Absolutely "nailed on" must win game. Anything less than 3 points and I'm afraid PH will have to take a long hard look at himself.

Altrincham have exactly the same recent form as us (lost 5 drawn 1) so without wanting to state the obvious, 3 points really is a must.

yep absolutely

in as bad a form as us, we simply cannot afford to not win this game

Agreed. This isn’t a Watford case or something where they puzzlingly sack their manager whilst sitting 14th in the PL and everyone says - well where did they expect to be??

Defeat on Saturday and you would have to say he’s not achieving anything near where he should be and ultimately failing at his job.

I wonder how much longer the owners will give Hurst before the continual poor form means his position is untenable.

I'm not saying I want him to go, far from it, but just how much more can the owners take before they have to act.

Yep a win please to put an end to this slump and then some new recruits to back it up. Please cheer me up!

Bromley and Wrexham up after this one too so this absolutely has to be a win. No excuses.

Would probably avoid building this up as a “win or you’re sacked” game for Hurst because I think it’s pretty clear he’s going absolutely nowhere, certainly not in the middle of a transfer window.

Management expectation so as to not be disappointed if we do lose.

Quoted from ska face

Would probably avoid building this up as a “win or you’re sacked” game for Hurst because I think it’s pretty clear he’s going absolutely nowhere, certainly not in the middle of a transfer window.

Management expectation so as to not be disappointed if we do lose.

At what point does it get nasty on the terraces?

Quoted from jamesgtfc

At what point does it get nasty on the terraces?

Already happened at Dagenham!

I’m going to presume that we won’t be in any danger of relegation. I suspect that the board may prefer to stick with the current managerial set up to the end of the season, even if we bounce around between 7th and 14th.
It’s difficult to know the details of what the relationship is between Hurst/Doig and JS/AP but I get the impression that they’re looking for stability/continuity if they can, and are prepared to take a long term view. The challenge there is that they will then come under pressure from large portions of the fan base if the results continue to be substandard. Personally I find this tricky too and there is a degree of conflict - I don’t think recent results are acceptable. I don’t think mid/lower table is acceptable. I don’t think we should accept mediocrity. But……I do understand that continuity can be the platform you need to build a proper challenge and that it takes time. Paul Hurst is a good manager, and is very well thought of by those who have worked for him - I know that for a fact. Losing the number and quality of players we have in recent weeks is really disappointing and unhelpful. A succession of further poor results from this point will make things really toxic and then our chances will be further limited. We need players and we need results. And quick.

Quoted from chaos33

I’m going to presume that we won’t be in any danger of relegation. I suspect that the board may prefer to stick with the current managerial set up to the end of the season, even if we bounce around between 7th and 14th.
It’s difficult to know the details of what the relationship is between Hurst/Doig and JS/AP but I get the impression that they’re looking for stability/continuity if they can, and are prepared to take a long term view. The challenge there is that they will then come under pressure from large portions of the fan base if the results continue to be substandard. Personally I find this tricky too and there is a degree of conflict - I don’t think recent results are acceptable. I don’t think mid/lower table is acceptable. I don’t think we should accept mediocrity. But……I do understand that continuity can be the platform you need to build a proper challenge and that it takes time. Paul Hurst is a good manager, and is very well thought of by those who have worked for him - I know that for a fact. Losing the number and quality of players we have in recent weeks is really disappointing and unhelpful. A succession of further poor results from this point will make things really toxic and then our chances will be further limited. We need players and we need results. And quick.

Continued poor form will result in continuing falls in gate income. We’re already well over 1000 fans down on our Notts County home gate. We’re also six squad members down plus Efete and Clifton for Saturday.

It’s pretty clear that Hurst isn’t in trouble as he wouldn’t be getting the window to sort it but most would have been sacked by now.

Quoted from chaos33

I’m going to presume that we won’t be in any danger of relegation. I suspect that the board may prefer to stick with the current managerial set up to the end of the season, even if we bounce around between 7th and 14th.
It’s difficult to know the details of what the relationship is between Hurst/Doig and JS/AP but I get the impression that they’re looking for stability/continuity if they can, and are prepared to take a long term view. The challenge there is that they will then come under pressure from large portions of the fan base if the results continue to be substandard. Personally I find this tricky too and there is a degree of conflict - I don’t think recent results are acceptable. I don’t think mid/lower table is acceptable. I don’t think we should accept mediocrity. But……I do understand that continuity can be the platform you need to build a proper challenge and that it takes time. Paul Hurst is a good manager, and is very well thought of by those who have worked for him - I know that for a fact. Losing the number and quality of players we have in recent weeks is really disappointing and unhelpful. A succession of further poor results from this point will make things really toxic and then our chances will be further limited. We need players and we need results. And quick.

you sum my thoughts perfectly Chaos - have a gold star! 8)

I do think it is a must win. Not just for Hurst but 1878 too - the long term plan is starting to look a bit iffy. I don’t doubt that Hurst is a safe pair of hands but we expect (rightly or wrongly) a bit more than we’re getting at present. As quick as support for a cause is built it can be lost.

All this talk about bringing new players in, I doubt if any will be better than what we already have.

1. A right back (or 2) desperately needed immediately from somewhere, who is already match fit and good to go ! Any wouldbe right footed Townsends kicking about who need game time?

2. Can Hurst find a tough attacking midfielder ?

Any Embletons or Matetes around?

3. Where is the extra elusive forward going to be found?

Woking's Campbell worth a bid ? Younger more mobile version of the Shop?

I wouldn't want to be paying Hurst's phone bill this week ?

And then he has the whole Fishy world demanding a win on Saturday !!

Easy peasy job, anyone ??????

What are people's realistic expectations for Saturday? I expect the crowd to be well down again, maybe just over the 4k mark, one or two new additions to the squad but if Coke comes in for Clifton that weakens us, i'd guess Wright may get a start instead of Sousa but that's a like for like swap. I like Taylor but we have to play to feet to get the best out of him as he can't run the channels so to me we just look like a plodding mid lower table team juggling our expanding collection of wide men to hopefully find a spark.

I think context is needed. For the last 6 games we've come up against a team in and around the playoffs (including Stockport in the FAT) mainly without our best player and mainly away from home. 1 point isn't good enough that's clear but what would sacking hurst achieve. If we sack him now we are unlikely to have somebody in place until the end of Jan so the transfer window would be fairly pointless even if we can sign players after the deadline. I say give him the next 10 games. It should be a better measure of how good we are as it includes a mix of better and worse teams and home and away games We should be looking for something close to 2 points a match in that time. If not we look elsewhere and give them time to prepare for next season.

Quoted from forza ivano

you sum my thoughts perfectly Chaos - have a gold star! 8)

Just trying to be fair, balanced, philosophical. Realistically speaking, I think it will be really, really difficult to acquire half a dozen players, and it will also be really tricky if results don’t turn. Hostility from the terraces would be unhelpful, but probably understandable.

Has anybody noticed the similarities with last year at this time? Yes, we have new owners, but on the pitch not a lot has changed.

Hurst commented last year the club was a mess and this year it's his mess, the mess that he created. According to Hurst Bapaga didn't play because he was ill, whereas in reality, he was going back to Coventry. I've not been keen on Revan but he was a cover player at best, but now he's gone back meaning no cover for Efete as Clifton has been suspended. Not much thought about cover when Harry was carrying 4 yellows!

How many weeks/months to sign or loan a No 9 and still no progress. Bell was only a temporary loan to cover for McAtee's suspension. Hurst has known his position for wanting new blood in the squad and might have expected to hit the 1st Jan running, instead of nothing. We are nearly 2 weeks into the transfer window and 6 out and none in means a deficit of players.

