Yes I am, but, and there is always a but, I would ask him to sit back for the rest of this week, and not analyse our next opponent too much, but take a look at WHY we are on such a bad run.  My personal opinion, and possibly a lot of others too is simple, we are not scoring goals.  Answer.....get a goal scorer in, simple as, even if he is 2 leagues below us, but knows where the net is, sign him up, the money is there, take it and spend it.  If you want an example that this works.....Jamie Vardy.

I hope you can sit back Paul and make the right decision, for you, for the fans and for GTFC!  UTM.  Good luck Paul.

Or Montel Gibson & Ira Jackson Jr.

Not that simple is it.

No, it's not that simple but we have to find someone who can score, end of!

Quoted from ska face

Or Montel Gibson & Ira Jackson Jr.

Not that simple is it.

Will Ira Jackson Jr put the final nail in Paul Hursts' coffin this Saturday?

Quoted from ska face

Or Montel Gibson & Ira Jackson Jr.

Not that simple is it.

Trying to think of an example of a successful Town striker that we signed from more than one level below us. I’ve been watching Town since ‘92, and can only come up with Micky Boulding.

Quoted from jamesgtfc

Will Ira Jackson Jr put the final nail in Paul Hursts' coffin this Saturday?

barely plays for Wealdstone i dont think

Quoted from jamesgtfc

Will Ira Jackson Jr put the final nail in Paul Hursts' coffin this Saturday?

The bloke can’t finish his dinner, let alone someone else’s career.

'Just sign the next Jamie Vardy' is a great plan. Can anybody pass the advice on to the club?

Quoted from Poojah

Trying to think of an example of a successful Town striker that we signed from more than one level below us. I’ve been watching Town since ‘92, and can only come up with Micky Boulding.

Am presuming that when Hearn left alfreton and bogle left Solihull they were in the same division?

Quoted from WOZOFGRIMSBY

Am presuming that when Hearn left alfreton and bogle left Solihull they were in the same division?

Solihull were the division below and Alfreton were just about to come up into our division having got promoted the summer we got Hearn.

Quoted from WOZOFGRIMSBY

Am presuming that when Hearn left alfreton and bogle left Solihull they were in the same division?

Hearn had just been promoted with Alfreton so technically were in the same division, but had never played at National League level. Bogle was in the division below at the time, but like Hearn had been pretty prolific.

My point being that going more than a division below your level is rarely successful. Boulding was at Mansfield in the fourth tier when we were playing in the second, but was an unusually late starter having previously pursued a tennis career.

I think we all agree that we don't have a goalscorer, but isn't it his job to have recruited one by now? I appreciate it's not an easy position to fill but if you look at the top scorers' page (https://www.thefishy.co.uk/top-scorers.php?table=5), you will see players from:

Aldershot, Bromley, Chesterfield, FC Halifax, Maidenhead Utd, Notts County, Solihull Moors, Stockport, Torquay, Woking, Wrexham

There's a whole selection of big and small clubs in there, but we're not and none of our players are remotely near the top of this list. Clubs with lesser budgets than us have found scorers, why haven't we?

Quoted from 123614

Yes I am, but, and there is always a but, I would ask him to sit back for the rest of this week, and not analyse our next opponent too much, but take a look at WHY we are on such a bad run.  My personal opinion, and possibly a lot of others too is simple, we are not scoring goals.  Answer.....get a goal scorer in

Damn... Someone really needs to relay that vital information  to Hurst. I think your the first person to even come close to figuring out our lack of goals and the losing streak we're on

If only more fans thought this deep in complexity, we might have come to this consultation much sooner.

Or we find our goalscoring touch again. We were knocking plenty of goals in earlier in the season. Had we continued in that vein, we would have one or two at the top end of the goalscoring charts.

At a loss as to why we suddenly find it so difficult. Clearly PH is too.

Confidence, belief?

Quoted from ginnywings

Or we find our goalscoring touch again. We were knocking plenty of goals in earlier in the season. Had we continued in that vein, we would have one or two at the top end of the goalscoring charts.

At a loss as to why we suddenly find it so difficult. Clearly PH is too.

Confidence, belief?

Yep, if PH hasn't got any left then what chance the players.. Scary post match interview of a broken man last night. Didn't inspire me one bit and I don't have to work for him or carry out his orders every day..

Quoted from Bigdog

Yep, if PH hasn't got any left then what chance the players.. Scary post match interview of a broken man last night. Didn't inspire me one bit and I don't have to work for him or carry out his orders every day..

as ive said on another thread it upset me last nights interview- felt real sadness for PH

But he has to pick himself up as we have HUGE game On Saturday

Could be a number of factors:

1 Confidence / belief - players were shooting from everywhere at the beginning of the season.  If it doesn't go in you might get a lucky deflection, score on the rebound or get a corner.   The question is why did that 'having a pop change?'  

2. Play to your strengths -  I am no tactician but he fiddles to much depending on who we play.  We want a settled side but changing formation every five minutes prevents that.  It also has players playing in odd positions - McAtee last week.

3. Dropping players who have had a bad game.  We all perform badly from time to time.  If somebody is having a 'mare, sub him but don't can him for the next game.  This creates a climate of fear - when we are in that situation, we often screw up.

4.  Respect but don't big up your opposition too much.  I played footie in Mexico and they often thought I was German.  At first I didn't like it, but then I realised if I confirmed I was, it gave me an edge. It made me a better player than I was. Trying bigging up your own team.

5. DUIgate / youthswhoareboredwiththeareagate.

It's probably a combination of the above.

So am I... Pushing him out the door! 😁

I have reflected on this now. I am with Hurst for the whole of Feb - no crying if we draw against Wealdstone. If we have a rotten month then hard to defend. Up to the end of feb 100% support from me. I have not seen a home game that we deserved to lose and I donot go to away games any more.
We are due a bit of luck and Hurst looked smashed on his interview last night. He is a decent guy and I am not seeing a lack of effort here. There is a lack of quality that is clear.
Only 2 will escape this pit this season, if we cannot escape let it be Stockport and Wrexham , that would be a much better division next season
Feels like a time for pulling together and not pathetic protests.
I am fully behind the team and I have been really saddened by some of the recent hysteria and it has pulled me back in to support. I am as guilty as the next man of a rant when full of emotion after a defeat but enough is enough. 100% support and take the pressure off them , the team looks nervous and that is just confidence.
100% IN - UP THE MARINERS

It’s difficult because some folk will find it hard to be pragmatic about things but aside from Dagenham, possibly Tuesday and Bromley away I don’t think we’ve really been battered or dominated yet we still haven’t won.

We were the makers of our down fall against Bromley and Halifax and we missed a prime chance on Tuesday and would probably have seen out the draw.

It’s frustrating and I don’t think there’s just one reason for it which makes it all the harder to kinda stop. It will stop though and we will turn a corner but I am well aware that for some, that won’t come soon enough. We’ve also got to contend with the fact that some town fans are giant babies and can’t forgive a man that called them out and rightly so, so they’ve been almost wishing him to fail…

Quoted from Mayaman

Could be a number of factors:

1 Confidence / belief - players were shooting from everywhere at the beginning of the season.  If it doesn't go in you might get a lucky deflection, score on the rebound or get a corner.   The question is why did that 'having a pop change?'  

