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Quoted from BobbyCummingsTackle

I watched the second half live and it was entertaining stuff but hardly high quality. County looked the better side in terms of football but lacked a bite up front (which could have been due to Wrexham's defending). Wrexham did look dangerous when they got the ball out to the wings or to Mullin.

Some of the defending from both teams was Keystone Cops stuff.

But,

One of the commentators said that either of these teams could hold their own in League 1!!!!!!

Both would need much more quality to be able to do that, it was either a stupid or naive comment.

Possibly a little OTT, but teams that have finished Conference seasons on 100+ points do tend to find themselves in League One in fairly quick succession. Crawley went straight through, Fleetwood needed an extra season and Luton took a little longer, but history does tend to suggest that exceptional teams promoted to League Two do more than ok there.

Wrexham are now nailed on to join us in the EFL next season, but in terms of our own selfish interests it’s probably best that North County fail in the play-offs. With Forest Green coming down, both those two coming up and Stockport, Bradford, Salford, Swindon and Mansfield all possibly still with us, League Two could find itself very well heeled indeed - probably record levels of wealth in fact.

Our budget will increase, that has been confirmed, but it looks like it could still fall well outside of top 7 levels if certain things prevail.

Still hoping Notts pip them to the top but a rematch with Wrexham in League 2 will be a cracking atmosphere..

Quoted from TwoLeftFeet

Still hoping Notts pip them to the top but a rematch with Wrexham in League 2 will be a cracking atmosphere..

Wrexham are currently 1/20 to County’s 10/1 - a ratio that has them 200x more likely to lift the title. I think that is somewhat swayed by the money that will have gone on Wrexham this season, as it’s not quite that clear cut.

They have 4 games to play; v Barnet and Boreham Wood who are in the play-off hunt, and Yeovil and Torquay who remain in with a sniff of avoiding relegation. If they lost 2 of them, 3 County wins from 3 would would see it come down to GD with Notts marginally more likely to come out on top.

It’s absolutely Wrexham’s to lose, but they still have to keep their nerve.

Quoted from Poojah

It’s absolutely Wrexham’s to lose, but they still have to keep their nerve.

Not to forget that they are somewhat hampered by having Parkinson as their manager...

The donkeys that run the National League must be scared sh1tless, once these two go up there will be no stories down there to draw interest to level 5.

I think Parkinson will be gone by Christmas. L2 is a different animal, there are no part time glorified pub teams in L2, very very few basket cases and they’ll get found out by some of the better and cleverer teams at this level.

Quoted from Mariner_09

I think Parkinson will be gone by Christmas. L2 is a different animal, there are no part time glorified pub teams in L2, very very few basket cases and they’ll get found out by some of the better and cleverer teams at this level.

I'm pretty sure they'll be right up there and his job will be safe whilst they are.

Despite their fans' generosity last season and RR being a genuine long-term investor etc etc, I find myself wanting them to lose. His interviews just grate with me; "this is about Notts County, Notts County is unique", and babbling on about it being a good thing he didn't discover Wrexham a few years ago, because it would have wrecked him. Then the conversation in the tunnel with Ben Foster about the penalty save and it being the most amazing thing ever (he seemed to have forgotten about a 9-goal thriller he once watched). There is drama like that most weeks somewhere in the football world. We are going to have to put up with this feckin media circus in League 2 next season. Feck 'em, I hope Barnet beat them next week and Mullin gets sent off.

I watched the game yesterday and thought County were much the better team in the first half. Wrexham were totally reliant on long balls for Mullin to chase and fall over. Second half I thought they upped their game and deserved to come back.
Think they will be right up there challenging next season, especially considering the amount of money they'll be splashing around

Quoted from Mariner_09

I think Parkinson will be gone by Christmas. L2 is a different animal, there are no part time glorified PUB TEAMS teams in L2, very very few basket cases and they’ll get found out by some of the better and cleverer teams at this level.

Pub teams, ah so expertly describes scunny.

Quoted from Limerick Mariner

Despite their fans' generosity last season and RR being a genuine long-term investor etc etc, I find myself wanting them to lose. His interviews just grate with me; "this is about Notts County, Notts County is unique", and babbling on about it being a good thing he didn't discover Wrexham a few years ago, because it would have wrecked him. Then the conversation in the tunnel with Ben Foster about the penalty save and it being the most amazing thing ever (he seemed to have forgotten about a 9-goal thriller he once watched). There is drama like that most weeks somewhere in the football world. We are going to have to put up with this feckin media circus in League 2 next season. Feck 'em, I hope Barnet beat them next week and Mullin gets sent off.

At least they will probably fill the away end though and bring us some coverage , i actually am glad for Wrexham they have had a long time of missing out (b4 the yanks got involved ) and had hard times so they should enjoy the ride -i dont think it will end in tears , the deadpool boys might get bored but even if they did Wrexham could operate at league 1 /champ level you would have thought as long as they keep gaining fans i suppose it would be the acid test if the Americans walked away and they started declining would the fans lose interest ; the 6k new ones?