Thank goodness it's not as bad as last year because we won't get relegated, but no wins in 11 is one of the worst runs we have been on. Nobody is faulting the effort of the teams but I am getting the impression that the sheep are performing to the best of their ability, which is not good enough.

Fine lines and on the edge of the margins are good-sounding excuses but don't get 3 points. It does get 3 points for the opposition though on several occasions. 3 points on Saturday are a must with no excuses, otherwise, I think JS & AP might get a different response from fans. Sustainability is great and I see where 1878 wants to go but it's results on the pitch that count. I'm OK with the plan for the long term and keeping a steady ship but the fans need feeding.

Quoted from Bawmariner

I think context is needed. For the last 6 games we've come up against a team in and around the playoffs (including Stockport in the FAT) mainly without our best player and mainly away from home. 1 point isn't good enough that's clear but what would sacking hurst achieve. If we sack him now we are unlikely to have somebody in place until the end of Jan so the transfer window would be fairly pointless even if we can sign players after the deadline. I say give him the next 10 games. It should be a better measure of how good we are as it includes a mix of better and worse teams and home and away games We should be looking for something close to 2 points a match in that time. If not we look elsewhere and give them time to prepare for next season.

For me, the context is we’re 12 or 13 places further down the league ladder than we were when he took over.

I wholly accept that he was left with a train wreck but he’s now in his third transfer window. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect better than we’re getting right now.

The highest position Town have been in since Paul Hurst became manager was the day before he got the job, its been down hill all the way since, in fact don't count out the fact that we on present form will be closer to relegation than promotion soon, & as for the owners !  watch the crowd on Saturday and weep, that's probably going to be the lowest crowd of the season & it's his management that  is costing you a fortune in lost revenue. before you blast me with loads of X's, tell me i am wrong.

No it’s not unreasonable OC,  and I suspect everyone agrees on that. The notion that we just get rid and start again though is flawed in my view, and oversimplifies the challenge that faces us. You want to be in control of decisions and react to circumstances calmly and with perspective. A few more games with poor results and the owners will lose their grip of that, and then we’re reacting and operating in crisis mode. Nobody wants that. A win on Saturday will set things a little more satisfactorily.

Quoted from WayneBurnettsJockstrap

I wonder how much longer the owners will give Hurst before the continual poor form means his position is untenable.

I'm not saying I want him to go, far from it, but just how much more can the owners take before they have to act.

Already been more than enough reason to get rid of him and they haven’t yet. Starting to think he’s got a job for life, regardless of his performance

Quoted from chaos33

No it’s not unreasonable OC,  and I suspect everyone agrees on that. The notion that we just get rid and start again though is flawed in my view, and oversimplifies the challenge that faces us. You want to be in control of decisions and react to circumstances calmly and with perspective. A few more games with poor results and the owners will lose their grip of that, and then we’re reacting and operating in crisis mode. Nobody wants that. A win on Saturday will set things a little more satisfactorily.

I’m not prone to gold stars but you’ve got one.

I’m not sure that re-employing managers is the right thing to do. Sure, it worked with Buckley mark 2 but failed miserably with mark 3 and subsequently with Slade. I’m afraid that I see a squad that has talent but not consistency and a manager that is, again, struggling to cope with the expectation that the new owners (probably without meaning to) have created.

I’m really concerned that the business of running a football club isn’t what JS/AP thought it would be as so much of it isn’t within their control. But that’s another thing entirely.

I don’t think the owners would have had any intention of sacking Hurst this season, within all conceivable circumstances. This club has gained a reputation as a graveyard for managers (and also players to a degree) and it’s in our long-term interest to address that.

The trouble is, 1 win and 9 defeats in 11 games wasn’t frankly conceivable at the start of this season, and now we have a further issue whereby we’re having an impromptu clear out of players and a sudden need for numbers. This isn’t usually the kind of environment that breeds sound recruitment, and if we can’t get the players that we want, then what? What choice to we have but to panic buy on short-term deals. Again.

The harsh reality is that fans will soon start to become restless, if they aren’t already, and a small but vocal faction are soon going to vent their frustration at the owners if form continues and Hurst remains in situ. I’m not condoning that kind of approach, but that’s what happens in football, not just Grimsby Town.

I know Jason spoke recently on the podcast about his surprise and disappointment of the reaction of some fans on social media over the flag, so it will be interesting how long the owners can keep their cool and their finger off the trigger if the winds of discontent start blowing in their direction.

I hope upon hope that we turn this around. I’d love Hurst to succeed here, not least because I want us to succeed and because I don’t have the appetite for another round of total rebuilding. And there are some mitigating circumstances and some nuances to our run of form.

But few people on here would argue otherwise; 1 win and 9 defeats in 11 at this level is unacceptable. 10th and dropping like a stone is unacceptable. The current state and size of the squad is unacceptable, as is the need to add so many players in January.

This season has quickly descended from the happiest of beginnings into an utter mess. I don’t think we can afford to write off this season, nor do I think the level of anger and discontent would be tolerable if we sunk into the bottom half of the National League, territory we’ve never really been in, even in our darkest, Serge Makofo-mix-up moments.

I think we have sensible, reasonable owners and by and large I think the fans have been reasonable thus far. But it would be foolish to suggest that the clock isn’t ticking in terms of an urgent need to see an uptick in results.

Personally i can see JS & AP selling up if the fans continue to moan like F*ck (and i wouldn't even blame them) simply because of their unrealistic yes UNREALISTIC expectations of winning the league.  

It has nothing to do with 1 win in 11 or what ever it is that you use to justify your moaning. I've had enough, every post is negative nothing positive or even a balanced argument, too many old knuckle draggers stubborn as f*ck its boring.

Good Night!!

And someone else can do that Prediction Thread ive had enough too many male masturbation*rs on here for me.

Quoted from Meza

Personally i can see JS & AP selling up if the fans continue to moan like F*ck (and i wouldn't even blame them) simply because of their unrealistic yes UNREALISTIC expectations of winning the league.  

It has nothing to do with 1 win in 11 or what ever it is that you use to justify your moaning. I've had enough, every post is negative nothing positive or even a balanced argument, too many old knuckle draggers stubborn as f*ck its boring.

Good Night!!

There's not hundreds of people saying they expect to win the league though, but I do think its realistic to expect to finish in the top half of division 5 the owners must understand that.

As for 1 win in 11 thats unacceptable at any level.

The distribution of wins & losses won’t do him any favours, whilst ultimately delivering a final result which will probably be enough to keep his job.

10 wins, 8 losses so far but clustered together which probably gives a skewed view of the overall picture when you’re the in the middle of one of these runs. If we’d won one, lost one, drawn one all season long then it would be frustrating, but not earth shattering. If the board, and Hurst, were expecting mid table then he’ll probably deliver.

It’ll be interesting to see if our form starts to level off in the second half of the season or follows the peaks & troughs we’ve seen so far. We might end up with 4/5 more experienced signings who’ll give you 6 or 7 out of 10 every week rather than the youngsters who are a bit more unpredictable.

Can’t see there being any decision until March at the absolute earliest

Will be shopping with the wife instead, get more value, no signings, no me, the way it is.

Looking forward to the start of our next run! 🤞🤞UTM!

Quoted from Meza

Personally i can see JS & AP selling up if the fans continue to moan like F*ck (and i wouldn't even blame them) simply because of their unrealistic yes UNREALISTIC expectations of winning the league.  

It has nothing to do with 1 win in 11 or what ever it is that you use to justify your moaning. I've had enough, every post is negative nothing positive or even a balanced argument, too many old knuckle draggers stubborn as f*ck its boring.

Good Night!!

I bet you thought he was good enough to keep us up last season and you also probably thought Neil Woods would have kept us up in 2010.

