates.  In the Army EVERONE gets a nickname, his was Snowball, which he had no problem answering too,  He still answered to it 40 years later when we met at annual reunions.  My nickname was Camel, I took no offence to that whatsoever, another mate hade the pleasure of being called Donkey, again no problem for him.  I remember a couple of guys who were Scottish and were given the nickname Jock!  Should any of these be called racist?  No, they shouldn't, they were not meant to ridicule anyone, they were simply pet names for our friends.

My nickname was Camel, I took no offence to that whatsoever..

Damn, a reference to not taking the hump would have had me smashing the Gold Star button for that post..

Quoted from AncientExiledMariner

It's always interesting when you see English folk trying to say what is or isn't racism. Or that it doesn't exist. Often it's subtle, and you don't experience it. I've heard the other side and have many friends that have experience it. It's not the constant throwing around of words, it's being treated different. Being held to a different standard.

Mistaken identity happens, but it happens more frequently for black players. Many black people in many walks of life talk about how deflating it is to get called the name of another black person. Sometimes there is no effort to learn names, to see the person behind. Sometimes it's intentional. Keep arguing and debating. We can pretend racism doesn't exist...

A little context outside football: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/12/black-mps-tell-of-being-confused-with-other-politicians

Countless other examples.

I'm not arguing there isn't racism which obviously happens all over the world to every colour race and creed.

What I am arguing for is some reasonableness in that during a 4th division football match some fans who weren't up to speed on all the new players and mistook one player for another. No racism was meant nor perceived. No offence of any kind was committed yet according to some that isn't enough. Its subtle racism, under the radar racism but it's not, it is just mistaken identity, just as you mistook me for an English white man.

OK, I am an English white man but had I not been I certainly wouldn't be calling you out as a racist because I would have a sense of proportion about it.

Quoted from 123614

Back in 1969 when I joined the Army, we had a black guy in our Platoon who ended up becoming one of my best mates.  In the Army EVERONE gets a nickname, his was Snowball, which he had no problem answering too,  He still answered to it 40 years later when we met at annual reunions.  My nickname was Camel, I took no offence to that whatsoever, another mate hade the pleasure of being called Donkey, again no problem for him.  I remember a couple of guys who were Scottish and were given the nickname Jock!  Should any of these be called racist?  No, they shouldn't, they were not meant to ridicule anyone, they were simply pet names for our friends.

Camel and Donkey, were you recreating the birth of Christ?

Quoted from AncientExiledMariner

It's always interesting when you see English folk trying to say what is or isn't racism. Or that it doesn't exist. Often it's subtle, and you don't experience it. I've heard the other side and have many friends that have experience it. It's not the constant throwing around of words, it's being treated different. Being held to a different standard.

Mistaken identity happens, but it happens more frequently for black players. Many black people in many walks of life talk about how deflating it is to get called the name of another black person. Sometimes there is no effort to learn names, to see the person behind. Sometimes it's intentional. Keep arguing and debating. We can pretend racism doesn't exist...

A little context outside football: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/12/black-mps-tell-of-being-confused-with-other-politicians

Countless other examples.

Apologies for adding to what has become a rather silly thread but should point out you've made a racist statement yourself there. You've presumed and then stated that 'English folk' are white. That is the basis of the racist thought process you're lecturing everyone else about.

Quoted from Hagrid

Camel and Donkey, were you recreating the birth of Christ?

Sounds like they might’ve struggled to find 3 wise men.

Quoted from 123614

If! So in one sentence you say they passed the law to 'deliberately suppress those who are never likely to vote Tory'.   But in another, you say IF it turns out that the law discriminates against ethnic minorities, so be it, as far as they are concerned.  So you don't really know who might not vote Tory, and neither do the Government.