I like both Wrexham and Notts County and their fans were class last season with us. They both belong in the EFL, but Mullin is a continual cheat, and cheats shouldn’t prosper.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

The donkeys that run the National League must be scared sh1tless, once these two go up there will be no stories down there to draw interest to level 5.

Especially now that Scunny won't be in there next season ;)

Quoted from FishOutOfWater

Especially now that Scunny won't be in there next season ;)

No it might actually be more interesting though it will be an even play field (ish) if they both go as there wont really be anyone that stands out -actually keep an eye on the national league as i got quite in to it with us being down there and enjoyed some of the little grounds -Weymouth are going right down through national south now .

Quoted from Mappers

No it might actually be more interesting though it will be an even play field (ish) if they both go as there wont really be anyone that stands out -actually keep an eye on the national league as i got quite in to it with us being down there and enjoyed some of the little grounds -Weymouth are going right down through national south now .

If Southend and Oldham could get their acts together, you'd think it'd be a relatively level playing field between Chesterfield, Southend and Oldham and if say Hartlepool/Rochdale go down. The knock on is L2 is harder for us.

Quoted from Mariner_09

If Southend and Oldham could get their acts together, you'd think it'd be a relatively level playing field between Chesterfield, Southend and Oldham and if say Hartlepool/Rochdale go down. The knock on is L2 is harder for us.

Think Southend are in a mess are they not , Oldham & Chesterfield should have a good go . I cannot see Rochdale making waves tbh or Crawley if they go think they could be the next Scunny (sweet to say that ) Hartlepool i am hoping stay up if they bring that sort of following again .

Quoted from Sir Matt Tease

After having watched the mighty mariners smash and grab at Doncaster yesterday, I watched the highlights of the Wrexham v Notts Co game.

Whilst having to admit that Paul Mullin is a very good striker I'd forgotten what a cheating bar steward he actually is.

Having conned the referee into giving a penalty against us, yesterday he was at his theatrical best.

Some of his antics in the box yesterday were just totally embarrassing.

What a prize tw*t !!!!!!!!

I'd have him here in a heartbeat

Just re-watched the highlights from the Wrexham V Town game . It will be good when they come up i will join in with the lower regulars and 'give him some' (even though he will probably score ) seems a right master of the dark arts him the league 2 refs as gullible as they are will take it right in .

Just because they pay L1 wages, doesn’t mean they’re of L1 standard (mainly because they don’t have a L1 manager).

I’m happy for the genuine Wrexham fans, the ones that were rightly sceptical about the takeover and what it might mean for their club long term. I loved the fact that their fans donated to our cause so soon after we’d beaten them, but…

I’d still want County to go up ahead of them. Sadly, money does talk in this game, in the end. It would’ve been very interesting to see what the Wrexham owners would’ve done had they lost on Mon and stayed in the NL. They can’t keep ‘investing’ to that degree and staying exactly where they are.

I understand why people don't like Parkinson, but come on, it looks like his side will top 110 points this season. So he can't be that bad a manager surely?

Quoted from Mappers

Think Southend are in a mess are they not , Oldham & Chesterfield should have a good go . I cannot see Rochdale making waves tbh or Crawley if they go think they could be the next Scunny (sweet to say that ) Hartlepool i am hoping stay up if they bring that sort of following again .

That's what I mean re Southend getting their act together. If they can get their off field issues resolved they'll be a seriously big hitter in that league (on the basis Wrexham and Notts County have joined us back in the League).

Quoted from Mariner_09

That's what I mean re Southend getting their act together. If they can get their off field issues resolved they'll be a seriously big hitter in that league (on the basis Wrexham and Notts County have joined us back in the League).

They should be mate but they wont while they have that chairman in charge its the same sort of show as Fenty , Swann etc a total mess
Always liked Southend remind me of us a bit

I didn't watch it live but I've watched the game since on a replay and was shocked at how poor the defending was. If that's the standard of defending that gets you to over 100 points then the division must be seriously weak this season.

Quoted from mariner91

I didn't watch it live but I've watched the game since on a replay and was shocked at how poor the defending was. If that's the standard of defending that gets you to over 100 points then the division must be seriously weak this season.

Wasn't great last year, I remember a certain team scoring a total of 7 against the pair of them away from home in six days last May..........

Apologise if already mentioned on here but Mullin is on £4,500 per week at Wrexham (allegedly)

We need to up our game next season.

Quoted from promotion plaice

Apologise if already mentioned on here but Mullin is on £4,500 per week at Wrexham (allegedly)

We need to up our game next season.

£2k for his footballing ability and £2.5k for his acting ability?

Quoted from promotion plaice

Apologise if already mentioned on here but Mullin is on £4,500 per week at Wrexham (allegedly)

We need to up our game next season.

I have no idea of our wage structure but I'm guessing we won't be paying that sort of money.

Quoted from promotion plaice

Apologise if already mentioned on here but Mullin is on £4,500 per week at Wrexham (allegedly)

We need to up our game next season.

