I'm no expert but it looks like China is behind Russia in it's stance over the expansion of NATO.

Worrying times.

China and Russia always support each other against 'free' democratic countries. Winter will soon be ending and the Russians have supply routes in force for their troops. Come Spring I think we will find out the Russians true intentions beit brinkmanship or occupation of Ukraine.

Do we absolutely know that Russia are the bad guys? We get fed so much propaganda these days that I cannot help but to question the narrative.
Even as a kid growing up in the 70s and early 80s I was conscious of those bad Russians that had nukes pointing towards us, I’d heard about the reds under your beds, we had the James Bond bad guys, Ivan Drago and the woman they were all emotionless and hard as nails nothing good comes from Russia. The place is cold and inhospitable to foreigners,  they live isolated lives drinking vodka all day.

But then I started working with an older guy when in my early 20s and he was married to a Russian (who I met and found lovely) he’d  travelled there many times and described the place and the people as wonderful nothing like we are led to believe.
I think back to my school days learning about the war and again the good guys were the western Allies I don’t recall ever being taught how we defeated the Nazis with Russia it was always the British and Americans (mainly) as far as I was taught.

I’m not saying Putin is an angel but I do watch quite a lot of RT news purely for some kind of balance, yes there is an argument it’s under some kind of state control but so is the BBC you could also argue, and it’s interesting to see the exasperation on the channel at all the anti-Russian propaganda, they seem amused with good humour to be fair but not surprised at the constant blame gaming against their Country. Only the other day they was reporting on the Canadian government telling their citizens that the Canadian truck freedom protest was organised by the Kremlin😂

Not sure the Russians are really thinking of invading Ukraine. Looks like sabre-rattling to me as they've already got the bit they need in Crimea. The fact that NATO was making eyes at Ukraine was a really foolish decision because the Russians were never going to allow that due to access to the Black Sea. I suspect they are looking to force negotiations and a treaty to get the West to recognise Crimea as now being part of Russia (and most people in Crimea are happy with this).

The Chinese can continue their expansionist ways in the Pacific more easily if eyes are on Crimea, so no surprise that they are in support of the Russians.

Ultimately, we can't do anything about either of these superpowers as they have us over a barrel. Too much of Europe is reliant on Russian gas for heating and energy and most western countries are reliant on China after foolishly outsourcing all our manufacturing and industry out there to make a quick buck. It would take a serious programme of investment, construction and training to stop our reliance on these two countries. No chance of that occurring any time soon, unfortunately.

Quoted from Humbercod

Do we absolutely know that Russia are the bad guys? We get fed so much propaganda these days that I cannot help but to question the narrative.
Even as a kid growing up in the 70s and early 80s I was conscious of those bad Russians that had nukes pointing towards us, I’d heard about the reds under your beds, we had the James Bond bad guys, Ivan Drago and the woman they were all emotionless and hard as nails nothing good comes from Russia. The place is cold and inhospitable to foreigners,  they live isolated lives drinking vodka all day.

But then I started working with an older guy when in my early 20s and he was married to a Russian (who I met and found lovely) he’d  travelled there many times and described the place and the people as wonderful nothing like we are led to believe.
I think back to my school days learning about the war and again the good guys were the western Allies I don’t recall ever being taught how we defeated the Nazis with Russia it was always the British and Americans (mainly) as far as I was taught.

I’m not saying Putin is an angel but I do watch quite a lot of RT news purely for some kind of balance, yes there is an argument it’s under some kind of state control but so is the BBC you could also argue, and it’s interesting to see the exasperation on the channel at all the anti-Russian propaganda, they seem amused with good humour to be fair but not surprised at the constant blame gaming against their Country. Only the other day they was reporting on the Canadian government telling their citizens that the Canadian truck freedom protest was organised by the Kremlin😂

Well said (in parts) Comrade. People have to appreciate that Russia has been invaded three times in the last 200 years by supposed superpowers at the time, and has witnessed an expansion of NATO right up to its borders despite being promised that this wouldn’t happen following the collapse of the USSR.

There are issues regarding supplies of gas, national identity, internal politics and countless other factors that we will never really be able to comprehend, but the “Russia/China = bad, NATO = good” is reductive to a level that primary school children would see past it. It’s “reds under the bed” stuff. Tragic.

Fcuk Russia and China, nuke France.

Quoted from GYinScuntland

Fcuk Russia and China, nuke France.

And Scotland while we're at it  ;)

Putin is akin to a mafia boss who has siphoned billions of pounds into his own personal account, most of which is in London and plenty of our politicians have taken his wonga. There are campaigns to freeze his assets and those of other oligarchs who have staggering amounts of money in western banking systems, but as ever, money talks.

Putin doesn't care about Russia. He cares for himself and the tens of billions of dollars he has stolen from his countrymen.

Unfortunately, unlike other mafia bosses, he has a million strong army and nuclear weapons.

My biggest worry about any country starting a third world war is not Russia or China it is the USA .

They can't help it sticking their nose in other countries business they have lost a lot of good young men in various conflicts since 1945 but made a lot of money selling arms ect.

The good thing about having nuclear weapons is you will not use them because if you do you will get the same coming back at you.

Quoted from Maringer

  (and most people in Crimea are happy with this).

They held a referendum after they invaded the area, in a vote that was effectively at gun point.

Quoted from Maringer

Ultimately, we can't do anything about either of these superpowers as they have us over a barrel. Too much of Europe is reliant on Russian gas for heating and energy and most western countries are reliant on China after foolishly outsourcing all our manufacturing and industry out there to make a quick buck. It would take a serious programme of investment, construction and training to stop our reliance on these two countries. No chance of that occurring any time soon, unfortunately.

Here’s an idea why don’t we knock this Net zero bollox into touch? I know you’ve blocked me and yet still read my messages, so I’d like to say to you, as someone I believe who is well on board with the governments green agenda …you can’t have it both ways!

I listened to a woman on the radio the other day saying that her children miss out on doing their homework when the lights go out! What kind of country have we become when our own people cannot keep the flipping lights on? Is this really 2022? We sit on on approx 100 year worth of coal 50 years of shale gas that we won’t touch because our leaders want to virtue signal how carbon neutral the country is, whilst at the same time importing coal from China and gas from Russia insanity!

We know China and India will be increasing their carbon output massively over the next 20 years no felicitations given, especially when stupid country’s like ours put themselves in their palms of their hands again flipping madness.
Surely it would make more sense to lengthen the net zero timeline use the resources we have whilst the technologies and infrastructure can have time to catch up.

Whilst at parents evening at the back end of last year I got speaking to another parent who was telling me how well his eldest lad was doing 25k a year as a trainee wind turbine technician they even pay for his taxi to the dock and free meals whilst at work, I thought great good for him but I look back now thinking again more green BS jobs subsidised by people like poor Doris who can’t afford to keep her lights on. Up to 25% of your fuel bill according to various reports is green tax I bet the Green Party are well drunk off they have nothing left to fight the Government on.

The population is mostly ethnic Russian in Crimea though, isn't it? Only a small proportion is ethnic Ukrainians. It's all down to the odd decision by Khruschev (himself a Ukrainian) who transferred it to Ukraine back in 1954. OK, it was back in the Soviet era, but people don't forget their nationality that quickly. Lots of people will have grown up with their grandparents/parents telling them they were actually Russian. It certainly wouldn't surprise me at all if they had voted by such a wide margin to become part of Russia, especially given that so much of their economy is reliant on the Russian military.

Quoted from Humbercod

Here’s an idea why don’t we knock this Net zero bollox into touch? I know you’ve blocked me and yet still read my messages, so I’d like to say to you, as someone I believe who is well on board with the governments green agenda …you can’t have it both ways!

I listened to a woman on the radio the other day saying that her children miss out on doing their homework when the lights go out! What kind of country have we become when our own people cannot keep the flipping lights on? Is this really 2022? We sit on on approx 100 year worth of coal 50 years of shale gas that we won’t touch because our leaders want to virtue signal how carbon neutral the country is, whilst at the same time importing coal from China and gas from Russia insanity!

We know China and India will be increasing their carbon output massively over the next 20 years no felicitations given, especially when stupid country’s like ours put themselves in their palms of their hands again flipping madness.
Surely it would make more sense to lengthen the net zero timeline use the resources we have whilst the technologies and infrastructure can have time to catch up.

Whilst at parents evening at the back end of last year I got speaking to another parent who was telling me how well his eldest lad was doing 25k a year as a trainee wind turbine technician they even pay for his taxi to the dock and free meals whilst at work, I thought great good for him but I look back now thinking again more green BS jobs subsidised by people like poor Doris who can’t afford to keep her lights on. Up to 25% of your fuel bill according to various reports is green tax I bet the Green Party are well drunk off they have nothing left to fight the Government on.

You know the mines weren’t shut because of a green agenda don’t ya?

You know the price of energy hasn’t gone up because of a green agenda?

Even if WW3 does occur we need not worry-it will all be over in a flash!

Quoted from aldi_01

You know the mines weren’t shut because of a green agenda don’t ya?

You know the price of energy hasn’t gone up because of a green agenda?

Yes socialist unions not prepared to modernise made the mines financially uncompetitive. Times have changed shale gas and or coal need to be looked at along with localised mini Nuclear reactors we could be up and running in a few years.

You can mention the global markets for the increase but being self sufficient like the yanks thanks to Trump policy’s as seen their energy prices a fraction of wheat we pay! As for the green agenda you may be happy paying hundreds of pounds extra on you’re energy bills, but I can assure you there are millions of people struggling that given the chance wouldn’t pay this ridiculous levy.

Quoted from Maringer

The population is mostly ethnic Russian in Crimea though, isn't it? Only a small proportion is ethnic Ukrainians. It's all down to the odd decision by Khruschev (himself a Ukrainian) who transferred it to Ukraine back in 1954. OK, it was back in the Soviet era, but people don't forget their nationality that quickly. Lots of people will have grown up with their grandparents/parents telling them they were actually Russian. It certainly wouldn't surprise me at all if they had voted by such a wide margin to become part of Russia, especially given that so much of their economy is reliant on the Russian military.

It was still a breach of international law generally (I know all the ‘whatabouts’ in response to this) and a breach of their written commitment to Ukraine specifically. Not saying that Russia doesn’t rightly feel peeved st eastern expansion of NATO though.

But you have to ask yourself why the former Eastern Bloc countries and Soviet republics want to join. It ain’t because Russia is a nice cuddly neighbour.

I’m sceptical about this whole recent thing about an invasion though. The photo evidence of increasing military strength in those camps (one 250 km from the border) are not convincing. Most countries have armies near their borders. It’s what they do. It is a nice distraction technique for leaders in trouble. And it doesn’t do sales of F35s any harm.

Having said all that, I don’t trust Putin.

Russia has only one ally of any merit- China. China wouldn’t give Putin permission to invade Ukraine whilst the Winter Olympics are taking place in Beijing.

So what are we thinking? Will Russia invade during the closing ceremony or will they wait until Monday morning?

The response should be simple. Freeze the assets of the 50 highest profile oligarchs who hold Putin’s stolen wealth, throw Russia out of the SWIFT international payment system, ban Russia from all international sports completely and impose Iran style trade restrictions.

Putin won’t stop at Ukraine. Estonia, Latvia & Lithuania will be next if he gets always with invading Ukraine and imposing a Belarus-style pro-Russian puppet government on the country.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Russia has only one ally of any merit- China. China wouldn’t give Putin permission to invade Ukraine whilst the Winter Olympics are taking place in Beijing.

So what are we thinking? Will Russia invade during the closing ceremony or will they wait until Monday morning?

The response should be simple. Freeze the assets of the 50 highest profile oligarchs who hold Putin’s stolen wealth, throw Russia out of the SWIFT international payment system, ban Russia from all international sports completely and impose Iran style trade restrictions.

Putin won’t stop at Ukraine. Estonia, Latvia & Lithuania will be next if he gets always with invading Ukraine and imposing a Belarus-style pro-Russian puppet government on the country.

Think you need to stop watching BBC/SKY news.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

I’m sceptical about this whole recent thing about an invasion though. The photo evidence of increasing military strength in those camps (one 250 km from the border) are not convincing. Most countries have armies near their borders. It’s what they do. It is a nice distraction technique for leaders in trouble. And it doesn’t do sales of F35s any harm.

Having said all that, I don’t trust Putin,Johnson,Biden,Macron …edited for you 😉

When SKY news were frothing over the satellite images showing the Russian army at the ready, I expected a mass of armoured vehicles, 100s of tanks thousands of soldiers on the border but what the image showed was like a very minor military compound. Yesterday morning I checked the Sky News APP and the headlines were Russia troops to launch attack today 😫

Putin ups the stakes as he gives the order for Russia to stage massive nuclear exercise on Saturday.

https://www.gbnews.uk/news/putin-gives-order-for-russia-to-stage-massive-nuclear-exercise-as-ukraine-war-fears-erupt/228973

Quoted from promotion plaice

Putin ups the stakes as he gives the order for Russia to stage massive nuclear exercise on Saturday.

https://www.gbnews.uk/news/putin-gives-order-for-russia-to-stage-massive-nuclear-exercise-as-ukraine-war-fears-erupt/228973

….but you shouldn’t pay any attention to the Woke metropolitan elite media, says Humbugcod. 😆

I don’t think Gammon Brexit News represents the woke liberal metropolitan elite, whoever they are.

Quoted from Humbercod

Think you need to stop watching BBC/SKY news.

You’d have been one of those people in 1938 saying “Hitler will stop after the Sudetenland.”

Quoted from chaos33

I don’t think Gammon Brexit News represents the woke liberal metropolitan elite, whoever they are.

Sarcasm Chaos. Sarcasm.

Any War yet you gullible liberals 😂
Even Ukraine asking the West to stop trying to predict war dates! It’s almost as if the West powers want a war…. I wonder why 🤔  

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Sarcasm Chaos. Sarcasm.

I get that but I was parodying the likes of Humbercod.

Quoted from chaos33

I get that but I was parodying the likes of Humbercod.

I wouldn’t bother. He’s self-parodying.

Well yes that’s true

Quoted from Humbercod

Any War yet you gullible liberals 😂
Even Ukraine asking the West to stop trying to predict war dates! It’s almost as if the West powers want a war…. I wonder why 🤔  

I imagine this post will get a fair few quotes replies in the next few days when Russia invade.

The fact that Russia doesn’t just have troops on their own border with Ukraine and in the Crimea, they also have troops stationed in Moldova & Belarus on their borders with Ukraine too should tell you everything:

You know what, when the Nazi’s invaded Poland on 1st September 1939 they didn’t shock the entire world. The world knew it was coming and imminent. The British Government implemented their evacuation of citizens plan on 31st August 1939.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

I imagine this post will get a fair few quotes replies in the next few days when Russia invade.

The fact that Russia doesn’t just have troops on their own border with Ukraine and in the Crimea, they also have troops stationed in Moldova & Belarus on their borders with Ukraine too should tell you everything:

You know what, when the Nazi’s invaded Poland on 1st September 1939 they didn’t shock the entire world. The world knew it was coming and imminent. The British Government implemented their evacuation of citizens plan on 31st August 1939.

The troops in Moldova and Belarus are on a fully transparent  joint training exercise in a military training area that has been used historically. If you think this is a threat what about the billions pounds worth of western weapons heading to the Ukraine/Russian border, or maybe it’s Ukraine’s Nuclear plans that might sharp object your ears…… (don’t bother checking BBC)

It’s funny you mention evacuation as the Pro Russian eastern Ukraine’s are having to be evacuated in their 100s of thousands yes 100’s of thousands! whilst being attacked by the western powered Ukraine Army. (Don’t bother checking BBC)

Russian propaganda 😂

There’s a long history of manoeuvres being used to mask mobilisation for invasions. It’s why historically so many wars started in August. I’m not convinced by evidence that has been made public so far, but I wouldn’t trust Putin, he has a track record of invading neighbours. And everything so far is fitting the playbook.

I sometimes dip into RT and other Russian media and you can see how they have stepped up the preparation of the case. I know someone who shares similar views to yours Humbo, and can track what he says over time. I know that whenever he talks about Ukrainian/Georgian fascists it won’t be long before the action starts.

If Ukraine had kept their share of the nukes after the collapse of the SU, there’s no way Putin would be doing this. Russia and the US agreed to protect the territorial integrity of Ukraine in the agreement by which Ukraine gave up its nukes. It broke that agreement in 2014. Regardless of whether Crimean people wanted to be Russian,  that was an invasion. “Sudetenland” 1938.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

There’s a long history of manoeuvres being used to mask mobilisation for invasions. It’s why historically so many wars started in August. I’m not convinced by evidence that has been made public so far, but I wouldn’t trust Putin, he has a track record of invading neighbours. And everything so far is fitting the playbook.

I sometimes dip into RT and other Russian media and you can see how they have stepped up the preparation of the case. I know someone who shares similar views to yours Humbo, and can track what he says over time. I know that whenever he talks about Ukrainian/Georgian fascists it won’t be long before the action starts.

If Ukraine had kept their share of the nukes after the collapse of the SU, there’s no way Putin would be doing this. Russia and the US agreed to protect the territorial integrity of Ukraine in the agreement by which Ukraine gave up its nukes. It broke that agreement in 2014. Regardless of whether Crimean people wanted to be Russian,  that was an invasion. “Sudetenland” 1938.

Exactly.

Sudetenland 1938 = Crimea 2014

If the world ignores Russia (the Nazi’s) invading the rest of Ukraine (Czechoslovakia) then someone else will be next like Poland were in 1939. That someone will be Estonia, Lithuania & Latvia.

It’s funny how Humbo is quoting the “Russian evacuation” of Russia backed/funded/armed separatist areas of eastern Ukraine. Coincidentally the same tactic used by Hitler who accused Poland of perpetrating atrocities against German ethnic people ahead of the Nazis invading Poland.

Putin orders troops into Eastern Ukraine regions that he’s just recognised as independent. But yes, this is all the West.

I said it in 2014 to someone with very similar views to Humbo (on vaccines and this): if Putin wanted to keep NATO away from his borders, he's going about it in the wrong way. He's encouraged the West to send more troops to Eastern Europe, and those countries are clinging closer to NATO now. Even famously neutral Finland* and Sweden are considering joining.

* and Finland put in a big order for F35s a while back

Putin has raised the stakes to a much higher level of brinksmanship tonight.

Russian might be ok but he is very dangerous, unpredictable and does not accept international law.

Looking at the world in a simplistic way (historically) The Iron Curtain was built to keep people in, not to keep the West out.

So now the Wehrmacht has marched into the Sudetenland, sorry, the Russian army has marched into eastern Ukraine, the next move will be to declare a plebiscite in the occupied territories to decide on whether the people there want to join the Reich. The vote will be 97% in favour. They won’t make it 100% because that would be suspicious.

They’re probably also hoping to provoke the Ukrainians into shelling them. If not then there’ll be a repeat of the Mainila incident.

I’m furious about Russia invading Ukraine. And I know who Is to blame!!!! Can somebody tell me how to block Sky News & BBC News on my Sky Q boxes?

Quoted from GollyGTFC

I’m furious about Russia invading Ukraine. And I know who Is to blame!!!! Can somebody tell me how to block Sky News & BBC News on my Sky Q boxes?

.

Yes they always report the truth on wars… Kosovo, Yugoslavia,Iraq 😂

Years later when the truth comes out all is forgotten and programmed muppets just carry on watching and listening to good old Auntie.

Quoted from Humbercod

.

Yes they always report the truth on wars… Kosovo, Yugoslavia,Libya,Iraq 😂

Years later when the truth comes out all is forgotten and programmed muppets just carry on watching and listening to good old Auntie.

Quoted from Humbercod

.

Yes they always report the truth on wars… Kosovo, Yugoslavia,Iraq 😂

Years later when the truth comes out all is forgotten and programmed muppets just carry on watching and listening to good old Auntie.

Give an example from the past then of the BBC reporting lies.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Give an example from the past then of the BBC reporting lies.

Anything that RT says is a lie is a lie for the ‘independent modded’ folk like Humbo.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Give an example from the past then of the BBC reporting lies.

FFS where to start I’ve not got the time to be honest but maybe start with Syria and their fake gas reports, remember what you said to me… Google it 😉

I’m absolutely amazed people still trust the BBC 🤪

Quoted from Humbercod

FFS where to start I’ve not got the time to be honest but maybe start with Syria and their fake gas reports, remember what you said to me… Google it 😉

I’m absolutely amazed people still trust the BBC 🤪

If they’re that bad I would imagine you would have a long list you could rattle off in a few seconds.

I’ve tried googling “what is Humbercod on about?” But it didn’t give me any relevant results.

So again, give me your evidence about the BBC.

On a totally different subject, do you believe that Nazi Germany perpetrated the Holocaust and that it resulted in the murder of over 6 millions mainly Jewish people?

Quoted from Humbercod

FFS where to start I’ve not got the time to be honest but maybe start with Syria and their fake gas reports, remember what you said to me… Google it 😉

I’m absolutely amazed people still trust the BBC 🤪

And Syria fake gas reports…

That would be the use of chemical weapons by Syria government forces corroborated by national governments, the United Nations (UN), the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) and Human Rights Watch (HRW).

Or are all those lot as dodgy as the BBC?

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Anything that RT says is a lie is a lie for the ‘independent modded’ folk like Humbo.

Great input Kingston!

So RT bad….BBC government propaganda machine a bastion of truth … ok looney tunes!

Nothing wrong with supporting the now liberated people of Donetsk just like my support for the Israelis.
You really need to try and understand the history of our warmongering leaders, do you really think they give a excrement about the people of Ukraine? Still on a positive note US Arms manufacturers are bucking the downward trend on the stock exchange, big Pharma have had such a good run that it’s now time for the Arms Industry to have their fill.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

If they’re that bad I would imagine you would have a long list you could rattle off in a few seconds.

I’ve tried googling “what is Humbercod on about?” But it didn’t give me any relevant results.

So again, give me your evidence about the BBC.

On a totally different subject, do you believe that Nazi Germany perpetrated the Holocaust and that it resulted in the murder of over 6 millions mainly Jewish people?

buffoon!

Quoted from GollyGTFC

And Syria fake gas reports…

That would be the use of chemical weapons by Syria government forces corroborated by national governments, the United Nations (UN), the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) and Human Rights Watch (HRW).

Or are all those lot as dodgy as the BBC?

BBC on record apologising for the fake reports of Assad gassing women and children you clown … google it

Quoted from Humbercod

BBC on record apologising for the fake reports of Assad gassing women and children you clown … google it

It was a BBC Radio documentary about an incident 3 years earlier & not part of its news output.

Quoted from Humbercod

buffoon!

Just proves you've lost the debate when you resort to name calling.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

It was a BBC Radio documentary about an incident 3 years earlier & not part of its news output.

The difference between the BBC and RT news is that most  people watching RT know full well that it’s propaganda, so may be cynical and watch with an open mind. Whereas most people still believe and trust the anything but neutral BBC. They are and always have been a propaganda machine with its own agenda but idiots still think it’s giving them a balanced and credible world view, which with a world reach of half a billion people is bloody scary.

Putin asks for Russian government permission to use force outside of Russia. But yes, this is all the BBC and the West.

Quoted from Humbercod

The difference between the BBC and RT news is that most  people watching RT know full well that it’s propaganda, so may be cynical and watch with an open mind. Whereas most people still believe and trust the anything but neutral BBC. They are and always have been a propaganda machine with its own agenda but idiots still think it’s giving them a balanced and credible world view, which with a world reach of half a billion people is bloody scary.

Hiya Tony!

Thought you were a Liverpool fan not Town 😆

Quoted from Humbercod

Great input Kingston!

So RT bad….BBC government propaganda machine a bastion of truth … ok looney tunes!

Nothing wrong with supporting the now liberated people of Donetsk just like my support for the Israelis.
You really need to try and understand the history of our warmongering leaders, do you really think they give a excrement about the people of Ukraine? Still on a positive note US Arms manufacturers are bucking the downward trend on the stock exchange, big Pharma have had such a good run that it’s now time for the Arms Industry to have their fill.

Complete non sequitur.

Quoted from Humbercod

The difference between the BBC and RT news is that most  people watching RT know full well that it’s propaganda, so may be cynical and watch with an open mind.

Funny that. I’ve heard that argument before from an anti-vax, Putinist before. All part of the stick response.

Given that you accept RT is propaganda, care to point out some lies it has told?

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Just proves you've lost the debate when you resort to name calling.

do you believe that Nazi Germany perpetrated the Holocaust and that it resulted in the murder of over 6 millions mainly Jewish people?

You did ask me this 🖕🏻Seriously!

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Hiya Tony!

Thought you were a Liverpool fan not Town 😆

intercourse off Liverpool

Quoted from Humbercod

do you believe that Nazi Germany perpetrated the Holocaust and that it resulted in the murder of over 6 millions mainly Jewish people?

You did ask me this 🖕🏻Seriously!

Well, I've seen a BBC documentary about it...

Quoted from LH

Putin asks for Russian government permission to use force outside of Russia. But yes, this is all the BBC and the West.

Brainwashed! don’t you think If this was the other way around the US would be on offensive. Putin has every right to defend his country. If you didn’t know NATO agreed to expand no further than Germany but they have encroached  further east ever since. No wonder he’s drunk off.

End of the day it’s none of our business just like the Israel and the Falklands were none of Russia’s. We should be keeping our noses out, you might be happy with UK troops being deployed in neighbouring countries but I’m certainly not. You keep poking the bear and soon it will attack back and that’s when we start seeing the body bags again. I can’t believe you so called liberals are so blind, once again this is not about saving the people of Ukraine.

Quoted from Humbercod

Brainwashed! don’t you think If this was the other way around the US would be on offensive. Putin has every right to defend his country. If you didn’t know NATO agreed to expand no further than Germany but they have encroached  further east ever since. No wonder he’s drunk off.

End of the day it’s none of our business just like the Israel and the Falklands were none of Russia’s. We should be keeping our noses out, you might be happy with UK troops being deployed in neighbouring countries but I’m certainly not. You keep poking the bear and soon it will attack back and that’s when we start seeing the body bags again. I can’t believe you so called liberals are so blind, once again this is not about saving the people of Ukraine.

Your little argument falls apart over the simple fact that Putin isn’t bothered by NATO in the slightest and doesn’t feel threatened by them at all.

What he is bothered about is having neighbouring counties (especially Slavic ones) that are democratic and where the citizens have freedoms and wealth that Russian citizens don’t have.

He fears democracy infecting Russia and what that means for him and the wealth he has stolen from the Russian people. Which is wxactlt why Alexei Navalny is in prison. Or do you believe he is legitimately imprisoned?

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Your little argument falls apart over the simple fact that Putin isn’t bothered by NATO in the slightest and doesn’t feel threatened by them at all.

What he is bothered about is having neighbouring counties (especially Slavic ones) that are democratic and where the citizens have freedoms and wealth that Russian citizens don’t have.

He fears democracy infecting Russia and what that means for him and the wealth he has stolen from the Russian people. Which is wxactlt why Alexei Navalny is in prison. Or do you believe he is legitimately imprisoned?

Do you still think Russia is a communist country?
Of course he fears NATO one of his core demands is that Ukraine never joins NATO!
As for Russian politics I don’t give a excrement most country’s have corrupt governments some worse than others, again none of our business we should be focused on our own bunch of Charlatans.

Quoted from Humbercod

Do you still think Russia is a communist country?
Of course he fears NATO one of his core demands is that Ukraine never joins NATO!
As for Russian politics I don’t give a excrement most country’s have corrupt governments some worse than others, again none of our business we should be focused on our own bunch of Charlatans.

You have no idea what you’re talking about.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

You have no idea what you’re talking about.

Says you blind to the fact the NATO expansion has fuelled this.

“NATO has put its front-line forces on our borders,” Putin complained, bemoaning the alliance’s eastward expansion. Citing what he claimed were Western promises not to move east of Germany, he said, with bitter sarcasm: “We have the right to ask: Against whom is this expansion intended?”

This was 15 years ago the NATI are not innocent bystanders.

Quoted from Humbercod

Says you blind to the fact the NATO expansion has fuelled this.

“NATO has put its front-line forces on our borders,” Putin complained, bemoaning the alliance’s eastward expansion. Citing what he claimed were Western promises not to move east of Germany, he said, with bitter sarcasm: “We have the right to ask: Against whom is this expansion intended?”

This was 15 years ago the NATI are not innocent bystanders.

I say it again, you know absolutely nothing about what you are commenting on. This has zero to do with NATO.

Clearly Putin can’t come out & say the real reason why he’s determined to wipe Ukraine from the map, so he’s pretending it’s all because of NATO.

You really need to start questioning what you listen to. You drone on about the BBC being dishonest, yet you naively take Vladimir Putin, an actually authoritarian leader/dictator, at his word. Priceless.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

I say it again, you know absolutely nothing about what you are commenting on. This has zero to do with NATO.

Clearly Putin can’t come out & say the real reason why he’s determined to wipe Ukraine from the map, so he’s pretending it’s all because of NATO.

