Hi Mariners fans,

I'm from Fair Game UK, and we've ranked all 92 Premier and EFL clubs on their financial sustainability, equality standards, governance, and fan engagement.

Learn more about the ranking and why it's needed here: https://twitter.com/FairGameUK/status/1678097181277036544?s=20

In short, the idea is that well-run clubs would get a greater share of funds distributed by the proposed Independent Regulator for English Football.

Find out how Grimsby did and how much increased funding they would get when we publish on Monday the 17th of July. Register here to be the first to get results: https://www.fairgameuk.org/fair-game-index-2023

We might not be able to respond to this thread until next week, but hope you'll take a look at the ranking on Monday.

All the best,

Fair Game UK

In short, the idea is that well-run clubs would get a greater share of funds distributed by the proposed Independent Regulator for English Football.

Find out how Grimsby did and how much increased funding they would get when we publish on Monday the 17th of July.

Register here to be the first to get results: https://www.fairgameuk.org/fair-game-index-2023

Mark, from Fair Game

So the definition of fair is to give some people more based on arbitrary criteria that you define? Sounds the exact opposite of fair to me

Quoted from pen penfras

So the definition of fair is to give some people more based on arbitrary criteria that you define? Sounds the exact opposite of fair to me

I agree. Moments in time and all that, and far too many nuances to make judgements like that.

You might judge something on financial prudence, and incredibly we might have come top of a table judged on that under Fenty, quietly forgetting he let the stadium the training ground and the infrastructure fall into disrepair.

Most clubs are in a state of flux of some sort, so how to play God to judge what is a fair play index seems ridiculous to me.

Wow, a national organisation, that gtfc are signed up to, join here, post something and the 1st two responses are negative!

This is something our club and particularly our fan elected director endorse.  

It's something trying to change how modern football is run ffs.

I can't see anything but positives with it.

All clubs in the same division should get the same money. Should a club like Spurs be given more money than Sheffield United just because they make millions from their massive new stadium?

Quoted from ex-merseymariner

Wow, a national organisation, that gtfc are signed up to, join here, post something and the 1st two responses are negative!

This is something our club and particularly our fan elected director endorse.  

It's something trying to change how modern football is run ffs.

I can't see anything but positives with it.

It may be an honest attempt to make football fairer or to judge clubs, and the owners may well be very supportive of it, but it's not negative to give an opinion on whether it is workable or viable. Most Town fans are behind the transformation of the club, but that does not mean agreeing positively with everything they do or stand for. I see Cambridge came top of the table in this, but I don't think they will be organising an open top bus parade around the city.

The results aren't out til monday?

And open top bus comment is ridiculous.

They're out. I'm pleased to see we do well at governance, not surprised our financial sustainability is average, our equality standards score can only improve, but the fan engagement score is nearly the worst in the division - what are these scores based upon?

Quoted from mike_d

They're out. I'm pleased to see we do well at governance, not surprised our financial sustainability is average, our equality standards score can only improve, but the fan engagement score is nearly the worst in the division - what are these scores based upon?

One of the Fair Game principles is that the badge shouldn't be changed without fan consultation. Fans forums aren't as often as they could/should be, but then we engage well with fans really well in other aspects. 2 Trust members on the board, children designing the third kit every year, regular media/podcast appearances from the board. It also talks about the role of the SLO being that link between fans, police and clubs as per UEFA guidelines in that section, and there has been a lot of criticism regarding how easily we roll over to kick off changes, so maybe that has a bearing on it too?

I suppose the irregularity of fans forums and the badge change (although almost 2 years ago) potentially impact that.

It would be interesting for the club to confirm why it's so low, and what the likes of AFC Wimbledon are doing in this area.

Finances, we are losing money so it was never going to rank highly.

Quoted from jamesgtfc

One of the Fair Game principles is that the badge shouldn't be changed without fan consultation. Fans forums aren't as often as they could/should be, but then we engage well with fans really well in other aspects. 2 Trust members on the board, children designing the third kit every year, regular media/podcast appearances from the board. It also talks about the role of the SLO being that link between fans, police and clubs as per UEFA guidelines in that section, and there has been a lot of criticism regarding how easily we roll over to kick off changes, so maybe that has a bearing on it too?

I suppose the irregularity of fans forums and the badge change (although almost 2 years ago) potentially impact that.

It would be interesting for the club to confirm why it's so low, and what the likes of AFC Wimbledon are doing in this area.

Finances, we are losing money so it was never going to rank highly.

Like I said earlier it is just a snapshot in time that means nothing. Our finance score is low, because we are losing money but we are losing money because these good owners are having to spend a lot to put the previous owners mistakes right!

Like all artificial tables this one is a waste of time. I hope we don't go too far down the rabbit hole of doing things to impress a compiler of tables rather than concentrate on the hard nosed business of winning football matches.

I see the Fair Game people are now tweeting out to fans why any particular score is low, for example saying to Newport fans they will jump 10 places next week when their accounts are logged! So even submitting accounts gives you brownie points!

Seems to me that these results and tables have no context attached.