Wrexham are going to heavily distort the market next season. Even in a higher league, they're going to be able to blow us ALL out of the water financially again. Whether Parkinson's dinosaur tactics get sussed out by enough teams remains to be seen, I happen to think they will be.

There will be a knock on as well, everyone will have to up their game to try and compete with Wrexham. Hursty has spoken about maybe having to pay wages he's not naturally comfortable with, but accepts we'll have to or we'll miss out on a load of targets again.

Quoted from OddShapedBalls

£2k for his footballing ability and £2.5k for his acting ability?

He's not even a great actor, but he certainly is persistent...

Quoted from Mariner_09

Wrexham are going to heavily distort the market next season. Even in a higher league, they're going to be able to blow us ALL out of the water financially again. Whether Parkinson's dinosaur tactics get sussed out by enough teams remains to be seen, I happen to think they will be.

There will be a knock on as well, everyone will have to up their game to try and compete with Wrexham. Hursty has spoken about maybe having to pay wages he's not naturally comfortable with, but accepts we'll have to or we'll miss out on a load of targets again.

It’s going to be a tough, tough league next season, and I suspect we’ll need to improve quite a bit just to stand still, let alone better this season’s finish.

If both Wrexham and Notts County come up then that’s two bank rolled clubs along with Forest Green coming down. Stockport could still be here too; it’s probably in our interest that they go up.

Then you’ve got Bradford, Swindon and Wimbledon all with substantially higher gates than us. Perhaps the one saving grace is that it doesn’t look like we’ve got “big” clubs coming down from League One, but make no mistake, we need to be on it if we are to have a successful season by most Town fan’s standards and expectations.

Quoted from Mariner_09

Wrexham are going to heavily distort the market next season. Even in a higher league, they're going to be able to blow us ALL out of the water financially again. Whether Parkinson's dinosaur tactics get sussed out by enough teams remains to be seen, I happen to think they will be.

There will be a knock on as well, everyone will have to up their game to try and compete with Wrexham. Hursty has spoken about maybe having to pay wages he's not naturally comfortable with, but accepts we'll have to or we'll miss out on a load of targets again.

It will be bonkers

Notts will go flat out to ,get in to more debt ,others will go silly .

We will have a budget ball park mid table (even with the cup run ) , making a loss and Jason + Andrew investing circa 1 million quid .

The games gone mad unfortunately
I wonder what our budget would be if we ran an actual sustainable now break even model ?

Bottom ?

Quoted from Mappers

It will be bonkers

Notts will go flat out to ,get in to more debt ,others will go silly .

We will have a budget ball park mid table (even with the cup run ) , making a loss and Jason + Andrew investing circa 1 million quid .

The games gone mad unfortunately
I wonder what our budget would be if we ran an actual sustainable now break even model ?

Bottom ?

[img]https://www.thebusinessdesk.com/_files/images/feb_20/John-Fenty-500x375.jpg[/img]

Quoted from Poojah

It’s going to be a tough, tough league next season, and I suspect we’ll need to improve quite a bit just to stand still, let alone better this season’s finish.

If both Wrexham and Notts County come up then that’s two bank rolled clubs along with Forest Green coming down. Stockport could still be here too; it’s probably in our interest that they go up.

Then you’ve got Bradford, Swindon and Wimbledon all with substantially higher gates than us. Perhaps the one saving grace is that it doesn’t look like we’ve got “big” clubs coming down from League One, but make no mistake, we need to be on it if we are to have a successful season by most Town fan’s standards and expectations.

I give you most of that but would not say Wimbledon have
substantially higher gates than us they average 1k more but in reality its a few hundred as they count seats sold whereas we count bums on seats , adding to that they are effectively a fan owned club (a good one) with minimal investment so are not going to be up there in terms of budget

Quoted from Mappers

I give you most of that but would not say Wimbledon have
substantially higher gates than us they average 1k more but in reality its a few hundred as they count seats sold whereas we count bums on seats , adding to that they are effectively a fan owned club (a good one) with minimal investment so are not going to be up there in terms of budget

Fair enough, consider myself corrected! :)

Clubs like Wrexham create problems for others, but that doesn't fit the narrative of the media, who just want to sell the story of rags to riches.

I watched Welcome to Wrexham. I kind of like (and admire) McElhenney; I think he gets it. He's absorbed by sport, and just wants something to be passionate about. I don't get Reynolds, though. Cynically, I think he's in it for different reasons.

But, for all the good intentions they have - buying back the stadium, redeveloping the kop, investing £££ in helping them get out that league, promoting the club in the community, raising aspirations in the town... it's admirable, but through the sheer amount of money they're spending to do this - and do it as quickly as possible - it's forcing other clubs at that level to spend more, just in the hope that they can compete.

I reckon most teams in the top half of the NL are spending beyond what they can afford. I reckon most teams in the bottom half know they can't compete at the top but are still spending more than they can afford to simply battle against relegation since 'bigger' teams are being squeezed down the league by the big spenders.