The report indicates that the law discriminates against ethnic minorities. And everyone knew this would be the case before it was passed. Polling doesn't lie and we've got a very good grasp of which way ethnic groups will vote in any given election. The second if what a rhetorical device. To make it clearer for you:

WHEN you pass a law which you know will be discriminatory against some ethnic groups, even as a side effect of the intent, it's a racist law.

Still amazes me how many people are happy to endlessly punch down or defend those politicians who punch downwards.

For those who can be bothered, do a bit of reading on the ‘other race effect’.

And let’s stop all this nonsense that someone who misidentifies a player of a different colour who is a good distance away and, more likely than not, moving around is automatically a racist.

Quoted from Yarborough Vaults

Apologies for adding to what has become a rather silly thread but should point out you've made a racist statement yourself there. You've presumed and then stated that 'English folk' are white. That is the basis of the racist thought process you're lecturing everyone else about.

Areas like Grimsby, are predominantly white. I think there 1 was BAME individual in my whole school year. Statistically, on a Grimsby forum, it isn't an unreasonable assumption to make, tied with the fact the people in question think it's fine to mistake the identity of people from different backgrounds makes it pretty obvious. Secondly, any Grimsby fan justifying mistaken identity of black players is highly unlikely to to have any awareness of the experiences of people from different backgrounds.

Debating racism isn't silly. The fact you think respect for people of different backgrounds is silly says everything it needs to about you. You've gone out of your way with what you feel is a clever comment. Very motivated to shut that debate down. Does discussing the problem of racism make you uncomfortable? Would you rather people didn't talk about it at all? Are you more than happy with the status quo?

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

I'm not arguing there isn't racism which obviously happens all over the world to every colour race and creed.

What I am arguing for is some reasonableness in that during a 4th division football match some fans who weren't up to speed on all the new players and mistook one player for another. No racism was meant nor perceived. No offence of any kind was committed yet according to some that isn't enough. Its subtle racism, under the radar racism but it's not, it is just mistaken identity, just as you mistook me for an English white man.

OK, I am an English white man but had I not been I certainly wouldn't be calling you out as a racist because I would have a sense of proportion about it.

I didn't call you a racist. I spelled out why it was problematic as it clearly wasn't obvious to some in this thread. Re-read my post again, and you'll realise you've taken it wrong.

Quoted from cardiffmariner

For those who can be bothered, do a bit of reading on the ‘other race effect’.

And let’s stop all this nonsense that someone who misidentifies a player of a different colour who is a good distance away and, more likely than not, moving around is automatically a racist.

For someone bothered to do reading on racism, and the only material they found was that racism is fine probably needs to do a wee bit more reading.

Quoted from cardiffmariner

For those who can be bothered, do a bit of reading on the ‘other race effect’.

And let’s stop all this nonsense that someone who misidentifies a player of a different colour who is a good distance away and, more likely than not, moving around is automatically a racist.

I can see why you would highlight this phenomenon as an innocent way to mistakenly identity players on a pitch. Because it’s based predominantly on facial recognition is it applicable in a situation in which someone is too far away, to see facial features and reliance for recognition is based purely on running gait and playing style? (Thanks Knut)

Applied superficially I can see the merit in your point but equally, I’m not sure the ‘other race effect’ is a particularly good example to use here, given the fact that racism can play it’s part in its origins too.

I think some people just go looking for racism! Misidentifying a black player is now racist FFS!
The fishy hand wringing liberals reach a whole new level of wokeism.🤣

As the brilliant Morgan Freeman once said when asked how to stop racism…. “Stop talking about it!”

Quoted from AncientExiledMariner

I didn't call you a racist. I spelled out why it was problematic as it clearly wasn't obvious to some in this thread. Re-read my post again, and you'll realise you've taken it wrong.

It's not problematic because it is a case of mistaken identity.

You keep banging on about it being problematic but there has not been any case of racism reported, and obviously it is illegal and would be dealt with by the authorities if there ever was a case reported.

You seem to be fighting a non existent battle because Grimsby is "predominantly white" and therefore you seem to feel we should be made aware of our inner racism for some bizarre reason.