Quoted Text

watch the crowd on Saturday and weep, that's probably going to be the lowest crowd of the season & it's his management that  is costing you a fortune in lost revenue. before you blast me with loads of X's, tell me i am wrong.

I commented on another thread last night about this and in demonstrates that despite all the comments we read on here about the Buckley days and being critical as soon as a long ball is played that in reality all a number of fans care about is the result and can’t enjoy a match unless we’ve won.

I acknowledge this bad run has gone on far too long and needs to be addressed however, the vast majority of the defeats were in away matches and our home form has remained very good despite the two defeats. Furthermore the vast majority of home matches have been very enjoyable and entertaining including the two games that were lost as pretty evenly matched teams battled it out and unfortunately we were the losers.

I like winning as much as the next man but I also want to enjoy going to BP and this season I have albeit I’m drunk off when we lose and face the trip back to Lincoln in depressed mode but once you look back at the game I can rationally look back and say it was a match worth going to. Luckily our poorer performances have resulted in wins and that always makes attending worthwhile.

I understand fans moaning about where we are in the league and this dreadful run but turning your back on attending when the home matches have been entertaining seems to me self defeating and shows I guess that we really only have a hard core of between 3 & 4 thousand fans and the rest would be regarded in “Fishy Terms” as plastic supporters.

Quoted from Meza

Personally i can see JS & AP selling up if the fans continue to moan like F*ck (and i wouldn't even blame them) simply because of their unrealistic yes UNREALISTIC expectations of winning the league.  

It has nothing to do with 1 win in 11 or what ever it is that you use to justify your moaning. I've had enough, every post is negative nothing positive or even a balanced argument, too many old knuckle draggers stubborn as f*ck its boring.

Good Night!!

I think those expecting us to win the league are in the minority but I do think most fans expected the play-offs and at every club up and down the land, expectations change as the season progresses and our start certainly raised those for a lot.

No matter how you look at it, managers get sacked for doing much better than 1 win and a draw in 11 games. The concerning thing for me is that Hurst has started saying that short-term business is looking easier to do than the longer-term approach Pettit told us all we were taking this month.

Yes short-term fixes might be easier but we've all been sold that we're building something and looking at another summer of 15+ signings.

Quoted from Swansea_Mariner

There's not hundreds of people saying they expect to win the league though, but I do think its realistic to expect to finish in the top half of division 5 the owners must understand that.

As for 1 win in 11 thats unacceptable at any level.

No maybe not but then im a little more of a realist then some on here (winning the league ffs). seriously, just take a moment and go through some of the threads and tell me how many are positive or even balanced views not very many i tell you.  It gets a bit too much for me when negativity is in every thread, maybe its because i've been on this forum a long time and nothing has changed lol.  

Anyway have a great 2022,

Quoted from jamesgtfc

I think those expecting us to win the league are in the minority but I do think most fans expected the play-offs and at every club up and down the land, expectations change as the season progresses and our start certainly raised those for a lot.

No matter how you look at it, managers get sacked for doing much better than 1 win and a draw in 11 games. The concerning thing for me is that Hurst has started saying that short-term business is looking easier to do than the longer-term approach Pettit told us all we were taking this month.

Yes short-term fixes might be easier but we've all been sold that we're building something and looking at another summer of 15+ signings.

You certainly wouldn’t expect us to be six points off the playoffs given where we were just over two months ago.

It’s very difficult to believe that something hasn’t happened behind the scenes and it’s worrying how few are contracted beyond this season.

Quoted from arryarryarry

I bet you thought he was good enough to keep us up last season and you also probably thought Neil Woods would have kept us up in 2010.

I actually think PH is a good manager.  And NW took the job because of his affinity with GTFC i actually felt sorry for him he was hung out to dry by the board and by the players he inherited.  He should have never have been put in that position (he is too modest to turn down), its like painting a target on your back and then walking into the pontoon.  Is that a good enough answer for ya.

Quoted from Lincoln Mariner 56

I commented on another thread last night about this and in demonstrates that despite all the comments we read on here about the Buckley days and being critical as soon as a long ball is played that in reality all a number of fans care about is the result and can’t enjoy a match unless we’ve won.

I acknowledge this bad run has gone on far too long and needs to be addressed however, the vast majority of the defeats were in away matches and our home form has remained very good despite the two defeats. Furthermore the vast majority of home matches have been very enjoyable and entertaining including the two games that were lost as pretty evenly matched teams battled it out and unfortunately we were the losers.

I like winning as much as the next man but I also want to enjoy going to BP and this season I have albeit I’m drunk off when we lose and face the trip back to Lincoln in depressed mode but once you look back at the game I can rationally look back and say it was a match worth going to. Luckily our poorer performances have resulted in wins and that always makes attending worthwhile.

I understand fans moaning about where we are in the league and this dreadful run but turning your back on attending when the home matches have been entertaining seems to me self defeating and shows I guess that we really only have a hard core of between 3 & 4 thousand fans and the rest would be regarded in “Fishy Terms” as plastic supporters.

Completely agree with this. Granted, I haven’t been to any away games this season, but based on performances I’ve seen in the home games we’ve been as good as I can remember for several years. Whilst I’d love to have seen Towler and Hunt stay, the other loanees haven’t been overly impressive, so pleased they’ve gone to make space for better.

Fully expect we will win on Saturday (and DB will immediately lurch to the other extreme) and PH will bring in some good new players pretty soon.

Quoted from Meza

I actually think PH is a good manager.  And NW took the job because of his affinity with GTFC i actually felt sorry for him he was hung out to dry by the board and by the players he inherited.  He should have never have been put in that position (he is too modest to turn down), its like painting a target on your back and then walking into the pontoon.  Is that a good enough answer for ya.

If PH was that good a manager he should have done a better job of trying to keep us up last season, as for Neil Woods after his disastrous time as temp manager he should have had the decency to turn the job down, there have been plenty of assistant managers at other clubs who have stepped into the top job when a manager has been sacked but didn't want the main job. Even if he wanted to be the manager he should have walked away well before the end of the season.    

Quoted from Roast Em Bobby

Completely agree with this. Granted, I haven’t been to any away games this season, but based on performances I’ve seen in the home games we’ve been as good as I can remember for several years. Whilst I’d love to have seen Towler and Hunt stay, the other loanees haven’t been overly impressive, so pleased they’ve gone to make space for better.

Fully expect we will win on Saturday (and DB will immediately lurch to the other extreme) and PH will bring in some good new players pretty soon.

Draw if we're lucky............. See my post 18 on this thread.

Quoted from arryarryarry

If PH was that good a manager he should have done a better job of trying to keep us up last season, as for Neil Woods after his disastrous time as temp manager he should have had the decency to turn the job down, there have been plenty of assistant managers at other clubs who have stepped into the top job when a manager has been sacked but didn't want the main job. Even if he wanted to be the manager he should have walked away well before the end of the season.    

Thats bollo(ks and you know it he aint got a magic wand, had very little time to get people in yet you still expected to stay up.  Not once did i think PH was to blame, if he got us out it would have been amazing but if it meant JF or new owners in non league i took the latter.  and lot of others said this as well yet know JS AP are being questioned, its ridiculous.

Quoted from Meza

Thats bollo(ks and you know it he aint got a magic wand, had very little time to get people in yet you still expected to stay up.  Not once did i think PH was to blame, if he got us out it would have been amazing but if it meant JF or new owners in non league i took the latter.  and lot of others said this as well yet know JS AP are being questioned, its ridiculous.

Erm...............he had most of Holloway's squad plus was it 12 of his own players some he chose because they were his mates and he still ended up with a worse points per game total than Holloway.

