Will affect us?

https://twitter.com/TheSunFootball/status/1468654566304530439?t=0Ha9UpsUDAqA-cPxD1ahAw&s=19

"No"in a word

Not really sure what it’s likely to achieve…not sure how it suddenly makes anything safer…

Not really because they said it was only for outdoor venues over 10k capacity. Can only really see it potentially affecting the Wrexham, Notts County and Chesterfield away games.

Won't have any bearing on us at all right now .
They are only required for "outdoor, unseated events of over 4000"..

Genuine question. Does my covid vaccination certificate count as a Covid passport?

Quoted from rancido

Genuine question. Does my covid vaccination certificate count as a Covid passport?

Yes.

You mean the little piece of card when you have the jab? If so no. But if you contact 119 they can arrange for you to be sent an A4 certificate in 5 days and that is all you need, if you don’t have the NHS app on your phone.

While I Agee this won’t affect us because our ground capacity is less then 10000 how can it be ok to attend an indoor Xmas party without restrictions but should work from home and can’t attend outdoor stadium over 10000 without vaccine passport?

Quoted from HerveJosse

While I Agee this won’t affect us because our ground capacity is less then 10000 how can it be ok to attend an indoor Xmas party without restrictions but should work from home and can’t attend outdoor stadium over 10000 without vaccine passport?

Because Tories don’t watch football unless they are on a freebie, own the club or both.

Another load of Covid bo.llocks

Quoted from louth_in_the_south

Another load of Covid bo.llocks

...... until you lose someone to Covid.

You can get one through the NHS App. You need your NHS Number and a few other personal details, phone and/or email

Be warned though, the App has crashed due to "too many applications" (as of 6.30 pm today)

Totally pointless exercise.
Negative LFT will suffice which requires zero verification.
If it follows the pattern that events that have required them so far there will be virtually zero checking.

They can't even follow there own rules so I can't see this going down too well.

Halifax is stated as having capacity of 14000 but they are usually lucky to get 3000 usually so will one be required for Boxing Day. I am sure Boris will have considered this sort of anomaly during his busy day today.

Waits with popcorn and beer to see this turn into (another) political debate/slanging match

Change your name to end in " con MP". You then won't have to follow any rules at all.

With Omicron, double vaccination doesn't really mean much, I'm afraid. There is probably a small amount of protection against infection in the first place but not enough to make a vaccine passport mean much. Too early to know how well 'boosted' people are protected (or not) against infection so a bit pointless to bring this in now. Not to mention that people under 40 couldn't be boosted now in any case! Just a case of the government wanting to be seen doing something. If we only had Delta to deal with, it could be understood, but that's going to be supplanted by Omicron in just weeks.

Quoted from WOZOFGRIMSBY

Waits with popcorn and beer to see this turn into (another) political debate/slanging match

And end up in Non Football.

LEST WE FORGET.....
THE COUNTLESS THOUSANDS WHO SACRRIFICED THEIR LIVES IN TWO WORLD WARS FOR OUR.... 'FREEDOMS....'
FOR THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE...
FOR THE RIGHT TO SAY YES...
FOR THE RIGHT TO SAY NO...
THE FREEDOM TO MAKE YOUR OWN INFORMED CHOICE.

I WEAR A POPPY WITH SADNESS AND REMEMBERENCE,
WITH MASSIVE RESPECT TO THOSE BRAVE PERSONS WHO SACRIFICED SO SO MUCH......
WHAT WOULD THEY SAY NOW IN THE FACE OF COMING APARTHEID AND THE COMING FASCIST STATE WHERE CHOICE IS TAKEN AWAY.. ?
DID THEY NOT LAY DOWN THEIR LIVES AGAINST THESE VERY REGIMES?
I THINK I KNOW WHAT THEY WOULD SAY...
I DO REMEMBER THEM
DO YOU?
:B

Quoted from wuffing

LEST WE FORGET.....
THE COUNTLESS THOUSANDS WHO SACRRIFICED THEIR LIVES IN TWO WORLD WARS FOR OUR.... 'FREEDOMS....'
FOR THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE...
FOR THE RIGHT TO SAY YES...
FOR THE RIGHT TO SAY NO...
THE FREEDOM TO MAKE YOUR OWN INFORMED CHOICE.

I WEAR A POPPY WITH SADNESS AND REMEMBERENCE,
WITH MASSIVE RESPECT TO THOSE BRAVE PERSONS WHO SACRIFICED SO SO MUCH......
WHAT WOULD THEY SAY NOW IN THE FACE OF COMING APARTHEID AND THE COMING FASCIST STATE WHERE CHOICE IS TAKEN AWAY.. ?
DID THEY NOT LAY DOWN THEIR LIVES AGAINST THESE VERY REGIMES?
I THINK I KNOW WHAT THEY WOULD SAY...
I DO REMEMBER THEM
DO YOU?
:B

Yes completely , and we should also remember the poor souls who died of Spanish flu in the early part of the last century because there was no science, information and education to protect them.

Quoted from wuffing

LEST WE FORGET.....
THE COUNTLESS THOUSANDS WHO SACRRIFICED THEIR LIVES IN TWO WORLD WARS FOR OUR.... 'FREEDOMS....'
FOR THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE...
FOR THE RIGHT TO SAY YES...
FOR THE RIGHT TO SAY NO...
THE FREEDOM TO MAKE YOUR OWN INFORMED CHOICE.

I WEAR A POPPY WITH SADNESS AND REMEMBERENCE,
WITH MASSIVE RESPECT TO THOSE BRAVE PERSONS WHO SACRIFICED SO SO MUCH......
WHAT WOULD THEY SAY NOW IN THE FACE OF COMING APARTHEID AND THE COMING FASCIST STATE WHERE CHOICE IS TAKEN AWAY.. ?
DID THEY NOT LAY DOWN THEIR LIVES AGAINST THESE VERY REGIMES?
I THINK I KNOW WHAT THEY WOULD SAY...
I DO REMEMBER THEM
DO YOU?
:B

Plenty of brave people who sacrifice an awful lot working for the NHS right now as well.

Quoted from wuffing

LEST WE FORGET.....
THE COUNTLESS THOUSANDS WHO SACRRIFICED THEIR LIVES IN TWO WORLD WARS FOR OUR.... 'FREEDOMS....'
FOR THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE...
FOR THE RIGHT TO SAY YES...
FOR THE RIGHT TO SAY NO...
THE FREEDOM TO MAKE YOUR OWN INFORMED CHOICE.

I WEAR A POPPY WITH SADNESS AND REMEMBERENCE,
WITH MASSIVE RESPECT TO THOSE BRAVE PERSONS WHO SACRIFICED SO SO MUCH......
WHAT WOULD THEY SAY NOW IN THE FACE OF COMING APARTHEID AND THE COMING FASCIST STATE WHERE CHOICE IS TAKEN AWAY.. ?
DID THEY NOT LAY DOWN THEIR LIVES AGAINST THESE VERY REGIMES?
I THINK I KNOW WHAT THEY WOULD SAY...
I DO REMEMBER THEM
DO YOU?
:B

Why are you shouting?

(flexion)

Quoted from wuffing

LEST WE FORGET.....
THE COUNTLESS THOUSANDS WHO SACRRIFICED THEIR LIVES IN TWO WORLD WARS FOR OUR.... 'FREEDOMS....'
FOR THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE...
FOR THE RIGHT TO SAY YES...
FOR THE RIGHT TO SAY NO...
THE FREEDOM TO MAKE YOUR OWN INFORMED CHOICE.

I WEAR A POPPY WITH SADNESS AND REMEMBERENCE,
WITH MASSIVE RESPECT TO THOSE BRAVE PERSONS WHO SACRIFICED SO SO MUCH......
WHAT WOULD THEY SAY NOW IN THE FACE OF COMING APARTHEID AND THE COMING FASCIST STATE WHERE CHOICE IS TAKEN AWAY.. ?
DID THEY NOT LAY DOWN THEIR LIVES AGAINST THESE VERY REGIMES?
I THINK I KNOW WHAT THEY WOULD SAY...
I DO REMEMBER THEM
DO YOU?
:B

lol. Lmao.

Wuffing you plonker.

Using the World War analogy, you should be happy to do your bit by getting vaccinated, masking up, being prepared to have your social life disrupted. Before you bleat on about the risks of vaccination, its an infinitesimally small risk to take. It’s not exactly being in Bomber Command.

Now fùck off and find your brain.

Amusing (and pertinent):

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/nov/30/anti-mask-blitz-war-public-good

This is a delicate subject managing hard won personal freedom against the needs of the current pandemic. It shows how difficult it is to manage with all countries taking different routes.
Where I am currently has compulsory covid passports, masks outside, and unvaccinated have to pay for their own medical treatment. The only place you can get into without a passport is a supermarket. Any breaches are delt with swiftly with severely. It has one of the lowest covid infection rates world wide. I think it would be worth giving up a few freedoms to follow this model.

Quoted from realist

This is a delicate subject managing hard won personal freedom against the needs of the current pandemic. It shows how difficult it is to manage with all countries taking different routes.
Where I am currently has compulsory covid passports, masks outside, and unvaccinated have to pay for their own medical treatment. The only place you can get into without a passport is a supermarket. Any breaches are delt with swiftly with severely. It has one of the lowest covid infection rates world wide. I think it would be worth giving up a few freedoms to follow this model.

Where are you realist?

Scunthorpe 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

A galaxy, far, far away

Quoted from realist

A galaxy, far, far away

"You been on those funny fags again Rodney"..

The genie’s out the bottle and no Covid passport , mask wearing or continual jabs is going to stop it .

Quoted from louth_in_the_south

The genie’s out the bottle and no Covid passport , mask wearing or continual jabs is going to stop it .

No, but these measures it might well save tens of thousands of lives (maybe more) over the winter months, not to mention reduce the levels of long-term illness with 'Long Covid'  in adults and children which seems to be ignored.

Seems like a win-win to me.

Quoted from Maringer

No, but these measures it might well save tens of thousands of lives (maybe more) over the winter months, not to mention reduce the levels of long-term illness with 'Long Covid'  in adults and children which seems to be ignored.

Seems like a win-win to me.

Exactly, win-win. Surely the objective is to think about the common good sooner than flying off at a tangent using some half baked principle of freedom of choice. Of course there is freedom of choice but those who choose to not take the advice (and I accept this advice has never been perfect) are clearly more concerned about their own principles than the common good. Just a choice…
A couple of years ago I could’ve been described as very much on the Conservative side of life but times have changed and we must be flexible I now have no respect for the Conservative party whatsoever and the clown that runs it But this issue goes way beyond my own Half Baked preconceptions and notions. There is plenty of evidence out there that the world has been a better place with the vaccinations and taking steps to reduce the spread of the virus. My belief, is what right do I have to endanger other people, no problem to endanger myself but what right do I have to endanger others

Quoted from realist

A galaxy, far, far away

Alright then. Just intruiged as to where has rules that unvacinated get charged for own medical treatment.

Quoted from MarinerWY

Alright then. Just intruiged as to where has rules that unvacinated get charged for own medical treatment.

I've read they're charging the unvaccinated for hospital treatment in Singapore. They do have the death penalty there so maybe it's not too surprising.

Being unvaccinated can also be a self-imposed death penalty.