It's a worrying knock-on effect. Clubs might not go bust today, but they might in the near future. By that time, Wrexham could be in L1 or the Championship, long gone. But the trail of destruction they leave in their wake will be felt by others for a long time to come.

Football has changed so much in the past couple of decades. It's in such a position that I genuinely think Scunny will struggle to ever get back to L2. Unless they find another sugar daddy.

We got back into the FL at just the right time. Your Accringtons, Morecambes, etc - those small clubs who have done remarkably well to reach L1 - will start to filter back down. Big spenders (over-spenders) will continue to climb.

The only hope we have of progressing up the leagues is by continuing to operate sensibly and sustainably, and watch other big clubs fall on hard times when their benefactors start to pull out. The likes of Bolton, Coventry and Portsmouth have all fallen into this league in recent times. More will probably follow.

Their bad stewardship may help nudge us up the league ladder one rung at a time, but we still have to do our bit and not get involved in paying silly wages to players. That might mean we never built a title-winning squad, so we'll have to find other, cleverer, ways to grow - and that's where I think the value of JS and AP comes in.

Quoted from Maringer

He's not even a great actor, but he certainly is persistent...

Are we still talking about mullin or moved onto Reynolds?

Quoted from Poojah

Fair enough, consider myself corrected! :)

Tbf they have got a good fanbase , was dissapointed to not make it to their new little ground and quite looking forward to that last game of the season against them .

Gillingham seem to have gone scatter gun throwing money all over the place to ,new owners i believe -whether that will continue who knows .
Salford are losing 70k a week or whatever to going silly .FGR is an interesting one , maybe veggie man is not investing as much now , realising 3-4mil of bean sprouts is a better investment than trying to survive in league 1 .
Donny are apparently going to have 'substantial funds 'injected in to the playing budget to ,their fans seem slightly dubious though so wait and see on that one .
Mansfield throw loads at it

And no doubt many more besides

Maybe we should get our coats

Or try and go right through GY style

Quoted from RichMariner

Clubs like Wrexham create problems for others, but that doesn't fit the narrative of the media, who just want to sell the story of rags to riches.

I watched Welcome to Wrexham. I kind of like (and admire) McElhenney; I think he gets it. He's absorbed by sport, and just wants something to be passionate about. I don't get Reynolds, though. Cynically, I think he's in it for different reasons.

But, for all the good intentions they have - buying back the stadium, redeveloping the kop, investing £££ in helping them get out that league, promoting the club in the community, raising aspirations in the town... it's admirable, but through the sheer amount of money they're spending to do this - and do it as quickly as possible - it's forcing other clubs at that level to spend more, just in the hope that they can compete.

I reckon most teams in the top half of the NL are spending beyond what they can afford. I reckon most teams in the bottom half know they can't compete at the top but are still spending more than they can afford to simply battle against relegation since 'bigger' teams are being squeezed down the league by the big spenders.

It's a worrying knock-on effect. Clubs might not go bust today, but they might in the near future. By that time, Wrexham could be in L1 or the Championship, long gone. But the trail of destruction they leave in their wake will be felt by others for a long time to come.

Football has changed so much in the past couple of decades. It's in such a position that I genuinely think Scunny will struggle to ever get back to L2. Unless they find another sugar daddy.

We got back into the FL at just the right time. Your Accringtons, Morecambes, etc - those small clubs who have done remarkably well to reach L1 - will start to filter back down. Big spenders (over-spenders) will continue to climb.

The only hope we have of progressing up the leagues is by continuing to operate sensibly and sustainably, and watch other big clubs fall on hard times when their benefactors start to pull out. The likes of Bolton, Coventry and Portsmouth have all fallen into this league in recent times. More will probably follow.

Their bad stewardship may help nudge us up the league ladder one rung at a time, but we still have to do our bit and not get involved in paying silly wages to players. That might mean we never built a title-winning squad, so we'll have to find other, cleverer, ways to grow - and that's where I think the value of JS and AP comes in.

And there in lies the problem we will have, at least in the short term. JS and AP have said that the cup monies will go into the playing budget, but we are not going to get to the QF every year and so can that budget be sustainable? The expectations of the fan base is now higher because more budget should mean better players and looking up rather than down, but us, the fan base, have to realistic about next season and beyond imo. I don’t have an answer, I’m not even sure I have asked a question, but I at least believe we have the right owners to do things in a sustainable way, shirt, medium and longer term.

Quoted from RichMariner

Clubs like Wrexham create problems for others, but that doesn't fit the narrative of the media, who just want to sell the story of rags to riches.

I watched Welcome to Wrexham. I kind of like (and admire) McElhenney; I think he gets it. He's absorbed by sport, and just wants something to be passionate about. I don't get Reynolds, though. Cynically, I think he's in it for different reasons.

But, for all the good intentions they have - buying back the stadium, redeveloping the kop, investing £££ in helping them get out that league, promoting the club in the community, raising aspirations in the town... it's admirable, but through the sheer amount of money they're spending to do this - and do it as quickly as possible - it's forcing other clubs at that level to spend more, just in the hope that they can compete.