You really need to start questioning what you listen to. You drone on about the BBC being dishonest, yet you naively take Vladimir Putin, an actually authoritarian leader/dictator, at his word. Priceless.

You astound me! Pretty much all the Western media that you seem to trust so much have reported that Putin’s main goal is to secure a guarantee from Biden and NATO that they will never admit Ukraine and other former Soviet states as members. What his motives are after this is hearsay.
As for wanting to wipe Ukraine out well that’s just sixth form nonsense. We are ignorant in the western world that area means a lot to Russia just from a historical position with Kiev once being the Capital not so long ago, we need to keep the hell out.

Putting this to one side a serious question, are you happy for the UK to be getting involved in another conflict which this time could quite possibly lead to a large scale war?

Quoted from Humbercod

You astound me! Pretty much all the Western media that you seem to trust so much have reported that Putin’s main goal is to secure a guarantee from Biden and NATO that they will never admit Ukraine and other former Soviet states as members. What his motives are after this is hearsay.
As for wanting to wipe Ukraine out well that’s just sixth form nonsense. We are ignorant in the western world that area means a lot to Russia just from a historical position with Kiev once being the Capital not so long ago, we need to keep the hell out.

Putting this to one side a serious question, are you happy for the UK to be getting involved in another conflict which this time could quite possibly lead to a large scale war?

Humbercod, I’ll ask you this, are you happy to stand aside whilst innocent people are killed? It would appear you are because the innocent people involved happen to live outside the lines on a map you see as being important.

You criticise others for spouting sixth form nonsense but your anti western, pseudo intellectual, criticism is no better. Standing so vehemently in support of an anti democratic leader puts you in a weak place imho. To make some loose comparison between the elected ‘cretins’ here (thank your fellow voters for this) and Putin is just mind-boggling.

Quoted from Humbercod

You astound me! Pretty much all the Western media that you seem to trust so much have reported that Putin’s main goal is to secure a guarantee from Biden and NATO that they will never admit Ukraine and other former Soviet states as members. What his motives are after this is hearsay.
As for wanting to wipe Ukraine out well that’s just sixth form nonsense. We are ignorant in the western world that area means a lot to Russia just from a historical position with Kiev once being the Capital not so long ago, we need to keep the hell out.

Putting this to one side a serious question, are you happy for the UK to be getting involved in another conflict which this time could quite possibly lead to a large scale war?

Seriously, Putin has been quoted as saying Ukraine isn’t a legitimate country since he was deputy mayor of St Petersburg back in the early to mid 90s and plenty of times since.

And to make it even easier for you he came out and said it last night it that bizarre, rambling speech he made on Russian TV.

Putin is using the NATO argument because he knows the false demands he’s making (Ukraine never joining NATO to NATO reducing to pre-1997 members) will never ever be agreed to by the west/NATO.

It’s just Putin going through the motions and pretending he’s tried everything to avoid having to invade Ukraine.

And if you missed it, today Putin said that he recognises independent Donetsk and Luhansk based not on the land controlled by Russian sponsored/funded/backed/installed separatists, but on the whole regions as internationally recognised (i.e. huge amounts of Ukrainian controlled territory).

That will be the next step. Russia will invade the rest of Donetsk and Luhansk. And when Ukraine defends itself Putin will use that “aggression” as excuse for invading the entire Ukraine.

We and our allies have to do whatever it takes to support Ukraine and make Russia pay for what it has already done and is about to do. Alexei Navalny made a list of the top 35 oligarchs who hold Putin’s stolen wealth for him with Chelsea owner Roman Abramovic unsurprisingly in at number 1. Target those individuals and influential Russian companies such as Gazprom with strict sanctions and asset freezes.

We need to bleed Russia dry and make them an international pariah. And kick them out of international sport.

Putin’s disdain for Ukraine is nothing new. If people think this is a NATO issue then they’re missing the point…

I think the fact we think imposing sanctions on Russia will hurt them is laughable though….

Quoted from aldi_01

Putin’s disdain for Ukraine is nothing new. If people think this is a NATO issue then they’re missing the point…

I think the fact we think imposing sanctions on Russia will hurt them is laughable though….

Totally agree on the first part. Completely disagree with the second part.

If sanctions can’t harm Russia, why has Putin made Bill Browder his number 1 international target?

It’s because Putin fears what Bill Browder is campaigning for.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Give an example from the past then of the BBC reporting lies.

"The Humber Bridge is in Northern Lincolnshire" Look North. Northern Lincolnshire ends at approximately Caistor

Quoted from DB

"The Humber Bridge is in Northern Lincolnshire" Look North. Northern Lincolnshire ends at approximately Caistor

Only the official county, the Humber bridge is in The council borough of North Lincolnshire though, more a slip of the tongue than fully inaccurate surely?

Quoted from cardiffmariner

Humbercod, I’ll ask you this, are you happy to stand aside whilst innocent people are killed? It would appear you are because the innocent people involved happen to live outside the lines on a map you see as being important.

Rhetorical question Cardiff, are you happy with the Ukraine Army opening up artillery fire on innocent people in the Donetsk & Luhansk  region? People dehumanised in the West as Russian separatists that have spent many years in fear going to bed at night in makeshift bunkers!

But to answer you’re question then I’m no more happy about a possible invasion in the future killing innocent people, then I am today as the Rohingya and Uyghur people are getting slaughtered, but then the West is not really interested in a bit if genocide with no economic interest at play is it?

Quoted Text

You criticise others for spouting sixth form nonsense but your anti western, pseudo intellectual, criticism is no better. Standing so vehemently in support of an anti democratic leader puts you in a weak place imho. To make some loose comparison between the elected ‘cretins’ here (thank your fellow voters for this) and Putin is just mind-boggling.

I find it quite offensive to call me anti western, opposing war does not put me on the side of Putin. How many times now have we seen these kind of crisis play out, an underdog faces a threat from an authoritarian regime, so the Mighty US with their UK lapdog must come to the rescue with a military response and I’m sure you will know that not many if any end very well.

Try looking at it from a Russian perspective like I’ve already mentioned they have seen prior to the conflict, and continue to see billions of dollars worth of military equipment being shipped into neighbouring countries whom they have historical conflict with all in the name of defence, well its no surprise then when they see and call this out as escalation.

I entirely agree with you that there are many unpalatable inconsistencies with the conflicts the West choose to involve themselves in. But let’s stay focused on the here and now.

If we accept your Russian centric view of NATO expansion, I find it surprising that you see this as reasonable justification for one country to invade another and put lives of innocent civilians at risk. Diplomacy instead?

Don’t be offended. Perhaps a deliberately provocative jibe but read through your posts so far and there is certainly more than a tinge of ‘the big bad West’. Personally, for all its faults, I’d take the liberal democracy of the West over the controlling authoritarianism of parts of the East. But that’s another thread!

Quoted from cardiffmariner

I entirely agree with you that there are many unpalatable inconsistencies with the conflicts the West choose to involve themselves in. But let’s stay focused on the here and now.

If we accept your Russian centric view of NATO expansion, I find it surprising that you see this as reasonable justification for one country to invade another and put lives of innocent civilians at risk. Diplomacy instead?

Don’t be offended. Perhaps a deliberately provocative jibe but read through your posts so far and there is certainly more than a tinge of ‘the big bad West’. Personally, for all its faults, I’d take the liberal democracy of the West over the controlling authoritarianism of parts of the East. But that’s another thread!

No problem whatsoever there is no law to say that I cannot be offended besides I believe that was not your intention.

To be fair Cardiff I had never said that Russia have any legitimate justification for an invasion. Let’s remember at this present time they have only sent in peacekeeping troops into a rebel held area. I’d just show a bit of caution before comparing the hypocritical sanctimonious liberal democratic west who also sent in troops to rebel held parts of Libya.

Quoted from Humbercod

No problem whatsoever there is no law to say that I cannot be offended besides I believe that was not your intention.

To be fair Cardiff I had never said that Russia have any legitimate justification for an invasion. Let’s remember at this present time they have only sent in peacekeeping troops into a rebel held area. I’d just show a bit of caution before comparing the hypocritical sanctimonious liberal democratic west who also sent in troops to rebel held parts of Libya.

Here you go again. You call BBC & Sky News liars and you believe the words of Vladimir Putin. It’s mind boggling. We’re talking about a man who ordered the murder of a British citizen on British soil (Alexander Litvinenko) and ordered the Novochok attack on Salisbury.

I see that Liz Truss has suggested that English clubs should boycott the Champions League Final in St Petersburg, should they reach it.

Fine.

However, it’s a bit of an odd statement considering some of the Conservative Party’s most philanthropic donors are Russian, including Lubov Chernukhin - the wife of a former Putin minister. Should the Tories not consider returning these donations?

Do they actually think before they speak?

Mind you, considering Truss didn’t do her homework before meeting Sergey Lavrov last week, it shouldn’t have come as a surprise…



Even I knew Rostov was Russian and had been for over 400 years. As Lavrov said, meeting with Truss was “like a mute talking to a deaf person”.

The foodbank Thatcher.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Funny that. I’ve heard that argument before from an anti-vax, Putinist before. All part of the stick response.

Given that you accept RT is propaganda, care to point out some lies it has told?

You still haven’t answered this Humbo.

Putin’s speech, repeating his previous essay points, is particularly chilling. He’s clearly setting out his ‘justification’ for seizing the whole of Ukraine.

First the Sudetenland then the rest of Czechoslovakia. Who’s next? The Baltic states? Finland? None of those countries had a history as independent states before separating off from the Russian Empire/Soviet Union (except Lithuania).

Once he’s gobbled those up, he won’t be satisfied. Sooner or later he’ll be stepping on our vital interests. We’ve seen it all before.

The guy has to be stopped.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Here you go again. You call BBC & Sky News liars and you believe the words of Vladimir Putin. It’s mind boggling. We’re talking about a man who ordered the murder of a British citizen on British soil (Alexander Litvinenko) and ordered the Novochok attack on Salisbury.

If I’d listened to the BBC and Sly News I would be triple vaccinated by now, just saying.

If Putin did in fact order the assassination of scumbag double agents (you don’t know) then I applaud him, anybody that spy’s and sells secrets to a potential enemy deserves to be made an example off.
Where I do get enraged is the lack of government action! We had a foreign attack on home soil harming innocent members of the public and nobody has been held to account, absolutely embarrassing for our Country, Mi5 would of known about this within the first hour of the attack the Country should of been locked down airports the lot until the perpetrators were caught.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

You still haven’t answered this Humbo.

To be honest I can’t recall anything recently that I’ve thought oh that’s bullshit on there, but logic tells me you know with it being state run that the news articles are going to be a tad biased.
Although saying that to be fair I did watch a report on another drug scandal during the Olympics were the channel was very critical of the Russian federation for sport.

Our national broadcaster is still looked upon as an institution you can trust, I watched the BBC coverage of the war on terror not once did we see any reports based on critical thinking, not at all it was all regurgitated government propaganda Saddam has WMD and that was that and I cheered as our brave troops went in. Fortunately these days we have the internet any many of us have moved on from our own propaganda.

What makes me Laugh is all you lefty liberals who love to berate our useless government, they tell me how they can’t be trusted, bunch of charlatans only interested in themselves and their rich mates and yet you all seem to back every major decision Covid, Green Agenda, and now Russia they must be doing something right then. Looks like RT news will be getting banned next anyway good old censorship but I’m sure you will back the government on this.

Quoted from Knut Anders Fosters Voles

I see that Liz Truss has suggested that English clubs should boycott the Champions League Final in St Petersburg, should they reach it.

Fine.

However, it’s a bit of an odd statement considering some of the Conservative Party’s most philanthropic donors are Russian, including Lubov Chernukhin - the wife of a former Putin minister. Should the Tories not consider returning these donations?

Do they actually think before they speak?

Mind you, considering Truss didn’t do her homework before meeting Sergey Lavrov last week, it shouldn’t have come as a surprise…

Tweet 1491771623497777159 will appear here...

Even I knew Rostov was Russian and had been for over 400 years. As Lavrov said, meeting with Truss was “like a mute talking to a deaf person”.

I seem to remember Marcus Rashford was told to keep out of politics when he started his campaign to end child food poverty and improve child literacy.

But all of a sudden footballers are expected to offer a stronger reaction to Russian aggression than our government has so far.

Quoted from Humbercod

If I’d listened to the BBC and Sly News I would be triple vaccinated by now, just saying.

Breaking: “Shock” as Humbercod outs himself as Anti-Vax nutter!

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Breaking: “Shock” as Humbercod outs himself as Anti-Vax nutter!

I was thinking 6th former but maybe another Karen from the public sector🤔

At least Trump is on the money! only a few more years now and the free world will once again have a strong leader. No surprise what is happening in the world with a demented incoherent weak old president, because when the US is weak the world becomes a lot more unstable.

Quoted from Humbercod

At least Trump is on the money! only a few more years now and the free world will once again have a strong leader. No surprise what is happening in the world with a demented incoherent weak old president, because when the US is weak the world becomes a lot more unstable.

Oh my days! Trump is ‘on the money’?! What does that mean? That he’s somehow coherent, sane, articulate..?!
Can you give us some examples of things he’s done or said that lead you to believe he’s ‘on the money’…?

This is gonna be good….

Quoted from Humbercod

To be honest I can’t recall anything recently that I’ve thought oh that’s bullshit on there, but logic tells me you know with it being state run that the news articles are going to be a tad biased.
Although saying that to be fair I did watch a report on another drug scandal during the Olympics were the channel was very critical of the Russian federation for sport.

Our national broadcaster is still looked upon as an institution you can trust, I watched the BBC coverage of the war on terror not once did we see any reports based on critical thinking, not at all it was all regurgitated government propaganda Saddam has WMD and that was that and I cheered as our brave troops went in. Fortunately these days we have the internet any many of us have moved on from our own propaganda.

What makes me Laugh is all you lefty liberals who love to berate our useless government, they tell me how they can’t be trusted, bunch of charlatans only interested in themselves and their rich mates and yet you all seem to back every major decision Covid, Green Agenda, and now Russia they must be doing something right then. Looks like RT news will be getting banned next anyway good old censorship but I’m sure you will back the government on this.

Another example of whataboutism. Evading the subject. What’s clear is you’re prepared to criticise one state broadcaster, but not another.

And it’s perfectly consistent to criticise that fat cûnt and his cronies, while criticising the waxy-faced one in the Kremlin. Difficult for a conspiracy nut like you to understand I know. But perfectly logical to the sane.

So today we wake up to a full scale Russian invasion of Ukraine. The west need to make Russia a pariah state and inflict Iran or North Korea style sanctions on them and those who trade with them.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

So today we wake up to a full scale Russian invasion of Ukraine. The west need to make Russia a pariah state and inflict Iran or North Korea style sanctions on them and those who trade with them.

I agree with you, but all we've seen are politicians being good on rhetoric and poor on decisions. The Russians took Crimea and the world watched and now we have a repeat situation.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

So today we wake up to a full scale Russian invasion of Ukraine. The west need to make Russia a pariah state and inflict Iran or North Korea style sanctions on them and those who trade with them.

Agree but the west will suffer when he turns the pipes off.

Quoted from DB

I agree with you, but all we've seen are politicians being good on rhetoric and poor on decisions. The Russians took Crimea and the world watched and now we have a repeat situation.

Crimea being pro Russian was a lot different DB. But ye the world will just watch again unless we want WW3.

It's a tough one with Russia because we are talking about a country where we get a large portion of our energy from. They also have support from China and have equipment on par with the US, ourselves and other NATO members.

This isn't like Iraq, Syria etc where we know we have more firepower than them. There is then the serious nuclear threat Russia (and the US) pose.

I don't condone what we've woken up to this morning by any stretch but Russia is an enemy that can fight back very effectively.

Quoted from jamesgtfc

It's a tough one with Russia because we are talking about a country where we get a large portion of our energy from. They also have support from China and have equipment on par with the US, ourselves and other NATO members.

This isn't like Iraq, Syria etc where we know we have more firepower than them. There is then the serious nuclear threat Russia (and the US) pose.

I don't condone what we've woken up to this morning by any stretch but Russia is an enemy that can fight back very effectively.

Think I saw the other day that only 3% of our gas comes from Russia (still not a small amount) but mainland Europe relies on it a lot more, just saying.

Quoted from promotion plaice

Think I saw the other day that only 3% of our gas comes from Russia (still not a small amount) but mainland Europe relies on it a lot more, just saying.

Still enough to increase our prices even more. My supplier went bust and I moved over to another supplier. Looked at setting up a fixed deal the other week and it was coming out 3x the price I currently pay!

filthy illegitimate Putin

need to get support across to Ukraine ASAP

Modern day lebensraum. Anyone who thinks this is because of NATO and not just that Putin has had a massive chip on his shoulder about the break up of the Soviet Union for 30 years is misguided.

Only thing we'll be supplying (other than kind words) is munitions. Oh, and support for refugees who will no doubt be making their way into Poland and the other Eastern European EU countries. Lots of reinforcements heading into the Baltic states, I suspect. It will be interesting to see how Orban responds.

If this conflict turns into a guerilla war, which is quite possible, I suspect it will be a very bad time to be a Russian tank driver because those anti-tank missiles are pretty compact. Not sure if they'll supply the stinger-type anti-aircraft missiles, however.

Of course, both sides have similar technology, but the Russians will have a lot more of it than the Ukrainians.

A shitshow in the making. I wonder if Putin is having a late mid-life crisis, or something?

I was at work last night watching this unfold. You could see the columns of traffic built up by the invading forces on google maps and the airspace clearing on flightradar24 in the couple of hours before. Even so it’s not a great morning to wake up as someone on the Armed Forces reserve list  >:(

No one should underestimate how serious this is. For those of us in the UK, this may feel a long way from our shores, but that is not the case.

Kyiv will fall; Ukraine will fall. This much is certain, and there is little the west can do about that. What happens from there is up to Putin.

There is already deep anxiety in Poland and the Baltics; all of which, crucially, are NATO members. By its very definition, should Russia attack any of those nations, it is duty bound to respond with force.

If NATO goes in, the US goes in, and then (as the thread title suggests), we quite literally have World War 3. And that, as Putin has already inferred, will lead up a spectacular abuse of nuclear force from all sides.

It all comes down to what Putin decides, or has already decided to do. He is the puppet master, with the world in his hands today. We may already be on an unavoidable collision course with disaster.

Once again in this brutally shìt decade we find ourselves living in historic times. Regrettably, I really don’t think I’m overplaying it.

Quoted from Poojah

No one should underestimate how serious this is. For those of us in the UK, this may feel a long way from our shores, but that is not the case.

Kyiv will fall; Ukraine will fall. This much is certain, and there is little the west can do about that. What happens from there is up to Putin.

There is already deep anxiety in Poland and the Baltics; all of which, crucially, are NATO members. By its very definition, should Russia attack any of those nations, it is duty bound to respond with force.

If NATO goes in, the US goes in, and then (as the thread title suggests), we quite literally have World War 3. And that, as Putin has already inferred, will lead up a spectacular abuse of nuclear force from all sides.

It all comes down to what Putin decides, or has already decided to do. He is the puppet master, with the world in his hands today. We may already be on an unavoidable collision course with disaster.

Once again in this brutally shìt decade we find ourselves living in historic times. Regrettably, I really don’t think I’m overplaying it.

Ukraine are begging for help and they've wanted to become a member of NATO for some time. The next steps have frightening consequences given the nuclear power Russia and others have. If we provide assistance to Ukrraine then there is a distinct possibility of Russia sending something our way.

Very worrying times for sure.

Why would Putin nuke London when half of it is owned by his mates and the City launders most of the dirty money coming out of Eastern Europe?

If you were going to nuke Britain you’d nuke Scotland for the chain reactions caused by our nukes.

Quoted from ska face

Why would Putin nuke London when half of it is owned by his mates and the City launders most of the dirty money coming out of Eastern Europe?

What is logical about anything he is saying or doing right now? The world has to work on the basis that he is capable of anything.

Please allow me this small attempt to reassure myself that my child is not heading for nuclear apocalypse. That said, with climate breakdown pretty much nailed on, we’re all fúcked as it is  

Quoted from ska face

Please allow me this small attempt to reassure myself that my child is not heading for nuclear apocalypse. That said, with climate breakdown pretty much nailed on, we’re all fúcked as it is  

I am pretty certain my children will not be thanking me for bringing them into this fúcked up world. Not that I appreciated at the time, but the late 80s and 90s were a great time to grow up (the odd IRA nail bomb aside).

Quoted from ska face

Why would Putin nuke London when half of it is owned by his mates and the City launders most of the dirty money coming out of Eastern Europe?

He's threatened an immediate response against anyone who meets his definition of interfering. If we send troops over there, I can't see him leaving us alone.

I'll give it a week before everyone is blaming Fenty.

Bûgger gas prices. We need to inflict as much punishment on Russia as possible.

I am honestly pretty terrified by this. In my opinion NATO and the Western superpowers need to stand up now with force. Otherwise this will not stop and continue to progress until it is a full blown world war with Nuclear weapons.

That said it is easy for me to say this. To do so creates serious threats to escalation in the here and now and risks our troops lives, and our security amongst many other threats. It is not a simple situation at all and there are no simple or risk free solutions.

The fact that Putin is willing to risk so many lives for his own ends terrifies and saddens me.

Quoted from Caesar

I am honestly pretty terrified by this. In my opinion NATO and the Western superpowers need to stand up now with force. Otherwise this will not stop and continue to progress until it is a full blown world war with Nuclear weapons.

That said it is easy for me to say this. To do so creates serious threats to escalation in the here and now and risks our troops lives, and our security amongst many other threats. It is not a simple situation at all and there are no simple or risk free solutions.

The fact that Putin is willing to risk so many lives for his own ends terrifies and saddens me.

The west standing up with force now is a very effective way of accelerating an escalation to full blown war with nuclear weapons. I don’t think it’s melodramatic to suggest that the first NATO or US shell fired in the direction of Russian forces (or vice versa) triggers a war that few in the developed world will survive.

It’s that precarious.

All pretence that this was about NATO or protecting the people of eastern Ukraine have been swept away. Once Putin made his speech about Ukraine being an integral part of Russia the scales dropped.

Quoted from Poojah

The west standing up with force now is a very effective way of accelerating an escalation to full blown war with nuclear weapons. I don’t think it’s melodramatic to suggest that the first NATO or US shell fired in the direction of Russian forces (or vice versa) triggers a war that few in the developed world will survive.

It’s that precarious.

But then the west doing nothing is an open invitation to more aggression. I agree it would lead to massive escalation in my post. And thats why it is easy for me to say on a forum for Grimsby Town fans but very different in real life.

My thinking is mainly driven by the fact that the cost of doing nothing is still a cost and that if he can invade some states with impunity, what stops him again and again.

My fear is either way that we are on the road to a third World War. Either act now early with costs associated with that or don't and deal with increasing costs in the future.

But as I say is easier for me to type but beyond scary and dangerous in reality particularly when as I think you point out, one policy leads to very likely escalation and conflict that could effectively destroy the world vs a policy that might not lead to one at all as my doomladen predictions could be very wide of the mark.

Anyone seen sleepy Joe?

Quoted from Caesar

But then the west doing nothing is an open invitation to more aggression. I agree it would lead to massive escalation in my post. And thats why it is easy for me to say on a forum for Grimsby Town fans but very different in real life.

My thinking is mainly driven by the fact that the cost of doing nothing is still a cost and that if he can invade some states with impunity, what stops him again and again.

My fear is either way that we are on the road to a third World War. Either act now early with costs associated with that or don't and deal with increasing costs in the future.

But as I say is easier for me to type but beyond scary and dangerous in reality particularly when as I think you point out, one policy leads to very likely escalation and conflict that could effectively destroy the world vs a policy that might not lead to one at all as my doomladen predictions could be very wide of the mark.

I think, in the context of nuclear armageddon, rising costs are small beer.

I dearly hope not but we may well be on the road to WW3; at the minute that sits in Putin’s court. A lot will depend on how far he’s prepared to go into Eastern Europe, but even if he intends to stop at Ukraine, the inevitable coming together of Russian and NATO troops on the Estonian and Latvian borders presents a potentially very volatile situation.

Quoted from Caesar

But then the west doing nothing is an open invitation to more aggression. I agree it would lead to massive escalation in my post. And thats why it is easy for me to say on a forum for Grimsby Town fans but very different in real life.

My thinking is mainly driven by the fact that the cost of doing nothing is still a cost and that if he can invade some states with impunity, what stops him again and again.

My fear is either way that we are on the road to a third World War. Either act now early with costs associated with that or don't and deal with increasing costs in the future.

But as I say is easier for me to type but beyond scary and dangerous in reality particularly when as I think you point out, one policy leads to very likely escalation and conflict that could effectively destroy the world vs a policy that might not lead to one at all as my doomladen predictions could be very wide of the mark.

Surely WW3 is unlikely.

It will either be nuclear armageddon or a proxy war between East and West in some poor b*stards back yard (Ukraine, Lithuania, BiH).

Quoted from Poojah

I think, in the context of nuclear armageddon, rising costs are small beer.

I dearly hope not but we may well be on the road to WW3; at the minute that sits in Putin’s court. A lot will depend on how far he’s prepared to go into Eastern Europe, but even if he intends to stop at Ukraine, the inevitable coming together of Russian and NATO troops on the Estonian and Latvian borders presents a potentially very volatile situation.

But there is also a potential that doing something now prevents apocalypse later as pressing any button is a huge step. Nuclear deterrents one would hope would be total last resort. May not happen now if troops are sent to support Ukraine as would be a high cost low benefit step. The likely all encompassing war could be catastrophic still im different ways. But if the stakes have been raised because we do nothing now......


My point is it is not like it is dangerous to act now is a sufficient argument. Doing nothing could be just as costly or moreso. Truthfully it is scarily high stakes and nobody knows for sure what is the best course of action.

Quoted from Knut Anders Fosters Voles

Surely WW3 is unlikely.

It will either be nuclear armageddon or a proxy war between East and West in some poor b*stards back yard (Ukraine, Lithuania, BiH).

Nukes I hope would only ever be used as weapons of last resort.

Agree proxy war seems most likely but so easy for that to escalate as an aggressive Russia tests Western resolve.

Three options really:

Best case scenario: new cold war with horrific economic implications and increased numbers of armed forces personnel and spending.

Mid: WWIII with use of conventional weapons resulting in huge loss of life, horrific economic implications.

Worst case: nuclear war. intercourse the economy in that instance.


If I wasn’t already listed and I was under forty, male and from an industry with a lot of older workers/retired workers who could come back I would definitely be getting my running shoes on for the next few weeks.

Quoted from LH

If I wasn’t already listed and I was under forty, male and from an industry with a lot of older workers/retired workers who could come back I would definitely be getting my running shoes on for the next few weeks.

This is not what I wanted to see in Ukraine. It didn’t have to end this way. Even days ago an agreement that Ukraine would never join NATO and the full implementation of the Minsk Agreement would have ended the crisis.

The FT’s (berated) call for this was right. Pumping Ukraine full of NATO weapons, mercenaries and propaganda was a grave mistake (and Russia inherits a billion dollars worth of weaponry). What was intended as a demonstration of NATO strength has ended with proof of its weakness.

The US empire is fading. The sun has risen in the east. Britain should fulfil its destiny as an independent country, free from the EU, and free from the USA.

George Galloway.

Quoted from Poojah

The west standing up with force now is a very effective way of accelerating an escalation to full blown war with nuclear weapons. I don’t think it’s melodramatic to suggest that the first NATO or US shell fired in the direction of Russian forces (or vice versa) triggers a war that few in the developed world will survive.

It’s that precarious.

But expansionist dictators can only be stopped by force. NATO has to respond now mobilising to reinforce all of NATO eastern Europe. It will cost us all a load of our taxes and the last thing we need after COVID but there is no choice. We need to force Russia into a Cold War they can't win. Russia spends 5% of GDP on military - more than any NATO country but their economy is tiny compared to the combined NATO economy. NATO can outspend them easily with some economic pain but with sanctions and the cost of occupation of Ukraine Russia can't win a Cold War. When the wall came down the Soviet `bloc was shown to be hollowed out economically and militarily and actually was posing much less of a conventional military threat than the west feared. The only strategy I can see is to hollow out Russia and hope that Putin is removed by his own people.

Quoted from Knut Anders Fosters Voles

Surely WW3 is unlikely.

It will either be nuclear armageddon or a proxy war between East and West in some poor b*stards back yard (Ukraine, Lithuania, BiH).

This is my thinking, there’s too much to lose on both sides for all our nuclear war, but flipping up a few small countries will be more than acceptable. That’s not my view in the slightest mind, but globally that’s what it will be seen as…

Quoted from Limerick Mariner

But expansionist dictators can only be stopped by force. NATO has to respond now mobilising to reinforce all of NATO eastern Europe. It will cost us all a load of our taxes and the last thing we need after COVID but there is no choice. We need to force Russia into a Cold War they can't win. Russia spends 5% of GDP on military - more than any NATO country but their economy is tiny compared to the combined NATO economy. NATO can outspend them easily with some economic pain but with sanctions and the cost of occupation of Ukraine Russia can't win a Cold War. When the wall came down the Soviet `bloc was shown to be hollowed out economically and militarily and actually was posing much less of a conventional military threat than the west feared. The only strategy I can see is to hollow out Russia and hope that Putin is removed by his own people.