Quoted from Zmariner

Exactly, win-win. Surely the objective is to think about the common good sooner than flying off at a tangent using some half baked principle of freedom of choice. Of course there is freedom of choice but those who choose to not take the advice (and I accept this advice has never been perfect) are clearly more concerned about their own principles than the common good. Just a choice…
A couple of years ago I could’ve been described as very much on the Conservative side of life but times have changed and we must be flexible I now have no respect for the Conservative party whatsoever and the clown that runs it But this issue goes way beyond my own Half Baked preconceptions and notions. There is plenty of evidence out there that the world has been a better place with the vaccinations and taking steps to reduce the spread of the virus. My belief, is what right do I have to endanger other people, no problem to endanger myself but what right do I have to endanger others

How are you endangering others if they're vaccinated?

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Wuffing you plonker.

Using the World War analogy, you should be happy to do your bit by getting vaccinated, masking up, being prepared to have your social life disrupted. Before you bleat on about the risks of vaccination, its an infinitesimally small risk to take. It’s not exactly being in Bomber Command.

Now fùck off and find your brain.

I've said for a while the people who use the world war analogy would be the ones saying during the war, why do I have to get black out curtains, who says I've got to put my light out when it goes dark what do you mean and what do you mean the food is rationed I want another piece of bacon its a breach on my civil liberties etc etc

What do people think about players taking the knee before games?......

Quoted from RobDef1

How are you endangering others if they're vaccinated?

You are increasing the chances of spreading the virus because although they may be vaccinated a vaccinated person can still pick up the virus and pass it to a non-vaccinated person. The objective is to stop the spread of the virus

Double jabbed & boostered myself but these vaccines have proved ineffective at both stopping you getting & transmitting covid , if you check the correct figures & stop watching gmb you will also find that the majority of hospitalisations are vaccinated , also in my humble opionion no vaccine or any other medical procedure should ever be mandated by our government , your going down a very tyrannical pathway if these things are implemented

Quoted from Zmariner

You are increasing the chances of spreading the virus because although they may be vaccinated a vaccinated person can still pick up the virus and pass it to a non-vaccinated person. The objective is to stop the spread of the virus

Are you sure the objective isn't to make 100 billion quid? The vaccinations are proving ineffective as said above, ineffective for those apart from the guys making them... If they were effective then those at risk should have them. That's great, but to force anyone to have it is outrageous.

The vaccines are completely ineffective, except in the way that they seem to be saving millions of lives.

This time last year in the UK, there were about 25k cases daily with around 450 deaths recorded. We're currently having 50k cases daily with 150 deaths. Still excrement, but a tad of an improvement, I'm sure you'll agree?

Anybody who thinks the vaccines aren't working must have had their heads buried in the sand for the past year.

Quoted from Maringer

The vaccines are completely ineffective, except in the way that they seem to be saving millions of lives.

This time last year in the UK, there were about 25k cases daily with around 450 deaths recorded. We're currently having 50k cases daily with 150 deaths. Still excrement, but a tad of an improvement, I'm sure you'll agree?

Anybody who thinks the vaccines aren't working must have had their heads buried in the sand for the past year.

In terms of transmission I think he was referring too.
In preventing serious illness, effective.
Mandating vaccines is disgraceful.

I don't think they are completely ineffective at reducing transmission. Certainly not with Delta where that has been an undoubted reduction. Remains to be seen where we stand with Omicron. Some early data seems to indicate that if you've had prior infection and then been vaccinated, you might have reasonable protection against infection with that one. Too early to be certain, however.

All I see is people getting rich, people getting ill and a buffoon claiming to be running the country…

On another note...so we won't need a vaccine passport for home games

Quoted from Stadium

In terms of transmission I think he was referring too.
In preventing serious illness, effective.
Mandating vaccines is disgraceful.

75% of people in ICU with covid are unvacinated.  A friend of mines son can not have a vital kidney transplant because there are not enough ICU beds for him or his donar.  Why should innocent vacinated people suffer because of those who refuse to have the jab.

Quoted from Squinter

75% of people in ICU with covid are unvacinated.  A friend of mines son can not have a vital kidney transplant because there are not enough ICU beds for him or his donar.  Why should innocent vacinated people suffer because of those who refuse to have the jab.

WRONG.....the true figure of unvaccinated in ICU is circa 36%...and the majority in hospital due to Covid are actually vaccinated....

Quoted from wuffing

LEST WE FORGET.....
THE COUNTLESS THOUSANDS WHO SACRRIFICED THEIR LIVES IN TWO WORLD WARS FOR OUR.... 'FREEDOMS....'
FOR THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE...
FOR THE RIGHT TO SAY YES...
FOR THE RIGHT TO SAY NO...
THE FREEDOM TO MAKE YOUR OWN INFORMED CHOICE.

I WEAR A POPPY WITH SADNESS AND REMEMBERENCE,
WITH MASSIVE RESPECT TO THOSE BRAVE PERSONS WHO SACRIFICED SO SO MUCH......
WHAT WOULD THEY SAY NOW IN THE FACE OF COMING APARTHEID AND THE COMING FASCIST STATE WHERE CHOICE IS TAKEN AWAY.. ?
DID THEY NOT LAY DOWN THEIR LIVES AGAINST THESE VERY REGIMES?
I THINK I KNOW WHAT THEY WOULD SAY...
I DO REMEMBER THEM
DO YOU?
:B

Your ancestors fought, got sent away from their parents to the countryside for protection and had to go to bomb shelters several nights not knowing if they have a home to go back to all for what was the greater good to protect themselves and others....We apparently can't even manage wearing a mask or getting a couple of jabs out of our own sense of petty selfishness over mild inconvinience. If we had bombing raids today like they had back then nobody would turn their lights off or go to the bomb shelter because the rules don't apply to them and how dare the government take away our kids or ask us to fight overseas. Unfortunately, following the second world war was the baby boomers and generation x, two generations who had it so easy thanks to the sacrifices of their elders that they gained a sense of selfishness and entitlement because of years of having everything being done to excess. They are also basically the cause or everything crap happening to us now lol.

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

WRONG.....the true figure of unvaccinated in ICU is circa 36%...and the majority in hospital due to Covid are actually vaccinated....

The latest data from the Intensive Care National Audit and Research Centre (ICNARC) covers admissions in the months of May, June and July 2021. Page 45 of its report from 3 December shows that about 73% of intensive care unit (ICU) admissions with Covid involved unvaccinated people (2.6% of whom had received one dose of a vaccine less than two weeks before testing positive). About 20% were fully vaccinated.

Quoted from Stadium

The latest data from the Intensive Care National Audit and Research Centre (ICNARC) covers admissions in the months of May, June and July 2021. Page 45 of its report from 3 December shows that about 73% of intensive care unit (ICU) admissions with Covid involved unvaccinated people (2.6% of whom had received one dose of a vaccine less than two weeks before testing positive). About 20% were fully vaccinated.

How dare you produce printed facts as opposed to some individuals suppositions.

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

WRONG.....the true figure of unvaccinated in ICU is circa 36%...and the majority in hospital due to Covid are actually vaccinated....

It's all about the denominator, baby. What proportion of the population in the older age groups who are more likely to require treatment in ICU are vaccinated? Over 90% in the over-80s and not far off that in the over-70s.

That means that an unvaccinated person of a particular age group is many times more likely to be in ICU than their vaccinated peers.

It's always odd when people confidently quote statistics which actually completely refute their own claims.

Quoted from Squinter

75% of people in ICU with covid are unvacinated.  A friend of mines son can not have a vital kidney transplant because there are not enough ICU beds for him or his donar.  Why should innocent vacinated people suffer because of those who refuse to have the jab.

So are you quite happy to force vaccinations onto persons?

Quoted from Stadium

The latest data from the Intensive Care National Audit and Research Centre (ICNARC) covers admissions in the months of May, June and July 2021. Page 45 of its report from 3 December shows that about 73% of intensive care unit (ICU) admissions with Covid involved unvaccinated people (2.6% of whom had received one dose of a vaccine less than two weeks before testing positive). About 20% were fully vaccinated.

Can I just say that I've just received a tweet( after making sure I'd received the correct information) from the former ONS data analyst James Jenkins who's to quote"the figures are taken from old data before the the population was mostly vaccinated"...so don't shoot the messenger, I'm taking my information from him not an independent body like you have...

Will you lot just intercourse off with these posts and grow up .......

Quoted from It Bites

Will you lot just intercourse off with these posts and grow up .......

Are you the moderator on the forum?
If so please direct everybody to the rules around what can and cannot be discussed.
Thanks.

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

Can I just say that I've just received a tweet( after making sure I'd received the correct information) from the former ONS data analyst James Jenkins who's to quote"the figures are taken from old data before the the population was mostly vaccinated"...so don't shoot the messenger, I'm taking my information from him not an independent body like you have...

No problem.

Tbh, the data is a minefield.
It takes time to sieve through it & work out the figures.
Or you can get angry like some and tell people to " grow up"

I recently had Covid, even though I had been double jabbed but prior to the booster, and it was very unpleasant. I am in contact with my niece, who works in epidemiology, and asked her why I had caught Covid even though I was double jabbed. As she explained, the vaccine doesn't give you 100% immunity but in case you do get it then the body has already got the ant-bodies to fight the virus as opposed to it starting from scratch. All I do know is that if my immune system had already got  the anti-bodies to fight Covid then I would have hated to have gone through my recent experience with no protection at all. Admittedly I am in a high risk group being over 70, have had cancer and do have a reduced immune system.
I wonder what all these people who are opposed to the vaccine would do if we had an ebola epidemic and a vaccine was available. Would they still oppose the vaccine and the restrictions?

I am about to start yet another course of chemotheraphy  this time for tumours which have appeared in my lungs. My wife is also at risk due to the immuno suppressant infusions she has every 6 weeks for rheumatoid arthritis. I am 70 my wife is 73 we have done all we can, we are both double jabbed plus boosters, we have continued to wear masks throughout, shop at the crack of dawn to avoid crowds and our youngest granddaughter aged 11 had a positive lateral flow test yesterday so won't be coming this weekend as she awaits her PCR or next to collect her presents etc.

Please can all the anti-vaccination brigade, the won't wear a mask mob and anyone else selfishly minded to ignore any restrictions which may be in force by Christmas (or any time really) or to whine about how inconvenient Covid passports are, just think about others (unlike the fat lying girl private and his sidekicks currently occupying No10)

Thanks

Quoted from Stadium

So are you quite happy to force vaccinations onto persons?

Yes 100%,  but we don't live in North Korea so I doubt it would be possible to implement.     There are many people out there that will take offence to this, but in my humble opinion anybody who refuses to have the vaccine  ( apart from those with a valid medical reason ) should therefore by default be refused hospital care if they then catch covid.    The vaccine has been proven to work and cut the risk of needing hospital care.   The NHS has a massive backlog of people needing operations, some people are in constant daily pain and can not get the operations they need because hospitals can't cope with all the covid cases.  

Quoted from Squinter

Yes 100%,  but we don't live in North Korea so I doubt it would be possible to implement.     There are many people out there that will take offence to this, but in my humble opinion anybody who refuses to have the vaccine  ( apart from those with a valid medical reason ) should therefore by default be refused hospital care if they then catch covid.    The vaccine has been proven to work and cut the risk of needing hospital care.   The NHS has a massive backlog of people needing operations, some people are in constant daily pain and can not get the operations they need because hospitals can't cope with all the covid cases.  

