£5m wage bill!

[url]https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/status/1486669210189246466?t=SEKPksUbQt2z9tswRmqRJA&s=19[/url]

Is anyone shocked by that? What’s the average in League 1?

Quoted from aldi_01

Is anyone shocked by that? What’s the average in League 1?

98% of their income is spent on wages which isn't sustainable but when you look at the teams in that league at the moment such as Ipswich, Sunderland, Sheffield Wednesday, Wigan, Charlton, Portsmouth.

3 from Barnsley, Derby, Peterborough, Reading, Cardiff and maybe a couple of others look set to join most of those teams next season so I would imagine that a "competitive budget" at that level is a huge step up from League 2.

Football club accounts always make me smile. Wages are always a ridiculous percentage of the turnover, no matter how much money is coming in. I think there is nominally some sort of wage cap as well that they have to comply with.

As many have said before, the test will come after the bubble on the pitch has burst.

Credit to Lincoln, they sold out all available season tickets last summer and continue to get gates that are pretty close to home capacity.  But that's on the back of 5 years of continued improvement:

16/17 - Promotion from Conference
17/18 - League Two Play-Offs
18/19 - League Two Winners
19/20 - League One mid-table
20/21 - League One Play-Offs

The season before they won the Conference they averaged less than 2,500 a game.  In fact you have to go back as far as their last season in League Two before relegation (10/11) before they got an average over 2,500.    

That's 6,000 extra tickets they've sold each week as a result of their success.  Really basic maths but lets say average ticket is £15 which brings in around £90,000 extra for each game.  Over the year that's £2.25million.  But that's also 6,000 fans, or £2.25 million a year, that has only ever known success and/or improvement.

Without significant improvement this will be the first year for those 6,000 where the club hasn't improved.  How will they react to that?  Lincoln are only 4 points above the relegation places, how many ticket sales will they lose with a relegation?

It's not a criticism of their approach, far from it.  I think they've got a model that has clearly worked well for them and I can only look on enviously at their position.  I do just wonder how sustained it is.  Those financial figures definitely aren't sustainable.  A struggling side isn't going to have as many sellable assets and can they rely on share issues forever?  

Lincoln, running at a loss heading back to FBL division 4!

Quoted from diehardmariner

As many have said before, the test will come after the bubble on the pitch has burst.

Credit to Lincoln, they sold out all available season tickets last summer and continue to get gates that are pretty close to home capacity.  But that's on the back of 5 years of continued improvement:

16/17 - Promotion from Conference
17/18 - League Two Play-Offs
18/19 - League Two Winners
19/20 - League One mid-table
20/21 - League One Play-Offs

The season before they won the Conference they averaged less than 2,500 a game.  In fact you have to go back as far as their last season in League Two before relegation (10/11) before they got an average over 2,500.    

That's 6,000 extra tickets they've sold each week as a result of their success.  Really basic maths but lets say average ticket is £15 which brings in around £90,000 extra for each game.  Over the year that's £2.25million.  But that's also 6,000 fans, or £2.25 million a year, that has only ever known success and/or improvement.

Without significant improvement this will be the first year for those 6,000 where the club hasn't improved.  How will they react to that?  Lincoln are only 4 points above the relegation places, how many ticket sales will they lose with a relegation?

It's not a criticism of their approach, far from it.  I think they've got a model that has clearly worked well for them and I can only look on enviously at their position.  I do just wonder how sustained it is.  Those financial figures definitely aren't sustainable.  A struggling side isn't going to have as many sellable assets and can they rely on share issues forever?  

They had a fantastic run in the FA Cup too which not only earned them some great revenue but the backing from the City. People got behind them and as we've seen ourselves this season, if there's a positive catalyst then people will try to support it. The real trick is maintaining that positivity month on month, year on year. Like you've said though, if that bubble has burst and they've plateaued it will be interesting to see what the next 5 years has in store for them.  