Name one expansionist dictator with a nuclear arsenal and the means to reach the western world with it, that has been stopped by force.

Nuclear weapons are the joker and will probably one day be mankind’s ultimate downfall. Hopefully just not right now.

Quoted from Humbercod

This is not what I wanted to see in Ukraine. It didn’t have to end this way. Even days ago an agreement that Ukraine would never join NATO and the full implementation of the Minsk Agreement would have ended the crisis.

The FT’s (berated) call for this was right. Pumping Ukraine full of NATO weapons, mercenaries and propaganda was a grave mistake (and Russia inherits a billion dollars worth of weaponry). What was intended as a demonstration of NATO strength has ended with proof of its weakness.

The US empire is fading. The sun has risen in the east. Britain should fulfil its destiny as an independent country, free from the EU, and free from the USA.

George Galloway.

No it wouldn’t. Why can’t you accept you are 100% wrong? Putin has no issue whatsoever with NATO. What he fears is democracy and openness infecting Russia.

He can’t stomach having a Slavic country on his doorstep that is democratic, free and outward looking. Which is exactly the reason he’s destroyed the free press in Russia over the last 10 years.

He couldn’t allow Ukraine to thrive as the Russian people will start to notice what Putin has done to their own country and stolen from them.

Ukraine is a danger to him because it shows him and his regime for what it is. He’s a dictator in a sham democracy where opposition politicians are locked up.

Ukraine only became a proper issue to him when the Ukrainians kicked out their last Russian leaning President in 2014 and changed from a Putin-like sham democracy to a genuine (but fledgling) democracy. Until then they were Belarus-like.

Panic over Biden has awoken and soon to address the world, Russian tanks will soon be reversing.

Quoted from aldi_01

This is my thinking, there’s too much to lose on both sides for all our nuclear war, but flipping up a few small countries will be more than acceptable. That’s not my view in the slightest mind, but globally that’s what it will be seen as…

If the west sits back, what happens and when does he stop?

If we go all in by supporting Ukraine with military and meaningful economic sanctions, what could happen?

Fighting in Chernobyl now; why use nuclear weapons when you can blow up nuclear waste instead?

Must admit I had no idea Chernobyl was in Ukraine, I always assumed it was inside Russia itself....duh.

Quoted from jamesgtfc

If the west sits back, what happens and when does he stop?

If we go all in by supporting Ukraine with military and meaningful economic sanctions, what could happen?

Fighting in Chernobyl now; why use nuclear weapons when you can blow up nuclear waste instead?

They’re not fighting there. They’re using it as a safe passage to get to Kyiv quicker cause they know the Ukrainians aren’t daft enough to drop ordnance on the exclusion zone. You can always decontaminate after going into the zone so it’s (relatively) safe to do.

Quoted from Poojah

Name one expansionist dictator with a nuclear arsenal and the means to reach the western world with it, that has been stopped by force.

Nuclear weapons are the joker and will probably one day be mankind’s ultimate downfall. Hopefully just not right now.

The mujahideen did a pretty good job. As long as there is MAD then Putin would have to be mad to press the button just because NATO's eastern border is bristling with military hardware and Ukrainian rebels are being fed with military aid. Of course he might become a total crackpot like Hitler - then we have to rely on a successful coup.

Quoted from promotion plaice

Must admit I had no idea Chernobyl was in Ukraine

It’s not anymore.

Quoted from Humbercod

Panic over Biden has awoken and soon to address the world, Russian tanks will soon be reversing.

Fûck off back under your stone you cut price Oswald Moseley.

Quoted from Limerick Mariner

The mujahideen did a pretty good job. As long as there is MAD then Putin would have to be mad to press the button just because NATO's eastern border is bristling with military hardware and Ukrainian rebels are being fed with military aid. Of course he might become a total crackpot like Hitler - then we have to rely on a successful coup.

History tells us that superpowers don’t do well fighting guerrillas in their own back yard, as the US discovered in Vietnam and Russia and the US and it’s allies both discovered in Afghanistan.

Ultimately, both the Viet Cong and the Mujahideen were defending their own territory, and either way deploying nuclear weapons wasn’t an option in any of the above cases.

This is a very different scenario; we’re not taking about guerrilla factions but about two nuclear powers going toe-to-toe in military battle. That has never happened before in history, and if it does then the world will be on a knife edge.

I wouldn’t be so hopeful about the prospects of a guerrilla war. Ukraine doesn’t have the jungle of Vietnam or mountains of Afghanistan. It’s much more open. Also the Russians are much more brutal than the Americans were prepared to be. Look at what they did in Chechnya.

It’s a shame that the hypocrites in the Russian Orthodox Church are supporting this act of fascism.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

I wouldn’t be so hopeful about the prospects of a guerrilla war. Ukraine doesn’t have the jungle of Vietnam or mountains of Afghanistan. It’s much more open. Also the Russians are much more brutal than the Americans were prepared to be. Look at what they did in Chechnya.

It’s a shame that the hypocrites in the Russian Orthodox Church are supporting this act of fascism.

Indeed, I think Ukraine will be done with very quickly. It’s what happens after that which could be cataclysmic.

Clearly he’s planning a major purge. “De-Nazification” he calls it.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Clearly he’s planning a major purge. “De-Nazification” he calls it.

Biden seemed of the opinion that his intention is to reunite the former Soviet Union, which doesn’t sound beyond the realms of possibility.

He also reaffirmed that the United States would of course get involved if Russia attacks any NATO country. Which of course, re-establishing the Soviet Union would entail.

I don’t like where this is headed.

No me neither.

I just hope Putler has some form of extremely aggressive cancer that finishes him off quickly.

Quoted from Humbercod

This is not what I wanted to see in Ukraine. It didn’t have to end this way. Even days ago an agreement that Ukraine would never join NATO and the full implementation of the Minsk Agreement would have ended the crisis.

The FT’s (berated) call for this was right. Pumping Ukraine full of NATO weapons, mercenaries and propaganda was a grave mistake (and Russia inherits a billion dollars worth of weaponry). What was intended as a demonstration of NATO strength has ended with proof of its weakness.

The US empire is fading. The sun has risen in the east. Britain should fulfil its destiny as an independent country, free from the EU, and free from the USA.

George Galloway.

No it flipping wouldn’t. Putin clearly set out his intention to absorb Ukraine in his version of Mein Kampf in the Autumn and in his speech the other day. The only thing he wanted was complete annihilation of the state of Ukraine and it’s absorption into ‘Mother Russia*’.

And if you and other idiots like George Galloway think this is going to advance the cause of socialism one iota, you’re dafter than I thought.

* quite frankly with a mother like that, it’s better to be an orphan.

Quoted from Poojah

History tells us that superpowers don’t do well fighting guerrillas in their own back yard, as the US discovered in Vietnam and Russia and the US and it’s allies both discovered in Afghanistan.

Ultimately, both the Viet Cong and the Mujahideen were defending their own territory, and either way deploying nuclear weapons wasn’t an option in any of the above cases.

This is a very different scenario; we’re not taking about guerrilla factions but about two nuclear powers going toe-to-toe in military battle. That has never happened before in history, and if it does then the world will be on a knife edge.

Yes and you can include the Brits in the south of Ireland in the 1920s.

History (albeit more limited) also tells us that two well-matched conventional militaries backed by nukes results in a military stalemate and economics determines the winner because the weaker economy has to spend a bigger proportion of GDP to keep up militarily. Just the UK and French combined economies are more than 3 times bigger than the Russian economy.

Thanks in part to the Norweigian Resistance we don't know what Hitler would have done with a nuke, very likely he would have used it, but if you look at the series of squeamish decisions the Allies made before and early in the war, the most significant one was after the invasion of Poland. The French halted the Saar offensive in September 39. They had made good inroads into Germany and then just withdrew because Poland had fallen and were worried about the redeploying forces. They suffered 2,000 casualties - about an hours worth of the first day of the Somme. The French had massive numerical superiority, including air, at the time. The Nazis would have taken weeks to redeploy from Poland - if they had invaded full-on it would have changed the dynamics of the war - a possible war of attrition but on German soil giving the UK and France longer to prepare their own defences. What did the Allies think was going to happen next - that the Nazis would just stop? The 7 month phoney war period that followed was exactly what the Nazis wanted.

Following Crimea everything has gone well for Putin - Brexit driving the two biggest European militaries apart, the Trump presidency turning the US inward looking, the response to Novichok - all displaying a weakening West. Think about his timing as well - straight after COVID. He's a Judoka - he thinks like they fight - you get your opponent off- balance before your strike.

What would have happened if Ukraine had been admitted to NATO after Crimea. Would we have had WW3, who knows - but Russia couldn't possibly have gained anything from it if they had started it - it would have been Putin off-balance.

The problem is what happens next as the ball is in Putin's court. If he attacks a NATO country then the sh!t hits the pan, otherwise the world will huff and puff and the bear stays strong.

40% of the EU gas comes from Russia, do they want Putin to switch it off, I think not.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Fûck off back under your stone you cut price Oswald Moseley.

Oswald Mosley eh?
Tell me Kingston have you ever served your country willing to fight and risk your life for it?
I would hazard a guess the answer is no and you can’t count the brownies. You strike me as the kind of mouthy liberal who would excrement his pants if you were ever to be called up. But at least being a Kingston Mariner you would of had the chance to protest outside the Russian Embassy tonight… have you intercourse!

You slagged your Country off on here after we dared to vote Brexit, a typical leftist that hates his own Country and especially hates it being an independent one. I remember when you even slagged Grimsby off from your ivory towers in London are they Russian owned by the way? You hate critical thinkers who won’t swallow the regime narrative, won’t be primed by the Media and questions you’re beloved EU. And now suddenly you remember the go to leftist weapon of choice to shout Racist! Well that wouldn’t quite work this time would it so Oswald Mosley will do, that will definitely silence me… sharp object.

Its because of the EU and London centric left wing muppets like yourself that have helped to make an easy decision for Putin to invade, he’s been watching and seen us decimate our armed forces whilst his grows, impose wokeness and diversity, we have become weak. So I bet he’s thought these idiots have no strength no backbone no threat anymore, they can’t even say that a biological woman is a woman😂 what are they going to do …sanctions, fly Ukraine flags, light candles…pathetic!

Quoted from Limerick Mariner

Yes and you can include the Brits in the south of Ireland in the 1920s.

History (albeit more limited) also tells us that two well-matched conventional militaries backed by nukes results in a military stalemate and economics determines the winner because the weaker economy has to spend a bigger proportion of GDP to keep up militarily. Just the UK and French combined economies are more than 3 times bigger than the Russian economy.

Thanks in part to the Norweigian Resistance we don't know what Hitler would have done with a nuke, very likely he would have used it, but if you look at the series of squeamish decisions the Allies made before and early in the war, the most significant one was after the invasion of Poland. The French halted the Saar offensive in September 39. They had made good inroads into Germany and then just withdrew because Poland had fallen and were worried about the redeploying forces. They suffered 2,000 casualties - about an hours worth of the first day of the Somme. The French had massive numerical superiority, including air, at the time. The Nazis would have taken weeks to redeploy from Poland - if they had invaded full-on it would have changed the dynamics of the war - a possible war of attrition but on German soil giving the UK and France longer to prepare their own defences. What did the Allies think was going to happen next - that the Nazis would just stop? The 7 month phoney war period that followed was exactly what the Nazis wanted.

Following Crimea everything has gone well for Putin - Brexit driving the two biggest European militaries apart, the Trump presidency turning the US inward looking, the response to Novichok - all displaying a weakening West. Think about his timing as well - straight after COVID. He's a Judoka - he thinks like they fight - you get your opponent off- balance before your strike.

What would have happened if Ukraine had been admitted to NATO after Crimea. Would we have had WW3, who knows - but Russia couldn't possibly have gained anything from it if they had started it - it would have been Putin off-balance.

A very good, well learned post that.

You’re right though, this all very calculated by Putin who realistically has been planning this since at least 2014, but needs all of the pieces in place before going ahead. The Russians haven’t been interfering with US and European politics for shìts and giggles.

He’s created an image of himself as a very cold and ruthless individual, and that clearly intimidates Western leaders. We simply don’t have an answer. We’ve been out thought and out-manoeuvred before anything involving NATO interests has even begun.

Quoted from Humbercod

Oswald Mosley eh?
Tell me Kingston have you ever served your country willing to fight and risk your life for it?
I would hazard a guess the answer is no and you can’t count the brownies. You strike me as the kind of mouthy liberal who would excrement his pants if you were ever to be called up. But at least being a Kingston Mariner you would of had the chance to protest outside the Russian Embassy tonight… have you intercourse!

You slagged your Country off on here after we dared to vote Brexit, a typical leftist that hates his own Country and especially hates it being an independent one. I remember when you even slagged Grimsby off from your ivory towers in London are they Russian owned by the way? You hate critical thinkers who won’t swallow the regime narrative, won’t be primed by the Media and questions you’re beloved EU. And now suddenly you remember the go to leftist weapon of choice to shout Racist! Well that wouldn’t quite work this time would it so Oswald Mosley will do, that will definitely silence me… sharp object.

Its because of the EU and London centric left wing muppets like yourself that have helped to make an easy decision for Putin to invade, he’s been watching and seen us decimate our armed forces whilst his grows, impose wokeness and diversity, we have become weak. So I bet he’s thought these idiots have no strength no backbone no threat anymore, they can’t even say that a biological woman is a woman😂 what are they going to do …sanctions, fly Ukraine flags, light candles…pathetic!

I’m not going to read all of your balderdash. But I love my country as much as the next man. I don’t give a excrement what uniform you wore. The only one you belong in is black you Nazi apologist. I love critical thinking. Sadly you’re not a critical thinker. You’re just repeating every line in the Putin apologist play book. I’ve heard it all before. You do t realise what a cliche you are.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

I’m not going to read all of your balderdash. But I love my country as much as the next man. I don’t give a excrement what uniform you wore. The only one you belong in is black you Nazi apologist. I love critical thinking. Sadly you’re not a critical thinker. You’re just repeating every line in the Putin apologist play book. I’ve heard it all before. You do t realise what a cliche you are.

Humbercod is just parroting the shite that Steve Bannon has been saying in the past 24 hours.

He’s down a rabbit hole of conspiracy theories and hate. It’s his poor family I feel sorry for.

Bold to assume anyone could love him.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Humbercod is just parroting the shite that Steve Bannon has been saying in the past 24 hours.

He’s down a rabbit hole of conspiracy theories and hate. It’s his poor family I feel sorry for.

He’s giving it all that ‘I was in the British armed forces’ shtick now. Which means he was part of the same organisation that attacked Serbia and Iraq, that friend Putin has been complaining about for years. So if this makes him a better patriot than me, it also makes him a bigger enemy of Holy Russia. Or is he now saying his military service was a mistake?

The guy’s not capable of holding a consistent line. Which is not surprising for your typical fascist.

Same fellah talks about Britain becoming independent. Yet is happy to go along with another country losing its independence. At least the EU isn’t planning to invade us 😆.

Critical thinker eh. 😂😂😂😂😂

The other thing that puzzles me about the Poundshop Moseley, is why he should think calling someone a ‘leftie’ is an insult when he supposedly supports ‘socialists’ like George Galloway. Anyone would think he doesn’t know what he’s saying.






They wouldn’t be wrong.

It’s perfectly legitimate to not love your country. I hate this appalling shithole country and everyone in it, apart from those in my house.

Heroes On Snake Island

Go intercourse yourselves Russia





Sadly i fear Kyiv will fall today

Somewhere between 350 and 800 Russian troops killed on the first day, Multiple aircraft lost including between 4 and 6 shot down by a single (new) flying ace over Kyiv and a rumours of a transport plane carrying (estimated) 200 paratroopers downed. Fierce defence from the Ukrainians.

I'd take any claims of losses from either side with a massive pinch of salt, truth be told, as there will be a lot of bullshit propaganda on display. No doubt both sides will suffer substantial casualties as they have similar weapons technology, but the weight of numbers will mean that the Russians will most likely be able to roll through a lot of the Ukrainian defences. With the Ukraine air defences destroyed, they are sitting targets if they try to dig in anywhere.

Quoted from LH

Somewhere between 350 and 800 Russian troops killed on the first day, Multiple aircraft lost including between 4 and 6 shot down by a single (new) flying ace over Kyiv and a rumours of a transport plane carrying (estimated) 200 paratroopers downed. Fierce defence from the Ukrainians.

It’s sad when anybody dies in a pointless war, but this war has to cost Russia in every way possible: International reputation, financially, economically and in terms of body bags heading back to Russia.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

I’m not going to read all of your balderdash. But I love my country as much as the next man. I don’t give a excrement what uniform you wore. The only one you belong in is black you Nazi apologist. I love critical thinking. Sadly you’re not a critical thinker. You’re just repeating every line in the Putin apologist play book. I’ve heard it all before. You do t realise what a cliche you are.

Your not going to read but you have …. Priceless 😂

I know you don’t give a excrement about the uniform if it was up to soy boys like you Corbyn would be in charge now and we wouldn’t have an armed forces.

The Nazi apologist crap is just desperate which is ironic really coming from an EU fanatic who would hand over our sovereign powers to them in a heartbeat. Not rattled are you😂

Quoted from Humbercod

Your not going to read but you have …. Priceless 😂

I know you don’t give a excrement about the uniform if it was up to you soy boys like you Corbyn would be in charge now and we wouldn’t have an armed forces.

The Nazi apologist crap is just desperate which is ironic really coming from an EU fanatic who would hand over our sovereign powers to them in a heartbeat. Not rattled are you😂

I say this as an act of kindness. You are embarrassing yourself. Have a bit of self respect.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Humbercod is just parroting the shite that Steve Bannon has been saying in the past 24 hours.

He’s down a rabbit hole of conspiracy theories and hate. It’s his poor family I feel sorry for.

It’s funny you mention Bannon because I’d nearly forgot about him, I don’t think I’ve heard or seen anything of him since his days in the White House you know when we had a Leader of the free world. I remember when idiots like you were telling me if Trump becomes President get ready for WW3!
I’ve not got much more to say to a sixth former like you who compares the Russia/Ukraine conflict to the Nazi invasion of Poland🤡

Quoted from Maringer

I'd take any claims of losses from either side with a massive pinch of salt, truth be told, as there will be a lot of bullshit propaganda on display. No doubt both sides will suffer substantial casualties as they have similar weapons technology, but the weight of numbers will mean that the Russians will most likely be able to roll through a lot of the Ukrainian defences. With the Ukraine air defences destroyed, they are sitting targets if they try to dig in anywhere.

800 reported by Ukraine’s MOD and 350 by Russian media. If the Ukrainians are downing Russia’s Hercules equivalents in the early stages of an invasion they will be losing huge numbers. Ukraine’s declared losses after heavy bombardment were as low as 160odd so as you say not sure everything can be believed.  

Quoted from Humbercod

Your not going to read but you have …. Priceless 😂

I know you don’t give a excrement about the uniform if it was up to you soy boys like you Corbyn would be in charge now and we wouldn’t have an armed forces.

The Nazi apologist crap is just desperate which is ironic really coming from an EU fanatic who would hand over our sovereign powers to them in a heartbeat. Not rattled are you😂

How many wars have there been in mainland Europe since the countries came together economically and politically?

Quoted from KingstonMariner

He’s giving it all that ‘I was in the British armed forces’ shtick now. Which means he was part of the same organisation that attacked Serbia and Iraq, that friend Putin has been complaining about for years. So if this makes him a better patriot than me, it also makes him a bigger enemy of Holy Russia. Or is he now saying his military service was a mistake?

The guy’s not capable of holding a consistent line. Which is not surprising for your typical fascist.

Same fellah talks about Britain becoming independent. Yet is happy to go along with another country losing its independence. At least the EU isn’t planning to invade us 😆.

Critical thinker eh. 😂😂😂😂😂

Wow  back f  ok r a second pop I have rattled you me old be old Soy boy!
‘Part of the organisation’ is that what you lot  call it down at the local vegan cafe?

Will you be popping down to the Russian Embassy anytime today to show off you’re fake outrage? Taking your little Ukrainian flag to show your fake support for another corrupt country? Or has your Oyster card run out of credit?

Quoted from LH

800 reported by Ukraine’s MOD and 350 by Russian media. If the Ukrainians are downing Russia’s Hercules equivalents in the early stages of an invasion they will be losing huge numbers. Ukraine’s declared losses after heavy bombardment were as low as 160odd so as you say not sure everything can be believed.  

Remember, It’s much easier for an advancing army to count their dead than a retreating army.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

I say this as an act of kindness. You are embarrassing yourself. Have a bit of self respect.

Save me your fake crocodile tears. Didn’t mummy ever tell you don’t give if you can’t take!

Ukraine President will be doing the deal before long he’s been on national tv criticising the useless NATO. Let the 2 massively corrupt nations just get on with it.

Quoted from Humbercod

It’s funny you mention Bannon because I’d nearly forgot about him, I don’t think I’ve heard or seen anything of him since his days in the White House you know when we had a Leader of the free world. I remember when idiots like you were telling me if Trump becomes President get ready for WW3!
I’ve not got much more to say to a sixth former like you who compares the Russia/Ukraine conflict to the Nazi invasion of Poland🤡

Lost the argument so wants to stop talking. Classic.

In 1939 Germany accused Poland of atrocities against German speakers.

The Russian foreign minister is holding a press conference right now where he is repeating the same baseless accusations against Ukraine.

Lavrov has even accused the Ukrainian president (a native Russian speaker) of banning the Russian language in Ukraine. Which is odd because every press conference or statement that the President has made has been done in both Ukrainian and Russian.

You might think you are making various other forum users look stupid with your replies, but honestly everyone is thinking you are making a fool of yourself and are an embarrassment. If you really believe the rubbish you are posting on here you need to seek help. And quickly.

Quoted from Humbercod

Save me your fake crocodile tears. Didn’t mummy ever tell you don’t give if you can’t take!

I can take anything you want to say. Doesn’t alter the fact that I actually pity you.

Quoted from jamesgtfc

How many wars have there been in mainland Europe since the countries came together economically and politically?

How could we of ever been together without Russia being in NATO? This has been brewing for years with more encroachment towards Russia, even plans for EU Army etc. Russia are a paranoid nation and the west has been told for years  ‘don’t poke the bear’ but totally ignored. Well we’re listening now!

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Lost the argument so wants to stop talking. Classic.

In 1939 Germany accused Poland of atrocities against German speakers.

The Russian foreign minister is holding a press conference right now where he is repeating the same baseless accusations against Ukraine.

Lavrov has even accused the Ukrainian president (a native Russian speaker) of banning the Russian language in Ukraine. Which is odd because every press conference or statement that the President has made has been done in both Ukrainian and Russian.

You might think you are making various other forum users look stupid with your replies, but honestly everyone is thinking you are making a fool of yourself and are an embarrassment. If you really believe the rubbish you are posting on here you need to seek help. And quickly.

2 shots in succession another liberal rattled, I can’t take much more of you my sides are going to split give up with the sixth form Nazi invasion of Poland you utter idiot. Talk to me when he’s throwing Ukrainians into a concentration camp, Hitler wasn’t known to be bad because he invaded Poland! He was bad because he was flipping killing Jews🤬

UEFA confirm Champions League final is being relocated from Russia’s Saint Petersburg to Stade de France in Saint-Denis just north of Paris.

Quoted from Humbercod

2 shots in succession another liberal rattled, I can’t take much more of you my sides are going to split give up with the sixth form Nazi invasion of Poland you utter idiot. Talk to me when he’s throwing Ukrainians into a concentration camp, Hitler wasn’t known to be bad because he invaded Poland! He was bad because he was flipping killing Jews🤬

Maybe we should let Putin get on with it and when he's finished, encourage Mongolia to rebuild their empire. Whilst we are at it, lets get to work on rebuilding the British Empire.

Quoted from promotion plaice

UEFA confirm Champions League final is being relocated from Russia’s Saint Petersburg to Stade de France in Saint-Denis just north of Paris.

Anybody got their tickets for the Russian GP yet? If there's one sport which is extremely comfortable cosying up to dictators and tyrants, it's F1, so will they even cancel it?

Quoted from Maringer

Anybody got their tickets for the Russian GP yet? If there's one sport which is extremely comfortable cosying up to dictators and tyrants, it's F1, so will they even cancel it?

I saw something that said they’re looking at the situation closely. I’m not sure they’ll move it though…

Quoted from Humbercod

2 shots in succession another liberal rattled, I can’t take much more of you my sides are going to split give up with the sixth form Nazi invasion of Poland you utter idiot. Talk to me when he’s throwing Ukrainians into a concentration camp, Hitler wasn’t known to be bad because he invaded Poland! He was bad because he was flipping killing Jews🤬

i mean Putin is killing innocent Ukrainian citizens and children you flipping idiot

So on that logic, blowing up houses and towns is ok Becauee he’s not rounding them up and committing genocide? Weird…

Anyway, Russian GP has been cancelled…

Interesting discussion on R4 this morning about a no fly zone. Ukrainian MP was asking for it to be put in place and Ben Wallace saying a NFZ would now escalate this into a European war and he wouldn't put British pilots at risk.

But why wasn't a pre-emptive NFZ put in place? It seems on this occasion NATO intelligence was spot on - even Russian battle order plans were known. Justify it on humanitarian grounds - stopping civilians being exposed to lethal air attacks. We know diplomacy doesn't work with the likes of Putin. He uses it tactically only so he can work to his military timetable. What is there to lose with aggressive defence when we know he's coming anyway?

Quoted from Hagrid

i mean Putin is killing innocent Ukrainian citizens and children you flipping idiot

Apparently indiscriminate killing of civilians, including children, is fine. Unless Putin resorts to industrial killing there’s not an issue.

Quoted from Limerick Mariner

Interesting discussion on R4 this morning about a no fly zone. Ukrainian MP was asking for it to be put in place and Ben Wallace saying a NFZ would now escalate this into a European war and he wouldn't put British pilots at risk.

But why wasn't a pre-emptive NFZ put in place? It seems on this occasion NATO intelligence was spot on - even Russian battle order plans were known. Justify it on humanitarian grounds - stopping civilians being exposed to lethal air attacks. We know diplomacy doesn't work with the likes of Putin. He uses it tactically only so he can work to his military timetable. What is there to lose with aggressive defence when we know he's coming anyway?

You would have to wonder what else the NATO allies know of Russia’s plans. Will there be another target once Ukraine is subdued?

Quoted from GollyGTFC

You would have to wonder what else the NATO allies know Russia’s plans. Will there will another target once Ukraine is subdued?

You wonder what all secret services know to some extent. I saw the article about the Victorian throw back withdrawing cash from an account that would’ve ultimately been affected by this…two weeks ago…

Quoted from Limerick Mariner

Interesting discussion on R4 this morning about a no fly zone. Ukrainian MP was asking for it to be put in place and Ben Wallace saying a NFZ would now escalate this into a European war and he wouldn't put British pilots at risk.

But why wasn't a pre-emptive NFZ put in place? It seems on this occasion NATO intelligence was spot on - even Russian battle order plans were known. Justify it on humanitarian grounds - stopping civilians being exposed to lethal air attacks. We know diplomacy doesn't work with the likes of Putin. He uses it tactically only so he can work to his military timetable. What is there to lose with aggressive defence when we know he's coming anyway?

Listened to this interview this morning and couldn't help feel utter pity for the Ukrainian MP who was practically begging for help.  Wallace put his points across well, I thought, even if I'm not a huge fan of him.  But overall it just highlighted that as a country we're very much at the mercy of everyone else, a completely small fish in this pond and we'll follow suit accordingly.

Greater sanctions are definitely needed, it's simply not enough at the minute.  I fear this won't happen as we're a) scared, despite putting on a brave face in public, by Russia and b) dependent on the supply of energy from Russia.  

This is quite an interesting read and hammers home that we're all just puppets in a big production really. https://bywire.news/articles/nato-should-have-let-russia-join-it-when-it-had-the-chance

Thoughts are with those trapped in the conflict.  Some of the videos emerging are absolutely horrific and you can't even begin to imagine the panic levels.

Quoted from diehardmariner

Listened to this interview this morning and couldn't help feel utter pity for the Ukrainian MP who was practically begging for help.  Wallace put his points across well, I thought, even if I'm not a huge fan of him.  But overall it just highlighted that as a country we're very much at the mercy of everyone else, a completely small fish in this pond and we'll follow suit accordingly.

Greater sanctions are definitely needed, it's simply not enough at the minute.  I fear this won't happen as we're a) scared, despite putting on a brave face in public, by Russia and b) dependent on the supply of energy from Russia.  

This is quite an interesting read and hammers home that we're all just puppets in a big production really. https://bywire.news/articles/nato-should-have-let-russia-join-it-when-it-had-the-chance

Thoughts are with those trapped in the conflict.  Some of the videos emerging are absolutely horrific and you can't even begin to imagine the panic levels.

