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Quoted from WayneBurnettsJockstrap

What are the rules regarding signing players from abroad in the lower leagues?

Do the players have to have international experience for their respective countries to give them clearance?

Are signings from Europe more difficult than from the rest of the world?

https://worldfootballindex.com/2020/12/work-permits-premier-league-post-brexit-english-clubs-efl-libertadores/

Every (none Brit) needs a work permit to work in UK. Footballers are "waved through" and South American players have it easier than before as EU rules don't apply anymore, and Permits are Equalised. The EU made it difficult for none EU players to get permits, so bit more paperwork for EU players, less paperwork for the rest of the world.

Basically Farage, Johnson and the pig shagger copulated it for us.

Quoted from gtfc98

Basically Farage, Johnson and the pig shagger copulated it for us.

Cameron asked the question, but 17m voters copulated it for us.

Like we raided the foreign academies anyway you remoaning fools

🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️

Here we go again!

Somebody is still using the term remoaner, despite the fact that Brexit has been the expected catastrophe? Remarkable.

No more Ivano Bonettis (or Enzo Gambaros), Ludwig Ohmans or Sebastian Rings. I suppose we might get another Chima Okorie if he pretends he's coming to pick fruit.

Conversely, of course, none of our young players will get the chance to play abroad in the EU, either. Would Danny North be able to forge a career in Ireland these days? Not so sure.

Quoted from Maringer

Conversely, of course, none of our young players will get the chance to play abroad in the EU, either. Would Danny North be able to forge a career in Ireland these days? Not so sure.

He’s way too old!

Quoted from WOZOFGRIMSBY

He’s way too old!

That aside, he could ply his trade in Ireland as the UK and Ireland have a common working arrangement, either citizen can work in either country without restriction. So, yes he could.

Quoted from SteffiMariner

That aside, he could ply his trade in Ireland as the UK and Ireland have a common working arrangement, either citizen can work in either country without restriction. So, yes he could.

Ah, right. I did wonder about that. The rest of the post stands, however.

I still find the term remoaner absolutely hilarious.

I laugh long and loud at the brilliant play on words. Oscar Wilde would be proud of that one.

Maybe we just need to get creative? like - this is John Smith, he's only playing for us for the 90 days he's on holiday in the uk.....day 91 we unveil Johnny Smith, his identical twin! who will also only play for the 90 days his holiday visa lasts....before Jonino Smith, the third brother, rocks up for the next few months! It could work.....

And maybe they could all volunteer their time to the club but get a donation separately of football for £3k a week from MyEnergi just to avoid any confusion for the FFP people....

In reality though you'd think a contract from GTFC would be a solid enough work sponsorship to get a foreign player in, Prem clubs have zero issues doing it

Quoted from gtfc98

Basically Farage, Johnson and the pig shagger copulated it for us.

This and many other things. Yet some people still seem to think it was all such a good idea, so pleased that they are very much in a minority now. Although I’m sure they are lapping up the dehumanising trope of “stop the boats”

I think we can end this debate now.we all agree that Brexit has been a massive success, Britain is booming as a result ,the NHS has been transformed by not having to pay those bloody Europeans,and the sunny uplands promised are just a hop n a skip away

Quoted from Theimperialcoroner

This and many other things. Yet some people still seem to think it was all such a good idea, so pleased that they are very much in a minority now. Although I’m sure they are lapping up the dehumanising trope of “stop the boats”

Absolutely and totally non fking football. YET AGAIN.

You do realise there is a ‘non footy’ section don’t you ??????

Quoted from forza ivano

I think we can end this debate now.we all agree that Brexit has been a massive success, Britain is booming as a result ,the NHS has been transformed by not having to pay those bloody Europeans,and the sunny uplands promised are just a hop n a skip away

So true

Am looking forward to seeing the customs checkpoint halfway between the Isle of Man and Belfast when I get on the ferry in 3 weeks time.

Quoted from Civvy at last

Absolutely and totally non fking football. YET AGAIN.

You do realise there is a ‘non footy’ section don’t you ??????

Is the truth starting to bite?

The trouble with Brexit is that affects everyone and everything including football hence is should be debated here. If you are not interested then don’t bother reading.
I will continue to be a proud remoaner until this tragic decision is revoked. The mood is changing as the public have worked out it was a massive con delivered by a proven liar.

Quoted from Theimperialcoroner

Is the truth starting to bite?

The truth is that Brexit coukd have worked. But instead of pulling together, those that lost had a hissy fit and refused to play ball. Thus massively weakening our position.
Those that voted remain seem somehow pleased that it has failed, which is undoubtedly true. Quite happy to see the country fecked. But at least they can say I told you so. Even on a league 2 message board !!

Quoted from Civvy at last

The truth is that Brexit coukd have worked. But instead of pulling together, those that lost had a hissy fit and refused to play ball. Thus massively weakening our position.
Those that voted remain seem somehow pleased that it has failed, which is undoubtedly true. Quite happy to see the country fecked. But at least they can say I told you so. Even on a league 2 message board !!

Spot on! As soon as the people voted to leave, the powers that be and "The Blob" , who wanted us to stay in the EU, put every obstacle in the way to make success difficult. The EU themselves daren't let it seem that a country leaving the EU could still flourish and be successful.

Quoted from 99agrant

The trouble with Brexit is that affects everyone and everything including football hence is should be debated here. If you are not interested then don’t bother reading.
I will continue to be a proud remoaner until this tragic decision is revoked. The mood is changing as the public have worked out it was a massive con delivered by a proven liar.

It shouldn't be debated here, it has absolutely nothing to do with this board. Soon people will be putting everything BUT football posts on here!

Quoted from Civvy at last

The truth is that Brexit coukd have worked. But instead of pulling together, those that lost had a hissy fit and refused to play ball. Thus massively weakening our position.

How could it have worked? How could leaving the world's wealthiest and most successful trading bloc (which happens to include all of our nearest neighbours) could only ever lead to failure. How did people who didn't agree with it have any impact on what the government negotiating the exit could agree with the EU? Do you think we could have achieved a better trading deal from the EU than was possible? The EU held all the cards in any negotiations as they had little to lose and we had lots - they knew it, we knew it, the world knew it. The experts were right and continue to be right and things are going to get worse still, once we eventually bring in the food checks on imports which we keep kicking down the road.