Pretty impressive in the circumstances.
£5.1 m turnover covering a season when there where no spectators and no mat day commercial revenue.
There ownership model of having a large number of local business owners  and businesses as investors has produced around £10m share capital to fund the club and much larger commercial revenue then our model of one or two controlling owners .

They have investors from both South Africa and more recently the USA and the former Coventry and USA international Landon Donovan has a role at the club but not quite sure what it is. The manager has spoken on reducing their wage bill and maybe that why they haven’t had the same quality loan signings this season.

There seems no disillusionment in the fan base that I’ve detected and their home crowds don’t look like falling significantly in the near future. Guy whose Chairman seems a smart cookie and keeps attracting new investment so unfortunately their bubble isn’t going to burst just yet so enduring them taking the urine will have to be suffered for quite some time I fear.

The figure of £1.4m looks far worse than it actually is … it doesn’t include £900k of investment from the USA and £500k (allegedly) from the sale of Tayo Edun to Blackburn.

Gates have held up remarkably well considering we’ve only won 3 home games in 13. The incomings during the January window namely Marquis (Portsmouth) Whittaker & Cullen (Swansea) have fitted in well, plus our 4 first choice Central Defenders have been injured (Walsh, Jackson, Eyoma & Montsma) as is club captain and pivotal player Bridcutt. Ben House (Eastleigh) and Charley Kendall (Eastbourne) are interesting permanents too.

A mid-table finish will be more than acceptable this term, but the future is definitely still very bright, as beating Sunderland 3-1 at the Stadium of Light shows.

Will be interesting to see the financial state of the rest of this division when their accounts are released.

Quoted from NorfolkImp

The figure of £1.4m looks far worse than it actually is … it doesn’t include £900k of investment from the USA and £500k (allegedly) from the sale of Tayo Edun to Blackburn.

Gates have held up remarkably well considering we’ve only won 3 home games in 13. The incomings during the January window namely Marquis (Portsmouth) Whittaker & Cullen (Swansea) have fitted in well, plus our 4 first choice Central Defenders have been injured (Walsh, Jackson, Eyoma & Montsma) as is club captain and pivotal player Bridcutt. Ben House (Eastleigh) and Charley Kendall (Eastbourne) are interesting permanents too.

A mid-table finish will be more than acceptable this term, but the future is definitely still very bright, as beating Sunderland 3-1 at the Stadium of Light shows.

Will be interesting to see the financial state of the rest of this division when their accounts are released.

I don't think Lincoln are heading to the Championship any time soon. How long do you think people will keep investing millions of pounds for a lower half L1 team? I'd be very worried that fans will drop off next season and you'll have problems if they do, but to be fair they've held up well despite poor form so far.

Not sure how much further you think Lincoln can go than mid table finishes. There's a lot of very big clubs in that division and you surely can't expect to compete with them long term on 8k crowds...

Quoted from NorfolkImp

The figure of £1.4m looks far worse than it actually is … it doesn’t include £900k of investment from the USA and £500k (allegedly) from the sale of Tayo Edun to Blackburn.

Gates have held up remarkably well considering we’ve only won 3 home games in 13. The incomings during the January window namely Marquis (Portsmouth) Whittaker & Cullen (Swansea) have fitted in well, plus our 4 first choice Central Defenders have been injured (Walsh, Jackson, Eyoma & Montsma) as is club captain and pivotal player Bridcutt. Ben House (Eastleigh) and Charley Kendall (Eastbourne) are interesting permanents too.

A mid-table finish will be more than acceptable this term, but the future is definitely still very bright, as beating Sunderland 3-1 at the Stadium of Light shows.

Will be interesting to see the financial state of the rest of this division when their accounts are released.

But what are the average walk-up sales per game averaging after deducting ST holders and away fans - 1,500? If so they are lower than our average walk-ups this season which will be circa 2k+ (but starting to fall rapidly now). ST sales next season after a moderate finish this season will be the acid test. You'll still be ahead of us and Scunny combined mind.