I for one am not standing for it. Its people like you who are looking for things that are not there, trying to make normal decent people feel they are walking a tightrope without any sense of proportion.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

It's not problematic because it is a case of mistaken identity.

You keep banging on about it being problematic but there has not been any case of racism reported, and obviously it is illegal and would be dealt with by the authorities if there ever was a case reported.

You seem to be fighting a non existent battle because Grimsby is "predominantly white" and therefore you seem to feel we should be made aware of our inner racism for some bizarre reason.

I for one am not standing for it. Its people like you who are looking for things that are not there, trying to make normal decent people feel they are walking a tightrope without any sense of proportion.

This is what really annoys me when ever the subject of "racism" is raised. It seems to be almost a taken conclusion that because I am white and live in a predominantly white environment then I have no real concept of what racism is and that I have an inherent racist tendency. This is so wrong. It also seems to be that only non-white people can be subjected to racism from white people. Again this is also so wrong. Racism exists everywhere and is not exclusive to the white and non- white argument. It exists between white people of different nationalities as well. Is there not a racist element to the anti English feeling by Scottish people? There is animosity between the Flemish and Walloon communities in Belgium - is this racism or just animosity between two different cultures within one country?
In my local social club I hear constant racist remarks as regards Eastern Europeans , Lithuanians, Poles etc - taking our jobs, getting priority in social housing, benefits and so on. This is a club whose members are predominantly working class and Labour voters, so not your "typical" right wing extremists.
I am a realist by nature and whilst this will be controversial I don't think you will ever remove racism regardless of what is ever done to do so. There exists in all societies and countries , groups of people who will always feel distrust or resentment towards those of a different colour, nationality or language.

Quoted from Humbercod

I think some people just go looking for racism! Misidentifying a black player is now racist FFS!
The fishy hand wringing liberals reach a whole new level of wokeism.🤣

As the brilliant Morgan Freeman once said when asked how to stop racism…. “Stop talking about it!”

I know your being a little mischievous here Humb but I’ll humour you.
Morgan Freeman is brilliant as an actor but the notion a problem goes away by not talking about it is unbelievably naive at best and at worst ridiculously stupid.
Racism by enlarge is an ignorance issue and more ignorance doesn’t solve it or many other things either but you know that!😉

Quoted from AncientExiledMariner

For someone bothered to do reading on racism, and the only material they found was that racism is fine probably needs to do a wee bit more reading.

That's right, all the research done into this neurological quirk is a smokescreen so we can all be racist.

Quoted from Sandford1981

I can see why you would highlight this phenomenon as an innocent way to mistakenly identity players on a pitch. Because it’s based predominantly on facial recognition is it applicable in a situation in which someone is too far away, to see facial features and reliance for recognition is based purely on running gait and playing style? (Thanks Knut)

Applied superficially I can see the merit in your point but equally, I’m not sure the ‘other race effect’ is a particularly good example to use here, given the fact that racism can play it’s part in its origins too.

Fair point Sandford and I don't know if it applies in this scenario. Don't get me wrong, I don't think that the 'other race effect' is a get out for those who display racist behaviour, but it is a generally accepted feature of all humans from all backgrounds.

The wider point I was trying to highlight is the nuances that exist in discussions like this and that are ignored. The arguments put forward by some here are so simplistic and reductionist as to be unhelpful, and possibly even damaging in relation to reasoned and open debate on a topic such as this. A feature of our time that just leads to people taking entrenched positions on both sides.

Personally, I can't see enough evidence here to justify one poster intimating another is a racist.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

I've been going to BP for over 60 years and have never heard any fan make a racist comment, casual or otherwise in a conversation.

Hot heads as in this current guise will always be hot heads but I don't think that tars anybody else.

Ask Aswad Thomas and Toto Nsiala if they have heard any.

Think that falls into your 60 year timeline.