2. Play to your strengths -  I am no tactician but he fiddles to much depending on who we play.  We want a settled side but changing formation every five minutes prevents that.  It also has players playing in odd positions - McAtee last week.

3. Dropping players who have had a bad game.  We all perform badly from time to time.  If somebody is having a 'mare, sub him but don't can him for the next game.  This creates a climate of fear - when we are in that situation, we often screw up.

4.  Respect but don't big up your opposition too much.  I played footie in Mexico and they often thought I was German.  At first I didn't like it, but then I realised if I confirmed I was, it gave me an edge. It made me a better player than I was. Trying bigging up your own team.

5. DUIgate / youthswhoareboredwiththeareagate.

It's probably a combination of the above.

Or could it be more simple? General poor recruitment?

Hurst’s first season last time around was frustrating, but you could see they had put in place the spine of a team (McKeown, Pearson, Disley & Hearn) to build around. What is in place for the future to build around?

I’ve listened to most of Hurst’s post match interviews and win lose or draw he’s usually upbeat, but now having watched his post Wrexham interview, it’s the first time that I’ve seen him looking totally beat, he’s looks like a manager on borrowed time that has run out of ideas.

I’m not his biggest fan but I do appreciate that he generally cares and is hurting for the club as the interview shows, and just on that I would love it for him and the fans if we hammer Wealdstone on Saturday, and then go on a run and a least challenge for the play offs but I just can’t see it. Anything other than a convincing win on Saturday he should be put out his misery.

Quoted from Zmariner

I have reflected on this now. I am with Hurst for the whole of Feb - no crying if we draw against Wealdstone. If we have a rotten month then hard to defend. Up to the end of feb 100% support from me. I have not seen a home game that we deserved to lose and I donot go to away games any more.
We are due a bit of luck and Hurst looked smashed on his interview last night. He is a decent guy and I am not seeing a lack of effort here. There is a lack of quality that is clear.
Only 2 will escape this pit this season, if we cannot escape let it be Stockport and Wrexham , that would be a much better division next season
Feels like a time for pulling together and not pathetic protests.
I am fully behind the team and I have been really saddened by some of the recent hysteria and it has pulled me back in to support. I am as guilty as the next man of a rant when full of emotion after a defeat but enough is enough. 100% support and take the pressure off them , the team looks nervous and that is just confidence.
100% IN - UP THE MARINERS

This is spades... although of PH left today/tomorrow I could hardly complain
We are losing games by fine margins - I think 9 of the losses have been odd goal and we have only been beaten by two goal margin once in this run?
I am happy to give him until end Feb - obvs if we haven't won another (or lost them all by then) then it would not be unreasonable for him to leave
Can he get a striker in? Can the players we currently have start delivering? Will the two new midfield lads get a run and start to help McAtee create more chances? Can we find that ruthless edge both ends of the park?
We need to and quick!

I would ring changes for Saturday and be far more positive

Clifton (Smith) Wright/Maguire Drew (Sousa) Burgess (Coke) Raikhy (Abrahams) all start

4231
Front six
Fox Raikhy
Maguire Drew/Wright McAtee Burgess
Taylor

Nothing to lose - all 6 of those are hardworking and Id' say 4 are out and out creative

Sadly though managers (and PH is like this) tend to go back to basics and grind results out - but that isn't working cos we have little creativity
And the Clifton sub Saturday does little to win PH fans

Be more ruthless both ends and results will turn quickly

It is bloody amazing we are still in touch - so it 's a long way from being a lost cause

And remember this - one of big spending Stockport, Chesterfield, Wrexham will NOT be going up so it's not all about cash!

The tough thing is, that the start threw us off compared to now, weve been critical of hurst for not being attacking enough until too late when were chasing a game, but he could also not be being defensive enough either. I think if any new manager came in now theyd first try and make the team alot more disciplined and harder to beat, and we'd praise them for it, but if hurst played a defensive lineup against wrexham id probably have moaned.

Its a tough one but maybe time to gamble on a complete shake up, get fringe players involved, if nothing else it could just give the first choice players like ryan taylor a mental break for a week

Quoted from aldi_01

It’s difficult because some folk will find it hard to be pragmatic about things but aside from Dagenham, possibly Tuesday and Bromley away I don’t think we’ve really been battered or dominated yet we still haven’t won.

We were the makers of our down fall against Bromley and Halifax and we missed a prime chance on Tuesday and would probably have seen out the draw.

It’s frustrating and I don’t think there’s just one reason for it which makes it all the harder to kinda stop. It will stop though and we will turn a corner but I am well aware that for some, that won’t come soon enough. We’ve also got to contend with the fact that some town fans are giant babies and can’t forgive a man that called them out and rightly so, so they’ve been almost wishing him to fail…

I think that’s a pretty fair and reasonable post, though I can sort of see things both ways. From the other perspective, I suspect that had Hurst been a new personality to the club, the level of support for him would have been much lower having ultimately overseen relegation and this current run of form (which however you frame it, has been shocking).

But at the macro-level, I think certain things have compounded people’s frustration. We can’t overlook the amount of money which has gone right through the club and into the pockets of its former owner. It’s not inconceivable that this season’s budget could have been £300k+ larger than it is. And that might only sound like two or three top players extra, but in reality it means turning the 5th and 6th choice options we signed in the summer into 1st and 2nd choices, which would have had a profound impact on the complexion of the squad.

And I still think there’s an element of our support which conflated the ‘takeover’ with a rush of investment into the playing squad. That’s because takeovers at other clubs only generally make headlines when there’s a sugar daddy involved (a la Wrexham and Stockport), but that was never the promise here. People might not want to hear it, but the plan is much more seated in steady, sustainable growth and restoration of the club. It will take time for the wounds of the last 20 years to heal.

To that end, recruitment is always difficult when to all intents and purposes you are assembling a new squad. There will be unavoidable mistakes, and for that reason I always felt this season would be attritional (except perhaps during those rose tinted days early in the season). That we’ve almost been forced into a further mini-rebuild of the squad in January isn’t ideal, I’ll admit, but in my opinion regardless of where we finish this season will go into next season stronger and more stable than we did this.

I don’t think for a moment Hurst should be shielded from criticism, something he will be only too aware of himself. The sparkle in his eyes that we saw in the Autumn has long since disappeared. The current run is thoroughly unacceptable regardless of context or any mitigating circumstances, and I simply can’t argue otherwise.

But it’s important not to act on impulse and emotion, something our former custodian was rightly accused of far too often. If we do sack Hurst, then what? There doesn’t appear to be an abundance of readily available replacements out there, and I do think that’s an important and relevant consideration. Would we welcome Steve Evans to BP with open arms? I’m not sure we would, and I don’t think the board would entertain it either.

Ultimately, the fixtures in the coming weeks look kinder than they have been. Hurst needs to avoid any embarrassing results during this period, he really does, but IF he can navigate these next few games with a series of wins then ultimately we go into the final third of the season with something to play for and the ability to put these dreary last few months behind us.