C) have a leading political party accepting huge amounts of russian money…

Quoted from diehardmariner

Listened to this interview this morning and couldn't help feel utter pity for the Ukrainian MP who was practically begging for help.  Wallace put his points across well, I thought, even if I'm not a huge fan of him.  But overall it just highlighted that as a country we're very much at the mercy of everyone else, a completely small fish in this pond and we'll follow suit accordingly.

Greater sanctions are definitely needed, it's simply not enough at the minute.  I fear this won't happen as we're a) scared, despite putting on a brave face in public, by Russia and b) dependent on the supply of energy from Russia.  

This is quite an interesting read and hammers home that we're all just puppets in a big production really. https://bywire.news/articles/nato-should-have-let-russia-join-it-when-it-had-the-chance

Thoughts are with those trapped in the conflict.  Some of the videos emerging are absolutely horrific and you can't even begin to imagine the panic levels.

It's tough for the rest of the world. Most of the world relies heavily on Russia and their closest ally China but I'm sure if Russia enter a NATO state by air or foot then things will ramp up very quickly.

Russia has now been kicked out of this year's Eurovision Song Contest after Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine.

The organisers said Russia's participation would "bring the competition into disrepute".

Shame they didn't kick us out as well to put us out of our misery in the competition.

Quoted from promotion plaice

Russia has now been kicked out of this year's Eurovision Song Contest after Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine.

The organisers said Russia's participation would "bring the competition into disrepute".

Shame they didn't kick us out as well to put us out of our misery in the competition.

Ha - take that you pig-faced fascist - didn't expect that did you. You'll be taking your tanks home now won't you...

Quoted from promotion plaice

Russia has now been kicked out of this year's Eurovision Song Contest after Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine.

The organisers said Russia's participation would "bring the competition into disrepute".

Shame they didn't kick us out as well to put us out of our misery in the competition.

Maybe we could invade Cornwall?

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Maybe we could invade Cornwall?

Bit big - I don't think our regular armed forces, we'd have to call up the reserves. Go for for the Isle of Wight.

Quoted from promotion plaice

Russia has now been kicked out of this year's Eurovision Song Contest after Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine.

The organisers said Russia's participation would "bring the competition into disrepute".

Shame they didn't kick us out as well to put us out of our misery in the competition.

I wonder what the odds are of Ukraine winning the Eurovision Political Contest...

Quoted from Humbercod

How could we of ever been together without Russia being in NATO? This has been brewing for years with more encroachment towards Russia, even plans for EU Army etc. Russia are a paranoid nation and the west has been told for years  ‘don’t poke the bear’ but totally ignored. Well we’re listening now!

I think it’s incredibly difficult…in fact impossible….even with a huge dose of kindness and patience, to actually reflect upon, or take seriously the views of a man who:

A) Thinks Trump has any sort of credibility as a sane and sentient human.
B) Still doesn’t know the correct use of ‘of’ and ‘have’ despite being told more than half a dozen times. Ditto: ‘your’ and ‘you're’ - the stuff we expect of kids under 10 years old.
C) Hasn’t  demonstrated any sort of ability to evolve a view, or learn anything, or research and attempt to balance standpoints.
D) Still clings to the wreckage of Brexit, which has been utterly discredited in every regard, and consider his view on it to be an act of patriotism for his nation to impose significantly more harmful sanctions on itself, than it has on Russia.

Old Irish proverb….‘don’t give cherries to pigs, or advice to fools’.

You Sir, are a dimwit.

Quoted from Limerick Mariner

Bit big - I don't think our regular armed forces, we'd have to call up the reserves. Go for for the Isle of Wight.

What an amphibious assault across the Solent? Crazy!

Quoted from GollyGTFC

What an amphibious assault across the Solent? Crazy!

Yeah probably right. I was thinking paras holding out until the navy could spare a craft or two, where is the Lincoln Castle these days...?

Quoted from Limerick Mariner

Yeah probably right. I was thinking paras holding out until the navy could spare a craft or two, where is the Lincoln Castle these days...?

I mean they could just take the ferry, but have you seen the price? The government could never afford it*.

*unless one of them has a consultancy role at Wightlink.

I think the Ukrainian PM is a brave, strong and true gentleman. Staying with his people.

West should learn a thing or too

Quoted from Hagrid

I think the Ukrainian PM is a brave, strong and true gentleman. Staying with his people.

West should learn a thing or too

2 pronged tactic by the Russian media. Try turn the Ukrainian people against their leader by making them think he's running away and also making him confirm he's still in Kiev.

Record a video with a visible landmark in the background. Release it 30 minutes later after you're far away. Not exactly difficult do these days. If they've got Internet access, they can send the file to somebody else to release via WhatsApp for instance! Or one of the other secure messaging services.

Quoted from Humbercod

Your not going to read but you have …. Priceless 😂

I know you don’t give a excrement about the uniform if it was up to soy boys like you Corbyn would be in charge now and we wouldn’t have an armed forces.

The Nazi apologist crap is just desperate which is ironic really coming from an EU fanatic who would hand over our sovereign powers to them in a heartbeat. Not rattled are you😂

I read the first bit then gave up. Is that really so difficult for you to understand?

Tangentially related:





Plenty more out there as well.

Farage, of course, has been blaming NATO and the EU.

Quoted from promotion plaice

Russia has now been kicked out of this year's Eurovision Song Contest after Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine.

The organisers said Russia's participation would "bring the competition into disrepute".

Shame they didn't kick us out as well to put us out of our misery in the competition.

And I thought this was our big chance to achieve the dizzy heights of second bottom.

I tell you what, if Ukraine manage to get an entrant in, put money on them to win right now. I wonder if any bookies are taking bets already?

I tangentially seem to remember their entry a few years back was quite entertaining - something to do with milkmaids churning butter?

Wasn’t there a geriatric drag act from there one year too?

Aside from camp culture it was inspting to see the Klitschko brothers, Oleksandr Usyk and President Zelenskyy himself donning uniform and picking up weapons today.

Quoted from Maringer

I tell you what, if Ukraine manage to get an entrant in, put money on them to win right now. I wonder if any bookies are taking bets already?

I tangentially seem to remember their entry a few years back was quite entertaining - something to do with milkmaids churning butter?

That was Poland - Donatan & Cleo.

Stop getting Eurovision wrong!

Quoted from LH

Wasn’t there a geriatric drag act from there one year too?

Aside from camp culture it was inspting to see the Klitschko brothers, Oleksandr Usyk and President Zelenskyy himself donning uniform and picking up weapons today.

Sort of a transvestite Tin Man wasn’t it?

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Sort of a transvestite Tin Man wasn’t it?

You can call Wladimir that to his face if you want but he was a world heavyweight champion! 😉

Quoted from KingstonMariner

And I thought this was our big chance to achieve the dizzy heights of second bottom.

Should also include Germany and Italy utter cowards so glad we left their club 🇬🇧

I have just read Putin is threatening Finland & Sweden if they join NATO. The man is a lunatic and Biden needs to sort him out fast.

Overrunning and ex-communist state is not acceptable nor is threatening these neutral countries.

Quoted from DB

I have just read Putin is threatening Finland & Sweden if they join NATO. The man is a lunatic and Biden needs to sort him out fast.

Overrunning and ex-communist state is not acceptable nor is threatening these neutral countries.

Where have you read that?

He'd have to be a madman to try to attack the Finns. Very, very patriotic and they still have national service over there so pretty much every adult male knows which way to hold a rifle. My sister lived over there for a decade and her boyfriend was, I seem to remember, something like a Captain's rank in their territorials.

Not sure how they'd do against modern armoured divisions but they fought the Soviets to a standstill in WWII for a couple of months, assisted by the weather, of course.

I see it’s on the Daily Mail website.

Quoted from DB

I have just read Putin is threatening Finland & Sweden if they join NATO. The man is a lunatic and Biden needs to sort him out fast.

Overrunning and ex-communist state is not acceptable nor is threatening these neutral countries.

Biden on his Hols
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/feb/25/biden-heads-delaware-russian-troops-head-toward-ky/

Quoted from chaos33

Where have you read that?

Mail on Line this morning.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10553723/Putin-turns-attention-Finland-Sweden-Kremlin-official-warns-nations.html

Lithuania are closing their airspace to Russia from tonight.

That will affect the Russian exclave of Kaliningrad, which is surrounded by Lithuania / Poland.

This could be about to get messier.

I think by the end of the weekend all of Europe’s airspace will be shut to Russian flights. The operators have probably already been informed. I wouldn’t want to be a Brit abroad in Asia for a while to be honest.

Geopolitically, this is much more complex than most people realise. It really needs a diplomatic solution with compromises and empathy on both sides. It cannot be solved with armed conflict or sanctions etc.

Quoted from chaos33

Geopolitically, this is much more complex than most people realise. It really needs a diplomatic solution with compromises and empathy on both sides. It cannot be solved with armed conflict or sanctions etc.

Agree

Quoted from chaos33

Geopolitically, this is much more complex than most people realise. It really needs a diplomatic solution with compromises and empathy on both sides. It cannot be solved with armed conflict or sanctions etc.

No it needs a solution that results in Ukraine remaining a democratic, independent country under control of all it’s internationally recognised territories including Crimea. If any part of Ukraine genuinely wishes to be either an independent country or to join Russia then that can only happen with a free and fair referendum under international supervision and verification after the dust has settled on Russia’s occupations since 2014 and full scale invasion.

Russia cannot be seen to have any wins from Ukraine however small. They must be an international pariah in every imaginable way until Putin is gone at the earliest.

Putin might seem like he has an iron grip on Russia, but he only has that whilst the police and security forces remain loyal to him. Let’s see what happens if those forces aren’t getting paid or if the sanctions cause inflation in Russia to spiral out of control.

I understand that and agree to some extent, but there is some need to consider the view that Russia faces the reality of an ever expanding NATO on its borders with weapons. It is morally wrong to attack Ukraine and deny its right to act in a way it sees fit, but Putin can be said to have a point when he states that the USA would not permit Russia to have military/nuclear capability on its borders - say in Canada, or Mexico.

Quoted from chaos33

I understand that and agree to some extent, but there is some need to consider the view that Russia faces the reality of an ever expanding NATO on its borders with weapons. It is morally wrong to attack Ukraine and deny its right to act in a way it sees fit, but Putin can be said to have a point when he states that the USA would not permit Russia to have military/nuclear capability on its borders - say in Canada, or Mexico.

First time I’ve heard you speak any sense!
Brave for sticking your head above the non fishy parapet.

I just think, if you try to take a meta perspective, you have to acknowledge just how complex the geopolitics are and how far back this tangle tracks. I really can’t understand or justify a Russian invasion, but because I believe that the aberration requires a complex diplomatic negotiation for peace, then there would need to be some sort of consideration of what Russia says it wants and why Putin is claiming that the provocation for warmongering was a ‘security crisis’ for Russia with ‘weapons in the porch of its house’. I think the incredible complexity is encapsulated in the universal acknowledgement that Ukraine must be allowed to exist as a free, democratic, peaceful democracy - free to go its own way, but if it joins NATO as part of a further expansion you could kind of acknowledge why Russia would have security concerns, in the same way we would if Russia had a military presence in Wales. Putin is obviously taking the view that attack is the best form of defence - not only do I think we can all agree this is immoral, appalling, horrific, unjustified….it makes no strategic or military sense in my mind - there’s no way that Russia can ‘win’ this war in any full sense. Thousands of Ukrainian and Russian lives will be lost and there’ll be no military resolution to it now it’s started. It’ll only escalate unless there are diplomatic compromises.

I can’t get my head around this way of thinking. If anything the last week has shown why NATO expansion has been necessary. Members Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania have been left well alone but when Ukraine looked to join in the early part of the last decade they became occupied to prevent it. NATO expands to prevent tyrants expanding themselves.

The situation isn’t helped when media outlets peddle the same images they’ve used before, when incorrect information is shared on a mass level and people like Mogg clearly use their insider knowledge to look after themselves…

Quoted from LH

I can’t get my head around this way of thinking. If anything the last week has shown why NATO expansion has been necessary. Members Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania have been left well alone but when Ukraine looked to join in the early part of the last decade they became occupied to prevent it. NATO expands to prevent tyrants expanding themselves.

I get that and agree. I guess the point I’m making is that the geopolitical truth is lost in the tangle of the perceptions of intent, if you like. NATO may well be expanding to ‘prevent the actions of tyrants’, but that’s not how Putin sees it. It’s about ‘perceived threat’ more than actual threat. He can’t just be written off as a Pariah or a madman like Johnson would have you think. It’s not a f@cking game of soldiers, and something you can deal with in pithy, frivolous slogans. It needs to be dealt with in multi layers. It needs statecraft - something that Britain doesn’t have. Christ it doesn’t even understand that refugees tend not to need to apply for visas!

I guess you could also argue that, if NATO is expanding ‘in order to prevent warmongering’ or ‘tyrants’, as you s suggested, then it can be said that it has failed in that regard. Hence - war in Europe.

Quoted from aldi_01

The situation isn’t helped when media outlets peddle the same images they’ve used before, when incorrect information is shared on a mass level and people like Mogg clearly use their insider knowledge to look after themselves…

People like Mogg, Sunak et al are not doing a £120k+ per year job because they are happy with the wealth they've built.

Has Rees-Mogg committed insider-trading? Hard to say because anyone with any sense would have been offloading any exposure they had to Russia in the last month or so. MPs should not be allowed to invest in specific stocks, if they are to invest, they or the companies they are associated with should be limited to index funds.

Kyiv's Mayor Vitali Klitschko tells Russians to "go back home"

I see the EU has now banned all Russian aircraft from their airspace and state-owned media such as RT and Sputnik.

I wonder when we will follow suit. Where will Humbercod get his information from then?

Quoted from chaos33

I get that and agree. I guess the point I’m making is that the geopolitical truth is lost in the tangle of the perceptions of intent, if you like. NATO may well be expanding to ‘prevent the actions of tyrants’, but that’s not how Putin sees it. It’s about ‘perceived threat’ more than actual threat. He can’t just be written off as a Pariah or a madman like Johnson would have you think. It’s not a f@cking game of soldiers, and something you can deal with in pithy, frivolous slogans. It needs to be dealt with in multi layers. It needs statecraft - something that Britain doesn’t have. Christ it doesn’t even understand that refugees tend not to need to apply for visas!

I guess you could also argue that, if NATO is expanding ‘in order to prevent warmongering’ or ‘tyrants’, as you s suggested, then it can be said that it has failed in that regard. Hence - war in Europe.

Arguments about how we or the US wouldn't allow Russia to run Wales or Canada are just absurd. NATO is not ruling entity. Governments can choose to withdraw form it. And it is Putin that has started the nuclear re-escalation. I've changed my view on this - in the past I've sympathised with with the view that NATO shouldn't expand provocatively after wall came down. But the world has changed. Russia is run by a dictatorship that just ignores international treaties and China has done the same with Hong Kong. Taiwan will be grabbed at some point. Yes, we in the West are hypocrites, democracy is a sham, corruption, inequality, what about Iraq, Afghanistan blah blah blah. When climate change really starts to hit we are going to need our military not just for defence, but for humanitarian purposes. It's going to cost trillions. We need to start paying for it.

Back to Ukraine, if things start to get messy for the Russian military (it doesn't seem to be going to plan)  Putin will go in harder with bombing and missile attacks. NATO should be pouring in the missile and air defence systems. Maybe they are.

I think you’ve missed the point about Canada/Wales, and you seem to be advocating further and more extreme military responses as an antidote to the crisis. That, is what’s truly absurd.

Having lived under Soviet rule, is it any wonder that so many countries wish to join NATO. Putin’s threats against Sweden and Finland are more likely to encourage their membership, rather than discourage it.

If this continues to escalate, we could well end up with Russia, China and various other hangers on (Belarus, Syria, N Korea) v the rest of the world. Terrifying stuff!

Quoted from blundellpork

Having lived under Soviet rule, is it any wonder that so many countries wish to join NATO. Putin’s threats against Sweden and Finland are more likely to encourage their membership, rather than discourage it.

If this continues to escalate, we could well end up with Russia, China and various other hangers on (Belarus, Syria, N Korea) v the rest of the world. Terrifying stuff!

China, this far, have refused to stand by their Russian allies. They’ve stopped short of denouncing them, but this is still politically significant.

Russia is completely alone in the world right now.

Quoted from jamesgtfc

I see the EU has now banned all Russian aircraft from their airspace and state-owned media such as RT and Sputnik.

I wonder when we will follow suit. Where will Humbercod get his information from then?

Steve Bannon.

Quoted from chaos33

I think you’ve missed the point about Canada/Wales, and you seem to be advocating further and more extreme military responses as an antidote to the crisis. That, is what’s truly absurd.

Yes, because making it impossible for Putin to successfully invade any NATO countries requires that. The historical precedent is 1938 not de-escalation like 1961/62, unless you think the people of Ukraine should be bombed to oblivion and of Latvia, Estonia, and Lithuania subject to constant cyberattack, false flag tactics followed by invasion. The Germans have just voted to increase military spending by an unprecedented level, bringing them to the 2% NATO threshold and close to UK and French levels. Russia are at circa 5% and they can't really afford it without their massive hydrocarbon exports.

Putin has to be deposed by the Russians, his position at home has to become untenable through being an international pariah country with a collapsing economy - and bodybags from Ukraine.

Quoted from Poojah

China, this far, have refused to stand by their Russian allies. They’ve stopped short of denouncing them, but this is still politically significant.

Russia is completely alone in the world right now.

I honestly think this will end with Putin being deposed. It’s just a question of how long it takes & how much damage is done in that time.

It could well be very soon if the sanctions keep coming and Russia’s economy is devastated.

Quoted from Poojah

China, this far, have refused to stand by their Russian allies. They’ve stopped short of denouncing them, but this is still politically significant.

Russia is completely alone in the world right now.

No, they still have Belarus!

Quoted from Limerick Mariner

Yes, because making it impossible for Putin to successfully invade any NATO countries requires that. The historical precedent is 1938 not de-escalation like 1961/62, unless you think the people of Ukraine should be bombed to oblivion and of Latvia, Estonia, and Lithuania subject to constant cyberattack, false flag tactics followed by invasion. The Germans have just voted to increase military spending by an unprecedented level, bringing them to the 2% NATO threshold and close to UK and French levels. Russia are at circa 5% and they can't really afford it without their massive hydrocarbon exports.

Putin has to be deposed by the Russians, his position at home has to become untenable through being an international pariah country with a collapsing economy - and bodybags from Ukraine.

Yeah it’s a good post mate. What a mess.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

No, they still have Belarus!

and Uzbekistan!

Quoted from GrimRob

and Uzbekistan!

Kazakhstan told them to fúck off though when they asked for support from their troops.

This in itself is significant; I understand through my cultural learnings that they are the number one exporter of potassium. All other countries have inferior potassium.

Russia’s central bank has more than doubled interest rates from 9.5% to an eye watering record high of 20%. This is on the back of 7 interest rate increases last year from the record low for Russian interest rate.

Ouch.

Quite remarkable that former Heavyweight boxing champions Vitali and Wladimir Klitschko have signed up to fight on the front line in Kyiv, and have been joined by Vasyl Lomachenko and Oleksandr Usyk. Usyk is the current WBA, IBF and WBO heavyweight champion, and is / was due to fight Anthony Joshua in a rematch for those titles in the summer.

These are multi-millionaires who do not need to reside in Ukraine in order to lead comfortable lines. Absolute balls of steel to put their lives on the line for their country when they don’t really have to.

Huge, huge respect.

Quoted from Poojah

Quite remarkable that former Heavyweight boxing champions Vitali and Wladimir Klitschko have signed up to fight on the front line in Kyiv, and have been joined by Vasyl Lomachenko and Oleksandr Usyk. Usyk is the current WBA, IBF and WBO heavyweight champion, and is / was due to fight Anthony Joshua in a rematch for those titles in the summer.

These are multi-millionaires who do not need to reside in Ukraine in order to lead comfortable lines. Absolute balls of steel to put their lives on the line for their country when they don’t really have to.

Huge, huge respect.

Meanwhile our leader hides from journalists in a fridge and his wife co-founded Conservative Friends of Russia.

Quoted from Poojah

Quite remarkable that former Heavyweight boxing champions Vitali and Wladimir Klitschko have signed up to fight on the front line in Kyiv, and have been joined by Vasyl Lomachenko and Oleksandr Usyk. Usyk is the current WBA, IBF and WBO heavyweight champion, and is / was due to fight Anthony Joshua in a rematch for those titles in the summer.

These are multi-millionaires who do not need to reside in Ukraine in order to lead comfortable lines. Absolute balls of steel to put their lives on the line for their country when they don’t really have to.

Huge, huge respect.

“It’s not the size of the dog in the fight, it’s the size of the fight in the dog.”

Approx. 5,300 Russians dead and they’re on day 5.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

“It’s not the size of the dog in the fight, it’s the size of the fight in the dog.”

Approx. 5,300 Russians dead and they’re on day 5.

If that figure is even close to right then I find it absolutely astonishing. There were fewer than 2,500 US deaths in Afghanistan in 20 years of occupation, so I find it a little hard to believe.

That said, Russia does appear to have sent in a lot of young and inexperienced conscripts, so it’s possible they’ve seen a disproportionate level of casualties.

My worry for the “size of the fight in the dog” argument is that no matter how hearty the Ukrainians are, Russia will just keep coming back with bigger dogs with nastier teeth until the job is done.

I hope I’m wrong.

Quoted from jamesgtfc

Meanwhile our leader hides from journalists in a fridge and his wife co-founded Conservative Friends of Russia.

The Ukrainians had a comedian who became a leader
We have a leader who became a comedian

I've just watched the Ukrainian ambassador speak at the UN emergency meeting. Very powerful at the end as he asked for a raise of hands from any country that voted for the accession of Russia to the UN.

No hands were raised...

Quoted from Poojah

If that figure is even close to right then I find it absolutely astonishing. There were fewer than 2,500 US deaths in Afghanistan in 20 years of occupation, so I find it a little hard to believe.

That said, Russia does appear to have sent in a lot of young and inexperienced conscripts, so it’s possible they’ve seen a disproportionate level of casualties.

My worry for the “size of the fight in the dog” argument is that no matter how hearty the Ukrainians are, Russia will just keep coming back with bigger dogs with nastier teeth until the job is done.

I hope I’m wrong.

It’s a believable figure given the US figures are for voluntarily recruited professional soldiers and not just anyone off the streets. They’ll have trained for months before they’ve got to their unit and then trained with them before deployment. Would guess that most deaths there were from IEDs too and they didn’t have every man under 60 shooting at them all the time.

Quoted from Poojah

If that figure is even close to right then I find it absolutely astonishing. There were fewer than 2,500 US deaths in Afghanistan in 20 years of occupation, so I find it a little hard to believe.

That said, Russia does appear to have sent in a lot of young and inexperienced conscripts, so it’s possible they’ve seen a disproportionate level of casualties.

My worry for the “size of the fight in the dog” argument is that no matter how hearty the Ukrainians are, Russia will just keep coming back with bigger dogs with nastier teeth until the job is done.

I hope I’m wrong.

You have to ask what state the Russian military is actually in. They seem to be a bit like a lot of YouTube influencers. What they show you is amazing, but the reality is no where near what is suggested.

After all their military spending is only at the same level as the UK and about 1/12th of the USA.

After years of only fighting those who can’t realistically fight back they’re now fighting a live opponent and it ain’t easy.

I’m inclined to believe the Russian dead figure is high because everything is pointing to them being very poorly trained. Which is odd when you consider how long they were training a couple of miles from the Ukrainian border.

The influencer comparison is pretty good. Last year’s defence review focused on making the British forces a small but professional military. To do that you need the right kit, lots of training and integration within the branches. You also need to work with similar nations on training, equipment development, intelligence and tactics. Russia appear to be too inward looking on all of those fronts. Add the conscript element and a complete lack of awareness of what’s going on in the world amongst the troops themselves and it’s a recipe for disaster. I’m finding the Russian effort quite funny to be honest (obviously not the atrocity of war itself before anyone twists it) -  The Russian Bear is looking as scary as Yogi bear at the minute.

Some random thoughts:
The Ukrainian Leader is shown in a clip on the BBC today as their narrator for Paddington Bear.  It is very good.

The USA was very worried in 1962 about Russian missiles in Cuba.  There were not being delivered there for Nov the 5th.  Russian leaders are aggressive.  The USA is part of NATO, which is a mutually and protective defensive alliance.

The Russians have no reason to fear near NATO countries.  Although I can see why they are very uncomfortable with it, given their mindset.  They are powerful enough to look after themselves.

The Cuban missiles were only stopped when the USA agreed to remove their missiles from Turkey.  This concession was not made public at the time.

Russian leaders only respect strength and are paranoid that countries are out to get them.  Although they are now.  I saw a comment from a reporter yesterday that Russia never ever makes any concessions in negotiations.

Pictures in the papers today with a young Miss Ukraine holding an assault rifle, saying she is going to fight.  Good for her.

Nothing much changes.  I was in RAF Germany in the late 1970s at a big fighter base.  2 airmen were in front of the Station Commander for fighting in the NAAFI.  The CO had a reputation as a tough leader.  He sentenced the airmen to 28 days in a military detention centre saying “You are here to fight the Russians, not each other”.

The Army, the RAF and the Americans were in Germany as a significant deterrent to stop Russian invading into North West Europe.  This worked,  

Quoted from GollyGTFC

You have to ask what state the Russian military is actually in. They seem to be a bit like a lot of YouTube influencers. What they show you is amazing, but the reality is no where near what is suggested.

After all their military spending is only at the same level as the UK and about 1/12th of the USA.

After years of only fighting those who can’t realistically fight back they’re now fighting a live opponent and it ain’t easy.

I’m inclined to believe the Russian dead figure is high because everything is pointing to them being very poorly trained. Which is odd when you consider how long they were training a couple of miles from the Ukrainian border.

I had this discussion today and I do believe the frustrations of Putin being annoyed Becauee it’s taken longer than anticipated for Kyiv to fall…everyone share fighting against people that offer little back, suddenly when you’re up against, that lack of funding, training and development comes back to bite you on the bottom. It’s all well and good having a few massive blokes who will run through walls…sadly, bullets don’t care how big you are.

The support for the invasion is probably not as well supported in Russia as their propaganda is telling us…

It doesn’t matter so much whether the Russian defence budget is similar to that of the UK of that it’s GDP is on a par with Italy. It’s Purchasing Power Parity that counts.

If the casualty figures are correct (the two sides always under-report their own and over-report the enemy’s), it’s probably a feature of the ages old Russian military characteristic to disregard their own soldiers’ lives. Go charging in and bûgger the consequences. It also looks like sheer incompetence amongst the senior officers. They’ve had 8 years preparation. I know everyone that can, is firing at them. But do they really need to stick to the roads in dense columns?

The other thing, to Aldi’s point, is this is like the Winter War when ill-prepared, incompetent Soviets were initially given what for before eventually overwhelming the Finns. They were the most highly mechanised army at the time, with the biggest Air Force in the world, but allowed their columns to be cut up into chunks, and beaten piecemeal. Ironically one of the Soviet divisions wiped out were Ukrainians.

The worry is that the Russians may step up bombing as a way through the logjam.

I think that's the issue now. The Russians went in thinking it would be a relative stroll and haven't used artillery all that much before now. With resistance stronger than anticipated and losses higher, this will almost certainly change. Reports that they've started missile attacks on civilian areas are an indication of the way things are headed and things are likely to get very much worse from here on in.

Ukrainian pilots have began arriving in Poland to collect their jets. These jets may also be stationed within Poland which is a very bold move.

Quoted from jamesgtfc

Ukrainian pilots have began arriving in Poland to collect their jets. These jets may also be stationed within Poland which is a very bold move.

A potentially war-starting move. I can't see how they could get away with this without serious repercussions. There's a reason the Russians will have taken out all their airfields in the first attacks.

That said, the whole idea of 'donating' jets seems an odd one to me. Pilots would need to train in a particular type of aircraft to learn how to fly them, use all their weapon systems etc etc. How is this going to happen? They will have been flying Soviet aircraft (I expect). How would they be maintained without risking a wider conflict? Doesn't make sense.

Quoted from Maringer

A potentially war-starting move. I can't see how they could get away with this without serious repercussions. There's a reason the Russians will have taken out all their airfields in the first attacks.

That said, the whole idea of 'donating' jets seems an odd one to me. Pilots would need to train in a particular type of aircraft to learn how to fly them, use all their weapon systems etc etc. How is this going to happen? They will have been flying Soviet aircraft (I expect). How would they be maintained without risking a wider conflict? Doesn't make sense.

They’re the same aircraft types.

No way should they allow them to be based on Poland. Unless we are ready for Poland to be bombed.

Do the drones have capability to hit Russian airbases in Russia and Belarus?

Quoted from jamesgtfc

Ukrainian pilots have began arriving in Poland to collect their jets. These jets may also be stationed within Poland which is a very bold move.

Where has this been cited? As said above a big escalation if correct. As expected, Putin has escalated the missile bombardments following the failure to achieve a decisive quick victory with ground forces and started randomly throwing ordnance into civilian areas. The scary thing is that rationality is going out the window with Putin.  