Quoted from cardiffmariner

[b][/b]
The wider point I was trying to highlight is the nuances that exist in discussions like this and that are ignored. The arguments put forward by some here are so simplistic and reductionist as to be unhelpful, and possibly even damaging in relation to reasoned and open debate on a topic such as this. A feature of our time that just leads to people taking entrenched positions on both sides.

I think this is an excellent point and one I totally agree with. It pervades all subjects across all walks of life sadly and it does inhibit progressive discussion and debate.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

I've been going to BP for over 60 years and have never heard any fan make a racist comment, casual or otherwise in a conversation.

Hot heads as in this current guise will always be hot heads but I don't think that tars anybody else.

Was at Brighton rather than BP but I heard some helmet shout at Mitoma that he was a "slant eyed cünt" or some variation of that (the exact wording I can't remember but it was along those lines). Others who post on here were with me and would verify that. Unfortunately, when challenged he and his fellow knuckle draggers instantly became violent which is often the way with these idiots and is partly the reason why people often don't challenge it. If you're stupid enough to shout that sort of thing then you're also stupid enough to smack someone.

I'm not saying it's widespread but I highly doubt you've not been in earshot of any racist comment at any point if you've been going for over 60 years.

Quoted from AncientExiledMariner

Areas like Grimsby, are predominantly white. I think there 1 was BAME individual in my whole school year. Statistically, on a Grimsby forum, it isn't an unreasonable assumption to make, tied with the fact the people in question think it's fine to mistake the identity of people from different backgrounds makes it pretty obvious. Secondly, any Grimsby fan justifying mistaken identity of black players is highly unlikely to to have any awareness of the experiences of people from different backgrounds.

Debating racism isn't silly. The fact you think respect for people of different backgrounds is silly says everything it needs to about you. You've gone out of your way with what you feel is a clever comment. Very motivated to shut that debate down. Does discussing the problem of racism make you uncomfortable? Would you rather people didn't talk about it at all? Are you more than happy with the status quo?

You're blind to your own weakness. I'll spell it out and then go and have a cup of tea as feel weary of it all

'English folk' can also be black etc, yet you equate being English as purely white, which is completely racist.

The way you smear white Grimsby fans is a disgrace. Like many on here, my family was connected to the sea and I grew up with tales of faraway places and different cultures so had a fairly open mind to the rest of the world.

Any racist ideas I did hear as a kid disappeared instantly when I saw Keith Alexander heading home at BP.

Quoted from ginnywings

You carry on telling yourself that, but there is plenty of evidence to the contrary, so I'm not as ill informed as you suggest.

I don't think the present government are racist Ginny.

They just dislike everybody that are not a tory.

Quoted from Yarborough Vaults

You're blind to your own weakness. I'll spell it out and then go and have a cup of tea as feel weary of it all

'English folk' can also be black etc, yet you equate being English as purely white, which is completely racist.

The way you smear white Grimsby fans is a disgrace. Like many on here, my family was connected to the sea and I grew up with tales of faraway places and different cultures so had a fairly open mind to the rest of the world.

Any racist ideas I did hear as a kid disappeared instantly when I saw Keith Alexander heading home at BP.

I am not, and you ignored my argument. English folk can be black, but those defending racism on a Grimsby forum tend to be white. Are you going to give me some statistical argument as to how that is unlikely on a Grimsby forum for folks defending unconscious bias? Or are you going to ignore my argument and just repeat yours like it actually makes your weak point stronger?

I have lived around London area for over a decade, and you learn to see the world different. Working with people from different backgrounds you gain a new perspective.