Stay calm. There are a lot of factors at play here, maybe some not entirely known to those of us in the stands. Let’s take it one game at a time. I concede we cannot afford defeat at home to Wealdstone on Saturday, but I believe we’ll win and things will look ever so slightly brighter for a moment.

If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs…

UTM!

Quoted from Humbercod

I’ve listened to most of Hurst’s post match interviews and win lose or draw he’s usually upbeat, but now having watched his post Wrexham interview, it’s the first time that I’ve seen him looking totally beat, he’s looks like a manager on borrowed time that has run out of ideas.

I’m not his biggest fan but I do appreciate that he generally cares and is hurting for the club as the interview shows, and just on that I would love it for him and the fans if we hammer Wealdstone on Saturday, and then go on a run and a least challenge for the play offs but I just can’t see it. Anything other than a convincing win on Saturday he should be put out his misery.

Bloody hell, you've surprised even me there, thought you'd be all over this calling for Hursts head knowing your dislike fir his style of football, nice too see some empathy being shown.
Gotta agree though, never seen him so brow beaten as Tuesday, almost looked like a man at the end of the plank waiting to be pushed. Think he needs to look back at those first eleven games, show those to the squad in attempt to instill some belief back into the squad

What I will never understand is how we failed to build on that fantastic start
Or is it more the case that other 'fancied' teams are stronger and once in their stride we have been left behind?
But surely confidence must have been sky high and it is a complete mystery to me and others I suspect
It's not just bad form it's defeat after defeat... very odd

Quoted from Humbercod

I’ve listened to most of Hurst’s post match interviews and win lose or draw he’s usually upbeat, but now having watched his post Wrexham interview, it’s the first time that I’ve seen him looking totally beat, he’s looks like a manager on borrowed time that has run out of ideas.

I’m not his biggest fan but I do appreciate that he generally cares and is hurting for the club as the interview shows, and just on that I would love it for him and the fans if we hammer Wealdstone on Saturday, and then go on a run and a least challenge for the play offs but I just can’t see it. Anything other than a convincing win on Saturday he should be put out his misery.

Definitely the most balanced and empathic post of yours I’ve ever seen.

100% support or 10% support it goes without saying Saturday is huge in so many ways.

If we don't win the fans will turn and in respect of Hurst's record last season and this who can blame them? Maybe harsh maybe not but that's football.

It's a huge day for the owners as well; whatever they have provided the manager with is not delivering results so they have to think whether a different manager would turn things around, and have more success in the medium term. I think talk of long term plans  on the playing side based on one manager is a bit daft as obviously sliding down the table in tier 5 is just not remotely acceptable and the owners would have step in.

Like others I hope we beat Wealdstone and go on a run and give Hurst some breathing space but he has got to motivate the team and himself otherwise it will be curtains.

I rarely post these days and only occasionally visit, primarily, to enter the POM.

Here are a few of my thoughts on the current situation

Firstly everyone is entitled to an opinion but abuse of people who see things differently can never be right, nor the language aimed at the owners or employees of our club.

With results since October, I don’t think any football fan would be surprised if Paul Hurst were to be relived of his duties. How many times have we all read, or said, ‘it’s a results business’? I know I have!

It is just the way football is today. A run of defeats, the fans get angry and boards react. Didn’t our former owner say that 6 defeats and you are out was the ‘thing’? We certainly have chopped and changed managers often enough and that applies to the vast majority of other football clubs.

I think I recall our new owners saying something along the lines of doing something different, like running the football club on the same lines as a ‘normal’ business? Trying to build a culture, where everyone is treated with kindest and respect. If an individual is struggling in their role it is usual in business to help them through it, give them support and help them improve. A long term strategy.

Fans have quite rightly imo, expressed concern about team building. We only have around 5 players under contract for next season, one of which is currently out on loan at Woking ( I think we may have options on a few more) It looks like the summer will once again see a huge turnover in players with the inevitable claim that they will take time to gel.
My guess is that Paul Hurst is as much finding the type of players he doesn’t want rather than his signings being ones for the long term. It could perhaps to be a form of team building, learning more about what types do work in the NL and what don’t. I think the league is better than when we were previously here. There are still teams that fit the image of big bruisers, long ball etc but whilst I think you need some big lads and some legs I think you probably need more technical gifted players than last time around. Maybe PH is finding the same? McAtee is this type and although it was a brief cameo at Wrexham the loanee from Villa looked a proper footballer to me.
We all have differing opinions on how the team should be set up, formations. IIRC Hurst always had two central strikers in his previous spell here but has hardly ever started this way this season. I think 2 up top would give us a better chance of scoring the goals which have dried up, even if it does potentially reduce the bodies in midfield and possession stats.

Maybe we do need to show more patience? Most fans I spoke to at the end of last season or before the start of this season, was that it was likely to take a least 3 seasons to rebuild to get back to the EFL.
I must add that I expected, and still do, that we are, at the very least, challenging for the play offs this season.

Will this patient, long term supportive approach work at GTFC? Absolutely no idea? Chopping and changing managers hasn’t exactly got us flying up the divisions that’s for sure!

As stated nobody would be surprised if PH was sacked, many are calling for the his head but maybe, just maybe, the owners vision and commitment to the ethos may work longer term so that if and when we do go up, we are in a far far better place to kick on that we were last time. They could be wrong. There are, I am sure, examples of clubs going for stability but ultimately have to dismiss the manager because they stagnate. Other clubs swop and change virtually every season, mostly to no avail but sometimes it works.

There are no right or wrong methods it seems but by owning the club, Messrs Stockwood & Pettit have the right to choose and we as fans can either be supportive or choose it is not for us.

Question is do we, as fans have the patience to support the owners vision?

Brilliant, balanced, calm, cogent post BC. Wish you would post more often. Completely agree with all you’ve said.

Patience is the best word I've seen in that. Before the axes start flying, I wholly understand that 15 games on with 2 wins to our name isn't the kind of form that lends itself to being patient.

There isn't a denying that in the modern day of football that level of form for a club our size at the level we're at would in more cases than not warrant the managers dismissal. I've said on another thread - and the original poster did too - that February is massive for him.

Looking at the games we have and the run we're on, even those who still sit on the patient fence will wobble off if we don't pick up a good number of wins within that time.

I found it pleasing that someone has pledged their 100% support to PH though. I like him as a person and I'm desperate for him to turn it around, hopefully he and the boys can get that started on Saturday with a solid win.

There was a part I did agree with though, in that we start looking to play our way and not adjust for others. There's perhaps a logic against clubs such as Wrexham or Chesterfield when away from home, but certainly when we're at BP take the game to the opposition.

great to have you back Big Chris - don't be a stranger!

Quoted from forza ivano

great to have you back Big Chris - don't be a stranger!

maybe we'll get 80's Glory back, i miss his 3 page diatribe

Quoted from Poojah

I think that’s a pretty fair and reasonable post, though I can sort of see things both ways. From the other perspective, I suspect that had Hurst been a new personality to the club, the level of support for him would have been much lower having ultimately overseen relegation and this current run of form (which however you frame it, has been shocking).