The fairytale cakeism pushed by the Brexiteers didn't make any sense, economically or otherwise, and they pretty clearly either didn't understand what they were talking about or were deliberately lying, which is why they are reduced to claiming those nasty people made us do Brexit wrong.

You only have to scroll back through this post to see who the main culprits are in turning this and many other posts instantly into a debate about Brexit.

I asked a legitimate question on what the rules are on signing foreign players nowadays. Quite simple really. There is no reason whatsoever to turn it into a political debate.

So Brexit doesn't limit our ability to sign EU players?

Quoted from Civvy at last

The truth is that Brexit coukd have worked. But instead of pulling together, those that lost had a hissy fit and refused to play ball. Thus massively weakening our position.
Those that voted remain seem somehow pleased that it has failed, which is undoubtedly true. Quite happy to see the country fecked. But at least they can say I told you so. Even on a league 2 message board !!

Ah yes, it is everyone else's fault...

Quoted from WayneBurnettsJockstrap

You only have to scroll back through this post to see who the main culprits are in turning this and many other posts instantly into a debate about Brexit.

I asked a legitimate question on what the rules are on signing foreign players nowadays. Quite simple really. There is no reason whatsoever to turn it into a political debate.

A question about people coming from abroad to work in the UK “nowadays” in post-Brexit Britain and you weren’t expecting a political discussion? Really?

A foreign player can play immediately if he is Albanian.

Sport and politics are intertwined, just like every other facet of society, so like it or not, there is no longer free movement between Europe and the UK, which has an impact on the free movement of footballers and anyone else looking to ply their trade over here.

There is also the impact of fans who now have a choice between paying bills or spending on leisure pursuits, including going to the footy.

I personally know of someone who can no longer afford to buy a season ticket because of increases in his outgoings.

Whether you voted leave or remain is irrelevant right now. The reality is that Brexit has affected every facet of life, and almost exclusively in a negative way.

Quoted from ginnywings

Sport and politics are intertwined, just like every other facet of society, so like it or not, there is no longer free movement between Europe and the UK, which has an impact on the free movement of footballers and anyone else looking to ply their trade over here.

There is also the impact of fans who now have a choice between paying bills or spending on leisure pursuits, including going to the footy.

I personally know of someone who can no longer afford to buy a season ticket because of increases in his outgoings.

Whether you voted leave or remain is irrelevant right now. The reality is that Brexit has affected every facet of life, and almost exclusively in a negative way.

No doubt, had we remained and voted Labour. There would have been no Covid, no war in the Ukrain, and we’d all be able to afford season tickets anywhere we wanted. 😴💤💤

Don't need to go that far afield to recruit
Lots of talent on the Emerald Isle. Dead easy to get to, once they build that bridge ;)

Quoted from Civvy at last

No doubt, had we remained and voted Labour. There would have been no Covid, no war in the Ukrain, and we’d all be able to afford season tickets anywhere we wanted. 😴💤💤

Keep drinking that Kool-Aid.

Quoted from Civvy at last

The truth is that Brexit coukd have worked. But instead of pulling together, those that lost had a hissy fit and refused to play ball. Thus massively weakening our position.
Those that voted remain seem somehow pleased that it has failed, which is undoubtedly true. Quite happy to see the country fecked. But at least they can say I told you so. Even on a league 2 message board !!

Ah so it’s the fault of those who voted remain that it’s not working. You’ve drunk a lot of KoolAid.

Quoted from LH

A question about people coming from abroad to work in the UK “nowadays” in post-Brexit Britain and you weren’t expecting a political discussion? Really?

Yes, because this is a football forum not a political forum. If grown men cant have a discussion about football without turning it into politics time and time and time again then there are some sad individuals on here, and those who agree or defend them are just as bad

Last time I checked, commenting on or reading every particular thread or even individual posts in threads wasn't compulsory.

A lot of posts and threads aren't of any interest to me, but I don't tend to complain that they've been made.

Quoted from WayneBurnettsJockstrap

You only have to scroll back through this post to see who the main culprits are in turning this and many other posts instantly into a debate about Brexit.

I asked a legitimate question on what the rules are on signing foreign players nowadays. Quite simple really. There is no reason whatsoever to turn it into a political debate.

It the reason we now cannot sign our level of players from the EU is entirely down to Brexit. That shitty freedom of movement that was the root of all evil was actually really positive in terms of football and many more important ways. What’s even more comical is those that moan about “foreigners” coming over here can surely see that the only thing Brexit has achieved in that respect is ensuring those that do come here are now a burden on the state rather than the benefit they were before. If you voted for this then own your excrement.

Quoted from WayneBurnettsJockstrap

Yes, because this is a football forum not a political forum. If grown men cant have a discussion about football without turning it into politics time and time and time again then there are some sad individuals on here, and those who agree or defend them are just as bad

But, in this instance, it’s simply impossible to keep this ‘football’, whatever that means.

The laws and ridiculous decision to leave have directly impacted the workforce, in this case, the footballing workforce.

Quoted from Theimperialcoroner

It the reason we now cannot sign our level of players from the EU is entirely down to Brexit. That shitty freedom of movement that was the root of all evil was actually really positive in terms of football and many more important ways. What’s even more comical is those that moan about “foreigners” coming over here can surely see that the only thing Brexit has achieved in that respect is ensuring those that do come here are now a burden on the state rather than the benefit they were before. If you voted for this then own your excrement.

That is a valid point. And when it’s posted relating to football then that’s fine.
But the usual suspects seem to just use it as a Tory bashing excuse and a chance to say ‘I told you so’
I come on here to read/discuss matters regarding GTFC and occasionally other teams. If Labour win the next election (and I suspect they will), anyone Labour bashing instead of football related will get the same reaction from me.
UTM

Makes English players more valuable at all levels then. Even the big teams have to have their quota within the squad.

It's now easier for English clubs to sign players from crap countries like Brazil and Argentina due to Brexit but let's not get the facts in the way.

Quoted from promotion plaice

It's now easier for English clubs to sign players from crap countries like Brazil and Argentina due to Brexit but let's not get the facts in the way.

Christ on a flipping bike.

Quoted from promotion plaice

It's now easier for English clubs to sign players from crap countries like Brazil and Argentina due to Brexit but let's not get the facts in the way.