You’re extremely naive if you don’t think they’ll try and force it through…

Quoted from Ipswin

I am about to start yet another course of chemotheraphy  this time for tumours which have appeared in my lungs. My wife is also at risk due to the immuno suppressant infusions she has every 6 weeks for rheumatoid arthritis. I am 70 my wife is 73 we have done all we can, we are both double jabbed plus boosters, we have continued to wear masks throughout, shop at the crack of dawn to avoid crowds and our youngest granddaughter aged 11 had a positive lateral flow test yesterday so won't be coming this weekend as she awaits her PCR or next to collect her presents etc.

Please can all the anti-vaccination brigade, the won't wear a mask mob and anyone else selfishly minded to ignore any restrictions which may be in force by Christmas (or any time really) or to whine about how inconvenient Covid passports are, just think about others (unlike the fat lying girl private and his sidekicks currently occupying No10)

Thanks

I guess if you need a live footy "fix" you could go to Scunny and still avoid crowds  ;)

When can we get back to normal and just worry about being at Blundell Park on a wet cold icy blowy Tuesday night!

I am very sorry to read about the forum members, who have various serious illnesses.  :-/

With regard to the various comments about Covid jabs, according to the NHS there are supposed to be 1 in 10 people who have needle phobia and perhaps many of the unvaccinated are among them.

I am in no way condoning them but I have it too, although I did have my 3 covid jabs, my first in my arm in about 60 years.

I have tried e-mailing various people who could get something done about it, but with little response and my question is, why is it necessary for newspapers and TV news programmes and websites to show bare needle after needle in articles? Most are distorted images of needles shown closer to the camera than the background, making them look bigger and longer than they are; and totally bizarre drawings.

A recent article in the Daily Mail about Dame Kate Bingham, known as the Vaccine Queen, who had played a massive part in getting people vaccinated, was illustrated with a large dripping needle across the 2 pages.  

To illustrate articles encouraging people to have the jabs, they can't wait to show bare needle after needle, even on articles about children being in line, which I find idiotic; as there are many ways of showing vaccination without showing bare needles.

Imagine there was a disease which originated from spiders and the only way to be protected, was to have a spider on your arm, which quickly and painlessly bit you and injected serum into your arm. The press and TV programs then start filling their articles with photos of spiders; and images of big hairy spiders, with big eyes and massive jaws, how many people with spider phobia would be put off?

I can quite happily handle them.  :-/

Quoted from aldi_01

You’re extremely naive if you don’t think they’ll try and force it through…

Governments are too soft now to try and force anything through like that, they are too worried about losing voters for the next election.   I do think they missed a trick with the latest restrictions though,  get rid of this negative lateral flow test nonsense and just have Covid  vaccination pass or nothing.   Many people would then get the vaccine just to get into venues.  

Quoted from Mallyner

I am very sorry to read about the forum members, who have various serious illnesses.  :-/

With regard to the various comments about Covid jabs, according to the NHS there are supposed to be 1 in 10 people who have needle phobia and perhaps many of the unvaccinated are among them.

I am in no way condoning them but I have it too, although I did have my 3 covid jabs, my first in my arm in about 60 years.

I have tried e-mailing various people who could get something done about it, but with little response and my question is, why is it necessary for newspapers and TV news programmes and websites to show bare needle after needle in articles? Most are distorted images of needles shown closer to the camera than the background, making them look bigger and longer than they are; and totally bizarre drawings.

A recent article in the Daily Mail about Dame Kate Bingham, known as the Vaccine Queen, who had played a massive part in getting people vaccinated, was illustrated with a large dripping needle across the 2 pages.  

To illustrate articles encouraging people to have the jabs, they can't wait to show bare needle after needle, even on articles about children being in line, which I find idiotic; as there are many ways of showing vaccination without showing bare needles.

Imagine there was a disease which originated from spiders and the only way to be protected, was to have a spider on your arm, which quickly and painlessly bit you and injected serum into your arm. The press and TV programs then start filling their articles with photos of spiders; and images of big hairy spiders, with big eyes and massive jaws, how many people with spider phobia would be put off?

I can quite happily handle them.  :-/

With a bit of luck, this will be available the end of next year.

https://www.helsinkitimes.fi/business/20061-finnish-covid-19-vaccine-to-be-tested-on-humans-early-next-year.html

Quoted from KingstonMariner

With a bit of luck, this will be available the end of next year.

https://www.helsinkitimes.fi/business/20061-finnish-covid-19-vaccine-to-be-tested-on-humans-early-next-year.html

Sounds great Kingston as does the Australian idea, it's a patch that goes on your arm and is patted, as on another site I saw regarding this, the skin is as good at absorbing the ingredients as the arm muscle.

https://thewest.com.au/news/coronavirus/patches-replace-needles-in-new-vax-tech-c-4880286

Once more though why must both sites show bare needles?  ;)

Quoted from Squinter

Governments are too soft now to try and force anything through like that, they are too worried about losing voters for the next election.   I do think they missed a trick with the latest restrictions though,  get rid of this negative lateral flow test nonsense and just have Covid  vaccination pass or nothing.   Many people would then get the vaccine just to get into venues.  

Never happening given the cash made from LFTs…

A friend of mine runs the ICU in  Leeds LGI and I’ll pass on his message to you which is please get vaccinated and wear a mask. The horrors him and his colleagues see everyday are much worse on the unvaccinated. Please stay safe everyone. UTM!

The statistics quoted are often misleading to try and persuade people to have the jab, which is unhelpful.

But the very obvious statistic is when the hospitalisation and death rates are shown. You're 3 times more likely to be seriously ill without the vaccine.

I suppose if you're 20 then that isn't a huge difference,  but at 80 it's huge. Either way, the vaccine does work and anybody claiming otherwise is as thick as pig excrement.

Quoted from pen penfras

The statistics quoted are often misleading to try and persuade people to have the jab, which is unhelpful.

But the very obvious statistic is when the hospitalisation and death rates are shown. You're 3 times more likely to be seriously ill without the vaccine.

I suppose if you're 20 then that isn't a huge difference,  but at 80 it's huge. Either way, the vaccine does work and anybody claiming otherwise is as thick as pig excrement.

Ok so the vaccine does work, does protect people, its brilliant, that's perfect. I'm 29 have no pre-existing physical health conditions and have had and pretty easily survived covid. I've had a worse cold since. Given all of the above, why should I have 3 vaccinations?

If you've been infected and then get vaccinated, you'll have super duper protection against this (and probably most future) variants. Sounds like another win-win for me. If you manage to avoid catching it, you can't pass it on to somebody.

Quoted from Maringer

If you've been infected and then get vaccinated, you'll have super duper protection against this (and probably most future) variants. Sounds like another win-win for me. If you manage to avoid catching it, you can't pass it on to somebody.

But the ‘protect others’ argument cuts no ice with the selfish. There’s no excuse now. There’s plenty of good information from reliable sources and they are still reluctant to do it.

It’s not often I agree with the corbynites on here but when it comes to omnicron I don’t think we can take any chances. Entry to BP should be a full vaccine passport, a PCR test 48 hours before kick off with Mask wearing also mandatory except when we get a corner so we can sing a short rendition of “mariners”
Hopefully, that’s enough to keep us safe and allow the national league to continue. UTM

Quoted from RobDef1

Ok so the vaccine does work, does protect people, its brilliant, that's perfect. I'm 29 have no pre-existing physical health conditions and have had and pretty easily survived covid. I've had a worse cold since. Given all of the above, why should I have 3 vaccinations?

That's the choice, isn't it? If people choose not to take it for that reason, then that's at least a reason that makes sense. Almost everybody who hasn't had it that I talk to says it doesn't work.

Considering cases are up in countries that do have vaccine passports I’m not sure I see the point in bringing them in. I’ve been double vaccinated but the sheer lack of choice people are beginning to have doesn’t sit right with me and stinks of something deeper.

As for this variant, it’s so far factually correct (according to numerous sources) that not one person has died from it so far, yet our government are already setting out ‘plan c’.

Not sure who the French will blame now…it’s been all the fault of the unvaccinated so far…

Quoted from aldi_01

Not sure who the French will blame now…it’s been all the fault of the unvaccinated so far…

Yes but the figures are completely clear that the vaccines work.
On 12th Jan this year we had 60,000 positive cases with 1200 deaths.
Yesterday we had the same number of positive cases but 120 deaths.  
So with a completely simplistic view the vaccine is cutting deaths by 90%.

Quoted from pontoonlew

Considering cases are up in countries that do have vaccine passports I’m not sure I see the point in bringing them in. I’ve been double vaccinated but the sheer lack of choice people are beginning to have doesn’t sit right with me and stinks of something deeper.

As for this variant, it’s so far factually correct (according to numerous sources) that not one person has died from it so far, yet our government are already setting out ‘plan c’.

If we do go into a lockdown I like to see how the government expect people to follow it when they have repeatedly broke lockdown laws, and not only that when restrictions were eased they kept saying they was irreversible, yes i know things change but combine that with "party gate" then compliance with a new lockdown is going to be very limited likewise I don't think people will appreciate being forced to spend a christmas by themsleves and not with family again especially with what happened in Downing St

Quoted from RobDef1

Ok so the vaccine does work, does protect people, its brilliant, that's perfect. I'm 29 have no pre-existing physical health conditions and have had and pretty easily survived covid. I've had a worse cold since. Given all of the above, why should I have 3 vaccinations?

That's a perfectly acceptable view on the matter.

Quoted from Stadium

Quoted from RobDef1


Ok so the vaccine does work, does protect people, its brilliant, that's perfect. I'm 29 have no pre-existing physical health conditions and have had and pretty easily survived covid. I've had a worse cold since. Given all of the above, why should I have 3 vaccinations?

That's a perfectly acceptable view on the matter.

It's a sh-ite reason not to get vaccinated. If you catch it you can pass it on.

I call that selfish. Immature even. Just thinking about himself.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

It's a sh-ite reason not to get vaccinated. If you catch it you can pass it on.

I call that selfish. Immature even. Just thinking about himself.

But that's his choice if he dosent want it, and you can pass it on if your vaccinated or not.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

It's a sh-ite reason not to get vaccinated. If you catch it you can pass it on.

I call that selfish. Immature even. Just thinking about himself.

The vaccine protects from serious illness & has dubious data around transmission.
Even Dr Google from elsewhere on this forum says "Double vaccination with AZ offers basically zero protection against infection"
Your argument is flawed so not "immature" at all.

Doctor Google? I assume you mean me. Might as well call me Doctor twitter as it's the posts from health professionals on there where I get most of the information I post. That particular tidbit was posted by a representative of the UKHSA, incidentally. Perhaps you should have said that the  is what the UKHSA think rather than 'Doctor Google'?

Quoted from Maringer

Doctor Google? I assume you mean me. Might as well call me Doctor twitter as it's the posts from health professionals on there where I get most of the information I post. That particular tidbit was posted by a representative of the UKHSA, incidentally. Perhaps you should have said that the  is what the UKHSA think rather than 'Doctor Google'?

Sorry for any offence caused Doc. (Other search engines are available)
Point stands though.
What's your view on the posters reasoning ?