I was raised in the area and my family is tied to the sea, and the assertion that that makes you open minded is absolute tosh of the highest order. You may want to believe a narrative and story, but it doesn't work. I brought my black girlfriend home to meet my parents. Walking around Grimsby with a black girl was one of the most uncomfortable experiences I've had, and let's just say, she didn't come back to the area again. People like to think it's this woke liberalism thing. The truth is, I flipping cannot stand liberalism. It's virtually Conservatism with a carrier bag tax. I'm a democratic socialist. My interest in this area comes from my personal experience, the people I meet, the people I work with and when you aren't talking to John down the pub about racism, but to people from Pakistan, India, China, Jamaica, East Africa. To black people born here who experienced every ounce of it growing up, you realise you grew up in a sheltered environment. Woke is the old evil Political Correctness of the past. The evil villain controlling people and telling you what to do. The excuse and scapegoat you need to reinforce that you're a good person and don't need to change, learn and improve. Conformational bias is so damn tempting, and learning to actually question your thought processes and think about things is hard and scary. Sometimes the ego can not handle considering for one second that you are wrong, and as a result, you're more comfortable with being wrong for longer if you can win an argument online. Fragile.

I'm glad Keith Alexander helped to slightly open your mind, and I hope the journey didn't stop there.

I think I'm going to opt out of here at some point. The stupid person here is me trying to debate racism online with people from Grimsby. This thread reminds me of Facebook and the quality of debate you get there. I won't miss that. Some are getting it and I'm impressed with the progression, but there is a long way to go for a town that was the breeding ground of the BNP, and many don't want to move an inch.

Probably best to knock this thread on the head now.

Sectarian chanting = bad

Racism = bad

Inadvertently misidentifying a player at distance = not really that bad, maybe try and squint a bit harder next time

Quoted from AncientExiledMariner

I am not, and you ignored my argument. English folk can be black, but those defending racism on a Grimsby forum tend to be white. Are you going to give me some statistical argument as to how that is unlikely on a Grimsby forum for folks defending unconscious bias? Or are you going to ignore my argument and just repeat yours like it actually makes your weak point stronger?

I have lived around London area for over a decade, and you learn to see the world different. Working with people from different backgrounds you gain a new perspective.

I was raised in the area and my family is tied to the sea, and the assertion that that makes you open minded is absolute tosh of the highest order. You may want to believe a narrative and story, but it doesn't work. I brought my black girlfriend home to meet my parents. Walking around Grimsby with a black girl was one of the most uncomfortable experiences I've had, and let's just say, she didn't come back to the area again. People like to think it's this woke liberalism thing. The truth is, I flipping cannot stand liberalism. It's virtually Conservatism with a carrier bag tax. I'm a democratic socialist. My interest in this area comes from my personal experience, the people I meet, the people I work with and when you aren't talking to John down the pub about racism, but to people from Pakistan, India, China, Jamaica, East Africa. To black people born here who experienced every ounce of it growing up, you realise you grew up in a sheltered environment. Woke is the old evil Political Correctness of the past. The evil villain controlling people and telling you what to do. The excuse and scapegoat you need to reinforce that you're a good person and don't need to change, learn and improve. Conformational bias is so damn tempting, and learning to actually question your thought processes and think about things is hard and scary. Sometimes the ego can not handle considering for one second that you are wrong, and as a result, you're more comfortable with being wrong for longer if you can win an argument online. Fragile.

I'm glad Keith Alexander helped to slightly open your mind, and I hope the journey didn't stop there.

I think I'm going to opt out of here at some point. The stupid person here is me trying to debate racism online with people from Grimsby. This thread reminds me of Facebook and the quality of debate you get there. I won't miss that. Some are getting it and I'm impressed with the progression, but there is a long way to go for a town that was the breeding ground of the BNP, and many don't want to move an inch.

What actual proof do you have of that?

Quoted from grimsby pete

I don't think the present government are racist Ginny.

They just dislike everybody that are not a tory.

The hostile environment policy of Theresa May, and then to go a step further under Priti Patel and Suella Braverman. Potentially breaking international law on refugee's to forcibly remove them. A policy so bad, that Theresa May had to get up in the comments and say the Rwanda plan was bad. Conservative MP David Davis also stood up against it. To think racism policies cannot be implemented by minorities to appease racist voters is definitely a blind spot.