Quoted from Maringer

A potentially war-starting move. I can't see how they could get away with this without serious repercussions. There's a reason the Russians will have taken out all their airfields in the first attacks.

That said, the whole idea of 'donating' jets seems an odd one to me. Pilots would need to train in a particular type of aircraft to learn how to fly them, use all their weapon systems etc etc. How is this going to happen? They will have been flying Soviet aircraft (I expect). How would they be maintained without risking a wider conflict? Doesn't make sense.

I suppose in some regard it gives Poland a bit more protection of their assets but it may make Putin launch an attack on Poland. I don't think he's likely to do that because he's struggling already.

European reliance on Russian fuel is a problem of our own making and it takes time to put right. I can't see Russia cutting that off though because it's quickly becoming one of their only revenue streams.

Quoted from jamesgtfc

Ukrainian pilots have began arriving in Poland to collect their jets. These jets may also be stationed within Poland which is a very bold move.

The Americans have  permanent strato tankers on the Romanian/Moldova borders which come from Mildenhall ( Flightradar 24 ), presumably to refuel fighter jets coming from somewhere?

Quoted from Limerick Mariner

Where has this been cited? As said above a big escalation if correct. As expected, Putin has escalated the missile bombardments following the failure to achieve a decisive quick victory with ground forces and started randomly throwing ordnance into civilian areas. The scary thing is that rationality is going out the window with Putin.  

I can’t make my mind up whether he was acting when he did the swivel-eyed speech last week, just to scare everyone into thinking he’s mad enough to launch nukes.

Quoted from Limerick Mariner

Where has this been cited? As said above a big escalation if correct. As expected, Putin has escalated the missile bombardments following the failure to achieve a decisive quick victory with ground forces and started randomly throwing ordnance into civilian areas. The scary thing is that rationality is going out the window with Putin.  

It was said live on BBC News earlier. They didn't confirm that the planes would be based out of Poland still but it's a maybe.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

I can’t make my mind up whether he was acting when he did the swivel-eyed speech last week, just to scare everyone into thinking he’s mad enough to launch nukes.

He's got 5900 of them according to an article I read although 1500 of them are old and scheduled to be "deconstructed to a point where they are no longer a threat." That is still 4400 of them though compared to our 250. The USA have 5000 odd. Very worrying numbers to say the least and despite the USA having 5000, it's still estimated that Russia have more nukes than NATO.

North Korea are thought to have 20 and Israel are thought to have 90.

I think the best thing we can hope for is that someone close to Putin assassinates him.

The jets in question would be Mig 29’s - they are operated by both Russia and Ukraine. I agree that if they were launched from Poland that would add a serious complication, although I don’t believe Putin would them attack Poland too. Waging war on 2 enemies simultaneously is never going to go well. I was thinking about that 40 mile convoy of vehicles moving slowly towards Kiev like sitting ducks that everyone now knows about. If Ukraine had any air power - say a squadron of A10 jets they would be easily obliterated and the threat neutralised. Obviously this isn’t going to happen any more than a ‘no fly zone’ is operable.

Slightly concerning to me is the amount of Russian heavy artillery and armoured vehicles that are being found abandoned around Ukraine. Understandably there are some with no ammunition or fuel but seeing more and more found fully stocked but with no personnel with them.  Hopefully they’ve deserted and gone back to Russia but if not - where are they? Posing as refugees? Becoming sabateurs? Fleeing something more serious on the horizon…?

Re the convoy there was long lines of it tightly packed which would look like porn to a bomber or drone pilot. It’s either more incompetence from Russia or a trap.

Quoted from LH

Re the convoy there was long lines of it tightly packed which would look like porn to a bomber or drone pilot. It’s either more incompetence from Russia or a trap.

I know. Visions of the Germans at Falaise or the Iraqi columns in the 91 Gulf War.

Quoted from LH

Re the convoy there was long lines of it tightly packed which would look like porn to a bomber or drone pilot. It’s either more incompetence from Russia or a trap.

Ukraine have a very small air force so their jets have to be used a bit more sparingly but they are sitting ducks. For me, the Russian intention is clear, they continued hitting Ukraine hard during "negotiations" which shows they have no intention of backing down.

Quoted from jamesgtfc

He's got 5900 of them according to an article I read although 1500 of them are old and scheduled to be "deconstructed to a point where they are no longer a threat." That is still 4400 of them though compared to our 250. The USA have 5000 odd. Very worrying numbers to say the least and despite the USA having 5000, it's still estimated that Russia have more nukes than NATO.

North Korea are thought to have 20 and Israel are thought to have 90.

I think the best thing we can hope for is that someone close to Putin assassinates him.

Take any numbers quoted for nuclear weapons with a big pinch of salt as they are red herrings to some degree. They are always being renewed and refreshed (a bit more than a 'full service') because the electronics and chemical detonators degrade due to the radiation emitted by the fissile material. I think the fissile material needs to be replaced from time to time as well, due to the reactions going on within it. It's why, despite the disarmament claims, the militaries of nuclear powers still have their reactors running to produce more of the stuff.

All that needs to be known is that both sides have enough active weapons to severely intercourse each other (and the rest of the world) over without trying too hard.

If it escalates into nuclear exchanges, we're copulated. You'd just have to hope that Putin isn't stupid enough to use them or that one of his flunkies is sensible enough to take him out if he orders it. Who knows what he's thinking about here, though? It all seems quite nonsensical.

Even Apple are pulling out of Russia.

FIFA. Shell. BP.

Yet the big four accounting firms (EY, KPMG, Deloitte, PwC) continue to operate in Russia, laundering money and generally greasing around the place like a slimy brand of tax avoiding discharge.

Are they being held back as insurance against western intervention? Or to minimise ‘collateral damage’ thinking they were just going to march in to a rapturous welcome? Or even a ‘we’re not having that’ attitude, ‘we’ll bomb Islamists but not our brothers’.

https://apple.news/A_dEGuHk9RwKjgsKSPq7WXw

Quoted from jamesgtfc

It was said live on BBC News earlier. They didn't confirm that the planes would be based out of Poland still but it's a maybe.

I would take anything the BBC take with a pinch of salt!
On Frida the BBC broadcast a video it claimed was of the Russian invasion of Ukraine showing Russian planes over Kiev. The video was old footage of Ukrainian planes flying over Moscow as part of a military parade. The BBC tried to claim this was shown in error – but former BBC journalists have said such an error would be ‘near-impossible’, as old footage would have to be specifically requested from the BBC’s archive

Quoted from jamesgtfc

He's got 5900 of them according to an article I read although 1500 of them are old and scheduled to be "deconstructed to a point where they are no longer a threat." That is still 4400 of them though compared to our 250. The USA have 5000 odd. Very worrying numbers to say the least and despite the USA having 5000, it's still estimated that Russia have more nukes than NATO.

North Korea are thought to have 20 and Israel are thought to have 90.

I think the best thing we can hope for is that someone close to Putin assassinates him.

Military numbers are always downplayed, I know someone in the RAF who says we have far more fighter jets at the ready than will ever be reported, with many out in Cyprus ready to attack if needed.

just a couple of points.Whilst the near 6000 Russians killed may be an over exaggeration, it looks pretty obvious from slightly more neutral sources that several thousand have been killed in the first week.
That is awful losses when you compare it to the 15,000 Russian soldiers lost in 9 years in Afghan, the 8000 lost in the 9 months of the first war in Chechen and the several thousand killed in the 3 month first battle of Grozny.
Incidentally the analysis here  https://web.archive.org/web/20110927074010/http://www.bdcol.ee/fileadmin/docs/bdreview/07bdr299.pdf   makes fascinating reading. plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose springs to mind
There are some very interesting to people to follow on Twitter, not least the Institute for the Study of War who do a nightly map and summary of how the war is going. But what is amazing is the various 'armchair experts' who have come together to cover the war and add their insights. There are people who are experts in military vehicles, in munitions and in the Russian Army. You can then add in those to track aircraft flights. GPS people who can narrow down where events actually happened and most mazingly of all the radio hams. Unbelievably the Russians are using cheap Chinese walkie talkies to communicate - the hams can listen in and also disrupt their military communications
The list of lost Russian equipment collated by Oryx is staggering. they have excrement logistics, excrement fuel supply, excrement equipment, excrement food (pictures of rations with a best before date of 2015!) and it seems pretty excrement leadership who have just let young conscripts blunder into a war they knew nothing about

ps forgot to add the mapmakers! https://twitter.com/Nrg8000/status/1499048268512493568  a really good animated map showing Russian progress (or lack of) in the first 7 days. 2 things to note .Captured battle plans suggest that the Russians were planning on taking 15 days to do the job and that in most instances the Russians are commanding the main roads and small towns but very little else (presumably good news for the Ukrainians if they do have to pull back in order to prevent being encircled)

i am beginning to wonder whether Putin has made a massive mistake here and is being 'let down' by the inefficiency, the corruption endemic in their armed forces, and the bloody poor quality of their troops and equipemnt

This backs up some of your point Forza. The very sad reality of war that Kieran Maguire tweeted about this morning.

Quoted from Humbercod

Any War yet you gullible liberals 😂
Even Ukraine asking the West to stop trying to predict war dates! It’s almost as if the West powers want a war…. I wonder why 🤔  

This has aged well....

I’m prepared to admit I got it wrong when I was sceptical about the Russian build up. I doubt Humbocodswallop would do anything of the sort though.

I see the Glorious Liberator of Ukraine is locking up kids now for protesting against the war. Can’t let these things get out of hand now or they will grow up to be dangerous Fascistic-Traitor-Bidenites.

Quoted from Humbercod

Military numbers are always downplayed, I know someone in the RAF who says we have far more fighter jets at the ready than will ever be reported, with many out in Cyprus ready to attack if needed.

Your mates talking excrement.

Quoted from LH

Your mates talking excrement.

They have something in common then.

Quoted from toontown

This has aged well....

What did I say …almost as if the West wants a war… especially if you’re an Arms manufacturer! Lockheed Martin share price on the rise as the rest of the Market’s tank.

Il not take any shame in being the only voice on here calling for de- escalation in the hope no matter how faint for the invasion being called off. I don’t want our children growing through WW3 it’s that simple and besides this is is the same Western military we eventually find out that has deceived us on just about every single war in modern history.
This child murdering evil illegitimate is not going to stop without some kind of result I fear, so I think the Ukraine’s will have to do some kind of a deal with him or suffer a hell of a lot more bloodshed, and at this point I think NATO will have to respond.

Quoted from LH

Your mates talking excrement.

Do you actually have any perspective on this LH or are you just one of the playground bullies sticking the boot in?

Which part is he talking excrement?

RAF numbers - it’s pretty obvious unless you’re a complete idiot that an Air Force wouldn’t reveal its true numbers in battle, this was exemplified during the Battle of Britain when the Luftwaffe intelligence reports underestimated the British fighter forces.
Or
Based in Cyprus - https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/britain-deploying-more-fighters-to-cyprus-amid-russia-tensions/

Only thing sadder then a bully is a keyboard bully.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

They have something in common then.

Didn’t mummy ever tell you …if you’ve not got anything intelligent to add to a grown up debate, then best keep it shut.

Quoted from Humbercod

Do you actually have any perspective on this LH or are you just one of the playground bullies sticking the boot in?

Which part is he talking excrement?

RAF numbers - it’s pretty obvious unless you’re a complete idiot that an Air Force wouldn’t reveal its true numbers in battle, this was exemplified during the Battle of Britain when the Luftwaffe intelligence reports underestimated the British fighter forces.
Or
Based in Cyprus - https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/britain-deploying-more-fighters-to-cyprus-amid-russia-tensions/

Only thing sadder then a bully is a keyboard bully.

I work on them.

Quoted from LH

I work on them.

Yes but you only work on a few of them. They've got others that you're not allowed to know about but Humbercod does.

Governments have fudged figures since the dawn of time, just look at the last two years…they’ll be doing it now. I’ve said it already, one of the saddest parts of all this is the fake videos, wrong videos and obvious tinkering with numbers etc…takes away from the fact it’s a flipping outrage and innocent folk are dying…

Quoted from Humbercod

What did I say …almost as if the West wants a war… especially if you’re an Arms manufacturer! Lockheed Martin share price on the rise as the rest of the Market’s tank.

What you said was if people thought there was going to be a war they were gullible...

I think you and the other putin apologists have been exposed as the gullible ones, of course people such as yourself could never admit that.

Now the brave Militia are arresting the ring leaders of the attempted Putsch on the streets of Holy Russia. This is the sort of dangerous fiend those children would grow into if not removed from the streets and sent for re-education.

God in Heaven smiles upon their works.

Quoted from Humbercod

What did I say …almost as if the West wants a war… especially if you’re an Arms manufacturer! Lockheed Martin share price on the rise as the rest of the Market’s tank.

Il not take any shame in being the only voice on here calling for de- escalation in the hope no matter how faint for the invasion being called off. I don’t want our children growing through WW3 it’s that simple and besides this is is the same Western military we eventually find out that has deceived us on just about every single war in modern history.
This child murdering evil illegitimate is not going to stop without some kind of result I fear, so I think the Ukraine’s will have to do some kind of a deal with him or suffer a hell of a lot more bloodshed, and at this point I think NATO will have to respond.

Still full of bullshit then. You’re a fake. You weren’t calling for de-escalation.  You were excusing the aggressor. The only way to de-escalate was for the Russians to stand down. Not something you were saying last week. Now Putin (I assume you mean Putin) is a “child murdering evil illegitimate”.

You implied you were in the armed forces. Are you now going on record as saying you were deceived by “same Western military we eventually find out that has deceived us on just about every single war in modern history”? Are you telling us you joined up to bring justice to the world but your willingness to serve was exploited?

Quoted from Humbercod

Didn’t mummy ever tell you …if you’ve not got anything intelligent to add to a grown up debate, then best keep it shut.

Did Steve Bannon tell you to say that? Pathetic.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Did Steve Bannon tell you to say that? Pathetic.

Golly you only  believe what the BBC tell you!

Please get some perspective, do yourself a favour and watch the following documentary by Oliver Stone, and you will at least learn there are two sides to a story -

https://www.bitchute.com/video/LySjT5Jxn0Jt/

Quoted from LH

I work on them.

That’s fine LH that’s all you had to say instead of the shitty message.I will get back to you on this once I’ve spoken to my friend who’s partner is currently serving in Cyprus.

Quoted from toontown

What you said was if people thought there was going to be a war they were gullible...

I think you and the other putin apologists have been exposed as the gullible ones, of course people such as yourself could never admit that.

You’re a buffoon! 20 years ago you’d be calling me a Saddam apologists.

West are the good guys, but Orange man is bad, Ukraine is a democratic country 😂

Quoted from Humbercod

Golly you only  believe what the BBC tell you!

Please get some perspective, do yourself a favour and watch the following documentary by Oliver Stone, and you will at least learn there are two sides to a story -

https://www.bitchute.com/video/LySjT5Jxn0Jt/

I generally don’t watch BBC news output, but not because I don’t trust it or because I think it’s biased. I just prefer Sky News. Radio wise I do listen to 5 Live but not as much as LBC/LBC News.

Anyway, two sides to every story…

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/bbc-tim-davie-ukraine-english-russia-b2027157.html

The BBC is the envy of the world. Especially in countries where the press is totally controlled by the government.

I’m not going to watch that documentary/propaganda film, but thanks for trying to recruit me.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

I generally don’t watch BBC news output, but not because I don’t trust it or because I think it’s biased. I just prefer Sky News. Radio wise I do listen to 5 Live but not as much as LBC/LBC News.

Anyway, two sides to every story…

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/bbc-tim-davie-ukraine-english-russia-b2027157.html

The BBC is the envy of the world. Especially in countries where the press is totally controlled by the government.

I’m not going to watch that documentary/propaganda film, but thanks for trying to recruit me.

And this is the problem!
I would read your article because I’m not ignorant if it wasn’t behind a paywall!

I watch sky, GB news, Al Jazeera TV, RT news, I have Reuters news app on my phone which I access quite often, as well as various social media news outlets.

BBC is not even the envy of the Uk many people are rightly ditching their licenses with one of the reasons being the constant government bias, Wokery, Brexit, Corana or the green agenda they remain anything but impartial.

So now the award winning Oliver Stone famed for not being afraid to cover the truth is now a Right Wing black shirt Putin apologist! Come on your not that daft Golly, at least watch the video objectively and then feel free to have a go.

You will probably find that the vast majority of the UK population who are paying the BBC licence fee don't care either way about left, right, woke, gammon or even take the news in. They just want to watch their staple stuff like Match Of The Day, Eastenders, Strictly Come Dancing etc and get on with their lives.

The 'culture wars' are pretty much exclusive to minority batshit internet people and the tory party.

Quoted from Manchester Mariner

You will probably find that the vast majority of the UK population who are paying the BBC licence fee don't care either way about left, right, woke, gammon or even take the news in. They just want to watch their staple stuff like Match Of The Day, Eastenders, Strictly Come Dancing etc and get on with their lives.

The 'culture wars' are pretty much exclusive to minority batshit internet people and the tory party.

As you are aware the “culture war” is an imaginary war concocted by right wing press to distract those who believe it from the real issues in this country.

Quoted from Humbercod

And this is the problem!
I would read your article because I’m not ignorant if it wasn’t behind a paywall!

I watch sky, GB news, Al Jazeera TV, RT news, I have Reuters news app on my phone which I access quite often, as well as various social media news outlets.

BBC is not even the envy of the Uk many people are rightly ditching their licenses with one of the reasons being the constant government bias, Wokery, Brexit, Corana or the green agenda they remain anything but impartial.

So now the award winning Oliver Stone famed for not being afraid to cover the truth is now a Right Wing black shirt Putin apologist! Come on your not that daft Golly, at least watch the video objectively and then feel free to have a go.

Oliver Stone is a long-term conspiracy theorist. Whilst I watched JFK and enjoyed the story, I know it’s generally a load of b*ll*cks and not based on facts. I have no desire to watch a documentary done by someone like him and with his track record.

Anyway, I’m weeks behind on Dogs Behaving (Very) Badly, the Dog House & Paul O’Grady’s for the Love of Dogs. So I couldn’t find the time to watch it even if I was interested in what Oliver Stone is preaching.

Quoted from Humbercod

You’re a buffoon! 20 years ago you’d be calling me a Saddam apologists.

West are the good guys, but Orange man is bad, Ukraine is a democratic country 😂

So, like I said, you were claiming that anyone who thought Russia would invade ukraine was gullible. You've been proven wrong and are lashing out, angrily trying to change the point. You're unable to accept being proven wrong in the most demonstrable fashion (Russia has indeed invaded ukraine, not even you are attempting to deny that) and so your embarrassed. A better thing to do might be to take a deep breath and think about why your so angry at people (not me, I wasn't posting earlier) for simply having more accurate views of future events than yours turned out to be.
Anyway good night.

Britain invaded another country illegally. 1 million people in the streets of London protesting. Zero arrests for ‘betrayal of the country’. State broadcaster calls it a war.

Compare with Russia now. Tells you all you need to know.

Quoted from toontown

So, like I said, you were claiming that anyone who thought Russia would invade ukraine was gullible. You've been proven wrong and are lashing out, angrily trying to change the point. You're unable to accept being proven wrong in the most demonstrable fashion (Russia has indeed invaded ukraine, not even you are attempting to deny that) and so your embarrassed. A better thing to do might be to take a deep breath and think about why your so angry at people (not me, I wasn't posting earlier) for simply having more accurate views of future events than yours turned out to be.
Anyway good night.

If we’re being honest I’ve been proven right a hell of a lot more times than wrong on this echo chamber, and I’m more than happy to be proven wrong (no shame in that) but not this time! I was almost praying I was correct on this but still If it makes you happy and you’re sleeping well than that’s what really matters it.

I called you a sharp object only in response to your silly Putin apologist comment, hardly lashing out!
Good Morning.

BBC/News Sky news headlines Russian attack on nuclear power plant. Elevated radiation levels are being detected around the Nuclear plant.

RT news/ReutersNews/AP News - A fire broke out in a training building at the largest nuclear power plant in Europe during intense fighting between Russian and Ukrainian forces, Ukraine's state emergency service said on Friday. U.S. Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm said there was no indication of elevated radiation levels at the Zaporizhzhia plant.

Very concerning no matter what but who do we trust 🤔

Quoted from Humbercod

BBC/News Sky news headlines Russian attack on nuclear power plant. Elevated radiation levels are being detected around the Nuclear plant.

RT news/ReutersNews/AP News - A fire broke out in a training building at the largest nuclear power plant in Europe during intense fighting between Russian and Ukrainian forces, Ukraine's state emergency service said on Friday. U.S. Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm said there was no indication of elevated radiation levels at the Zaporizhzhia plant.

Very concerning no matter what but who do we trust 🤔

BBC and Sky both reported the story quoting an Associated Press source. They didn’t report it as definitive fact. That is how news works at all reputable outlets. So you praising the source of BBC & Sky’s report and criticising them both is bizarre and indicates a lack of open mindedness on your part. You’ve made your mind up on the BBC & Sky. Which is strange because that’s exactly the thing you accuse the BBC of.

Coincidentally this sort of thing is straight out of the Putin playbook. Accuse your enemy of doing what you are doing yourself.

By the way, I hope Sky removing RT hasn’t affected your ability to see state dictated news from Russia too much.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

BBC and Sky both reported the story quoting an Associated Press source. They didn’t report it as definitive fact. That is how news works at all reputable outlets. So you praising the source of BBC & Sky’s report and criticising them both is bizarre and indicates a lack of open mindedness on your part. You’ve made your mind up on the BBC & Sky. Which is strange because that’s exactly the thing you accuse the BBC of.

Coincidentally this sort of thing is straight out of the Putin playbook. Accuse your enemy of doing what you are doing yourself.

By the way, I hope Sky removing RT hasn’t affected your ability to see state dictated news from Russia too much.

Only problem is BBC now banned in Russia, so Russians don’t get access to the the other side, censorship serves nobody.

Quoted from Humbercod

If we’re being honest I’ve been proven right a hell of a lot more times than wrong on this echo chamber, and I’m more than happy to be proven wrong (no shame in that) but not this time! I was almost praying I was correct on this but still If it makes you happy and you’re sleeping well than that’s what really matters it.

I called you a sharp object only in response to your silly Putin apologist comment, hardly lashing out!
Good Morning.

😂😂😂😂

Do remind us of a time when you’ve been right about anything…
Or at best, where you’ve constructed a balanced, lucid and compelling argument about anything at all.

Or, to give you a sporting chance, give us an example of one of those EU laws we had to abide by that we no longer have to obey.

Did you note that world immigration into the Uk is up since brexit ?
Taken back control there.

Humbocod is just a fascist apologist. He’s one of those people who subscribe to every conspiracy theory* going. He comes out with every page from the Putinist-fascist playbook. They all do. I’ve seen the same sort of garbage so many spouted all over the bottom of the internet. His problem is once he loses his rag, and tries to ad lib he’s all over the place. Like that other fascist poster who was banned from the Fishy. What was his name now?

* though to call them theories is very flattering.

I've gone down a couple of rabbit holes and I'm not stupid enough to think we are told the whole truth but it's a damn site better than what some countries put out. North Korea cut coverage of their game against Portugal and the rest of the World Cup when they went 4-0 down.

Putin has now prevented his residents going on Facebook. Take the atrocities from WWII, nobody talks about some of the brutal things we did elsewhere in the world to keep our forces stocked up on oil. Nobody seems to be talking about some of the other conflicts currently going on in the world too.

He banned Facebook? It’s not the worst idea he’s had…

Quoted from LH

He banned Facebook? It’s not the worst idea he’s had…

And Twitter too: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/04/russia-completely-blocks-access-to-facebook-and-twitter

Here’s a damned good analysis from 4 years ago. It’s a bit long and you have to read a lot (unless your Finnish is good). Beyond your average Putin apologists attention span, although I know one who would get through it (not Humbo obvs). You might recognise many of the traits.

Quoted from jamesgtfc

I've gone down a couple of rabbit holes and I'm not stupid enough to think we are told the whole truth but it's a damn site better than what some countries put out. North Korea cut coverage of their game against Portugal and the rest of the World Cup when they went 4-0 down.

Putin has now prevented his residents going on Facebook. Take the atrocities from WWII, nobody talks about some of the brutal things we did elsewhere in the world to keep our forces stocked up on oil. Nobody seems to be talking about some of the other conflicts currently going on in the world too.

Maybe so James. These are usually raised as part of the usual ‘whataboutism’ distraction technique. We shouldn’t ignore them, but we must remember that the purpose they are put to at times like now is to sow doubt and cause delay. The fact we went to war on 2003 over what appear to be a tissue of lies doesn’t excuse Russia from invading Ukraine. Because I slapped someone at school doesn’t mean someone who saw it is justified in slapping someone else.

The other thing to remember is a million people marched in London against that war. Hardly any arrests and certainly none for ‘treason’. The media here called the invasion of Iraq a ‘war’ without fear of sanction by the government.

Churchill was an arsejole but he was right about the Nazis.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Maybe so James. These are usually raised as part of the usual ‘whataboutism’ distraction technique. We shouldn’t ignore them, but we must remember that the purpose they are put to at times like now is to sow doubt and cause delay. The fact we went to war on 2003 over what appear to be a tissue of lies doesn’t excuse Russia from invading Ukraine. Because I slapped someone at school doesn’t mean someone who saw it is justified in slapping someone else.

The other thing to remember is a million people marched in London against that war. Hardly any arrests and certainly none for ‘treason’. The media here called the invasion of Iraq a ‘war’ without fear of sanction by the government.

Churchill was an arsejole but he was right about the Nazis.

Call Blair, Cameron, Johnson, Arseholes but to openly slate the greatest PM in our history, a war hero, a national treasure just shows how out of touch you are with the rest of the UK in that excrement hole Ruski owned London bubble.

It’s been well documented that Churchill got many things wrong but many of the big decisions he got spot on, one of them not often mentioned was the attack on Mers-el-Kébir this was a brave decision that took guts probably changed the outcome of the war and showed amazing leadership. Can you imagine someone like Keir Starmer having to make that decision he would flipping melt.

Have to say though getting back to the present day Boris Johnston has stepped up a gear and is now looking like a leader in fact he’s looking like the leader of the free world if we’re honest with sleepy Joe nowhere to be seen.

Just to slightly correct you and I’m sure you agree we didn’t go to war in in 2003! The correct term is that we invaded and occupied yet another sovereign Country killing thousands of innocent people, as the Iraq’s fought to defend their country, Based totally as you say on a tissue of lies.
It’s ok when we do it!

Quoted from Humbercod

Call Blair, Cameron, Johnson, Arseholes but to openly slate the greatest PM in our history, a war hero, a national treasure just shows how out of touch you are with the rest of the UK in that excrement hole Ruski owned London bubble.

It’s been well documented that Churchill got many things wrong but many of the big decisions he got spot on, one of them not often mentioned was the attack on Mers-el-Kébir this was a brave decision that took guts probably changed the outcome of the war and showed amazing leadership. Can you imagine someone like Keir Starmer having to make that decision he would flipping melt.

Have to say though getting back to the present day Boris Johnston has stepped up a gear and is now looking like a leader in fact he’s looking like the leader of the free world if we’re honest with sleepy Joe nowhere to be seen.

Just to slightly correct you and I’m sure you agree we didn’t go to war in in 2003! The correct term is that we invaded and occupied yet another sovereign Country killing thousands of innocent people, as the Iraq’s fought to defend their country, Based totally as you say on a tissue of lies.
It’s ok when we do it!

Have you seen how we rank in terms of Russian sanctions?

Quoted from Humbercod

Call Blair, Cameron, Johnson, Arseholes but to openly slate the greatest PM in our history, a war hero, a national treasure just shows how out of touch you are with the rest of the UK in that excrement hole Ruski owned London bubble.

It’s been well documented that Churchill got many things wrong but many of the big decisions he got spot on, one of them not often mentioned was the attack on Mers-el-Kébir this was a brave decision that took guts probably changed the outcome of the war and showed amazing leadership. Can you imagine someone like Keir Starmer having to make that decision he would flipping melt.

Have to say though getting back to the present day Boris Johnston has stepped up a gear and is now looking like a leader in fact he’s looking like the leader of the free world if we’re honest with sleepy Joe nowhere to be seen.

Just to slightly correct you and I’m sure you agree we didn’t go to war in in 2003! The correct term is that we invaded and occupied yet another sovereign Country killing thousands of innocent people, as the Iraq’s fought to defend their country, Based totally as you say on a tissue of lies.
It’s ok when we do it!

Your expectations of what good leadership looks like must be extremely low…

Some of the coverage is really heart rending now, men waving off wives and children on the trains to Poland and being handed just a Kalashnikov to defend besieged cities. It's quite distressing that we can't do more to help these incredibly brave people.

One question I have is why aren't UK, France and the US shipping loads of drones to Western Ukraine? https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/in-fight-against-russia-ukraine-s-drones-capabilities-are-effective-but-limited-1.10647920

Losses will be heavy because of Russia's air defence systems but their conveys are sitting ducks for the ones that do get though.