I reckon most teams in the top half of the NL are spending beyond what they can afford. I reckon most teams in the bottom half know they can't compete at the top but are still spending more than they can afford to simply battle against relegation since 'bigger' teams are being squeezed down the league by the big spenders.

It's a worrying knock-on effect. Clubs might not go bust today, but they might in the near future. By that time, Wrexham could be in L1 or the Championship, long gone. But the trail of destruction they leave in their wake will be felt by others for a long time to come.

Football has changed so much in the past couple of decades. It's in such a position that I genuinely think Scunny will struggle to ever get back to L2. Unless they find another sugar daddy.

We got back into the FL at just the right time. Your Accringtons, Morecambes, etc - those small clubs who have done remarkably well to reach L1 - will start to filter back down. Big spenders (over-spenders) will continue to climb.

The only hope we have of progressing up the leagues is by continuing to operate sensibly and sustainably, and watch other big clubs fall on hard times when their benefactors start to pull out. The likes of Bolton, Coventry and Portsmouth have all fallen into this league in recent times. More will probably follow.

Their bad stewardship may help nudge us up the league ladder one rung at a time, but we still have to do our bit and not get involved in paying silly wages to players. That might mean we never built a title-winning squad, so we'll have to find other, cleverer, ways to grow - and that's where I think the value of JS and AP comes in.

Great post Rich Mariner and echoes much of my thoughts
You just missed out the cherry ......
'Could be the next Scunthorpe utd '

Quoted from Posh Harry

Are we still talking about mullin or moved onto Reynolds?

Reynolds is a better actor than Mullin, but every one of his roles is a variation of the same character.

Mullin's acting is similarly single-minded - get into a position to fall over and then fall over. He's also a decent striker, of course, when he's not busy falling over.

Regards Wrexham’s effect on the wider game at the lower levels, they’re part of the problem of course, but I’m not sure it’s a big part.

Football has always been a meritocracy, and it’s always been built on capitalist principles. However, in the last 30 years it’s been distorted by a the compound effect of television and the globalisation of the game. Club incomes used to be vaguely proportionate to the size of their fan base and gates, but the further up the pyramid you go the less those factors correlate, or at least the less those correlations matter, such is the scale of incomes away from match days.

Naturally, that’s created an environment where clubs stretch beyond their means in order to climb the leagues and reach the financial holy grail that is the Premier League. There’s more than enough money in football, it’s just not proportionately distributed, which leads clubs of levels of inorganic expenditure in order to succeed or at least compete.

That’s a much bigger and far more nuanced and complex problem than Wrexham, who in fairness have created a model which is sustainable to a certain point. They’ve just created a left-field source of income that other clubs simply do not have. It’s clever, whether you like it or not, and I suspect is the brain child not of Rob McElhenney or Ryan Reynolds but rather some forward thinking investment group who simply needed celebrity endorsement for the whole thing to work. R&R will not have “invested” a cent of their own money in this.

They will go through League Two with relative ease, may find League One tricky before selling up (at least in part) once they reach the Championship and require outright cash injections of substantial quantities in order to progress further. But by then they’ll be an attractive proposition, won’t they? A club potentially on the cusp of the Premier League with a global, cult following and a profile well beyond that of your average second tier side.

Ultimately it’s a money making scheme that actually benefits the club involved; it’s uniquely win-win. Do I like it? Not really. Do I like the way that football and its historic clubs are being used as pawns in some rich man’s game? No. But there are bigger evils out there than Wrexham and their so-called owners. Make no mistake.

Quoted from Poojah

But by then they’ll be an attractive proposition, won’t they? A club potentially on the cusp of the Premier League with a global, cult following and a profile well beyond that of your average second tier side.

It's this bit that I struggle to understand as part of their business model.

There's a life span for the Welcome to Wrexham type shows and it's generally quite short.  Their new found fanbase will soon tire and find something else to get their teeth into for their next faux fix.   Be it before that or as a result of, the TV deal will disappear and with a reduced audience as will the TikTok sponsorship deals.

Sure, they're tapping into the local population and boosting their gates as a result.  But I'm neither sure they'll remain for the long haul, certainly not at the point where they reach a plateau or decline.  Even with the inflated gates, I can't imagine it's enough to cover their outlay their making in wages and absolutely not enough to fund League One promotion bids.

To me anyway it feels like a really, really unsustainable plan that's solely built up around the cult of personality that comes with Reynolds and the other one.  The tag-a-long fans will be gone before you can even blink at the first glimpse of something newer and shinier.

Quoted from Posh Harry

And there in lies the problem we will have, at least in the short term. JS and AP have said that the cup monies will go into the playing budget, but we are not going to get to the QF every year and so can that budget be sustainable? The expectations of the fan base is now higher because more budget should mean better players and looking up rather than down, but us, the fan base, have to realistic about next season and beyond imo. I don’t have an answer, I’m not even sure I have asked a question, but I at least believe we have the right owners to do things in a sustainable way, shirt, medium and longer term.