I used to go to the doctors with my black girlfriend because the Asian doctor used to fob her off and only took her seriously when I was there. To think minorities cannot be racist shows you have a lot to learn. Have a look at India and the caste system. They believe people with darker skin such as the Tamil's are second class citizens. Disgusting.

Racism is something seen by the personalities, and the policies. The views. Identity politics is weak bullshit to appease people that because x is a woman, she's good for women. Likewise, because Y is a minority, they're great for minorities.

Quoted from 123614

What actual proof do you have of that?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning

Not engaging in that.

So no proof then.  Relentless requests, lol, I only asked once.

Quoted from 123614

So no proof then.

Quoted from 123614

So no proof then.  Relentless requests, lol, I only asked once.

Your response was low effort.

Show us the proof then.  You can't prove it and you know it, it was a generalisation.

Quoted from 123614

Show us the proof then.  You can't prove it and you know it, it was a generalisation.

The demographics of Grimsby for one. Predominantly white. You'll know that when you go a Grimsby game. Of those, those defending racism, yeah, I'm pretty confident. Have you got any evidence those arguing against aren't white?

You're making a ridiculously unrealistic argument. You'll need to back that one up.

Quoted from AncientExiledMariner

The demographics of Grimsby for one. Predominantly white. You'll know that when you go a Grimsby game. Of those, those defending racism, yeah, I'm pretty confident. Have you got any evidence those arguing against aren't white?

I didn't make a sweeping generalisation, you did.  You specifically said 'but those defending racism on a Grimsby forum tend to be white.'  Do you know the race of every single person on this forum, I doubt it.

Quoted from 123614

I didn't make a sweeping generalisation, you did.  You specifically said 'but those defending racism on a Grimsby forum tend to be white.'  Do you know the race of every single person on this forum, I doubt it.

Having travelled a great deal in my time I have found that people of any race are just the same as us .

There are good , bad and a few racists but the vast majority are kind and helpful to anybody in need.

Having spent my first 39 years in Grimsby/ Cleethorpes I know now we were almost all white and ignorant of racism .

Working along side and living near people from other countries opened my eyes to how different to GRIMSBY it was.

Up to Tony Ford playing for town we did not have a black player in the squad now there are plenty of players from all over the globe improving our team.

There is a simple saying , do to others as you would want them to do to you.

Life is too short for petty arguments based on where your grandad was born.

At the moment we have carers coming into our home to care for my wife they are all very friendly and helpful and are all from Romania thanks to them my wife is getting the care she needs that I am unable to give her.

The NHS. would be lost if people who come from different backgrounds and countries around the world decided they don't want to live in our love!y country.

So think on , one day you might need them and you will be grateful for their kindness and care.

Quoted from AncientExiledMariner

Pretty pictures, very nice.  "Yawn"

Bear: you want a trusted source for everything except things that back up your own opinions.

When I said on the transfer thread that Cartwright was signing as I was told by one of his close friends he was you wouldn’t accept that as a good source. Yet you quite happily accepted a far right website’s claims that parts of Luton were no go areas for non muslims before we played them.

At least be consistent.

Quoted from 123614

I didn't make a sweeping generalisation, you did.  You specifically said 'but those defending racism on a Grimsby forum tend to be white.'  Do you know the race of every single person on this forum, I doubt it.

Come on, mate, you must know this is a laughable argument, right? You've been to Grimsby matches and seen how few POC there are? In the last census in 2021, there were 2000 brown/black people in Grimsby out of a population of 86,000 and in Cleethorpes, whose population is a little under 30,000, there was just over 500 POC registered. My maths is crap, but I make that about 2% of the population.

Quoted from LH

Bear: you want a trusted source for everything except things that back up your own opinions.