Can you explain why as I don't think there is any element of truth or facts to back up that statement.

I'd be happy to see another Sergio Torres sign for us as he was a useful player whenever we faced him.

Back then, he was in the UK because he held an Italian passport (as do many Argies - lots of Brazilians have Portuguese passports). Are Argentinians any good at picking fruit and veg?

It's a shame and scary to see the old battlegrounds still being debated. Are we not learning anything yet? It's not red versus blue, it's not in or out the EU, the EU is hardly a beacon of democracy nowadays. It's not a Labour government or a Tory government. They're all in the pockets and at the behest of huge finance and huge corporations. Just look at the company the politicians on all sides keep. It's us, the little people versus them, but we're still so filled with the constant propaganda that keeps us split and disjointed. We've all become weak, lazy, uneducated and vulnerable. Anyone still think that Starmer or rejoining the EU is going to change anything? You're joking right? Even if this is the worst government in my living memory, nothing will change, they've all got the same agenda....

I wouldn't worry too much about foreign players either. Very few have been a success here. And anyway.. I thought we were all for developing homegrown talent.. not enough English players in the Premier League etc etc etc

Quoted from Bigdog

It's a shame and scary to see the old battlegrounds still being debated. Are we not learning anything yet? It's not red versus blue, it's not in or out the EU, the EU is hardly a beacon of democracy nowadays. It's not a Labour government or a Tory government. They're all in the pockets and at the behest of huge finance and huge corporations. Just look at the company the politicians on all sides keep. It's us, the little people versus them, but we're still so filled with the constant propaganda that keeps us split and disjointed. We've all become weak, lazy, uneducated and vulnerable. Anyone still think that Starmer or rejoining the EU is going to change anything? You're joking right? Even if this is the worst government in my living memory. Nothing will change, they've all got the same agenda....

I wouldn't worry too much about foreign players either. Very few have been a success here. And anyway.. I thought we were all for developing homegrown talent.. not enough English players in the Premier League etc etc etc

I think you have summed up our politicians and governments for the last few decades. Star man for me.

Biggest problem isn’t that we can’t sign foreign players, it’s that it is much more difficult for clubs in the leagues above us to sign them.

Premier League clubs will hoover up more young British players as they can’t bring in under 18’s from overseas and Championship clubs will be looking more closely at the lower leagues as they’ll struggle to bring in foreign players who’d get a work permit unless they have a huge budget.

Can see this, alongside Wrexham, having a big inflationary impact on British players transfer values and salary expectations.

Quoted from Marinerdan

Biggest problem isn’t that we can’t sign foreign players, it’s that it is much more difficult for clubs in the leagues above us to sign them.

Premier League clubs will hoover up more young British players as they can’t bring in under 18’s from overseas and Championship clubs will be looking more closely at the lower leagues as they’ll struggle to bring in foreign players who’d get a work permit unless they have a huge budget.

Can see this, alongside Wrexham, having a big inflationary impact on British players transfer values and salary expectations.

Hence the importance on having a successful academy. We all know what a great job neil woods does and it would be a worry if he was poached from the role by a team with a bigger budget etc. PH obviously has great communication with ALL of his team and the mutual respect is as light as day.

Evan khouri matured with every game he played and that last game against Wimbledon, he didn’t look out of place whatsoever.

Back to the topic, I read today there are new rules/quotas re work permits.

From Martyn Ziegler of the Times

'Home Office has signed off these new rules for overseas footballers - clubs can have up between 2 and 4 overseas players without the necessary work permit points. The extra is allowed if they give enough playing time to English players.'

2 non visa applicable players now allowed to sign for Div 2 teams !!

So we, and all other League 2 teams, can basically sign a minimum of 2 upto a maximum of 4 players, depending on a few regulations, from ANYWHERE including across the whole of Europe?

If so, that is groundbreaking.

Having a respected and experienced Recruitment Analyst, who could have contacts across the globe, might be very useful. Many lower League teams dont have that option.

how aren't we all dead yet? didn't the remainers paint it out to be crashing out of europe, going of a cliff edge. mass starvation.

Surely all life would have ended when we supposedly voted out?

Europe's doing worse than us at present.

Quoted from Mikey_345

Back to the topic, I read today there are new rules/quotas re work permits.

From Martyn Ziegler of the Times

'Home Office has signed off these new rules for overseas footballers - clubs can have up between 2 and 4 overseas players without the necessary work permit points. The extra is allowed if they give enough playing time to English players.'

Imagine the outcry from the bigots of this was made available to any business…flipping mind blowing.

Just when you think this government couldn’t be any more moronic…

Quoted from monkeyboy

how aren't we all dead yet? didn't the remainers paint it out to be crashing out of europe, going of a cliff edge. mass starvation.

Surely all life would have ended when we supposedly voted out?

Europe's doing worse than us at present.

Interesting fantasies you have, especially the one about Europe doing worse than us! Inflation is already higher in the UK than the rest of Europe, in part due to Brexit, and it's only going to get worse when we finally start implementing the import checks which we keep postponing:

https://www.fwi.co.uk/news/eu-food-producers-not-ready-for-uk-import-checks?s=09

Brexit isn't nearly finished with us yet.

Quoted from monkeyboy

how aren't we all dead yet? didn't the remainers paint it out to be crashing out of europe, going of a cliff edge. mass starvation.

Surely all life would have ended when we supposedly voted out?

Europe's doing worse than us at present.

You're right... it's going perfectly. 'Remoaners' just need to believe abit more, that'll sort it...

Quoted from Maringer

Interesting fantasies you have, especially the one about Europe doing worse than us! Inflation is already higher in the UK than the rest of Europe, in part due to Brexit, and it's only going to get worse when we finally start implementing the import checks which we keep postponing:

https://www.fwi.co.uk/news/eu-food-producers-not-ready-for-uk-import-checks?s=09

Brexit isn't nearly finished with us yet.

But...but...but...The Daily Mail says it's worse in the Stalinist state of Europe..

Quoted from monkeyboy

how aren't we all dead yet? didn't the remainers paint it out to be crashing out of europe, going of a cliff edge. mass starvation.

Surely all life would have ended when we supposedly voted out?

Europe's doing worse than us at present.