I might be in the minority here but in a way i would rather the FA cup money was spent on the infrastructure , keeping season ticket prices reasonable ,adding a small covered temporary stand in one of the corners and a little increase in the playing budget to leave a little bit of legacy from the great achievement .

The sad reality is it cant/wont happen because of the pressure to just sustain and compete at this level , it will be used for just that .

And we know some fans (of all clubs ) just care about the 3 points on a Saturday ,and what goes on,on the pitch ; which is fair enough but like everything in life you can't have it both ways .

Finding the balancing act between all these variables is Jason and Andrews biggest challenge IMO if they are to reach the goal of a sustainable model ,if thats even possible eventually .

Quoted from diehardmariner

It's this bit that I struggle to understand as part of their business model.

There's a life span for the Welcome to Wrexham type shows and it's generally quite short.  Their new found fanbase will soon tire and find something else to get their teeth into for their next faux fix.   Be it before that or as a result of, the TV deal will disappear and with a reduced audience as will the TikTok sponsorship deals.

Sure, they're tapping into the local population and boosting their gates as a result.  But I'm neither sure they'll remain for the long haul, certainly not at the point where they reach a plateau or decline.  Even with the inflated gates, I can't imagine it's enough to cover their outlay their making in wages and absolutely not enough to fund League One promotion bids.

To me anyway it feels like a really, really unsustainable plan that's solely built up around the cult of personality that comes with Reynolds and the other one.  The tag-a-long fans will be gone before you can even blink at the first glimpse of something newer and shinier.

It all rests on the longevity of the TV show, absolutely, along with their ability to get through the leagues as quickly as possible. That penalty save on Monday has potentially saved them from a whole host of problems.

The exit plan if interest dries up sooner than they can reach an “attractive” level will be interesting. I do think though that the element of celebrity affords them a much longer and more lucrative shelf-life than documentaries about Sunderland, Spurs or Man City. It’s cringe, but the appeal is bigger than football and I think that’s their joker.

The perfect story for the show would be for them to miss out on automatic promotion due to a last-minute goal, but then 'redeem' themselves with a play-off victory at Wembley.

Quoted from Maringer

The perfect story for the show would be for them to miss out on automatic promotion due to a last-minute goal, but then 'redeem' themselves with a play-off victory at Wembley.

The redemption narrative is already nearly complete sadly

It's the exit plan that I'm also interested in.

With Shaun Harvey pulling strings, I genuinely don't believe they're being run in a sensible way. They're throwing money at it. I saw the bit where McElhenney asks: 'Is this sustainable?' and Harvey's response was: 'It's sustainable as long as you're happy to sustain it.'

I mean, that's a guy just endorsing ridiculous spending, with no plan for a future where things may change, or not work out.

Like every other club out there with a dependency on one person, or an income that will dry up at some point, the day the money stops flowing in is the day they fall back to where they were (or fall even further).

At the moment I'm sure it seems to all Wrexham fans like Hollywood will be around forever. But things change. Personal circumstances change. The owners have plenty more projects in the US. A global pandemic might come along. Who knows?

So when (not if) Wrexham's funding situation changes, will they be in a position to support themselves? Will they be breaking even on income based on attendances and standard league sponsorship?

It's likely they'll be well short. So the search will be on to find another sugar daddy to save them from falling away into the abyss once again, and the circle is complete.

The one thing that troubles me most, though, about that takeover, is that after watching the whole series I still didn't hear them answer the question: Why Wrexham?

If Wrexham are smart, then whilst the money is there they will re-brand themselves as representing all north Wales and get into all the schools and youth leagues heavily to try and create a next generation of lots of regional fans. There's a million people neglected of any real sports up there, RGC pre-covid were getting average gates of over 1900 (over 3000 for some games) and that's only part time semi-pro rugby. Ultimately it's too tribal to work with the current residents but there's an opportunity there to try at least - about the only thing that will sustain them once Rob and Ryan go unless they've cracked the prem by that point and can dine out on tv money.

Quoted from RichMariner

It's the exit plan that I'm also interested in.

With Shaun Harvey pulling strings, I genuinely don't believe they're being run in a sensible way. They're throwing money at it. I saw the bit where McElhenney asks: 'Is this sustainable?' and Harvey's response was: 'It's sustainable as long as you're happy to sustain it.'

I mean, that's a guy just endorsing ridiculous spending, with no plan for a future where things may change, or not work out.

Like every other club out there with a dependency on one person, or an income that will dry up at some point, the day the money stops flowing in is the day they fall back to where they were (or fall even further).

At the moment I'm sure it seems to all Wrexham fans like Hollywood will be around forever. But things change. Personal circumstances change. The owners have plenty more projects in the US. A global pandemic might come along. Who knows?

So when (not if) Wrexham's funding situation changes, will they be in a position to support themselves? Will they be breaking even on income based on attendances and standard league sponsorship?