Quoted from Limerick Mariner

Some of the coverage is really heart rending now, men waving off wives and children on the trains to Poland and being handed just a Kalashnikov to defend besieged cities. It's quite distressing that we can't do more to help these incredibly brave people.

One question I have is why aren't UK, France and the US shipping loads of drones to Western Ukraine? https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/in-fight-against-russia-ukraine-s-drones-capabilities-are-effective-but-limited-1.10647920

Losses will be heavy because of Russia's air defence systems but their conveys are sitting ducks for the ones that do get though.

Heartbreaking the world has some evil monsters.
I did wonder myself why they couldn’t just hit the Russian convoy that was stationary for days.

Quoted from aldi_01

Your expectations of what good leadership looks like must be extremely low…

In terms of world leaders it’s a low bar to be fair.

Quoted from Humbercod

Heartbreaking the world has some evil monsters.
I did wonder myself why they couldn’t just hit the Russian convoy that was stationary for days.

FAO Humbercod
your last query is not necessarily an urban myth ,but things get overlooked - they have in fact hit the front of the convoy and blown up  a bridge in front of them (which incidentally is not 40 miles, but 17 miles long - another fact overlooked)
the russians can't got round them very easily due to the traffic jam and the mud (Rasputista as it's called) and so they can't get supplies to fed or fuel the hundreds of vehicles which are burning through batteries and fuel as they sit idling for days on end in the sub zero temperatures. Obviously for the same reasons they can't get wreckers to the front to clear the blocakge. The convoy is well protected ,so why waste manpower, drones, planes and ammo on a convoy which is stuck? The only way for the convoy is to go backwards first of all

FAO Limerick - the Turks have just flown in a fresh supply of Bayraktars and they are already using other drones for reconaisance.
Loads of Manpads, Javelins & NLAWS going in - Ukrainians reporting that they've hit 280 targets in 300 firings - amazing accuracy. That's quite believable as the ill trained Afghans managed 73% with Stingers against the Russians long long ago

PS overlooked stories of the day - Ukrainians have pushed back a Russian division to the border from around Kharkiv and destroyed/ neutralised a whole division (1600 men )
Locals reporting that Russians ave pulled back to outskirts of Kherson
Ukrainians claiming approx 10,000 Russian losses (that includes dead, wounded and captured) that's an incredible rate

Quoted from Humbercod

Heartbreaking the world has some evil monsters.
I did wonder myself why they couldn’t just hit the Russian convoy that was stationary for days.

Lots of vehicles = lots of troops. Ukraine don’t have enough air capability to clean it out in one attack either and they can’t send in ground troops to within two miles to Javelin/NLAW and risk losing them.

Quoted from forza ivano

FAO Humbercod

Tweet 1499789544757026822 will appear here...

your last query is not necessarily an urban myth ,but things get overlooked - they have in fact hit the front of the convoy and blown up  a bridge in front of them (which incidentally is not 40 miles, but 17 miles long - another fact overlooked)
the russians can't got round them very easily due to the traffic jam and the mud (Rasputista as it's called) and so they can't get supplies to fed or fuel the hundreds of vehicles which are burning through batteries and fuel as they sit idling for days on end in the sub zero temperatures. Obviously for the same reasons they can't get wreckers to the front to clear the blocakge. The convoy is well protected ,so why waste manpower, drones, planes and ammo on a convoy which is stuck? The only way for the convoy is to go backwards first of all

FAO Limerick - the Turks have just flown in a fresh supply of Bayraktars and they are already using other drones for reconaisance.
Loads of Manpads, Javelins & NLAWS going in - Ukrainians reporting that they've hit 280 targets in 300 firings - amazing accuracy. That's quite believable as the ill trained Afghans managed 73% with Stingers against the Russians long long ago

PS overlooked stories of the day - Ukrainians have pushed back a Russian division to the border from around Kharkiv and destroyed/ neutralised a whole division (1600 men )
Locals reporting that Russians ave pulled back to outskirts of Kherson
Ukrainians claiming approx 10,000 Russian losses (that includes dead, wounded and captured) that's an incredible rate

That's great news - just read a story about the Ukrainians using some DIY drones carrying 3kg bombs. Not going to destroy a tank but will be enough to take out logistics vehicles. If they can just hang in there maybe more frontline Russians will refuse to fight and follow orders to kill their neighbours with no explanation as to why...however Putin is now in the mode where he'd probably punish the families of squaddies who did that.

Quoted from Limerick Mariner

That's great news - just read a story about the Ukrainians using some DIY drones carrying 3kg bombs. Not going to destroy a tank but will be enough to take out logistics vehicles. If they can just hang in there maybe more frontline Russians will refuse to fight and follow orders to kill their neighbours with no explanation as to why...however Putin is now in the mode where he'd probably punish the families of squaddies who did that.

the longer and harder they make it the better the chance of saving some of their country
my best guess is that we will end up with a version of East and West Germany. East becoming a Belorusian type puppet state and the west ,centred around Lviv, immediately entering the EU but having a neutral state like Sweden/Finland

PS very interesting point made elsewhere - the only real winners out of this are the Chinese both economically & militarily . They can now put any pressure they want on Russia in the far East and know full well that the Russians arent a threat

Quoted from forza ivano

the longer and harder they make it the better the chance of saving some of their country
my best guess is that we will end up with a version of East and West Germany. East becoming a Belorusian type puppet state and the west ,centred around Lviv, immediately entering the EU but having a neutral state like Sweden/Finland

PS very interesting point made elsewhere - the only real winners out of this are the Chinese both economically & militarily . They can now put any pressure they want on Russia in the far East and know full well that the Russians arent a threat

I've seen East and West mentioned a few times now and it's essentially how Germany ended up until the wall came down. I think this will be Putin's compromise because controlling Western border states including Odessa represents a huge risk of aggravating a NATO member.

Quoted from forza ivano

FAO Humbercod

Tweet 1499789544757026822 will appear here...

The Foreign Commonwealth and Development Office have put out the following tweet in response to the Bloomberg reported graph  -
Bloomberg tweet is incorrect, they’ve subsequently apologised and taken down the graphs. UK has sanctioned 228 individuals, entities & subsidiaries since invasion.

There are so many different entities and agendas at play it’s so hard to trust the Media. Even the above tweet cannot be trusted as far as I’m concerned my post is only to show balance.


If you don’t read the newspaper you are uninformed
If you read the newspaper you are misinformed

Mark twain

Sky news headline on the app asks this morning - Has WW3 already started…FFS!
Is this really necessary for people to be waking up to or am I just being naive?
Just the other day I woke up to their headlines with ‘Russian attack nuclear plant’ and I’ll admit that worried me until I checked other news sources, later that morning an old lady was interviews in GB news and they asked her how she felt about the Ukraine conflict, and she answered ‘I’m really scared at the minute with the Russians attacking a nuclear reactor! Totally irresponsible from Sky but I suppose it keeps their viewing figures up.

I notice it’s all gone quite now on the nuclear plant story, but not on the Russian side RT news reporting the Russian are still fuming and insist it was the Ukraine’s that caused the fire as a false flag, which would tie in with Zelenskyy going straight onto the media demanding for NATO to now get involved with a no fly zone etc.
Feel free to shoot me down but I honestly don’t know who to believe I think the truth will be a long time coming.

Quoted from Humbercod

Sky news headline on the app asks this morning - Has WW3 already started…FFS!
Is this really necessary for people to be waking up to or am I just being naive?
Just the other day I woke up to their headlines with ‘Russian attack nuclear plant’ and I’ll admit that worried me until I checked other news sources, later that morning an old lady was interviews in GB news and they asked her how she felt about the Ukraine conflict, and she answered ‘I’m really scared at the minute with the Russians attacking a nuclear reactor! Totally irresponsible from Sky but I suppose it keeps their viewing figures up.

I notice it’s all gone quite now on the nuclear plant story, but not on the Russian side RT news reporting the Russian are still fuming and insist it was the Ukraine’s that caused the fire as a false flag, which would tie in with Zelenskyy going straight onto the media demanding for NATO to now get involved with a no fly zone etc.
Feel free to shoot me down but I honestly don’t know who to believe I think the truth will be a long time coming.

They say that the first casualty of war is the truth,  there is little doubt that both sides have completely differing versions of events. Most people believe what their own government and press tell them, we are trained for this from birth.  There can be little doubt however that that Russia has invaded another country and as usual in any war many civilians are being killed.  It matters little who set a fire near a nuclear reactor, one side has invaded another country and seized it, endangering all, the Ukranians could have shut it down or sabotaged it.  The UK  government talks a good war but in practice had done little in terms of sanctions on Putin's mates,  the Tories have been reliant on Russian money for a while( there is little doubt why they would not publish the report into Russian money and influence) and are paying these oligarchs back by giving them time to sell their UK assets, that Ambrovich will be allowed to sell Chelsea for up to £3 billion is a joke. Let's get serious and seize the lot of we really want sanctions to bite.
The Ukranian resistance has been a surprise and Putin looks like he is stuck in an unpopular war from which there seems no easy exit strategy. This highlights again the folly of invading a country that does not want you, our costly and ultimately humiliating defeats in Afghanistan and Iraq are good recent examples. Even if Russia manage to take all Ukraine the destruction and hatred they have sown will mean years of conflict, possible bombs in Moscow and other Russian cities and years of international sanctions.
This war is pushing states like Finland and Sweden into NATO and will see a return to isolation and poorer living standards in Russia.
This war is also showing the limitations of tanks and other armoured equipment, they are last centuries war technology and armies around the world will be taking note, even helicopters are now extremely vulnerable to just one man with a launcher. Satellites and drones have taken the element of surprise out of many operations along with spyware and communication hacking. The Russians have the force and manpower to take Ukraine but holding it will be very difficult especially with weapons pouring in from the West at the current rate. Every arms manufacturer wants their latest stuff in there showing what it can do

Quoted from Humbercod

Sky news headline on the app asks this morning - Has WW3 already started…FFS!
Is this really necessary for people to be waking up to or am I just being naive?
Just the other day I woke up to their headlines with ‘Russian attack nuclear plant’ and I’ll admit that worried me until I checked other news sources, later that morning an old lady was interviews in GB news and they asked her how she felt about the Ukraine conflict, and she answered ‘I’m really scared at the minute with the Russians attacking a nuclear reactor! Totally irresponsible from Sky but I suppose it keeps their viewing figures up.

I notice it’s all gone quite now on the nuclear plant story, but not on the Russian side RT news reporting the Russian are still fuming and insist it was the Ukraine’s that caused the fire as a false flag, which would tie in with Zelenskyy going straight onto the media demanding for NATO to now get involved with a no fly zone etc.
Feel free to shoot me down but I honestly don’t know who to believe I think the truth will be a long time coming.

And who wouldn't believe the Russians? After all, they repeatedly told us they were definitely not going to invade Ukraine at any point so they're clearly trustworthy and we can take everything they say at face value. .

Quoted from mariner91

And who wouldn't believe the Russians? After all, they repeatedly told us they were definitely not going to invade Ukraine at any point so they're clearly trustworthy and we can take everything they say at face value. .

It's a peace keeping mission isn't it?

Absolutely we can’t trust the Russians but as Codcheeky says the first casualty of war is the truth, and yes we know for certain the Russians have invaded. We can all agree that there is absolutely no sensible justification for this invasion and most of the world are outraged.

Nearly 2 weeks of Russian bombing allegedly attacking civilians area and yet thankfully only 360 civilian deaths reported which is obviously 360 to many, but to put in to context the Ukraine army have been indiscriminately attacking eastern Ukraine with a UN reported 2500 civilian deaths, 5,500 injured including 170 children killed or injured through land mines alone, and no outrage or world condemnation that I recall from the media and especially on here.
Even going back to Iraq over 200,000 civilian casualties that’s a hell of a number when you think about it and no threat of WW3.

To try and get round the no fly zone but still provide further military support to Ukraine:

It was reported yesterday and today that the USA are trying to broker a deal whereby Poland lends or gives a number of their old fighter planes to Ukraine.  They are the same type that Ukraine already have so the pilots and ground crew would be familiar with them.

In return, Poland would get new, or nearly new, F16 fighter planes from the Yanks.

They haven’t worked out yet how the planes actually cross over into Ukraine without causing issues.

Everybody would probably gain if it all goes ahead.  Except the Russians.

(The story came from the American Secretary of State and was also reported in The Times today).

Quoted from TownSNAFU5

To try and get round the no fly zone but still provide further military support to Ukraine:

It was reported yesterday and today that the USA are trying to broker a deal whereby Poland lends or gives a number of their old fighter planes to Ukraine.  They are the same type that Ukraine already have so the pilots and ground crew would be familiar with them.

In return, Poland would get new, or nearly new, F16 fighter planes from the Yanks.

They haven’t worked out yet how the planes actually cross over into Ukraine without causing issues.

Everybody would probably gain if it all goes ahead.  Except the Russians.

(The story came from the American Secretary of State and was also reported in The Times today).

Donating or lending them some jets or anti-aircraft weapons is significantly stepping up western support. I assume the west would prefer any jets to remain in the west when grounded to offer their jets some protection but if Putin doesn't consider jets and/or anti-aircraft weapons as western involvement then I'm sure he will see the use of western runways as western involvement.

Quoted from Humbercod

Absolutely we can’t trust the Russians but as Codcheeky says the first casualty of war is the truth, and yes we know for certain the Russians have invaded. We can all agree that there is absolutely no sensible justification for this invasion and most of the world are outraged.

Nearly 2 weeks of Russian bombing allegedly attacking civilians area and yet thankfully only 360 civilian deaths reported which is obviously 360 to many, but to put in to context the Ukraine army have been indiscriminately attacking eastern Ukraine with a UN reported 2500 civilian deaths, 5,500 injured including 170 children killed or injured through land mines alone, and no outrage or world condemnation that I recall from the media and especially on here.
Even going back to Iraq over 200,000 civilian casualties that’s a hell of a number when you think about it and no threat of WW3.

I think all figures on all sides have to be taken with a large pinch of salt.  Rules and common sense go out the window when there are tanks, missiles and jets attacking. Putin has fallen into a trap we in the west so often have of thinking he knows best what citizens of another country should do. It is very messy and years of the Soviet Union mean there are a large number of Russians living in Ukraine , especially the East, also there are large numbers of Ukrainians all over Russia. There is a massive refugee crisis building for Europe ( note those fleeing this war are refugees whilst those fleeing Syria, Afghanistan and Iraq were migrants). The only thing for sure is arms manufacturers will be rubbing their bloody hands

Quoted from codcheeky

I think all figures on all sides have to be taken with a large pinch of salt.  Rules and common sense go out the window when there are tanks, missiles and jets attacking. Putin has fallen into a trap we in the west so often have of thinking he knows best what citizens of another country should do. It is very messy and years of the Soviet Union mean there are a large number of Russians living in Ukraine , especially the East, also there are large numbers of Ukrainians all over Russia. There is a massive refugee crisis building for Europe ( note those fleeing this war are refugees whilst those fleeing Syria, Afghanistan and Iraq were migrants). The only thing for sure is arms manufacturers will be rubbing their bloody hands

Share prices have boomed, whilst the markets overall have nosedived. Biggest spending increases will come from the previously pacifist big economies Germany and Japan.

The proposal to send Eastern European Russian-made aircraft to Ukraine and replace with NATO F-16s so those countries still have air defences seems obvious and proportionate, whether there will be any air strips left in Ukraine for them operate from is another matter.

Quoted from jamesgtfc

Donating or lending them some jets or anti-aircraft weapons is significantly stepping up western support. I assume the west would prefer any jets to remain in the west when grounded to offer their jets some protection but if Putin doesn't consider jets and/or anti-aircraft weapons as western involvement then I'm sure he will see the use of western runways as western involvement.

They would be sold to Ukraine so they would be operating from their airfields not Polands. Th3y can't be operated from nato
bases or else that is an act of war. difficult bit would be how to get them in there, I guess they would have to fly unarmed from Poland and land at a Ukrainian airfield before being armed and joining the conflict. So they would be vulnerable until they land.

The West has already provided a lot of anti aircraft missiles so that step has already been taken.

If ‘the west’ are to provide jets that the Ukrainians can fly, they’d have to be Mig 29’s - as operated by Poland. F16’s are no good to them.

Quoted from chaos33

If ‘the west’ are to provide jets that the Ukrainians can fly, they’d have to be Mig 29’s - as operated by Poland. F16’s are no good to them.

The plan broke down before because Poland couldn't give their Russian made MIGs to Ukraine as it would leave them short of their own air defence, so now the plan being considered is that NATO provide Poland with F16s to replace the MIGs - not a done deal yet though is the latest.

Quoted from Limerick Mariner

The plan broke down before because Poland couldn't give their Russian made MIGs to Ukraine as it would leave them short of their own air defence, so now the plan being considered is that NATO provide Poland with F16s to replace the MIGs - not a done deal yet though is the latest.

Now agreed by the look of it. Poland will send the MIGs to the US Air force in Germany. The US can then provide them to Ukraine. So ultimately decision is Americas to help dissuade Russia from any escalation.

In return America will provide F16s to Poland to cover the resulting gaps in their air force.

Am surprised at this,  certainly that it has been agreed so quickly, but pleased.

International balderdash test this deal. Potentially the straw that breaks the bear’s back. Standby.

??

At some point soon an enemy jet or two will appear in Ukraine airspace from NATO policed airspace. A modern RADAR system will be able to identify what aircraft it is but will a clearly deranged dictator care? Very dangerous and looks like there’s already some backtracking.

Quoted from LH

At some point soon an enemy jet or two will appear in Ukraine airspace from NATO policed airspace. A modern RADAR system will be able to identify what aircraft it is but will a clearly deranged dictator care? Very dangerous and looks like there’s already some backtracking.

It's certainly cranking it up somewhat. There are a number of things going on that certainly constitute "Western Interference" such as really hurting the Russian economy with sanctions and pressure on western businesses to leave. The long standing Coca-Cola and McDonalds partnership is no longer under threat as they both pulled out of Russia today. Supplying Ukraine with weapons, information and now jets. The West is doing just about everything other than putting boots on the ground and their own pilots in the sky.

I think governments are going to start stepping in to subsidise fuel costs as it really is spiralling out of control. I predicted diesel to hit £2 a litre this year the other day but it could easily hit it this month; although it never quite came down at the same rate when oil prices were negative not so long ago.

If Russia had a buyer for their Nordstream supply I'm sure they would have cut it off or at least reduced the supply to spite Europe by now.

The supply of NATO arms to Ukraine is no different from the Russian supply of arms and men to the western Ukrainian states they want to annex, prior to the invasion.

Poles tried to bounce us into deal, but us, for time being, have turned it down.may also some Romanian and Bulgarian mig 29s that could also transferred. Nato mig 29s are v different to the Ukrainian version. Is a side by side photo of the cockpit on twitter which is v revealing.would take pilots ,and support staff on ground a while to get to grips with it.
More unreported stuff.up to 40,000 international fighters are being enrolled, a Canadian division of 500 men has already been formed.large majority are former professional soldiers, so that is going to be a pretty useful addition, especially as they will have good experience of the weapons being provided
Pretty confident reports from several sources that the Ukrainians took out 49, yes,49 helicopters at kherson airfield 2 days ago
The point about airfields being taken out is a worry, but russian artillery is proving to be as useless as everything else.fired 6 cruise missiles at an airfield yesterday, only 2 hit, and even those did minimal damage.satellite photos show.meanwhile the arms pour into ukraine, and russia continues to be a generous supplier of ready to use machinery!
Ps the convoy remains stuck and the temperatures overnight this week are minus 9.no wonder they are not bothering attacking it!

Quoted from DB

The supply of NATO arms to Ukraine is no different from the Russian supply of arms and men to the western Ukrainian states they want to annex, prior to the invasion.

I don’t think you can compare like for like far from it DB, just check out the NATO expansion from 1990 onwards a sure way to make a paranoid superpower even more so. Besides Western Ukraine has been supplied by the West mainly America for years and Russia the east under the guise of al Civil war but in reality it looks more like a proxy war to me and always has been.

I don’t think Putins after turning Ukraine into a Russian state, listening  to the experts his goal is to keep the country sovereign (on paper) and have another Belarus. I suppose this creates a kind of buffer zone between Russia and the threatening and advancing West.

Quoted from forza ivano

Poles tried to bounce us into deal, but us, for time being, have turned it down.may also some Romanian and Bulgarian mig 29s that could also transferred. Nato mig 29s are v different to the Ukrainian version. Is a side by side photo of the cockpit on twitter which is v revealing.would take pilots ,and support staff on ground a while to get to grips with it.
More unreported stuff.up to 40,000 international fighters are being enrolled, a Canadian division of 500 men has already been formed.large majority are former professional soldiers, so that is going to be a pretty useful addition, especially as they will have good experience of the weapons being provided
Pretty confident reports from several sources that the Ukrainians took out 49, yes,49 helicopters at kherson airfield 2 days ago
The point about airfields being taken out is a worry, but russian artillery is proving to be as useless as everything else.fired 6 cruise missiles at an airfield yesterday, only 2 hit, and even those did minimal damage.satellite photos show.meanwhile the arms pour into ukraine, and russia continues to be a generous supplier of ready to use machinery!
Ps the convoy remains stuck and the temperatures overnight this week are minus 9.no wonder they are not bothering attacking it!

Good decision to turn down I can only see a mass escalation otherwise.
If these reports are true then it strengthens the decision for no NATO military action. The Ukraine army is doing an amazing job it seems, hopefully the peace talks can spin a Russian result for them and they can urine of back.

Quoted from Humbercod

Call Blair, Cameron, Johnson, Arseholes but to openly slate the greatest PM in our history, a war hero, a national treasure just shows how out of touch you are with the rest of the UK in that excrement hole Ruski owned London bubble.

It’s been well documented that Churchill got many things wrong but many of the big decisions he got spot on, one of them not often mentioned was the attack on Mers-el-Kébir this was a brave decision that took guts probably changed the outcome of the war and showed amazing leadership. Can you imagine someone like Keir Starmer having to make that decision he would flipping melt.

Have to say though getting back to the present day Boris Johnston has stepped up a gear and is now looking like a leader in fact he’s looking like the leader of the free world if we’re honest with sleepy Joe nowhere to be seen.

Just to slightly correct you and I’m sure you agree we didn’t go to war in in 2003! The correct term is that we invaded and occupied yet another sovereign Country killing thousands of innocent people, as the Iraq’s fought to defend their country, Based totally as you say on a tissue of lies.
It’s ok when we do it!

I’m all for people having opinions on people BUT…

If Churchill was such a Great War leader and the greatest PM in our history, how come the electorate handed him a crushing election defeat a couple of months after the war in Europe ended?

And Blair…

If he’s a war criminal because of the invasion of Iraq, how come the electorate gave him another term as PM at the 2005 general election?

It’s almost as if you’re talking out of your backside.

Quoted from Humbercod

I don’t think you can compare like for like far from it DB, just check out the NATO expansion from 1990 onwards a sure way to make a paranoid superpower even more so. Besides Western Ukraine has been supplied by the West mainly America for years and Russia the east under the guise of al Civil war but in reality it looks more like a proxy war to me and always has been.

I don’t think Putins after turning Ukraine into a Russian state, listening  to the experts his goal is to keep the country sovereign (on paper) and have another Belarus. I suppose this creates a kind of buffer zone between Russia and the threatening and advancing West.

How is ‘the west’ truthfully ‘threatening and advancing’?

Quoted from GollyGTFC

I’m all for people having opinions on people BUT…

If Churchill was such a Great War leader and the greatest PM in our history, how come the electorate handed him a crushing election defeat a couple of months after the war in Europe ended?

And Blair…

If he’s a war criminal because of the invasion of Iraq, how come the electorate gave him another term as PM at the 2005 general election?

It’s almost as if you’re talking out of your backside.

FFS don’t they teach history at school anyone?

As for Blair there is a reason he’s hated on a Jimmy Saville scale in this country and it can be found in an inquiry called the Chilcot report. And heres the thing it was released after his last term, running out of patience with you now you’re as thick as mince.

Quoted from chaos33

How is ‘the west’ truthfully ‘threatening and advancing’?

This is not my truth! But can you not understand from a Russian perspective how they might find the NATO expansion (against all agreements) a threat at best and an act of aggression at worse?

Just look how the US reacted during the Cuban middle crisis no difference really or imagine In some copulated up future, where dictator Justin Trudeau forms an alliance with Russia and allows in their troops and military hardware etc it just wouldn’t be allowed to happen.

Quoted from Humbercod

FFS don’t they teach history at school anyone?

As for Blair there is a reason he’s hated on a Jimmy Saville scale in this country and it can be found in an inquiry called the Chilcot report. And heres the thing it was released after his last term, running out of patience with you now you’re as thick as mince.

I’m not so sure Blair is hated on that scale. No more so than people hate Johnson or Thatcher.

Nobody disagrees that he’s a war criminal but I think your assessment of him being hated is inaccurate. You’re assuming that the majority of folk will have read and digested the Chilcot report, unlikely and of the last two years has proved anything, people will swallow anything given to them.

Quoted from aldi_01

I’m not so sure Blair is hated on that scale. No more so than people hate Johnson or Thatcher.

Nobody disagrees that he’s a war criminal but I think your assessment of him being hated is inaccurate. You’re assuming that the majority of folk will have read and digested the Chilcot report, unlikely and of the last two years has proved anything, people will swallow anything given to them.

Definitely a war criminal you only have to look at the recent public reaction to his knighthood, only 14% in favour in the Independent poll says it all really, the majority of the public hate him.

Quoted from aldi_01

I’m not so sure Blair is hated on that scale. No more so than people hate Johnson or Thatcher.

Nobody disagrees that he’s a war criminal but I think your assessment of him being hated is inaccurate. You’re assuming that the majority of folk will have read and digested the Chilcot report, unlikely and of the last two years has proved anything, people will swallow anything given to them.

I don’t think he’s a war criminal.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

I don’t think he’s a war criminal.

We're all up in arms about Putin killing thousands of innocent civilians for no reason, where does that differ from Blair and Bush?

4 interesting tweets overnight





add it into that that Belarus is steadfastly refusing to commit any troops or machinery, which rather indicates that lukashenko is starting to hedge his bets

whisper it quietly, but there might just be the first signs of a turning tide....

Quoted from Humbercod

Definitely a war criminal you only have to look at the recent public reaction to his knighthood, only 14% in favour in the Independent poll says it all really, the majority of the public hate him.

All his knighthood told us is how out of touch the royal household is and how irrelevant peerages are.

People protesting about his knighthood still doesn’t mean he’s any more or less hated than Thatcher or Johnson.

F***ing Gavin Williamson got a knighthood - which tells you all you need to know about that particular process. An incompetent, inarticulate failure of a man dismissed from two cabinet posts for his performance! Everyone knows he was knighted because he knows ‘where the bodies are buried’ in relation to Johnson’s utter incompetence and transgressions. Another unarguable indicator of how this government is utterly corrupt and dishonourable.

Quoted from aldi_01

All his knighthood told us is how out of touch the royal household is and how irrelevant peerages are.

People protesting about his knighthood still doesn’t mean he’s any more or less hated than Thatcher or Johnson.

There has always been a tradition of ex PMs being given Knighthoods or made Lords (or Lady). The Tories want to give Cameron a knighthood but there was a backlog and couldn’t without cries of bias, expect Brown Cameron and May to follow Blair in the next few years.

Quoted from mariner91

We're all up in arms about Putin killing thousands of innocent civilians for no reason, where does that differ from Blair and Bush?

You can’t compare what Russia has historically done in Georgia and Syria and are doing right now in Ukraine with the toppling of Saddam Hussein.

The problem with Iraq was there was no proper plan in place with what to replace Saddam with and that caused a war between the installed coalition government and insurgencies. Bush & Blair destabilised Iraq and that led to a civil war.

If Bush and/or Blair had committed war crimes then why have neither of them been charged and tried by the ICC?

Russia has invaded a neighbour without any legitimate justification and is deliberately targeting civilians. That can be defined as a war crime under the Geneva Convention. And based on the Russian playbook of falsely accusing their enemy of doing what they themselves have done/are doing/will do, the Russians are about to use chemical weapons in Ukraine.

Quoted from mariner91

We're all up in arms about Putin killing thousands of innocent civilians for no reason, where does that differ from Blair and Bush?

I tell you where it differs, Blair and Bush created a monumental feck-up of a mess from an invasion of Iraq, that may have been illegal, but the mass death and destruction that followed was in the civil war that followed. I've no idea how many innocent civilians died at the hands of the US and UK armed forces, but they didn't deliberately kill civilians or employ ordnance on a mass scale to destroy civil buildings and kill civilians therein. At the time of the invasion the Iraqi army represented a minority ruling dictatorship that had no support from majority shia population, it surrendered or evaporated within 3 weeks, many perhaps to fight another day in a civil war in a different guise. Total feck-up, yes, creating a vacuum for Sunni's and Shias to kill each other en masse yes, illegal invasion, probably, civilian deaths from precision weapons wrongly targeted yes, a few rogue squaddies killing civilians yes, deliberate encircling of cities with artillery and attacks with air power and missiles to indiscriminately flatten cities and kill civilians therein no  

There have been air fuel tankers circling the sky's around Brasov in Romania, sometimes 2 at a time. You do have to ask the question as to who and what the tankers are providing fuel for?