Look forward to the day we'll meet again in the League one sunny day...

Quoted from HerveJosse

Pretty impressive in the circumstances.
£5.1 m turnover covering a season when there where no spectators and no mat day commercial revenue.
There ownership model of having a large number of local business owners  and businesses as investors has produced around £10m share capital to fund the club and much larger commercial revenue then our model of one or two controlling owners .

With their South African majority share holders.

Quoted from mariner91

With their South African majority share holders.

And American investors; maybe the Americans are from Lincoln, Nebraska?

Incredibly jealous of Lincoln tbh. Hopefully one day it will be us again

Quoted from NorfolkImp

The figure of £1.4m looks far worse than it actually is … it doesn’t include £900k of investment from the USA and £500k (allegedly) from the sale of Tayo Edun to Blackburn.

Gates have held up remarkably well considering we’ve only won 3 home games in 13. The incomings during the January window namely Marquis (Portsmouth) Whittaker & Cullen (Swansea) have fitted in well, plus our 4 first choice Central Defenders have been injured (Walsh, Jackson, Eyoma & Montsma) as is club captain and pivotal player Bridcutt. Ben House (Eastleigh) and Charley Kendall (Eastbourne) are interesting permanents too.

A mid-table finish will be more than acceptable this term, but the future is definitely still very bright, as beating Sunderland 3-1 at the Stadium of Light shows.

Will be interesting to see the financial state of the rest of this division when their accounts are released.

What does a 2-1 loss at home to midtable Burton Albion show?

Quoted from mariner91

What does a 2-1 loss at home to midtable Burton Albion show?

That Sunderland are pants. They lost 6-0 today, so Lincoln winning there wasn't the great result it appears.

Quoted from ginnywings

That Sunderland are pants. They lost 6-0 today, so Lincoln winning there wasn't the great result it appears.

Well winning away to a club that size and with that history with 30k inside, just like last season in the Play-off semis, is still something to ‘pinch yourself’ about …. in comparison to losing to the likes of Bromley of course.

I’ll settle for being an established ‘3rd Tier’ as quite frankly The Championship looks far too expensive to compete in, for a club of our size.

Didnt realise Lincoln signed Marquis. Good player

Blimey remember when we used to beat Sunderland fairly regularly in the 90s  :'(

Quoted from NorfolkImp

Well winning away to a club that size and with that history with 30k inside, just like last season in the Play-off semis, is still something to ‘pinch yourself’ about …. in comparison to losing to the likes of Bromley of course.

I’ll settle for being an established ‘3rd Tier’ as quite frankly The Championship looks far too expensive to compete in, for a club of our size.

Yeah, it was a good result regardless and a bit of tongue in cheek by me, but they are pretty poor at the moment.

Nice of you to mention losing to Bromley, so touche to you.  ;)

I've got no axe to grind with Lincoln. You have dragged yourselves out of the dead pool and turned the club around massively. Hope we can do the same with our new owners.

15 years ago there were 4 Lincolnshire teams in the Football League. Next year there could be just one.

Quoted from GrimRob

15 years ago there were 4 Lincolnshire teams in the Football League. Next year there could be just one.

Yes, part of me thinks that's pretty sad, when you consider the 3 way battle for promotion back in say 1972, when only half a dozen points separated Town (Champions) Scunny (4th) and Imps (5th) with attendances of 15 or 16 thousand.

On the other hand, we might be able/continue to attract youngsters from places like Caistor, Kirton Lindsey and Skegness into supporting their 'local' EFL team?

Quoted from NorfolkImp

Yes, part of me thinks that's pretty sad, when you consider the 3 way battle for promotion back in say 1972, when only half a dozen points separated Town (Champions) Scunny (4th) and Imps (5th) with attendances of 15 or 16 thousand.

On the other hand, we might be able/continue to attract youngsters from places like Caistor, Kirton Lindsey and Skegness into supporting their 'local' EFL team?