It's likely they'll be well short. So the search will be on to find another sugar daddy to save them from falling away into the abyss once again, and the circle is complete.

The one thing that troubles me most, though, about that takeover, is that after watching the whole series I still didn't hear them answer the question: Why Wrexham?

I'm not sure there is an exit plan, from what I can see they're building some stuff around them so that they can move away from one income stream. I don't like Parkinson (personal choice) and Mullin is a chaeting f****r who actually has decent ablity at lower league level and does not have to cheat which boils my p!ss even more.

The owners seem to have got their head around most of the rules and seem like they're pretty decent and visible so fair play.

Someone said that Parkinson won't last long, not sure that's the case to be honest as when they come up they'll challenge for another promotion and while there's a chance he'll be o.k which to be fair is another positive thing from the owners as swopping and changing managers is stupid.

What I do think though is that as they progress up the league they'll need someone more credible than Harvey, in fact he could be the first victim of their success, I hope.

Quoted from OddShapedBalls

If Wrexham are smart, then whilst the money is there they will re-brand themselves as representing all north Wales and get into all the schools and youth leagues heavily to try and create a next generation of lots of regional fans. There's a million people neglected of any real sports up there, RGC pre-covid were getting average gates of over 1900 (over 3000 for some games) and that's only part time semi-pro rugby. Ultimately it's too tribal to work with the current residents but there's an opportunity there to try at least - about the only thing that will sustain them once Rob and Ryan go unless they've cracked the prem by that point and can dine out on tv money.

Wrexham is equivalent in size to Grimsby and Cleethorpes. Without Hollywood money they could comfortably survive as a League 1/ Championship side. I live on the midwales coast, and there are a handful of Wrexham fans here. Apparently back in the day they used to get a coach together to get to home games, so there are potential fans out here. If they handle it well they could definitely tap in to being Tîm Gogledd Cymru

There are a couple of ways we can compete with the Wrexham's of this world.

One would be a strict salary cap for all teams, which has no loopholes to exploit, so everyone has the same pot, but that was quickly abandoned when tried and challenged. We have the SCMP and the 55% expenditure to income for league 2 clubs, but it's clear from teams like Salford that there are ways around it, namely "sponsorship". We can clearly be outspent on playing squads by teams with fewer fans, so this route is a no go for us as the owners are not willing to pump in endless amounts of their personal wealth. We could get more investors, but again, the owners won't just allow anyone into the club because they flash the cash it seems.

The second way is for us to be smarter in our recruitment, probably using the data analytics approach adopted by the likes of Brentford. This of course is nothing new, and I think most teams now do this to a certain degree. I'm hoping that with Stockwood's previous experience in the world of computer algorithms, we can be ahead of the game in this regard, or certainly at the forefront. He did make reference to this in his Guardian article the other day, and I think we are already making strides in this area.

Quoted from RichMariner

It's the exit plan that I'm also interested in.

With Shaun Harvey pulling strings, I genuinely don't believe they're being run in a sensible way. They're throwing money at it. I saw the bit where McElhenney asks: 'Is this sustainable?' and Harvey's response was: 'It's sustainable as long as you're happy to sustain it.'

I mean, that's a guy just endorsing ridiculous spending, with no plan for a future where things may change, or not work out.

Like every other club out there with a dependency on one person, or an income that will dry up at some point, the day the money stops flowing in is the day they fall back to where they were (or fall even further).

At the moment I'm sure it seems to all Wrexham fans like Hollywood will be around forever. But things change. Personal circumstances change. The owners have plenty more projects in the US. A global pandemic might come along. Who knows?

So when (not if) Wrexham's funding situation changes, will they be in a position to support themselves? Will they be breaking even on income based on attendances and standard league sponsorship?

It's likely they'll be well short. So the search will be on to find another sugar daddy to save them from falling away into the abyss once again, and the circle is complete.

The one thing that troubles me most, though, about that takeover, is that after watching the whole series I still didn't hear them answer the question: Why Wrexham?

I think there can be a difference between being just unsustainable and endangering the club.

At scunny they paid out loads more than they earned under swann, in a bid to get to the championship (not sure what the plan would have been then if they had though) but this was all paid for in loans from swann. It was pretty much all spent on high wages for players they couldn't actually afford. When swann got bored he wanted his money back and the club wasn't worth any more than it was when he walked through the door and in no way could scunny generate the money to pay back what he had lent it, or be worth that amount to somebody willing to buy a NL club. This means the entire club is in huge jeopardybof existing due to how it was run. Any enjoyment that the fans had at the good times would be massively outweighed by now being the worst team they ever have been, with no prospect of getting back to where they were. And quite possibly ceasing to exist. The upside is massively outmatched by the downside.