Quoted from Meza

Thats bollo(ks and you know it he aint got a magic wand, had very little time to get people in yet you still expected to stay up.  Not once did i think PH was to blame, if he got us out it would have been amazing but if it meant JF or new owners in non league i took the latter.  and lot of others said this as well yet know JS AP are being questioned, its ridiculous.

I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make.

I’m sure that, under any previous regime, most if not all fans including Jason and Andrew, would be pretty drunk off if we’d only won one in eleven. It’s not good, but they know that, they’ve decided to back PH and I hope it’s the right call.

I think fans have unrealistic expectations of our standing right now. We are non league and are competing against sides as big or bigger than we are. Certainly sides that have had more time to stabilise and build squads: some of whom have much bigger budgets and some who have access to more players than we do because of their geography.

When Chesterfield went down 4 years ago, they finished 14th in their first season and 20th in their second season. It wasn't until last season that they made the play offs by 1 point. Notts County are huge at this level but are still down here, while sides like Sutton, Harrogate and Barrow are plying their trade in the EFL.

Between 2015 and 2018, Chesterfield had 10 managers and none could stop the slide from League 1 to non league and I bet some of those managers would be applying for the Town job should it become available. Since they entered non league they have had 5 more managers, with the current incumbent being in post for 18 months, by far the longest stint since their problems started. Guess you can tell what my point is.

It's going to be a slog to get out of this league and isn't going to happen overnight. We may still make the play offs and with a bit of luck and a fair wind, could even prevail, but the likelihood is that we will still be in this league at the start of next season.

I know it's not a popular opinion and please feel free to pick it to pieces, but for me, what we need right now is stability and building a squad to compete at the right end of the league. I think Hurst is capable of that and has shown it in the past, so I would be inclined to stick with what we have and ride out this terrible run we are on.

Quoted from arryarryarry

Erm...............he had most of Holloway's squad plus was it 12 of his own players some he chose because they were his mates and he still ended up with a worse points per game total than Holloway.

Arry, just take a second and reflect what you have just posted.

I seem to remember alot on this forum understood why PH went for certain mates as you say, you know why Arry cos they give a excrement and at a time where PH needed soldiers not boys, ya know people that know you and trust you, unfortunately it wasn't enough. But feel free to twist this to match your agenda like you do everytime.

For this club to be successful things need to be the exact opposite to the last decade under Fenty.

What that means is a long term view with a growth plan from the Board and as JS has said having faith in the manager to get on with his job and build something thats sustainable. All of the above takes time.

This club has potential for sure even if the current squad falls short but currently both are at the start of a forming-storming-norming-performing process which will in my view once again at this level take a few seasons to complete.

Saturday is arguably a must win in terms of getting us in a better place for a couple of bigger tests and pretty much in my mind a top 7 finish but this is not must win for the manager and in my view overall that’s something I can live with for the time being.

All that said I’d still like 3 points on Saturday and I’d really like us to beat Bromley (leary Southern tw@ts) nothing to do with bias to be honest but we now need to start beating teams above us unless this season will be over sooner than we’d all like .

Quoted from ginnywings

I think fans have unrealistic expectations of our standing right now. We are non league and are competing against sides as big or bigger than we are. Certainly sides that have had more time to stabilise and build squads: some of whom have much bigger budgets and some who have access to more players than we do because of their geography.

When Chesterfield went down 4 years ago, they finished 14th in their first season and 20th in their second season. It wasn't until last season that they made the play offs by 1 point. Notts County are huge at this level but are still down here, while sides like Sutton, Harrogate and Barrow are plying their trade in the EFL.

Between 2015 and 2018, Chesterfield had 10 managers and none could stop the slide from League 1 to non league and I bet some of those managers would be applying for the Town job should it become available. Since they entered non league they have had 5 more managers, with the current incumbent being in post for 18 months, by far the longest stint since their problems started. Guess you can tell what my point is.

It's going to be a slog to get out of this league and isn't going to happen overnight. We may still make the play offs and with a bit of luck and a fair wind, could even prevail, but the likelihood is that we will still be in this league at the start of next season.

I know it's not a popular opinion and please feel free to pick it to pieces, but for me, what we need right now is stability and building a squad to compete at the right end of the league. I think Hurst is capable of that and has shown it in the past, so I would be inclined to stick with what we have and ride out this terrible run we are on.

And what about the teams that didn’t take long to bounce back . Bristol Rovers, Cheltenham , Leyton Orient, Tranmere.

Honestly think it's more about lack of quality in skill rather than hard work by the players.
When we were riding high at the start of the season, we were relying on loan players now that they have gone, we are back to square one.
Failure to gamble to buy players at the start of the season is coming home to roost.
One of PH faults imo is that he believes he can make a silk purse out of a sows ear reference players

Quoted from Garth

Honestly think it's more about lack of quality in skill rather than hard work by the players.
When we were riding high at the start of the season, we were relying on loan players now that they have gone, we are back to square one.
Failure to gamble to buy players at the start of the season is coming home to roost.
One of PH faults imo is that he believes he can make a silk purse out of a sows ear reference players

Interesting then that one of Halifax’s fans commented earlier that he thought their manager would get more out of our players.

Quoted from Garth

Failure to gamble to buy players at the start of the season is coming home to roost.

You can argue that the other way as well though, Imagine if we'd signed Revan and Bapaga on 2 or 3 year deals, and realised 6 months in that they weren't up to it. We've had our fair share of that scenario happening in recent years. If we get some new ones in soon (which I'm sure we will) and they turn out having a more positive effect, then the loan system could work in our favour.

Quoted from Roast Em Bobby

You can argue that the other way as well though, Imagine if we'd signed Revan and Bapaga on 2 or 3 year deals, and realised 6 months in that they weren't up to it. We've had our fair share of that scenario happening in recent years. If we get some new ones in soon (which I'm sure we will) and they turn out having a more positive effect, then the loan system could work in our favour.

Revan and Bapaga would probably be outside our wages budget in the first place.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Interesting then that one of Halifax’s fans commented earlier that he thought their manager would get more out of our players.

I was shocked when I googled Pete Wild the other week and realised he was only 38! I thought he was about 60! Wild looks like Chris Wilder’s older brother.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Revan and Bapaga would probably be outside our wages budget in the first place.

Which tells you everything that is wrong with the game at the moment.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Interesting then that one of Halifax’s fans commented earlier that he thought their manager would get more out of our players.

Also interesting that their Manager said we are one of the best teams they've played this season, and that he expects us to be up near the top by the end of the season.

If PH did end up leaving (which I personally hope won't happen) then I do think Peter Wilde should be targetted for the job.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Revan and Bapaga would probably be outside our wages budget in the first place.

Yeah, I agree. So another + point of using loans.

I did read earlier today in the Sheffield Star that Wednesday wanted us to pay Hunt's full wages rather than a portion (which is what we had been paying) and that is why he's been sent back. I'm still clinging to the hope that there is some truth in the rumour that we tried to sign Hunt permanently, and that it might still happen.

Quoted from jamesgtfc

Which tells you everything that is wrong with the game at the moment.

Any evidence for that or is it just an assumption to support the same old arguement

Quoted from HerveJosse

Any evidence for that or is it just an assumption to support the same old arguement

It’s not an assumption. Youngsters signing their first contracts at Prem clubs are on as much as 5k a week.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

It’s not an assumption. Youngsters signing their first contracts at Prem clubs are on as much as 5k a week.

Bagapaa is with a team just promoted from First division to championship and Revan is an 18 year old academy player. They wouldn’t have been here if they had full contracts with Premier League clubs.