So dense that light bends around you.

Quoted from Bigdog

It's a shame and scary to see the old battlegrounds still being debated. Are we not learning anything yet? It's not red versus blue, it's not in or out the EU, the EU is hardly a beacon of democracy nowadays. It's not a Labour government or a Tory government. They're all in the pockets and at the behest of huge finance and huge corporations. Just look at the company the politicians on all sides keep. It's us, the little people versus them, but we're still so filled with the constant propaganda that keeps us split and disjointed. We've all become weak, lazy, uneducated and vulnerable. Anyone still think that Starmer or rejoining the EU is going to change anything? You're joking right? Even if this is the worst government in my living memory, nothing will change, they've all got the same agenda....

I wouldn't worry too much about foreign players either. Very few have been a success here. And anyway.. I thought we were all for developing homegrown talent.. not enough English players in the Premier League etc etc etc

100%. It is the banks and capitalism that run the show. We are the problem in allowing it to happen, and people will just continue to spend every penny they have and more because that's what we're encouraged to do to keep the fallacy that is democracy going. We pay billions and lose out when the banks get it wrong. We pay billions into the bankers pockets when they get it right. No consequences for them and they just get richer and greedier.

People's attitude is a massive part of the problem. And the complexity of the financial system makes it so hard for normal people to understand what is going on, along with apathy, that I can't see how we possibly fix the system.

I'm not anti capitalism, I'm anti the banks having all the power. Governments should have the power to create and control money, but they don't, the banks do.

Quoted from pen penfras

100%. It is the banks and capitalism that run the show. We are the problem in allowing it to happen, and people will just continue to spend every penny they have and more because that's what we're encouraged to do to keep the fallacy that is democracy going. We pay billions and lose out when the banks get it wrong. We pay billions into the bankers pockets when they get it right. No consequences for them and they just get richer and greedier.

People's attitude is a massive part of the problem. And the complexity of the financial system makes it so hard for normal people to understand what is going on, along with apathy, that I can't see how we possibly fix the system.

I'm not anti capitalism, I'm anti the banks having all the power. Governments should have the power to create and control money, but they don't, the banks do.

You're not wrong in some respects, in that the banks are allowed to do pretty much what they please with no moral hazard. They crashed the world economy in 2008, weren't punished or penalised for it and much of the QE required to bolster the economy ended up in their pockets regardless.

However, you're incorrect about the creation and control of money. The Government authorises the banks to create money - they can't do it without government consent, so it is entirely within the gift of government to remove this facility or at least threaten to do so to rein them in.

Why are the bankers allowed to get away with their misdeeds with the government (and therefore the populace) picking up the tab? Ask current PM and former Chancellor, Rishi Sunak (ex-Goldman Sachs), or perhaps all the Tory MPs with links to the hedge funds or who have accepted hefty donations from the financial sector (a smaller number of Labour MPs also have similar links and donations, but to a much lesser degree). Heck, Sajid Javid (ex-Deutsche Bank) was even one of those cluelessly trading the excrement leveraged bonds which caused the global financial crisis back in 2008 and it didn't stop him taking on one of the major roles in Government.

The other problem at present is that the Tories are so far into the belief that Banks Know Best, that we've ended up with Andrew Bailey as head of the Bank of England and he's absolutely bloody clueless. Unfortunately, the same goes for Shadow Chancellor, Rachel Reeves, a former BoE employee.

Quoted from ginnywings

Sport and politics are intertwined, just like every other facet of society, so like it or not, there is no longer free movement between Europe and the UK, which has an impact on the free movement of footballers and anyone else looking to ply their trade over here.

There is also the impact of fans who now have a choice between paying bills or spending on leisure pursuits, including going to the footy.

I personally know of someone who can no longer afford to buy a season ticket because of increases in his outgoings.

Whether you voted leave or remain is irrelevant right now. The reality is that Brexit has affected every facet of life, and almost exclusively in a negative way.

Ginny, do you not think that those small matters of a pandemic and the invasion of Ukraine may not have impacted outgoing expenses for people in most countries?

Take a look at the current economic situation in France and Germany and see whether Britain is an outlier, or in fact slightly over-performing cf the current European economic mean.

Times is tough everywhere.

Quoted from nickmariners

Ginny, do you not think that those small matters of a pandemic and the invasion of Ukraine may not have impacted outgoing expenses for people in most countries?

Take a look at the current economic situation in France and Germany and see whether Britain is an outlier, or in fact slightly over-performing cf the current European economic mean.

Times is tough everywhere.

Please provide proof that Britain is outperforming France and Germany.

For proof of the exceptional state of the UK economy refer to today's BBC website article where the head of Tesco says there are signs of inflation reducing but the article states that food inflation in the UK is currently just over 19%.

I also don't know whether you voted for Brexit or not but comparing the UK to Germany and France is surely what Brexiters wanted us to stop doing. We have taken back control. We are in charge of our own destiny. We don't have to worry about what Europe does or doesn't do.

Quoted from nickmariners

Take a look at the current economic situation in France and Germany and see whether Britain is an outlier, or in fact slightly over-performing cf the current European economic mean.

They've got lower inflation than the UK and have had higher growth since 2016. The UK is the only one of those three whose economy is smaller now than before the pandemic. I think I'd rather have their economic situation than our own. The EU as a whole has lower inflation than the UK, not just one or two countries. Food inflation much worse here than anywhere else in Western Europe, thanks to you know what and our reliance on imported food.

Quoted from Maringer

They've got lower inflation than the UK and have had higher growth since 2016. The UK is the only one of those three whose economy is smaller now than before the pandemic. I think I'd rather have their economic situation than our own. The EU as a whole has lower inflation than the UK, not just one or two countries. Food inflation much worse here than anywhere else in Western Europe, thanks to you know what and our reliance on imported food.

what= the supermarket/grain merchant cartel, with a slice of good old brexit on the side of the plate

Quoted from Maringer

They've got lower inflation than the UK and have had higher growth since 2016. The UK is the only one of those three whose economy is smaller now than before the pandemic. I think I'd rather have their economic situation than our own. The EU as a whole has lower inflation than the UK, not just one or two countries. Food inflation much worse here than anywhere else in Western Europe, thanks to you know what and our reliance on imported food.