When I said on the transfer thread that Cartwright was signing as I was told by one of his close friends he was you wouldn’t accept that as a good source. Yet you quite happily accepted a far right website’s claims that parts of Luton were no go areas for non muslims before we played them.

At least be consistent.

I did say that, and it was absolutely true, parts of Luton were being patrolled by muslims.  Also saw on TV, Muslims patrolling certain areas of Luton and warning a white couple to stop holding hands in 'their' area as well as scaring off other non muslims with threatening language and actions. Re Cartwright, I don't remember exactly what I posted, but think it was along the lines that it hadn't been confirmed yet by Hull or GTFC.

Quoted from ginnywings

Ask Aswad Thomas and Toto Nsiala if they have heard any.

Think that falls into your 60 year timeline.

You think correctly but that wasn't a case of mistaken identity was it? Neither did I hear it at BP as I said.

Of course there have been incidents of racism at BP over time, and quite rightly the guilty were punished as I have already said.

What is not acceptable is the racist label being attached to a fan who might confuse one player for another.

Quoted from tanga_the_indestructible

Come on, mate, you must know this is a laughable argument, right? You've been to Grimsby matches and seen how few POC there are? In the last census in 2021, there were 2000 brown/black people in Grimsby out of a population of 86,000 and in Cleethorpes, whose population is a little under 30,000, there was just over 500 POC registered. My maths is crap, but I make that about 2% of the population.

But the thing is he made it an absolute by saying but those defending racism on a Grimsby forum tend to be white.


He could have said 'it's possible that' or 'probably' or 'it might be that'.  And he is not talking about how many POC go to GTFC matches, he is talking about POC posting on this forum, and defending racism.  Now that brings the figures down a lot, However, people don't seem to like my asking for proof of certain things, I guess they are happy to go along with the generalisation which happens a lot on this forum.  So I yield.

flipping hell guys give it a rest now.

Any form of sectarian chanting, racism, is horrendous, we don't want our club involved in that, don't give a few trampy wannabees there 5 minutes in the spotlight

Surely time to close this thread or move it to non footy.
It’s just becoming a mammary for tat, going round in circles thread.!!

Quoted from AncientExiledMariner

The hostile environment policy of Theresa May, and then to go a step further under Priti Patel and Suella Braverman. Potentially breaking international law on refugee's to forcibly remove them. A policy so bad, that Theresa May had to get up in the comments and say the Rwanda plan was bad. Conservative MP David Davis also stood up against it. To think racism policies cannot be implemented by minorities to appease racist voters is definitely a blind spot.

I used to go to the doctors with my black girlfriend because the Asian doctor used to fob her off and only took her seriously when I was there. To think minorities cannot be racist shows you have a lot to learn. Have a look at India and the caste system. They believe people with darker skin such as the Tamil's are second class citizens. Disgusting.

Racism is something seen by the personalities, and the policies. The views. Identity politics is weak bullshit to appease people that because x is a woman, she's good for women. Likewise, because Y is a minority, they're great for minorities.

It's not just Tamils who suffer under India's caste system. The lowest castes are looked down on and ostracised by the higher castes. Indians have caste prejudices amongst themselves regardless of the darkness of their skin.
Would you accept that in areas and countries where there is a large majority of POC, then prejudice and racism is directed towards white people?

Quoted from Civvy at last

Surely time to close this thread or move it to non footy.
It’s just becoming a mammary for tat, going round in circles thread.!!

I agree and I'm out.

Quoted from AncientExiledMariner

I am not, and you ignored my argument. English folk can be black, but those defending racism on a Grimsby forum tend to be white. Are you going to give me some statistical argument as to how that is unlikely on a Grimsby forum for folks defending unconscious bias? Or are you going to ignore my argument and just repeat yours like it actually makes your weak point stronger?

I have lived around London area for over a decade, and you learn to see the world different. Working with people from different backgrounds you gain a new perspective.