Ok so the vaccine does work, does protect people, its brilliant, that's perfect. I'm 29 have no pre-existing physical health conditions and have had and pretty easily survived covid. I've had a worse cold since. Given all of the above, why should I have 3 vaccinations?

Try reading the thread you're commenting in. I responded on the last page.

https://forum.thefishy.co.uk/Blah.pl?m-1638989873/s-70/#num74

Also, not to be a male private.

Quoted from Maringer

Try reading the thread you're commenting in. I responded on the last page.

https://forum.thefishy.co.uk/Blah.pl?m-1638989873/s-70/#num74

Also, not to be a male private.

Apologies for not picking your response but there's no need to be abusive Doc.

If you've been infected and then get vaccinated, you'll have super duper protection against this (and probably most future) variants. Sounds like another win-win for me. If you manage to avoid catching it, you can't pass it on to somebody.

Once again why would the poster feel the need to?
He has contracted the virus & has natural immunity.
Do you have evidence that having vaccinations after contracting the virus & recovering provides "super-duper"  protection? (is that even a medical term?)
"probably most future variants"??
Frankly that is ridiculous.

Quoted from Stadium

Apologies for not picking your response but there's no need to be abusive Doc.

If you've been infected and then get vaccinated, you'll have super duper protection against this (and probably most future) variants. Sounds like another win-win for me. If you manage to avoid catching it, you can't pass it on to somebody.

Once again why would the poster feel the need to?
He has contracted the virus & has natural immunity.
Do you have evidence that having vaccinations after contracting the virus & recovering provides "super-duper"  protection? (is that even a medical term?)
"probably most future variants"??
Frankly that is ridiculous.

In fairness what's been stated by the experts is this...
If you've had all 3 jabs and a previous infection you have the best protection against future variants. Whether that pans out as correct is yet to be seen though

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

In fairness what's been stated by the experts is this...
If you've had all 3 jabs and a previous infection you have the best protection against future variants. Whether that pans out as correct is yet to be seen though

It's a fair point.
However the poster is 29 years of age and recovered from the infection.
Why on earth would he require vaccination when theres no evidence that'll it will any effect any future variants?
Or is it an option he should be mandated to?

Quoted from Stadium

It's a fair point.
However the poster is 29 years of age and recovered from the infection.
Why on earth would he require vaccination when theres no evidence that'll it will any effect any future variants?
Or is it an option he should be mandated to?

Absolutely not, I'm a firm believer in its your body, your choice and at his age his chances of mortality are next to zero.

Appreciate recent posts looking at what I've said with a degree of respect. Thankyou. To others that call me immature, perhaps that is the case, congratulations on your maturity.

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

Absolutely not, I'm a firm believer in its your body, your choice and at his age his chances of mortality are next to zero.

Fully agree NBM.
Unfortunately some are obsessed with trumpeting vaccination with no regards to a persons opinion or rational.

Quoted from zorro_is_a_Mariner

But that's his choice if he dosent want it, and you can pass it on if your vaccinated or not.

There’s some thick people about. You cannot pass it on if you don’t catch it and you are less likely to catch it if you are vaccinated.

Why is that so difficult to understand?

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

Absolutely not, I'm a firm believer in its your body, your choice and at his age his chances of mortality are next to zero.

He’s not the only person on the planet though is he. You get vaccinated partly to protect yourself and partly to protect others. Herd immunity.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

There’s some thick people about. You cannot pass it on if you don’t catch it and you are less likely to catch it if you are vaccinated.

Why is that so difficult to understand?

I have to disagree with that, vaccinated you are just as likely to catch it but less like to suffer any ill effects from the virus

Quoted from KingstonMariner

There’s some thick people about. You cannot pass it on if you don’t catch it and you are less likely to catch it if you are vaccinated.

Why is that so difficult to understand?

"Double vaccination with AZ offers basically zero protection against infection"

Quoted from RobDef1

Appreciate recent posts looking at what I've said with a degree of respect. Thankyou. To others that call me immature, perhaps that is the case, congratulations on your maturity.

At 29 you really ought to be able to understand these things .

Quoted from KingstonMariner

He’s not the only person on the planet though is he. You get vaccinated partly to protect yourself and partly to protect others. Herd immunity.

??

Vaccination provides the individual from developing serious illness.
Any other value is purely speculative.

Quoted from Stadium

Apologies for not picking your response but there's no need to be abusive Doc.

If you've been infected and then get vaccinated, you'll have super duper protection against this (and probably most future) variants. Sounds like another win-win for me. If you manage to avoid catching it, you can't pass it on to somebody.

Once again why would the poster feel the need to?
He has contracted the virus & has natural immunity.
Do you have evidence that having vaccinations after contracting the virus & recovering provides "super-duper"  protection? (is that even a medical term?)
"probably most future variants"??
Frankly that is ridiculous.

Stop being childish.

Look at figure H from this image:

[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FGHZOwMXoAURYix?format=jpg&name=large[/img]

That's from one of the early serological studies against Omicron.

Best response would seem to be for those with a combination of vaccination and infection. Hence the pithy 'Super Immune' tag.

From what we know of other coronaviruses, immunity seems to be cumulative - as the virus mutates, you become infected and develop immunity to the new strains. Your past immune response is improved each time. The difference, of course, is that the other coronaviruses have been with us for hundreds of years, not less than two. Anybody with particular vulnerability to those viruses have has their genes selected out of existence. Hopefully, it will be possible to avoid this happening with this new particular coronavirus.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

At 29 you really ought to be able to understand these things .

I've explained my reasoning and as of yet have only had that challenged by yourself, with insults. At whatever your age is you really should be able to understand  how to have a discussion with someone in a respectful manner.

I will continue to follow restrictions, I will continue to distance from people where necessary, I just don't feel like the vaccination is necessary for someone with zero underlying physical health conditions.. and believe me (or don't) I'm really trying to keep anecdotal argument out of this as I have no way of proving to you on a forum of the many other reasons I have seen for not having the rushed, money spinning 'vaccine'.

More to the point, I won't be judging you or anyone else on their decision to have the vaccine, no matter what my opinion is.

Quoted from Maringer

Stop being childish.

Look at figure H from this image:

[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FGHZOwMXoAURYix?format=jpg&name=large[/img]

That's from one of the early serological studies against Omicron.

Best response would seem to be for those with a combination of vaccination and infection. Hence the pithy 'Super Immune' tag.

From what we know of other coronaviruses, immunity seems to be cumulative - as the virus mutates, you become infected and develop immunity to the new strains. Your past immune response is improved each time. The difference, of course, is that the other coronaviruses have been with us for hundreds of years, not less than two. Anybody with particular vulnerability to those viruses have has their genes selected out of existence. Hopefully, it will be possible to avoid this happening with this new particular coronavirus.

Once again there is no need to insult persons in this discussion.
Does this actually relate to transmission Doc?
To summarise ,the poster has contracted the virus, recovered & wishes not to take any vaccination.
Respect his wishes.

I presume you wish to mandate vaccination as you have previously championed Covid passports too.

Best response would seem to be for those with a combination of vaccination and infection. Hence the pithy 'Super Immune' tag.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

There’s some thick people about. You cannot pass it on if you don’t catch it and you are less likely to catch it if you are vaccinated.

Why is that so difficult to understand?

At the end of the day its your body your choice, you don't take the vaccine for anyone but yourself.
If someone dosent want the vaccine fair enough but if someone does then go for it, I don't care or judge either way, to be honest it's none of my buisness if someone wants the vaccine or not. If your older and vunerable then it's probably best you get it, if your younger and fit and healthy not having any underlying health issues then I suppose its personal choice but I wouldnt call someone thick or start being aggressive because they don't agree with you
.

Quoted from Stadium

Once again there is no need to insult persons in this discussion.
Does this actually relate to transmission Doc?
To summarise ,the poster has contracted the virus, recovered & wishes not to take any vaccination.
Respect his wishes.

I presume you wish to mandate vaccination as you have previously championed Covid passports too.

Best response would seem to be for those with a combination of vaccination and infection. Hence the pithy 'Super Immune' tag.

Still only one person in this conversation being childish, kiddo.

As you'll surely have noticed, I mentioned earlier in this thread (you have read it, haven't you?), that I don't think there is much point in passports at present as Omicron is so infectious and there simply isn't going to be the opportunity for many to become fully vaccinated (i.e. 3 jabs) for several months. I suspect we'll be in lockdown before too long so the argument is probably moot. Whether or not a vaccine passport requirement will brought in some time next year, I couldn't say.

If the poster doesn't want any further protection against this novel coronavirus (which doesn't cost anything other than an hour or so out of your schedule one day), then that's up to him. If the government subsequently decides it is a requirement to be able to get into certain venues, then it's his choice whether he wants to change his mind.

Zero evidence that vaccine passports have reduced cases or transmission in any country currently using them , i'm totally against medical aparthaid in any way shape or form , if a person wants the vaccine or not is upto the individual , i'm fully vaccinated & i'm not afraid to be in the company of an unvaxxed person after all these vaccines either work or they dont , i will not participate in any of this global tyranny if it stops me doing things i enjoy so be it but it's not a world or country i want my grandchildren to witness

Quoted from Maringer

Still only one person in this conversation being childish, kiddo.

As you'll surely have noticed, I mentioned earlier in this thread (you have read it, haven't you?), that I don't think there is much point in passports at present as Omicron is so infectious and there simply isn't going to be the opportunity for many to become fully vaccinated (i.e. 3 jabs) for several months. I suspect we'll be in lockdown before too long so the argument is probably moot. Whether or not a vaccine passport requirement will brought in some time next year, I couldn't say.

If the poster doesn't want any further protection against this novel coronavirus (which doesn't cost anything other than an hour or so out of your schedule one day), then that's up to him. If the government subsequently decides it is a requirement to be able to get into certain venues, then it's his choice whether he wants to change his mind.

Got there in the end,shame you resort to calling people " childish"
It's an individuals choice
As you stated theres evidence having two AZ vaccinations has no effect on transmission & he wouldn't be eligible for a booster anyway.

Who are they blaming in France now?

Quoted from KingstonMariner

He’s not the only person on the planet though is he. You get vaccinated partly to protect yourself and partly to protect others. Herd immunity.

Isn't vaccination the opposite of herd immunity?

Quoted from Maringer

Stop being childish.

Look at figure H from this image:

[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FGHZOwMXoAURYix?format=jpg&name=large[/img]

That's from one of the early serological studies against Omicron.

Best response would seem to be for those with a combination of vaccination and infection. Hence the pithy 'Super Immune' tag.

From what we know of other coronaviruses, immunity seems to be cumulative - as the virus mutates, you become infected and develop immunity to the new strains. Your past immune response is improved each time. The difference, of course, is that the other coronaviruses have been with us for hundreds of years, not less than two. Anybody with particular vulnerability to those viruses have has their genes selected out of existence. Hopefully, it will be possible to avoid this happening with this new particular coronavirus.

Interesting to see some proper evidence, but in the graphs neither axis is labelled, nor is there a key to the colour code. Without these they are impossible to interpret.

Quoted from joe56

Interesting to see some proper evidence, but in the graphs neither axis is labelled, nor is there a key to the colour code. Without these they are impossible to interpret.