For Wrexham however I think its different. Yes of course the Hollywood's will eventually walk away, but what will they leave afterwards? Well so far they are already setting in plans to have an increased capacity to 15k starting work this year - that just initself is a huge capital investment right there- it's been done to death on here about how important it is to do for us, and yet also how incredibly difficult it will be to achieve.
Sure they are massively overspending on wages, but big chunks of that ARE coming from huge actual increases in revenue (sell out crowds due to the increased interest, sponsorships from tik tok and aviator, massive shirt sales across the world (forbthat level of club) and also the moneyspinnibg Disney documentary obviously). If in a few years the Hollywood's walk away the fans will have had a far more interesting few years than they otherwise would have done, with a ground that's over 50% bigger, with a lot of that paid for in revenue generated. Even if they do then fall back to the abyss of NL they are Still better off than they were before and had a hell of a ride in the meantime. Of course it could be that Reynolds and the other one walk out on them leaving them in huge debts that nobody else is interested in picking up and the club folds. However I honestly don't think that is their intention and they would avoid that if possible due to the damage to their reputation if nothing else. More likely they will leave an improved club which intrinsically generates more cash than it did before they arrived and the supporters have some great times during their spell watching them win - but that club won't be able to sustain the spending it does now and they may drift back down the leagues. But just because they can't continue to generate that level of cash once Reynolds leaves isn't automatically a problem, unless they insist on spending like they can. If he walks away and 3 years later they're in league 2 with a 15k stadium they're still ahead of where they were when he arrived.

Quoted from scrumble

Wrexham is equivalent in size to Grimsby and Cleethorpes. Without Hollywood money they could comfortably survive as a League 1/ Championship side. I live on the midwales coast, and there are a handful of Wrexham fans here. Apparently back in the day they used to get a coach together to get to home games, so there are potential fans out here. If they handle it well they could definitely tap in to being Tîm Gogledd Cymru

Do I like that ..... looks like we are capable of going back right through to The Champ after all

Quoted from scrumble

Wrexham is equivalent in size to Grimsby and Cleethorpes. Without Hollywood money they could comfortably survive as a League 1/ Championship side. I live on the midwales coast, and there are a handful of Wrexham fans here. Apparently back in the day they used to get a coach together to get to home games, so there are potential fans out here. If they handle it well they could definitely tap in to being Tîm Gogledd Cymru

I'm old enough to remember when Town were promoted to the second tier under George Kerr and one of the teams waiting for us in that old second divison were Wrexham... I don't recall how long they'd been at that level but they were able to get there under their own steam back in the day

I know times change and money talks more than ever nowadays but if they are to get out of the National League this season and then push on through League 2 and beyond, I'd have thought they would have a fanbase that could maybe sustain the club at least at League 1 level ( especially given teams like Accrington, Oxford, Burton etc can do this)

Quoted from FishOutOfWater

I'm old enough to remember when Town were promoted to the second tier under George Kerr and one of the teams waiting for us in that old second divison were Wrexham... I don't recall how long they'd been at that level but they were able to get there under their own steam back in the day

I know times change and money talks more than ever nowadays but if they are to get out of the National League this season and then push on through League 2 and beyond, I'd have thought they would have a fanbase that could maybe sustain the club at least at League 1 level ( especially given teams like Accrington, Oxford, Burton etc can do this)

You can add Wycombe , Morecambe (up until this season ) ,Exeter ,Cheltenham and Cambridge to that list as well .

All those clubs have not thrown bucket loads of money at it , so it definitely gives hope that it is possible to survive in league 1 with a modest budget and in Wycombe actually thrive .

All this talk about only operating on sustainable income . What is sustainable income? Is TV money sustainable income wasnt when ITV Digital went bust. If you go down TV money falls with parachute payments now regarded as bad then that protection would fall. Crowds fall away if teams perform badly so how do you decide how much crowd income is sustainable. Football will always be the same it’s driven by dreams if the money is available it will be spent. If the ‘sustainable ‘ lobby get there way League position in the long run will simply be determined by size of town and stadium and the dream will die

Their approach so far has been to sign players from a division or two above. The playing side of things is obviously strong. My fear would be if they upgrade the manager. Darren Ferguson is only interim at Peterborough until the summer. If he came in I think they’d dominate this league.

Quoted from HerveJosse

All this talk about only operating on sustainable income . What is sustainable income? Is TV money sustainable income wasnt when ITV Digital went bust. If you go down TV money falls with parachute payments now regarded as bad then that protection would fall. Crowds fall away if teams perform badly so how do you decide how much crowd income is sustainable. Football will always be the same it’s driven by dreams if the money is available it will be spent. If the ‘sustainable ‘ lobby get there way League position in the long run will simply be determined by size of town and stadium and the dream will die

I have thought about your final point , surely there has to be some sort of middle ground between reckless spending ,investing in the right way and the right of owners to spend it as they see fit (as long as they have it ) , like you say it could be very rigid if the game is regulated to tight rules around spending V income and you would have a model like the Bundasliga where Bayern pretty much win it year on year (apart from it would be Utd here ,which I would hate).

I bet the 'big 6 ' would love it though , it would give them an easy out to the super league when they are a country mile above all the other teams in the league due to 'lack of competition' , it could never happen could it ?