But at the macro-level, I think certain things have compounded people’s frustration. We can’t overlook the amount of money which has gone right through the club and into the pockets of its former owner. It’s not inconceivable that this season’s budget could have been £300k+ larger than it is. And that might only sound like two or three top players extra, but in reality it means turning the 5th and 6th choice options we signed in the summer into 1st and 2nd choices, which would have had a profound impact on the complexion of the squad.

And I still think there’s an element of our support which conflated the ‘takeover’ with a rush of investment into the playing squad. That’s because takeovers at other clubs only generally make headlines when there’s a sugar daddy involved (a la Wrexham and Stockport), but that was never the promise here. People might not want to hear it, but the plan is much more seated in steady, sustainable growth and restoration of the club. It will take time for the wounds of the last 20 years to heal.

To that end, recruitment is always difficult when to all intents and purposes you are assembling a new squad. There will be unavoidable mistakes, and for that reason I always felt this season would be attritional (except perhaps during those rose tinted days early in the season). That we’ve almost been forced into a further mini-rebuild of the squad in January isn’t ideal, I’ll admit, but in my opinion regardless of where we finish this season will go into next season stronger and more stable than we did this.

I don’t think for a moment Hurst should be shielded from criticism, something he will be only too aware of himself. The sparkle in his eyes that we saw in the Autumn has long since disappeared. The current run is thoroughly unacceptable regardless of context or any mitigating circumstances, and I simply can’t argue otherwise.

But it’s important not to act on impulse and emotion, something our former custodian was rightly accused of far too often. If we do sack Hurst, then what? There doesn’t appear to be an abundance of readily available replacements out there, and I do think that’s an important and relevant consideration. Would we welcome Steve Evans to BP with open arms? I’m not sure we would, and I don’t think the board would entertain it either.

Ultimately, the fixtures in the coming weeks look kinder than they have been. Hurst needs to avoid any embarrassing results during this period, he really does, but IF he can navigate these next few games with a series of wins then ultimately we go into the final third of the season with something to play for and the ability to put these dreary last few months behind us.

Stay calm. There are a lot of factors at play here, maybe some not entirely known to those of us in the stands. Let’s take it one game at a time. I concede we cannot afford defeat at home to Wealdstone on Saturday, but I believe we’ll win and things will look ever so slightly brighter for a moment.

If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs…

UTM!

Excellent post Poojah, completely agree.

Quoted from BIGChris

I rarely post these days and only occasionally visit, primarily, to enter the POM.

Here are a few of my thoughts on the current situation

Firstly everyone is entitled to an opinion but abuse of people who see things differently can never be right, nor the language aimed at the owners or employees of our club.

With results since October, I don’t think any football fan would be surprised if Paul Hurst were to be relived of his duties. How many times have we all read, or said, ‘it’s a results business’? I know I have!

It is just the way football is today. A run of defeats, the fans get angry and boards react. Didn’t our former owner say that 6 defeats and you are out was the ‘thing’? We certainly have chopped and changed managers often enough and that applies to the vast majority of other football clubs.

I think I recall our new owners saying something along the lines of doing something different, like running the football club on the same lines as a ‘normal’ business? Trying to build a culture, where everyone is treated with kindest and respect. If an individual is struggling in their role it is usual in business to help them through it, give them support and help them improve. A long term strategy.

Fans have quite rightly imo, expressed concern about team building. We only have around 5 players under contract for next season, one of which is currently out on loan at Woking ( I think we may have options on a few more) It looks like the summer will once again see a huge turnover in players with the inevitable claim that they will take time to gel.
My guess is that Paul Hurst is as much finding the type of players he doesn’t want rather than his signings being ones for the long term. It could perhaps to be a form of team building, learning more about what types do work in the NL and what don’t. I think the league is better than when we were previously here. There are still teams that fit the image of big bruisers, long ball etc but whilst I think you need some big lads and some legs I think you probably need more technical gifted players than last time around. Maybe PH is finding the same? McAtee is this type and although it was a brief cameo at Wrexham the loanee from Villa looked a proper footballer to me.
We all have differing opinions on how the team should be set up, formations. IIRC Hurst always had two central strikers in his previous spell here but has hardly ever started this way this season. I think 2 up top would give us a better chance of scoring the goals which have dried up, even if it does potentially reduce the bodies in midfield and possession stats.

Maybe we do need to show more patience? Most fans I spoke to at the end of last season or before the start of this season, was that it was likely to take a least 3 seasons to rebuild to get back to the EFL.
I must add that I expected, and still do, that we are, at the very least, challenging for the play offs this season.

Will this patient, long term supportive approach work at GTFC? Absolutely no idea? Chopping and changing managers hasn’t exactly got us flying up the divisions that’s for sure!

As stated nobody would be surprised if PH was sacked, many are calling for the his head but maybe, just maybe, the owners vision and commitment to the ethos may work longer term so that if and when we do go up, we are in a far far better place to kick on that we were last time. They could be wrong. There are, I am sure, examples of clubs going for stability but ultimately have to dismiss the manager because they stagnate. Other clubs swop and change virtually every season, mostly to no avail but sometimes it works.

There are no right or wrong methods it seems but by owning the club, Messrs Stockwood & Pettit have the right to choose and we as fans can either be supportive or choose it is not for us.

Question is do we, as fans have the patience to support the owners vision?

A very fair post and you make some great points and stability "could" be the key.

Personally, I think it is a bit of a myth; stability comes with success, rather than the other way round. If we get a bit of success then we can give managers and players longer contracts and so on. Even obvious improvements in the right direction could be rewarded with extra budgets/contracts etc in the name of stability.

However, an experienced manager like Hurst should be doing a lot better than this, and that is despite a great start, a competitive budget we are led to believe, and owners who have gone out of their way to give him free rein on the playing side and have publicly backed him from day one. He is going backwards with an array of loan signings and playing people out of position, seemingly unable to influence games as they slip away from us.

The owners have changed key personnel off the pitch, and if this run continues I think they will have to act on it. Stability for the sake of it on the playing side doesn't make much sense unless our form picks up.

I think it is unfair to think that fans should support stability if we keep losing - no fans in the country would put up with that without wanting a change of manager, which we could do and still keep the ethos of the owners generally.

It is a tricky situation for sure and I hope a few wins alleviate any talk of needing to change the manager.  

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

He is going backwards with an array of loan signings and playing people out of position  

We started the season with 5 loanees and nobody was complaining when we were top of the table. Most were recalled by their clubs, which was mostly out of PH's control. JMD, Amos and Burgess have been signed permanently and Abraham, Smith & Raikhy have been signed on loan, so not quite the picture you're trying to paint.

It's a similar tale with the "playing people out of position" argument that gets banded about as if its happening every week. Towler playing one game at left back, and Smith playing at right-back currently (because Efete got injured the day after Sears left) are the only two examples that spring to mind, but people give the impression that its a common occurrence, which it definitely isn't.

Quoted from Humbercod

I’ve listened to most of Hurst’s post match interviews and win lose or draw he’s usually upbeat, but now having watched his post Wrexham interview, it’s the first time that I’ve seen him looking totally beat, he’s looks like a manager on borrowed time that has run out of ideas.