This isn’t a dog at our fellow mariner but the cynic would say there’s possibly a reason for that…

Quoted from aldi_01

This isn’t a dog at our fellow mariner but the cynic would say there’s possibly a reason for that…

😉

Quoted from joe56

Interesting to see some proper evidence, but in the graphs neither axis is labelled, nor is there a key to the colour code. Without these they are impossible to interpret.

Eh? I mentioned it was one of the first studies looking at neutralisation of the Omicron variant. IC50 is explained here as you could have easily found with a quick search:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IC50

The variants the neutralisation tests were carried out against are shown on the bottom. Each graph shows the vaccine combination (or infection/vaccine status in the case of chart H). The points on the lines show how effective antibodies from various samples (from different people) proved to be. The colours don't do anything but show the variant tested as shown on the x-axis.

Pretty obvious from the various charts that neutralisation of Omicron drops to nothing from AZ but remains very good for those with a combination of vaccination and prior infection. The Moderna numbers are a surprise though. Might be something to do with the age groups.

Dig noted, aldi01.

Also noted that the Covid doubters are trying to distract from the data with personal digs.

Quoted from Maringer

Eh? I mentioned it was one of the first studies looking at neutralisation of the Omicron variant. IC50 is explained here as you could have easily found with a quick search:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IC50

The variants the neutralisation tests were carried out against are shown on the bottom. Each graph shows the vaccine combination (or infection/vaccine status in the case of chart H). The points on the lines show how effective antibodies from various samples (from different people) proved to be. The colours don't do anything but show the variant tested as shown on the x-axis.

Pretty obvious from the various charts that neutralisation of Omicron drops to nothing from AZ but remains very good for those with a combination of vaccination and prior infection. The Moderna numbers are a surprise though. Might be something to do with the age groups.

Dig noted, aldi01.

Also noted that the Covid doubters are trying to distract from the data with personal digs.

I just feel that it would have been helpful to have had the variables and values clearly defined at the outset. It shouldn’t be necessary for us to start searching the literature to find out for ourselves. Thank you for explaining IC50 and the B values for the independent variable. I just wish that this had been done in your original post. The danger is that we make intuitive guesses, and get it wrong. Anyway, as I said, it’s good to see someone back up their argument with real evidence, and, for what it’s worth, I think it’s hard to argue with the case you’ve made.

I assumed people would recognise the B codes from earlier in the year, but then I have read a lot more about this stuff than most. The other thing I should have pointed out from the chart is that Omicron (B.1.1.529) is so infectious that, if you've had Covid in the past, whether the original virus last year, Alpha, or Delta, you've got pretty much no protection against reinfection (charts E to G). Probably still have reasonably good protection against serious illness, but get yourself vaccinated as well and you'll have the best protection you can get.

Also, the fact that the government has just announced it plans to basically shut down half of the stuff the NHS usually does until the end of the month to try and get the boosters rolled out to adults as quickly as possible is probably a pretty good indication that the crap is about to hit the fan. The fact that they haven't announced any other measures to try and slow the spread shows how utterly disjointed their approach has become. It is estimated that prevalence of Omicron was around 30% in London last Wednesday (i.e. 30% of Covid cases will have been Omicron). The absolute number is likely to have more than quadrupled since, possibly more if super-spreading events in bars and clubs have occurred (which they surely have). Omicron likely to be the dominant strain in London right now, so cases will rocket by next weekend.

What numbers are currently available?
The Yellow Card reporting scheme has reported that between 9 December 2020 and 8 September 2021 there were 1,645 deaths where the person died shortly after receiving one of the coronavirus vaccines. This is the number of deaths reported as possibly linked to a vaccine, however they will not have been fully investigated at the time of reporting and a report is not proof of causation. So, the numbers are likely to be a big overestimate. The MHRA follow up all such reports and use other sources of evidence such as the numbers of individuals who would be expected to experience different events irrespective of vaccination.

In contrast, the different statistical agencies have reported that to August 2021 (June 2021 in Northern Ireland) there were 4 deaths in England, 0 deaths in Wales, 4 deaths in Scotland and 1 in Northern Ireland. Of these, 4 in Scotland and 1 in Northern Ireland had the vaccine as the underlying cause of death. This meant that there were 9 deaths in the UK that involved the vaccine (meaning the vaccine contributed to the death), of which 5 had the vaccine as the underlying cause (meaning the vaccine initiated the chain of events directly leading to the death). For these deaths, there was evidence to suggest that the vaccine played a part in the chain of events that led to the death.

Source: https://blog.ons.gov.uk/2021/10/04/how-many-people-have-died-as-a-result-of-a-covid-19-vaccine/

As a relatively healthy 29 year old I'd like the opportunity to live 'freely and normally', as the government have put it, without being forced to into taking up this vaccine. I don't think that is unreasonable, given the stats.

Quoted from RobDef1

What numbers are currently available?
The Yellow Card reporting scheme has reported that between 9 December 2020 and 8 September 2021 there were 1,645 deaths where the person died shortly after receiving one of the coronavirus vaccines. This is the number of deaths reported as possibly linked to a vaccine, however they will not have been fully investigated at the time of reporting and a report is not proof of causation. So, the numbers are likely to be a big overestimate. The MHRA follow up all such reports and use other sources of evidence such as the numbers of individuals who would be expected to experience different events irrespective of vaccination.

In contrast, the different statistical agencies have reported that to August 2021 (June 2021 in Northern Ireland) there were 4 deaths in England, 0 deaths in Wales, 4 deaths in Scotland and 1 in Northern Ireland. Of these, 4 in Scotland and 1 in Northern Ireland had the vaccine as the underlying cause of death. This meant that there were 9 deaths in the UK that involved the vaccine (meaning the vaccine contributed to the death), of which 5 had the vaccine as the underlying cause (meaning the vaccine initiated the chain of events directly leading to the death). For these deaths, there was evidence to suggest that the vaccine played a part in the chain of events that led to the death.


Source: https://blog.ons.gov.uk/2021/10/04/how-many-people-have-died-as-a-result-of-a-covid-19-vaccine/

As a relatively healthy 29 year old I'd like the opportunity to live 'freely and normally', as the government have put it, without being forced to into taking up this vaccine. I don't think that is unreasonable, given the stats.

Also worth considering that 'Covid deaths' are relatable to the top figure in that report rather than the second (arguably more accurate) figure. On the other hand, the figures above are in relation to deaths, not including other severe side effects.

If you don't want to be vaccinated, you'll get Omicron in due course. Or perhaps Delta, if the two end up co-existing side by side, which is a possibility, apparently. Initial data from South Africa (which had 3 big waves as well and much lower vaccination) show that prior infection with earlier variants offers very little protection against Omicron once you're a few months past infection. You'll probably retain pretty good protection against serious illness (in comparison to unvaccinated folk) due to the prior infection, however. I just don't really understand why you wouldn't want to improve your protection? Even a single dose of a vaccine would improve the breadth of your body's immune response so you're better fit to deal with future variants. Not certain yet, but it's assumed that those vaccinated are less likely to develop Long Covid symptoms. Not a lot known about what triggers this in some people, however, so perhaps not. I'd imagine the data will show it one way or the other in due course.

The Yellow Card report thing has been done to death elsewhere. Anyone can make a Yellow Card report (you don't even need to be a medical professional) and 99.9% of the reports on there will have nothing to do with the vaccination programme. Literally billions of doses of the mRNA vaccines have been given around the world and the data shows that they are extremely safe.

For the heart complications which are an incredibly rare side-effect of the vaccines, the risk of developing similar problems after Covid infection is many times higher, so if you want to take your chances in that regard, fair enough.

Ultimately, the government has passed a law requiring Covid passports for certain events. If you don't want to get vaccinated, then you can't go to them. It's your right to be unhappy with this, but I think you'll find that most people agree with the government stance so you'll struggle to find a political party to back which would overturn the rules. Wouldn't surprise me to see the passports becoming a very short-term measure, however.

Quoted from Maringer

If you don't want to be vaccinated, you'll get Omicron in due course. Or perhaps Delta, if the two end up co-existing side by side, which is a possibility, apparently. Initial data from South Africa (which had 3 big waves as well and much lower vaccination) show that prior infection with earlier variants offers very little protection against Omicron once you're a few months past infection. You'll probably retain pretty good protection against serious illness (in comparison to unvaccinated folk) due to the prior infection, however. I just don't really understand why you wouldn't want to improve your protection? Even a single dose of a vaccine would improve the breadth of your body's immune response so you're better fit to deal with future variants. Not certain yet, but it's assumed that those vaccinated are less likely to develop Long Covid symptoms. Not a lot known about what triggers this in some people, however, so perhaps not. I'd imagine the data will show it one way or the other in due course.

The Yellow Card report thing has been done to death elsewhere. Anyone can make a Yellow Card report (you don't even need to be a medical professional) and 99.9% of the reports on there will have nothing to do with the vaccination programme. Literally billions of doses of the mRNA vaccines have been given around the world and the data shows that they are extremely safe.

For the heart complications which are an incredibly rare side-effect of the vaccines, the risk of developing similar problems after Covid infection is many times higher, so if you want to take your chances in that regard, fair enough.

Ultimately, the government has passed a law requiring Covid passports for certain events. If you don't want to get vaccinated, then you can't go to them. It's your right to be unhappy with this, but I think you'll find that most people agree with the government stance so you'll struggle to find a political party to back which would overturn the rules. Wouldn't surprise me to see the passports becoming a very short-term measure, however.

Is that the same South Africa who's medical professionals and scientists are absolutely perplexed by our over-reaction to omicron? A strain of Covid that they're calling 'a god-send'? As for why I wouldn't want to 'improve my protection', well I'm weighing that up against the risk of the vaccine itself, as seen above. Add that to the pressure the government are putting on people to take it, and deep scepticism is aroused. As said before, I've had Covid, and didn't really suffer with it, certainly not enough to prompt me to take a vaccine that itself comes with risks.

And lets not downplay the seriousness of not being allowed to certain events if not vaccinated, where do we draw that line? 12 months ago where we are now was unthinkable. Freedoms are being taken away from us as a result of personal bodily autonomy. If that doesn't worry people then what will? Other than what the benevolent government tell you to worry about.

Not sure someone on a forum can say you’ll get some new variant if you’re not vaccinated?

It is interesting to see the responses from those in South Africa to our clear over reaction…

I see both Carlisle and Lincoln have amended their capacities.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59668147

Quoted from Les Brechin

I see both Carlisle and Lincoln have amended their capacities.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59668147

What’s the craic with Halifax (assuming we make it that far)? Official capacity of just over 10,000 is it not?

had 3 jabs, had covid

respect those that dont have the vaccine, but bemused by their decision

Quoted from Poojah

What’s the craic with Halifax (assuming we make it that far)? Official capacity of just over 10,000 is it not?

With it being an all-ticket game they'll have a good idea what the attendance will be and it's never going to be over 10,000 is it, so it'll be okay.

Basically won’t ever really affect us unless Notts county fill their ground when we go there or indeed if we reach Wembley…

Quoted from aldi_01

Not sure someone on a forum can say you’ll get some new variant if you’re not vaccinated?

It is interesting to see the responses from those in South Africa to our clear over reaction…

Interesting claim on a day when the highest number of cases recorded (from the January wave) has been smashed by 15%.