Do you not think that the EU encouraged a reliance on imported food, especially seasonal food which benefited poorer economies within the EU such as Portugal, Spain , Greece and Italy?

Quoted from rancido

Do you not think that the EU encouraged a reliance on imported food, especially seasonal food which benefited poorer economies within the EU such as Portugal, Spain , Greece and Italy?

We haven't been self sufficient in food production for about 150 years. This could have been some long term strategy those pesky French as revenge for Waterloo but I doubt it.

Quoted from nickmariners

Ginny, do you not think that those small matters of a pandemic and the invasion of Ukraine may not have impacted outgoing expenses for people in most countries?

Take a look at the current economic situation in France and Germany and see whether Britain is an outlier, or in fact slightly over-performing cf the current European economic mean.

Times is tough everywhere.

Err no, I don't think that.

And times aint tough everywhere.

Quoted from rancido

Do you not think that the EU encouraged a reliance on imported food, especially seasonal food which benefited poorer economies within the EU such as Portugal, Spain , Greece and Italy?

Do you seriously think that those dastardly Europeans sold us food cheaply as part of some sort of elaborate plan? It was how the single market works. We offered more money so got the stuff cheaply. A lot more expenses incurred now we're out of the single market.

It's also worth noting that leaving the single market without having a proper plan for maintaining food security was mind-blowingly stupid.

Quoted from Balthazar Bullitt

We haven't been self sufficient in food production for about 150 years. This could have been some long term strategy those pesky French as revenge for Waterloo but I doubt it.

In 1984 Britain was 95% self sufficient in indigenous foods. Changing food tastes mean we import more of the types of food that we cannot grow competitively compared to the warmer southern EU countries.

I have just come back from France and I tell you most of the food items in France are more expensive than in England.-. don'[t believe everything you hear on TV.

Quoted from golfer

I have just come back from France and I tell you most of the food items in France are more expensive than in England.-. don'[t believe everything you hear on TV.

That's that then, absolutely conclusive proof. Where do I join the Conservative party?

According to http://www.tradingeconomics.com food inflation in France in May was 14.3% compared to the UK which was just over 19% according to BBC report quoted above. In Germany it was 14.5%.

Quoted from golfer

I have just come back from France and I tell you most of the food items in France are more expensive than in England.-. don't believe everything you hear on TV.

I've just been to Paris and now in London. Paris is cheaper. Don't believe everything you hear from a gammon on an Internet forum.

I'll bet Grimsby's cheaper than both

Quoted from gtfc98

I've just been to Paris and now in London. Paris is cheaper. Don't believe everything you hear from a gammon on an Internet forum.

Where did you go- Aldi Paris and Harrods London ? Try a loaf of bread not foie gras

Quoted from golfer

I have just come back from France and I tell you most of the food items in France are more expensive than in England.-. don'[t believe everything you hear on TV.

that's coz they know you're English ;D ;D

That'll teach me .Clicked on foreign players and all I got was a load of remoaners wittering about Brexit on a football forum

I suppose I'll be another 20 pages before it's realised that it's not a footy thread and gets moved.

Quoted from pen penfras

100%. It is the banks and capitalism that run the show. We are the problem in allowing it to happen, and people will just continue to spend every penny they have and more because that's what we're encouraged to do to keep the fallacy that is democracy going. We pay billions and lose out when the banks get it wrong. We pay billions into the bankers pockets when they get it right. No consequences for them and they just get richer and greedier.

People's attitude is a massive part of the problem. And the complexity of the financial system makes it so hard for normal people to understand what is going on, along with apathy, that I can't see how we possibly fix the system.

I'm not anti capitalism, I'm anti the banks having all the power. Governments should have the power to create and control money, but they don't, the banks do.

But which is the lesser of the 2 evils? Banks, for all their faults, totally understand the financial world but can manipulate things for their own benefit. Governments, of all political persuasions, come and go. Each successive government will have its own fiscal policy and its own approach to any global financial crisis. All political parties in the UK has had its fair share of corrupt MPs and ones whose sole intention was to " feather their own nests ".

Quoted from Norseman

That'll teach me .Clicked on foreign players and all I got was a load of remoaners wittering about Brexit on a football forum

Yeh sorry about that. I started the thread with good intentions and with a genuine question, but some people just cant help themselves and have to turn it into something its not.

Thanks to the people who have replied 'on topic' anyway

Quoted from WayneBurnettsJockstrap

Yeh sorry about that. I started the thread with good intentions and with a genuine question, but some people just cant help themselves and have to turn it into something its not.

Thanks to the people who have replied 'on topic' anyway

You can't have a discussion about foreign players without mentioning the B word, because leaving the EU fundamentally changed everything and it is central to the issue.

Then the remoaner word gets used and that's like a red rag to a bull, so.....

Quoted from WayneBurnettsJockstrap

Yeh sorry about that. I started the thread with good intentions and with a genuine question, but some people just cant help themselves and have to turn it into something its not.

Thanks to the people who have replied 'on topic' anyway

Yeah some people find it hard to let go of the fact that 17m people voted to make the country poorer.

And still don't have the gumption to admit they were sold a pup and ballsed it all up.

Quoted from Maringer

And still don't have the gumption to admit they were sold a pup and ballsed it all up.

I don't think I was sold a pup. I fully expected a set back but unfortunately the pandemic and Ukraine has made things more difficult. I wanted out of the EU because I was frustrated with the UK's future and destiny being dictated by a biased political structure that was orientated towards the benefit of France and Germany. I don't regret voting out and I would do the same again if the opportunity arose again.

Quoted from rancido

I don't think I was sold a pup. I fully expected a set back but unfortunately the pandemic and Ukraine has made things more difficult. I wanted out of the EU because I was frustrated with the UK's future and destiny being dictated by a biased political structure that was orientated towards the benefit of France and Germany. I don't regret voting out and I would do the same again if the opportunity arose again.

There are some on here who will slag you off, but honestly I wish I could have written that so well, because it’s exactly how I feel.

Quoted from rancido

I don't think I was sold a pup. I fully expected a set back but unfortunately the pandemic and Ukraine has made things more difficult. I wanted out of the EU because I was frustrated with the UK's future and destiny being dictated by a biased political structure that was orientated towards the benefit of France and Germany. I don't regret voting out and I would do the same again if the opportunity arose again.