I’m not his biggest fan but I do appreciate that he generally cares and is hurting for the club as the interview shows, and just on that I would love it for him and the fans if we hammer Wealdstone on Saturday, and then go on a run and a least challenge for the play offs but I just can’t see it. Anything other than a convincing win on Saturday he should be put out his misery.

Hurst and Upbeat are not two words I would ever use in the same sentence.

Quoted from BIGChris

I rarely post these days and only occasionally visit, primarily, to enter the POM.

Here are a few of my thoughts on the current situation

Firstly everyone is entitled to an opinion but abuse of people who see things differently can never be right, nor the language aimed at the owners or employees of our club.

With results since October, I don’t think any football fan would be surprised if Paul Hurst were to be relived of his duties. How many times have we all read, or said, ‘it’s a results business’? I know I have!

It is just the way football is today. A run of defeats, the fans get angry and boards react. Didn’t our former owner say that 6 defeats and you are out was the ‘thing’? We certainly have chopped and changed managers often enough and that applies to the vast majority of other football clubs.

I think I recall our new owners saying something along the lines of doing something different, like running the football club on the same lines as a ‘normal’ business? Trying to build a culture, where everyone is treated with kindest and respect. If an individual is struggling in their role it is usual in business to help them through it, give them support and help them improve. A long term strategy.

Fans have quite rightly imo, expressed concern about team building. We only have around 5 players under contract for next season, one of which is currently out on loan at Woking ( I think we may have options on a few more) It looks like the summer will once again see a huge turnover in players with the inevitable claim that they will take time to gel.
My guess is that Paul Hurst is as much finding the type of players he doesn’t want rather than his signings being ones for the long term. It could perhaps to be a form of team building, learning more about what types do work in the NL and what don’t. I think the league is better than when we were previously here. There are still teams that fit the image of big bruisers, long ball etc but whilst I think you need some big lads and some legs I think you probably need more technical gifted players than last time around. Maybe PH is finding the same? McAtee is this type and although it was a brief cameo at Wrexham the loanee from Villa looked a proper footballer to me.
We all have differing opinions on how the team should be set up, formations. IIRC Hurst always had two central strikers in his previous spell here but has hardly ever started this way this season. I think 2 up top would give us a better chance of scoring the goals which have dried up, even if it does potentially reduce the bodies in midfield and possession stats.

Maybe we do need to show more patience? Most fans I spoke to at the end of last season or before the start of this season, was that it was likely to take a least 3 seasons to rebuild to get back to the EFL.
I must add that I expected, and still do, that we are, at the very least, challenging for the play offs this season.

Will this patient, long term supportive approach work at GTFC? Absolutely no idea? Chopping and changing managers hasn’t exactly got us flying up the divisions that’s for sure!

As stated nobody would be surprised if PH was sacked, many are calling for the his head but maybe, just maybe, the owners vision and commitment to the ethos may work longer term so that if and when we do go up, we are in a far far better place to kick on that we were last time. They could be wrong. There are, I am sure, examples of clubs going for stability but ultimately have to dismiss the manager because they stagnate. Other clubs swop and change virtually every season, mostly to no avail but sometimes it works.

There are no right or wrong methods it seems but by owning the club, Messrs Stockwood & Pettit have the right to choose and we as fans can either be supportive or choose it is not for us.

Question is do we, as fans have the patience to support the owners vision?

Excellent post Chris.

I’m neither behind or against Paul for a couple of reasons.

First, regarding squad building, it could be that agents have got wind of our intention to consolidate and put unreasonable terms into proposed deals which could have then turned into contract extensions. Possible.

Second, we don’t know how many strikers may have turned us down. We weren’t struggling for goals till the end of October coinciding with McAtee’s injury and suspension. For what it’s worth, I actually think he’s trying to do too much at present and the harder he tries the less is happening.

Final point, just to pick up on Chris’s point. Whether you’re of a mindset that the playing aspect is more or less or equally important than the other developments, please show respect to others opinions. We’re all Town after all and, just as you might not think they’re right, they’re probably thinking the same about you.

Lots of good stuff on this thread very balanced all I can add is some personal opinion.

In terms of strategy around long term building I can get behind that, yes it might be a long slog that will be bumpy but it just feels like the only route available.

I can be patient but need to see new investors joining JS & AP on the board when Fenty is paid off and some of the money they invest used on the team.

I’d like to see less loans next season, we’ll end up with some for sure but quality more than quantity. I still think we’ll need to manage expectations though in reality.

In terms of Paul Hurst my view is that he’s pretty safe and suspect he’ll be safe until his contract expires in around 6 months time, then the owners will make a decision either way. I reckon that is more their style than continuing the theme of Grimsby being a sacking club.

Oh for pity's sake, a few bad results, not necessarily games, and the wolves are circling. Revolving Door Recruitment Policy is why we are in this mess/Div 5. It's not PH's fault, it's just he has the job of mopping up the poo that the last regime left with some help from some "fans" baying for blood every time it doesn't all go to some sort of plan, Saudi Arabia hasn't sent a shed load over, or, or, or........'
Talk/thinking/murmuring of sacking only does one thing, not focus on the job at hand, but focus on getting your CV out for the next employer. People have mortgages to pay, so what would you do?. Exactly.
Do you know how many managers GTFC has gone through in the last 20 (2002-2022 inc stand-ins )years? 21, what's that, a change every 11.5 months? The club is committing Hari Kiri by the slice.
Let's give the man a chance until the end of the season before we moan, then another season so he can put into practise his ideas.
Hell, I'd give him another 2-3 seasons just for the novelty of remembering who our manager is.

Quoted from GrimPol

Oh for pity's sake, a few bad results, not necessarily games, and the wolves are circling. Revolving Door Recruitment Policy is why we are in this mess/Div 5. It's not PH's fault, it's just he has the job of mopping up the poo that the last regime left with some help from some "fans" baying for blood every time it doesn't all go to some sort of plan, Saudi Arabia hasn't sent a shed load over, or, or, or........'
Talk/thinking/murmuring of sacking only does one thing, not focus on the job at hand, but focus on getting your CV out for the next employer. People have mortgages to pay, so what would you do?. Exactly.
Do you know how many managers GTFC has gone through in the last 20 (2002-2022 inc stand-ins )years? 21, what's that, a change every 11.5 months? The club is committing Hari Kiri by the slice.
Let's give the man a chance until the end of the season before we moan, then another season so he can put into practise his ideas.
Hell, I'd give him another 2-3 seasons just for the novelty of remembering who our manager is.

It is results that will determine his fate. That much is obvious. Nobody is going to give him 2/3 years or even next season if the current trajectory of results continues. Paul Hurst knows that every manager knows that.

What evidence have we got that sticking with the same manager for years would produce anything different? The law of averages maybe that eventually it would come good but equally a new manager could come in, get the players firing again and reach the play-offs.

We might turn it around under Hurst, let's hope we do, but the idea of sticking with a failing manager with all the advantages he has got in this league is a non-starter. Crowds will dwindle, interest will wane and then we will have a bigger rebuilding job later on.