Quoted from HerveJosse

Any evidence for that or is it just an assumption to support the same old arguement

There is plenty of evidence that academies are harbouring young players on astronomical wages that will never go on to play in their first team.

In fact I seem to recall Russell Slade saying he enquired about bringing one player in on loan and then he discovered how many thousands he earned every week.

Bapaga was driving a 71 plate Mercedes which he couldn't park the other week. It's hardly the kind of car you drive as a young pro trying to find your way in the game on £200 a week is it?

Quoted from jamesgtfc

There is plenty of evidence that academies are harbouring young players on astronomical wages that will never go on to play in their first team.

In fact I seem to recall Russell Slade saying he enquired about bringing one player in on loan and then he discovered how many thousands he earned every week.

Bapaga was driving a 71 plate Mercedes which he couldn't park the other week. It's hardly the kind of car you drive as a young pro trying to find your way in the game on £200 a week is it?

So it’s an assumption then

Quoted from HerveJosse

So it’s an assumption then

I know a couple of lads who have been at Prem clubs in the last few years. Both have been on more than 100k a year.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

I know a couple of lads who have been at Prem clubs in the last few years. Both have been on more than 100k a year.

In case you didn’t get it Bagapa is not at a Premier League club

Quoted from HerveJosse

And what about the teams that didn’t take long to bounce back . Bristol Rovers, Cheltenham , Leyton Orient, Tranmere.

What about them?

I've provided evidence and stats that back up my opinion that changing managers doesn't necessarily work and that dropping to non league is difficult to adjust to, especially as the club has probably been on a downward spiral for years.

You have replied with whataboutery.

For every team that bounces back quickly, there are scores that don't.

Quoted from HerveJosse

In case you didn’t get it Bagapa is not at a Premier League club

Revan is. So were my friends sons.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Revan is. So were my friends sons.

Revan is an 18 year old technically he is on loan from Aston Villa under 23,s . If you think we are paying more then a few hundred pounds a week you are misguided. We didn’t send him back he was recalled which says it all.

Quoted from HerveJosse

Revan is an 18 year old technically he is on loan from Aston Villa under 23,s . If you think we are paying more then a few hundred pounds a week you are misguided. We didn’t send him back he was recalled which says it all.

The point was what young players are getting paid, not what we are paying to loan them.

This is probably why Andrew Pettit wants us to sign players on a permanent basis rather than subsidise other clubs’ academies.

Quoted from ginnywings

What about them?

I've provided evidence and stats that back up my opinion that changing managers doesn't necessarily work and that dropping to non league is difficult to adjust to, especially as the club has probably been on a downward spiral for years.

You have replied with whataboutery.

For every team that bounces back quickly, there are scores that don't.

I think more accurately it is easier to remember the  teams that stay in the National League and support your arguement such as Chesterfield and easier to forget the ones that don’t stay there and return . For proper football clubs which I include us as one I think the ratio is more like 50/50 and I would rather be in the positive 50 percent then the negative.

Quoted from HerveJosse

So it’s an assumption then

The rumour is that Alex Hunt earns significantly more than your average doctor. He's 21 years old and played 33 senior games; most of which have been in the last few months for a mid-table National League team.

It's a well known fact that young players higher up the pyramid are earning money most of us can only dream of without even playing a first team game.

Some earn less admittedly. Matty Longstaff was apparently playing in the Premier League on a mere £850 a week last season but isn't that still a lot of money for an 18 year old to earn?

Some surprisingly rational comments on this thread and general agreement about where we are at. If we don’t make the play offs then finishing position doesn’t really matter as long as we are showing signs that we are improving for a promotion push next season. Paul Hurst has always improved us year on year so I’m confident he’ll do the same. If not then our owners haven’t got to where that have in life by being afraid to make tough decisions if they think it’s in the best interests of the business. I don’t want a change anytime soon but if it did happen I’d certainly to expect the recruitment process to be superior to anything we’ve had in the last 20 years.

Quoted from HerveJosse

I think more accurately it is easier to remember the  teams that stay in the National League and support your arguement such as Chesterfield and easier to forget the ones that don’t stay there and return . For proper football clubs which I include us as one I think the ratio is more like 50/50 and I would rather be in the positive 50 percent then the negative.

You might be right, but hardly any, particularly in the last 10 years, have bounced straight back.imho it was always unrealistic to think wed buck the trend, given the mess fenty and holloway left us in

Quoted from Vance Warner

Some surprisingly rational comments on this thread and general agreement about where we are at. If we don’t make the play offs then finishing position doesn’t really matter as long as we are showing signs that we are improving for a promotion push next season. Paul Hurst has always improved us year on year so I’m confident he’ll do the same. If not then our owners haven’t got to where that have in life by being afraid to make tough decisions if they think it’s in the best interests of the business. I don’t want a change anytime soon but if it did happen I’d certainly to expect the recruitment process to be superior to anything we’ve had in the last 20 years.

Afraid I disagree with you. Hurst will have had three windows. Failure to reach the playoffs would be the tipping point for me.

Quoted from HerveJosse

I think more accurately it is easier to remember the  teams that stay in the National League and support your arguement such as Chesterfield and easier to forget the ones that don’t stay there and return . For proper football clubs which I include us as one I think the ratio is more like 50/50 and I would rather be in the positive 50 percent then the negative.

So, we are talking about 'proper' football clubs. Well that's a subjective argument as the power in football has shifted considerably over the last decade especially.

I would also question your 50/50 stat, which you have just plucked out of the air.

And saying you would rather be in the positive 50% than the negative. Well who wouldn't?

I am willing to bet that if you named all the 'proper' teams that have gone into non league, there are very few who have come back up inside 3 seasons or more.

Ok I give in we are doomed . The Fishy’s acceptance of mediocrity or worse wins and I retire from it gracefully

Quoted from HerveJosse

Ok I give in we are doomed . The Fishy’s acceptance of mediocrity or worse wins and I retire from it gracefully

Acceptance of mediocrity, or acceptance of the reality?

Quoted from HerveJosse

Ok I give in we are doomed . The Fishy’s acceptance of mediocrity or worse wins and I retire from it gracefully

You're the epitome of everything that's wrong with social media and the general level of debate nowadays.
It's not the black and white case you make out it to be.like most things it's far more nuanced. Looking at a couple of articles it would be truer to say that there are a number of different groupings. There are those that go bust and revive as Phoenix clubs (Chester, Wimbledon,  Darlo). A few sink to a lower level ( boston, kidderminster, york)There are a few who bounce straight back (orient, bristol rovers), some remain non league for many years (wrexham, torquay) and there are others who take a bit of time, but do get promoted, which is by far the biggest group.

I’d have accepted 10th this season. I said it some time ago, it’d probably on here somewhere. I still would. Next season is the defining season for me. Red star bukkake coming up.

Quoted from HerveJosse

Ok I give in we are doomed . The Fishy’s acceptance of mediocrity or worse wins and I retire from it gracefully

Nice one. Byeeee.

Quoted from arryarryarry

Erm...............he had most of Holloway's squad plus was it 12 of his own players some he chose because they were his mates and he still ended up with a worse points per game total than Holloway.

This

Quoted from ginnywings

I think fans have unrealistic expectations of our standing right now. We are non league and are competing against sides as big or bigger than we are. Certainly sides that have had more time to stabilise and build squads: some of whom have much bigger budgets and some who have access to more players than we do because of their geography.

When Chesterfield went down 4 years ago, they finished 14th in their first season and 20th in their second season. It wasn't until last season that they made the play offs by 1 point. Notts County are huge at this level but are still down here, while sides like Sutton, Harrogate and Barrow are plying their trade in the EFL.