Edit:  Also, note the 78k number of infections reported today are mostly *new* infections. They don't count reinfection in these numbers and, of course, we know that Omicron easily reinfects many of those who have previously been infected with an earlier variant.

UKHSA think we're in the crapper:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/15/omicron-probably-the-biggest-threat-of-covid-pandemic-says-health-chief

Rather begs the question why we don't have anything more than plan B which isn't going to do a great deal.

Reports out of South Africa are that it is milder, but take this in the context of very different demographics with a much, much younger population, much higher levels of past infections and lower vaccine rollout. Also, initial data out of Denmark indicates it is about the same as Delta for hospitalisations and so forth. I can only hope the South African reports are more accurate because, if not, we're utterly screwed. It's not going to be just the numbers hospitalised - it will be the numbers of people hospitalised over a very short period. Let's hope the boosters can do enough to keep it in check.

I do find the fact that so many are blase about this astounding. It simply doesn't make sense.

Quoted from Maringer

Interesting claim on a day when the highest number of cases recorded (from the January wave) has been smashed by 15%.

Just for balance how many tests?

More to the point how many hospitalised?

I find it very revealing that a number of posters seem against using a vaccine against a pandemic that has killed hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people throughout the world. They seem to trawl the Press and Internet to produce any snippet of data or statistic that supports their stance while totally ignoring the fact that Covid kills (either directly or more likely indirectly) , affects some people for a long time (Long Covid) and constantly mutates to form variants that could be either more deadly or contagious.

Quoted from rancido

I find it very revealing that a number of posters seem against using a vaccine against a pandemic that has killed hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people throughout the world. They seem to trawl the Press and Internet to produce any snippet of data or statistic that supports their stance while totally ignoring the fact that Covid kills (either directly or more likely indirectly) , affects some people for a long time (Long Covid) and constantly mutates to form variants that could be either more deadly or contagious.

Or mutates to a variant that is less deadly and less dangerous, as seen with omicron. The thing about trawling data, is that it stacks up a lot better against emotive posts like yours that are full of speculation and fear mongering, yet lacking in data. Strange that.

And my point isn't against 'using' a vaccine. My point is firmly against 'forcing' a vaccine on people who want to live normally and freely. As said many many times on this thread, the vaccine seems effective for those at risk in reducing their symptoms and giving them a fighting chance against covid. However, as a relatively healthy 29 year old at extremely low risk of dying of covid the vaccine is not only pretty pointless it becomes foolish when it has its own string of risks attached to it, as shown in the data above.

Millions of people choose to have the flu jab every year, brilliant, all for it. But millions of people also choose not to, they aren't then forced to live a substandard life because of that choice nor are they asked to explain themselves against a mounting face of prejudice and intolerance.

Quoted from Humbercod

Just for balance how many tests?

More to the point how many hospitalised?

on the latter point don't think we will see the effect on hospitals for another couple of weeks - there's obviously a time lag between someone catching Covid and requiring hospital treatment and a further time lag between that stage and a percentage of those dying

Quoted from RobDef1

Or mutates to a variant that is less deadly and less dangerous, as seen with omicron. The thing about trawling data, is that it stacks up a lot better against emotive posts like yours that are full of speculation and fear mongering, yet lacking in data. Strange that.

And my point isn't against 'using' a vaccine. My point is firmly against 'forcing' a vaccine on people who want to live normally and freely. As said many many times on this thread, the vaccine seems effective for those at risk in reducing their symptoms and giving them a fighting chance against covid. However, as a relatively healthy 29 year old at extremely low risk of dying of covid the vaccine is not only pretty pointless it becomes foolish when it has its own string of risks attached to it, as shown in the data above.

Millions of people choose to have the flu jab every year, brilliant, all for it. But millions of people also choose not to, they aren't then forced to live a substandard life because of that choice nor are they asked to explain themselves against a mounting face of prejudice and intolerance.

So stating that hundreds of thousands of people throughout the World have died of Covid is "scaremongering". You state you are a healthy 29 year old with an "extremely low risk" of dying of Covid - well good for you. I am an "at risk" 73 year old who has had Covid and I would have hated to have gone through that experience unvaccinated. Yours is typical of the "I'm all right Jack, stuff the rest" attitude of a section of society who don't care about the ramifications that their actions can lead to. With your attitude why bother at all with vaccines of any kind? But then you are too young to have known the horrendous effects of polio, TB, Diphtheria, Smallpox - all diseases that blighted the human race until effective vaccines were introduced.

Quoted from rancido

So stating that hundreds of thousands of people throughout the World have died of Covid is "scaremongering". You state you are a healthy 29 year old with an "extremely low risk" of dying of Covid - well good for you. I am an "at risk" 73 year old who has had Covid and I would have hated to have gone through that experience unvaccinated. Yours is typical of the "I'm all right Jack, stuff the rest" attitude of a section of society who don't care about the ramifications that their actions can lead to. With your attitude why bother at all with vaccines of any kind? But then you are too young to have known the horrendous effects of polio, TB, Diphtheria, Smallpox - all diseases that blighted the human race until effective vaccines were introduced.

Except I'm not saying 'stuff the rest' am I? I'm saying if you're at risk, either by means of data or personal opinion, then get the vaccine, it can protect you. But don't force it upon me when it can put me at risk.

Getting back to football rather then Covid politics it is clear that football is going to have major disruption from Covid shortly ranging from Covid in players and club staff to future charges on rules on attendance.This will have a knock on effect on things like player recruitment policy in January ,outgoings etc. The fact that our season has already imploded on the pitch may make this slightly less disappointing for us then for those who are currently flying

In what way does the vaccine put you at risk?

Not supportive of VPs myself but the inclusion of negative LFTs as a means of holding one means no-one is forced to have the vaccine. I can’t understand this argument at all. Whether there’ll be enough LFTs to go around or whether people will actually do one properly in order to gain a true negative result is another matter.

Quoted from chaos33

In what way does the vaccine put you at risk?

In the way that up to September 8th, there had been 1645 deaths linked to it. And a whole host other complications that have come with it. Reduced heart function, risk of stroke, etc. I literally posted the ONS with a link to the government website a couple of pages back. The medication I am prescribed already heightens that risk of heart problems, but I take that medication because without it I would be at serious risk of suicide (death) and a genuine immediate risk to those around me, unlike with the vaccine.

Quoted from RobDef1

In the way that up to September 8th, there had been 1645 deaths linked to it. And a whole host other complications that have come with it. Reduced heart function, risk of stroke, etc. I literally posted the ONS with a link to the government website a couple of pages back. The medication I am prescribed already heightens that risk of heart problems, but I take that medication because without it I would be at serious risk of suicide (death) and a genuine immediate risk to those around me, unlike with the vaccine.

My point being that I don't think I'm 'above medical intervention'. I am capable of making a choice to be medicated based on a. the risks of that medication vs b. the risks of not having that medication. Bipolar disorder will kill me, especially untreated. Covid? Very unlikely.

Quoted from rancido

So stating that hundreds of thousands of people throughout the World have died of Covid is "scaremongering". You state you are a healthy 29 year old with an "extremely low risk" of dying of Covid - well good for you. I am an "at risk" 73 year old who has had Covid and I would have hated to have gone through that experience unvaccinated. Yours is typical of the "I'm all right Jack, stuff the rest" attitude of a section of society who don't care about the ramifications that their actions can lead to. With your attitude why bother at all with vaccines of any kind? But then you are too young to have known the horrendous effects of polio, TB, Diphtheria, Smallpox - all diseases that blighted the human race until effective vaccines were introduced.

Please check the mortality rates of those diseases  against that of covid. More to the point, you are basically saying that because you had to have the vaccine because you're at risk then so should everyone else. So who's really in the 'stuff the rest' category? You have no respect for my reasons, medical and otherwise, to not want the vaccine I doubt you'd even give them a second thought. Also, I can pick up a history book. This is exactly the prejudice I'm talking about, a prejudice that isn't extended to any other medical choice, because the government don't tell you to do that.

Quoted from RobDef1

Please check the mortality rates of those diseases  against that of covid. More to the point, you are basically saying that because you had to have the vaccine because you're at risk then so should everyone else. So who's really in the 'stuff the rest' category? You have no respect for my reasons, medical and otherwise, to not want the vaccine I doubt you'd even give them a second thought. Also, I can pick up a history book. This is exactly the prejudice I'm talking about, a prejudice that isn't extended to any other medical choice, because the government don't tell you to do that.

I never said I had to have the vaccine, merely that my experience of Covid post vaccine was such that I dread to think how I would have fared without the vaccine. As for you being bipolar and the choices you make because of that, my eldest daughter is also bipolar so I know about the problems associated with that condition. I do not endorse compulsory vaccinations but knowing what I do about past diseases that have been virtually eradicated because of the vaccination programmes then I believe there are more benefits than probkems.

Quoted from rancido

I never said I had to have the vaccine, merely that my experience of Covid post vaccine was such that I dread to think how I would have fared without the vaccine. As for you being bipolar and the choices you make because of that, my eldest daughter is also bipolar so I know about the problems associated with that condition. I do not endorse compulsory vaccinations but knowing what I do about past diseases that have been virtually eradicated because of the vaccination programmes then I believe there are more benefits than probkems.

Ok so with an understanding of Bipolar, you'll hopefully understand that my life depends on the medication, simple as that. So with that in mind, do you understand why I would rather steer clear of a vaccination that could cause me to have to drop that medication? Especially when that vaccine is for a virus that I've already had without complications and is unlikely to cause me any complications in the future?

I hope that makes it a bit clearer, it is certainly a clear and agreeable choice where my mental health team (medical professionals) are concerned.

Now why should I live a substandard life because I chose not to have said vaccine?

Quoted from RobDef1

Ok so with an understanding of Bipolar, you'll hopefully understand that my life depends on the medication, simple as that. So with that in mind, do you understand why I would rather steer clear of a vaccination that could cause me to have to drop that medication? Especially when that vaccine is for a virus that I've already had without complications and is unlikely to cause me any complications in the future?

I hope that makes it a bit clearer, it is certainly a clear and agreeable choice where my mental health team (medical professionals) are concerned.

Now why should I live a substandard life because I chose not to have said vaccine?

And this is my personal case, but not very far fetched. The vaccine is a genuine risk (fatal risk, in the case of 1645 people and their families) to many people for many reasons, reasons that are none of our business. Forcing them upon anybody is wrong.

Quoted from RobDef1

Now why should I live a substandard life because I chose not to have said vaccine?

You don’t have to if you produce a negative LFT. Or are you just wanting to be difficult?

Quoted from RobDef1

Ok so with an understanding of Bipolar, you'll hopefully understand that my life depends on the medication, simple as that. So with that in mind, do you understand why I would rather steer clear of a vaccination that could cause me to have to drop that medication? Especially when that vaccine is for a virus that I've already had without complications and is unlikely to cause me any complications in the future?

I hope that makes it a bit clearer, it is certainly a clear and agreeable choice where my mental health team (medical professionals) are concerned.

Now why should I live a substandard life because I chose not to have said vaccine?

I know the choices and risks bipolar causes because of my daughter and she decided the vaccine was still her best option.

Quoted from LH

You don’t have to if you produce a negative LFT. Or are you just wanting to be difficult?

That's fair enough, sounds easy right? Because LFT's are always available and this government aren't famous for moving the goalposts are they?