I don't disagree we have had far too many managers, but this board have got a far better story to tell to prospective applicants if and when Hurst leaves.  

As a fan of Grimsby town football club, like everyone else on here I want the best for the club and us to win every match. For as long as Paul Hurst is in charge, I will support him. The man obviously cares and is trying as hard as he can to turn this around. He is no Ian Holloway. He is no charlatan.

However my concern is the 'long term plan'. I 100% back the new owners. I think they have been fantastic for many many reasons. I love the idea of a long term plan and sustainability. However personally I do not believe Hurst is the correct man for this. I believe there is a massive over reliance on loans. Let's be honest, he doesn't use the youth set up and doesn't look to have any real interest in it. For example, why not give Goundry a chance instead of bringing Smith in on loan? Any long term plan surely has to involve the youth set up in some way. And I also don't see a set style of play. Yes I understand we need to change formation from time to time, but there is far too much attention payed to the opposition. We need one or two styles of play that becomes engraved in the club. A playing identity again. I just don't see Hurst doing this.

If in this bad run we had 3 or 4 youth team players regularly starting, showing lots of promise but making errors and costing points as they learn, a set style of play that fans understand and can see what we are trying to achieve ...I think fans would be more patient.

I do wonder, and I am normally dead against this sort of role, but in order to set up and oversee this long term plan do we need a director of football, or head of football, to help the manager out but also provide that bridge between the new board and football side. Doesn't mean they interfere with transfers but can help with the bigger picture.

As I said, I still want Hurst to succeed and I really hope he does. I won't be calling for his head. But that doesn't mean I don't have concerns. I do however only see this going one way now, how often do you see managers come under this level of pressure and survive much longer? Saturday is huge.

Quoted from GrimPol

Oh for pity's sake, a few bad results, not necessarily games, and the wolves are circling. Revolving Door Recruitment Policy is why we are in this mess/Div 5. It's not PH's fault, it's just he has the job of mopping up the poo that the last regime left with some help from some "fans" baying for blood every time it doesn't all go to some sort of plan, Saudi Arabia hasn't sent a shed load over, or, or, or........'
Talk/thinking/murmuring of sacking only does one thing, not focus on the job at hand, but focus on getting your CV out for the next employer. People have mortgages to pay, so what would you do?. Exactly.
Do you know how many managers GTFC has gone through in the last 20 (2002-2022 inc stand-ins )years? 21, what's that, a change every 11.5 months? The club is committing Hari Kiri by the slice.
Let's give the man a chance until the end of the season before we moan, then another season so he can put into practise his ideas.
Hell, I'd give him another 2-3 seasons just for the novelty of remembering who our manager is.

Hurst must have signed getting on for 30 players in just over 12 months, 2 signed this season have already been got rid of. How many frigging players will he sign in 3 more seasons.

Plus I wouldn't have called 2 wins in 14 games a few bad results. For pity's sake he is bordering on being as crap as Neil Woods.

Quoted from HarrogateMariner

A

If in this bad run we had 3 or 4 youth team players regularly starting, showing lots of promise but making errors and costing points as they learn, a set style of play that fans understand and can see what we are trying to achieve ...I think fans would be more patient.

I do wonder, and I am normally dead against this sort of role, but in order to set up and oversee this long term plan do we need a director of football, or head of football, to help the manager out but also provide that bridge between the new board and football side. Doesn't mean they interfere with transfers but can help with the bigger picture.

good point harroagte in the first para
second para is something that i wondered ;when 1878 first came in they said a couple of times that they'd intended to go down a director of football route (presumably recommended by mark palmer??), but having spoken to PH realised that they didn't need one
Should PH go, however, i wonder whether Palmer is, or might be, tasked in finding a new coach and new Director of Football?

Quoted from forza ivano

good point harroagte in the first para
second para is something that i wondered ;when 1878 first came in they said a couple of times that they'd intended to go down a director of football route (presumably recommended by mark palmer??), but having spoken to PH realised that they didn't need one
Should PH go, however, i wonder whether Palmer is, or might be, tasked in finding a new coach and new Director of Football?

They used Mark Palmer mainly out of convenience didn’t they? He was advising Rob Couhig when he looked around the club before he bought Wycombe Wanderers.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Lots of good stuff on this thread very balanced all I can add is some personal opinion.

In terms of strategy around long term building I can get behind that, yes it might be a long slog that will be bumpy but it just feels like the only route available.

I can be patient but need to see new investors joining JS & AP on the board when Fenty is paid off and some of the money they invest used on the team.

I’d like to see less loans next season, we’ll end up with some for sure but quality more than quantity. I still think we’ll need to manage expectations though in reality.

In terms of Paul Hurst my view is that he’s pretty safe and suspect he’ll be safe until his contract expires in around 6 months time, then the owners will make a decision either way. I reckon that is more their style than continuing the theme of Grimsby being a sacking club.

I thought he was on an 18 month rolling contract.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11769/12175887/grimsby-re-appoint-paul-hurst-to-replace-ian-holloway-as-manager

3.5 year deal  :o

Quoted from GrimPol

Oh for pity's sake, a few bad results, not necessarily games, and the wolves are circling. Revolving Door Recruitment Policy is why we are in this mess/Div 5. It's not PH's fault, it's just he has the job of mopping up the poo that the last regime left with some help from some "fans" baying for blood every time it doesn't all go to some sort of plan, Saudi Arabia hasn't sent a shed load over, or, or, or........'
Talk/thinking/murmuring of sacking only does one thing, not focus on the job at hand, but focus on getting your CV out for the next employer. People have mortgages to pay, so what would you do?. Exactly.
Do you know how many managers GTFC has gone through in the last 20 (2002-2022 inc stand-ins )years? 21, what's that, a change every 11.5 months? The club is committing Hari Kiri by the slice.
Let's give the man a chance until the end of the season before we moan, then another season so he can put into practise his ideas.
Hell, I'd give him another 2-3 seasons just for the novelty of remembering who our manager is.

Its even worse when you consider Hurst takes up what nearly 7 of those years? So its actually 20 in 13 years if you take him out the equation

Quoted from psgmariner

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11769/12175887/grimsby-re-appoint-paul-hurst-to-replace-ian-holloway-as-manager

3.5 year deal  :o

I hope that's bullshit otherwise my thoughts on the current owners will be unprintable even on here.

Quoted from arryarryarry

I hope that's bullshit otherwise my thoughts on the current owners will be unprintable even on here.

I presume they just wanted someone who knew the club, was experienced in football circles and a relatively safe pair of hands so they could leave all of the football side to him, whilst they concentrated on transforming the club in all other areas.

A good strategy in theory, but not if said manager has a really really bad run which he cannot put right.

They will be hoping even more than us that tomorrow sees the start of an upturn in fortunes or they might have to rethink a few things.

Quoted from Oly1987

Its even worse when you consider Hurst takes up what nearly 7 of those years? So its actually 20 in 13 years if you take him out the equation

It's also bullshit, so wouldn't really pay much notice to it. A bit like Hurst has only won 10% of his last 100 games, it's not true and the truth is bad enough. We've had a lot of managers, but it isn't that many.