Between 2015 and 2018, Chesterfield had 10 managers and none could stop the slide from League 1 to non league and I bet some of those managers would be applying for the Town job should it become available. Since they entered non league they have had 5 more managers, with the current incumbent being in post for 18 months, by far the longest stint since their problems started. Guess you can tell what my point is.

It's going to be a slog to get out of this league and isn't going to happen overnight. We may still make the play offs and with a bit of luck and a fair wind, could even prevail, but the likelihood is that we will still be in this league at the start of next season.

I know it's not a popular opinion and please feel free to pick it to pieces, but for me, what we need right now is stability and building a squad to compete at the right end of the league. I think Hurst is capable of that and has shown it in the past, so I would be inclined to stick with what we have and ride out this terrible run we are on.

Still an apologist then Ginny.

Stability is built on something solid and approaching 30 sinings since Hursts arrival he’s had ample opportunity me thinks.

I don’t expect to win the Leauge but 1 win in 11 will not inspire good players to come.

This carries on and the place will be toxic.

They say there’s money available, so I don’t get why we have waited until the window to sort this as there are plenty of pickings at our level and below.

Apologies for not being an apologist.

Quoted from GibMariner

Still an apologist then Ginny.

Stability is built on something solid and approaching 30 sinings since Hursts arrival he’s had ample opportunity me thinks.

I don’t expect to win the Leauge but 1 win in 11 will not inspire good players to come.

This carries on and the place will be toxic.

They say there’s money available, so I don’t get why we have waited until the window to sort this as there are plenty of pickings at our level and below.

Apologies for not being an apologist.

Care to provide a list of those pickings? Then, care to highlight the ones that would improve us?

Quoted from ginnywings

Acceptance of mediocrity, or acceptance of the reality?

The reality is that we’re going backwards at present. I certainly didn’t envisage our squad needing major surgery just to get a team on the pitch but it does.

For all the hype, not much has actually changed.

Quoted from Lincoln Mariner 56

I commented on another thread last night about this and in demonstrates that despite all the comments we read on here about the Buckley days and being critical as soon as a long ball is played that in reality all a number of fans care about is the result and can’t enjoy a match unless we’ve won.

I acknowledge this bad run has gone on far too long and needs to be addressed however, the vast majority of the defeats were in away matches and our home form has remained very good despite the two defeats. Furthermore the vast majority of home matches have been very enjoyable and entertaining including the two games that were lost as pretty evenly matched teams battled it out and unfortunately we were the losers.

I like winning as much as the next man but I also want to enjoy going to BP and this season I have albeit I’m drunk off when we lose and face the trip back to Lincoln in depressed mode but once you look back at the game I can rationally look back and say it was a match worth going to. Luckily our poorer performances have resulted in wins and that always makes attending worthwhile.

I understand fans moaning about where we are in the league and this dreadful run but turning your back on attending when the home matches have been entertaining seems to me self defeating and shows I guess that we really only have a hard core of between 3 & 4 thousand fans and the rest would be regarded in “Fishy Terms” as plastic supporters.

Very good post. Stop being sensible. 😂

Quoted from marinerdazza

I’d have accepted 10th this season. I said it some time ago, it’d probably on here somewhere. I still would. Next season is the defining season for me. Red star bukkake coming up.

Everyone has different views and opinions. Although I have to say this league is very difficult too get out and i am willing to be patient and don't expect promotion this season or even next.. But what I do expect is a top 7 finish. Money has been chucked around in this league but there's no way we should be finishing outside the top 7. If we do, for me it's a failed season. Yes we are re building, yes it's a fresh start and yes I am 100% behind PH still. But for me, this should be the aim. It's more than reasonable.

UTM

Playoffs are really a minimum for us this season given the resources and budget available to hurst in terms of NL teams .
There are plenty of other options out there , one win in a play off final doesn’t mean he’s the only manager who can accomplish that.

Quoted from lukeo

Everyone has different views and opinions. Although I have to say this league is very difficult too get out and i am willing to be patient and don't expect promotion this season or even next.. But what I do expect is a top 7 finish. Money has been chucked around in this league but there's no way we should be finishing outside the top 7. If we do, for me it's a failed season. Yes we are re building, yes it's a fresh start and yes I am 100% behind PH still. But for me, this should be the aim. It's more than reasonable.

UTM

7th is only 4 places higher than our first two seasons down here last time so not unreasonable. 3 years is my prediction for promotion, didn't necessarily expect the play offs this season but expectations move once the season is underway and having been top after 10 games, those expectations change too.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

The reality is that we’re going backwards at present. I certainly didn’t envisage our squad needing major surgery just to get a team on the pitch but it does.

For all the hype, not much has actually changed.

Does anybody genuinely believe our budget is better than last time we were down here? If it is, then it's been terribly managed to have a squad that was short numbered and unbalanced from day 1 of the season.

With the money in the bank, parachute payments and fan positivity, this was the season to give it a real go. I know there's 3/4 other big spenders, but the message is coming through as more of the same with some minor off field improvements. Maybe major if we get a decent training ground.

Don’t forget that £500,000 immediately disappeared out of the budget into your mate’s back pocket. Plus another £250k for Pollock, £100k from Dembele and £160k from the sale of Grist has disappeared into the same black hole.

That’s £1.1m siphoned from the budget this season before anyone’s had chance to even look at it.

Quoted from ska face

Don’t forget that £500,000 immediately disappeared out of the budget into your mate’s back pocket. Plus another £250k for Pollock, £100k from Dembele and £160k from the sale of Grist has disappeared into the same black hole.

That’s £1.1m siphoned from the budget this season before anyone’s had chance to even look at it.

Won't the £500k be in next seasons budget because I don't think it's due until May but still; £600k in sales and none of it spent on the squad.

Whilst I think the clause insisting we do it is a bit naughty, I would have expected a good proportion of those fees to go towards paying him off anyway.

Quoted from pen penfras

Does anybody genuinely believe our budget is better than last time we were down here? If it is, then it's been terribly managed to have a squad that was short numbered and unbalanced from day 1 of the season.

With the money in the bank, parachute payments and fan positivity, this was the season to give it a real go. I know there's 3/4 other big spenders, but the message is coming through as more of the same with some minor off field improvements. Maybe major if we get a decent training ground.

Passively still defending JSF there!..I would say the off field improvements are far from minor!..

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

Passively still defending JSF there!..I would say the off field improvements are far from minor!..

What major improvements have we seen? Communications that have similar content, but delivered much better. A playing team that has looked short from the off. A website that's slightly better, but looks very similar to the old one. A self inflicted shot in the foot with changing a badge that was against the principles that they developed. Every interview is about being sustainable, which is what we've spent 20 years doing. A new barrier that cost about the same as the top scorer in the league. Some sprinklers that mean we can water the pitch at half time.

It's progress, but it's not major. But the problem is not with the off the field, it's the fact that we have under spent on the team or poorly spent on it. This was the biggest income we are going to have down here short of some 'football fortune', and we know how well waiting for that has worked.

The loans aren't the problem, even the new guys said so. There was a large chunk of them in the bank account and normally new buyers would just pay off the old guy straight away to get a clean break. These were their terms and they've said they expect any money they put in to be paid back too, just through equity rather than loans.

Didn't Stockwood say they've spent £3m on this of their own money already? Ok a large chunk of that was buying up all the necessary shares, but that figure suggests they've spent considerably so far on the work that's taken place. I'd hardly call spending that sort of money minor.

Quoted from pen penfras

What major improvements have we seen? Communications that have similar content, but delivered much better. A playing team that has looked short from the off. A website that's slightly better, but looks very similar to the old one. A self inflicted shot in the foot with changing a badge that was against the principles that they developed. Every interview is about being sustainable, which is what we've spent 20 years doing. A new barrier that cost about the same as the top scorer in the league. Some sprinklers that mean we can water the pitch at half time.