I was raised in the area and my family is tied to the sea, and the assertion that that makes you open minded is absolute tosh of the highest order. You may want to believe a narrative and story, but it doesn't work. I brought my black girlfriend home to meet my parents. Walking around Grimsby with a black girl was one of the most uncomfortable experiences I've had, and let's just say, she didn't come back to the area again. People like to think it's this woke liberalism thing. The truth is, I flipping cannot stand liberalism. It's virtually Conservatism with a carrier bag tax. I'm a democratic socialist. My interest in this area comes from my personal experience, the people I meet, the people I work with and when you aren't talking to John down the pub about racism, but to people from Pakistan, India, China, Jamaica, East Africa. To black people born here who experienced every ounce of it growing up, you realise you grew up in a sheltered environment. Woke is the old evil Political Correctness of the past. The evil villain controlling people and telling you what to do. The excuse and scapegoat you need to reinforce that you're a good person and don't need to change, learn and improve. Conformational bias is so damn tempting, and learning to actually question your thought processes and think about things is hard and scary. Sometimes the ego can not handle considering for one second that you are wrong, and as a result, you're more comfortable with being wrong for longer if you can win an argument online. Fragile.

I'm glad Keith Alexander helped to slightly open your mind, and I hope the journey didn't stop there.

I think I'm going to opt out of here at some point. The stupid person here is me trying to debate racism online with people from Grimsby. This thread reminds me of Facebook and the quality of debate you get there. I won't miss that. Some are getting it and I'm impressed with the progression, but there is a long way to go for a town that was the breeding ground of the BNP, and many don't want to move an inch.

Having read yours and bear’s arguments to the end of this thread I’m intrigued as to what actually happened in Grimsby to make you both feel uncomfortable? I think it’s relevant to know as it would back up your feelings on the subject.

Quoted from AncientExiledMariner

I am not, and you ignored my argument. English folk can be black, but those defending racism on a Grimsby forum tend to be white. Are you going to give me some statistical argument as to how that is unlikely on a Grimsby forum for folks defending unconscious bias? Or are you going to ignore my argument and just repeat yours like it actually makes your weak point stronger?

I have lived around London area for over a decade, and you learn to see the world different. Working with people from different backgrounds you gain a new perspective.

I was raised in the area and my family is tied to the sea, and the assertion that that makes you open minded is absolute tosh of the highest order. You may want to believe a narrative and story, but it doesn't work. I brought my black girlfriend home to meet my parents. Walking around Grimsby with a black girl was one of the most uncomfortable experiences I've had, and let's just say, she didn't come back to the area again. People like to think it's this woke liberalism thing. The truth is, I flipping cannot stand liberalism. It's virtually Conservatism with a carrier bag tax. I'm a democratic socialist. My interest in this area comes from my personal experience, the people I meet, the people I work with and when you aren't talking to John down the pub about racism, but to people from Pakistan, India, China, Jamaica, East Africa. To black people born here who experienced every ounce of it growing up, you realise you grew up in a sheltered environment. Woke is the old evil Political Correctness of the past. The evil villain controlling people and telling you what to do. The excuse and scapegoat you need to reinforce that you're a good person and don't need to change, learn and improve. Conformational bias is so damn tempting, and learning to actually question your thought processes and think about things is hard and scary. Sometimes the ego can not handle considering for one second that you are wrong, and as a result, you're more comfortable with being wrong for longer if you can win an argument online. Fragile.

I'm glad Keith Alexander helped to slightly open your mind, and I hope the journey didn't stop there.

I think I'm going to opt out of here at some point. The stupid person here is me trying to debate racism online with people from Grimsby. This thread reminds me of Facebook and the quality of debate you get there. I won't miss that. Some are getting it and I'm impressed with the progression, but there is a long way to go for a town that was the breeding ground of the BNP, and many don't want to move an inch.

So, does your life story mean it is now impossible for you to ever mistake one player for another?