Sometimes these tankers come from Mildenhall so a 4 hour flight to be near a war zone is not a training exercise, all this is on flightradar 24.

Good question mate. Not sure of the answer. I guess it’s most likely to be for NATO jets stationed in those nearby countries - US have F15’s and F35’s in the region I think and Romania, Poland, Hungary and Estonia have their own jets, presumably flying CAPs over their countries and Ukrainian borders.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

You can’t compare what Russia has historically done in Georgia and Syria and are doing right now in Ukraine with the toppling of Saddam Hussein.

The problem with Iraq was there was no proper plan in place with what to replace Saddam with and that caused a war between the installed coalition government and insurgencies. Bush & Blair destabilised Iraq and that led to a civil war.

If Bush and/or Blair had committed war crimes then why have neither of them been charged and tried by the ICC?

Russia has invaded a neighbour without any legitimate justification and is deliberately targeting civilians. That can be defined as a war crime under the Geneva Convention. And based on the Russian playbook of falsely accusing their enemy of doing what they themselves have done/are doing/will do, the Russians are about to use chemical weapons in Ukraine.

Complete nonsense, we made up stuff about weapons of mass destruction and followed the Americans like sheep, like the Russians in Ukraine we convinced the British public that we would be welcomed,  we then spent years not knowing who,s side any of the natives were on and provided a perfect recruiting ground for Isis. We invaded with no direct threat to either us or America. America even had a camp to keep prisoners of  war in another country because it was against their own laws, imagine the outcry if Putin sent prisoners to Cuba were they were tortured and kept locked up for years without access to a lawyer. Didn't we say the same about Saddam and chemical weapons ? The similarities are stunning. It does no make either right but don't be blind to our own history

Quoted from Limerick Mariner

I tell you where it differs, Blair and Bush created a monumental feck-up of a mess from an invasion of Iraq, that may have been illegal, but the mass death and destruction that followed was in the civil war that followed. I've no idea how many innocent civilians died at the hands of the US and UK armed forces, but they didn't deliberately kill civilians or employ ordnance on a mass scale to destroy civil buildings and kill civilians therein. At the time of the invasion the Iraqi army represented a minority ruling dictatorship that had no support from majority shia population, it surrendered or evaporated within 3 weeks, many perhaps to fight another day in a civil war in a different guise. Total feck-up, yes, creating a vacuum for Sunni's and Shias to kill each other en masse yes, illegal invasion, probably, civilian deaths from precision weapons wrongly targeted yes, a few rogue squaddies killing civilians yes, deliberate encircling of cities with artillery and attacks with air power and missiles to indiscriminately flatten cities and kill civilians therein no  

Getting involved in a country that we had no right to do using the excuse of made up WMD's. Perhaps not a war criminal in the eye's of the law but it's totally inexcusable to lead that invasion and cause all the deaths and mayhem.

It’s irrelevant whether or not Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is like our invasion of Iraq. Two wrongs don’t make a right. If you want to criticise the invasion of a Iraq you should also criticise the invasion of Ukraine.

Don’t get sidetracked by Whataboutism. It’s just cover for aggressors.

Quoted from DB

There have been air fuel tankers circling the sky's around Brasov in Romania, sometimes 2 at a time. You do have to ask the question as to who and what the tankers are providing fuel for?

Sometimes these tankers come from Mildenhall so a 4 hour flight to be near a war zone is not a training exercise, all this is on flightradar 24.

NATO airpolicing. The fighters won’t appear to keep an element of stealth but they will be flying near enough 24hrs a day - as Chaos says it’s a multi national force from multiple airfields. If you go on the MOD/RAF Twitter accounts you’ll see Typhoons and F35s are operating from Lithuania, Estonia and Romania. The Germans I believe are covering Latvia with their Typhoons and the Americans are everywhere with everything from A10s and F16s to B52s (flying daily from Fairford). This is all part of the NATO rapid reaction force which was stood up for the first time two weeks ago.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

You can’t compare what Russia has historically done in Georgia and Syria and are doing right now in Ukraine with the toppling of Saddam Hussein.

The problem with Iraq was there was no proper plan in place with what to replace Saddam with and that caused a war between the installed coalition government and insurgencies. Bush & Blair destabilised Iraq and that led to a civil war.

If Bush and/or Blair had committed war crimes then why have neither of them been charged and tried by the ICC?

Russia has invaded a neighbour without any legitimate justification and is deliberately targeting civilians. That can be defined as a war crime under the Geneva Convention. And based on the Russian playbook of falsely accusing their enemy of doing what they themselves have done/are doing/will do, the Russians are about to use chemical weapons in Ukraine.

An American senator admitted yesterday that there are joint US Ukraine bio lab facilities in the Ukraine that they do not want Putin to get control of.  Do you think if there were similar facilities in Mexico and Mexico was a perceived enemy state they would be happy about it? I don't think this is mentioned on the BBC none of this justifies in any way Russian atrocities.

Quoted from DB

There have been air fuel tankers circling the sky's around Brasov in Romania, sometimes 2 at a time. You do have to ask the question as to who and what the tankers are providing fuel for?

Sometimes these tankers come from Mildenhall so a 4 hour flight to be near a war zone is not a training exercise, all this is on flightradar 24.

NATO surveillance planes have been operating on a widescale basis. It's pretty common knowledge that the U.S. / NATO are feeding the Ukrainians their intelligence wholesale. The Russians, meanwhile, are trying to communicate via shiite $25 Chinese walkie talkies, which are constantly being disrupted by radio hams. No wonder it's not going to plan.
As an aside because of their shocking communications Russian officers are having to be far nearer the action than they'd like. Today they lost their 3rd major general , out of  a total of c. 20, in just 10 days

PS going back to my post this morning - VERY interesting tweet just came in  https://twitter.com/MaximAlyukov/status/1502337993012658177  Don't also forget that FSB is currently being purged - both the chief of the Ukrainian division and his deputy are apparently under house arrest, whilst 8 generals have been replaced

Quoted from chaos33

Good question mate. Not sure of the answer. I guess it’s most likely to be for NATO jets stationed in those nearby countries - US have F15’s and F35’s in the region I think and Romania, Poland, Hungary and Estonia have their own jets, presumably flying CAPs over their countries and Ukrainian borders.

There would not be a need for tankers to refuel them as they could land, refuel and take off in friendly NATO countries.

Quoted from DB

There would not be a need for tankers to refuel them as they could land, refuel and take off in friendly NATO countries.

Which would take time and mean a drop in airspace coverage. It’s not pulling in to Tesco and then coming back on at a roundabout or traffic lights - they’d have to wait for air traffic clearance to come back up. If there is AtoA refuelling going on in a corridor that is the only thing allowed to fly there.

Quoted from mariner91

Getting involved in a country that we had no right to do using the excuse of made up WMD's. Perhaps not a war criminal in the eye's of the law but it's totally inexcusable to lead that invasion and cause all the deaths and mayhem.

Don't disagree. But why did the US and UK armed forces cause Sunni to kill Shia and vice versa in the aftermath. The removal of Saddam created a vacuum but that didn't make Sunni kill Shia. Are they not sentient beings that can make their own choices? The invasion was wrong, but the majority of the civilian population supported it and the Iraqi army hardly put up resistance. Totally different from Ukraine. The invasion of Ukraine is like the UK invading the Republic of Ireland on the grounds of some IRA atrocity in Northern Ireland, like the UK saying the RoI is not a proper country and actually they are all British really because they speak English and then obliterating Dublin when the Irish didn't roll over and surrender.

Quoted from forza ivano

NATO surveillance planes have been operating on a widescale basis. It's pretty common knowledge that the U.S. / NATO are feeding the Ukrainians their intelligence wholesale. The Russians, meanwhile, are trying to communicate via shiite $25 Chinese walkie talkies, which are constantly being disrupted by radio hams. No wonder it's not going to plan.
As an aside because of their shocking communications Russian officers are having to be far nearer the action than they'd like. Today they lost their 3rd major general , out of  a total of c. 20, in just 10 days

PS going back to my post this morning - VERY interesting tweet just came in  https://twitter.com/MaximAlyukov/status/1502337993012658177  Don't also forget that FSB is currently being purged - both the chief of the Ukrainian division and his deputy are apparently under house arrest, whilst 8 generals have been replaced

That tweet has disappeared now. Didn’t get a screenshot did you?

Quoted from codcheeky

An American senator admitted yesterday that there are joint US Ukraine bio lab facilities in the Ukraine that they do not want Putin to get control of.  Do you think if there were similar facilities in Mexico and Mexico was a perceived enemy state they would be happy about it? I don't think this is mentioned on the BBC none of this justifies in any way Russian atrocities.

You’ve got to wonder why Russia’s neighbours don’t like them and want to be in NATO. It’s not a coincidence. Most of them have been invaded as independent states:
Poland 1939
Finland 1939
Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania 1940
Hungary 1956
Czechoslovakia 1968
In effect Russia occupies part of Moldova (Transdniestria) having taken much of what is now Moldova off Romania in 1940
Georgia 2008
Ukraine 2014

My old lady used to say, ‘do as you would be done by’. So if you don’t want hostile forces in your neighbouring countries, be nice to them. It’s worked pretty well in Western Europe and the EU expansion states since WWII and the collapse of the Eastern Bloc.

Missiles launched from Iran into Kurdish Iraq and land near an American airbase at Erbil. Another step closer.

Quoted from codcheeky

An American senator admitted yesterday that there are joint US Ukraine bio lab facilities in the Ukraine that they do not want Putin to get control of.  Do you think if there were similar facilities in Mexico and Mexico was a perceived enemy state they would be happy about it? I don't think this is mentioned on the BBC none of this justifies in any way Russian atrocities.

When you live next door to a neighbour who has chemical and biological weapons you're going to want a lab to identify what was those weapons are. Ukraine literally gave up its nuclear arsenal in the name of peace, but suddenly they're willing to create a biological weapon that would threaten the world?

Quoted from scrumble

When you live next door to a neighbour who has chemical and biological weapons you're going to want a lab to identify what was those weapons are. Ukraine literally gave up its nuclear arsenal in the name of peace, but suddenly they're willing to create a biological weapon that would threaten the world?

Very naive, Ukraine until relatively recently had been under the control of influence of Russia,  many of these labs are on sites from the Soviet era, there are bio labs there this has been confirmed by the Americans, we have bio labs here in the UK, if you work in them you sign the official secrets act, you can pretend as much as you like we only make ethical weapons ( it there is such a thing) The Russians say the same about what their bio labs are used for. There are lots of grey areas and nothing is completely black and white, everything either side does threatens the world at the moment, every new weapon we as the West send that tips a balance could push Putin to use nuclear force

Quoted from KingstonMariner

You’ve got to wonder why Russia’s neighbours don’t like them and want to be in NATO. It’s not a coincidence. Most of them have been invaded as independent states:
Poland 1939
Finland 1939
Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania 1940
Hungary 1956
Czechoslovakia 1968
In effect Russia occupies part of Moldova (Transdniestria) having taken much of what is now Moldova off Romania in 1940
Georgia 2008
Ukraine 2014

My old lady used to say, ‘do as you would be done by’. So if you don’t want hostile forces in your neighbouring countries, be nice to them. It’s worked pretty well in Western Europe and the EU expansion states since WWII and the collapse of the Eastern Bloc.

You are completely right and I am in no way defending Russia or the old USSR,  since the middle of the last century the good old  USA has attempted to force regime change in 50 different countries, many because they did not agree with who the population voted for, from South and Central America to Asia and the Middle East . I am just pointing out that it is like the pot  calling the kettle black, if You look back at our own history of global colonisation we can have little moral ground in calling out others. We still have Gibraltar, bits of Cyprus and other areas and islands, we shout about Hong  Kong as if it had a great history of Democracy under British rule.   It is easy to point fingers but every major power wants and seeks to maintain it's sphere of influence

Quoted from codcheeky

You are completely right and I am in no way defending Russia or the old USSR,  since the middle of the last century the good old  USA has attempted to force regime change in 50 different countries, many because they did not agree with who the population voted for, from South and Central America to Asia and the Middle East . I am just pointing out that it is like the pot  calling the kettle black, if You look back at our own history of global colonisation we can have little moral ground in calling out others. We still have Gibraltar, bits of Cyprus and other areas and islands, we shout about Hong  Kong as if it had a great history of Democracy under British rule.   It is easy to point fingers but every major power wants and seeks to maintain it's sphere of influence

Yeah, I’m not saying Britain or the US is morally superior to Russia. Well I suppose I am a bit, in that I’d rather live in a world with the Anglo style system than the Russian.

But at the end of the day what counts now is this is a big war. The biggest in my lifetime, except maybe Vietnam, and it’s bloody close to home. You could say it’s hypocritical to care more about Europeans than Africans or Asians, but the main protagonist has said it wants to control the other neighbours’ foreign policy and in some cases take their territory. I feel this personally because right now my mother-in-law* is worried that they are in the firing line and not a NATO member.

* she could quite easily have not been born if Putin’s forebears had been a bit luckier

I’m sure there are many more people in Britain now who have friends and family and colleagues in Eastern Europe. They’re no longer far away countries of which we know nothing.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Yeah, I’m not saying Britain or the US is morally superior to Russia. Well I suppose I am a bit, in that I’d rather live in a world with the Anglo style system than the Russian.

But at the end of the day what counts now is this is a big war. The biggest in my lifetime, except maybe Vietnam, and it’s bloody close to home. You could say it’s hypocritical to care more about Europeans than Africans or Asians, but the main protagonist has said it wants to control the other neighbours’ foreign policy and in some cases take their territory. I feel this personally because right now my mother-in-law* is worried that they are in the firing line and not a NATO member.

* she could quite easily have not been born if Putin’s forebears had been a bit luckier

I’m sure there are many more people in Britain now who have friends and family and colleagues in Eastern Europe. They’re no longer far away countries of which we know nothing.

In terms of deaths hopefully this will get nowhere near the scale of Afghanistan, Iraq or Syria,  or even Yugoslavia which was even closer and still bubbling away, but I know what you are saying, we have Ukranian friends trying to get relatives here and plans to visit friends in Lithuania again in the summer,  their families are building shelters and are  very fearful of Putin. This war is waste of life and there should be better way of sorting disputes. The truth is we have pandered to Putin for years, the government is full of MPs and a Party taking Russian donations to turn a blind eye . We even have Russian oligarch owning the London Standard Paper( and the Independent) who has been made a Lord against the advice of MI5.  Nothing much was really done in 2014 when Crimea was annexed and it would be the same now if Russia had won a swift victory. The truth is the Ukrainians have surprised not only Putin but the West too. Putin cannot win now even if he occupies the whole country, like us they have appeared to learn nothing from their time in Afghanistan.
But what next? Putin cannot admit he has made a massive error, any replacement to him won't want to see Russia humiliated, although it can be spun, as our  defeats in Iraq and Afghanistan have. The difference is many, many Russians see Ukraine as absolutely part of Russia and care much more than we ever did about Arabs, the majority of the Russian population agree with Putin's special military intervention. They believe they are fighting neo- Nazis just like that Grandfathers did and they are not wrong in knowing Ukraine has some pretty unsavoury far right wing militias.

I agree codcheeky. I think talk of war crimes has just made it harder for Putin to back out of it. He’s painted himself in a corner, but what we don’t want is for him to blow a hole in the wall to get out. The settlement negotiations need to be predicated on no fixed lines. Russia has genuine security concerns, and so does Ukraine and all the other neighbours. Personally I would suggest that NATO guarantees Ukraine’s independence, but Ukraine doesn’t join, with the proviso the Azov Battalion gets dismantled and neo-Nazi individuals banned from military/police service, Russia can inspect the labs, and Ukraine is allowed to make up its own mind on things like the EU. A similar formula (NATO guarantees non-member states) for Finland and Sweden.

Apparently those bio labs the US senator referred to are for researching things like African Swine Feaver which has decimated pig stocks in Russia (though the outbreak occurred years before a lab opened in Georgia that the Russians claim was responsible).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/03/11/how-right-embraced-russian-disinformation-about-us-bioweapons-labs-ukraine/

Quoted from KingstonMariner

That tweet has disappeared now. Didn’t get a screenshot did you?

this was the gist of it  https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/russian-state-tv-putin-abroadcasting-criticism-war/

Alyukov has backtracked a little (would be interesting to know why) but his point was that the programme is pre recorded, so would be easy to edit out criticism. The fact that it was allowed to be shown suggested that the Putin was just seeing what public reaction would be if the idea was aired .This is much the same as our Government does, when a tory MP is encouraged to put forward some idea that is being entertained in government , which they don't want to put their name to, but do want to find out public reaction to the idea

interesting piece here - fingers crossed 'Karl' is right in his assessment  https://newlinesmag.com/argument/putins-worsening-problems/

and more here

Quoted from forza ivano

this was the gist of it  https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/russian-state-tv-putin-abroadcasting-criticism-war/

Alyukov has backtracked a little (would be interesting to know why) but his point was that the programme is pre recorded, so would be easy to edit out criticism. The fact that it was allowed to be shown suggested that the Putin was just seeing what public reaction would be if the idea was aired .This is much the same as our Government does, when a tory MP is encouraged to put forward some idea that is being entertained in government , which they don't want to put their name to, but do want to find out public reaction to the idea

interesting piece here - fingers crossed 'Karl' is right in his assessment  https://newlinesmag.com/argument/putins-worsening-problems/

and more here

Tweet 1503340301112467456 will appear here...

Cheers FI. Hope ‘Karl’ is right.

The more I read about it the more I find it hard to believe the Russians have been so corrupt and incompetent*. I’m worried that it’s a lot of wishful thinking plus a big dollop of fake news from the Ukrainians. But there seems to be enough independent verification to suggest it’s not that far off the mark. It’s a good job for the Russians that they have nukes! It’s almost a come and get me ploy - do they think they can win a nuclear war with hypersonic missiles giving them a great first strike capability?

* they’ve got form for it throughout their history. But they always seem to pull through.

I’m sure at some point there’ll be a declaration that they have “destroyed 20,000 Fascists” and that they can conclude the operation as a success.

Cheers forward that was interesting. Like Kingston I just hope Karl is right and not letting sentiment cloud his judgment. Fingers crossed.

There does seem to be a something very wrong with the Russian war machine, whether it is internal corruption, a complete under estimation of the Ukraine defensive capabilities or an unwillingness to be ruthless enough to use the force and armament necessary or any combination of these and other reasons, it does however appear that they are intent on cutting Ukraine off from the Black sea which would make Ukraine a land locked country. Zelensky seems to have accepted that Ukraine will not become part of NATO and both sides seem more positive in peace talks. Hopefully an end to the conflict will come soon. It is difficult to see what either side will have gained, Ukraine will have lost more territory and knows Russia will play the long game 're asserting its influence (you only have to look at the UK to see how easily politicians accept a bit of cash for a favourable ear) . However it will have gained integrity as a country completely independent of Russian influence. Russia has seen its currency devalued, mass sanctions and been embarrassed by its military incompetence. it has perhaps seen the end of Putin's dream of rebuilding the old Soviet Union. However it has shown NATO that it will allow no further encroachment. Whichever side holds the damaged cities in the end faces massive rebuilding costs
This war has brought up many things and we could see many shifts because of it, firstly sanctions and the power this gives the USA because world business is conducted mostly in dollars as the default currency.  Russia wants to be able to pay its debts in Roubles or Yuan because it's reserves in dollars are frozen.  China is against sanctions as a weapon, mainly because they may be next and it is a one sided weapon. Saudi Arabia who are also possible candidates for sanctions are contemplating allowing payment in Yuan for their oil. This would a seismic shift and indicates the growing power of the eastern market. We have for years sent manufacturing over there for cheapness and are now reaping the results.
Secondly the reliance on fossil fuels, there may be sanctions but Russia's biggest export is oil and gas and the reality is half of Europe are now lost without it. This and also the dangers of global warming mean alternative energy sources need fast tracking . The US is in such a panic about rising fuel costs for their car addicted population that they even went to ask Maduro( a man with a $15m US bounty on his head)in Venezuela for help and are in The process of asking a nation that murdered one of it's citizens in their embassy for more output. Our own PM is also going to be for more oil to keep prices down despite a war in Yemen with uncanny parallels to Ukraine.
The power of the internet, there is no doubt that the big American companies have a massive and growing influence on the narrative and availability of any content. We claim we have free speech but ban any other station not portraying the same events from a different perspective, Facebook are quite happy to give space to the fascist Azov militia but not to state Russian tv or radio( unless of course it is a woman bravely making a protest that suits their agenda in it.) China and most of the rest of Asia are seeing this and will look to control it further
Military hardware, we are seeing the end of the tank as an effective force and to a lesser extent the helicopter  the big winners have been Turkish drones and uk/Swedish NLAWs,  The drones have been devastating and the NLAWs do the same job as the US Javelin need only one man and are less than a quarter of the price.We are in the process of commissioning a new tank , if it cannot withstand a drone strike it will be a complete waste of money.
Political donations, Russian money has washed through Westminster and the whole lobbying  system needs a thorough rethink.  No one gives money with the expectation of nothing in return, we even had a Russian firm getting a £2 million contract to change the press room (shelved for now) in Downing Street. We have an Oligarch and son of a KGB officer in the House of Lords. Something is very wrong, we are becoming more and more corrupt as a country.. If politicians can be bought by foreign powers then they are traitors and should be locked up. Will anything change? I won't hold my breath, it's too hard for some to get their nose out of the trough

Quoted from codcheeky

There does seem to be a something very wrong with the Russian war machine, whether it is internal corruption, a complete under estimation of the Ukraine defensive capabilities or an unwillingness to be ruthless enough to use the force and armament necessary or any combination of these and other reasons, it does however appear that they are intent on cutting Ukraine off from the Black sea which would make Ukraine a land locked country. Zelensky seems to have accepted that Ukraine will not become part of NATO and both sides seem more positive in peace talks. Hopefully an end to the conflict will come soon. It is difficult to see what either side will have gained, Ukraine will have lost more territory and knows Russia will play the long game 're asserting its influence (you only have to look at the UK to see how easily politicians accept a bit of cash for a favourable ear) . However it will have gained integrity as a country completely independent of Russian influence. Russia has seen its currency devalued, mass sanctions and been embarrassed by its military incompetence. it has perhaps seen the end of Putin's dream of rebuilding the old Soviet Union. However it has shown NATO that it will allow no further encroachment. Whichever side holds the damaged cities in the end faces massive rebuilding costs
This war has brought up many things and we could see many shifts because of it, firstly sanctions and the power this gives the USA because world business is conducted mostly in dollars as the default currency.  Russia wants to be able to pay its debts in Roubles or Yuan because it's reserves in dollars are frozen.  China is against sanctions as a weapon, mainly because they may be next and it is a one sided weapon. Saudi Arabia who are also possible candidates for sanctions are contemplating allowing payment in Yuan for their oil. This would a seismic shift and indicates the growing power of the eastern market. We have for years sent manufacturing over there for cheapness and are now reaping the results.
Secondly the reliance on fossil fuels, there may be sanctions but Russia's biggest export is oil and gas and the reality is half of Europe are now lost without it. This and also the dangers of global warming mean alternative energy sources need fast tracking . The US is in such a panic about rising fuel costs for their car addicted population that they even went to ask Maduro( a man with a $15m US bounty on his head)in Venezuela for help and are in The process of asking a nation that murdered one of it's citizens in their embassy for more output. Our own PM is also going to be for more oil to keep prices down despite a war in Yemen with uncanny parallels to Ukraine.
The power of the internet, there is no doubt that the big American companies have a massive and growing influence on the narrative and availability of any content. We claim we have free speech but ban any other station not portraying the same events from a different perspective, Facebook are quite happy to give space to the fascist Azov militia but not to state Russian tv or radio( unless of course it is a woman bravely making a protest that suits their agenda in it.) China and most of the rest of Asia are seeing this and will look to control it further
Military hardware, we are seeing the end of the tank as an effective force and to a lesser extent the helicopter  the big winners have been Turkish drones and uk/Swedish NLAWs,  The drones have been devastating and the NLAWs do the same job as the US Javelin need only one man and are less than a quarter of the price.We are in the process of commissioning a new tank , if it cannot withstand a drone strike it will be a complete waste of money.
Political donations, Russian money has washed through Westminster and the whole lobbying  system needs a thorough rethink.  No one gives money with the expectation of nothing in return, we even had a Russian firm getting a £2 million contract to change the press room (shelved for now) in Downing Street. We have an Oligarch and son of a KGB officer in the House of Lords. Something is very wrong, we are becoming more and more corrupt as a country.. If politicians can be bought by foreign powers then they are traitors and should be locked up. Will anything change? I won't hold my breath, it's too hard for some to get their nose out of the trough

some good points in there and, for me, what makes this conflict so vital, as there are so many strands to it.
i think the big one is that we will hopefully see the 'enicirclement' of Belarussia/Russia/China/Iran by a loose alliance of the free/democratic world.

there are signs of this happening already - we have NATO strengthened and the EU more united as a result. Finland and Sweden are teaming up, and are going to strengthen their armed forces, witht he distinct possibility that they will join NATO.
AUKUS was already in place and now we see Japan and South korea more willing to come 'on board' militarily. if you look at a map of the world , you will see what i mean.
India is a really interesting one as they have depended militarily on Russia for 50 years, so still need them in order to be able to resist Chinese aggression. However it's important to remember that India is a democracy, and Modhi won't be there forever

Then there is Turkey (vital to keep them on board - again theyre a democracy and Erdogan won't be there forever).
What happens to Georgia, Moldova & Armenia?
What will be the political fallout for the 'strong men' and right wingers who gave tacit support to Putin?
Hopefully we will not go back to 'business as usual' coz if we continue with the sanctions and the drive against Russian oil and gas we could hobble them for a generation. (Incidenatlly, this could be of benefit to the environment as there looks like there will be a rush to renewables, although there will be a short term problem with increasing the use of fossil fuels - increased venezuelan and Saudi production, more use of Polish/german coal and more exploitation of the North sea)
UK politics could become very interesting, because there are going to be some uncomfortable revelations, especially for the Tories

as they say this story will run and run!


BREAKING NEWS! - this just in

Quoted from forza ivano

some good points in there and, for me, what makes this conflict so vital, as there are so many strands to it.
i think the big one is that we will hopefully see the 'enicirclement' of Belarussia/Russia/China/Iran by a loose alliance of the free/democratic world.

there are signs of this happening already - we have NATO strengthened and the EU more united as a result. Finland and Sweden are teaming up, and are going to strengthen their armed forces, witht he distinct possibility that they will join NATO.
AUKUS was already in place and now we see Japan and South korea more willing to come 'on board' militarily. if you look at a map of the world , you will see what i mean.
India is a really interesting one as they have depended militarily on Russia for 50 years, so still need them in order to be able to resist Chinese aggression. However it's important to remember that India is a democracy, and Modhi won't be there forever

Then there is Turkey (vital to keep them on board - again theyre a democracy and Erdogan won't be there forever).
What happens to Georgia, Moldova & Armenia?
What will be the political fallout for the 'strong men' and right wingers who gave tacit support to Putin?
Hopefully we will not go back to 'business as usual' coz if we continue with the sanctions and the drive against Russian oil and gas we could hobble them for a generation. (Incidenatlly, this could be of benefit to the environment as there looks like there will be a rush to renewables, although there will be a short term problem with increasing the use of fossil fuels - increased venezuelan and Saudi production, more use of Polish/german coal and more exploitation of the North sea)
UK politics could become very interesting, because there are going to be some uncomfortable revelations, especially for the Tories

as they say this story will run and run!


BREAKING NEWS! - this just in

Tweet 1504030510875557891 will appear here...

One or two more negotiations and Ukraine could also get the NATO term removed! I wouldn't be surprised to see Ukraine have to give up some territory or have a "democratic" vote in those territories. Russia will feel they have to go back with something.

Also, who pays for the damage? I doubt Russia will be paying a rouble towards repairing their path of destruction.

In not entirely unrelated news, Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe is apparently being released after 6 years.

I suspect this is an indication that we'll pay the Iranians back for those Chieftain tanks which were never supplied following the revolution, sanctions will be loosened and Iranian oil will start to flow once again quite soon.

Hopefully, a peaceful solution can be found in Ukraine but Putin may have really screwed over the Russian economy in the longer-term.