Vaccine passports don't even work, look at France, they haven't worked, now they're moving the goalposts on them. Who is being difficult?

The reality of "covid passports"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10314135/Sports-fans-say-stadium-staff-BARELY-checking-new-compulsory-vaccine-status-codes.html

As previous events when they were introduced, absolutely a waste of time.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-data-shows-mass-events-can-take-place-safely-but-fans-urged-to-remain-cautious-in-crowds-and-get-vaccinated

Quoted from RobDef1

That's fair enough, sounds easy right? Because LFT's are always available and this government aren't famous for moving the goalposts are they?

Vaccine passports don't even work, look at France, they haven't worked, now they're moving the goalposts on them. Who is being difficult?

Maybe the Covid passports are the Governments subtle way of getting more people to have the vaccine rather than making it compulsory.

Quoted from Squinter

Maybe the Covid passports are the Governments subtle way of getting more people to have the vaccine rather than making it compulsory.

Penny drops..................

Scientists have eradicated many lethal illnesses with vaccines. I would imagine many people on here have had MMR as kids and a very small percentage of those vaccines caused side effects in a very small group of infants, which led to all sorts of scare stories and lower uptake of those vaccines. Of course, the consequences of the lower uptake caused way more harm than the very few cases that happened because of the vaccine.

The list of other lethal illnesses that have been eradicated due to science and vaccines is a very long one and the list is growing all the time.

Flu jabs are now commonplace, as is the HPV jab. Aids was a death sentence in the 80's and 90's but again, scientists came up with an answer to give people hope and many more years of life. Smallpox has been totally wiped out.

My point is that vaccines are a part of life, yet for some reason, lots of people seem to be getting a bee in their bonnet about this one. Yes, it was rushed through and fast tracked but the scientific understanding of diseases like covid helped in that regard, and for me science has improved lives and standards for most of the Western world far more than it has had a negative effect.

Did I need to take the vaccine? Will it have long term detrimental effects I'm yet to discover? I don't know the answers to these questions but I tend to believe learned scientists who tell me that it is in my best interests and the interests of the nation as a whole.

There seems to be loads of conspiracy theories involving Government plots, big pharma, vested interests, 4G, nano chip technology and frigging aliens.  

Get the jab, don't get the jab. Be at peace with your decision and see what transpires in the fullness of time. My money is on the science and I'm well aware that you can find any data which backs up your own particular side of the argument. I know which one I believe.

I shall be far from the madding crowds over Christmas and the New Year.

Quoted from RobDef1

Ok so with an understanding of Bipolar, you'll hopefully understand that my life depends on the medication, simple as that. So with that in mind, do you understand why I would rather steer clear of a vaccination that could cause me to have to drop that medication? Especially when that vaccine is for a virus that I've already had without complications and is unlikely to cause me any complications in the future?

I hope that makes it a bit clearer, it is certainly a clear and agreeable choice where my mental health team (medical professionals) are concerned.

Now why should I live a substandard life because I chose not to have said vaccine?

Completely get that mate. Keep safe and well.

Quoted from RobDef1

And this is my personal case, but not very far fetched. The vaccine is a genuine risk (fatal risk, in the case of 1645 people and their families) to many people for many reasons, reasons that are none of our business. Forcing them upon anybody is wrong.

Don't be so ridiculous. The harms reported in the vast majority of the Yellow Card reports are absolutely nothing to do with the vaccination. To my knowledge, the risk of heart problems with the mRNA vaccines haven't led to any reported deaths at all, around the world. The Adenovirus vaccines (AZ and the J&J which isn't used in the UK), can cause a clotting issue on very rare occasions, but a lot less than 100 people have died in the UK from millions of doses given:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/freedom-of-information-responses-from-the-mhra-week-commencing-1-june-2021/freedom-of-information-request-on-incidents-of-vitt-following-second-dose-of-astrazenecas-covid-19-vaccine-foi-21-496

Incidentally, it seems you are certain that Omicron is milder than Delta or earlier variants. It's an interesting view, but there is no data to show this is true one way or the other yet. The problem is that, even if it is milder than the earlier variants it is so, so infectious that it is likely that it will find its way into enough vulnerable people to be very dangerous, especially if they all become infected in a very short period. Over 80,000 people died in the big Alpha wave which lasted 4 or 5 months and it seems that one or two modellers think there are likely to be perhaps third to a half of that number for Omicron, albeit compressed into a shorter period. Let's hope they are right, though 30,000+ deaths aren't anything to be happy about.

As for footy, with the case rates we're going to be seeing over the next month or two, I simply can't see how the football season can continue without a break. Loads of the players, officials and pretty much anybody involved in the running of a game will be infected or isolating over the next month or two so I suspect we'll see play suspended, perhaps after Boxing Day, until a future date. Probably during February or March. A bit more leeway this season as the World Cup isn't going to be played until November/December so there wouldn't be the rush to get all the fixtures played if it was a summer competition. It wouldn't be difficult to rejig the season a bit more so that it didn't start until September and then continued to June 2023.

Incidentally, first time I've heard of a contraindication to use of an mRNA vaccine that is heart-related, especially as the risks of heart complications are much higher from infection. I'm assuming that the case is the same with Omicron as the earlier variants.

The Novavax vaccine should be authorised before too long. Shouldn't be even the same small risk of a heart problem with that particular type of vaccine, I'd have thought.

Quoted from Maringer

Incidentally, first time I've heard of a contraindication to use of an mRNA vaccine that is heart-related, especially as the risks of heart complications are much higher from infection. I'm assuming that the case is the same with Omicron as the earlier variants.

The Novavax vaccine should be authorised before too long. Shouldn't be even the same small risk of a heart problem with that particular type of vaccine, I'd have thought.

You Sir, are an absolute idiot, I feel embarrassed to support the same club as you. Are you a member of Sage?

My mates an arsenal fan he didn't get asked for anything last night at the emirates , he reckons they randomly checked 1-1000 , not possible to check everybody , i still think it's a crap idea from a poor pm

I always thought vaccines were supposed to be an answer to medical problems, not as a way to be be allowed to go to the pub or a football match ?

Quoted from fishcake63

My mates an arsenal fan he didn't get asked for anything last night at the emirates , he reckons they randomly checked 1-1000 , not possible to check everybody , i still think it's a crap idea from a poor pm

This was the case at Leeds festival, well certainly was for me. Understandably, their focus was on illicit substances and dangerous prohibited items.

Yesterday when the Precinct was fairly quiet I waited while the wife went into Next and during a 10 minute period I counted 13 people who were not wearing a mask. The majority of these were 20 something year old males who i am pretty sure weren't exempt. Grow up you selfish bstards and think of other people before you kill someone. I don't suppose you care at the moment but when it happens to you I hope you'll be squealing like a baby.

Quoted from golfer

Yesterday when the Precinct was fairly quiet I waited while the wife went into Next and during a 10 minute period I counted 13 people who were not wearing a mask. The majority of these were 20 something year old males who i am pretty sure weren't exempt. Grow up you selfish bstards and think of other people before you kill someone. I don't suppose you care at the moment but when it happens to you I hope you'll be squealing like a baby.

What’s your view on folk who wear those cloth, ‘fashion’ type masks which barely get washed and have been shown to see free little protection? Genuine question….

For me, if you’re going to wear one then surely a medical 🏥 me or one use is better than some cloth affair…

Anything is better than nothing

Quoted from golfer

Yesterday when the Precinct was fairly quiet I waited while the wife went into Next and during a 10 minute period I counted 13 people who were not wearing a mask. The majority of these were 20 something year old males who i am pretty sure weren't exempt. Grow up you selfish bstards and think of other people before you kill someone. I don't suppose you care at the moment but when it happens to you I hope you'll be squealing like a baby.

Kill someone 😂

Quoted from golfer

Yesterday when the Precinct was fairly quiet I waited while the wife went into Next and during a 10 minute period I counted 13 people who were not wearing a mask. The majority of these were 20 something year old males who i am pretty sure weren't exempt. Grow up you selfish bstards and think of other people before you kill someone. I don't suppose you care at the moment but when it happens to you I hope you'll be squealing like a baby.

i was in town yesterday, im a 20 year old something male, but i wear mine

i agree with you in that i was staggered how many people were not wearing one

Quoted from Dave Gilberts Left Peg

You Sir, are an absolute idiot, I feel embarrassed to support the same club as you. Are you a member of Sage?

Nope, but I have a scientific background, can read and comprehend. If you'd like to offer a different opinion to me, you should try it. Who knows, you might even learn something?

Trolling aside, I did some shopping in Aldi last night (Cleethorpe Road). 90% of the men in there weren't wearing a mask. Probably approximately half of the women. I think perhaps 1 member of staff was wearing in a mask - round his chin.

Given that Omicron is apparently still at relatively low levels around here, people aren't going to know what hits them over the next week or two.

Quoted from Maringer

Nope, but I have a scientific background, can read and comprehend. If you'd like to offer a different opinion to me, you should try it. Who knows, you might even learn something?

Trolling aside, I did some shopping in Aldi last night (Cleethorpe Road). 90% of the men in there weren't wearing a mask. Probably approximately half of the women. I think perhaps 1 member of staff was wearing in a mask - round his chin.

Given that Omicron is apparently still at relatively low levels around here, people aren't going to know what hits them over the next week or two.

I was in there last night, wearing my mask, but I was nicking stuff.

Seriously though, we went to Lidl and the shelves were almost bare. Again, couldn't get any basics at all because of fookers panic buying. We then went to Aldi and got some stuff but not everything we needed and it just reminded me how selfish people can be. Not a lot of mask wearing either.

You might have seen me in Aldi - I was the guy with 2 trollies full of toilet paper!  ;)

Quoted from rancido

I know the choices and risks bipolar causes because of my daughter and she decided the vaccine was still her best option.

I'm sorry but your daughter having bipolar disorder does not in any way give you an understanding of my condition, my medication, and my situation. What an incredible over sight.

Quoted from Maringer

Don't be so ridiculous. The harms reported in the vast majority of the Yellow Card reports are absolutely nothing to do with the vaccination. To my knowledge, the risk of heart problems with the mRNA vaccines haven't led to any reported deaths at all, around the world. The Adenovirus vaccines (AZ and the J&J which isn't used in the UK), can cause a clotting issue on very rare occasions, but a lot less than 100 people have died in the UK from millions of doses given:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/freedom-of-information-responses-from-the-mhra-week-commencing-1-june-2021/freedom-of-information-request-on-incidents-of-vitt-following-second-dose-of-astrazenecas-covid-19-vaccine-foi-21-496

Incidentally, it seems you are certain that Omicron is milder than Delta or earlier variants. It's an interesting view, but there is no data to show this is true one way or the other yet. The problem is that, even if it is milder than the earlier variants it is so, so infectious that it is likely that it will find its way into enough vulnerable people to be very dangerous, especially if they all become infected in a very short period. Over 80,000 people died in the big Alpha wave which lasted 4 or 5 months and it seems that one or two modellers think there are likely to be perhaps third to a half of that number for Omicron, albeit compressed into a shorter period. Let's hope they are right, though 30,000+ deaths aren't anything to be happy about.