I presume they think it is better to trust the only manager who has earned us a promotion in the last 20 years than keep changing manager every time we hit a bad run of form.

I thought that Elliott Jackson said Hurst was on a rolling contract the other week though I may have misheard. I’m also unsure what the rolling terms were.

I doubt it would be a case of paying him off until 2023 if he were to be relieved of his duty. I remember people getting carried away about Pardew’s 8 year deal at Newcastle. If/when he got sacked he was never getting 8 years pay off, I think it was about 2. I imagine it would be something similar.

Quoted from quebec38

I thought that Elliott Jackson said Hurst was on a rolling contract the other week though I may have misheard. I’m also unsure what the rolling terms were.

I doubt it would be a case of paying him off until 2023 if he were to be relieved of his duty. I remember people getting carried away about Pardew’s 8 year deal at Newcastle. If/when he got sacked he was never getting 8 years pay off, I think it was about 2. I imagine it would be something similar.

I thought it was an initial 18 month deal and then a 12 month rolling deal after that. Whether he's got 4 months left or 12 months left now is another question though....

Well, for those calling for the Merry Go Round manager recruitment to spin ever faster, the sobering thought is that we will only recruit somebody who was sacked somewhere else or recruit from Div 6 or give a job to someone who's never held that position. Klopp, Mourinho or Guardiola won't come is my bet.
Instead of running around like Blue Bottom Fly's, let's give the man his chance, as the team started off superbly and have floundered inexplicably, so they can play if they find their Mojo again.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

It is results that will determine his fate. That much is obvious. Nobody is going to give him 2/3 years or even next season if the current trajectory of results continues. Paul Hurst knows that every manager knows that.

What evidence have we got that sticking with the same manager for years would produce anything different? The law of averages maybe that eventually it would come good but equally a new manager could come in, get the players firing again and reach the play-offs.

We might turn it around under Hurst, let's hope we do, but the idea of sticking with a failing manager with all the advantages he has got in this league is a non-starter. Crowds will dwindle, interest will wane and then we will have a bigger rebuilding job later on.

I don't disagree we have had far too many managers, but this board have got a far better story to tell to prospective applicants if and when Hurst leaves.  

Can't believe you are asking what evidence there is that sticking with a manager works. The only success we have had in 2 decades is when we did just that with Hurst. First season didn't produce much, but then it was play offs every season after that.

Buckley didn't do much in his first season and neither did Slade 1. Both took a while to turn the ship round after average first seasons. Both had people calling for their heads. I think some are expecting us to waltz the league because it's not the EFL and we are 'massive'.

This league is much stronger than last time and I reckon most teams in the top half could cope in league 2.

Changing managers could well be a success, but it could just as easily leave us no better off than we are now.

Hurst made us better by increments last time and I think he will do the same again if left to get on with it.

Quoted from ginnywings

Can't believe you are asking what evidence there is that sticking with a manager works. The only success we have had in 2 decades is when we did just that with Hurst. First season didn't produce much, but then it was play offs every season after that.

Buckley didn't do much in his first season and neither did Slade 1. Both took a while to turn the ship round after average first seasons. Both had people calling for their heads. I think some are expecting us to waltz the league because it's not the EFL and we are 'massive'.

This league is much stronger than last time and I reckon most teams in the top half could cope in league 2.

Changing managers could well be a success, but it could just as easily leave us no better off than we are now.

Hurst made us better by increments last time and I think he will do the same again if left to get on with it.

Buckley 2 did the business in his first season though. Huge exception to the rule though given the money at his disposal and a large portion of the team were already known to him.

To prove we are going in the right direction I think we need to see a few of his signings remain here next season. It seems quite clear to me that Scannell, Grant and Spokes will be sent packing in the summer; the first 2 will free up a large chunk of the budget I imagine. It looks inevitable at the moment that McKeown will be going too which again, will free up a large chunk of the budget I imagine.

In terms of building something I would like to see us tie down Efete, Crookes, Amos, Clifton, Fox, Taylor as a minimum on top of Pearson, McAtee and JMD that already here next season. Longe-King is under contract but it's likely he will be moved on in the summer I imagine.

Quoted from ginnywings

Can't believe you are asking what evidence there is that sticking with a manager works. The only success we have had in 2 decades is when we did just that with Hurst. First season didn't produce much, but then it was play offs every season after that.

Buckley didn't do much in his first season and neither did Slade 1. Both took a while to turn the ship round after average first seasons. Both had people calling for their heads. I think some are expecting us to waltz the league because it's not the EFL and we are 'massive'.

This league is much stronger than last time and I reckon most teams in the top half could cope in league 2.

Changing managers could well be a success, but it could just as easily leave us no better off than we are now.

Hurst made us better by increments last time and I think he will do the same again if left to get on with it.

So what you're saying could basically apply to any manager we've ever had.

I presume you mean the league as a whole is better, although I don't see why that matters when we're trying to come first.
In terms of the top few teams, this league definitely isn't better than last time. I thought it would be, but it isn't.

I

Quoted from jamesgtfc

Buckley 2 did the business in his first season though. Huge exception to the rule though given the money at his disposal and a large portion of the team were already known to him.

To prove we are going in the right direction I think we need to see a few of his signings remain here next season. It seems quite clear to me that Scannell, Grant and Spokes will be sent packing in the summer; the first 2 will free up a large chunk of the budget I imagine. It looks inevitable at the moment that McKeown will be going too which again, will free up a large chunk of the budget I imagine.

In terms of building something I would like to see us tie down Efete, Crookes, Amos, Clifton, Fox, Taylor as a minimum on top of Pearson, McAtee and JMD that already here next season. Longe-King is under contract but it's likely he will be moved on in the summer I imagine.

I’m immediately drawn to the fact that you would keep a left back who was dropped on Tuesday after two appearances. I quite like Adam Crookes but I don’t think he gets forward enough to be part of a promotion winning squad either.

Another point to the hounding of PH, what player will sign any contract, be loan or 2/3 year deal if by reading comments he gets the impression that the manager is "dead man walking" and hence he might be actually playing for another manager then the one who signed him. The posts I've read could have put off prospective players signing.
Fans think that they are the "twelfth man" as they "help" the team score by putting off the opposition.
How sure are you that you are not the "twelfth man" for the opposition?

Another point to the hounding of PH, what player will sign any contract, be loan or 2/3 year deal if by reading comments he gets the impression that the manager is "dead man walking" and hence he might be actually playing for another manager then the one who signed him. The posts I've read could have put off prospective players signing.
Fans think that they are the "twelfth man" as they "help" the team score by putting off the opposition.
How sure are you that you are not the "twelfth man" for the opposition?

Quoted from GrimPol

Well, for those calling for the Merry Go Round manager recruitment to spin ever faster, the sobering thought is that we will only recruit somebody who was sacked somewhere else or recruit from Div 6 or give a job to someone who's never held that position. Klopp, Mourinho or Guardiola won't come is my bet.
Instead of running around like Blue Bottom Fly's, let's give the man his chance, as the team started off superbly and have floundered inexplicably, so they can play if they find their Mojo again.

You do realise we got Hurst from a lower division.