Quoted from codcheeky

There does seem to be a something very wrong with the Russian war machine, whether it is internal corruption, a complete under estimation of the Ukraine defensive capabilities or an unwillingness to be ruthless enough to use the force and armament necessary or any combination of these and other reasons, it does however appear that they are intent on cutting Ukraine off from the Black sea which would make Ukraine a land locked country. Zelensky seems to have accepted that Ukraine will not become part of NATO and both sides seem more positive in peace talks. Hopefully an end to the conflict will come soon. It is difficult to see what either side will have gained, Ukraine will have lost more territory and knows Russia will play the long game 're asserting its influence (you only have to look at the UK to see how easily politicians accept a bit of cash for a favourable ear) . However it will have gained integrity as a country completely independent of Russian influence. Russia has seen its currency devalued, mass sanctions and been embarrassed by its military incompetence. it has perhaps seen the end of Putin's dream of rebuilding the old Soviet Union. However it has shown NATO that it will allow no further encroachment. Whichever side holds the damaged cities in the end faces massive rebuilding costs
This war has brought up many things and we could see many shifts because of it, firstly sanctions and the power this gives the USA because world business is conducted mostly in dollars as the default currency.  Russia wants to be able to pay its debts in Roubles or Yuan because it's reserves in dollars are frozen.  China is against sanctions as a weapon, mainly because they may be next and it is a one sided weapon. Saudi Arabia who are also possible candidates for sanctions are contemplating allowing payment in Yuan for their oil. This would a seismic shift and indicates the growing power of the eastern market. We have for years sent manufacturing over there for cheapness and are now reaping the results.
Secondly the reliance on fossil fuels, there may be sanctions but Russia's biggest export is oil and gas and the reality is half of Europe are now lost without it. This and also the dangers of global warming mean alternative energy sources need fast tracking . The US is in such a panic about rising fuel costs for their car addicted population that they even went to ask Maduro( a man with a $15m US bounty on his head)in Venezuela for help and are in The process of asking a nation that murdered one of it's citizens in their embassy for more output. Our own PM is also going to be for more oil to keep prices down despite a war in Yemen with uncanny parallels to Ukraine.
The power of the internet, there is no doubt that the big American companies have a massive and growing influence on the narrative and availability of any content. We claim we have free speech but ban any other station not portraying the same events from a different perspective, Facebook are quite happy to give space to the fascist Azov militia but not to state Russian tv or radio( unless of course it is a woman bravely making a protest that suits their agenda in it.) China and most of the rest of Asia are seeing this and will look to control it further
Military hardware, we are seeing the end of the tank as an effective force and to a lesser extent the helicopter  the big winners have been Turkish drones and uk/Swedish NLAWs,  The drones have been devastating and the NLAWs do the same job as the US Javelin need only one man and are less than a quarter of the price.We are in the process of commissioning a new tank , if it cannot withstand a drone strike it will be a complete waste of money.
Political donations, Russian money has washed through Westminster and the whole lobbying  system needs a thorough rethink.  No one gives money with the expectation of nothing in return, we even had a Russian firm getting a £2 million contract to change the press room (shelved for now) in Downing Street. We have an Oligarch and son of a KGB officer in the House of Lords. Something is very wrong, we are becoming more and more corrupt as a country.. If politicians can be bought by foreign powers then they are traitors and should be locked up. Will anything change? I won't hold my breath, it's too hard for some to get their nose out of the trough

Excellent summary!

Yep, a summary very hard to oppose. What we have to face is that this Conservative government have been in power for more than a decade and bear full responsibility for the very obvious sickening corruption that proliferates Londongrad, the appalling wash of laundered Russian blood money that props up this regime, and the stark reality that, as every day passes, the filthy charlatans that inhabit this cabinet have so much blood on their hands, that they have no option but to lie, and obfuscate and deflect to such an extent, that misleading and deceiving parliament is now absolutely the norm.

This is the most shameful, filthy, dishonourable and corrupt government this proud nation has ever had, and it contrasts all too starkly with the arresting and genuine compassion, generosity and love that the people of this nation have expressed and shown, through the great brexit con, Covid and now this horrible war. We are truly led by the least among us.
2000 Ukrainian refugees accepted, impossible barriers for war-fleeing innocent people, and 100,000 Britons, many of whom are facing an impossible and harrowing cost of living reality,  registered their willingness to offer these poor people, most of whom are women and children, a warm, safe and compassionate home on the FIRSt DAY, whilst Michael Gove bangs his fists in parliament and peddles yet more lies.. F@cking shame on them, and immense pride in the British public.

A fair summary cc.

Assuming this gets wrapped up along lines similar to what you’ve outlined, the next question is what do Sweden and Finland do next? Having a vote (and it will most likely need referenda) on joining NATO would have to be executed extremely rapidly to get in the club before Russia decides to act as they’ve threatened (although you have question Russia’s readiness after the current shitshow). If they opt not to go for membership it could be good for Putin’s home image as it will be presented as another bonus of the war in Ukraine. Russia therefore has a need to wrap up things in Ukraine quickly in order to be perceived as ready to act on the next ‘provocation’. That helps Ukraine’s deck of cards.

Quoted from Maringer

In not entirely unrelated news, Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe is apparently being released after 6 years.

I suspect this is an indication that we'll pay the Iranians back for those Chieftain tanks which were never supplied following the revolution, sanctions will be loosened and Iranian oil will start to flow once again quite soon.

Hopefully, a peaceful solution can be found in Ukraine but Putin may have really screwed over the Russian economy in the longer-term.

it has already been paid. Once the Vienna nuclear deal talks had sputtered to a halt UK decided they were no longer going to go in lockstep with the U.S. which had previously prevented the deal from being done
Within a week the money has been paid and she has been freed. And to think this could and should've been settled years ago ,which would've meant that she wouldn't have been detained in the first place..............

Interesting debate on the Moral Maze R4 tonight including a question posed on whether the British public's more proactive and welcoming response to aiding Ukraine and welcoming refugees compared to the response to Afghanistan and Syria was racist?

So why has there been a different reaction? Here is something that occured to me when young migrant men started to arrive across the channel from Syria and now from Afghanistan - why are you here, why aren't you fighting for your homeland? I have then tried to reconcile that and consider the ethics and morality of that thought. Of course, it's all more complex than that, but when it comes to the general perception of us Brits as a nation, of Ukrainian refugees against Afghan and Syrians migrants / refugees, it actually may be quite simple and I don't think it is race. On MM the differences in the perception of nation defending itself against an external aggressor compared to those who may be perceived as economic migrants was highlighted.

The bravery of the Ukrainian nation is out there in media all the time; all able bodied men between 18 and 60 are required to stay and fight. I personally marvel at this. I think this is part of the reason for a different response to the Ukrainian refugees - the men are fighting for every inch of their country, we need to welcome Ukrainian women and children.

Syria was a complex multi-factional civil war but Afghanistan is more clear cut. The Afghan army, unwisely with hindsight, were given 80 billion dollars worth of ordnance by the US and rolled over in days to the Taliban (who now have all those arms). If every non-Taliban aligned man between 18 and 60 had stood up to fight the Taliban for the better lives that their sisters, daughters and partners would have without the Taliban, would they have taken the country at all let alone so easily. Or maybe the male population didn't believe in those freedoms enough to fight.

It may also be, not race, but (argued on MM) that the Ukrainians are linked by us to the many eastern Europeans who now contribute massively to our economy. With the Poles, in this country in particular, there is a very strong connection - they stood up to the Nazis and the Russians, fought alongside us where they could stayed here after the war in huge numbers, and then as a nation stood up to the Soviets again through Lech Wałęsa.

And then there was was one witness (as they call them on MM) who seemed to pushing for some kind of John Lennon Imagine type utopia - very nice (and a great song) but with the current state of the world sadly it's away with fairies.

Worth a listen on catch-up.

Seems a pretty reasonable assessment. By extension could you apply the same logic to the reaction of the other east European countries who have welcomed Ukrainian refugees? Obviously there’s the added factor of their own position as potentially next on the list. With the complication of how the African and Asian refugees from Ukraine were dealt with.

Re the link to “to the many eastern Europeans who now contribute massively to our economy”, there are many, including some on here, who claimed they were not massively contributing.

Quoted from Limerick Mariner

Interesting debate on the Moral Maze R4 tonight including a question posed on whether the British public's more proactive and welcoming response to aiding Ukraine and welcoming refugees compared to the response to Afghanistan and Syria was racist?

So why has there been a different reaction? Here is something that occured to me when young migrant men started to arrive across the channel from Syria and now from Afghanistan - why are you here, why aren't you fighting for your homeland? I have then tried to reconcile that and consider the ethics and morality of that thought. Of course, it's all more complex than that, but when it comes to the general perception of us Brits as a nation, of Ukrainian refugees against Afghan and Syrians migrants / refugees, it actually may be quite simple and I don't think it is race. On MM the differences in the perception of nation defending itself against an external aggressor compared to those who may be perceived as economic migrants was highlighted.

The bravery of the Ukrainian nation is out there in media all the time; all able bodied men between 18 and 60 are required to stay and fight. I personally marvel at this. I think this is part of the reason for a different response to the Ukrainian refugees - the men are fighting for every inch of their country, we need to welcome Ukrainian women and children.

Syria was a complex multi-factional civil war but Afghanistan is more clear cut. The Afghan army, unwisely with hindsight, were given 80 billion dollars worth of ordnance by the US and rolled over in days to the Taliban (who now have all those arms). If every non-Taliban aligned man between 18 and 60 had stood up to fight the Taliban for the better lives that their sisters, daughters and partners would have without the Taliban, would they have taken the country at all let alone so easily. Or maybe the male population didn't believe in those freedoms enough to fight.

It may also be, not race, but (argued on MM) that the Ukrainians are linked by us to the many eastern Europeans who now contribute massively to our economy. With the Poles, in this country in particular, there is a very strong connection - they stood up to the Nazis and the Russians, fought alongside us where they could stayed here after the war in huge numbers, and then as a nation stood up to the Soviets again through Lech Wałęsa.

And then there was was one witness (as they call them on MM) who seemed to pushing for some kind of John Lennon Imagine type utopia - very nice (and a great song) but with the current state of the world sadly it's away with fairies.

Worth a listen on catch-up.

Interesting post. Although I do take issue with the old ‘they stood up to the Nazis and the Russians’ storyline! I don’t know if they have started teaching this in schools yet but I’m not in favour of whitewashing history.

Quoted from Humbercod

Interesting post. Although I do take issue with the old ‘they stood up to the Nazis and the Russians’ storyline! I don’t know if they have started teaching this in schools yet but I’m not in favour of whitewashing history.

It fits our propaganda at the moment however the Ukranian Nazis from WW2 were  notoriously savage toward Jews.
What's a little revisionist writing of history to fit the narrative though, we all lap it up because everything is black and white and we are supporting the good guys aren't we ?

I agree if history is presented in anything but a nuanced way it is usually wrong. It’s fair to say there was a spectrum of responses to WWII in Ukraine. Some nationalists jumped on the chance to stick one on the Soviets, some went further and were murderous to Jews, Bolsheviks and many others, some fought against both Soviets and Nazis without being Nazi-like, some were wholly loyal to the SU. The problem comes when the exploits of one group in WWII (80 years ago) are used to justify the invasion.

The stories about Nazis in Ukraine are being propagated by Moscow to die doubt in other countries. Make enough people doubt in order to weaken resolve. Standard operating procedure. It’s all part of the wider Maskirovka doctrine.

Quoted from Humbercod

Interesting post. Although I do take issue with the old ‘they stood up to the Nazis and the Russians’ storyline! I don’t know if they have started teaching this in schools yet but I’m not in favour of whitewashing history.

I maybe wasn’t clear that was a reference to the Poles in WW2 not the Ukrainians.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

I agree if history is presented in anything but a nuanced way it is usually wrong. It’s fair to say there was a spectrum of responses to WWII in Ukraine. Some nationalists jumped on the chance to stick one on the Soviets, some went further and were murderous to Jews, Bolsheviks and many others, some fought against both Soviets and Nazis without being Nazi-like, some were wholly loyal to the SU. The problem comes when the exploits of one group in WWII (80 years ago) are used to justify the invasion.

The stories about Nazis in Ukraine are being propagated by Moscow to die doubt in other countries. Make enough people doubt in order to weaken resolve. Standard operating procedure. It’s all part of the wider Maskirovka doctrine.

Absolutely both sides using the same event with a different narrative, what we are told by our media will always colour our views, history as they say is written by the victors, but when the victors are both us and Russia there are still two tales of the same event. And no country likes looking back at the less savoury episodes of their own history. The Russians are not forward in mentioning the famine caused by Stalin that resulted in similar Ukrainian deaths in the 1930’s

‘Ah but….that was the Soviet Union. A different state. Not modern Russia.’

When it suits the RF is the inheritor of the Russian Empire and the USSR. They even claim the Kievan Rus when it suits for God’s sake. All the nasty stuff. No no no. Nothing to do with them.

Just like Brexit.

https://www.thejournal.ie/boris-johnson-compares-ukraine-brexit-5715580-Mar2022/

Seems the Tsar is bringing in Syrian troops. Maybe he’s found Russians don’t want to kill their neighbours enough. Too closely related (literally in many cases). So he’s resorting to the age old technique of using soldiers from elsewhere.

Quoted from Stadium

Just like Brexit.

https://www.thejournal.ie/boris-johnson-compares-ukraine-brexit-5715580-Mar2022/

What an absolute cV^t, an embarrassment to us all. The Brexit vote was won a small majority, opposed strongly in Scotland and N Ireland and he makes it out as some kind national mobilisation, meanwhile Putin rubbed his hands with glee after helping fund it.  Took my mum to a Gilbert and Sullivan show last night - before the start we were asked to do a minutes silence and there was collection, I get home and watch France v England on catch-up, the French have a sunflower on their training tops, there is a minutes applause and Ukrainian flags on the pitch before the start - everywhere across Europe the solidarity is immense and this pr!ck comes out with that bullshit.

What a shame...

BREAKING NEWS

Moskva, the flagship of Russia's Black Sea Fleet has sunk according to Russia's defence ministry.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61114843

Quoted from promotion plaice

What a shame...

BREAKING NEWS

Moskva, the flagship of Russia's Black Sea Fleet has sunk according to Russia's defence ministry.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61114843

it hasn't sunk really  

ps really interesting post by Limerick - it chimes with the release of the Operation Mincemeat film .i think we 'get' what Ukr is doing - there are so many parallels with 75 years ago. We both stand alone, outnumbered and outgunned, but by willpower, ingenuity, bloody mindedness ,deception and intelligence we prevail. i hope us the poles and the Ukrainians can become a really strong partnership in the future - they truly deserve our 100% support

Slavia Ukraini!

Not going as planned for Putin is it, doubt he expected the West to stick together like it has.

Looks like it's going to be a long drawn out war unfortunately.

Quoted from Limerick Mariner

What an absolute cV^t, an embarrassment to us all. The Brexit vote was won a small majority, opposed strongly in Scotland and N Ireland and he makes it out as some kind national mobilisation, meanwhile Putin rubbed his hands with glee after helping fund it.  Took my mum to a Gilbert and Sullivan show last night - before the start we were asked to do a minutes silence and there was collection, I get home and watch France v England on catch-up, the French have a sunflower on their training tops, there is a minutes applause and Ukrainian flags on the pitch before the start - everywhere across Europe the solidarity is immense and this pr!ck comes out with that bullshit.

You are a saddo. I suppose living in a town smelling of dogfood does that to you.

Putin “not bluffing” about use of nuclear weapons if Russian territory (or declared territory) is threatened. Although he has waited until the eyes of the world have finished looking at London and Windsor to announce it - and hasn’t used then whilst Belogrod and Crimea has been taking a pounding from Western manufactured artillery.

Quoted from promotion plaice

Not going as planned for Putin is it, doubt he expected the West to stick together like it has.

Looks like it's going to be a long drawn out war unfortunately.

No, it won’t be a long drawn out war. Russia are close to military collapse. And they won’t use nuclear weapons either. Not because Putin won’t want to though. Putin will be overthrown in some sort of coup/revolution when the sh1t really hits the fan for them which will cause a domino effect in countries and annexed territories such as Belarus, South Ossetia and Crimea where the dictators are propped up by support from Russia.

The end result will be a much weakened Russia (militarily and economically) with all its European neighbours (such as Ukraine, Moldova and a democratic Belarus) members of NATO and seeking EU membership. Russia will never recover from it as the natural resources that have strengthened it will become less and less relevant to the world as it moves away from carbon fuels.

An interesting twitter thread from an American former military guy who has observed the Russian training of recruits first-hand:



TLDR: The Russians don't have anywhere near the training facilities, resources or experience to mobilise 300K soldiers. That was all lost after the fall of the USSR and a massive cut in spending. Even if they manage to get them onto the battlefield, they'll be cannon-fodder.

Putin announces he’s annexed the four regions he said he would, Zelenskyy announces Ukraine has applied for accelerated membership of NATO. NATO don’t allow nations already involved in conflict to join so if they accept then they’ve verified Putin’s annexations.

Quoted from LH

Putin announces he’s annexed the four regions he said he would, Zelenskyy announces Ukraine has applied for accelerated membership of NATO. NATO don’t allow nations already involved in conflict to join so if they accept then they’ve verified Putin’s annexations.

Completely irrelevant. Russia are close to military collapse. Ukraine will join NATO (along with Georgia) once that happens.

Russia can’t win. It’s just the manner and means of their defeat in Ukraine left to be decided. My prediction: the overthrow of Putin.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Completely irrelevant. Russia are close to military collapse. Ukraine will join NATO (along with Georgia) once that happens.

Russia can’t win. It’s just the manner and means of their defeat in Ukraine left to be decided. My prediction: the overthrow of Putin.

They are at risk of collapse in the special military operation zone yes. If he decides the now extended Russian state is at risk it could mean a declaration of war and the calling up of the 2 million reserves they have to fight it. You’re probably right that end with himl being overthrown but that is probably a considerable time away.

BREAKING NEWS

Russia withdraws troops from Lyman, strategic town in region Putin annexed.

Quoted from LH

They are at risk of collapse in the special military operation zone yes. If he decides the now extended Russian state is at risk it could mean a declaration of war and the calling up of the 2 million reserves they have to fight it. You’re probably right that end with himl being overthrown but that is probably a considerable time away.

Another massive mistake from Putin, the Russians have got things wrong from day one thinking it would be like it was in Crimea. Long wars are never popular and this one will see the end of the Putin era, however who comes next may be far worse, whoever it is will not want to seem weak in the eyes of the world and the wests ideas of regime change in Iraq and Libya have only opened the doors to chaos

Ukraine strike the Kerch bridge which is the only bridge linking Crimea to mainland  Russia. Maybe a DunKerch moment coming for the Russian forces?

Russia now accuses the UK of being involved in explosions on the Nord Stream gas pipelines as well as of helping Ukraine plan a drone attack on Moscow’s Black Sea Fleet in the Crimean port of Sevastopol.

International Criminal Court issues arrest warrant for Vladimir Putin over war crimes.

Dont really have a big knowledge of this subject tbh
The only two things I have thought is :

Things have got more expensive for us (bad)
And taking on the whole western world seems reckless and a bad tactic from Vladimir ?

Apart from those the only thing thats interested me about Russia was the Salisbury poisonings ,of which there were a couple of good shows, Abramovich with his yachts and I always wanted to visit St Petersburg -not sure if that will be possible now .

Quoted from promotion plaice

International Criminal Court issues arrest warrant for Vladimir Putin over war crimes.

Cool, now do Blair

keep an eye on twitter tonight. Russian telegram channels in near melt down. Ukr forces here, there and everywhere, leading on from thir success s.w. of Bakhmut yesterday

Don’t worry about what’s happening with the war - Trump will have it solved in 24 hours!

Quoted from Sandford1981

Don’t worry about what’s happening with the war - Trump will have it solved in 24 hours!

There wouldn't have ever been any invasion if the election wasn't stolen from Trump by extreme leftist sleepy Joe, the woke elites and the deep state, so says the peoples president.

BOG ALERT checkout twitter tonight.seeuous excrement going down in RU Civil war possible?

Cynically I would say this is the ground being laid for the Russians doing something seriously abhorrent and then blaming Wagner for it.

The advances map in Ukraine is looking very similar to the opening credits of Dad’s Army today. 7km advances in Ukraine over 18 months, 350km back on themselves towards Moscow over the last 24hrs!

Quoted from Manchester Mariner

There wouldn't have ever been any invasion if the election wasn't stolen from Trump by extreme leftist sleepy Joe, the woke elites and the deep state, so says the peoples president.

Well let’s look back Under Bush - Putin invades Georgia
What about Obama - Putin invades Crimea
What about Trump - Putin back in his box
What about Sleepy Joe - Putin invades Ukraine

I think the people’s president makes a good point.

Back after a break with the characteristically ludicrous. Go on. Make a case for Trump.

A bit of a WTF feel to the whole situation. Wagner driving up the road towards Moscow, mostly unimpeded, but with no realistic way of actually taking power if they got there and then, all of a sudden, Prigozhin agrees to stop and urine off to Belarus. How long before he falls out of one of those notoriously unstable Russian-built windows which oligarchs keep accidentally falling out of when they fall out of favour?

Wonder if he negotiated the release of his family or something similar? Weird all round.

Think he may have been expecting the Russian people to sense their moment had come and rise up, but it didn't happen and self preservation kicked in as it often does with the likes of Prigozhin.

He's now firmly on Putin's sh1t list and can't see him lasting too long now.

Quoted from Humbercod

Well let’s look back Under Bush - Putin invades Georgia
What about Obama - Putin invades Crimea
What about Trump - Putin back in his box
What about Sleepy Joe - Putin invades Ukraine

I think the people’s president makes a good point.

Remind us all who was President of the United States when Putin launches a chemical attack on UK soil.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Remind us all who was President of the United States when Putin launches a chemical attack on UK soil.

WTF 🤯

Quoted from ginnywings

Think he may have been expecting the Russian people to sense their moment had come and rise up, but it didn't happen and self preservation kicked in as it often does with the likes of Prigozhin.

He's now firmly on Putin's sh1t list and can't see him lasting too long now.

Ginny’s expert knowledge crashes once again 😂
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/10/wagner-boss-met-vladimir-putin-five-days-after-mutiny-kremlin-yevgeny-prigozhin

Quoted from Humbercod

Ginny’s expert knowledge crashes once again 😂
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/10/wagner-boss-met-vladimir-putin-five-days-after-mutiny-kremlin-yevgeny-prigozhin

Give it time.

Quoted from ginnywings

Give it time.

Yes. Unmaintained window frames still take some time to deteriorate - once timber goes though just lean on the glass and you fall through it…

Quoted from ginnywings

Give it time.

Don’t you ever get fed with being wrong 😂

Quoted from Humbercod

Don’t you ever get fed with being wrong 😂

Says the numpty who was convinced Russia weren’t going to invade Ukraine. Your initial posts on this thread are the dictionary definition of being wrong.

Quoted from Humbercod

Don’t you ever get fed with being wrong 😂

The Irony-o-meter has broken again.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Says the numpty who was convinced Russia weren’t going to invade Ukraine. Your initial posts on this thread are the dictionary definition of being wrong.

🛎️ end

Quoted from Humbercod

🛎️ end

If you don’t like what you see when somebody holds up a mirror in front of you don’t blame them.

You complained on the ‘Tory vermin’ thread that I’d insulted and abused you, simply because I remarked that you were an idiot - a palpable, observable reality - and then you call someone a bell end, which is actually more insulting and abusive. Stop being such a snowflake hypocrite, and give the irony-o-meter a fair chance to reset.

Quoted from chaos33

You complained on the ‘Tory vermin’ thread that I’d insulted and abused you, simply because I remarked that you were an idiot - a palpable, observable reality - and then you call someone a bell end, which is actually more insulting and abusive. Stop being such a snowflake hypocrite, and give the irony-o-meter a fair chance to reset.

He doesn’t offer anything but jump on your bandwagon quite pathetic really.. I complained of no such thing!
Do you not get bored with being wrong?

Quoted from chaos33

You complained on the ‘Tory vermin’ thread that I’d insulted and abused you, simply because I remarked that you were an idiot - a palpable, observable reality - and then you call someone a bell end, which is actually more insulting and abusive. Stop being such a snowflake hypocrite, and give the irony-o-meter a fair chance to reset.

Come on chaos33, leave the snowflake alone.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Come on chaos33, leave the snowflake alone.

Get a room 🤮

Quoted from Humbercod

He doesn’t offer anything but jump on your bandwagon quite pathetic really.. I complained of no such thing!
Do you not get bored with being wrong?

This is what you said, word for word….

“Why do you have to resort to being abusive?”.
This was before you went on to call someone a ‘bell end’.

Quoted from chaos33

This is what you said, word for word….

“Why do you have to resort to being abusive?”.
This was before you went on to call someone a ‘bell end’.

You mean just after he called me a childish name?
I have a right of reply if someone gives it I will give back, I didn’t start with the petty abuse, let’s just be adults and try and respect one another’s rights to an opinion eh?

Quoted from Humbercod

You mean just after he called me a childish name?
I have a right of reply if someone gives it I will give back, I didn’t start with the petty abuse, let’s just be adults and try and respect one another’s rights to an opinion eh?

So what did I call you prior to you calling me a bell end?

You started that abuse.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

So what did I call you prior to you calling me a bell end?

You started that abuse.

Ffs this is pathetic!
You can scroll back a page you know, and see where you jumped on my reply to someone else! and started with the silly name calling.
Forget it move on.

Quoted from ginnywings

Give it time.

Edit: Semi Retired local chippy?
You’ve been outed Ginny!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-66241564

Quoted from Sandford1981

Retired local chippy?
You’ve been outed Ginny!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-66241564

Semi retired.  ;)

Inevitably, Prighozin has met his maker.

Good riddance. Hopefully Putin next.

An air crash seems a bit more than we usually expect in Russia. People who displease Putin usually have the misfortune to fall out of windows of tall buildings. There weren't a load of other Wagner-ites on this plane, by any chance?

Quoted from Maringer

An air crash seems a bit more than we usually expect in Russia. People who displease Putin usually have the misfortune to fall out of windows of tall buildings. There weren't a load of other Wagner-ites on this plane, by any chance?

If not Wagnerites - 9 people - a completely trifling amount of collateral damage that…on the Putin scale

It’s unbelievable it took Putin that long.

Radio Humberside called Fenty a pillock and he had Philip Day cauterising the BBC in under an hour.

Revenge is best served cold .  Putin 2023

The Russian general, Surovkin, who was pally with Prighozin and hasn't been seen since the attempted coup has apparently been relieved of his duties now as well. I suspect that Putin and his cronies have been trying to get to the bottom of exactly who was against them and who wasn't and this has led to the delay in dealing with Prighozin.

Anything which helps to degrade the Russian forces is good with me. If Ukraine was given the aircraft and long-range missiles they required and have been asking for since last year, they'd be able to make a quicker move against the Russian defences. As it stands, we're asking them to fight a war in a way which we would never even attempt and it will mean it is long and drawn out.

Not sure if I've recommended him before, but there's a Professor of Strategic Studies, Phillips O'Brien who posts some really good stuff on twitter and substack. Really interesting to read analysis of what is going on.

While Russia are getting very little damage in their own country Putin will carry on regardless.

If Ukraine could damage  Russia like they are doing to Ukraine  Putin will come under pressure to end the conflict.

Giving arms to Ukraine with restrictions on where they are allowed to use them is just prolonging the war and more deaths on both sides.

Give them to tools to do the job properly.

They've got to win their own territory back first, Pete. The Russian army might be in a shambles, but it's still massive and Ukraine only have so many resources. They'll definitely be aiming to get Crimea back, hence the attacks on the Kersch bridge, but otherwise, it doesn't make sense for them to waste much in the way of resources on the Russian mainland which is vast. Hitting a few sites in Moscow with cheap drones is one thing. Using conventional stuff anywhere but the front line (or to hit the Russian logistics) is a waste. Especially when they are reliant on not hitting the mainland to be provided with the F-16s they desperately need.

It’s amazing the propaganda we receive regarding Russia! If we had a leader like Putin this country wouldn’t be heading towards a 3rd world cesspit.

Quoted from Humbercod

It’s amazing the propaganda we receive regarding Russia! If we had a leader like Putin this country wouldn’t be heading towards a 3rd world cesspit.

And the opposition would be dead or in prison along with a lot of journalists and anyone who dares to raise a question about this hypothetical British version of Putin.

So you're saying that Britain needs a dictator and no real democracy.

That nice Mr. Putin, known for killing off his political opponents, invading neighbouring countries, abducting many thousands of Ukrainian children and 're-educating' them in Russia etc etc. All the while overseeing the looting of his own country by his chosen oligarchs.

Yep, that's what Humbo wants. A psychotic dictator. He'll probably weep tears of sorrow when the Russians eventually get booted out of Crimea and, eventually, the rest of Ukraine. Has he started blaming the Ukrainians for being invaded yet? That's usually the next step with these nutjobs.

When Putin joined the secret service he had little money.

Now he has houses worth millions ,boats worth millions and cars worth millions and is the richest man in Russia.

Now where did it all come from ?

Wake up you Russians he is taking the urine  and you have let him take you all for a ride.

I think what Humbo really wants, is to see us all frothing at the mouth, replying to his ridiculously provocative ramblings.

I'm not playing.

It must be very humiliating for Putin to travel 1,000's 0f miles across Russia to ask for aid from Kim Jong Un, from probably the smallest communest country in the world.