We'll fight you at Caistor, Vladimir, that's ours and no plants of people walking around in Imps shirts to give the impression it's yours already...surely Skeg and KL are already yours like the Crimea

John Marquis scored 3 goals for Donney at BP when they got promoted. He looked everything that you could hope for in a lower-League striker.

Quoted from NorfolkImp

Yes, part of me thinks that's pretty sad, when you consider the 3 way battle for promotion back in say 1972, when only half a dozen points separated Town (Champions) Scunny (4th) and Imps (5th) with attendances of 15 or 16 thousand.

On the other hand, we might be able/continue to attract youngsters from places like Caistor, Kirton Lindsey and Skegness into supporting their 'local' EFL team?

I would probably do the same in your shoes, but there is nearly always a sting in the tail of your posts. You make a general point then put the knife in!

Yes, we get it; you have been on a fantastic run, with good owners and great investment and beating people 3-0 in front of 30,000 and as you say will probably have first dibs of good localish players blah blah.

Football is cyclical and although we have had a torrid time of it for nearly 20 years with a particularly ghastly owner, we will be back.

The sting in this post is despite all your good work you have not made it further than league 1 - even Scunthorpe managed better than that when they were on the up!  

Quoted from TownSNAFU5

John Marquis scored 3 goals for Donney at BP when they got promoted. He looked everything that you could hope for in a lower-League striker.

That was with the Marcus Bignot organised defense mind...

Quoted from Limerick Mariner

That was with the Marcus Bignot organised defense mind...

The sheer randomness of Bignot’s tactical planning and team selection was something to be behold. It would either be so bad that we’d take an absolute tanking (such as that 5-1 defeat at home to Donny), or it would completely bamboozle the opposition and the 3 points would find their way to us.

Plymouth and Carlisle away spring to mind in particular, and it’s easy to forget that Bignot’s final game was a 2-0 win away at eventual play-off winners Blackpool.

Donny at home was of course when Bignot opted to give a first start to Dan Jones.

Jones, signed as one for the future, has since gone onto have a decent career at left-back/left side centre-back and is currently at Port Vale, where he kept Danny Amos out the starting line-up this season.

Of course, Jones made his full debut for Town in a central-midfield.  Why?  Well Bignot said he'd seen that Jones had a decent left peg in training.   Despite taking the lead, Town got dicked and completely over-run in a really bizarre midfield system that I think was intended to be a diamond but ended up looking more like a fried egg, Craig Disley sat on the bench throughout.

Marquis took the plaudits but it was a Gary McSheffrey pulling the strings behind that ran the show.  12 months later he'd be blowing out of his bottom as Town got dicked 4-0 at, former club, Coventry.  Soon to never be seen again.

Quoted from Poojah

The sheer randomness of Bignot’s tactical planning and team selection was something to be behold. It would either be so bad that we’d take an absolute tanking (such as that 5-1 defeat at home to Donny), or it would completely bamboozle the opposition and the 3 points would find their way to us.

Plymouth and Carlisle away spring to mind in particular, and it’s easy to forget that Bignot’s final game was a 2-0 win away at eventual play-off winners Blackpool.

Randomness is an established game-theoretic tactic - didn't it save us from nuclear war when Lyndon Johnson got his member out in a meeting with the Soviets - if he does that he might actually press the red button. Possibly apocryphal, but he did get it out and wave it about alot, which would be unsettling in any negotiation.

Quoted from Limerick Mariner

Randomness is an established game-theoretic tactic - didn't it save us from nuclear war when Lyndon Johnson got his member out in a meeting with the Soviets - if he does that he might actually press the red button. Possibly apocryphal, but he did get it out and wave it about alot, which would be unsettling in any negotiation.

Sorry but seeing the words “Johnson”, “nob out”, “soviets” and “nuclear war” in the same sentence is giving me sweaty palms given our illustrious leader’s forthcoming trip to the region.

Let’s just hope he can be forced out of power before he has time to unzip…

Quoted from diehardmariner

Donny at home was of course when Bignot opted to give a first start to Dan Jones.