Ah, so you're one of the folk who decided 'sovereignty' was more important than the nation's prosperity, direct access to the world's wealthiest trading bloc and freedom of movement to work and study elsewhere in the EU. Seems a lot to give up to me over a nebulous concept which doesn't hold much water at closer scrutiny.

I've never understood the 'sovereignty' argument given that we had a veto on policy, helped select the commission and therefore set EU policy and benefitted immeasurably from membership.

I prefer a more pragmatic approach. The EU was and is far from perfect, but it's always better to be inside the tent pissing out then vice versa.

Brexit has shafted our business and many thousands of others around the country. We're going to be paying much more for food from now onwards (hence the higher inflation here compared to the rest of Europe), and our agricultural sector is failing without workers and due to a loss of access to the single market. I personally wasn't ever going to be moving to Europe to work or study (a couple of my friends did so when we were younger), but it would have been nice if my kids hadn't had the opportunity to do so stripped away from them.

Given that we're much worse off due to Brexit already and food inflation is going to get worse when we finally bring in the import checks we keep postponing, it's interesting to see you still so firm in your conviction that Brexit was a good idea.

I personally think you're deluded, but that's your right, I suppose.

I do wonder just how much damage to the economy do you think makes the sovereignty aspect worthwhile? Difficult to be clear without counterfactuals as to what might have occurred without Brexit. The combination of Brexit and the worst government in living memory makes it difficult to be clear just which aspect has copulated which things up.

lets not forget we,ve since had Covid and War in Ukraine also causing price increases. A ship that blocked Suez didn't help either.

Quoted from Wedidntdidwe

lets not forget we,ve since had Covid and War in Ukraine also causing price increases. A ship that blocked Suez didn't help either.

The suez flipping canal. You've just dropped those straws you're clutching at.

Quoted from rancido

I don't think I was sold a pup. I fully expected a set back but unfortunately the pandemic and Ukraine has made things more difficult. I wanted out of the EU because I was frustrated with the UK's future and destiny being dictated by a biased political structure that was orientated towards the benefit of France and Germany. I don't regret voting out and I would do the same again if the opportunity arose again.

Is covid and the war in Ukraine the reason Grimsby still doesnt have anything remotely resembling a fishing industry despite Lia Nici proudly proclaiming that we had the trawlers and the men ready to go on January 1st 2021 then?

You've been sold a lie, the whole thing was about shorting the pound so Farage and his hedge fund mates (Rees-Mogg, Crispin Odey etc) could make a fortune at our expense. Most of the key Brexiteers have since left the UK knowing that its copulated. Dyson, Ratcliffe to name a couple.

Falling for the lie at the time was daft, but if you're narrow minded then I could understand how it could happen. Failing to see you've been duped now is just plain stupid.

Quoted from rancido

I don't regret voting out and I would do the same again if the opportunity arose again.

So you don’t want to be out?

You want to be out out

Quoted from Maringer

Ah, so you're one of the folk who decided 'sovereignty' was more important than the nation's prosperity, direct access to the world's wealthiest trading bloc and freedom of movement to work and study elsewhere in the EU. Seems a lot to give up to me over a nebulous concept which doesn't hold much water at closer scrutiny.

I've never understood the 'sovereignty' argument given that we had a veto on policy, helped select the commission and therefore set EU policy and benefitted immeasurably from membership.

I prefer a more pragmatic approach. The EU was and is far from perfect, but it's always better to be inside the tent pissing out then vice versa.

Brexit has shafted our business and many thousands of others around the country. We're going to be paying much more for food from now onwards (hence the higher inflation here compared to the rest of Europe), and our agricultural sector is failing without workers and due to a loss of access to the single market. I personally wasn't ever going to be moving to Europe to work or study (a couple of my friends did so when we were younger), but it would have been nice if my kids hadn't had the opportunity to do so stripped away from them.

Given that we're much worse off due to Brexit already and food inflation is going to get worse when we finally bring in the import checks we keep postponing, it's interesting to see you still so firm in your conviction that Brexit was a good idea.

I personally think you're deluded, but that's your right, I suppose.

I do wonder just how much damage to the economy do you think makes the sovereignty aspect worthwhile? Difficult to be clear without counterfactuals as to what might have occurred without Brexit. The combination of Brexit and the worst government in living memory makes it difficult to be clear just which aspect has copulated which things up.

If " sovereignty" means having more control over my life through my elected government then I will take that every time. I'm presently on holiday in a non-EU Mediterranean country so I don't particularly want to spend time debating my views. All I will say is that you have chosen one word that seems to crop up in all the debates that are aimed at those that voted to leave the EU and that word is " deluded ". Another poster called me " a fool " and the expression " sold a pup " was also used. We live in a democracy whereby an individual can hold his own political views and vote whichever way they choose - and that is what I believe in.
As a last note the people of the UK never ever had the chance to vote on joining the EU ( or Common Market as it was known). It was part of the Labour Party's manifesto leading upto a General election and as such was part of a raft of intentions to the voting public and accepted to get them back in Government. It wasn't a direct choice, just a price to pay to get Labour back in power. I never wanted it then, I didn't want in when Harold Wilson gave the people the choice to stay in and I still don't want it.

Quoted from rancido

If " sovereignty" means having more control over my life through my elected government then I will take that every time. I'm presently on holiday in a non-EU Mediterranean country so I don't particularly want to spend time debating my views. All I will say is that you have chosen one word that seems to crop up in all the debates that are aimed at those that voted to leave the EU and that word is " deluded ". Another poster called me " a fool " and the expression " sold a pup " was also used. We live in a democracy whereby an individual can hold his own political views and vote whichever way they choose - and that is what I believe in.
As a last note the people of the UK never ever had the chance to vote on joining the EU ( or Common Market as it was known). It was part of the Labour Party's manifesto leading upto a General election and as such was part of a raft of intentions to the voting public and accepted to get them back in Government. It wasn't a direct choice, just a price to pay to get Labour back in power. I never wanted it then, I didn't want in when Harold Wilson gave the people the choice to stay in and I still don't want it.