It's progress, but it's not major. But the problem is not with the off the field, it's the fact that we have under spent on the team or poorly spent on it. This was the biggest income we are going to have down here short of some 'football fortune', and we know how well waiting for that has worked.

The loans aren't the problem, even the new guys said so. There was a large chunk of them in the bank account and normally new buyers would just pay off the old guy straight away to get a clean break. These were their terms and they've said they expect any money they put in to be paid back too, just through equity rather than loans.

‘A playing team that has looked short from the off’?!
You know that period when we were winning lots, playing great stuff and were top?

Quite a claim that the glass barrier cost £250000 as well…

Quoted from GibMariner

Still an apologist then Ginny.

Stability is built on something solid and approaching 30 sinings since Hursts arrival he’s had ample opportunity me thinks.

I don’t expect to win the Leauge but 1 win in 11 will not inspire good players to come.

This carries on and the place will be toxic.

They say there’s money available, so I don’t get why we have waited until the window to sort this as there are plenty of pickings at our level and below.

Apologies for not being an apologist.

If you want to label me an apologist, then crack on. If you think ranting about Hurst on here will make any difference to the situation, then again, keep spouting your bile.

The easiest thing in the world is to criticise with no knowledge of, or responsibility for the situation.

If you want to turn the place 'toxic' as you put it, then again feel free to go in the Main stand and hurl abuse at PH. I'm sure it will help.

What are you meant to be ‘apologising’ for anyway Ginny?

Go away.

Quoted from pen penfras

What major improvements have we seen? Communications that have similar content, but delivered much better. A playing team that has looked short from the off. A website that's slightly better, but looks very similar to the old one. A self inflicted shot in the foot with changing a badge that was against the principles that they developed. Every interview is about being sustainable, which is what we've spent 20 years doing. A new barrier that cost about the same as the top scorer in the league. Some sprinklers that mean we can water the pitch at half time.

It's progress, but it's not major. But the problem is not with the off the field, it's the fact that we have under spent on the team or poorly spent on it. This was the biggest income we are going to have down here short of some 'football fortune', and we know how well waiting for that has worked.

The loans aren't the problem, even the new guys said so. There was a large chunk of them in the bank account and normally new buyers would just pay off the old guy straight away to get a clean break. These were their terms and they've said they expect any money they put in to be paid back too, just through equity rather than loans.

What a crock of crap you've spouted there...most of that's on field, I pulled you up on off field!..
Website, we now own our own, not a Lego kit from the EFL, new ticketing system, new training facilities, gym pitch (it's full size now btw), new chefs(nutrionalists), masseurs, analyst, kitman (saves McKeowns wife doing it all, bless her).
And as for commutation, unlike Fenty when these gor it wrong they owned it, didn't send out a merlot ridden ramble at half past boll@x o'clock!..
Shall I carry on?..oh, yes I forgot, we now have round practice balls!..
While Fenty is still pulling this club down(paying his dead weight loans back) we all know the playing budget will be badly affected, get rid of that leper then we'd have half a chance if a bigger playing budget!..

Quoted from MuddyWaters

The reality is that we’re going backwards at present. I certainly didn’t envisage our squad needing major surgery just to get a team on the pitch but it does.

For all the hype, not much has actually changed.

'At present' being the key phrase.

I think you are being overly dramatic to say the squad needs major surgery just to get a team on the pitch.

I'm sure I saw us outplay the current league leaders last Saturday with a strong looking side, which was virtually the same team that was winning every week earlier in the season. The missing parts being Towler and now Hunt, who have both been recalled. Replacing them will be difficult and may not happen for a while, or at all, but it was PH who got them here and I'm sure he's trying hard to find replacements.

Considering the complete pile of dogsh1t left by Holloway, I think the squad is massively improved and would probably hold it's own in league 2.

Yes, there is room for improvement, we all know that, so let's see what the coming fortnight brings before writing off all and sundry.

I know I'm banging a drum that others want to put their big boot through, but hey ho.

Quoted from pen penfras

What major improvements have we seen? Communications that have similar content, but delivered much better. A playing team that has looked short from the off. A website that's slightly better, but looks very similar to the old one. A self inflicted shot in the foot with changing a badge that was against the principles that they developed. Every interview is about being sustainable, which is what we've spent 20 years doing. A new barrier that cost about the same as the top scorer in the league. Some sprinklers that mean we can water the pitch at half time.

It's progress, but it's not major. But the problem is not with the off the field, it's the fact that we have under spent on the team or poorly spent on it. This was the biggest income we are going to have down here short of some 'football fortune', and we know how well waiting for that has worked.

The loans aren't the problem, even the new guys said so. There was a large chunk of them in the bank account and normally new buyers would just pay off the old guy straight away to get a clean break. These were their terms and they've said they expect any money they put in to be paid back too, just through equity rather than loans.

Hurst and the owners have said the money is there,
Hurst is the total opposite to Steve Evans, he will only spend when it's right, and if that means not spending at all, he won't do it.

They apologised about the badge instantly...

The Barrier and sprinkers are catching up to other clubs, something that make a big difference to the feel of the place

Wrexham are 'apparently' paying players 4k a week
Stockport are 'apparently' paying players 3k a week
Chesterfield are 'apparently' paying players 2.5k a week.

I wonder what Sutton players wages was last season....

Spending doesn't mean you get promoted unfortunately.

Quoted from chaos33

What are you meant to be ‘apologising’ for anyway Ginny?

It seems like guilt by association. If I'm not condemning, then I'm part of the problem

Apologist, happy clapper, accepting mediocrity are all terms that get thrown about by people who actually think it makes a difference.

I suppose some see those who have a more balanced argument as not caring enough. We should be storming the ramparts.

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

What a crock of crap you've spouted there...most of that's on field, I pulled you up on off field!..
Website, we now own our own, not a Lego kit from the EFL, new ticketing system, new training facilities, gym pitch (it's full size now btw), new chefs(nutrionalists), masseurs, analyst, kitman (saves McKeowns wife doing it all, bless her).
And as for commutation, unlike Fenty when these gor it wrong they owned it, didn't send out a merlot ridden ramble at half past boll@x o'clock!..
Shall I carry on?..oh, yes I forgot, we now have round practice balls!..
While Fenty is still pulling this club down(paying his dead weight loans back) we all know the playing budget will be badly affected, get rid of that leper then we'd have half a chance if a bigger playing budget!..

I said there's been an improvement. It's not major is it. What difference does owning a website make when the content is virtually identical. It's better, but not massively different. Ticketing system was nothing to do with them. New training facilities are minor, not major, no matter what anybody says, a portacabin isn't state of the art. We've had analysts before.

Yes, things have improved, but calling any of this major is laughable. And to think that anybody really cares when we can't score a goal is equally laughable.

Quoted from pen penfras

And to think that anybody really cares when we can't score a goal is equally laughable.

…and yet, here you are, 11 pages in, still ranting away.

Quoted from pen penfras

I said there's been an improvement. It's not major is it. What difference does owning a website make when the content is virtually identical. It's better, but not massively different. Ticketing system was nothing to do with them. New training facilities are minor, not major, no matter what anybody says, a portacabin isn't state of the art. We've had analysts before.

Yes, things have improved, but calling any of this major is laughable. And to think that anybody really cares when we can't score a goal is equally laughable.

Honestly, I think you believe your own rubbish!..improved training facilities are minor?..give your head a wobble, you're getting silly now..better fitness facilities, better treatment for the players, a pitch they can actually use...and it's not about the building it's about what's inside and all your pal Fenty did was ensure that the dartboard was replaced!..