Quoted from Roast Em Bobby

I presume they think it is better to trust the only manager who has earned us a promotion in the last 20 years than keep changing manager every time we hit a bad run of form.

Or trusting only the second manager to take us out of the Football League without a fight . (Excepting the one God knows how many years ago)

Quoted from arryarryarry

Or trusting only the second manager to take us out of the Football League without a fight . (Excepting the one God knows how many years ago)

Without a fight? He very nearly kept us up. Pep assisted by Klopp & Tuchel would have struggled to do any better in the circumstances

Quoted from ginnywings

Can't believe you are asking what evidence there is that sticking with a manager works. The only success we have had in 2 decades is when we did just that with Hurst. First season didn't produce much, but then it was play offs every season after that.

Buckley didn't do much in his first season and neither did Slade 1. Both took a while to turn the ship round after average first seasons. Both had people calling for their heads. I think some are expecting us to waltz the league because it's not the EFL and we are 'massive'.

This league is much stronger than last time and I reckon most teams in the top half could cope in league 2.

Changing managers could well be a success, but it could just as easily leave us no better off than we are now.

Hurst made us better by increments last time and I think he will do the same again if left to get on with it.

Well yes I will concede it could come good eventually but not many managers get the chance to find out. Just as much chance a new manager comes in and gets a lot more out of this squad.

Pays your money and takes your choice and no doubt the next few weeks will be pivotal.

"You do realise we got Hurst from a lower division"    YES, and we waited seven years for him to get us up.
So if we get someone new and untried,  that's  2029 for Div 4.

Quoted from GrimPol

"You do realise we got Hurst from a lower division"    YES, and we waited seven years for him to get us up.
So if we get someone new and untried,  that's  2029 for Div 4.

Or we wait another 7 years for him to take us up.

Quoted from Roast Em Bobby

Without a fight? He very nearly kept us up. Pep assisted by Klopp & Tuchel would have struggled to do any better in the circumstances

Erm..........................he took us from 3rd from bottom to bottom and ended up with a worse points per game total than that clown Holloway.

Quoted from arryarryarry

Erm..........................he took us from 3rd from bottom to bottom and ended up with a worse points per game total than that clown Holloway.

And brought X number of “ better” players, in Mr Hursts eyes, then what was already here!

Quoted from GrimPol

"You do realise we got Hurst from a lower division"    YES, and we waited seven years for him to get us up.
So if we get someone new and untried,  that's  2029 for Div 4.

Not particularly one for pedantry but Hurst and his chum Rob Scott were appointed in late March 2011 and we were promoted in May 2016, so a little over 5 years.

Scott was sacked in 2013, so Hurst had three full seasons in sole charge, reaching the play-off semi-finals once, the play-off final once and then finally winning the play-offs the following season.

Yeah, there were frustrating moments. That’s football to a degree, but they were there for sure. And maybe we were lucky in some aspects of our one successful play-off campaign. But if that’s true, then we were incredibly unlucky against Gateshead and Bristol Rovers in the previous seasons.

It’s not that difficult to make a good argument to sack Hurst, he’d have been long gone at most clubs under remotely similar circumstances. But he is a steady Eddie if nothing else. Given sufficient time, history suggests he’d get things settled down. I don’t believe he’d leave the club in ruins, as others have done.

In the past, a lack of due diligence when appointing managers has given us loose cannons like Mike Newell, Marcus Bignot (even though his statistical record looks surprisingly good in retrospect, he was a madman) and most recently Ian Holloway.

And so by all means, if we reach those crossroads and decide the only option is to pull the trigger then so be it. But we had better have done our homework first on who we want to replace him.

Whatever we do now carries risk, but one route is more familiar than the other. If we decide to go in the other direction we have to be very confident it’s the best one to take.

Quoted from pen penfras

It's also bullshit, so wouldn't really pay much notice to it. A bit like Hurst has only won 10% of his last 100 games, it's not true and the truth is bad enough. We've had a lot of managers, but it isn't that many.

I believe the OP I quoted included interim managers in that number too which makes it very plausible.

Quoted from Poojah

Not particularly one for pedantry but Hurst and his chum Rob Scott were appointed in late March 2011 and we were promoted in May 2016, so a little over 5 years.

Scott was sacked in 2013, so Hurst had three full seasons in sole charge, reaching the play-off semi-finals once, the play-off final once and then finally winning the play-offs the following season.

Yeah, there were frustrating moments. That’s football to a degree, but they were there for sure. And maybe we were lucky in some aspects of our one successful play-off campaign. But if that’s true, then we were incredibly unlucky against Gateshead and Bristol Rovers in the previous seasons.

It’s not that difficult to make a good argument to sack Hurst, he’d have been long gone at most clubs under remotely similar circumstances. But he is a steady Eddie if nothing else. Given sufficient time, history suggests he’d get things settled down. I don’t believe he’d leave the club in ruins, as others have done.

In the past, a lack of due diligence when appointing managers has given us loose cannons like Mike Newell, Marcus Bignot (even though his statistical record looks surprisingly good in retrospect, he was a madman) and most recently Ian Holloway.

And so by all means, if we reach those crossroads and decide the only option is to pull the trigger then so be it. But we had better have done our homework first on who we want to replace him.

Whatever we do now carries risk, but one route is more familiar than the other. If we decide to go in the other direction we have to be very confident it’s the best one to take.

Steady eddies are ok and a fair description of hurst tbf but I just think football like all walks of life as moved on.  We appear tactically behind many teams we don’t have a set style of play and even if we do grab that 7th spot which looks unlikely I can’t see us beating the teams above us.  We’ve all seen his interviews he looks broken he certainly doesn’t look like a man whose going to drive us forward.

Page 3 of this thread. Poojah and big Chris, best 2 posts I've seen on here for a long time. UTM.

Quoted from lukeo

Page 3 of this thread. Poojah and big Chris, best 2 posts I've seen on here for a long time. UTM.

Big Chris makes the point people have a option of supporting or not , gates are standing up fairly well at the moment but that won’t last forever if we can’t challenge the play off spots  

So those that still give Mr Hurst 100%, at what point would you decide that enough is enough ?

Exactly, a safe pair of hands. No hysterics, no rants, no gobbledegook, no one-liners nobody understands, no whinges, no promises etc etc etc.
Yes, the guy looks beaten lately, but how many ways can you say we were rubbish. Why did a player get sent off and we lost, why did a player pass back short, and we lost?  Amos today put us under the cosh today, and I'm positive the team didn't train to do that.  
Hurst has been here less than 13 months, let's wait until the end of the season and then see.

Quoted from Gaffer58

So those that still give Mr Hurst 100%, at what point would you decide that enough is enough ?

Doesn't matter. He's here until the board decide otherwise, so either support him or don't.

Quoted from Gaffer58

So those that still give Mr Hurst 100%, at what point would you decide that enough is enough ?

For me personally if it gets to the point we can't get into the playoffs position this season (mathematically) if it goes down to the last couple of games then I'm not sure what to think. My personal hope and expectation is a top 7 finish. I don't expect us to be promoted (obviously I want us to be) but I expect us to get into that top 7.