It's virtually impossible to know how much damage brexit has done to the economy. Lots of the things being blamed on brexit are a result of other things, but it's unquestionable that it has made trading with Europe more difficult for British business and ultimately that cost comes out of our pockets. The only way economically that we benefit is if we get good trade deals with other countries that the EU doesn't have, it's a long time before that plays out. The economy isn't the only thing that comes into play though, democracy, sovereignty and control of your own destiny are equally valid reasons for voting to leave. Ultimately the most important thing is the economy, and we may have done the wrong thing. But the billions that are invested all over Europe that were part funded by the British tax payer could be invested in this country to improve our economy, I'm not sure it will be, and I have zero confidence in the Tories or Labour to get anything right with the majority of the people running those parties.

Quoted from Norseman

That'll teach me .Clicked on foreign players and all I got was a load of remoaners wittering about Brexit on a football forum

Looking forward to you clicking the Abo Eisa thread.

Quoted from Balthazar Bullitt

We haven't been self sufficient in food production for about 150 years. This could have been some long term strategy those pesky French as revenge for Waterloo but I doubt it.

'Sharpe' intensifies (guitar riff wails in background).......

Quoted from pen penfras

It's virtually impossible to know how much damage brexit has done to the economy. Lots of the things being blamed on brexit are a result of other things, but it's unquestionable that it has made trading with Europe more difficult for British business and ultimately that cost comes out of our pockets. The only way economically that we benefit is if we get good trade deals with other countries that the EU doesn't have, it's a long time before that plays out. The economy isn't the only thing that comes into play though, democracy, sovereignty and control of your own destiny are equally valid reasons for voting to leave. Ultimately the most important thing is the economy, and we may have done the wrong thing. But the billions that are invested all over Europe that were part funded by the British tax payer could be invested in this country to improve our economy, I'm not sure it will be, and I have zero confidence in the Tories or Labour to get anything right with the majority of the people running those parties.

First time I have agreed with Pen I think. It wont matter which party is in they will just do what suits the money people wether in or out it makes little difference.

Quoted from Wedidntdidwe

lets not forget we,ve since had Covid and War in Ukraine also causing price increases. A ship that blocked Suez didn't help either.

The rest of Europe hasn't had Covid, Ukraine or the Suez Canal blockage to contend with then I take it?

Ah go on then, here's some direct quotes from BBC news - let the red crosses commence!

Looking at a range of food and drink, he says UK prices are typically 7% below the EU average - with bread, meat and fish in particular relatively cheap. He says the UK's competitive supermarket sector plays a role in keeping prices down.

By contrast, he says that prior to 2015, on average groceries were more expensive in the UK than in the EU - partly reflecting the relatively small influence of the lower cost retailers such as Aldi and Lidl at that point. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65632019

The graph above shows the overall difference in price for the 23 products we looked at added together. Germany is the cheapest, £20 less than France which is way out in front. Our shop is third cheapest in this league table, fairly similar, in fact, with Italy, Spain and the Netherlands.

Andrew Opie from the British Retail Consortium (BRC) said: "This research confirms UK consumers benefit from a highly competitive market, delivering some of the cheapest groceries in Europe.

"We believe it underestimates the savings British consumers are making when buying staple food items, including fresh produce, as well as the value consumers can find by shopping around, another benefit of the strong competition in the UK market."

Food price inflation, the rate at which prices are changing, is affecting every European country.

Mr Roy said in recent weeks inflation had been easing in Germany, the Netherlands and Spain, where prices rose earlier than the UK. He expects the UK will follow suit over the next few months.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65833619

France is more expensive, not my words but the words of top gear magazine

Rancido, I used the word deluded advisedly. I think your beliefs about leaving the EU (and not wanting to join in the first place) don't make sense. We're a small island with few natural resources worth anything any longer. We've not been a major manufacturer of anything other than weapons for many decades now after Thatcherism saw most major industry closed down and sold off.

Any strength in our economy was from the services sector (including financial services, however distasteful some of their behaviour may be) and Brexit has removed easy access to our biggest market. As the rest of the economy weakens, the services sector will inevitably weaken further. You can't sell a service to somebody who doesn't have a job which can keep them off the breadline.

Voting to leave the EU was a vote to make the country poorer. Joining the EU was a choice which made us wealthier.

Your lack of pragmatism or care about what happens to the economy following Brexit is what leads me to think you are deluded. Enjoy your holiday, by the way!

Pen Penfras is incorrect in saying that it will be particularly difficult to tell whether Brexit or other reasons have the negative impacts on the economy. We'll be able to see the Brexit impacts as our economy declines in relation to other EU members. They are affected by global issues in the same way we are so divergence will mostly be due to access to the single market (and government policy, of course).

Unfortunately, Pen is himself deluded if he really thinks we're going to get better trade deals than the EU. Trade deals are agreed depending on economic power and we're like a bit dropped off the EU (because we are). We might be able to agree deals which are a tiny bit better in minor areas with smaller countries, but it will dwarf what we lose out on through single market membership.

Quoted from Heisenberg

There are some on here who will slag you off, but honestly I wish I could have written that so well, because it’s exactly how I feel.

I agree.

'France is more expensive, not my words but the words of top gear magazine'

Ah yes, whenever I'm looking for reliable, unbiased deep analysis of the current European economic system I reach for Top Gear magazine.

Quoted from rancido

In 1984 Britain was 95% self sufficient in indigenous foods. Changing food tastes mean we import more of the types of food that we cannot grow competitively compared to the warmer southern EU countries.

Can't wait to eat nothing but turnips in the winter.

Quoted from Maringer

Rancido, I used the word deluded advisedly. I think your beliefs about leaving the EU (and not wanting to join in the first place) don't make sense. We're a small island with few natural resources worth anything any longer. We've not been a major manufacturer of anything other than weapons for many decades now after Thatcherism saw most major industry closed down and sold off.

Any strength in our economy was from the services sector (including financial services, however distasteful some of their behaviour may be) and Brexit has removed easy access to our biggest market. As the rest of the economy weakens, the services sector will inevitably weaken further. You can't sell a service to somebody who doesn't have a job which can keep them off the breadline.

Voting to leave the EU was a vote to make the country poorer. Joining the EU was a choice which made us wealthier.

Your lack of pragmatism or care about what happens to the economy following Brexit is what leads me to think you are deluded. Enjoy your holiday, by the way!