Jones, signed as one for the future, has since gone onto have a decent career at left-back/left side centre-back and is currently at Port Vale, where he kept Danny Amos out the starting line-up this season.

Of course, Jones made his full debut for Town in a central-midfield.  Why?  Well Bignot said he'd seen that Jones had a decent left peg in training.   Despite taking the lead, Town got dicked and completely over-run in a really bizarre midfield system that I think was intended to be a diamond but ended up looking more like a fried egg, Craig Disley sat on the bench throughout.

Marquis took the plaudits but it was a Gary McSheffrey pulling the strings behind that ran the show.  12 months later he'd be blowing out of his bottom as Town got dicked 4-0 at, former club, Coventry.  Soon to never be seen again.

I remember Bignot saying that he liked to put players in unfamiliar positions to see how they coped and test their mettle.

He certainly tested that theory to destruction.

He was barmy wasn't he?

Quoted from ginnywings

I remember Bignot saying that he liked to put players in unfamiliar positions to see how they coped and test their mettle.

He certainly tested that theory to destruction.

He was barmy wasn't he?

Whereas Holloway was a flipping charlatan, Bignot was crackers. Absolute nutcase…

The other thing to remember is that Bignot signed about 5 central midfielders for some reason. And then played a defender in midfield.

Bignot was an absolute lunatic, his team selections looked as so it was from Bignot's bingo, his tactics as previously stated were so bizarre that it either led to us getting battered or it was bizarre it totally outfoxed the oppositon which led to a win, Plymouth away comes to mind.

Quoted from ginnywings

I remember Bignot saying that he liked to put players in unfamiliar positions to see how they coped and test their mettle.

He certainly tested that theory to destruction.

He was barmy wasn't he?

I kinda get the thinking, very loosely.  If you've got a young right winger, for example, who isn't tracking back and helping out his full-back then putting him at full-back is a great way of getting him to appreciate why he needs to track back.  Equally so it gives an insight into what a full-back sees, which can only be of advantage when trying to exploit that position.  

Also the great Ajax and Dutch sides of the 70's were famous for their flexibility when it came to formations and positions.  

But, nah.  I'm in full agreement with you, he was just bonkers.

Quoted from diehardmariner

I kinda get the thinking, very loosely.  If you've got a young right winger, for example, who isn't tracking back and helping out his full-back then putting him at full-back is a great way of getting him to appreciate why he needs to track back.  Equally so it gives an insight into what a full-back sees, which can only be of advantage when trying to exploit that position.  

Also the great Ajax and Dutch sides of the 70's were famous for their flexibility when it came to formations and positions.  

But, nah.  I'm in full agreement with you, he was just bonkers.

I actually think Peter Bore played his best football for us at right back. He was a great athlete, had decent close control and could finish which is probably why he started out as a striker but he always struck me as being a bit slow in thought and deed.

On the wing and up front you need to be thinking quickly but when he moved back and became an attacking full back, he often had the time and could see the space ahead of him. He was outstanding against Mansfield at home when he scored a hat-trick from right back.

A few years back I was speaking to someone who played in the same Town team as Peter Bore, I'll not name him as it's not really fair to do so.

But he said pretty much the same about Bore, he reacted rather than anticipated when in a more attacking role.  Whereas in defence he could see more of the game going on so was able to improve his reading of it, almost as if it allowed him to plot how things would open up.  He also said it wasn't attitude or desire that Bore lacked, despite common belief, but actual belief in his own ability.   One of the things Buckley tried to get into his head was that he was good enough to take players on, to shoot on sight and cause havoc.  But he over thought everything.  You look at a lot of his goals, most of them are when he had little time to think about it.  

Interestingly he said defensively Bore was just ok.  He looked a lot better, not my words, because the rest of the defence was so poor and slow that Bore's pace was utilised to get the team out of situations it should never have got in to start with.  I thought that was a bit harsh personally.