As for footy, with the case rates we're going to be seeing over the next month or two, I simply can't see how the football season can continue without a break. Loads of the players, officials and pretty much anybody involved in the running of a game will be infected or isolating over the next month or two so I suspect we'll see play suspended, perhaps after Boxing Day, until a future date. Probably during February or March. A bit more leeway this season as the World Cup isn't going to be played until November/December so there wouldn't be the rush to get all the fixtures played if it was a summer competition. It wouldn't be difficult to rejig the season a bit more so that it didn't start until September and then continued to June 2023.

So despite the risks to my medication, my mental health, the wellbeing of my family, the government stats on the vaccine, and the acceptance of circumstance by my mental health team (again, medical professionals), you can conveniently ignore that and draw a conclusion that everybody should be vaccinated regardless, because you have a 'scientific background'? And I'm being ridiculous?

Quoted from golfer

Yesterday when the Precinct was fairly quiet I waited while the wife went into Next and during a 10 minute period I counted 13 people who were not wearing a mask. The majority of these were 20 something year old males who i am pretty sure weren't exempt. Grow up you selfish bstards and think of other people before you kill someone. I don't suppose you care at the moment but when it happens to you I hope you'll be squealing like a baby.

I’m not entirely surprised given the government have completely lost all support of the British Public, they’re tired of the lies, the doomsday message being pumped out by our media and people like Professor Neil Ferguson so regularly getting the figures spectacularly wrong.

It’ll affect the booster numbers and the mask wearing and I can’t see them every clawing back public support ever again.

Quoted from Maringer

Given that Omicron is apparently still at relatively low levels around here, people aren't going to know what hits them over the next week or two.

Sounds like Armageddon! South Africa must of been obliterated by now I will just check 🤔

Saw a fella from the 'hospitality industry' today talking about the requirement to show a Covid passport or a negative lateral flow test result and how some folk had actually turned up at a club with the actual LFT thingy itself rather than a text or email certifying a negative result.

Surely it's possible to send an email stating you have tested negative (providing you quote the long test number on a test device) when either you have actually tested positive or when you haven't even taken a test at all thus receiving the necessary to get you into clubs etc

In another Omicron update Hull mothers are being advised not to have more than three of their children's dads in the house at any one time.

Quoted from GYinScuntland

In another Omicron update Hull mothers are being advised not to have more than three of their children's dads in the house at any one time.

I know I shouldn't laugh, but I did...........

Quoted from RobDef1

So despite the risks to my medication, my mental health, the wellbeing of my family, the government stats on the vaccine, and the acceptance of circumstance by my mental health team (again, medical professionals), you can conveniently ignore that and draw a conclusion that everybody should be vaccinated regardless, because you have a 'scientific background'? And I'm being ridiculous?

You are being ridiculous in thinking that more than 1,600 people have died due to the vaccines. This comes from completely misunderstanding what the Yellow Card system actually is there for and what the numbers represent. Something which the anti-vaxxers out there manipulate to achieve their aims and cause great harm by doing so.

If your medical advisors are happy for you to skip vaccination and that's your choice, then fair enough. I just wanted to correct you because your post was simple disinformation about the risks of vaccination.

The fact is that, even for those who aren't particularly vulnerable to serious disease, the risks of harm are much, much greater from infection (which is now inevitable with Omicron), than from any of the vaccines in use.

That's the point that needs to be drummed in because there is so much disinformation out there thanks to social media bullshit.

Quoted from Humbercod

Kill someone 😂

I mean...yeah...there has been *quite a few* COVID related deaths over the last few years, in case you weren't aware..

Quoted from RobDef1

I'm sorry but your daughter having bipolar disorder does not in any way give you an understanding of my condition, my medication, and my situation. What an incredible over sight.

Is yours a different kind of bipolar? Do you know what medication my daughter is on? If we both had a cold or flu would I have no understanding of what you were going through based on my symptoms?

Quoted from rancido

Is yours a different kind of bipolar? Do you know what medication my daughter is on? If we both had a cold or flu would I have no understanding of what you were going through based on my symptoms?

There are different kinds of bipolar yes, are you not aware of that in your infinite wisdom? No I don't know what medication your daughter is or isn't on, so thanks for making my point. Similarly, my dad has even less of an understanding of your daughters condition. Do you have black friends that prove you aren't racist too?

Quoted from RobDef1

There are different kinds of bipolar yes, are you not aware of that in your infinite wisdom? No I don't know what medication your daughter is or isn't on, so thanks for making my point. Similarly, my dad has even less of an understanding of your daughters condition. Do you have black friends that prove you aren't racist too?

Oh dear, why drag racism into this debate?

Quoted from sam gy

I mean...yeah...there has been *quite a few* COVID related deaths over the last few years, in case you weren't aware..

Sorry but if you’re double jabbed, then had the booster, can’t go outside without a scruffy rag over your face, yet you’re still worrying about being killed in Freshney place by someone not wearing a mask, then shopping in Freshney place is probably not the place for you.

The fear pumped into people is absolutely heartbreaking at times.

Quoted from Humbercod

Sorry but if you’re double jabbed, then had the booster, can’t go outside without a scruffy rag over your face, yet you’re still worrying about being killed in Freshney place by someone not wearing a mask, then shopping in Freshney place is probably not the place for you.

The fear pumped into people is absolutely heartbreaking at times.

Congratulations Sir,
Comment of the day, Maringer will not be happy

I only see Humbercod's posts when somebody quotes them as he's the only person on my block list.

Still posting utter gibberish, I see, so at least that's one thing that hasn't changed regarding the ongoing pandemic in recent months.

Quoted from RobDef1

I've explained my reasoning and as of yet have only had that challenged by yourself, with insults. At whatever your age is you really should be able to understand  how to have a discussion with someone in a respectful manner.

I will continue to follow restrictions, I will continue to distance from people where necessary, I just don't feel like the vaccination is necessary for someone with zero underlying physical health conditions.. and believe me (or don't) I'm really trying to keep anecdotal argument out of this as I have no way of proving to you on a forum of the many other reasons I have seen for not having the rushed, money spinning 'vaccine'.

More to the point, I won't be judging you or anyone else on their decision to have the vaccine, no matter what my opinion is.

Very poor “reasoning”.

If you’d bothered to read any of the material available on why they were able to produce an effective vaccine quicker than normal, you might understand. If you have looked at that material but don’t accept it, then tell us why. If you don’t understand it then ….,,

Quoted from RobDef1

Or mutates to a variant that is less deadly and less dangerous, as seen with omicron. The thing about trawling data, is that it stacks up a lot better against emotive posts like yours that are full of speculation and fear mongering, yet lacking in data. Strange that.

And my point isn't against 'using' a vaccine. My point is firmly against 'forcing' a vaccine on people who want to live normally and freely. As said many many times on this thread, the vaccine seems effective for those at risk in reducing their symptoms and giving them a fighting chance against covid. However, as a relatively healthy 29 year old at extremely low risk of dying of covid the vaccine is not only pretty pointless it becomes foolish when it has its own string of risks attached to it, as shown in the data above.

Millions of people choose to have the flu jab every year, brilliant, all for it. But millions of people also choose not to, they aren't then forced to live a substandard life because of that choice nor are they asked to explain themselves against a mounting face of prejudice and intolerance.

What you don’t seem to understand is that it’s a numbers game. Bigger than previous numbers of infected, growing at a faster rate, even if less deadly (ignoring the fact the vaccine acted are less likely to be seriously affected if infected) means more I’ll and seriously ill people.

Quoted from RobDef1

Except I'm not saying 'stuff the rest' am I? I'm saying if you're at risk, either by means of data or personal opinion, then get the vaccine, it can protect you. But don't force it upon me when it can put me at risk.

Do you want to buy these magic beans?

Quoted from Dave Gilberts Left Peg

You Sir, are an absolute idiot, I feel embarrassed to support the same club as you. Are you a member of Sage?

Oh the irony.

And for your benefit I’m not talking about putting creases in your trousers.

If Omicron is one quarter as dangerous as Delta in terms of serious illness (which would be a massive bonus), with a doubling rate of just 2 to 3 days, that's less than a week of spread before you surpass the number of cases which will require hospitalisation. Delta gradually became dominant over the course of a few months. Omicron is so infectious, it is going to become dominant over the course of a few weeks. And they will be coming in a short period so the healthcare system will be completely swamped with large numbers of staff absent through illness.

It's depressing thinking about it all, truth be told.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

What you don’t seem to understand is that it’s a numbers game. Bigger than previous numbers of infected, growing at a faster rate, even if less deadly (ignoring the fact the vaccine acted are less likely to be seriously affected if infected) means more I’ll and seriously ill people.

Not to fundamentally disagree with your point, because I’m not disputing that Omicron poses a threat, I do think it’s important to be balanced on the scale of what’s ahead.

Early data out of South Africa suggests that both the rate of serious illness and lethality is meaningfully lower than previous variants, and now even Chris Whitty is chiming in with quotes which loosely amount to optimism:

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraph.co.uk%2Fnews%2F2021%2F12%2F16%2Fbritain-may-better-omicron-delta-says-chris-whitty%2F

I realise there’s a fine line to tread between instilling complacency and embedding fear into the nation (with the disastrous economic effects that has), but if you sift a little deeper than the main headlines there are plenty of emerging signs that we are not confronting armegoddon here.

We’ll know a lot more literally in days, but I think it’s important to note that the party line delivered at press conferences is strategically leaned towards a pessimistic outcome. The reality, I honestly believe, will be a lot, lot better than the worst case scenario. Still tough by the way, but not as rough as we’ve seen previously, and maybe, just maybe, it might leave us with an exit plan.

I think some posters will be seriously disappointed when their predictions of omnicrom doom don’t come true .

Quoted from louth_in_the_south

I think some posters will be seriously disappointed when their predictions of omnicrom doom don’t come true .

Omicron.

What an unpleasant thing to say. Actually, it's not unpleasant. It's cretinous.

I'll be delighted if things don't get as bad as seems likely. Let's hope all the scientists and public health bodies are terribly wrong, though the odds are against it.

Quoted from Maringer

Omicron.

What an unpleasant thing to say. Actually, it's not unpleasant. It's cretinous.

I'll be delighted if things don't get as bad as seems likely. Let's hope all the scientists and public health bodies are terribly wrong, though the odds are against it.

Sorry Omicron , aka The Sniffles .

Some right wallies on here - obviously the education system has been in decline well before Covid where common sense was not a subject instilled into pupils

Quoted from golfer

Some right wallies on here - obviously the education system has been in decline well before Covid where common sense was not a subject instilled into pupils

Probably around the time when funding was cut but Gove sent a bible to every school and said teaching the dates of kings and queens was more appropriate…

Quoted from louth_in_the_south

Sorry Omicron , aka The Sniffles .

Yep, cretinous. Remember what you posted there as things unfold over the next couple of months.

Quoted from Maringer

Yep, cretinous. Remember what you posted there as things unfold over the next couple of months.

Whilst what he said is clearly tongue in cheek, to some extent it’s merely an opinion. You come down on the pessimistic side if things, others are optimists and some are cynics. Doesn’t make anyone more or less right…

Didn’t this become a non football thread about 15 pages earlier?

Quoted from HerveJosse

Didn’t this become a non football thread about 15 pages earlier?

This is about football? balderdash…didn’t realise…

I guess to turn it back to football, it’s a daft idea, it doesn’t protect anyone nor does it risk anyone, the end.

Clubs are already finding ways to circumvent the rules…