Pen Penfras is incorrect in saying that it will be particularly difficult to tell whether Brexit or other reasons have the negative impacts on the economy. We'll be able to see the Brexit impacts as our economy declines in relation to other EU members. They are affected by global issues in the same way we are so divergence will mostly be due to access to the single market (and government policy, of course).

Unfortunately, Pen is himself deluded if he really thinks we're going to get better trade deals than the EU. Trade deals are agreed depending on economic power and we're like a bit dropped off the EU (because we are). We might be able to agree deals which are a tiny bit better in minor areas with smaller countries, but it will dwarf what we lose out on through single market membership.

Last word from me on this subject. Iceland is a very small island country and does not want to join the EU. Norway is a small country and not part of the EU. If it would benefit these two small countries by joining the EU then why haven't they? Maybe these countries are run and populated by deluded fools or maybe they want to control their own destiny without the diktats of a non-accountable organisation.

Norway, a sparsely-populated country with vast fossil fuel wealth which the Norwegian government has invested into one of the world's largest sovereign wealth funds.

Iceland, a tiny nation whose geography means it is at the centre of vast fishing grounds which it exploits effectively. If they joined the EU, they would have to share their fishing grounds.

In comparison, we are a small, extremely-densely populated country with no natural resources to exploit (no wealth fund set up by Thatcher for the North Sea oil and gas).

Notable that Norway and Iceland are part of the Schengen zone so they have freedom of movement in the EU. They also pay to have access to the single market as members of the EEA! You probably couldn't have picked two worse examples to explain your aversion to the EU. They quite literally have almost all of the benefits of EU membership!

I'd be delighted if we could be members of the EEA and still have access to the single market. During the run up to the referendum, many of the Brexiteers even insinuated this is what we would have. Probably not feasible, unfortunately, because our economy is probably big enough that we wouldn't be admitted to the EEA and the xenophobes hate freedknof movement with a passion even though we obvious need and benefit from it.

Quoted from Maringer

Norway, a sparsely-populated country with vast fossil fuel wealth which the Norwegian government has invested into one of the world's largest sovereign wealth funds.

Iceland, a tiny nation whose geography means it is at the centre of vast fishing grounds which it exploits effectively. If they joined the EU, they would have to share their fishing grounds.

In comparison, we are a small, extremely-densely populated country with no natural resources to exploit (no wealth fund set up by Thatcher for the North Sea oil and gas).

Notable that Norway and Iceland are part of the Schengen zone so they have freedom of movement in the EU. They also pay to have access to the single market as members of the EEA! You probably couldn't have picked two worse examples to explain your aversion to the EU. They quite literally have almost all of the benefits of EU membership!

I'd be delighted if we could be members of the EEA and still have access to the single market. During the run up to the referendum, many of the Brexiteers even insinuated this is what we would have. Probably not feasible, unfortunately, because our economy is probably big enough that we wouldn't be admitted to the EEA and the xenophobes hate freedknof movement with a passion even though we obvious need and benefit from it.

As someone who voted to leave I firmly believed we would end up with a Norway style model and could reinstate our exclusive fishing zone. The deal sold the fishing industry down the river and leaving the single market was economic madness.
I would vote to rejoin if their was another referendum but cannot see that happening in the foreseeable.
I am writing this from my home in Greece which I never expected at the time of the referendum either, leaving the single market has massively affected the time I can stay here and the queues to get passports stamped on entry and leaving are also annoying

It's a result of the problem that the Leave campaign(s) were financed and led by such dodgy characters/chancers. A complete lack of discussion about what 'Brexit' would actually mean and incompetence from Cameron in the wording of the referendum meant that the Leave campaigns could promise everybody everything they wanted and nothing they didn't without the possibility of much of it actually occurring when reality hit.

A better-informed populace would have been nice, but the likes of the Telegraph, Express and Mail had been printing lies and distortions for decades so this was never going to be possible. They still lie and people still lap it up.

Unlike Iceland, the fishing industry is a tiny part of our economy and was always going to be the first thing to be dropped when serious negotiations with the EU began. Didn't stop the cakeism from the leading Brexiteers. That said, a lot of them weren't the brightest bunch, so perhaps some of them actually believed their own claims and it was only some who were being dishonest. Farage knew it was all bullshit when he was leading a flotilla up the Thames in another publicity stunt, but the media were still happy to report it, genereally uncritically.

Quoted from Maringer

It's a result of the problem that the Leave campaign(s) were financed and led by such dodgy characters/chancers. A complete lack of discussion about what 'Brexit' would actually mean and incompetence from Cameron in the wording of the referendum meant that the Leave campaigns could promise everybody everything they wanted and nothing they didn't without the possibility of much of it actually occurring when reality hit.

A better-informed populace would have been nice, but the likes of the Telegraph, Express and Mail had been printing lies and distortions for decades so this was never going to be possible. They still lie and people still lap it up.

Unlike Iceland, the fishing industry is a tiny part of our economy and was always going to be the first thing to be dropped when serious negotiations with the EU began. Didn't stop the cakeism from the leading Brexiteers. That said, a lot of them weren't the brightest bunch, so perhaps some of them actually believed their own claims and it was only some who were being dishonest. Farage knew it was all bullshit when he was leading a flotilla up the Thames in another publicity stunt, but the media were still happy to report it, genereally uncritically.

Farage is still getting airtime, despite being a complete non entity. Of course, he is blaming others for the complete failure of Brexit.

I can't quite decide who I would want to punch senseless more: Farage, Rees Smug or Gove.

Quoted from ginnywings

Farage is still getting airtime, despite being a complete non entity. Of course, he is blaming others for the complete failure of Brexit.

I can't quite decide who I would want to punch senseless more: Farage, Rees Smug or Gove.

Line them up closely in single file, have a decent run up and you could probably punch through all three in a oner!
If you didn’t you could keep trying. Winner!!

It’s mind blowing how little research people did when it came to the Brexit vote, and how happy people were to believe serial liars. Johnson has literally made a career of being a lying scheming girl private, why would this be any different. A quick google search told you he’s actually been very much in favour of the EU and being part of it.

The simple fact is people for it, really easily and believed the whole sovereignty balderdash. They allowed their prejudices and pseudo patriotism to get in the way of a decision which had effectively copulated them. Madness…

And now it’s even flipping football…