For instance, there is nothing wrong with debt if that debt is serviceable.

I also don't feel a lack of engagement from the club. Maybe it is my age, but I don't feel that I have to know about every single thing the club does behind the scenes.

Quoted from ginnywings

Seems to me that these results and tables have no context attached.

For instance, there is nothing wrong with debt if that debt is serviceable.

I also don't feel a lack of engagement from the club. Maybe it is my age, but I don't feel that I have to know about every single thing the club does behind the scenes.

I think our ownership structure has a large bearing on the fan engagement result. 1878 Partners Ltd own a huge proportion of the club, and to my knowledge, the Trust don't have enough shares or representation in the boardroom to block things. Yes, they can put their opinions across and that is fine when the owners are good people, but it causes an issue when people bring the likes of Alex May to the table and the fan representatives have to sit there, gagged by a confidentiality clause.

Do I think we can engage better? Yes.

Do I think our fan engagement is 1.5/20? Absolutely not!

I can’t remember what month/year the survey used as when data was obtained, but I suspect it was over a year ago when things were still Fenty legacy.

In the last 6 months , personally I think it’s been pretty good in difficult times.

Quoted from IlkleyMariner

I can’t remember what month/year the survey used as when data was obtained, but I suspect it was over a year ago when things were still Fenty legacy.

In the last 6 months , personally I think it’s been pretty good in difficult times.

Someone has confirmed on twitter that the data was gathered when we were in National League, so don’t think we can draw many conclusions from our placing, other than say I would think all scores would now be much higher

To be fair we made money in the last few of the Fenty years and that kept getting us relegated

Quoted from grimps

To be fair we made money in the last few of the Fenty years and that kept getting us relegated

That's the point I think - there is a whole variety of scenarios and historical reasons behind every decision made at a football club. We didnt need an artificial league table to tell us we were poorly run, but in his eyes he saved us from financial meltdown.

The owners, the available workforce, where it is situated and whether it has had a good decade or a terrible one, whether it finds itself above or below its natural level and is therefore finding it difficult to adjust to a new reality are just some of the multitude of reasons why a club is being well run or not. As Ginny says unless there is context to the results in my opinion they are meaningless.

A decade ago Scunthorpe would have had good scores in some of those categories but so what, as there will always be some clubs on the way up and some on the way down.

What would adopting the Fair Game Index mean to gtfc? Another £5m a year apparently.

https://twitter.com/fairgameuk/status/1681922471019048962?s=46


All well and good until you scroll down a bit and see that it would mean an extra £7m for Donny, £10m a year for Tranmere and £20m a year for the likes of Shrewsbury.

I’m sure someone who’s taken more than 10 seconds to look into this would be much better informed than me, but not sure how this be an objectively good thing, with us falling £15m a year behind Shrewsbury whilst leaving Conference clubs in another universe practically.

I think the PL may have something to say about this new distribution model ?

We volunteered to pay a decent wage to all staff.  Only club to do so in the EFL I think as Luton are now promoted. This is incurring “good” costs,

Quoted from louth_in_the_south

I think the PL may have something to say about this new distribution model ?

Nail on the head.

The hypothetical money to be distributed is to be obtained by a 10% levy on transfer fees (i) between EPL clubs, and
(ii) international transfers involving EPL clubs.

The likelihood that the PL clubs will agree to this is realistically zero, but the Fair Game Index founders are banking on the
proposed Independent Regulator for Football pushing it through.

Whilst the government has "endorsed in principle" the creation of this independent regulator, there are suspicions that the
backsliding has already started (Saudi influenced, maybe?) and in any event the Culture Secretary responsible (Nadine Dorries)
is about to b*gger off from Parliament in a sulk about not getting a peerage promised by Boris Johnson (more fool her for
believing him).

The only PL club signed up to the FGI scheme is recently-promoted Luton.
(They may adopt a different viewpoint now they're in the big boys club. Credit to them if they don't.)
So unless the PL clubs suddenly become philanthropic, the Fair Game Index seems likely to remain a forlorn wish-list from
a bunch of 'bottom-feeder' clubs.

Which is a pity, as its aims are entirely admirable in my view.

Be a lot easier to implement some sort of bonus points system. Better run clubs gain extra points at the end of the season. Clubs just throwing money around and not caring about their fans don't get any extra.

Quoted from Southwark Mariner

Be a lot easier to implement some sort of bonus points system. Better run clubs gain extra points at the end of the season. Clubs just throwing money around and not caring about their fans don't get any extra.

Everything is subjective though Southwark, that's the problem. Wrexham fans think there's is a well run club, maybe it is maybe it isnt and some on here thought Fenty was running the club well.

Yes you can put some subjective headings and give marks for achieving them but that is grossly unfair for owners trying to sort out long standing issues, new owners finding their way, owners with deep pockets but little sense of community and a thousand and one different scenarios that are different to the next.

You can't manufacture a level playing field; this attempt is just a well meaning wish list and fair play to them for trying but owners of football clubs are just like the rest of us - comprising the good the bad and the ugly.