Quoted from ska face

…and yet, here you are, 11 pages in, still ranting away.

He'll try anything to debunk the new ownership and attempt to compare it to JSFs realm, laughable, honestly it really is..

Quoted from ska face

…and yet, here you are, 11 pages in, still ranting away.

Ah….bitterness …..the gift that keeps on giving 😉

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

Honestly, I think you believe your own rubbish!..improved training facilities are minor?..give your head a wobble, you're getting silly now..better fitness facilities, better treatment for the players, a pitch they can actually use...and it's not about the building it's about what's inside and all your pal Fenty did was ensure that the dartboard was replaced!..

Major improvements would be something like what Lincoln did, spending a lot of their FA Cup money on new facilities opposite RAF Scampton.

Not saying any of it wasn't required but:

Lick of paint: minor
Another portakabin: minor
A bit more gym equipment: minor
Another physio bed: minor
Improvements to the turf: unsure what we did to it

From what I can see, Cheapside doesn't suddenly look state of the art. Staff cars are still under threat from the wayward shooting of misfiring strikers.

What would peoples thoughts be on dropping Sousa this weekend?

I’ll start by saying he is probably my second favourite player behind McAtee, but he doesn’t score and I can hardly remember him assisting anything either. I already feel like there is more end product in JMD from the right so what about Wright on the left from the start or Scannell (can he play on the left??).

Quoted from jamesgtfc

Major improvements would be something like what Lincoln did, spending a lot of their FA Cup money on new facilities opposite RAF Scampton.

Not saying any of it wasn't required but:

Lick of paint: minor
Another portakabin: minor - better facilities for the staff, rest rooms, changing rooms, no longer getting changed in their cars
A bit more gym equipment: minor - but more than a little, plus its now top end and not sports direct rejects.
Another physio bed: minor - 2, new room and employed masseur
Improvements to the turf: unsure what we did to it - Sorted the drainage out, relaid parts of it to make it usable.

From what I can see, Cheapside doesn't suddenly look state of the art. Staff cars are still under threat from the wayward shooting of misfiring strikers.

Another one who doesn't see that as "major" changes to what we had...
Our facilities were p!ss poor at best and when the players even say "it now feels like we are at a professional club" says it all!..
You are correct at what Lincoln did but that wasn't major that was seismic and cannot be compared to our improvements, in the words of Simon Jordan "you're comparing apples with oranges"!..
And let's forget how the pitch at BP was neglected due to penny pinching!..and god only knows the state of things behind the scenes, certainly when the new owners admitted it was worse than they'd thought;..

Quoted from jamesgtfc

Major improvements would be something like what Lincoln did, spending a lot of their FA Cup money on new facilities opposite RAF Scampton.

Not saying any of it wasn't required but:

Lick of paint: minor
Another portakabin: minor
A bit more gym equipment: minor
Another physio bed: minor
Improvements to the turf: unsure what we did to it

From what I can see, Cheapside doesn't suddenly look state of the art. Staff cars are still under threat from the wayward shooting of misfiring strikers.

Well I mean the club have been telling us for months they're in the process of trying to get a new training ground built somewhere in the area, so as an interim solution until that happens the upgrades to Cheapside are entirely reasonable if we're expecting to leave it in the short to medium term.

Quoted from Jarmo.Is.God

Hurst and the owners have said the money is there,
Hurst is the total opposite to Steve Evans, he will only spend when it's right, and if that means not spending at all, he won't do it.

They apologised about the badge instantly...

The Barrier and sprinkers are catching up to other clubs, something that make a big difference to the feel of the place

Wrexham are 'apparently' paying players 4k a week
Stockport are 'apparently' paying players 3k a week
Chesterfield are 'apparently' paying players 2.5k a week.

I wonder what Sutton players wages was last season....

Spending doesn't mean you get promoted unfortunately.

https://salarysport.com/football/   I highly doubt the accuracy across the board of this site but I found this a while back and at the very least found it interesting to see the figures. Sadly it doesn't have NL team and although teams seem to be updated with new players from last season, there's some that are still on since departing.

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

Another one who doesn't see that as "major" changes to what we had...
Our facilities were p!ss poor at best and when the players even say "it now feels like we are at a professional club" says it all!..
You are correct at what Lincoln did but that wasn't major that was seismic and cannot be compared to our improvements, in the words of Simon Jordan "you're comparing apples with oranges"!..
And let's forget how the pitch at BP was neglected due to penny pinching!..and god only knows the state of things behind the scenes, certainly when the new owners admitted it was worse than they'd thought;..

I don't dispute that major work has gone into the pitch at BP because that had become an embarrassment. I'm not saying the improvements at Cheapside weren't needed or, I'm just saying they are minor improvements that have had a great impact and like Chrisblor says, given our desire to move our training base, major changes wouldn't really make financial sense.

Quoted from GibMariner

Still an apologist then Ginny.

Stability is built on something solid and approaching 30 sinings since Hursts arrival he’s had ample opportunity me thinks.

I don’t expect to win the Leauge but 1 win in 11 will not inspire good players to come.

This carries on and the place will be toxic.

They say there’s money available, so I don’t get why we have waited until the window to sort this as there are plenty of pickings at our level and below.

Apologies for not being an apologist.

Having the money to spend and finding the right product to spend it on are two completely different things. Throw in a reluctance of the " product " to be bought by you adds another complication. Maybe we are not the ideal club that a lot of footballers aspire to or that we fans think we are. This could be down to a reputation built up by the previous owner, inadequate facillities ( although these are being addressed ) or just not an area that is attractive to a lot of people.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Afraid I disagree with you. Hurst will have had three windows. Failure to reach the playoffs would be the tipping point for me.

Not many managers turn around a sinking ship in 3 windows. It’s that approach that has got us into this mess.

Quoted from Vance Warner

Not many managers turn around a sinking ship in 3 windows. It’s that approach that has got us into this mess.

There aren’t many of the current squad who are even contracted beyond the end of this season. For all we are told that we are building for the future, there seems to be very little forward planning to me. Even today, we’ve signed a player till the end of the season.

Quoted from pen penfras

What major improvements have we seen? Communications that have similar content, but delivered much better. A playing team that has looked short from the off. A website that's slightly better, but looks very similar to the old one. A self inflicted shot in the foot with changing a badge that was against the principles that they developed. Every interview is about being sustainable, which is what we've spent 20 years doing. A new barrier that cost about the same as the top scorer in the league. Some sprinklers that mean we can water the pitch at half time.

It's progress, but it's not major. But the problem is not with the off the field, it's the fact that we have under spent on the team or poorly spent on it. This was the biggest income we are going to have down here short of some 'football fortune', and we know how well waiting for that has worked.

The loans aren't the problem, even the new guys said so. There was a large chunk of them in the bank account and normally new buyers would just pay off the old guy straight away to get a clean break. These were their terms and they've said they expect any money they put in to be paid back too, just through equity rather than loans.

you're such a tossser.

rather than denigrate the fans , or at best just take them for granted, the new owners want us all to be part of the 'project'
And all delivered in a professional, personable and reasonable way, rather than a half arssed rant at half past Malbec on a Saturday night/Sunday morning

ps still desperately searching for evidence of your mate improving the match day experience , the improvement in the adequate training facilities or him shelling out for a new training ground

Quoted from MuddyWaters

There aren’t many of the current squad who are even contracted beyond the end of this season. For all we are told that we are building for the future, there seems to be very little forward planning to me. Even today, we’ve signed a player till the end of the season.

Fair point but as long term contracts are very rare at this level I guess we’re planning as much as we can. Players won’t sign until they know what league we’re going to be in. Sean Scannell is an good example why clubs stick to shorter deals.